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The Ministry of Economic Development recently did a public consultation on gas and electrical certification to see if the public and wider industry felt there was any value in certificates. I am not sure how many people put in a submission but I believe a copy of a draft report has been sent from MED to Hon Hekia Parata who is the Acting Minister of Energy and Resources. There is a strong possibility that the Minister may scrap the current certification system in an effort to reduce regulation and costs.
For all the things the PGDB do that we don't agree with, I think most gasfitters would not like to see gas certificates go. One gasfitter I know said this
(and I thought it pretty well represented my views and many others):
"The gas certificate is the difference between someone working in your house legally and some good kiwi bloke deciding that gafitting sounds quite lucrative so I'll slap a sign on the side of the van and go out endangering the general public... I have personally viewed the resulting damage and harm caused by substandard gasfitting. If the government wishes to allow 'cowboys' to work in old ladies houses then scrapping the gas certififation system will definitely be a step in the right direction. Being a tradesman I hate paperwork, I hate the fact that I must purchase the certificates from the PGDB and I hate the fact I need to sit down at night and fill them out. In spite of all that I don't wish to see the back of them."
These certificates protect gasfitters as much as they protect the general public. The system works pretty well and gives assurance to the general public that the work has been performed by a suitably qualified and licensed person. If the Minister thinks putting all this information on an invoice (which is one of the suggestions) instead of a gas cert then she is sadly mistaken.
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Could I urge all the gasfitters who read this forum to take a minute and email the Hon Minister (hekia.parata.mp@parliament.govt.nz) in a professional manner and state why you think gas certificates should be kept.
I believe the Electrical Registration Board have supported the dropping of electrical certificates. This is a backwards step. Sparky's don't have to file their certs like gasfitters do - and at the consultation hearing I attended it sounds like they should as they are finding cowboys doing work left, right and centre.
It wouldn't hurt to let your local Member of Parliament know your feelings either.
This government stun me daily - there is Minister Williamson refusing to vote for the Disallowance Motion which would have put a stop to some stupid regulations, and then a fellow Minister is wanting to throw the baby out with the bathwater over something that truly does help protect the public of NZ. Go figure.
Don't dally with the emails though, I understand a decision may be imminent. If the certification scheme does go, then I believe gasfitters should lobby the PGDB to keep a voluntatry system going. The other thing is - if the profit from selling $25.56 gas certificates goes, then the PGDB will need to make up this revenue stream from somewhere - and guess where it will come from - increased license fees no doubt.
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hi guys/jax, i don`t know the detail of your posts can you point me to the relevent information? do you know what is proposed to replace certs if they are to go, surely some sort of inspection from somewhere. Jax do you have a gasfitting licence? cheers
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Within this section…
•Consultation on gas and electrical certification and fees now open
•New joint gas installation standards published
•Keep a safe distance when working near power lines
•LPG cabinet heaters to require approval prior to sale
Consultation on gas and electrical certification and fees now open
Energy Safety and the Department of Building and Housing are inviting people to have their say on gas and electrical certification and the associated fees.
Associate Minister of Energy and Resources Hekia Parata released the Gas and Electrical Certification and Fees Discussion Document for public consultation yesterday.
Unsafe or non-compliant gas and electrical work can lead to injury or death and property may be damaged or lost. In 2008-2009, Energy Safety completed 158 investigations into significant electrical and gas incidents.
Under the current certification system, gas and electrical workers issue a formal Certificate of Compliance, confirming that work has been completed to the required standard.
The Gas and Electrical Certification and Fees Review aims to identify any improvements that could be made to the certification regime, and to make sure that certification fees are good value for money.
“This review follows the introduction of new electricity and gas regulations last year. It is also an opportunity for the public to provide feedback on how well those changes are working,” says Ms Parata.
Consumers, gas and electricity bodies, tradespeople, and anyone with an interest in energy safety, certification or fees are invited to make a written submission by 5.00pm Friday 4 March 2011.
A discussion document, and further information on the review and consultation process, is available on the Energy Safety website.
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Not sure what they propose to replace it with - one suggestion was the information could all be put on an invoice or perhaps voluntarily submitted on line. Until we see the report from the MED, or the proposal that was sent to the Minister who knows what they have suggested. They gave no indication at the meetings.
