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http://www.newshub.co.nz/tvshows/story/plumbing-problems-could-hit-half-of-new-kiwi-homes-2016031418#axzz42qQad9PU
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A few days ago Steven Joyce was interviewed regarding this. His views are very clear. If a plumber installs a product he is responsible. Doesn't matter whether the customer supplied it , the plumber is still wrong. It is about time the government stopped the imports of poor quality fittings, fixtures, pipe etc. It is so hard to tell customers that their cheap taps are rubbish, AND have them believe you. It would be much easier if there were standards that had to be adhered to. I wonder how much this has to do with Mr Key not wanting to upset his mates in China
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http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/298938/inquiry-launched-over-shonky-building-products
Sorry, it was Mr Smith. Not quite sure how we are supposed to identify every piece of crap thats imported.
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well is this not what the NZS scheme is for?
Its applicable for everything made i NZ so why cant we make it applicable for everything imported to NZ?
Either regulate it to the n'th - or deregulate it - there is no happy medium
If people wanna buy crap then let them buy crap - dont throw a hospital pass back to the plumber - people dont give a rats, I'll just have the cheapest thanks....
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It is a simple equation for trades people. If the regulation of the products falls back on tradespeople in the manner the Minister says then it is very important that the tradespeople cover themselves. It is very likely public liability won't cover it as it will be too higher risk so that only leaves one thing to do and that is double the charge out rates so sufficient can be made to save for the inevitable.
If the manufactures know we have been given the hospital pass and quality isn't their responsibility they will maximise their profits by skimping on quality and products will get even worse than they are now.
I feel the Government is creating generations of stupid people by laying the responsibility for their protection on those who are smart enough to apply common sense.
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hi guys, Wal, the other way of doing it is to suggest to the customer that the product that they have procured is not fit for purpose so you will not install. Then recommend a similar product from a reputable supplier that you will be happy to install, because the customer will not know what is good or what is no good. And you could also have a printed `Disclaimer` ready at quote time for the customer to sign, cheers
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I have lost quite a few jobs doing just that. People think you are trying to rip them off even when you tell them to buy the products themselves. Often it is be ause they are doing a quick reno to sell so zero interest in long term issues.
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hi, Wombles, if they are doing a quick Reno to sell, then once sold you are off the hook as any comeback will be on them,cheers
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I hear that, but the bigger picture is that a child might get lead poisoning a few years down the track. Surely the government has a responsibility to ensure that these poor products are legislated against. I'm sure that it is illegal to put lead into paint, is this not the same?
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hi guys, Wombles, the answer is simple: don't install that crappy tap ware from those cheap plumbing supply outfits. Bunning's stuff would be minimum requirement in my opinion, if that is not cheap enough what are people expecting to pay tradesmen, cheers
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Simply not installing a cheap product is not always easy but the right thing to do. I have spoken to several plumbers that dont want to lose existing clients by refusing to install client supplied tap ware or fixtures. Clients seems to think that the plumber only wants to sell their "recommended" product to make a "margin" and refuse to see the whole picture and acknowledge it's for their own protection. I have to agree with wombles, the issue needs to be dealt with at the source and that is to legally stop import or sale of such products without an approved minimum standard. So first things first... What is that minimum standard in New Zealand?
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hi guys, the minister may leap into action on dodgy materials now before the boss gives him a boot in the backside, quite a costly cockup, cheers
..The water pipes in Wellington's seven-year-old hospital are riddled with tiny holes and will have to be ripped out and replaced.
The health board has confirmed pinhole leaks have been discovered in the regional hospital that cost $346 million to build.
The leaks are extensive in both the hot and cold water pipes across the more than 48,0000-square metre hospital in Newtown.
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Who will they hold responsible? The manufacturer, thensupplier, The specifier, the plumbing firm who won the contract, or the subbie who actually installed it? Mr Smith would have the subbie in the gun, after all he installed it!
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This is why we need a fair and even system, not just lumping blame on the poor plumber trying to feed his family.
As it is now, you could be up for it 10 years down the track, I have been told that if you don't use "fit for purpose" gear then the come back is on the plumber/installer/certifier.
What if your boss, the company owner, who holds no licenses..... decides to buy the cheap crap copper pipe and tells you to install it, you do.....who gets it in the neck then? How do you know its going to fail?
Then you get to run the gauntlet of how connected you are compared to the other people involved.....if you get trumped....your f****ed, been there got the tee shirt, well just the tee shirt because it cost me my house and business.
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I understand that the chlorination (super dose) process may be a contributing factor in the failure of the copper pipework, it will be interesting to see. As it has not been in service for any great length of time, other factors will have to be involved. I wonder what the brand of copper was?
I have seen first hand the effects of this particularly in the hot 82 degree lines where i work but as the plant is 40 plus years old the time frame that sections have been in service is not clear.
I believe that it was an Australian parent company that is now defunct with a NZ subsidiary still in business did the plumbing i cant recall the name.
I imagine that they are having a good look at there liability cover!
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In todays news is an article about fake Chinese Hebel. I wonder of Nick Smith will hold the installers responsible. Using his own statement that plumbers are responsible for deciding that the products they install meet NZ standards, then surely the LBP that installed the HEbel will be responsible for the repairs.. Anyone want to place bets that different rules apply?
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I see in the Wellington Hospital leaky copper fiasco - they are suing Fletchers, Crane Group (owned by Fletchers) and the designer/specifier Beca but not the plumber for $19million - which is the cost to rectify the mess.
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Job was done by Aquaheat Hasties Joint Venture. JV is now dissolved. Don't think there is any question of a problem with the installation - the copper involved was Crane Copper and some has already been replaced with Kembler copper (small amounts). There is a lot more to this than meets the eye, the question of a lack of filters, water quality etc - it doesn't appear to be anywhere near as simplistic as simply poor quality copper. One thing's for sure - it is going to cost the taxpayer of NZ a shit load to rectify.