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Gidday Plumbers,
Home handyman here, with first home, a 1930's villa. It was moved in the 80's and new polybutylene pipe done. Trouble is, since we bought the house 5 years ago, I've repaired about 8 tiny hairline splits in the pipe. Not the joints, but in the pipe itself, usually right near a clip nailed up under the floors. The last one was in the walls, where it ran through a joist, not fun.
This pipe is Buteline brand, and dark brown in colour. Its definitely not the infamous black Dux Qest.
I'm interested to know if any of you guys have come across similar old split pipe?
I've been just installing crimp couplings, but will have to replace the whole lot I think now. Bit at a time.
Cheers
Chris
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Bring on the popcorn...
:P
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Hi ,
The trouble that you will have posting a question on this board is that all the plumbers won't want to tell you to fix your own plumbing.... They think it takes 5 years and an exam to learn how to cut and crimp plastic pipe, similar to being a dentist or a surgeon.
I don't really have a problem with people cutting out pipe and replacing it, as long as you're not changing pipe layout or tampering with hot water cylinder.
I'm not really sure what your question is. The pipe is old and nothing lasts forever, not even copper or galvanised iron. Cut it out, replace it. Make sure you check your crimps with a crimp tester and cut your pipe square and clean. No problems
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Ummm Spud that's because it does takes years to become a plumber... Sometimes there's a bit of theory involved in it. I agree nothing lasts forever, and the fact is that as soon as you fix one piece you simply put pressure on another piece. I watched a neighbour of mine have 5 goes at "mending" his water main because he didn't want to replace the whole thing. What he ended up with was five holes dug up his driveway, five patches of pipe and each time he got it mended in one place it failed in another a few weeks later because the pressure just moved up. Sometimes when something needs doing - it just needs doing.
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It doesn't take years to learn how to cut out buteline, push on a dux secure joiner, replace the pipe and crimp. Literally takes 15 minutes to learn that skill. If a homeowner isn't putting in new pipes I can't see why they can't repair old. You guys do plumbers a disservice by thinking you're the only people who can do this. It seems greedy.
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Hi guys, yes Spud I agree that it does not take years to learn how to cut out pipe and repair with a crimped joiner. However there are certain rules to follow which come with years of experience, but an owner who is going to do this has to have the correct tools which would probably cost more than getting an experience man to carry out the work. I advise any would be owner/repairer to call the Plumbers, Gasfitters, Drainlayers, Board, to clarify just exactly who is authorised to do these repairs as not being authorised can bring consequences to the would be repairer and cost them considerably more than employing a qualified plumber, cheers
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Kiwichris
I vaguely remember running across some poly type pipe that was brown in colour and had potable water written on and it was not dux quest crikey must have been about 20yrs ago.
Your on to it tho just get it replaced as you can budget the money to get it done.
I'm not going to get involved with the plumber non plumber debate as i believe no one really gives a flying fig.
Im going for my popcorn now...
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To late Enn I already have front Center seat and have eaten half the box lol
But my two cents worth is if we don't start protecting our trade we won't have a trade soon as the powers that be will keep eroding it away out from under us
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I agree with you guys about protecting the trade, but I think that if you go to far you look silly. Like trying to say that only a plumber can change a toilet seat. Its crazy.
Cutting out and replacing a water pipe like for like isn't a huge deal. Most handymen can do it fine. To be complaining about something like this just seems really bitter and twisted.
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We all know it's not rocket science crimping a poly bute fitting but it was only a few months ago that Buteline had a CPD course for there product and I believe it was worth 12 pts ( didn't bother going myself). Now if we didn't get our points to renew our licence and carried out the work we can be done by our understanding board, that's where the problem lies.
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12cpd points? What a joke. The whole things a joke
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So Spud where should the line be drawn? I kind of feel like I could kind of wire up something - nothing too hard, but joining wires isn't rocket science if I match up the colours right? No big deal right? In the end the isolated examples you give may be fine, but there is legislation and there are regulations - and encouraging people to engage in regulated works when they are not licensed is encouraging them to invalidate their insurance - then it suddenly becomes a bit of a big deal.
Home owners can do a lot of things - but I would always feel more comfortable erring on the side of caution and encouraging them to get a plumber - because sometimes its just a bit more than what they think - that and I wouldn't want to be responsible for invalidating anyone's insurance.