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hi guys/jax,... Could I urge all the gasfitters who read this forum to take a minute and email the Hon Minister (hekia.parata.mp@parliament.govt.nz) in a professional manner and state why you think gas certificates should be kept/or not kept? cheers
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Robbo - can't imagine why any gasfitter would want to do away with gas certs? We probably issue about 200 certs a year, sometimes more if it is a bad winter. It gives so much protection to the gasfitter - it outlines exactly what has been done by us and protects us as much as the public. We certify every piece of gasfitting we do, including 9kg bottles.
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hi guys/jax, paul gee would not agree with that,what protection did he get, 9kg installs do not have to be certified,cheers
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Hi Robbo
I'm aware 9kg installs don't HAVE to be certified, and that is the point I was making - we still certify them, that is our company policy - ANY gasfitting has to be certified. I do not see what benefit it is to me NOT to have these jobs certified.
I see the point you are making with the Paul Gee case, but in reality it was not the system that caused this problem, but rather fraud by other persons who altered his certificate, a lack of enforcement on said person(s) and a refusal of anyone to listen to Paul when he said his certs were being added to or changed.
Imagine if there was no cert system with a similar scenario - Paul would still have had the same charges, but how could he prove he didn't do it? At least this way he does have a papertrail including the letter to Nick Smith raising the issue.
What do you think about gas certs Robbo?
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hi jax, i have no real problem with gas certs or the certification of gasfitting work, what i have a problem with is that some companies are run/owned by non-certifying gasfitters but still take on the work. They employ gasfitters who work for $25-30 perhr and sign off the work, the boss man charges $75 per hr or more pays $25 for the cert then charges $120+gst or more to the customer but takes no responsibility.
If that company issues 200 or more certs as you do that is a very tidy sum $24000 in fact,and the poor old gasfitter carries the can if a problem arises, i say that if the boss is not a gasfitter who is taking the responsibility then he should not be able to contract for that work,cheers
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Hi Robbo - we have several certifiers - no one is asked to sign off any one else's work. The money made from certs is used to pay for upskilling in gas. I agree that employees who are signing off other employees work are being asked to travel down a slippery slope, unless they or their employer have some sort of quality assurance scheme. At the very least if I was an employee I would not sign off any colleagues work unless I visited and inspected the job and tested the carcass myself. To take this responsibility for someone else's work is not worth even $40 an hour. However, I believe if an employer employs a certifying gasfitter, plumber or drainlayer, then there is an expectation that they will be willing to certify their own work. this is afterall why you would employ them ahead of a licensed person.
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hi jax, this is pard of a letter that i sent to the minister back in 2009, it was after the we got the memo about the dodgy gasfitter up north(proved to be storm in a teacup):-
I believe that self certification should be discontinued with gas inspectors re-introduced who would be part of the district council operation. Most companies charge $120.00 or more for a $25.00 certificate purchased from the pgd.board, plus $75.00 per hr for gasfitting work because this work has become exclusive since the introduction of self certification. Dropping self certification and introducing gas inspectors would make the industry more affordable giving scope for paid gas inspectors, safer work and remove the selling of certificates to unqualified installers.
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hi jax, this was part of his reply:
In respect of self-certification, you make some good points. Government has agreed to review certification by 31 March 2011. This review will be lead jointly by the Ministry of Economic Development and the Department of Building and Housing. I would encourage you to participate in the review when comments are asked for. It is likely the review will begin towards the middle of 2010. cheers
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They certainly didn't make it very well known to gasfitters that this review was taking place. I was contacted by DBH after some letters I had written them, but I didn't see it advertised widely in any publications. I think MP may have had something about it on their website, but it certainly wasn't high profile. It is a great shame as I think it is something most gasfitters would have an opinion on - one way or another. As far as I understand the gas inspector licence no longer exists - it was done away with after the last round of consultation on licensing. A new class of licence would need to be introduced by the PGDB.
Always interesting to talk about these things - but hate the idea that this industry will be directed by men in suits who have never been practitioners, but decide on the future while gazing out of a multi storey office building in Wellington. They are so far removed from the day to day issues faced by gasfitters (and plumbers for that matter) that it is just scary.
