Plumbers NZ is New Zealand's largest online plumbing, gas and drainage resource. Plumbing exam help, plumbing news, directory and free quotes.

Author Topic: The PGD ITO  (Read 8389 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Jaxcat

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1008
  • Karma: +40/-4
The PGD ITO
« on: May 19, 2011, 05:40:37 PM »
Do you have any apprentices doing the new version of the apprenticeship?  Are you happy with how it is going?  Is the communication from the ITO up to your expectations?  I have a few apprentices - with some in transition, one finishing the old version later this year and one in the new version.  I am disappointed at the communication from the ITO with regards to block courses and content.  I am getting more information from my apprentice than I am from the ITO office.  I think it is time we considered whether the ITO actually add any value to apprenticeships.  Could we contract direct to the polytechnics for apprentice training?  Would this save the apprentice, the employer and the tax payer some money - bloody oath it would.  Many polytechs have the paperwork there (their own on the ITO's stuff) and could probably work out a deal with an employer that would provide a win/win situation.  There would just need to be sufficient numbers to run a course - probably around half a dozen to start with. 

Is everyone out there (whether an employer or apprentice) happy with what they are being told.?  Is it value for money?  Do the ITO assist you or do they frustrate you?  Does the distance learning really deliver - would you prefer night classes? 

To date the PGDB have been the focus of many of our complaints, but to be honest I'm not that thrilled with the service I'm getting from the ITO and if there was an alternative I'd seriously consider it.  Taking on an apprentice is a big committment and we want to do our best by them and for them - but to do that the whole team needs to be on board - not how I see it is at the moment where the ITO are often the stumbling block rather than the step up. 



Linkback: https://www.plumbers.nz/polytechs-and-unitecs/82/the-pgd-ito/648/
Have you learned lessons only of those who admired you, and were tender with you, and stood aside for you?  Have you not learned great lessons from those who braced themselves against you, and disputed the passage with you?  (Walt Whitman 1819-1891)  American Poet

Offline robbo

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1259
  • Karma: +83/-7
Re: The PGD ITO
« Reply #1 on: May 19, 2011, 06:44:23 PM »
hi guys/jax, perhaps the master plumbers would like to take that over as well as everything else, have you run it past them? i am sure they would be interested,cheers

Offline hefzibah

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 19
  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: The PGD ITO
« Reply #2 on: May 19, 2011, 07:53:39 PM »
Jaxcat... you don't have to go through the PGDR ITO courses, you are allowed to go through ITP (independent training providers),Unitec and MIT are examples. If you have apprentices, you can enrol them wherever you like. Probably get better value for money in the long run as well, if apprentices are trained at an ITP.

Offline jd24hrs

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 128
  • Karma: +3/-0
Re: The PGD ITO
« Reply #3 on: May 20, 2011, 06:20:52 AM »
I like the idea of no kick backs to master plumbers anyway a apprentice should supervised at all time and go to college 1 or 2days a week like I did all though years ago when training ment you learnt a trade properly not like so many craftsman here who send there trainees out in s van unsupervised I know this because this happens all over Nz  and it is not good for real plumbers jd

Offline Jaxcat

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1008
  • Karma: +40/-4
Re: The PGD ITO
« Reply #4 on: May 20, 2011, 09:08:35 AM »
Thanks guys - I have always gone through the ITO but I like the idea of ITP's.  Not interested in the Masterlink or ATT version as we already have payroll etc set up and don't want to pay the additional costs when we can manage the HR side in house.  We have trained many apprentices over the years - but the cost of $8800 is prohibitive and if I can save them and myself some money I'm keen on that as long as it doesn't compromise the training quality.

