Plumbers NZ is New Zealand's largest online plumbing, gas and drainage resource. Plumbing exam help, plumbing news, directory and free quotes.
-
Having an industry that is fearful of the regulator is not regulation but an oppressive bureaucracy. Even after a change in Minister we appear to be no better off. Our impression is we, as an industry, are being punished because of failing Government and Board systems and it appears those in positions that can make change are too gutless to say “enough is enough”.
You would think that with a PhD in landslides at the University of Canterbury that the Minister, Dr Smith would realise the regulation of the industry is slipping away from his appointed Board.
-
Thanks to everyone involved in the Federation for all the work done in 2014 - great stuff. And especially to Wal Gordon - a man amongst men, you have earned such respect for taking a stand, we need to follow your example.
Interesting article about SKILLS - they seem such a bumbling group of individuals, scarily in charge of a huge amount of money. Stephen Joyce made a major F++k up bundling all these ITO's together - it hasn't work for the betterment of industry (well, our industries anyway). The beast is too large to be tamed almost, but then I remember the David and Goliath story....
Merry Christmas to all - the holidays can't come fast enough for me.
-
Hi Jax and fellow readers.
Yes the Federation has done a lot for the industry this year and you have to take your hat off to all those who support Wal and the cause. When you see all the information that is published in the Fellow Practitioner each week it makes you wonder what will happen next. Perhaps there is still a lot more that the industry don't know about.
I remember seeing Wal on the TV a few years ago talking about the Paul Gee case and he said the faces on the Board change but not the attitudes. That stuck with me and as the years go by I think he was right back then and saw it long before us. Jax is right that we all need to step up and help. I think it will be my New Years resolution to get off my backside and help.
-
Well they say Nero fiddled while Rome burned so it is not a new management model.
Just proven to have less than desirable outcomes!
They also say that as in life as in sewerage the good stuff floats to the top.
You get holidays Jax? :D
Enjoy your holidays guys, the way my phone has been going with people wanting stuff done before Christmas i could be flat out for a couple of months! It's the same every year....
-
They also say some organisations are like septic tanks. Green and lush on the top but full of shit under the surface.
You don't have to have a PhD in landslides to know that if you don't have a solid foundation with depth then when pressure is put on the surface it will slip away exposing the poor structure underneath. No matter how much topsoil and manure you put on its not going to stop a landslide.
-
Apparently they have published a policy on "dealing with unreasonable people".......
I should get a copy and apply it to how they fob the industry off with their fingers in their ears going lalalalalala, tell lies, hide evidence, turn a blind eye to blatant evidence, even misrepresent it and then tax us via a charity and frame innocent people......sounds pretty unreasonable to act like that.
Or just another way of coving up for being a dodgy bunch of....er hum Professionals. LOL.
Like a rotten tomato, nice and shiny on the outside but every time you prod it some more shit oozes out......needs blating.
-
As I was driving thru Warkworth, I saw a 20m (approx) line of pexal on a commercial building that was not lagged and had turned white in the sun. Never seen that before. Perhaps if there were auditors checking full time rather than only when a complaint is made, this kind of thing could be corrected without the need for $20k hearing and a 10K fine
-
I saw that policy on the website and can only assume, from the comfort of my arm chair that the policy has been written specifically for the Board's dealings with Paul Gee. I imagine that they are not liking the fact that Paul is not going away quietly, he is not "taking his medicine" from the Board, and he is consistently pointing out inconsistencies in the Board's approach to his case and the charges against him, and the case bought against others and the medicine handed out to them.
This case would need to go down as one of the most shameful in the history of this PGDB. The investigating was shoddy, ill conceived, some might say vindictive, and unprofessional in my opinion. The holes that got shot through it by Wal Gordon and Paul were absolutely gobsmacking. For the Board to lay 44, yes 44 charges and only get a guilty on 2 of them (and I believe Mr Gee is contesting the two he was found guilty on) shows that the Board did not do their homework before deciding to charge Mr Gee and going through with a farce of a hearing.
I believe there have been numerous items of correspondence from Mr Gee to the Board - and when I saw this policy I immediately thought that it had been written with him in mind so there will be a justification on their part now to no longer correspond or involve themselves with him.
I guess only time will tell whether this is true or not when they finally refuse to write back to Mr Gee and cite the policy as the reason.
I wonder if they will apply it internally?
-
I wonder if the shocking administrating of the gas cert system will come under this policy too, how dare we even ask?
-
Sent just now.........
Mr Pederson,
Please by way of an OIA request please may I have a copy of the “dealing with unreasonable people” policy ,and also an answer to my most recent correspondence.
I ask all those copied in why the Board would need such a policy and I ask you to read this policy…….they have ignored a fraud, a life threatening explosion and a central heating system that could potentially kill some one, their own total cock up of administering their own gas cert system…..and the blatant framing of myself for something I did not do……and now they have a policy to legitimise ignoring me.
What happens if someone gets hurt? Will they have a policy to ignore that too?
Best Regards Paul Gee
63 Takaka Valley Highway
Upper Takaka
Takaka 7183
Mobile: 0274 33 33 50
A/H: 03 525 9889
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Paul & Emma Gee [mailto:gasnsolarservices@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, 19 December 2014 9:42 a.m.
To: 'Registrar'; 'communications@pgdb.co.nz'; 'complaints@pgdb.co.nz'
Cc: 'Wal Gordon'; 'Allan Day'; 'Colleen Upton'; 'Lyndon Moffitt'; 'campbelllive@tv3.co.nz'; 'Andrew Little'; 'jacinda.ardern@parliament.govt.nz'; 'Janis Adair'; 'Jude Hutton'
Subject: RE: Letter responding to 26 Nov email
Dear Janis,
Please can you pass this to Mr Ron Patterson and add it to the original complaint I made to the Ombudsman’s office, a complaint that you appear not to have any concern with, fairness for all?
Mr Pederson,
You could have given me this answer, letter attached, the same day I sent my request, but again you have managed to stall, until after Christmas this time, well done.
My OIA request is about your claim of my “varying emails” that you have alluded to in your letter 25th Nov, also attached. Please can I get all copies of these, re-my emails concerning this c/h system.
You mention in this previous letter in your own words, that you can only decline a request because it is either frivolous or vextatious, if it is neither then you must appoint an investigator. Then you go on with no mention of my request being either frivilous nor vextatious.
So, in your own words you must appoint an investigator, and should have back in 2010. You activley promote that people should let the Board know about bad work, this isn’t just bad, it is potentially life threatening.
My information is not totally second hand, some is, but this I believe just adds weight to my complaint as it means other people saw things of concern. You have made no attempts to varify?
I witnessed first hand how he started this installation and he told me what his intentions were, which I was told by the apprentice later happened. What you see as secondhand evidence, I see as a second independent witness.
Ironically, you talk about a schematic not being used, but you make no comment about his comments of “just use poker face and pretend you know what your doing”, when I requested this schematic.
The schematic, attached, is how I believe and have been later told the system has been intalled.
I also believe it is the Board’s duty to determine whether or not the system has been installed in such a dangerous manner, protecting the public is the reason for your charity status, is it not (oh and for tax reasons).
The risk of legionaires disease is very real. I ask you this Max, if this property has one gas cert for only a califont, but has central heating, with no cental heating boiler, then please explain to me how the instantly heated hot water is being heated for both the radiators and the hot water. The plain first hand evidence is there for you to see, if you would but look.
Under an OIA request please can I get a copy of the letters you apparently must have sent to Mr Darnley, re - my many compliants. This you say must be sent under section 90(3) of the act, upon receiving a complaint, from anyone, even me. You should have quite a few of these as I have complained many, many times since 2010 (this is much longer I believe, at least by phone call in any event). Just to be clear I would like a copy of all these letters and all the responces the Board have received in relation to this matter.
You mention that under section 3 of the act you will not be taking any action, especially as the owner wants nothing to do with it (apparently now you have no problem relying on second hand hearsay when it suits you), as it will make it “practically impossible”.
In light of this comment, please can you tell me why section 96 (2) of the act does not apply? This is not a reason to “not” appoint an investigator (a double negative, bad grammer which is something I have become acustomed to in dealing with the Board…. please see the Boards take on impartiallity).
It is an indication of your reluctance to investigate Mr Darnley, who you have also “overlooked” in his blatant involvment in an explosion that nearly killed some one, but you saw fit to make me the scapegoatn for this, for something that I had warned about for many years before the terrible incident……sound familiar Max?
96 Restriction on entry to dwellinghouse
· (1) Despite section 93, an investigator may not enter a dwellinghouse without—
· (a) the consent of the occupier of the dwellinghouse; or
· (b) a warrant issued under subsection (2).
(2) A District Court Judge, on the written application of the investigator, may, by warrant, authorise the investigator to enter a dwellinghouse.
(3) The District Court Judge may authorise the investigator to enter a dwellinghouse under subsection (2)—
· (a) only if the Judge is satisfied that—
· (i) the proposed entry is necessary for the purposes of section 93; and
· (ii) the investigator has taken all reasonable steps to obtain the consent of the occupier to the proposed entry; and
· (b) subject to any conditions that the Judge thinks fit.
I think for the Board to prevent any possible/potential danger to the public would be a condition any judge would think fit……What happens when someone falls ill, or worse Max, it is on your shoulders.
Perhaps Mr Campbell could send one of his reporters to this house and sample the water from the radiators and shower, and take note of how many gas water heating appliances are there at the dwelling and whether there is any central heating radiators coming from the one gas water heater, and whether the hot water is heated instantly when a hot tap is opened, an impossibility if these c/h rads and the water are separated (which they should be to prevent cross-contamination, this is basic 101 central heating).
You appear to be be prepared to gamble with peoples lives. What happens when this unconcerned owner sells this house, and someone unknowingly puts their kids in that shower to bathe?
It is reprehensable that you won’t look at this and you have offered no credable reasons not to. You have mearly used lawyers double speak and stalled, again, and refused to investigate Mr Darnley, again.
-
In my hot water cupboard of dealing with these corrupt twats......I am going to miss my little open vent by email........better go check my TPR when they take away that open vent, and perhaps turn my temp down.....hope my stat don't fail......
-
From the nice people from the tele......
Thank you for contacting Campbell Live.
We do receive a high volume of emails, if your story is of interest to us we will be in touch as soon as we can. It's helpful to have a phone number to contact you on, and please include your original text with that so we have all the information together.
Many thanks,
the Campbell Live Team.
-
hi guys, the board cannot `undo` their illegal rulings of the past! ah but wait they just get the governing minister to change the law to say they can, and they did, bugger is that even legal? cheers
-
Still got some up my sleeve mate....