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hi jax, why involve the Board with inspections who did it before self certification? i presume that it was the council. If inspectors were introduced small details that are easily missed by busy tradesmen would be picked up and corrected before a problem arises, it is my opinion that this would protect tradesmen more than self certification and keep the board right out of it,cheers
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There is some merit in your comments Robbo, but do you remember how long you had to wait for gas inspectors. They didn't come from the Council, they came from the gas companies. You would ring them and get them to send out an inspector. I don't think the councils ever had gas inspectors. Self certification has made it easier time wise to process jobs and not spend time sitting waiting for an inspector to come. With the de regulation of the gas industry - the gas retailers wouldn't want the responsibility and I can't imagine the network owner being prepared to do it becasue then the homeowner/business owner could come back at them from main to flame if anything went wrong.
I am against self certification for plumbing for the very reasons you say about gas - however I can't see the system being wound back for gasfitting now, given that the energy companies are deregulated and I don't think gasfitters would accept young whipper snapper inspectors doing gas from the council like some of them inspect plumbing and drainage. You would have to be a certifying/craftsman gasfitter to have any sort of mana with the practitioners.
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yes jax, you would have to make an appointment but that should not be to difficult, the company boss could just make a day to have inspections on all the jobs done that week. We will have to wait for those who get paid much more and obviously know more than us to make the difficult decisions for us.
I don`t see why the council could not have inspectors, guys like the audit people would be able to do it and every job would be inspected not just a couple here and there, how many problems are there just waiting to come to the surface just because they were not inspected? cheers
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hi guys, this is the ruling on 15kg or less installations:-
Since 1 April 2010, with the introduction of the new Plumbers, Gasfitters and Drainlayers Act, all small installations are now considered to be gasfitting work and this work can only be undertaken by people authorized by the Plumbers, Gasfitters and Drainlayers Board.
“Under the Gas (Safety and Measurement) Regulations, which came into effect on 4 May 2010, this type of work remains exempt from requiring a gas compliance certificate to be issued to the owner by a suitably qualified person.
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Good afternoon
Cabinet agreed on 30 May 2011 to streamline the current certification regimes for gas and electrical installation work. Further information is available at: http://www.energysafety.govt.nz/templates/StandardSummary____45632.aspx (http://www.energysafety.govt.nz/templates/StandardSummary____45632.aspx)
If you have any questions or concerns about the changes, to the gas and electrical certification regimes, please contact me so we can discuss them.
Changes
There is a two year timeframe to implement the changes to the certification regime, which are mostly administrative:
• The certificate of compliance will become a ‘record of installation’ which records safety and testing information as required in regulations. The record will contain standardised information but can be on an invoice or a separate form, giving tradespeople more flexibility in their business practices
• All gas installations, with no exemptions, and all prescribed electrical work will require a record of installation, which must be kept for seven years
• No more fees for the sale of certificates, resulting in greater clarity on invoices for work performed
• Consumers (customers) will still receive a copy of the record of installation
• Records will be required upon request by an authorised party (such as a government agency or energy supplier)
• Tradespeople will be able to issue a retrospective record of installation (useful for insurance, home sales, and similar purposes)
• High-risk installation work will be required to be reported to the Ministry of Economic Development as specified in the forthcoming regulations.
The changes to the certification regime will improve the coverage of, and consistency between, gas and electrical requirements and provide flexible administration for tradespeople. The current record of work and protection of tradespeople for the work they perform continues although the burden of certification administration has been moved from the Plumbers, Gasfitters and Drainlayers Boards and the Electrical Workers Registration Board so they can focus on tradesperson competency. In addition, there will be some savings for consumers.
Research
A summary of the submissions on the Gas and Electrical Certification and fees Review Discussion Document will be published on the Energy Safety website by July 2011.
Next steps
Key stakeholders will be consulted during the development of the drafting instructions that will be issued to the Parliamentary Counsel Office to draft regulations to give effect to the changes. The Certification Review Project Team has been authorised by Cabinet to release exposure drafts of the proposed amendments to the certification regime in the gas regulations and the electricity regulations to key industry stakeholders for consideration of detailed technical wording. We expect this consultation will occur during the last quarter of 2011.
Again, if you have any questions or concerns about the changes to the gas and electrical certification regimes please contact me so we can discuss them.