JD - I really do think you need to step back and have a look at NZ practitioners with some fresh eyes.  You constantly belittle the NZ tradesperson.  I have several staff who have been to the UK to work and they are appalled by the quality of work done there.  They are always snapped up by UK companies as soon as they know they have done a four year apprenticeship here.  I believe that NZ tradespeope are some of the best in the world and that our training system, while not perfect, is still very good.  There are cowboys in any profession and ours is no different, however the constant slights about the NZ plumber or gasfitter are not going to win you any support for your cause to have your qualifications recognised in NZ by the PGDB.

Offline jd24hrs

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 128
  • Karma: +3/-0
Re: The PGD ITO
« Reply #5 on: May 20, 2011, 06:10:05 PM »
Hi jax
I have to say I'm not picking on Nz plumbers but the system you have to work with if you can get away with sending a in qualified personout to make you money as a plumber this is why it happens in Nz 
On the the quality of the plumbing in the uk I'm sorry but you will find good and bad everywhere but the standard in Nz is not as good as people like to talk it up there is good and there is very bad
Kiwis tell every body how how good they are and how they are world famous in newzealand it bread into them and it is a great trait I wish we all were like it
And  you know your system is lacking and the system still won't recognise good plumbers who have proved themselves to so you can't be surprised I won't believe

Offline Jaxcat

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1008
  • Karma: +40/-4
Re: The PGD ITO
« Reply #6 on: May 20, 2011, 06:30:56 PM »
JD - I do agree with some of what you say - but an unqualified plumber is not that - he is a member of the public.  We need to stop giving unqualified people the name plumber - they are not.  The news media also call members of the public this - anyone who is unlicensed is working illegally.  I would never and have never sent an unlicensed person out to do any job, and I don't send new apprentices, or exemption holders out in a van to do jobs for this company because I care too much about my customers and the reputation of this industry.  We have a duty of care to inform the PGDB of anyone working illegally - all they do is cheapen our industry.  Everyone who has a ticket has worked hard to earn it, and works even harder at the moment to keep it.  It costs us dearly in terms of licence fees and upskilling and we cannot compete with those individuals and companies who do not have these expenses.  Not informing the authorities of these people just makes it harder for those of us following the rules of supervision and the laws of the land. 

I will not describe people who have not got a ticket with a practitioners description - it is just wrong to do so and promulgates the feeling amongst the public that there are cowboys in the profession, when they are cowboys members of the public, not cowboys plumbers and gasfitters.


Offline Wal

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 572
  • Karma: +83/-0
Re: The PGD ITO
« Reply #7 on: May 21, 2011, 06:58:01 AM »
Hi everyone.

The issues in the industry keep escalating and all the issues you are discussing are all fixable if people would abide by the law, if the legislation imposed on us was developed and implemented properly and if everyone would do their jobs.

I've said it a number of times and it goes for people in the industry or in the administrative side of the industry ie the Board "Get Legal or get out"  Same for the politicians who believe they are above the law "Get legal or get out".


Offline jd24hrs

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 128
  • Karma: +3/-0
Re: The PGD ITO
« Reply #8 on: May 21, 2011, 10:31:52 AM »
Hi jax
When you say unqualified plumber  I trust you don't mean me as this would show a lack of professional respect of another qualified plumber and gas engineer who was intact given residence of this lovely country because I proved my qualifications and experience it is just that shitty board who want to be disrespectfull of a fellow plumber and gas engineer

Offline Jaxcat

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1008
  • Karma: +40/-4
Re: The PGD ITO
« Reply #9 on: May 22, 2011, 04:20:47 AM »
"I have to say I'm not picking on Nz plumbers but the system you have to work with if you can get away with sending a in qualified personout to make you money as a plumber this is why it happens in Nz" - this is the quote to which I was referring JD.  You stated that people are sending our unqualified people to make money and I said that I won't describe unqualified people as practitioners because they are not.

Unqualified and unlicensd are two different things - but to be blunt, I do not condone unlicensed (but registered) people working in this trade.  Again it is impossible to compete against them in the market as they do not have the same costs - they also put their customers at risk in terms of valid insurance etc should something go wrong.  I also wonder how the public liability component would work on insurance if you did not have your licence. 