What every kiwi (not just those tradies affected by these goons) should ask themselves is....... even if this is massive to me and my family (and believe me it is huge), it is mere small fry to the powers that be..... but if they will cover up such corruption and ineptitude over a "relatively" small matter.....what do they do over the big stuff, the world changers?
As a Government, you are not only judged by your actions but also by your inactions and what you are prepared to ignore. Or do we have acceptable levels of corruption and law breaking?
If the law of the land only applies to some (usually the "lower" levels, the least powerful) and not others (usually the ones running the show, and from my experience it is a show), it is a form of control not democracy.
Which is it?
I want to read this policy and apply it to them and their recorded and documented behaviour, with signed correspondence.
Someone else send Campbell live an email, the more the merrier ......... god knows they have a few off me.... just copy and paste off here if you want.
-
The attachments from the correspondence below........
You got to ask why they are so against checking that this house is safe....
-
I have been warning about dodgy certs covering dodgy work since 2002, my boss bought 4 books of certs in my name just after I told him I couldn't work for some one who was clueless and had no concept of safety. Which was understandable because he had no formal training and was given hid full craftsman's ticket, by none other than the same person who the Board later knowingly appointed to be the "impartial" investigator.
I was told by the investigator when I told him about these books of certs mentioned above that "it was common practice" and when I pushed it that "I should make sure I have my own house in order before dobbing my boss in" and that the system "was too big to fail", well Tony my house was in order and the cert system has failed.
The Board then went on to ignore a fraud that was highlighted at my hearing (this was separate to my boss and the explosion, although I believe there were others), a near fatal explosion, altered charges, conflicts of interest, they sent child sexual case notes to my wife, lied about me, wrote all the statements for the witnesses at my hearing (which some said they wouldn't sign, one saying that if she had "seen the photo she never would have signed"), wrote lies in my local paper about my short coming for my ability to position a califont.....then later ignored a califont at another address, which was fitted closer than mine (note:my customer said it was never a problem, the one the Board ignored.. was closer and had been complained about by the owners), there is lots more, lots lots more etc etc.
Whose behaviour is unreasonable? Who should be ignored? Who needs to have articles written about them in their local papers, national papers?
People in other countries are willing to risk their lives and pay with their lives to draw cartoons......where is our press/media....my local paper's head reporter told me that their paper didn't have the resources to warn their own readership about safety concerns about this dire situation, this was after someone nearly died in an explosion and they had no problem repeating the lies the Board had issued over my case.
I have enough on these twats to show them for what they are, it just needs someone to tell the Public at large, they would be gone by dinner.
-
Hello Guests, it is always amazing to watch the "guest" numbers grow, all I ask is a fair hearing on a level playing ground with a truly neutral ref, but most of all done in the public eye, warts and all.
I am sure if anything I have publically said was untrue or liable I would have the board's gaggle of lawyers, that we tradesman pay for, on me like white in rice.
Now guests go look at my many posts on here and have a think about it, I have had my break from this that I promised myself and my wife, now I am back in to it, believe me I will get this sorted.
-
Sent this morning
Sent: Saturday, 10 January 2015 10:49 a.m.
To: 'Paul & Emma Gee'; 'Registrar'; communications@pgdb.co.nz; complaints@pgdb.co.nz
Cc: 'Wal Gordon'; 'Allan Day'; 'Colleen Upton'; 'Lyndon Moffitt'; campbelllive@tv3.co.nz; 'Andrew Little'; jacinda.ardern@parliament.govt.nz; 'Janis Adair'; 'Jude Hutton'
Subject: RE: Letter responding to 26 Nov email
Hi All,
Please do not think this is even remotely over for me, please see my posts under “Badger” on the plumbers forum.
http://www.plumbers.co.nz/forum/fellow-practitioners-update/41/fellow-practitioner-issue-236-dated-12-december-2014/1810/msg9143#msg9143
-
Another sent this evening
Mr Pederson,
Please can you confirm whether the 8th person from the left in the back row, is Peter Jackson the present chair of the Board. The one stood next to John Darnley (my ex boss who the Board have been protecting since an explosion nearly killed someone), Mr Darnley circled on the left and Mr Jackson circled on the right of the back row.
I can positively identify the so called “Impartial” investigator (Tony Hammond) later appointed to persecute me, and two other Board members, one of these Board members (Stephen Parker) later to be the chair of my hearing, the same chair that called a halt to my hearing just as my advocate and I were going to totally clear my name, the last 2 charges out of the 44 trumped up charges. Of note this and other photos contradict Tony Hammond’s signed affidavit re- how well he knew Mr Darnley and how many times he had met John Darnley.
Ironically this was the year, 2006, that the Board received a letter written by Nick Smith MP airing my complaints about dodgy certs covering dodgy work, the later explosion occurring in 2009.
I do not think it frivolous, vexatious or unreasonable to ask this and expect an answer, full disclosure of relationships is a very serious matter and I feel it is reasonable to make this request and I think it is also reasonable to expect an answer, please do not reply that Mr Jackson was not a member of NZIGE, just whether it is him in the photo.
I do how ever think it is unreasonable for my family to lose our home, business and reputation because I was made a scapegoat to cover up the total mismanagement by the Board of the gas safety cert system that ended in an explosion.
-
A history of what happened to my family, from the pages of Parliament, link below.....
http://www.parliament.nz/resource/en-nz/50SCCO_EVI_00DBHOH_BILL10613_1_A228633/41f318cdc17be834a9f590445ffcdc8d878343be
-
just copy and paste the link below to a google search engine.......what would you do? would you let it lie? I won't....
-
FYI GUYS, the policy for dealing with unreasonable behaviour.....
http://www.pgdb.co.nz/~downloads/Dealing%20with%20unreasonable%20behaviour%202014.pdf
As read it they should always act fairly and honestly and in good faith and they should consider the amount of loss inflicted on people....well I have lost a hell of a lot and they have not acted fairly, very far from it and they have lied about me, actually in one event having to apologise for it when they prejudiced all of the witness's for my hearing by inferring that I was capable of acting out side the law, all done before my hearing. See attached. They have issued a lot of letter like this, denying and ignoring blatant proof, all signed too.
Well when they stop talking to me (and they will), it is time to up the ante in the public arena.
-
That's very strange the link below stopped working twice.....and it was part of Parliaments records......how could have that happened?????
Anyway here it is in full sorry about this, its a bit long, but what would you do?
Please take the time to read this, I thank you in advance….
My name is Paul Gee; I am a craftsman/certifying gasfitter and plumber from Nelson/Takaka.
I have tried to warn about dodgy/dangerous work signed off by incomplete/dodgy certificates for 6 years and was ignored by the Plumbers board, all before an explosion nearly killed someone in 2009. Since then a resulting witch-hunt and hearing was inflicted on my family. Because of this, I have had to work away from my young family, for over 18 months. I was made a scapegoat by the very people who I had tried to warn. These same people (the Board) were responsible for empowering my old boss (the person I had tried to warn them about).
Even after expressing my concerns about impartiality, I was ignored to the point that the “Impartial” investigator that I had complained about was overseen by his colleague as chair of my hearing with little to nothing registered in the conflict register. I had letters sent to my customers by the Board that told lies about me, had evidence with held and witnesses added at the last minute and others that wouldn’t sign their own “statements”, child sexual abuse case notes sent to my home address opened by my wife, I lost my business, home, reputation and time with my two young sons and wife.
I have been living in a caravan for many months working away for extended periods and only seeing my family sporadically, I have missed 18 months out of my 5 and 7 year old sons lives……I have done nothing wrong, please read on to see my whole story…….
A Very True Story Every NZ Tradesman Should Read
Back ground History
I complained about the work practices of my old employer, John Darnley, since 2003 and the dodgy certs involved, and many times since 2003. I left his employment at Allgas, after just 10 months. I left because of safety concerns and have repeatedly told any who would listen, including numerous MPs, Master Plumbers, Nelson Mail and industry. The only MP to listen and act was Nick Smith who wrote a letter on my behalf in 2006. Ironically, I also have a photo (amongst other photos) from 2006 the same year. It shows the “impartial” investigator who was later appointed to persecute me, a few Board members and my old boss. It is of a gathering of members of an industry group to which my old boss was a member, aswell as some Board members, the presiding Board member for my hearing and the “impartial” investigator who is actually a fellow of that institute.
One of the main contributing factors to my leaving Allgas was the remark, that a technical specification wasn’t required, I was told by my old boss to “just use poker face and make out you know what you are doing”. This was for a job where the owner has the same hot water in his central heating radiators as to that which comes out of his hot taps and shower, all known to the Board. The final straw was being told to fit an appliance contrary to the very large warning on the box….This shows the attitude I came across at Allgas.
Apparently the Board feels that as John Darnley is retired now, he is no longer a threat. Please bare in mind he worked for well over a decade, empowered with a craftsman ticket (that was granted to him by the “Impartial” investigator some years before after one oral exam, with no training). This licence allowed my old boss to sign off himself aswell as other less “qualified” people. That work is still out there. It was discovered at my hearing that he wasn’t against the signing off of unlicensed people too, who in all probability may be totally untrained at that. The chip shop was about 7 years old when it exploded. Some times it can take some time for all the essential factors to congregate altogether at one point in time, which is the case more often than not.
I was unaware, at the time of making my initial complaints that some of the people to whom I was complaining to, including Board members, were members of the same industry groups as my old boss. The presence of these industry groups on an industry Board, according to the NZ Law commission, is against best practice and the Commission recommends against it because of the impartiality questions it raises.
I must add I am not a stirrer, grass or dobber, but when you see other peoples families put at risk, for profit….what are you meant to do???? I do not want to get someone in trouble for just trying to earn a crust to provide for his or her family. But if you are prepared to earn that crust while putting others at risk, then it is a totally different matter.
A Near Fatal Explosion
Then we had the explosion that nearly killed someone at the Milton St chip shop in April 09 at 9 30 in the morning on a school day, I had been complaining for six years by then. The chip shop was an old butcher’s type, glass fronted building. Where school children queue up in front before school, if the explosion was an hour earlier it could have been so very much worse, the potential still terrifies me.
Still, this incident has ruined at least two family’s lives, mine and Ron Clarke’s, the chip shop owner. I was mortgage free in a very modest house with no debt what so ever, I lost everything. Initially my wife had to live in a caravan while I was forced to work away from her and my two young lads, I now live in the same caravan in a plumbers yard.