Thank you for participating in the Certification Review by making submissions, attending stakeholder workshops and making your views known to us by email and/ or in meetings. We appreciate the time this has taken and your interest in the Review.
Regards
Judith
Judith Burney l Senior Policy Analyst l Energy Safety l Ministry of Economic Development l
Direct Dial: +64 4 474 2651
33 Bowen Street l PO Box 1473 l Wellington l New Zealand
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Well there it is everyone in black and white. What do you think? Does this open the floodgates for the cowboys in the gas industry (or more rightly, the cowboys on the fringes of the industry) to do work without fear of detection. Will gasfitters now have to prove they didn't do a job rather than they did? Who would ever want to issue a retrospective Record of Installation? How will the PGDB keep a record of who did what work and make sure they prosecute the right person. Will a digital camera and a copy of the day's Dominion be a necessary tool in a gasfitters arsenal so they can hold up the paper and take the picture of the installation to prove what they did and the day the did it.
How will it save the consumer money? Will we still charge to test, commission and furnish a Record of Installation? Is there merit in looking to get a voluntary scheme up and running? What will happen in the intervening two years until this system comes in? What do you think insurance companies will make of this? All of this based on 39 submissions!!! 39!!!!! How many actual practitioners filled in a submission? Did any of you? And if you did, what did you tell them? Did you even know this was happening?????
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Hi Jax /Guys What will be the point in getting your certifying licence see below a quote from the question and answer page of the link on Jax's post >:( >:( >:( >:(
Who is responsible for ensuring work meets regulations and standards?
The gasfitter or electrical worker who performs the work must ensure it meets regulatory requirements and complies with relevant standards. ??? ??? I waz never there I waz over ére :-X :-X
Who is responsible for attestation (on the record of installation)?
The gasfitter or electrical worker performing or supervising the work will be the person who attests to the safety and compliance of the installation.Employers may provide the attestation instead of the individual tradesperson,[/u] as long as appropriate supporting documentation exists.
Yer right what a load of bulls**t >:( >:(
Welcome to cowboy heaven
"I was never there prove I was" Will become the standard answer
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Hi all if anybody has the inclination to email the CLOWNS who ratified this policy here are the two email addresses
h.parata@ministers.govt.nz <h.parata@ministers.govt.nz> Hekia Parata
m.williamson@ministers.govt.nz <m.williamson@ministers.govt.nz> Maurice Williamson
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hi guys,so is it carry on as usual until 2013?
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hi guys, at least it will take the certification away from the board,perhaps they will be able to lay a few people off now and reduce the cost of registraton,cheers
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hi guys/aboutgas, it does`nt mean that you no longer need to be qualified,it will be easy to see who did the job as someone has to present an account and someone has to get paid, it just means that the the person who owns the company(in lots of cases not a gasfitter)and who quotes/supplies the materials at retail prices/and is making the profit, also takes responsibility as they do for plumbing,cheers
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It is carry on as usual until 2013 - but I believe it is a backwards step. At the moment you can't even buy gas certs unless you are a certifying gasfitter - this gives some measure of safety to the home or business owner. I am concerned about following others into a home where they have done gasfitting - how will I be able to check what work has been done by others and when - at the moment any address we are called into can be checked for prior work. Our serviceman can check for certification on different appliances to ensure warranty conditions are met. There will be inconsistencies galore on invoices. As a company I think what we will do is reproduce a certificate very similar to the PGDB one and attach Apprendix O from 5261 to EVERY one of them and that will be our record of installation. Gasfitters need to protect themselves and ensure they have a consistent approach to record keeping - it would be good for everyone to start now and be in the habit of it for 2013. I am disappointed that there won't be a centralised system so every gasfitter can check for themselves about a property and the certificates that exist for it.
How will the public know if someone is a licensed/certifying gasfitter if they don't know to check on thepgdb website. Anyone can put results on an invoice - I firmly believe that this is a disaster. Robbo you seem to think that employers don't look after their certifying gasfitters? Certifiers should be paid for that level of responsibility - and I think that with this system it has the possibility of reducing their level of responsibility - it could result in no more than an employer type licence, which for individual tradesmen is bad becasue it prevents them being able to do any other work outside of what the employer sanctions and has approval for.
