Plumbers NZ is New Zealand's largest online plumbing, gas and drainage resource. Plumbing exam help, plumbing news, directory and free quotes.

Author Topic: CPD COURSES  (Read 4549 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline o2b007

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 77
  • Karma: +6/-0
  • time for change!!
CPD COURSES
« on: April 03, 2013, 09:14:59 AM »
I was just in the process of renewing my licence( I dont actually use it for work but leave it live) to see that Im 4 points short??

Anyway in reviewing the providers for training I am nothing short of shocked at the quality of the course accrediated by the board.
I am a trained hydraulic engineer as well as a certifing plumber gasfitter and drainlayer and am being asked to take courses from people I have made look like complete idiots in open debate (mainly because they are). On top of this I was talking with a member of the master plumbers who had been asked to run a course on drainlaying although he had not done any drainlaying work in 10 years.
Im sorry this whole system is a complete joke and is being exploited for every $. If we cant get trained by people that can actually teach us something then whats the point??? The only reason the Master plumbers back it is because they see it as a new source of revenue if they looked at it for what it is then they would help there fellow plumbers and fight it.(but that would be asking a bit much from them to actually do something for thier trade rather than exploit it.)

Linkback: https://www.plumbers.nz/licensing-and-up-skilling/45/cpd-courses/1409/

Offline Badger

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1981
  • Karma: +222/-151
Re: CPD COURSES
« Reply #1 on: April 03, 2013, 10:53:14 AM »
o2b007, lucky you are out of it all ,mate I totally agree, it is nothing but bollox.

And they wonder why so many are leaving this industry, sad very sad...people think they are paying a lot for a plumber now, wait until the only people let who can be arsed to keep a licence are the cocks making this all happen.
You can't choose who you are.....but you are the sum of your choices.......

Offline wombles

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 203
  • Karma: +13/-0
Re: CPD COURSES
« Reply #2 on: April 03, 2013, 12:59:52 PM »
The Self Directed Leaning that the PGDB will accept is supposedly 1 hours reading = 1 point.  Perhaps someone clever can explain why I can do a 10 point course on line in an hour? Is it worth more points because I paid?? Does anyone at the Board actually sample these courses and see what drivel is available. I am still mystified as to how 20 points worth of first aid courses helps me be a better/safer plumber

Offline robbo

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1259
  • Karma: +83/-7
Re: CPD COURSES
« Reply #3 on: April 03, 2013, 02:18:46 PM »
(I am still mystified as to how 20 points worth of first aid courses helps me be a better/safer plumber)

Hi guys/Womble, health and safety is you’re answer. Just imagine if you were at a consultation that the board was running, a board member had a serious medical problem and collapsed, well you could rush up and administer c.p.r. or something similar and save him, could be worth some points,cheers

Offline robbo

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1259
  • Karma: +83/-7
Re: CPD COURSES
« Reply #4 on: April 03, 2013, 02:32:26 PM »
Hi guys, I f I have acquired my points to be able to work (spent a lot getting them) but for some unforseen problem I cannot afford to buy my licence (credit card maxed out etc) am i still incompetent? Would the board take an i.o.u. how do you see the outcome of this scenario?, cheers 

Offline integrated

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 412
  • Karma: +37/-2
Re: CPD COURSES
« Reply #5 on: April 03, 2013, 09:11:31 PM »
The only reason the Master plumbers back it is because they see it as a new source of revenue if they looked at it for what it is then they would help there fellow plumbers and fight it.(but that would be asking a bit much from them to actually do something for thier trade rather than exploit it.)



not a new source of revenue for them - the majority of it was in place prior to them lobbying govco for it - it is however a revenue stream that they rely heavily on, so much so that if they didnt have it they would be bankrupt

Offline Jaxcat

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1008
  • Karma: +40/-4
Re: CPD COURSES
« Reply #6 on: April 03, 2013, 09:40:55 PM »
Master Plumbers has always done upskilling in house or by inviting other parties to deliver it, however since the CPD scheme introduced by the PGDB they have turned it in to a business stream.  There is nothing wrong with this - their members requested their organisation to do this - and it became a good reason to join the organisation.  I don't think you can have a go at them becaue of this - they have answered a request from members - after all they are a membership based organisation.  No difference to AA members asking the AA Board to organise purchasing cheap maps etc - if you aren't a member you can still buy the maps, but you buy them at a differential price.  I don't think non members should get upskilling at the same price as members - they don't pay the membership fee to join and get this discount.

The problem is that Master Plumbers has lobbied for upskilling to be in the format the Board has agreed to - and this is what makes people aggrieved.  The perception is that board members in common have had some untoward influence - and whether they have or not is up to each person to make up their mind.  Master Plumber members have always agreed to around 20 hours of upskilling per year as part of their membership, but they have influenced industry through political lobbying to make this the norm for everyone.

Again, I don't believe practitioners are objecting to learning new things, but they object to buying points which is effectively what is happening.