Ron and his wife have told me the huge effect it has had on them, not all physical either. It has been a financial, emotional train wreck for both families, I really feel for Ron and the effect it has had, not to mention the fact it nearly killed him.
The Inquisition
I came forward on the day of the explosion and volunteered to be interviewed by Mr Hammond. This was my first mistake. I answered all his concerns, to the point where none of his initial “concerns” made it into the final charges, but he still pursued me and asked for more jobs to be checked, I have a letter from the Board’s representative stating that 3 whole years of my installs were then checked, all the ones still in use.
I asked for an impartiality hearing because I could see where it was heading. Over the years, previous to the explosion, while making my complaints I had been threatened, and could see these people were going to make good on those threats, some high ranking Master Plumbers, I was shocked at this as I was a member and had served as a local president.
I was told by my lawyer and his QC colleague to plead guilty, take it on the chin and open a café. Opening a café was an idea my wife and I had had for her to do when the kids went to school full time. We now live in the very run down building on the site of this “dream”. The Lawyer had to that point cost me over $10 000.
This was where Wal Gordon entered the situation; I really would have been lost at this point and had thought I had explored every opportunity to defend myself……for something I had spent 6 years warning against.
I went to an impartiality hearing that I had requested before the actual hearing, to put forward my concerns about the impartiality of the Board and its appointed investigator. The Board had an opportunity, right there and then, to put a stop to this persecution. I provided photos and membership lists, etc but to no avail.
“They” judged that “they” were impartial…….. how can someone decide whether or not they are impartial? The question alone means you are involved. 3 of the 5 members of the panel, I had complained about, giving them the majority, over seen by Master Plumbers Mark Whitehead and Peter Jackson amongst others.
Licence in a box of cornflakes
To the best of my knowledge Mr Darnley had been granted his full craftsman gas fitters ticket by the very same person who was later appointed as the “impartial” investigator to my case, Mr Darnley did just one oral exam with no formal apprenticeship. Other gasfitters with full apprenticeships served and experience running gasfitting businesses, all be it from other countries, have had to re-sit and start from scratch. Basically reduced to an apprentice on entering the country, it usually amounts to 7 to 10 years of exams and practical assessments, as was my case. It is of note that John Darnley is also originally from the UK, as is Mr Hammond.
The Boards “impartial” investigator, the presiding board member for my hearing and John Darnley were members of the same organisations, industry organisations, along with other Board members, past and present. John Darnley resigned from one of these institutes the very month following the explosion.
It Is OK To Tell Lies.
Before my hearing I was rung by the caretaker of Motueka High school. The Board’s acting registrar, Kern Uren, had sent them a letter (unknown to me up until that point, along with 5 other letters, to my customers ranging from the West Coast, Nelson, Motueka to Havelock, basically the whole of the area I had ever covered with my business) implying I had issued certs illegally in Northland, a place I have never even been to. It was from this point that my business basically disappeared, overnight.
It was later admitted by Mr Uren that these letters could have been “better tailored”, but only did this after months of letting it run, ruining my reputation. Kern Uren also phoned me to “warn” in a manner that I found very upsetting and unnerving, we were at the time corresponding by email, and judging by the content of the phone call not a good idea for him to commit to writing.
Mr Uren then later accused me of being vexatious when I produced copies of gas certs that had writing on them that was absent on the carbon copies. This meant it was added after signature.
Mr Uren also failed to act when shown a letter written to the Board, written in my name. It was sent to alter a gas cert’s address; it was dated 3 months after I had left Allgas. It was not written by me, but it was written on Allgas letter head concerning an Allgas customer. All the gas certs at Allgas were filled in by the office staff, which were never questioned and still are not to this day. The office was manned by John’s Darnley’s wife and daughter.
Relationships
The presiding Board Member for my hearing and the impartial investigator have served together in numerous organisations, sometimes giving presentations together, sometimes running the same industry trusts. A quick Google of Tony Hammond (investigator) and Stephen Parker (presiding Board member at the hearing) proves this. Actually a Google search of all concerned and the word “gas” is hugely informative, along with the industry groups and legal people. If you Google my name and gas you mostly get reference to the explosion, it isn’t helping to repair my reputation, neither are the constant press releases by the Board. I have been quoted as calling my self a “mere plumber”, but no one can find where I said it, in context.
Protecting Their Own Creation
The 2 x “impartial” investigators, Tony Hammond and John DeBernardo, had helped write the NZ gas regs. Mr Hammond was also heavily responsible for deregulating the gas industry, for them to find fault in the gas cert system and gas regs would be like asking a sculptor to pick holes in his biggest and best creation.
The second “impartial” investigator, Mr DeBernardo, another high ranking Master Plumber, even though he billed for a large amount of time and costs, his notes were withheld. I still to this day not know the full extent of what he did or contributed, but he was paid quite a large sum, as was Mr Hammond. Other information was withheld under legal privilege.
Stooping To Any Level
My lowest point, without doubt, was coming home to find my wife sobbing hysterically, literally in pieces, emotionally. She had opened some correspondence from the Boards investigator referencing, very graphically, child sexual abuse. It was marked as past presidents for case law on probabilities, not just one case but three cases all including some sexual deviancy. I would include it, but it really is too sick, you can find it on the “NZ Plumber’s Forum” under posts from “Badger”. I am certain that there are other more palatable past cases to reference, and to send it in a “plain” envelope as it were, for anyone unsuspecting to open is just warped.
These people have done nothing short of terrorising my wife and had a huge effect on my young family….and by anyone’s measure they are undoubtedly totally innocent of anything.
It was sent when she was facing the prospect of having to sell her home and have her husband work away and raise her two lads alone in a caravan for the winter, this then later happened. We have lived in a very run down house (which was once a dream of a café) since. These people do not to care what they do to people and their families or the public for that matter. I am not the only one, far from it. There are literally heaps of unfortunates who have been put in this situation; they are just too nervous to come forward, usually after suffering at the hands of these people.
The “Fair” Trial
The 42 charges that I was found not guilty of were ludicrous. One of the charges was for fitting a califont that wasn’t even manufactured in Japan on the date of when I was supposedly to have installed it, according to the serial number, which is in full view on the side of it, easily seen by any one who wanted to see it.
The other charges were just as bad and the sites only investigated by Mr Hammond after he laid charges. Some of the charges were amended to better fit the facts discovered by Mr Hammond after his………………… re-investigation.
It is an industry perception, openly pushed by the Board, to plead guilty and the Board will only ask for a fine and not costs. They let it be known that the costs usually out way the fine quite substantially. The Board also boast of a 100% conviction rate, which is statistically impossible. Not every single person before them is guilty, but most plead that way to minimise the actual financial cost. All this can be found on their web site.
The Outcome
I was found not guilty of 42 of 44 charges and nothing at the site of the explosion; the last two were for –
Charge 1… The installing of a califont fitted 540mm vertically below an opening window. I have a British standard allows for a 300mm gap (see attached BS regs; pages 42 and 43). I also have an email from a senior building adviser from the Dept of Building and Housing. As I read it is saying I can use British standards, if they are relevant, see below in email to Boards CEO.
The same NZ reg referenced by the Board for a 1500mm gap is to a “passive” opening window. The same table/reg allows a 1000mm gap to an “active” mechanical inlet into the building (which would act like a vacuum cleaner, sucking in the fumes from outside to inside). So according to this same NZ reg you can have something mechanically in sucking air, into a building 500mm nearer than a window that just sits there, passively open.
It specifically mentions a spa blower, which would suck the fumes from outside and literally place them under the nose of the person in the bath. I checked the specification for these fans on a spa blower; they suck by the cubic metre per minuet, they would fill a normal sized bath room in a matter of minutes.
Perhaps this is why a 300mm gap is allowed in the UK and the same NZ reg was amended in May 05 to allow for a horizontal clearance of 500mm to an opening window, down from 1500mm previously.
Charge 2… This was for signing the gas certificate for that address mentioned above. So this last charge would fall over if the positioning of the califont charge fell over, leaving me after a near 3 year battle, after loosing everything……. 100% innocent of any wrong doing, which I still believe I am.
If you were to read the Boards public slating of me, made before my right to appeal, you could be forgiven for thinking I was dodgy and incompetent, as do all my customers apparently as my business is kaput, and you can’t blame them.
It is of note these last charges were the only ones where I admitted to doing all the work and I still stand by the work, in light of the email below and the British Standard reg.
Who do you ask for Advice?
See below the email I sent to the Boards CEO, it includes an email I received from the Dept of Building and Housing, after I asked about using a British Standard reg in NZ. It is of note that the author of the email below from the Dept of Building and Housing shares the same name with a panel member that wrote the NZ gas regs, a list of people appear inside the front cover of NZ 5261. If it is the same person, then I am sure he is qualified to pass comment. The Boards very limiting policy on appeals means I could not produce this email at the appeal either or the British Reg.
It is of note that the UK population and per capita use of gas is massively in excess to that of NZ, and would undoubtedly show any short comings or problems in the application of this British Standard written in the year 2000, pre-dating all this carry on by 3 years at least and is still in use.
I was asked at the hearing by the Board what document I had used to locate the heater and truthfully answered that I had referenced a tech note from another manufacturer. I have learnt over the last 16 years to start a sentence with “back in the UK” gets a lot of kiwis off side and so didn’t mention the British Standard. I really thought a tech note from one of the biggest califont manufactures sufficient. The only other gasfitter present was Scottish and I would have thought this British Standard specifically for a fan forced appliance below an opening window, in all probability would be known to him. His name is Graham Hardy another high ranking Master Plumber.
But as I hadn’t mentioned this British standard or the email allowing its use at the original hearing I could not bring it up at the appeal. The ONLY other gasfitter present in the room and on the hearing’s panel for the Board was Scottish and in all probability had used the very same standard in the UK, as it is dated for the year 2000. A person of the same name as the Scottish gasfitter has since been nominated for a place on the Board of the Master Plumbers.
I concentrated on all the other charges, thinking that a tech note for much larger models would have answered that charge. My mistake was not mentioning the British standard. If I had mentioned it, then the Judge could have considered it, even though it was in all probability known to both sides, i.e. the only gasfitters in the room at the hearing, myself and the Scottish Board member.
Any reasonably minded and experienced gasfitter will tell you a Bosch califont is extremely similar if not identical to a Rinnai one, and a Rheems one for that matter, in performance and design. Also the NZ or BS regs do not differentiate between brands, only appliances. They are the same appliance.