In regards to CPD - I think those of us who had opinions in the last consultation round are hopeful that we will see a new system sometime in the next year or two - let's hope so anyway as the current system is just woefully inadequate. The Federation have always had some pretty sensible ideas when it comes to upskilling and the like - so let's hope it all pans out.
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Haha, thanks for the replies guys.
Spud, my question was "I'm interested to know if any of you guys have come across similar old split pipe?". I'm just curious about the stuff, and wondering if anyone else had come across it. I'm an engineer, so failure modes of materials is kinda interesting.
I agree, it's old pipe, and done its time, but I would have expected old piping to fail at joints rather than at random point along the pipe. And it's just water in the pipes, not anything corrosive.
Spent last weekend ripping out 1/3 of it, and replacing with new Buteline pipe and fittings, quite satisfying. Interesting that when I had all the old bits of brown pipe out on the lawn, it was coiled and twisted just like it was coming off the reel back in 1980. Even though it had been pinned under the house in straight sections for 25 years, it still remembered it's original shape. Bet that's the problem, it's been under stress for 25 years and developed cracks eventually on the inner radius's.
Anyway, back to the more exciting topic... plumbers vs non-plumbers. For me its fun and satisfying to repair stuff myself, and the parts are all out there at Bunnings, so why not. It's not rocket science. But for a lot of people, they're not interested in this sorta thing, so call the professional. You don't really need to "protect" the industry... if it's complicated or dirty enough, people will call you. If they want to dig up their driveway in 5 places before learning the hard way, thats the way some people operate, haha, I'm probably one of them.
Also, another thing, whats up with the whole Buteline "15mm" vs PWS "16mm" thing? They measure the same ID and OD to me, but labelled as 2 diff sizes. I'm sticking with 100% Bute pipe and fittings, but they look interchageable.
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Gooday mate, yeah I think you need to replace it all, I recon it is that 'Acorn' push fit stuff that was around in the eighties, handy man stuff that is not made to last. I think you will have trouble with the bits that you left in if you have crimped onto it, cheers
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Cheers, yeah, it's all comin out. Well, all except the bits in the walls to the kitchen and laundry sinks. Wall will have to come apart when those split :-)
Nah, its all Buteline stuff, but 25 years old.
Just out of interest, is what I'm doing illegal? Was reading another post where the plumbers were flaming a commercial building owner saying he was doing it illegally. But hopefully that doesn't apply to residential?
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Hi Keewee
Yes what you are doing is illegal just pop along to the Plumbers board website www.pgdb.co.nz and have a browse
That cheap job your doing for yourself might just get real expensive
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Spud my friend, it wasn't plumbers who said that changing a toilet seat was naughty. Guess who it was. Also, guys, 12 points for a buteline course!! Guys..... thats your licence,! And you get beer and pizza,,! ITS FREE. Would you rather pay at least $75 for less with no beer and pizza!!! Think about it. It's all shit anyway, may as well enjoy the shit. Good on the suppliers for helping us ALL out, not just trying to make a quick buck at OUR expence.
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The suppliers are making several quick bucks at your expense mate - do you for one minute think the costs of your "free" beers and pizza aren't in the product price you get charged? C'mon - they are business people too - they support the old "points" system because they got a captive audience. For my two cents worth I pay $80 for Site Safe every two years where they repeat over and over the same things. To pay $75 or less (and remember the price isn't set in stone) to get updates on codes and legislation to ensure I work safely, maybe some health and safety to also ensure I don't get pinged by Worksafe and maybe feedback from disciplinary processes sounds like a common sense approach. The good suppliers will continue to run courses on their products - but going to these doesn't ensure you are competent. I went on one course where they promised to update me on the latest gas changes - and the course was a year out of date - sure they covered the certification changes, but completely missed the changed in 5601 which were two months before the course. Wouldn't you rather than some consistent course material delivered by trainers that will ensure you keep out of trouble and actually learn something? Product training is just that - product training - good - but not a measure of competence. I think the Federation have got this one right and their submission is well worth supporting.
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The board had the perfect opportunity with the gas regulation change. They could/should have used that as proof they are interested in cpd by possibly running some proper seminars or something equivalent. No money to be made there I guess. As you correctly point out the $75 price isn't set in stone, I bet it will only go up, not down. Also if suppliers stop their cpd courses do you think the price of their product will be reduced? They are businesses after all.