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hi guys/jax, i do not dispute what you say i just think that the whole area of gasfitting has been over dramatised, a properly trained tradesman(not necessarily to certifying standard)will be able to carry out a top job with no problems, obviously as he gets more experience the confidence grows. I believe that the Board has successively frightened the public into believing that the use of gas is so dangerous and that they have to rule the installers of gas with an iron fist, it is my opinion that the Board has only reduced tradesman's confidence with threats and fines if a mistake is made to the extent that mistakes will happen, i am glad that some power has been taken away from the Board,cheers
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hi guys, it will be interesting to hear the Master Plumbers spin on these latest developments, i can only imagine that they were instrumental in recomending the changes seeing as the minister takes so much notice of them, cheers
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What will the Board do now without the revenue stream that was the certificates? increase the disciplinary levy?
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I imagine they will increase the licence fee in two years to cover the lost revenue stream. I think this was one area the PGDB did really well and I will be very sorry to see it go. It worked, unlike the sparkies system where no certificates were filed. Today alone I have searched for three gas certificates on the PGDB website - one for a warranty, one for a compliance issue and one for someone wanting to sell their property - none exist. The owners are vague about who did the installations and can't remember the name of the supposed gasfitter. This system will increase the confusion.
Do we want to go and certify these jobs for these customers? No way! So how will a record of installation assist this? What we need to have done is educate the public about who is able to do gasfitting and plumbing and get rid of the cowboys who are doing this work, not certifying it and walking away with the cheque in their pocket and leaving customers potentially without insurance cover, and definitely without warranty cover.
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hi guys/jax, Today alone I have searched for three gas certificates on the PGDB website - one for a warranty, one for a compliance issue and one for someone wanting to sell their property - none exist. The owners are vague about who did the installations and can't remember the name of the supposed gasfitter.
Jax i don`t see the problem, if you have to rip it out and start again so be it, so much for the cheap job,cheers
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Hi Robbo I don't see a problem just rip it out and start again!
Would you pay for that as a customer?
Losing gas certs is probably the bigest mistake the shiny arses have made in the last 20 years.
How will the insurance company's look at it my guess is "sorry we don't recognize that piece of paper claim denied"
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I agree - in the end quality gasfitters want to protect consumers - becasue these consumers are our lifeblood. If you look at a customer as a "life long" customer then you want to assist them. The hit and run merchants will just get more marketshare - the problem is that the poor old public don't have a bloody clue what they are meant to have and how they are meant to check if someone is properly authorised to install gas. This part is where the PGDB have fallen down badly. I subscribe to the philosphy that all practitioners should show their licence card as soon as they arrive on the job as a matter of course, then at least the customer will know what to ask for in the future.
Some punters will know they got a cheap job and they deserve what they get, but little old Mrs Smith will have been duped by the same guy. We need to protect our own regulated industry - and the doing away with gas certs is the start of the rot setting in. Mark my words there are some that would love to see this industry de-regulated - and that is not good for any of us.
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The PGDB will come up with something. They'll want to do audits still and will need a record of what gasfitting work has been done.
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Hi TS
I would support a voluntary filing system if the PGDB would do it for the same cost. I've nothing against on site audits either.
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hi guys/jax, when you say you would`nt mind sit audits will you do them personally or will it be the gasfitter?
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We're talking about the audits that the Board gets done on us by the Australian outfit thats got the contract.
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hi guys, surely if these changes go ahead the board will have nothing to do with it so they will be doing nothing, no certs and no audits or am i missing something,cheers
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The Board will still have to assure themselves of competency of practitioners as required under the Act. As to the audits I think the days of the Australians are long gone. They no longer have the contract with the PGDB it was not renewed. I believe there have been some audits in Taupo trialling a new system. The audits done by Casey Services were easy to work around - gasfitters gone progressively better at knowing what the auditor wanted and being prepared for the questioning which was basically working through 5261 - and then some on site visits depending on how many gas certs you filed. If the Board come up with another system which involves visiting jobs then I think this is a more thorough way to deal with checking competency. A job is what it is, you can't "prepare" for it like you can a question and answer session on 5261. If you follow the regs and manufacturer's instructions then you will get through an on site audit without any issues.