In the face of all this and against all odds we managed to prove my innocence of 95% of these trumped up charges, even when I had had notes and photos withheld and witnesses added two days out from the hearing. At least one withheld photo showed that what I had said for the previous 2 years was true. The forensic investigator for the police had taken over 100 photos; the “impartial” investigator for the Board only showed me about 11 or 12, the ones withheld showed what I had said for nearly 2 years and I only got to see them at the hearing.
Many of the witnesses refused to sign their own witness statements or changed their statements just before or on the stand or refused to show, such was the nature of the evidence.
I believe that I am totally innocent, the British standard proves what I did was safe, as everyone in the UK aren’t keeling over dead when their fan forced flue appliances are fitted with this 300mm clearance to an opening window vertically above. This proves the mandatory part one of the NZ reg was adhered to, the part 2 “breach” I was convicted of is not mandatory, but a form of compliance, again please see email below and the actual reg NZ5261.
Still….. 95% result is a good pass mark, by any standard, in any exam.
Thank you Wal
My advocate Wal Gordon of the NZ Plumbers Federation deserves huge credit, as do all the people who have helped me. He still stuck by me when he was phoned up and threatened to “watch what horses he backed”, this was by a prominent Nelson master plumber, son in law to a life member of Master Plumbers and ex board member. I still think this coward owes Wal an apology, he could have done it in person the night previously, but chose to wait until Wal was leaving the next day….. and did it by phone, spineless. Apart from a few beers forced on him, Wal has received no monetary payment at all and has put in many many hours, not just for me, but for the plumbing industry as a whole.
The Cover up, covered up since 2003
On going concerns, while researching for my hearing and appeal I have discovered that at least 11 certificates, out of only a 150 cert search sample, has the gas leak pressure test results not filled in, and according to an insurance expert this could very possibly nullify people’s house and / or business insurance. The poor sods that have paid good money for services are being let down and deserve to know. These incomplete certs were processed and accepted by the Board, some showing highlight pen on the missing information, I kid you not.
Mr Hammond brought to one of my initial voluntary interviews… black ink photo copies of the certs concerned while I worked at Allgas. They were done on pink paper, this gave the effect that they were true photo copies of the master pink copies….helping mask the multitude of different colour inks all over the certs. I only got to see true copies after a lot of trying. My first request to see them I was told, way back in 2003, there were over 1000 certs in my name and it would cost $25 per cert to get a copy. Then later I was told that the freedom of information act didn’t apply to the Board, and then finally allowed to see them after applying under the privacy act and after the 2009 explosion, which is when I saw all the different colour ink.
I had initially made inquires at the Board about 4 books of gas certs in 2003 and again just recently. These books of certs were ordered and bought in my name with out my permission by Allgas. They were ordered the day after I had told my old boss in no uncertain terms that I was leaving. I was told in writing that they had been returned and correctly filled in, all except 1 cert. I have been told this twice by a Board’s legal representative, by letter. Even though this cert is claimed not to have been received by the Board, this same cert has an electronic copy on the Boards web site, which is impossible if it wasn’t registered. This same cert just so happens to have the gas leak test results missing.
I have also been told in writing that the cert for a pizza oven installed a year after the initial install at the exploding chip shop wasn’t registered at the Board. The Board state that they were made aware of this 9 days after the explosion, yet again a missed opportunity to stop persecuting me. But this claimed to be unregistered cert according to the Board also has an electronic copy and the carbon copies that I have seen also have the gas pressure leak test results missing.
Legally, if the test results aren’t filled in then “legally” the install hasn’t been tested for leaks, it potentially nullifies the cert and in doing so can nullify the owners insurance and I should imagine building consents and council paper work. The expert from the Insurance overseers says this is of concern also.
According to Mr Uren and Mr Hammond, it is common practice to have someone order, pay for, fill out, sell and register certs in your name. This is OK’d by these people of responsibility, even though these legal documents, the certs, are marked “non transferable”.
A Reasonable Request
I ask you to warn the public to check their certs and contact the Board if they have any concerns. The Board have definitely been aware of this for quite a few months, may be much much longer. To the best of my knowledge they have not acted or notified anyone. 11 certs out of the 150 I asked for is a huge %, and include certs stated as being filled in correctly by a Board legal representative and include certs that are from the batch ordered in my name, with out my permission….and with the blessing of Mr Hammond and Mr Uren.
The Board want to charge me money to check this situation further. I have had quotes for $1000’s of dollars to check and police their own faulty system, faulty with their full knowledge. But it appears they are not prepared to do this themselves and act in the best interest for the public to whom they have been registered to protect as a charity…..yes a charity, a status now lost to the chagrin of Mr Bickers who will now have to charge more because he lost his tax loop hole . I have shown them a hell of a lot of information and evidence to warrant concern, but as far as I know they have done nothing. The people of Nelson, perhaps NZ, deserve so much more.
As the Board lost their charity status, they publically claimed that it would cost plumbers more now that they had lost their method of tax avoidance, unbelievable I know.
I was told by the CEO of the Board that the electronic copy of the gas certs on the Boards website was a representation of the original “paper” copy, the paper copy being the legal copy and that the Board kept these original paper copies indefinitely, but then I was told that they could not locate many of the paper copies I had requested. Some certs were “rediscovered” when I told them I had photos of carbon copies of 15 certs that I had obtained from the gas suppliers, some of which had test results missing. Some paper certs are still not available from the Board.
This electronic system for recording certs reportedly cost a large sum of money; I have been told 100’s of 1000’s of dollars but can’t verify this. So too, a $90 000 Christmas trip to Melbourne for the Board which included their partners, nice work if you can get it, if it is true. Ultimately, all paid for by the NZ public. Also Kern Uren has his son and son’s father in law working at the Board’s secretariat, the one position had about 200 applications for the job. Perhaps someone with a bit more pull than me could ask?
I have neither the will nor the resources to police and investigate this faulty system. The Board’s website for gas certs now carries a recently added disclaimer and the “print” button has been removed, the disclaimer says that the electronic copy may not represent the paper copy, but it ran for many years without this disclaimer and had a print button. The whole industry and the public have been misrepresented by this state of affairs. For example, people who have used this public source of official information to print off certs, incorrect ones, while selling a house, have relied on incorrect and false information, provided by the very authority entrusted to hold and protect that information. And also you have the problem with the insurance. I believe the public have a right to know this, and apparently the Board aren’t addressing it.
It is of note that the only certs that don't carry a disclaimer are the ones filled in by the gasfitters them selves, and have no paper copies and the Board don't hold any “signed” copies of these, which according to the Act, they should. They are now proposing that they don't have to hold any copies, at all. That'll work I’m sure.
Dodgy Work
Also ask the readers of this letter to contact someone, me, anyone, if the room their gas appliance is in has a blackening of the walls, this and many more potential death traps I have come across in my work in Nelson, but if you fix it no one wants to know. I went to one property that had blackened walls and told the customer I would have disconnect it, his reply was not to disconnect the fire, as his 6 year old daughter loved the fire and went out like a light on the settee, he was poisoning her without knowing. Authorities only want to know if it is “immediately” dangerous…. even “potentially” dangerous isn’t investigated and no one wants to know about it. If you find this unbelievable, as I do, check the publications by the authorities, utter madness.
You are not to smell raw un-burnt gas, it is not ok. I have had people report a smell of gas, “because it has smelt for weeks”. Every appliance should be serviced at least every two years, usually annually and in a commercial situation every 6 to 3 months. Some appliances can give a small smell of gas upon light up or when you get your bottles filled, but on the whole you should not be able to smell raw un-burnt gas, ever.
There is more to this fiasco but, believe it or not, I am trying to condense it to the main points, but it has gone on for many years. It has consumed my life, ruined my business and put a huge strain on my wife's stress levels. I can see people glaze over when I start to talk about it because there is so much; it really requires a public enquiry, please before we have another incident.
I just want my life back; my only real mistake was trying to protect the public (I had nothing to gain by trying to warn about all this, believe it or not my business was going along great and I didn’t need the work)……. by telling the very people who were responsible for empowering the man who was causing me so much concern, and still does. Please don’t let it take a worse incident to get a truly independent inquiry.
I have been asked by a Board member, amongst others… why I just don’t leave NZ, one real easy answer……. I bloody love it here, and my kids are kiwis and so are me and my wife.... all of us NZ citizens…….…I ain’t going nowhere, why should I. The NZ public deserve so much more and a small few are spoiling it for others, just to line their pockets and get a power trip at the expense of others. Their actions show their intent.
Yours Sincerely Paul Gee
Please see below correspondence with Board CEO and the Dept of Building and Housing……..
from: Paul & Emma Gee [mailto:gasnsolarservices@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, 22 March 2012 6:24 p.m.
To: 'Max Pedersen'
Cc: 'Wal Gordon'; 'Allan Day'; 'closeup@tvnz.co.nz'; 'Jehan Casinader'
Subject: Paul Gee
Max,
Please can you tell me where and when I might be able to do the course that is my punishment for using a British Standard for the positioning of a califont, and when must I do this by.
Also please can you let me know if I can use the attached British Standard, especially page 42 and 43, in light of an email below.
It is very confusing, please can you clarify, thank you.
Paul and Emma,
Please find below a brief overview of gasfitting in New Zealand.
“Gasfitting” is a defined term in the Plumbers Gasfitters and Drainlayers Act 2006
In order to do gasfitting you have to be licensed by the Plumbers Gasfitters and Drainlayers Board
Gas work (gasfitting) must comply with the Gas Regulations and be certified by the gasfitter as complying with NZS 5261: 2003, part 1 which is the Performance based design and installation criteria
Part 2 of NZS 5261 gives one way of complying with Part 1, but other ways of complying with part 1 can be used. Relevant Australian or British standards may be used if the gasfitter can demonstrate compliance with NZS 5261, Part1
As I understand it this differs from the UK where home owners are able to do their own gas work.
Other sources of information can be obtained from the Energy Safety Service (www.ess.govt.nz) and the Plumbers, Gasfitters and Drainlayers Board (www.pgdb.co.nz)
Please telephone if you wish to discuss
Kind regards
Bruce
Bruce Klein
Senior Advisor Building Standards
Department of Building and Housing
Te Tari Kaupapa Whare
DDI: (04) 8174812
Level 6, 86 Customhouse Quay
PO Box 10729, Wellington 6143, New Zealand
Web: http://www.dbh.govt.nz
-
Believe it or not there is much much more to this, as this was written quite a few years ago, they have done even more since.....
who is being unreasonable??
-
From the "history" below.....
I have also been told in writing that the cert for a pizza oven installed a year after the initial install at the exploding chip shop wasn’t registered at the Board. The Board state that they were made aware of this 9 days after the explosion, yet again a missed opportunity to stop persecuting me. But this claimed to be unregistered cert according to the Board also has an electronic copy and the carbon copies that I have seen also have the gas pressure leak test results missing.