I don't agree with the PGDB's interpretation on upskilling, so I work to change it.  But the law is the law and in the end we must respect that.


Offline jd24hrs

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 128
  • Karma: +3/-0
Re: The PGD ITO
« Reply #10 on: May 22, 2011, 06:21:36 AM »
Hi jax
I'm sorry just read that peice and realised I didn't put in the un part I'm dyslexic so often miss out odd bits should have double checked but writing this late when I should be sleeping cheers jd

Offline peasea

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 99
  • Karma: +15/-1
Re: The PGD ITO
« Reply #11 on: May 22, 2011, 09:52:02 PM »
In Reply to jaxcat #9 I have alluded to this insurance question in a previous post ,should it not be a requirement when  someone agrees to supervise another practioner not in their employ , that insurance cover is in place before the board issues the licence ,do insurance companies provide  cover to   supervised people who run their own business ? whos door will they come knocking on if there is a problem ?, my bet is it will be the supervisor
JD do you have a public liability policy ? or forsee any issues in the unlikely event you have a mishap, seeing as you are working without a licence , I guess if you inform your customers it is then their problem , Please dont take this personally I am only interested in seeing what is happening out there

Peasea
 

Offline jd24hrs

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 128
  • Karma: +3/-0
Re: The PGD ITO
« Reply #12 on: May 23, 2011, 06:37:37 AM »
Hi jax and peasea
I always have insurance but in 20years I've never had to make a claim as I've never flooded or has any miss haps I have always believed you only do the work you are happy to do or have been trained to do but the training has to be good and should be run by the manufacturer of the item or goods you sell or believe in as they have a vested interest in you doing it right first time and properly also the boilers I install all get an extra 1 year over and  above the normal warranty which means customers want me to do there work rather than a normal plumber who has not done the training
As the federation I feel we need to try and negotaite a really good rate for our members

Offline Jaxcat

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1008
  • Karma: +40/-4
Re: The PGD ITO
« Reply #13 on: May 23, 2011, 10:46:45 AM »
Hi Peasea
The Master Plumbers do require you to carry a minimum of $1million Public Liability and proof must be shown each year when membership is renewed.  This is simply a requirement of their members only - so no regulatory body requires you to show Public Liability.  $1 million is very little especially if you are doing commercial work - we carry 10 times that.   It is a peace of mind thing for both you and the home owner.  Often not something anyone thinks about till it's too late.  The PGDB couldn't require you to show it at licensing time as it is not covered under the 2006 Act. 

Public Liability does not cover you if you do something you are not trained to do though - it is for consequential damage to things - but it anyone in business would be an idiot not to have any.  It's not too expensive relatively speaking. 


Offline peasea

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 99
  • Karma: +15/-1
Re: The PGD ITO
« Reply #14 on: May 23, 2011, 08:13:08 PM »
Jax / jd   I am a member of MPs, was not aware of the insurance requirement but then again my office lady (ie wife ) takes care of the formal stuff with them , of course we do carry insurance and always have , it is requirement for renewal of the IQP backflow as well with the authorities , Jax what do you mean by" valid insurance " do you mean you may be paying for a policy but it may be invalid if the insurance company find you dont have a full qualification , or are unlicensed, or both .The PGDB say they have a duty to protect the public , seems to me valid  insurance would be a good start.

I will add I have enjoyed and learnt a lot from attending MP courses over the years, in the past it was provided free , I feel they are now trying to make money out of it , as an example I have attended some courses at $100 .00 , there can be 30 people attend it takes 2/3 hours ,one tutor ,venue hireage Ill let you do the maths , to my mind it is way too expensive , this is one reason why there is a backlash to this upskilling . cheers


Share via digg Share via facebook Share via linkedin Share via twitter
 
Share this topic...
In a forum
(BBCode)
In a site/blog
(HTML)