Plumbers NZ is New Zealand's largest online plumbing, gas and drainage resource. Plumbing exam help, plumbing news, directory and free quotes.

Author Topic: apprientices treated like slaves.......  (Read 15195 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Jayp

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 25
  • Karma: +2/-0
Re: apprientices treated like slaves.......
« Reply #15 on: May 21, 2012, 09:50:57 PM »
Great thread here
I'll add my 20cents, may or may not shock some, I didnt change one single ballcock in my apprenticeship. This should give you a clue regarding my training,  A V E R A G E.
I understand that as an apprentice, your green yes, but exploiting it is a shit way to start, if you talk back or are being a twat on site then yes some whipping into shape needs to be handed out, I can understand that, but not riding on the fact for your time. I noted the apprentices in my tech courses that were in a decent training agreement were so far ahead in terms of practicable hands on skills. Whos at fault here, if the employee has a good attitude and keen to learn?

Offline Rosco

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 23
  • Karma: +3/-0
Re: apprientices treated like slaves.......
« Reply #16 on: June 04, 2012, 11:00:05 AM »
I like what Jaxcat had to say. Under Construction (placemakers journal) did an article this month on hiring apprentices, it points out the fairly obvious on what to look for when hiring, although directed at builders it is still relevant for plumbers.

I have worked for a few firms and 10 years ago when I started my apprenticeship I had the most generous boss I ever had by far. I was in a van doing maintenance/ small reno in my 2nd year with a phone, travelling allowance, bonuses, better wage than a rego'd plumber starting rate nowadays and we had in house night school (not paid), beer fridge always stocked, every 3 or 4 weeks we would have reps and trainers come out for demonstation evenings on new and current products and alot of tradesman we could rely on albeit over the phone as Jaxcat said. Yes there was admittedly alot of mistakes and it was hard to learn out there on my own, to a young guy it was great but looking back now I wish I'd had more support on the job, it took me alot longer to build up confidence because of my predicament. So now I view my training as very substandard.

That said, times have changed, from my viewpoint it seems taking on apprentices is riskier than ever, yes they make you money but with companies out there doing large works for zero profit, it doesn't surprise me apprentices are doing very low risk work unsupervised whilst the plumber in charge is hurrying to meet his labour quote.

At the end of the day its swings and roundabouts I suppose, you have to give if you wanna get and if the guy your working for is just a plain asshole then the grass really is greener

Offline robbo

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1259
  • Karma: +83/-7
Re: apprientices treated like slaves.......
« Reply #17 on: August 06, 2013, 11:27:02 AM »
hi guys, another one from Branz`builders mate`in  Placemakers. This will be Minister Joyce singing his praises, politicians cannot see further that their term in office, as long as the stats look good for them while they are there they will bang on about it. Once these new trainees find out and have to bear the costs of being in the trades compared to the amount that they can earn I believe that they will be moving on. Keeping them in the trades is the trick, time will tell, cheers

Huge boost in apprentice numbers The Building and Construction Industry Training Organisation (BCITO) has seen a 22% jump in new building apprenticeships. Auckland has seen a 42% increase in apprenticeship sign-ups, with a 38% increase in Christchurch. It is estimated that over 90% of BCITO apprentices who have signed up since 6 March 2013 are eligible for the government’s Reboot grant of $2,000 towards tools and training costs.

Offline integrated

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 412
  • Karma: +37/-2
Re: apprientices treated like slaves.......
« Reply #18 on: August 06, 2013, 04:31:48 PM »
Does this include plumbing/gas/drainage/roofing though?

Offline Jaxcat

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1008
  • Karma: +40/-4
Re: apprientices treated like slaves.......
« Reply #19 on: August 06, 2013, 08:58:47 PM »
Bet it doesn't - PGDR apprentice numbers have been falling over the recessionary years.  Skills and the ITO bemoan the fact and are constantly encouraging us to train more.  Numbers may have lifted slightly in the last few months and Chch will probably see a lift in numbers, but I would be surprised at the figures quoted - they are an increase from what?  From fallen numbers during the last four years?

Have you learned lessons only of those who admired you, and were tender with you, and stood aside for you?  Have you not learned great lessons from those who braced themselves against you, and disputed the passage with you?  (Walt Whitman 1819-1891)  American Poet

Offline Watchdog

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 214
  • Karma: +27/-1
  • Plumber gasfitter and drainlayer
Re: apprientices treated like slaves.......
« Reply #20 on: August 07, 2013, 06:05:25 AM »
The big problem is these fools let the numbers drop rather than addressing the problems that are causing the reduction in numbers. A bit like the PGD Board who have a reduction of 12% in licensing so rather than addressing the issues causing the reduction they threaten enforcement action.

It all results in lower numbers in the industry and then there will be a panic and the qualifications will be dumbed down and then in a few years we will all get told we need to upskill. Sound familiar?

I say get in behind the Federation and force change.

Offline Jaxcat

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1008
  • Karma: +40/-4
Re: apprientices treated like slaves.......
« Reply #21 on: August 07, 2013, 08:54:57 AM »
With you there Watchdog.  I have several concerns around the apprenticeship system as it exists now -
a)  The watered down apprenticeship system - polytechs "assessing" and not teaching - this was the dumbest move ever by the ITO.  We need our polytechs to teach as well as assess - employers cannot do it all on their own - very few of us cover every aspect of the trade in our everyday work so the polytech becomes the "broad brush stroke"
b)  There is NO vetting of employers before they are given apprentices, so people just are not fit to have an apprentice - you need to be able to demonstrate that you can provide an employment contract, pay regular wages, have systems for health and safety in place
c)  A mentoring system should exist for new employers wanting to take on apprentices by pairing them up with an existing employer of good standing who can help them get their systems up and running
d)  Correspondence or night classes need to be returned - at the present time the apprentice is not "investing" any of their own time in to the apprenticehip - like the present schooling system - it's all become a bit easy and 9 to 5 - with no additional investment
e) Where is the robustness that will prove to our regulator that National Certificate should equal registration?  It doesn't exist.
f)  More employers or potential employers need to show an interest in the new training regime and have some input in to it or else they will get dished up with a few decide.

The incentives for employers to take on apprentices is sadly lacking.  There is no doubt that in their first year they cost you money and time, and hopefully by the 4th year you are recovering this and  have trained a "fit for purpose" employee who does things the way your want your business run.  The Australian model has some attractiveness about it that NZ could adopt.

Offline MikeJason

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 3
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Im new @ Plumbers NZ!
Re: apprientices treated like slaves.......
« Reply #22 on: August 13, 2013, 09:28:26 PM »
Normally it happens in every things. higher officials don't respect their jr. this is a written fate

Share via digg Share via facebook Share via linkedin Share via twitter
Share this topic...
In a forum
In a site/blog