Guess who "didn't register" this cert......known 9 days after the explosion......yep you guessed it Mr Darnley.
It is probably what Maurice Williamson was on about when he wrongly (and had to retract it in Parliament), said about the dire explosion at a certain Pizza retailer.......just days later he gave his big "gay rainbow" speech.
-
Now bear in mind that no one has been found responsible for the explosion(right up to today), even though over $200 000 was spent and Darnley faced a charge for the explosion, but it miraculously disappeared with no trial, and all the evidence pointed to either him or someone at Allgas, but the Board ignored it or didn't bother to ask the staff at Allgas. I got all the signed correspondence about this too!!!! Issued by our old mate Max Pederson.
According to the Board's own words and signed correspondence.....
The last person to work at the site of the explosion, this same person altering the start, middle and end of the install (with over 100 photos withheld from me until the hearing), with all copies of the gas cert missing pressure test results.......and didn't register the cert for this work(even though there is a corresponding cert with the same cert number on the boards now defunct register......you guessed it.....Mr Darnley.....who may be stood next to Mr Jackson in the photo below.....
With the one bogus charge left a bullshit one at that.....
AND I AM UNREASONABLE FOR NOT WEARING THIS AND LOSING MY HOME AND BUSINESS.......REALLY?????
-
I ask you this.................... how can anyone be sure of a fair go by these people..........perhaps those who face these corrupts could cite my case before going through the motions with these people.
If the credibility and integrity of the process is flawed then you can't reply on it, not until it is fixed, and you can't fix a problem until you address it and own it.
Now don't get me wrong, I don't want dodgy guys getting away with anything...... Jesus I tried to get it looked at to protect the public....but I also KNOW you can't rely on them for a fair hearing.......and I definitely don't want to see anyone who is innocent go through this, like what they put my family through.
So if your innocent, only if your innocent......mention my case, and say you can't rely on a fair and unbiased hearing.
Instead of using past presidents on probabilities and using child sexual abuse case notes just like the Board did with me.....use my case as a president to prove the lack of integrity.
-
And here a reply from the Ombudsman.......Fairness for all......except if your a plumber......
-
There is a lot of discretion being used...I mean the Board used their discretion in ignoring evidence and setting me up and the investigator used his discretion in ignoring how well he knew Darnley.
Just needs publicity, because these people wouldn't do this if Joe public knew, like I said be gone by lunch time....what have I got to do to get a fair go?
Anyone know a good lawyer who would work pro bono?
-
How can some one face a charge then have it disappear, in Mr Pederson's own words, see attached.
-
Can someone explain to me how this is considered reasonable behaviour?, even legal?
-
Now is it reasonable for the Board to have been aware just days after the explosion, that the cert for the work that changed the cylinder station and an added an extra appliance half way along the install, not to mention the altering of the other end of the install (as proven by the with held photos, by the board) and the sale of a third hose for two fryers.....as the first hose split, the same one that caused the explosion, was replaced (after I left)?
Explosion happened April 09, look at the dates in an email below.....cert 345138 is for the last work at the site of an explosion that nearly killed someone, the same last work that was also missing the leak test results....also see attached the double speak from Mr Pederson concerning this cert 345138....now both certs mentioned were entered on the same day but are over a year apart in signature?....WTF?
From: Melanie Phillips [mailto:melanie@pgdb.co.nz]
Sent: Wednesday, 11 May 2011 4:13 p.m.
To: Paul & Emma Gee
Cc: Wal Gordon
Subject: RE: Paul Gee
Hi Paul
Please see attached Belinda’s file note of her request to John Darnley for a copy of certificate 345138. This occurred after she was contacted by lawyers acting for the owner on 17 April 2009 requesting copies of all gas certificates relating to 136 Milton Street.
Also attached is a copy of the certificate received which, as you will see, is of quite poor quality.
Please let me know if you need any more information.
Regards
Mel
From: Melanie Phillips[mailto:melanie@pgdb.co.nz]
Sent: Wednesday, 11 May 2011 3:22p.m.
To: Paul & Emma Gee; WalGordon
Subject: RE: Paul Gee
Hi Paul
I have just gone back through the file and can confirm that the Board never received a pink copy of certificate345138. The only copy the Board has is a photocopy of the certifier’s copy, which you produced as exhibit PG007 together with a copy of the gas suppliers copy.
I see notes from Belinda Greer on the file that the Board copy of certificate 345138 was received after the explosion in 2009, I think from the Department of Labour.
I’m sorry I can’t help you further.
Regards
Mel
-
Just read 4.57 from the attachment below.....is this reasonable?
They knew just days after an explosion, that the last person who worked at the site of an explosion "didn't register" the cert and was in all probability responsible for altering the end, the middle and beginning of the install, even replacing the hose that later caused the explosion, he even faced a charge for the explosion........but it never made his final hearing.
This same guy...got given his licence by the Board's appointed investigator after one oral exam.....is this reasonable.....
Read the Board's own policy on "dealing with unreasonable people".....now apply it to them.....
EVERY SINGLE ONE OF YOU SHOULD REALISE THAT THIS COULD BE ANYONE OF YOU, EVEN THOSE WHO "THINK" THEY ARE CONNECTED, I WAS A PRESIDENT OF MY LOCAL MASTER PLUMBERS.
-
Now I personally think this smacks of corruption.....what do you think?
-
Remember the Board ignoring an elderly couples complaints about fumes entering their home because of a califont installed closer than the one that I fitted issuing into an enclosed area, the one I fitted having no complaints and issuing into a large unenclosed back yard.....
Now apply this attachment and their take on my actions, then compare it to their actions.....sorry inactions.
I am far from finished with this little issue.....got a way to prove that I have done NOTHING wrong......just holding on to this for now.
-
Now apply the reasoning on this attachment to the "non registration" of the cert for the last work at the site of an explosion.
All copies of this cert including the one issued to the owner that nearly died in the explosion, were signed........but not registered.....or more likely registered but when they noticed they had excepted an incomplete cert for the site of a near fatal explosion, missing of all things the bloody "gas leak test".
How can the Board say the only evidence that they received the cert is that the thing was entered into its system, with the same cert number, same appliances and same address and dates.....d you need any more f****ing evidence.....
Sorry I swore, and am being unreasonable in not assuming the position and accepting this....which I will never do
-
.....here's yet another ignored problem......at an address, where the Board were accusing me of installing cylinders on a deck, which I did not do.
Whilst going through this charge I proved that someone had manipulated the cert system, this was proven way beyond a shadow of a doubt, by billing and the serial number on the califont......so when the Board became aware of this....... they did absolutely nothing, even up to this day as far as I know, the only letter sent to the address was the letter that is mentioned in my other post, which was sent before my hearing this letter was the one that prejudiced all the witness's. The Board only found out at my hearing.....so did nothing when they found out....is that reasonable?
-
Here is how the charges panned out for the Board, I have the attachments and have just copied and pasted something I wrote a while ago.
-
They doubled up the charges at each address to make all up 44 charges, these were laid and I answered 42 charges. Being found 95% innocent of any wrong doing is a very good result, but if this other 5% of charges were “up-held” (and were aided to be up-held by the investigators mate chairing the hearing, who then stopped the hearing just as we were questioning the investigator specifically about this very 5% of the charges). And it was all done as a last grasp at keeping a 100% conviction rate (openly boasted about), and done to save face and justify a $220 000.00 price tag, with still no one held accountable for a near fatal explosion….. Well it is reprehensible and a true reflection of the arrogance and the lows these people will stoop to protect their ego's, positions, salaries and reputations.
Please before you read this summary of charges below, please read and bear in mind these points and then the 3 documents listed below and attached.
• Nearly 50% of the charges were amended at the last minute, application for amendments made on 1/2/11, the hearing on the 3/5/11, after over 2 years of investigation.
• Evidence, photos and notes were withheld and misrepresented.
• Huge conflicts of interest ignored and witnesses added just days out from hearing.
• Mr Bickers, the soon to be Board Chair (now left) was on the panel for my hearing and he witnessed what I am about to tell you about in these charges first hand. Of note Mr Bickers runs a course called the “Role of the Processional Witness”, specifically about a hearings procedure and its goal of achieving a proper and fair outcome.
Doc 1. Mr Bickers further sullying of my reputation in my local news paper, just days after the hearing. See attachment B1, (B1).
Doc 2. The so called “apology” from the Board, signed by Mr Bickers. This letter referred to in the apology, in my opinion, prejudiced all additional sites prior to my hearing, all sites other than the site of the explosion, with a very “un”- truth, implying that I was capable of acting in an unlawful manner. It was sent to areas spanning my whole business history, with the Mot high school, right in the middle, which I believe was no mistake.(B2).
Doc 3. All or at the very least 3 years of my work was audited, this is evidenced by the time gap in the investigation and also a letter from a Board lawyer and a comment on an MPs letter, but the investigator states only 10 % was audited. (B3 & 4)
See below for the Charges and how they were dis-proven. I ask you will this “justice” help our country, industry or protect the public. I kept my licenses, but lost my reputation, home and business, and now nearly 50% of licences are being uplifted for this year, almost half tradesman not bothering.
Please note, it is not an exhaustive list of proof and concerns, and I have tried to be brief.........
Milton Street chipshop.
1. This is the site of the explosion that started this whole affair. I proved that the initial install of pipe work had in all probability been altered along its entire length from how I had originally installed it. I installed a “pre-pipe” under instruction from my then boss John Darnley. All evidence for the person responsible for these alterations I believe pointing to Darnley or someone under his direction, but he was never asked about it.
2. The bayonets were lowered, as evidenced by the withheld photos showing screw holes of previous position and the pipe falling from the corner of the room to the position of the Bayonets which is contrary to all the other “audit” photos of my work. These withheld photos were taken by the forensic expert, these photos only became apparent to me at the hearing, but were available to the investigator very early on and reaffirmed what I had maintained for two years. Over 120 photos were taken with only about 11 made available.
