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Classes of Registration
As we stated last edition the Board invited the Federation to speak to it regarding Classes of Registration. This meeting went extremely well so read what happened.
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I agree that once a person has completed their apprenticeship, gained their national certificate and passed the PGDB registration exam then they are capable of doing their own work and be responsible for it.
However where does this put people that have gone on to pass their Certifying exam and gain advanced trade? Why would you bother if it is no longer required?
I also have some reservation that just because you pass the exam, are you capable of producing an acceptable standard of work? And what checks will be put in place if any, rather than just being able to hold someone responsible and then hang them out to dry.
Just wondering....
ust
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Hi Enn. I think the Federation is on the right track and the term I heard kicked around was work place competent. From what I understand this is what the Tertiary Education Council expects an apprentice to be when they complete their apprenticeship. So going by that they not only have to pass the exams but also need to be skills competent. Good training is what is needed. I think the Federation is right in what they say about sticking to our primary business of producing competent plumbers gasfitters and drainlayers. After that is where the specialist type subjects come into it.
Look at Medical. They produce Competent Doctors and Nurses and then they specialise from there. In our case advanced trade subjects could be developed and that way if you don't want to progress to advanced trade subjects you don't have to but you can still work legally at the primary without supervision.
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Hi - this is a very interesting subject - my understanding is that the Federation are asking for a longer apprenticeship - 10 000 hours I think, so a bit of turning the clock back. Couple this with training at block courses instead of full on assessment, a registation exam and then we should be able to produce people that are workplace competent. I understand Enn may be feeling a little aggreived if he has passed his Craftsman/Certifying exam and picked up that licence, but really is that a good reason to stop progress.
What we have to watch is that in our efforts to patch protect what we may or may not have done we can end up stopping progress in the industry as a whole. A bunch of certifiers may say bugger it, these guys shouldn't just get it given to them, but that's not what is happening. The initial craftsman tickets were grandfathered when it came in, and the drainlaying certifiers ticket was also grandfathered for those that had registered status.
We need to stop and consider some blue sky thinking that will take the WHOLE industry forward to a better place. Electricians can get registered and work unsupervised at the completion of their apprenticeship and passing their exam - that's all the Federation is asking for - something similar with a slightly longer apprenticeship in order to gain experience.
I think it is well worth considering.
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Hi guys fully agree Jax, guys who have done all the present system requirements have done very well but in my opinion the extra years/exams should not be necessary if we went back to the proven apprenticeship course of the past that produced excellent tradesmen (look to the past to see the future) . I believe that after a fully served apprenticeship, a now fully qualified person needs a couple of year’s full employment with a medium to large company working on medium to large major contracts to be exposed to many different types of installations and also the huge amount of experience of older work mates, this is where the `hands on` knowledge is really learned and the taught knowledge becomes real. I would be a fan of after a fully served apprenticeship, a now qualified trade’s person should stay with the company or join any other competent company for another two years before given the right to be self employed, I know this may stir a few guys up but from my own experience I found it extremely beneficial to work with trades people who had many more years in the trades than I and who passed on their skills and knowledge freely. I worked on sites with companies that employed such trades people for about nine years and felt really confident/competent to carry out my chosen trades tasks without worries.
Just to finish my view, I believe that the present setup has been completely fragmentated with present and future trade’s persons in our trades not knowing which way to turn for the best, cheers
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I think the Certifying qualification should be kept as a separate exam. The reason being that over the years i have worked with guys who have stayed in their comfort zone their whole careers. I know a plumber who only done new housing his whole apprenticeship then carried on working there, when he moved on he had never worked on low pressure hot water or even seen the old school style feltonmix shower. Going by the 6 years and you get to be certifying he would have qualified before he moved on. At least by having the separate exam you have to upskill yourself. If i wanted to work for myself i would be willing to put in the effort and study to gain the Certifying tickets.
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Hi guys, good point Macmole but the extra work to gain certified would not involve learning the old low pressure systems or Feltonmix shower valves, that should have been learned from other more experienced trades persons whilst doing maintenance when apprenticed to a company who covered a broad range of work. It’s unfortunate for apprentices if they get stuck with a company who specialise in housing only, from my own experience it was normal to work with a range of tradesmen doing all types of work from maintenance to major contracts, cheers
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Ok an interesting discussion developing here. We all know there is a widening skills gap with increasing demand for skilled and experienced trades people. We also know that we have an ageing workforce (I believe the average age of plumbers is around the 55+ mark here in NZ) We have legislation that dictates who can and what licence is required for different types of work.