I think it is reasonable that the PGDB do random audits as part of discharging their legal responsibilities - but lets hope that it is done by Kiwi firms this time around. Mind you with the disappearance of the certs it will be interesting to see on what basis they draw candidates. I also believe that if you pass an audit then you have been proven competent and they should stretch out the time until the next one, rather than have the bi-annual ones as previously done. This will keep a lid on costs and target the most at risk.
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hi guys/jax, yes i agree. Of course the board had auditors before Casey Services but it obviously did not work out properly or more than likely was not set up correctly. I have no problem with every job being inspected it really is the only way of making sure that all is o.k. It needs to be a professional organisation and nothing to do with the Board,cheers
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This could be a good opportunity to scrap the audit system. We get cpd points. Is that not enough? Electricians don't have to have audits.
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I believe the electricians do have some kind of audit sysyem, not sure if it's run the same though.
Trying to get my head around the reasoning behind these changes, do you think it's mainly to put the liability on the company who do the work as has been stated before, alot of these company's (including the one i work for) just employ a certifying fitter and the owner isn't a gasfitter.
I would think that most company's would have liability insurance where as the guy on wages signing the work of generally doesn't.
Still think it's gonna all turn to shite as the certification process seemed one of the only things the board got right.
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This was a NAtional initiative to reduce compliance costs which are passed onto the consumer. It might cost $25 but thats not what we've been charging the consumer.
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This was a NAtional initiative to reduce compliance costs which are passed onto the consumer. It might cost $25 but thats not what we've been charging the consumer.
Hi TS you are probably right there but do you think that by removing certs thst this will remove that cost?
I would be quite happy to lay a bet that most people will continue to charge the same and call it Test, Commission and Invoice statement of work. In point of fact the charge should probably go up as there is more work involved in a statement on the invoice than there is in filing a cert.
Just something to think on.
have a good long weekend all
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hi guys, yes company owners charging a lot more than $25 and letting the certifyer take all the responsibility. I believe that certifying gasfitters should have it written into their employment contract ,that the company take full responsibility for the work that they perform on their behalf,cheers
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Hi Robbo that will never happen in this country max work with pitance for pay
as the old saying goes "pay peanuts you get monkeys" all the best have already left the country either to Auz or UK where they are paid in accordance with there skills
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hi guys/a,gas, i don`t see why that could`nt happen because companies carry insurance to cover problems such as the case in which Paul Gee is involved, still after 2013 with no certs there will be nothing to sign. I would`nt be a bit supprised to see "Certifying" replaced either the company should be the certifier end of,cheers
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As far as I know there's no talk of having to put testing and commissioning details on invoices. They're trying to get rid of that sort of thing as it involves extra unnecessary (in their opinion) paperwork. You'll find you'll be competing against guys who won't so you'll be forced to do it cheaper. Things won't be on a level playing field as they were when everyone had to complete certificates.
Out of interest who minds putting on here how much the certificate ended up costing your client?
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hi guys/ts, level playing field is a matter of opinion. I personally charged $65 for certs,$25 to buy $40 for the time and distribution to other parties. I know of one company who charged $120 and also know of another who charges $150, don`t know what will happen when they bring in self cert for plumbing and drainage,cheers
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They'll be years off doing it for plumbing and drainage IMO.
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Hi guys personally I charge $140 which covers the cost of my yearly upskilling i do know of a company who were 3 years ago charging $300. TS I know at this stage that there is nothing to say that you have to put Testing and Commissioning but as these are 2 skills that only a certifier can do you would recognize that there must be a charge for this. Also you must realise that there is more paperwork with any type of statement of installation in any form so the admin cost will be passed on as each company will have to develop and implement there own system. This will also be required to cover the Gasfitters arse (see pgdb and there big stick approach).
As you say it won't be a level playing field if all company's don't do this WELCOME to cowboy heaven you think we have dodgy installations now wait until this comes in. Sad to say it will take a couple of deaths to make council inspectors and the Suits to see sense (I personally hope it is one of them that is the first)
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I agree with you aboutgas. I don't have a problem with people charging for their time or for the hassle of filling out the form. We don't charge enough as it is IMO.
Why are they at us about our charges and bringing down costs. We run businesses to make a profit. I don't see lawyers being hit up about their charges, or accountants. How much does a lawyer charge? Why?