3. I had completed my involvement with the installation on the 15th, as evidenced by the date of the leak test date (of note the 15 of this test date being in a different colour ink to the rest of the cert, and not in my hand), but the offending fryers were delivered on 24th . (B5 & 6)
4. There was a pizza oven installed half way along, one year later. The cert for the pizza oven being the one that wasn't registered by Darnley, as per the Board. This “pizza” cert lacked any information entered into the gas leak test field on all available copies (all copies available are totally in Darnley’s name). The Board were aware of this “non” registration, just 9 days after the explosion. Of note there appears a copy of this cert on the PG&DB electronic register, a total impossibility if not registered. (B7 & 8)
5. Three hoses were sold for two fryers, the offending hose had split so near to completion of the job that it was part of the original invoicing. But when the owner told the investigator, he told him it didn't interest him, Mr Clark told me this. (B9)
6. The cylinder station/bottle bank had been altered to feed off both gas cylinders simultaneously, in all probability to accommodate the added extra load of the pizza oven. This is evidenced by the fittings sold and invoiced for in the initial billing and the different fittings present in the photo's taken just after the explosion.(B10 & 11)
7. Not one part of my initial install went unaltered, from the start at the cylinder station, the middle where the pizza oven was installed, to the end where the bayonets were lowered (not by me) with the fryers added (not by me) after my initial “pre pipe” job.
8. It appears to me that the bayonets were lowered to allow the fryers to sit further back to the wall, as the fryers have a cavity underneath, and this lowering and turning of the fitting was why the hoses failed after pinching against the floor. And probably would have been done when the fryers were installed, not by me. My involvement is also evidenced by the job card, showing no fryers, and with the words “install bayonets and test”, in my hand. (B12). The entry for the fryers on the front of this Job card, not in my hand, but same as the hand writing on the certificate . All this known to the investigator very early on when I told him in my voluntary interviews, in all probability when he had the withheld photos.
9. The comment that the sheath had been cut away from the hoses, again not by me.(B13)
10. Still to this day one has been held accountable for this explosion, with all, if not most, of this referenced evidence available to the investigator. (B14)
Main Rd, Havelock
1. Even though the investigator had said to me at interview that the site had been unaltered since my initial install of a fryer in 15th Jul 03,(the appliance at the focus of the charge), there were a further two certs issued for this site. Both these certs 629404 and 623527 were for work in the kitchen, with one dated 4th Sept and 29th Jan both in 09.
2. The audit being done on 3rd Sept 09 (C1). The cert date for 629404 was the day after the audit. The work signed off in this cert 629404 for 4th Sept is considerable and would not be done in a day and would involve moving all my work.
3. Of note the hand writing of the word “fryer” on this Allgas job sheet is identical to the word “fryer” on the Milton Allgas Job sheet and the appliance is drawn in, which isn’t drawn in the Milton St job sheet. Of note this would probably have been written by an office worker who passed out the work, but no one from the office was interviewed. (C 2, 3 &4)
4. The work in these certs, in all probability, would have involved moving my original install, but I was unable to check because all work had been removed when I had the gone there to check after I had the charges laid.
5. All this information of certified work would have been available to the investigator if he had done a cert check on the address, which I think he should have before making any comments about it being unchanged or pressing any charges. In all probability the work was either still in progress or very recently completed.
Greenwood St Motueka
1. I had installed the water heater and gas cylinder station, but the cooker was installed at a later date and added to the certificate, not by me. But in saying this, the kitchen wasn't there when the cooker was installed and the customer stated his friend had removed the restraining chain on the cooker (the basis for the original charges), when this was pointed out to the inspector he requested and was granted for the charges to be amended to focus on the pipe in the wall and not the clearances to the worktop and the absence of a restraining chain. (D1)
2. Then at the hearing the owner said on testifying, he remembered someone else coming back to fit the cooker. (D2)
3. The blue carbon copy shows a differing of pressure on the carbon sheet for the line written for the cooker and when taken into account the other certs with writing present on the pink master copy, but absent on the carbon copies and other alteration (all available to the Board prior and dismissed as vexatious by Kern Uren (D 3 & 4, also see H.B. 9), I believe the cooker was added after my initial install to both the site and the certificate.
4. Someone else at Allgas had no problem acting in my name, as evidenced in the letter issued in my name to alter a cert, 3 months after I had left (H.B.5), ironically this letter has “never seen this or authorised it”, written across the top of it in my hand writing, done when I became aware of it.
5. Basically if I was found not guilty of installing the cooker, who did? The Board did not pursue this either.
6. I was told, by Darnley, from day one to fill out a job sheet, the office staff would then take the info from the job sheet to fill out the certs, for me to then sign.
7. I was told by Darnley that they would file the copies and register with the Board. It was the biggest mistake of my career, if not my life. I trusted them to do what they had said. When I handed back the certs signed and with all 4 copies still together, the 3 carbon copies still attached to the master copy, with no handwriting of my own, only my signature, I had made the gravest judgment and regret it to this day. I believed the company would do as they said. From my time of leaving Darnley’s employment, I spent the next 6 years trying to warn about dodgy certs covering dodgy work, up until the explosion nearly killed someone.
8. I know of another contractor who had a similar experience, when he notified the Board, HE was audited!!!,
8 Ball Unit Motueka High School
1. Another set of charges amended just prior to the hearing. (D1) Amended to better fit after I had told the investigator that I did not know the cage was to be fitted, the cage that was fitted not allowing enough ventilation, which was the basis for these charges.
2. When the charge was amended to “I should have known it was to be fitted” because of the exposure to cars, I showed an aerial photograph that proved the car park had been altered considerably since the original install, which led to the witness, brought in just days out from the hearing, to exclaim that had she seen this aerial photo she would never had signed the statement. (E1).
3. This photo graph was obtained by me from the Tasman District Council and proved beyond doubt what I had told the investigator.
4. Of note the witness statement was prepared by the investigators lawyer after he had in his own words, briefed the witness, also of note is some of the other witnesses refused to sign their “own” statements.
Dommett St Westport
1. The letter from the owner reflects the attitude of the investigator, and is quite damning about the investigators behaviour. (F1)
2. But regardless of the window being secured, I still believe it to have been safe even with the window being open; the charges were for the clearance to the opening window to the flue of the water heater. (F 2, 3 &4)
Powick St Westport
1. This is one of the charges that concern me the most, other than the site of the explosion, not because of the persecution of my self.....but the total inaction after the hearing. (and yet another set of charges amended to better fit just before hearing)
2. I was charged with placing cylinders on a deck, as I was the last person there, which I was not.
3. This charge is quite complex, but can be boiled down to just one set of facts and invoices. Ignoring the reasoning offered by the investigator as it is nonsensical because the unit wasn't even manufactured when he says it was installed (as evidenced by the serial number on the side of the unit) and the original cert, not issued by myself.
4. The set of facts are born out by invoicing from the local Caltex who sold all the water heaters involved.(G1) 3 units, with only 2 being accounted for in the certs.
5. This invoicing shows that, initially, a 24 ltr model was sold and fitted on the 26/7/2001 as collaborated by the cert 207367 issued at that time (not by me) and this Caltex invoicing (G1 & 2)
6. But then 9/10/2001, some two months later, the 24ltr was returned and a 32 ltr sold, replacing the unit insitu, but with no other cert issued for this new 32 ltr unit.(G2)
7. Then further 24ltr unit sold 14/1/05, 6 months after my visit mentioned below, which corresponds to the serial number on the unit on site, but makes the first original cert for a 24ltr unit redundant, I believe this was when the gas cylinders were placed on the deck. (G1)
8. Now bear in mind that I was brought in only to relocate the 32ltr unit and not move any cylinders, on the 20/7/04 (6 months before the second unit was sold, mentioned in point 7 above), as is backed by my invoice, job sheet and cert 319000, marked as alteration only.(G3 & 4)
9. My concern is that, as with the explosion at Milton Street and the adding of a cooker at Greenwood St, no one has thought to pursue this potential fraud and find anyone accountable for this substandard work and manipulation of certs.
Malvern Ave, Nelson
1. This is the one and only site where charges were found to be substantiated; of note it is also the only site to where I freely admitted to all work and certification. The charges were for clearance to an opening window from a power flued water heater.
2. I believe this was the charge that they held on to just to keep their 100% conviction rate boasting rights and their attempt of justifying a $220 000.00 prosecution cost.
3. I drew a diagram of how I knew the fumes to act, blown away from the building some 3 metres before rising (H 1)
4. Please see also available at the hearing –
• My 2 x diagrams from the Hearing (H 1).
• Photo of the “offending” heater (H 2)
• Rinnai Doc (H3)
• Statement of owner, saying no fumes entering the building (H4)
• Hammonds comment if the fumes were not entering it was safe(H5)
• Contradictory nature of table 16, with amendments. (H6)
• Numerous statements from NZ 5261, stating the use of overseas regs and the non mandatory and mandatory sections.(H7)
Of Note this is the charge that the Chair (Mr Hammond’s long time colleague) stepped in and called the hearing to a close, it is the one last remaining charge and the sole reason for further sullying my name and still to this day with the Board’s website inferring that it is me that is incompetent.
And since the hearing….. None of which was allowed to be adduced at high court (although the Investigator applied and was allowed to adduce a document giving weight to the Board’s “expertise”), I was restricted by Board policy, but this below further proves it was safe-
• British Standard, known to me but not mentioned at my hearing (H8)
• Hardy’s British history, being the only certifying gasfitter at my hearing and on the panel for the Board at my hearing (H9)
• Email from co-author of NZ 5261 (H10)
• Emails of explanation of other gasfitters. (H11)
• Email from the owner, after my hearing. (H12)
1. If it is safe, it is safe and I still, to this day, believe this job was safe, I offered far more proof of this safe operation at the hearing, the only evidence offered by the investigator was the amended table 16 from NZ5261, which is contradictory in application, re- spa blowers and amendments.
2. NZ5261 was co-authored by the investigator, and he would in all probability, not want it to fail.
3. If this charge had not been held to have substance then I would have been 100% innocent. I think it wrong that you are guilty until proven innocent.
As well as the 3 points I asked you to read above before reading the charges, points 3.1 to 3.3 under heading “Summary of Charges”, please also bear in mind-
• I did an “assessment” and not the, proscribed by the Board, “course of instruction” as my punishment and I was found to be in the top 10% ever assessed by the Board appointed assessor. Out of principle I did this with no preparation, revision or study.
• I had also for 6 years before the explosion warned about dodgy work being covered by dodgy certs.....warning against none other than Darnley, the man who was empowered by the “impartial” investigator, Tony Hammond, after just one oral exam.
• It was Hammond who was appointed impartial investigator to attend a hearing overseen by his very well known colleague Stephen Parker Executive Director of GANZ, who he presented seminars with under the GANZ banner, as a technical adviser to GANZ and nominated by GANZ to co-author NZ5261 and organising the Kennedy Trust together with Parker.
• Hammond AND Parker being appointed AFTER my protests to Hammond’s impartiality at a stay of proceedings hearing. The old excuse, that a small plumbing community is bound to have people who know each other…..which is an insult to capabilities of the other 4 million kiwis.
