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Author Topic: Is the Gas Certification scheme at risk?  (Read 11561 times)

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Offline robbo

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Re: Is the Gas Certification scheme at risk?
« Reply #30 on: June 01, 2011, 06:49:58 PM »
hi guys/jax, Today alone I have searched for three gas certificates on the PGDB website - one for a warranty, one for a compliance issue and one for someone wanting to sell their property - none exist.  The owners are vague about who did the installations and can't remember the name of the supposed gasfitter.
 Jax i don`t see the problem, if you have to rip it out and start again so be it, so much for the cheap job,cheers

Offline aboutgas

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Re: Is the Gas Certification scheme at risk?
« Reply #31 on: June 01, 2011, 09:01:52 PM »
Hi Robbo I don't see a problem just rip it out and start again!

Would you pay for that as a customer?

Losing gas certs is probably the bigest mistake the shiny arses have made in the last 20 years.

How will the insurance company's look at it my guess is "sorry we don't recognize that piece of paper claim denied"
Unless the moral improves the floggings will continue

Offline Jaxcat

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Re: Is the Gas Certification scheme at risk?
« Reply #32 on: June 01, 2011, 09:16:43 PM »
I agree - in the end quality gasfitters want to protect consumers - becasue these consumers are our lifeblood.  If you look at a customer as a "life long" customer then you want to assist them.  The hit and run merchants will just get more marketshare - the problem is that the poor old public don't have a bloody clue what they are meant to have and how they are meant to check if someone is properly authorised to install gas.  This part is where the PGDB have fallen down badly.  I subscribe to the philosphy that all practitioners should show their licence card as soon as they arrive on the job as a matter of course, then at least the customer will know what to ask for in the future.

Some punters will know they got a cheap job and they deserve what they get, but little old Mrs Smith will have been duped by the same guy.  We need to protect our own regulated industry - and the doing away with gas certs is the start of the rot setting in.  Mark my words there are some that would love to see this industry de-regulated - and that is not good for any of us.
Have you learned lessons only of those who admired you, and were tender with you, and stood aside for you?  Have you not learned great lessons from those who braced themselves against you, and disputed the passage with you?  (Walt Whitman 1819-1891)  American Poet

Offline TS

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Re: Is the Gas Certification scheme at risk?
« Reply #33 on: June 02, 2011, 07:16:04 PM »
The PGDB will come up with something. They'll want to do audits still and will need a record of what gasfitting work has been done.

Offline Jaxcat

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Re: Is the Gas Certification scheme at risk?
« Reply #34 on: June 02, 2011, 07:54:49 PM »
Hi TS
I would support a voluntary filing system if the PGDB would do it for the same cost.  I've nothing against on site audits either.

Offline robbo

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Re: Is the Gas Certification scheme at risk?
« Reply #35 on: June 02, 2011, 07:59:27 PM »
hi guys/jax, when you say you would`nt mind sit audits will you do them personally or will it be the gasfitter?

Offline TS

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Re: Is the Gas Certification scheme at risk?
« Reply #36 on: June 02, 2011, 08:23:29 PM »
We're talking about the audits that the Board gets done on us by the Australian outfit thats got the contract.

Offline robbo

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Re: Is the Gas Certification scheme at risk?
« Reply #37 on: June 02, 2011, 08:53:44 PM »
hi guys, surely if these changes go ahead the board will have nothing to do with it so they will be doing nothing, no certs and no audits or am i missing something,cheers

Offline Jaxcat

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Re: Is the Gas Certification scheme at risk?
« Reply #38 on: June 03, 2011, 05:30:02 AM »
The Board will still have to assure themselves of competency of practitioners as required under the Act.  As to the audits I think the days of the Australians are long gone.  They no longer have the contract with the PGDB it was not renewed.  I believe there have been some audits in Taupo trialling a new system.  The audits done by Casey Services were easy to work around - gasfitters gone progressively better at knowing what the auditor wanted and being prepared for the questioning which was basically working through 5261 - and then some on site visits depending on how many gas certs you filed.  If the Board come up with another system which involves visiting jobs then I think this is a more thorough way to deal with checking competency.  A job is what it is, you can't "prepare" for it like you can a question and answer session on 5261.  If you follow the regs and manufacturer's instructions then you will get through an on site audit without any issues. 

I think it is reasonable that the PGDB do random audits as part of discharging their legal responsibilities - but lets hope that it is done by Kiwi firms this time around.  Mind you with the disappearance of the certs it will be interesting to see on what basis they draw candidates.   I also believe that if you pass an audit then you have been proven competent and they should stretch out the time until the next one, rather than have the bi-annual ones as previously done.  This will keep a lid on costs and target the most at risk.

Offline robbo

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Re: Is the Gas Certification scheme at risk?
« Reply #39 on: June 03, 2011, 08:29:48 AM »
hi guys/jax, yes i agree. Of course the board had auditors before Casey Services but it obviously did not work out properly or more than likely was not set up correctly. I have no problem with every job being inspected it really is the only way of making sure that all is o.k. It needs to be a professional organisation and nothing to do with the Board,cheers

Offline TS

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Re: Is the Gas Certification scheme at risk?
« Reply #40 on: June 03, 2011, 07:01:19 PM »
This could be a good opportunity to scrap the audit system. We get cpd points. Is that not enough? Electricians don't have to have audits.

Offline foggy

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Re: Is the Gas Certification scheme at risk?
« Reply #41 on: June 04, 2011, 10:19:34 AM »
I believe the electricians do have some kind of audit sysyem, not sure if it's run the same though.
Trying to get my head around the reasoning behind these changes, do you think it's mainly to put the liability on the company who do the work as has been stated before, alot of these company's (including the one i work for) just employ a certifying fitter and the owner isn't a gasfitter.
I would think that most company's would have liability insurance where as the guy on wages signing the work of generally doesn't.
Still think it's gonna all turn to shite as the certification process seemed one of the only things the board got right.

Offline TS

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Re: Is the Gas Certification scheme at risk?
« Reply #42 on: June 04, 2011, 10:27:48 AM »
This was a NAtional initiative to reduce compliance costs which are passed onto the consumer. It might cost $25 but thats not what we've been charging the consumer.

Offline aboutgas

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Re: Is the Gas Certification scheme at risk?
« Reply #43 on: June 05, 2011, 10:39:40 AM »
This was a NAtional initiative to reduce compliance costs which are passed onto the consumer. It might cost $25 but thats not what we've been charging the consumer.

Hi TS you are probably right there but do you think that by removing certs thst this will remove that cost?

I would be quite happy to lay a bet that most people will continue to charge the same and call it Test, Commission and Invoice statement of work. In point of fact the charge should probably go up as there is more work involved in a statement on the invoice than there is in filing a cert.

Just something to think on.

have a good long weekend all

Offline robbo

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Re: Is the Gas Certification scheme at risk?
« Reply #44 on: June 05, 2011, 12:13:44 PM »
hi guys, yes company owners charging a lot more than $25 and letting the certifyer take all the responsibility. I believe that certifying gasfitters should have it written into their employment contract ,that the company take full responsibility for the work that they perform on their behalf,cheers


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