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Author Topic: THOUGHTS ON APPRENTICE TRAINING  (Read 3942 times)

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Offline Jayp

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THOUGHTS ON APPRENTICE TRAINING
« on: July 05, 2011, 06:58:33 PM »
Hi there, just curious what others opinion is on the following. If your an apprentice within an ito, and most of your apprentiship involves lagging pipes and dyna drilling in ramset knock in's for tradesmen, how are you meant to come out of your time "competent" on the tools?


Linkback: https://www.plumbers.nz/study-base/70/thoughts-on-apprentice-training/717/

Offline integrated

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Re: THOUGHTS ON APPRENTICE TRAINING
« Reply #1 on: July 05, 2011, 07:41:16 PM »
meh, happens all the time and happens everywhere

if said apprentice has good work ethics and shows initiative i'm sure he will get given a decent shot

this isnt ideal but in reality there is not much can be done

generally - on site duties very much reflect ability

there is nothing to stop someone from practising in order to become competent!    ;)

Offline robbo

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Re: THOUGHTS ON APPRENTICE TRAINING
« Reply #2 on: July 05, 2011, 09:12:10 PM »
hi guys, this is part of an article on 3 news,video on the net.
Plumbing industry rejecting polytech graduates
TUE, 05 JUL 2011 6:24P.M.  By Tony Reid
The plumbing industry has launched an attack on student plumbing courses, saying they don't provide the type of apprentices they need. The six or 12 month courses are offered by polytechs and private educators.  Studentís just days away from finishing a one year plumbing course at Unitec in Auckland are hoping to get an apprenticeship, but that's easier said than done.
cheers

Offline Jaxcat

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Re: THOUGHTS ON APPRENTICE TRAINING
« Reply #3 on: July 05, 2011, 10:11:12 PM »
I think first year apprentices should expect to do lagging, - do a good job lagging and then you prove you can be moved to the next task.  I would be concerned if you were doing this sort of thing your whole apprenticeship.  This is a two edged sword - we employe currently five apprentices from "one week's" experience to almost near end of fourth year.  We move the apprentices around between commercial and domestic, trying where we can to leave them on a job from underslab to finishing gear.  You want apprentices to learn the trade properly - however it is a mistake to think that you will know everything by the end of your apprenticeship - that is truly when the real learning begins.  If you feel that you are being hard done by you should make some notes about what you want to achieve and then make an appointment with your employer to discuss it.  If you feel you need assistance then you can ask the ITO and they may well assist you.  Just be sure that you are putting in your best effort to do what you employer is asking, while at the same time putting your hand up for more responsibility.
Have you learned lessons only of those who admired you, and were tender with you, and stood aside for you?  Have you not learned great lessons from those who braced themselves against you, and disputed the passage with you?  (Walt Whitman 1819-1891)  American Poet

Offline roberto

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Re: THOUGHTS ON APPRENTICE TRAINING
« Reply #4 on: September 10, 2011, 12:48:59 PM »
when i started as a apprientice - 7 years ago, i was working unsupervised in a company van after 3 months of starting my apprientiship - not good when i was young and new to the plumbing game, if i done anything wrong i was always told "You should heve known that!!!" I was doing everything from blocked drains to new homes ON MY OWN!!!!, it was kind of as if i had to walk in off the street and know how to become a plumber in 5 mins, i am a licenced plumber now but was never given the correct "on the job training" as a apprientice, and i have always been un-supervised!

Offline robbo

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Re: THOUGHTS ON APPRENTICE TRAINING
« Reply #5 on: September 10, 2011, 04:02:59 PM »
hi guys, still happens today and will never change,cheers

Offline Jaxcat

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Re: THOUGHTS ON APPRENTICE TRAINING
« Reply #6 on: September 10, 2011, 04:39:17 PM »
It has to change Robbo - essentially apprentices being put out on their own after three months are putting themselves at risk of a fine by the PGDB, putting their employer at risk of having a massive claim against his insurance (which may not pay out if negligence is involved) and the supervisor (more than likely the employer) is also at risk of fine and punitive action by the PGDB. 

We cannot expect apprentices to be trained "over the phone" - if you take on an apprentice then you take on a responsibility - if you can't give him on the job training, then don't put your hand up.  The ITO need to police this more - once upon a time when you got an apprentice you had to jump through hoops to show that you were a fit and proper employer - and those who had Mr Tolra interview them will know exactly what I mean.   

It's not fair on the public or the trade to have wet behind the ears kids out in vans attached to a cell phone trying to learn the trade from a distance in their first year.  It doesn't enhance anyones reputation, and it's just salt in the wound if these kids are also on a low "training wage" while not being properly trained.

Offline spud

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Re: THOUGHTS ON APPRENTICE TRAINING
« Reply #7 on: September 10, 2011, 07:00:53 PM »
I remember Alan tolra. What a complete farkun prick he was.

Offline robbo

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Re: THOUGHTS ON APPRENTICE TRAINING
« Reply #8 on: September 11, 2011, 08:42:12 AM »
hi guys/jax, completely agree but all the laws of the land never stopped crime!!!cheers

Offline Jayp

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Re: THOUGHTS ON APPRENTICE TRAINING
« Reply #9 on: September 18, 2011, 07:54:33 PM »
I agree with jaxcat on this one, it makes no sense. To actually get an apprenticeship these days is pretty tough, sort after. I think it comes down to a few basic things. First, tradesmen forget that they were apprentices once. And to actually have the patience to train someone properly takes time. Time is money......so there goes the patience. So its almost like you are expected to "just know" somehow. Secondly if your only digging ditches and then get thrown around to a new house, chances are your not going to know alot. But you should, somehow magically.
And taking on an apprentice should be about future proofing the industry, so we can have competent tradespeople trained right. Not a demoralizing lottery. That's in the past.
But like robbo says, I doubt it will change.


Offline Jaxcat

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Re: THOUGHTS ON APPRENTICE TRAINING
« Reply #10 on: September 18, 2011, 08:43:01 PM »
That's depressing!  I have to say that colleagues I know in the industry actually really care about their apprentices - and see them as the future of the industry and the potential purchasers of their businesses.  Seems pretty short sighted to do what you guys are suggesting is rife in industry.  Are these isolated incidents or is this rife?

Offline Jayp

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Re: THOUGHTS ON APPRENTICE TRAINING
« Reply #11 on: September 19, 2011, 09:07:41 PM »
I cant really say if its like this everywhere, but I can say it was the norm when I was doing my time. Which was disappointing as you can imagine you kind of lose enthusiasm after a few years. But im sure there would be some company's out there that actually value apprentices, and see them as assets like you say.
I didnt get that vibe, but ive talked to some in the same year as I was and they seemed to struck it lucky with that sort of thing!



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