• I have been told that Darnley was a member of numerous gas industry groups, as is Hammond and Parker. Darnley, Parker and Hammond are members of NZIGE, Darnley “resigning” just weeks after the explosion.
• Hammond having a very long history in NZIGE, which is an arm of IPENZ, and he also previously served on the PG&D Board for 15 years.
• Mr Bickers has a long history in IPENZ. These long histories of both men are similar in length of time and the standing/position achieved in their respective Institute in that time as members.
The worst part about this, apart from the very destructive and stressful effects on my family, it emboldens those with “contacts” to thumb their nose at the safety and responsibility entrusted them. This will not help the industry or protect the public going forward.
-
Now please take the time to read all this and apply the "dealing with unreasonable people"........yes I totally agree the Board are unreasonable, please explain why we should deal with them? why we should pay a hefty fee to deal with them?
Don't you think the people responsible for this bullshit needs a bit of CPD and some licence restrictions?
Or do they deserve to rort money from us and not pay tax as they are a charity......they don't seem very charitable......charity case yes......
Or perhaps a clean slate......answers on a post card to Dr Nick Smith MP.....
This could be anyone of you, believe me they will have polished their act by now, and not for fairness or the better either......
-
hi badger. you've got lots of guests today. hope they all brought a plate! ;D
-
Now add to this all the sterling work the Plumber's Federation has done proving all that they have......chip in anyone because I only know my case for sure, list it all here......
How much crap do we need to put up with.....
They even (totally out of order) blamed the UK plumbers for the horrendous foot and mouth disease out break in the UK......tossers.....
-
LOL Gordy.....
Come on in people pull up a pew.....have I got a story for you.....Once upon a time there was an out of control Ogre who lived on the Terrace, he was mean and greedy....and he liked to dine on plumbers......
-
21 guests, that's a record
-
Hi guys,Badger,read all the posts a lot we have known for some time, I'm,sure justice can be gained but what is to be done. You have a lot of support so what can we as a collective group do to nail these turkeys, cheers and good luck.
-
Publicity, publicity, publicity.......if the greater general public knew, not just how I was shafted, but the way they choose who to shaft at the risk to the public's health and safety.
An incident will happen if all the ducks line up, if you have the right mixture of gas and a source of ignition.....its going to blow up, whether your mate sits on the Board or not.
I know of and have told the Board about a central heating job that has the potential to kill, they play on words and double speak not to look at it.....if I was in their position I would be around there in a shot, but they don't.....it is to gamble with peoples lives to not go look at this, this is reprehensible.
Guys it all about numbers, numbers firstly to get the media to look at it (so that's us contacting a TV show), then when the general public know.....they will be gone by lunchtime.
That or a full page spread in a national news paper, letting people know the basic FACTS, then direct them to a website with the details. I don't think they would even make lunch time.
Its about numbers and votes......if you think its is about truth and righteousness, then you're going to have a long wait until you get the exposure.
If you play them behind closed doors, on their pitch with their ref, they will contain you and flannel you.
We can PROVE and have Proven their huge short comings, but the ministers who can fix this do nothing, why? ........because they got more chance getting voted in if they contain it and say, "nothing to see here".....well there is heaps to see, we just got to show as many people as we can.
-
I am pretty sure if all the people who read this contacted a show like Campbell live or something similar, then someone would pick it up, if more people came forward with their stories about these goons, someone would pick it up.
If the general public knew that the reason a plumber/gasfitter/drainlayer/ and soon to be builders, etc are so expensive is because of the costs incurred on us, the reason that there aren't as many (leaving those who remain to have a small monopoly) as there once was, because they are being shafted, while others are protected.....they would be up in arms.
It is so wrong to let these people do what they do, so very wrong. The thing is they can't survive in full sunlight, in the public eye they would embarrass themselves, can you imagine Mr Pederson repeating the bullshit mentioned below concerning the "missing cert"......
"Well Mr Campbell the only evidence that we had received the cert at the site of the explosion was that it was entered on our system, I can even tell you the date, but you see we can't find it, so we could never have had it, it wasn't registered"....."Well Mr Pederson that sounds like bullshit and I think someone put it in the shredder"
-
hi guys, Badger, we/you would have to drag these people into court to answer charges because the board or others will not be interviewed by tv3 Campbell Live, they will just ignore and close ranks. Legal advice would be a good start put all that evidence to a good lawyer and see what he comes up with, those are my thoughts so maybe others will have better advice,cheers
-
I am more than happy to, if we can source a lawyer count me in, I'll travel up, I have tried but you mention pro bono and they loose interest, money talks mate and I got cleaned out, I have only my bare hands left to use....
I reckon we could pick a top ten, and I don't mean just mine, but all of it...the RRC, CPD, all that, any others who have a horror story like mine, look at all the amazing work the Feds have done, proven them all wrong so many times.
Perhaps, just something to consider.......they got Al Capone on tax evasion, perhaps the total witch-hunt they put on me could be used, I am more than willing to join in.
-
I still do think it would be enough to get it on Campbell live, their "not fronting up" would speak volumes mate, I still believe whole heartedly if the public knew what I KNOW, they would be up in arms.
Publicity would be just the start, then go to court....
-
Well I just heard Nick Smith vow to lower housing costs.....a house price now in Auckland is higher that L.A. I am sure the Feds can show you a few ways mate...
Anyway back the "thorough investigation".....well according to Max Pederson anyway, and as everyone (Ombudsman, MPs) points to his opinion in a 33 page report (excerpt below on the ludicrous opinion on the "non registration of a cert at an explosion)......here is some more ignored blatant evidence.....
This letter was sent by Allgas, all in the full knowledge of the investigator and the Board, I left in the December before, this was sent the following March....it shows a willingness by Allgas to act in my name, to change the details on a cert.....
Properly investigated my arse....
-
I got this letter from the Board when I finally got, after many attempts to get copies of the certs.....I immediately told them it was not mine....I got a letter back saying I was being vexatious... f****in right I am vexed...fuming actually, but I didn't say it to stir trouble I said it to bring a fact to your attention, to show you blatant evidence....you bunch of cocks.
-
remember cert 299760, mentioned in Mr Pederson's 33 page report, the one where he says that they can't locate this cert as well as the explosion cert....
Well heres a copy of a photo of the suppliers copy.....taken at the suppliers......notice the accepted cert has no test results......(shredder alert)
-
oops sorry that's the electrical cert copy from the Boards website.....notice the cert has no leak test results......
When I brought this to their attention, they added the disclaimer(read again about responsibility regarding certs)
-
actually there were several certs that they couldn't find, check out their lack of test results......now remember they were ACCEPTED by the Board.......and it is us that need CPD....cocks.
This one is a backpackers where you might send your kids on a holiday, there were about 11 like this I only asked to see 150, not a good test selection, but Maxy boy reckons there is no problem because their selection ,the ones they picked randomly (lol) showed nothing of concern...what a crock of shite....
-
They couldn't find 11 out of the 150 that I requested......which was really helpful because it highlighted to me which ones to photograph at the suppliers......have a guess what they were all missing......go on have a guess......
But it is me who has no comprehension about the importance of the cert system......I got copies of more which have the missing info highlighted with vivid.....still accepted, by highlighted.....
Now you wonder why they have lost the cert system.....
I got heaps of shit like this, but I am the one living in a run down house with no business.....slagged off in my local paper......now lets look at that "dealing with unreasonable people" policy again...hmmm ?????
-
Apparently the Ombudsman has no problem with this......remind me why we have an Ombudsman again, is it containment or fairness....
-
How can Allgas sent letters in your name when you no longer work there. Isn't that fraudulent activity? Why didn't they simply alert the Board to the error in address under their own name, saying they were the company that did the work? I do not understand why they would so something so silly as to sign the letter with your name when you were clearly not there?
Also I do not understand how these certificates are valid without the test results. Any other gasfitter working on these properties cannot be sure that they were left legally safe at the end of the job given that no test results were filled in. How can these have gotten through the system? So simply the Board are a repository for Gas Certificates, not the safeguarders of the public? I accept that probably they do sampling, but if your assertions are correct, and I have no reason to believe they aren't then 11 out of 150 seems an unacceptably high number of a portion of certificates that have no test results, and I would think warranted a further look at the work at these addresses, simply to see what else might have been "forgotten".
I also would be concerned about a company that fraudulently produced a document in the name of someone that no longer worked there, no matter how innocuous the contents. It does not speak well of them and their business practices.
-
Tip of the ice burg Jax...I have many many copies that have been accepted, probably why the investigator turned up with photo copies done on pink paper to hide the multitude of different colour pens used with different inks.....
Now here's one for you, look at the names on these certs and correlate the cert numbers, you'll find the cert numbers are the same, but let me direct you to the fitters and certifiers names.......
-
Here's some more, look at the license number that is started then crossed out.....I an told me they did to him what they did to me, when he told the Board....they audited Ian......
-
And some more, now add to the fact that they loose convenient paper originals....how safe do you all feel relying on this bullshit????
I got heaps of these, perhaps this is what Routhan took with him as insurance? and probably why they took the system off the Board, now pick a side you can have the truth and integrity or a cover up and incompetent ineptitude with a dash of corruption....
Oh and by the way the certs that have my name on below are from the four books of certs ordered in my name when I told him to shove his job, been complaining about this since 2002.....do they really think I am going to give up after 13 years and what I been through.....cocks.
-
Now how do you see the missing cert for the explosion people? with no test results?
How would these goons look to the lawyer for the chipshop owner when he asked for ALL copies of certs for the site where some one nearly died?
Now how do you feel about the reasons for the government taking the cert system off these dicks?
-
Now bearing in mind that they have ignored an elderly couples complaint about a califont fitted nearer than the one they did me for (which I contest and believe I can disprove, using evidence from hearing) and the shambles of their administering the cert system, (see below for a tiny fraction of the evidence that I have to show the shambles).....
Here's a comment from the Board in my local newspaper, released before I could appeal, (the investigators lawyer tried to block that appeal too), they still can't show me where I said I was a "mere plumber"
PRESS RELEASE | 12 July 2011
A Nelson gasfitter has been found guilty of professional shortcomings and unacceptable conduct. The Board has found that Paul Gee breached the Plumbers, Gasfitters and Drainlayers Act when he carried out gasfitting work on a house in Malvern Avenue, Nelson.Mr Gee incorrectly installed a gas water heater by not allowing sufficient clearance between it and an openable window. It was installed by Mr Gee too close to an openable window, which created a risk that products of combustion and carbon monoxide could have entered into the house.
