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Author Topic: Replacing galvanized pipe main supply and water pressure  (Read 7647 times)

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Offline robbo

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Re: Replacing galvanized pipe main supply and water pressure
« Reply #15 on: March 05, 2013, 09:56:07 PM »
i guys, i don`t know why subbies let the bill get so high and risk not getting paid, when a reasonable amount is unpaid is when subbies should say pay us now or we stop work untill we are paid up to date. I hope P.Diver does not go broke he has got a lot of guys and a lot of equipment to keep going, i worked for him years ago and i have to say that he was one of the best bosses that i have worked for, i do beleive that he is owed heaps,cheers

Offline Jaxcat

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Re: Replacing galvanized pipe main supply and water pressure
« Reply #16 on: March 06, 2013, 04:57:57 AM »
Robbo - it wasn't a case of it getting too high and not getting paid, Mainzeal paid each month up till January when the December progress claims were due and not paid.  Then they sent emails saying payment would go through on 5 February.  If you are doing a large job (or multiple jobs for the same company) you can easily have progress claims in the hundreds of thousands across a company.  Imagine a month of fitting out with all your finishing gear to be charged across a multi story apartment block, or an institutional job where you have very expensive stainless fixtures, or even a job where you have 10 - 15 guys working.  Add to this the retention factor and you can see how subbies across NZ and across many trades have been sucked in by Mainzeal, who until this situation seemed to be very steady and safe.

Now is the time for Government to set up a scheme whereby retentions are independently managed so that if and when companies fail like this, the subbies aren't the ones carrying the can.  I'll bet Shipley, Collins and co got their directors fees, and I'll bet Mr Yan's homes in Epsom and Remuera are all tied in in layers of trusts etc.
Have you learned lessons only of those who admired you, and were tender with you, and stood aside for you?  Have you not learned great lessons from those who braced themselves against you, and disputed the passage with you?  (Walt Whitman 1819-1891)  American Poet

Offline robbo

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Re: Replacing galvanized pipe main supply and water pressure
« Reply #17 on: March 06, 2013, 08:17:03 AM »
hi guys/Jax, (Now is the time for Government to set up a scheme whereby retentions are independently managed so that if and when companies fail like this, the subbies aren't the ones carrying the can)
...
so untill this happens subbies should nor entertain working for them, i know that ,that is a simplistic veiw but what are you trying to acheive? you cant afford to wind up with thousands of dollars of unpaid work that you now owe, you would have been better off plodding along with a small buiseness that has it`s bills paid,cheers

Offline Jaxcat

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Re: Replacing galvanized pipe main supply and water pressure
« Reply #18 on: March 06, 2013, 01:57:31 PM »
Robbo the trouble is you don't know they are ratbags until it is too late!  I don't disagree that a smaller business with its bills paid is good - but it is all relative a one man band who has a big house go belly up is in the same position albiet on a smaller scale, but he still has to mortgage his house or go under.  The fact is that you always start small, and then get a bigger job and so employ more people and so on and so on.  Then you can end up with 30+ people working for you - what do you do?  You have to keep on pricing big work or else they won't have jobs - suddenly you are feeding the dinosaur.   Many employees will be made redundant because businesses will shrink and cut costs - this is a tragedy for the employer and employee as these people become like family to you.  You know their partners, you know their children, hell you've watched them grow up alongside your own sometimes.  Suddenly through no fault of yours or theirs you may not have a job for them.  None of it is good.  So what are you trying to achieve?  Nothing except to take up opportunities as they arose.  I understand this is the risk of being in business - and so you won't hear me saying government should bail Mainzeal out, or anyone else for that matter.  What I do call for though is some regulations around theft and reckless trading.  Subbies have been used by main contractors for years and years to bankroll their developments (this applies to big players like Mainzeal and to small builders bulding spec houses) - no one is immune and if we can see trust accounts set up where retentions have to be paid in to then that gives some peace of mind to tradesmen around the country and will ensure the fat cats have to properly budget for these developments and not use subbie money to fund it.

Offline robbo

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Re: Replacing galvanized pipe main supply and water pressure
« Reply #19 on: March 06, 2013, 05:20:38 PM »
hi,jax, i have much sympathy for you and others but you have to vett all prospective clients, make the rules that suit you or walk away. Builders use subbies because they know that they can screw them to a low price and that if anything goes wrong they can liquidate and let the subbies bear the brunt ,legally. if retention was mentioned to me the work just wouldn`t happen, there will always be an excuse for not paying it back,the problem for companies like yours is that you may finish up having to go bankrupt yourself so what did you gain,cheers

Offline gordyplum

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Re: Replacing galvanized pipe main supply and water pressure
« Reply #20 on: March 07, 2013, 09:24:50 PM »
Hi , you should not have to vet a big company like mainzeal,you would think they would be ok. I've caught up with some of their[ex] site foremen, they had no idea what was happening untill they were asked for the keys to their vehicles. They get no holiday pay etc. I wonder which company is next if mainzeal can go under.

Offline Rodza1

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Re: Replacing galvanized pipe main supply and water pressure
« Reply #21 on: April 13, 2013, 07:39:06 AM »
Hi Toycollector, I see you have answers for part 1 of your original questions. Did you solve part 2 yet? why your hot water pressure has been dropping over the years??

I love a good old fashioned plumbing problem like this so thought I would add my opinion

If it was me and judging by what you have already posted, your new water pipe from the boundary to the house has all been replaced, no galv. I would replace every bit of remaining galv pipe if any remaining that carries water under the floor of your home to the hot water cylinder inlet/ pressure reducing valve. Then if your pressure is still low for your hot water & it is not from a blocked shower rose or shower mixer or anything silly like that you then know your cold water supply is not to blame. I would then suggest replacing the pipework for the hot water, directly from the cylinder outlet either in full or as much is as able to be reached, or perhaps just to the most affected outlet for now which Im guessing is your shower.  I would also check there is not a build up restricting flow on the 20mm threaded fittings on the hot water cylinders inlet and outlet as I have seen this before. I am surprised to read neither of your first two plumbers did a flow check. Based on mains supply pressure they should be able to calculate an acceptable flow rate to the pressure reducing valve for example or any other outlet and advise on pipe replacement etc. Change the PRV, check the filter and give up??? Seems like incomplete service to me.

Lastly I would inspect your toby out on the boundary, if it looks very dated it may have been there for decades. If it does not shut off 100% either which many do not, phone the council to report it and ask to have it replaced as you have plumbing work to do.

Even if it is difficult to turn you can get it replaced, Ive worked as a plumber and a water network contractor and we get calls like this on the network all the time.Council contractors will replace your toby at no charge to you, and the surround/ riser and toby lid if required. Also if the pipe from the main in the street to your toby is also galv or copper they will replace all of this also usually, (well we do where i live in north island anyway, although every council is different.)

It doesnt hurt to try it on. As a plumber I have had jobs where the galv has rusted up on the council side thus cutting the flow of water right down to a property. To the untrained eye the pressure looks fine but it is the "flow rate" you are interested in. As a water network contractor I have seen this also with galv, very common. Galv restricts water flow over time by forming rust on the internal lining of the pipe as water has oxygen in it, the two things needed for rust to form, copper seems to stay the same but suffers from pipe wall softening and pinhole leaks.

Cheers

The Plumbers Gasfitters And Drainlayers Board- "White Collar Mafia"


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