I don't think they would be bankrup if they didn't do upskilling, the profit is not that great - in fact in the early years it lost money.  I am sure they want to build it into a good income stream to ease membership costs, but it does not form a huge percentage of their income.
Have you learned lessons only of those who admired you, and were tender with you, and stood aside for you?  Have you not learned great lessons from those who braced themselves against you, and disputed the passage with you?  (Walt Whitman 1819-1891)  American Poet

Offline ConcernedPGD

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 12
  • Karma: +2/-0
Re: CPD COURSES
« Reply #7 on: April 04, 2013, 09:45:40 AM »
I agree Jaxcat, having seen the Master plumbers annual accounts for 2012, upskilling revenue is not as hgh as what people think, the organisation only makes a small profit considering the turnover. to make an uneducated statement around master plumbers would be bankrupt shows that it is impretive that we do our research before commenting!!!

Im a firm believer in upskilling, however i do agree with the comments that the board should be measuring the quality of the courses and also the assessments. as i come from a background of training development in a past life, i am disguted with the way courses are deliveried and assessed!!!!

Offline Jaxcat

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1008
  • Karma: +40/-4
Re: CPD COURSES
« Reply #8 on: April 04, 2013, 01:14:16 PM »
I agree with you too Concerned - the assessment and quality of a lot of the courses is poor - and this is what makes me both frustrated and angry - as these are the courses than can make the difference between being able to licence or not and being judged competent.  It is a joke, and until the Board address this the system as it is will have no credibility. 

Courses on matters necessary to - that is what we want.  The Board should be directing industry towards areas of upskilling that they see deficit in, and they will see this deficit through the disciplinary and audit process - it will naturally fall out of it.  That's not too hard is it, it is a natural "loop" - and yet what do we see - we see suppliers rushing to write courses while "selling" product, we see roadshows where suppliers answer questions instead of practitioners, we see poor courses, often taken by idiots who couldn't give directions to the corner shop when pushed but have to make the decision on whether to award points to practitioners that have a bearing on their livelihood.  I would favour a set venue, with set trainers on set subjects as being what is required for competency based licensing.  As to the rest of it, well we will favour courses that will enhance our business and our staff - and we will arrange these ourselves and fund them appropriately.  We have always done so, and will continue to do so.  The relevance of points to this exercise is nil.

Offline integrated

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 412
  • Karma: +37/-2
Re: CPD COURSES
« Reply #9 on: April 04, 2013, 06:03:44 PM »
i have seen the same accounts re MP, ok they would not be bankrupt in the strictest sense, from memory after taking out income from cpd's expenditure would be greater and would result them having negative cashflow.


Offline Badger

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1981
  • Karma: +222/-151
Re: CPD COURSES
« Reply #10 on: April 04, 2013, 06:35:20 PM »
My biggest problem is that an organisation that profits from CPD, is present on the Board, and it's not just present on the Board that enforces and with hold licenses if CPD isn't done, but is overly represented. All against the best practice recommendations of some pretty cleaver lawyers, aka the NZ Law Commission.

The pointy end of the door stopper if you ask me, it is set up to grow as most/all businesses are, if you look at the graph of profit against time for CPD and profit, it will climb exponentially.....add another 10 years and it will be a fully fledged business, with its own mafia with holding licenses if you don't do your CPD.

You look to history for guidance for fixing mistakes, but you can see the intention if you look to the future. You can't judge a long term plan on what's happening today.

Mark my words the cost will increase for both license and the courses to gain those licenses, licenses that can be taken from you on a whim.

Yeah we're rockin in the free world.........Democracy as long as you agree with us...... :-[

Offline craftsman

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 83
  • Karma: +5/-1
  • Im new @ Plumbers NZ!
Re: CPD COURSES
« Reply #11 on: April 04, 2013, 08:05:25 PM »
Badger i agree with what you say.
i feel all courses should be the same for all nz wide, organized by the board , PAiD for by the board, if they want to sanction it all and be the ones whom give or refuse licenses.
Way back when point gathering was first mooted for gasfitters if i recall correctly, the board were to do this and all were to do the same courses.

Offline Badger

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1981
  • Karma: +222/-151
Re: CPD COURSES
« Reply #12 on: April 04, 2013, 08:44:10 PM »
Craftsman, I love to learn as do most/all of the "real" tradesman I know and have met. Those that think they know it all don't usually last long.

There are sadly an insipid dodgy few who massage their egos and fill their pockets at the expense of the rest of us....and the worst part... most of us let them get away with it.

I just wish we had transparent, ethical, well-meaning people looking out for the industry in a position of authority in the industry, for the industry.



Share via digg Share via facebook Share via linkedin Share via twitter

Similar Topics

  Subject / Started by Replies / Views Last post
xx
On Line Courses

Started by wombles

1 Replies
1733 Views
Last post March 12, 2013, 02:41:29 PM
by Jaxcat
xx
Apprenticeships and the Issues around Block Courses

Started by Jaxcat

1 Replies
1944 Views
Last post June 28, 2012, 04:13:37 PM
by ConcernedPGD
xx
Apprentice Training - Block Courses - are the ITO keeping up with their side of

Started by Jaxcat

11 Replies
5548 Views
Last post February 29, 2012, 10:53:31 PM
by Jaxcat
 
Share this topic...
In a forum
(BBCode)
In a site/blog
(HTML)