To put it in a nutshell, we need more people at the face, meeting the increasing demand and at the same time satisfying the legislation, insurance, local government, and governing body requirements. A lot of box ticking!
I know my experience with trades training was mostly great from what the tutors were trying to do in a sausage factory situation & I was fortunate enough to work with and be taught by some very experienced tradesmen. There is not a day that goes by where I am not learning something new.
I also realise that ''work place competent'' trades training has no resemblance to the ITO experience that I & others went through at that time. As for having to gain certifying status to work off my own bat was just one of the hoops required to be jumped through.
I can add to this but will do so when I'm not so tired and capable of more (competent) rational thought....
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Some good thoughts everyone. One of the big issues is that the Plumbers Gasfitters and Drainlayers Act 2006 defines what Sanitary Plumbing, Gasfitting and Drainlaying is. That's Our primary business and is what we should be teaching all apprentices. This is if they are city or country based. Training is the key and everyone should be taught the same. The industry drifted away on an unlawful path and had business management as a requirement to become a plumber, gasfitter or drainlayer. This has been corrected but now other subjects are creeping in. Don't get me wrong a lot of subjects are nice to have and benefit a lot of individuals but the majority of the country is in the business of being plumbers gasfitters or drainlayers. Lets get that right first and get people workplace competent then move on to the advanced subjects if they want. Protect the public by being competent plumbers gasfitters and drainlayers.
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What about a license for life?. We are qualified for life and are deemed workplace competent in our trade/s so why not have a license for life and cut all the annual licensing dramas. Get an Industry Board that looks after ALL aspects of the industries governance which is funded by the industry. I for one don't mind funding something if I am getting something for my money. So how about a license for life and a Board that is representative of the industry.
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hi all attached is a letter I sent to the board last year . its a bit of my opinion on this subject
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Another though from me on the difference between being a Tradesman plumber or Certifying plumber. I don't see why someone who is classed as being a Tradesman plumber shouldn't be able to start their own business and be responsible for their own work. To make the Certifying plumber different maybe only allow them to be able to pick up permits ( like the letter from the previous post). There is lots of work that doesn't require permits or consent.
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hi , as far as I know anyone can own a plumbing company in nz . you don't have to have any training or background in our industry
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hi guys, Ford1, I think I said something similar back in 2004/2005 and there onward but all is lost in a throw away couple of sentences by the minister (read ministers personal office waller) . The only good thing that has happened in the last two decades has been the formation of the Federation who have kept the pressure on to the point that the board and minister have had to change things in our favour. If not for the federation there is no way that we would only be paying $30.00 for a year of "upskilling" , granted there is a lot more work to be done to regain our industry but at least the board/minister now know that we are prepared and capable of putting up a formidable battle, cheers
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hi guys,(hi , as far as I know anyone can own a plumbing company in NZ . you don't have to have any training or background in our industry)...Yeah that's fine but who is the mug who is going to sign off the work and take responsibility when things go wrong? while the boss swans around and makes the most money, I cant imagine that it happens, cheers
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hi robbo if I said that back in 2004 & are still new to plumbers nz & are a jr member I would say you hero & senior members must of been around a long long time
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hi Ford1, yeah been around for a long time go back and look at some of my posts, you have to keep the pressure on or:- do nothing and nothing will happen... The powers of be work on the principle of, ignore them long enough and they will go away, we cant let that happen or all is lost, cheers
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Hi Ford1 Yep Robbo has been around since tablets were made of stone not electronics. A good man with a wealth of knowledge of what has been and gone. He's seen it all before.
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ok good one so what do you gurus think of the federations one class of rego for everyone ?
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yes Watchdog still got my hammer and chisel, but still keep that chisel sharp just in case I need it, ha-ha, cheers
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I'm in favour of the one class of registration, providing the apprenticeship is a 10000 hour one. It is like going back to the future - the old apprenticeships were this long and it covers off the experience required. There are insufficient supervisors at the moment which leads to all sorts of weird arrangements that are sometimes dubious at best. We have certifiers in one part of the country saying they are supervisors to people in other parts of the country. We have certifiers whoring their tickets to others who are not able to work without some form of supervision - yet they are not fulfilling their legal requirements. I think that if the training is improved and the apprenticeship lengthened then we could safely embrace a one qualification type scenario. Many say "well I had to sit a separate exam" and use this for justification why others should also. It's not a strong enough argument in my book. The Federation put a strong case up for one qual and the only arguments I have heard against it appear to be from people patch protecting or wanting others to have to do what they did. The key is the additional 2000 hours on the apprenticeship.
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hi guys, Jax couldn't agree more, if it wasn't broken why did they try to fix it and failed,cheers