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Poll

Should registration and craftsman exams be held by the training institutes or the PGDB?

Training institutes
22 (46.8%)
PGDB
14 (29.8%)
Only Craftman exams by the PGDB
2 (4.3%)
Craftsman status should not exist.
9 (19.1%)

Total Members Voted: 47

Author Topic: Have a say. The PGDB needs to know!  (Read 25072 times)

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Offline Plumber

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Have a say. The PGDB needs to know!
« on: September 28, 2009, 10:29:31 PM »
You can now have a say. The PGDB needs to know!

Should registration and craftsman exams be held by the training institutes or the PGDB?



Linkback: https://www.plumbers.nz/pgdb-new-zealand-plumbing-gasfitting-and-drainlaying-board/30/have-a-say-the-pgdb-needs-to-know/297/
Please note that the advice I am giving is only my opinion and not necessarily a fact.  Please refer to our terms and conditions.

Offline Jaxcat

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Re: Have a say. The PGDB needs to know!
« Reply #1 on: September 30, 2009, 12:56:03 PM »
While not being a "fan" of some of the behaviour of the PGDB - I am not happy with the level of assessment at our country's polytechnics.  If the examinations are "controlled" by our polytechs only then we run a real risk of seeing the system dumbed down even more.  The problem with the registration exams is not that the pass rate is so low - it is the disparity between what is being taught through distance learning and at block course under the ITO's direction - and then what is being assessed in the examination by the PGDB.  For the qualification to have any merit there must be some independence.  There would be none if the polytechs were solely left in charge.  They would hardly want to fail people when their funding and future contracts for delivery would be measured by the number of plumbers and gasfitters coming out at the other end.

I favour a much more graduated approach - back to the Qual 1, 2 and 3 scenario.  The apprentice attends block courses and sits an examination at the end of each package of learning - if he passes he goes on to the next level - if he doesn't he repeats it till he does know it and is competent to move through the system.  This will have the benefit of slapping down smart arse apprentices who think they know everything and are worth a million bucks to your business - and show them exactly what they do and don't know.  It examines a "set" piece of learning and does so while it is reasonably fresh in everyone's mind and also it will stop those who are not competent at any level from progressing.

At the end of their apprenticeship they should have passed all qualifications and simply be able to apply for registration.  I would imagine the PGDB would have input into the setting of these examinations.

T
Have you learned lessons only of those who admired you, and were tender with you, and stood aside for you?  Have you not learned great lessons from those who braced themselves against you, and disputed the passage with you?  (Walt Whitman 1819-1891)  American Poet

Offline Jaxcat

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Re: Have a say. The PGDB needs to know!
« Reply #2 on: September 30, 2009, 12:59:46 PM »
And just to finish - the rougues in all of this are the ITO - they have accepted substandard delivery of our qualifications from the polytechs.  I invite any of you to ask for the moderation reports from your local polytec for the delivery of plumbing and gasfitting (you will probably need to do this under the Official Information Act - as the polytecs don't want to hand it over willingly).  You will find the performance of polytecs has been poor (perhaps poorer than the passrates of our apprentices in registration - yet the ITO has continued to hand over contracts for delivery to these institutions.

More plumbers and gasfitters need to put themselves forward for advisory groups at polytecs - particularly if you have apprentices - so you know what is going on at these institutions and speak up if you are not getting your monies worth.  That and let the ITO know when you aren't happy.  Ask you apprentices when they come back from block course some basic questions:
Did you have a tutor in front of you the whole time?
Where you there everyday?
What was the quality of assessment like?
Was there sufficient materials for you to complete your assessments?
Did you get any self directed learning?

Offline jd24hrs

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Re: Have a say. The PGDB needs to know!
« Reply #3 on: October 02, 2009, 10:29:26 PM »
pgdb should have no say in training of plumbers or gas fitters/engineers

Offline trebor

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Re: Have a say. The PGDB needs to know!
« Reply #4 on: November 11, 2009, 07:34:12 PM »
I agree with jaxcat, a graduated system would be much better while things are still fresh in your head. It would get rid of people in the industry who aren't willing to put the effort in to learn how to do things properly.

Offline robbo

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Re: Have a say. The PGDB needs to know!
« Reply #5 on: November 13, 2009, 10:08:17 PM »
hi, i think you should add one more option to the poll, Should Craftsman status exist?

Offline Plumber

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Re: Have a say. The PGDB needs to know!
« Reply #6 on: November 13, 2009, 10:21:30 PM »
Good point  ;)

Offline kiwichris

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Re: Have a say. The PGDB needs to know!
« Reply #7 on: November 19, 2009, 01:45:12 AM »
Hey JD

I know where you are coming from - but

You have to think outside the box of Being UK CORGI registered.