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I imagine a lawyer would charge on his Knowledge of the law just as a plumber gasfitter or drainlayer would and just to help that statement along we are in a position that if we get it wrong we will kill far more people than a lawyer or even a doctor could
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I suggest we have one board,a new gas council of fitters and engineers who would have a certificate system but would be in control of licences but it would be run by our industry and gas fitters and engineers
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it is all down to honest people with integrity enforcing a fair system, piece of paper or not, and we do not have such a system, its about who you know and who you've pissed off, it is personal and involved.........and a load of bollox, i SUPPOSEDLY GET MY RESULT ON MONDAY, CAN'T WAIT BECAUSE THEN I CAN REALLY START TO GO TO WORK ON THIS ISSUE.
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I'm new to this forum so started to troll through the posts and this one caught my eye as I did try to have my say at the time and emailed the hon Hekia Parata but basically we were shutting the gate after the b----y horse had bolted.I read further posts that said it will take either an explosion or death to change it back to certification process,well you'd think but if any of you out there remember the gun law change from permit each gun we had to just licensing the person instead, then look at all the deaths and injuries that have occurred since and still no change back to a way that actually worked.Ive got to say I don't hold much hope for sanity in the gas industry and maybe its a good job were running out of gas in NZ.
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Ed - we're not running out of gas that fast!! From a domestic perspective there is heaps of gas - and gasfitters services will be required for a long time to come. It is a shame that this system as it works now is going to be handed over to MED who I think are making the framework up as they go along. While there are a number of negative comments on this forum about the PGDB - the one thing that runs fairly smoothly is the gas certificate regime. I fear the new system coming in around 2013 will mean it will be easier for member's of the public to be hoodwinked by un licenced tradespeople. A record of installation can be done on an invoice, by a form a company or individual make up themselves - at least with the cert system now if you aren't curently licensed you can't even purchase a cert - so the customer has some level of assurance. Like a lot of things - the baby has been thrown out with the bath water and I don't believe the users of this sytem i.e. the public and practitioners were ever truly consulted properly. The men in suits have had a field day with this one - with the idea that it will reduce costs to consumers. I'll eat my hat if that comes to pass.
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hi guys/jax, yes if it was only done with the idea of saving the consuner money they were very narrow guidelines to work within. The deregulation of the building industry was to save money, instead it created the leaky home syndrome which has worked out to be very expensive,cheers
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Visit the MED website and you can now view the full list of submitters and also the content of the submissions - very interesting.
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Got a link to the submissions?
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http://www.energysafety.govt.nz/upload/ES%20Certification%20Review%20-%20Summary%20of%20Submissions%20%28FINAL%29%202011-07-22.pdf (http://www.energysafety.govt.nz/upload/ES%20Certification%20Review%20-%20Summary%20of%20Submissions%20%28FINAL%29%202011-07-22.pdf)
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Thanks
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hi guys, some upskilling courses for anyone who is interested,cheers
Course charges (excluding GST):
Active Frequent Fitter Club members can attend any up-skilling courses shown on the course calendar or in the course details indicated with **. These courses have been created or funded by Contact Energy and discounted rates have been made available for active Frequent Fitter Members as agreed with the MPGD.
Please note you will be charged the Non-member rates below for those up-skilling courses that are not indicated with a ** e.g. Pipe sizing/Gas standards courses.
Course charges are based on the number of CPD credits the up-skilling course has be valued at and charged at a $$ amount per CPD credit:
Membership type: Value per credit:
Frequent Fitter or Master Plumber members $15.00
Non-members $30.00
Example:
FFC member attending the Construction Contracts Act course = 12 CPD x $15.00 per CPD credit = $180.00 + GST
Non-member attending the Construction Contracts Act course = 12 CPD x $30.00 per CPD credit = $360.00 + GST
Remember your membership of the Frequent Fitter Club (including whether you qualify as an active member) and/or MPGD will be verified prior to the course date.
*An active Frequent Fitter Club member is a gas fitter who is a member of the Frequent Fitter Club and has registered an average of one or more new Contact Rockgas LPG or natural gas connections each month with Contact at www.frequentfitter.co.nz (http://www.frequentfitter.co.nz) over the previous three month period prior to registering for the up-skilling course.
Course payments:
All course payments must be made at time of your registration to secure your place on the course. You will be charged an additional $10.00 administration fee should you register on the night.