I am a registered gas fitter in 3 countries - UK, OZ & NZ.
And they all have there different ways - and we just have to accept the fact.

What the problem is - lies with the PGDB. They have no organisation or reality of how plumbing and gasfitting work.

It needs restructuring in a big way. And it has to be focused more on having guys in a class room and teaching them the regulations, standards and the way things are done.

It CAN NOT be based ENTIRELY on a 3 hour exam.

It must be hands on
It must be attendance
It must be book work
There must be help available
There must be authorities HELPING and not putting down/rejecting
There must be going through regs and standards
Things must be put in practice
There has  to be a positive leadership  and not negative test markers
Plumbers need direction and support

THE PGDB should be there helping us - not Failing us
There has to be better background support for the plumbers
Then life will be great for all involved.

It should NOT be a money making venture!
Born to fish - forced to work!

Offline jd24hrs

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Re: Have a say. The PGDB needs to know!
« Reply #8 on: January 13, 2010, 08:46:34 PM »
well done kiwi chris
we dont want poorly trained plumbers and gas fitters and we dont need stupid craftsman who are old earning of our backs like the plumbers board

Offline robbo

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Re: Have a say. The PGDB needs to know!
« Reply #9 on: January 16, 2010, 10:24:54 PM »
hi jd, I don`t quite get your point or why you refer to craftsman as Stupid. Craftsman was a status invented by the pgdb and thrust upon just like other rules and regulations that they see fit to include into our industry, reasons only known to them. The board has been given a free hand by the govt to do whatever they think fit to “Protect the Health and Safety of the Public”, so they do in the name of. If you have read my posts you will know that I am not a fan of the Craftsman status(although I have both plum and gas) I do not think it is fair and should be scraped, I think of it as an exclusive club that benefits a very small portion of our trades people. Did you know? That only Craftsman plumbers can be members of the Master plumbers Association, also Plumbing World will only let Craftsman have shares in their company. So it is not only the board that you should be referring to in your post. Cheers. 

Offline stealth

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Re: Have a say. The PGDB needs to know!
« Reply #10 on: March 02, 2010, 04:21:54 PM »
Bring in a contactors licence makes it simple if you don't have one you cant do plumbing or gas fitting work.  To get this licence you need a trade cert and 2 years trade experience outside an apprenticeship and a business course. Compulsory insurance cover and start up capital of minimum 20 grand in cash or assets....

Offline sharks

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Re: Have a say. The PGDB needs to know!
« Reply #11 on: May 31, 2010, 08:51:48 PM »
Robbo
If we dont have certifying plumbers what do we have , just licensed ?   
What are you suggesting?

Offline robbo

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Re: Have a say. The PGDB needs to know!
« Reply #12 on: June 01, 2010, 10:13:48 AM »
hi sharks, it is my opinion that once a person has served an apprenticeship and passed trade exams,he is then a tradesman. To be registered/Gold Card holder/craftsman/licenced/certifiing should make no difference to his status, these are only titles given by the p.g.d.board to rake in fees for themselves. My focus is the ever rising costs of being a tradesman in our trades and the ever increasing requirements to stay in them. If our trades commanded a massive increase in our wages i would happily agree with them but on present day award rates i don`t think that the life long apprenticeship is affordable. What is your opinion? as a matter of interest i see in the latest notes from the board received yesterday, that they now want to bring in "instant fines" what next? Looks like the Plumbing Police will happen yet. Have a good day,cheers.

Offline richardhandford

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Re: Have a say. The PGDB needs to know!
« Reply #13 on: June 05, 2010, 09:28:16 PM »
Just sat my certifying common today -think I did ok will have to wait and see... I think there are a lot of issues facing the industry, the poll as to whether the PGDB should be in charge of the exams -they seem to do ok but what a lot of New Zealanders forget is that a large percentage of people in the industry are rural, I had to drive 2 1/2 hours on frosty roads to get to my exam venue today and the same back, if someone can improve the standard and have more centres in the rural areas, I'm all for it. The cbl too there are no courses  in rural areas, we have to drive 2 1/2 hours to go to a course from 5pm till 9pm then 2 1/2 hours drive home again for 8 hours pay and 4 points towards your gas registration, how much time and unpaid travel will that be collecting points for 3 licences, not looking forward to next year, hope I pass some exams and get points that way!

Offline richardhandford

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Re: Have a say. The PGDB needs to know!
« Reply #14 on: June 05, 2010, 09:59:25 PM »
Can anyone explain the new brochure the board sent out regarding supervision and testing? The way I understand it is the supervision is becoming more relaxed, testing can be delegated, gas certs can be issued online, why bother even looking at the job just send the invoice -as long as you can sleep at night...till something goes wrong!


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