The Plumbers, Gasfitters and Drainlayers Board decided the case against Mr Gee in relation to work carried out on six other properties in the Tasman Bay and Westport areas including the Milton Street takeaways shop in Nelson was not established. The takeaways was the scene of an explosion in April 2009.The cause was found to be a gas leak, which developed at the rear of two gas fires.
The case against Mr Gee was not established at properties at Main Road, Havelock, Greenwood Street, Motueka, Pah Street at Motueka High School, Dommett Street, Westport and Powick Street, Westport.
For the charge Mr Gee was found guilty of, the tribunal said: “Mr Gee is not a mere plumber as he referred to himself, but an experienced gasfitter. For a practitioner of Mr Gee’s status, these applied professional shortcomings are seen as being very serious and his conduct unacceptable.”
In considering the charge, the Board noted Mr Gee’s lack of appreciation of process, objectives and accountability when signing gas certification certificates and certifying gas installations.
The Board also said there was a demonstrated lack of understanding about the reasons for maintaining adequate clearances between instantaneous gas water heating appliances and openable windows and the risk that carbon monoxide presents.
The Department of Labour laid a complaint with the PGDB about the Milton Street matter and the PGDB undertook its own investigation. As a consequence, a further six properties were also identified as potentially posing a risk to the health and safety of the public.
The Board deals with the competency of gasfitters and any disciplinary actions that arise from that. For compensation, any affected parties need to lodge a civil claim with the courts.
The Board will now arrange a meeting between the parties to decide on penalties, after which time Mr Gee will have the right of appeal.
-
They are delusional....look at the hypocrisy......from below.....
In considering the charge, the Board noted Mr Gee’s lack of appreciation of process, objectives and accountability when signing gas certification certificates and certifying gas installations.
The Board also said there was a demonstrated lack of understanding about the reasons for maintaining adequate clearances between instantaneous gas water heating appliances and openable windows and the risk that carbon monoxide presents.
LOL they couldn't even do data entry right......and I have professional short comings........good luck guys in relying on this system if any of your previous work has an incident or kills someone (even if it is not your fault)......
-
Hi guys, mate I have fixed a window shut only to discover that a painter had removed the fixing so as to paint then not refined it shut. I discovered this while at the property doing something else, this could easily have happened to you did you chech it.? cheers
-
I've done a revised press release for a laugh.....this is a joke (based on the bullshit below)....
PRESS RELEASE | 21 Jan 2015
The Board has been found guilty of professional shortcomings and unacceptable conduct. Paul Gee found the Board had breached the Plumbers, Gasfitters and Drainlayers Act when they ignored gasfitting work on a house of an elderly couple, They ignored an incorrectly installed a gas water heater ignoring insufficient clearance between it and an openable window. It was ignored yet it was too close to an openable window, which created a risk that products of combustion and carbon monoxide could have entered into the house.
For the charge the Board was found guilty of, the kangaroo court said: “The Board is not a mere plumber's board, as they referred to themself, but made up of an experienced gasfitter and plumbers. For these practitioner's of the Board's status, these applied professional shortcomings are seen as being very serious and his conduct unacceptable.”
In considering the charge, Mr Gee’s thought that the Board showed a lack of appreciation of process, objectives and accountability when accepting and registering gas certification certificates and certifying gas installations.
The Board also had demonstrated a lack of understanding about the reasons for maintaining adequate clearances between instantaneous gas water heating appliances and openable windows and the risk that carbon monoxide presents.
The Department of Labour laid a complaint with the PGDB about the Milton Street matter and the PGDB undertook its own slanted investigation, ignoring blatant facts and evidence. As a consequence, a further six properties were also identified as potentially posing a risk to the health and safety of the public. But no one was held accountable, and still haven't.
The Board deals with the competency of gasfitters and any disciplinary actions that arise from that, when it suits them and only for those who aren't their mates. For compensation, any affected parties need to lodge a civil claim with the courts. (oh I feckin will)
The Board will now arrange a meeting between the parties, to party in Melbourne, with partners, to decide on penalties, after which time Mr Gee will have the right of appeal. LOL
This is a joke and was written by applying their own words to themselves, (No Board's were harmed in the making of this joke)
-
Hi Robbo, missed your post in my haste, just working on something and I will answer it all together and hopefully by then the Board might have answered who is in the photo below and my other requests, that is they don't deem me unreasonable in the mean time, hope you all have a great weekend, be happy.
We live in the best country in the world, working as a very important part of the machinery that greases the wheels of our culture, they really could not do poo's with out us, we just need to take it back and make it all make sense, openly and transparently for the greater good.....isn't that reasonable?
-
Here's a copy of the "impartial" investigators affidavit where he signs a legal document to say he only has limited knowledge of Mr Darnley......
The other three photos I have seem to make this legal document inaccurate, some may say that he lied? These are dated 2005 and 2006....have read of the affidavit......do you think you'll get a fair go with these goons.
I have a lot of this evidence, but no one wants to acknowledge it, even the Ombudsman, is it fairness for everyone.....?
-
The explosion happened in April 09, here's a copy of the NZIGE newsletter, dated May 09....where Darnley resigns.....hmmmm funny that.
I wonder if we asked Mr Darnley why he resigned.....what would be his reply?
-
Isn't it a worry that a person who, by Mr Hammond's own affidavit, was given his full certifying/craftsman status by means of one oral exam....was also allowed to make out he was an engineer, a member of a prestigious engineering group, as well as other gas groups, I was told by Darnley he was a member of the LPGA too.
But then Mr Hammond was given his craftsman status with no apprenticeship as well.....these people must have some contacts eh?
-
Now back to the horrendous administration of OUR cert system, now bear in mind the master copies were unobtainable from the Board, until I photographed these suppliers copies, then they miraculously re appeared, notice the missing test results and my favourite the twink.
-
I'll give you a "for instance"....
Now you'll probably be told that the Board don't administer the system any more, but you need to understand that they still have the records and what ever was in play at the time of the install will be brought up at your hearing, down to the date of the regs in play at the time.....
Imagine, you install an appliance, and you sign it off....the customer decides he wants it on the other side of the room and moves it.....it blows up.....you got no photos and the person responsible for the moving of the appliance isn't about to own up.....but they got your name on the paper work.....can you rely on the system or the people running the system?
Assume the position.....
-
Here is Max's take on pressure testing a supply and documenting it.....the WTF is my comment, please see attachment........
This is what happens when you have non tradesman, look after tradesman.....its all about the paper work to these people, they are not interested in preventing a problem, just making sure they have a name to pin it on if it goes a wry.....
it isn't an ambulance at the bottom of the cliff it is a hearse....
-
Has this Board any credibility?
Now if it was just me, then ok, but look at all the things the Feds have proven them wrong, so very wrong on!, but its ok we'll change the law!
It is a joke, sadly a joke on us, that we pay for and finance, that they pay no tax on! because they are a charity.....its embarrassing.
-
Something that has bothered me for a while now, it is the predetermined, almost willed, outcome of a hearing.....but if it don't go the way they want it, they just stop? Is this reasonable? Is it safe? Has a duty of care been observed?
For example, if the police go after someone and it comes out at the trial that the guy on the stand didn't do it.......do they just leave it at that?
No one has been held responsible for an explosion where someone nearly died, with all the evidence, especially the evidence at the hearing (although it was with held by the investigator, until the hearing) points to someone at Allgas, in all probability Darnley, you remember the guy who faced a charge but it disappeared....is this reasonable?
-
Have a read of the transcript of my kangaroo court, it is long, but there is some humour in there and you can have a look at what you might expect from these people.
-
here's my letter to the Ombudsman
Apparently all this below appears to be fair according to the Ombudsman.....
Dear Mr Donnelly,
Thank you for your letter dated 3rd Sept 2013, reference # 310809.
I disagree with the Board’s own findings, on their own impartiality, which is an oxy-moron of a sentence if nothing else. How can they ask themselves, the very people involved, if they are impartial and then issue their own findings on their own impartiality? It is nonsense.
It is of note they then went on to make my actual hearing even less impartial, all done with scant regard for these initial concerns that I openly tried to raise.
They have gone to great lengths to cover up and protect their cronies, their own reputations and the reputations of the organisations that they have invested so much of their time and effort in, sometimes investing a life time in.
I thank you Mr Donnelly for this opportunity to clarify.
In reply to your first question………
As you are aware, the “impartiality” hearing was held on the 22nd Feb 2011, it was held in the face of a motion to dismiss and personal statements by myself and by Wal Gordon and an objection made on the 3rd of Feb 2011. (Please see attachments 1 to 4).
A memo was sent by the investigator in response of this motion to dismiss. I find this memo a strange and confusing submission. Strange and confusing, because it was made by someone who I had already complained about, specifically about his impartiality and involvement. If a serious conflict of interest is present, as I believe it is, then this investigator’s memo is an attempt to sway the Board. To sway the Board in the investigator’s own favour, urging the Board to dismiss my complaints about his own impartiality, which apparently the Board listened to. Of note, Mr Hammond specifically opposes the Ombudsman’s office looking into this matter in this memo to the Board. (Please see attachment 5 i ).
I was told to allow three days for this hearing on the 22nd Feb, but it took just two hours. I was left stranded in Wellington for three days. I had booked flights and could not change them. (Please see attachment 5 ii for dates and attachment 6 for the hearing’s duration).
We were told, by the legal assessor for the Board, Mr Corkill QC, right at the beginning of the impartiality hearing that “we're not having oral evidence in the course of this hearing” this prevented any cross examination by me or my advocate Wal Gordon, we could not voice any opinions or disagreements. This can be found on page 8 line 21 of the attached transcript. (Please see attachment 6).
It is of note that this hearing was held to find whether the people involved were impartial, but several people were later replaced when it came to the actual hearing. One of these people included Mr Bickers. Whom I believe had an even greater potential conflict, which I will address below. Mr Bickers was then, and still is, the Chairman of the PGD Board.
I believe this replacement of people, people who had been by the Board deemed to be impartial; to then be replaced by others even less impartial makes this impartiality hearing null and void, redundant…. and a bit of a farce, as was my actual hearing.
There is a statement read out at the outset of this impartiality hearing by the Board that deserves some scrutiny.
The statement I refer to begins on page 5 line 5 of the transcript (Please see attachment 6). It addresses Mr Parkers “impartiality” and omits a lot of very relevant and pertinent facts. Of note Mr Parker was later made Chair of my actual hearing and had “the” leading influence of this later hearing. This all done in the face of my complaints and concerns.
This statement, made by the chair of this hearing, states that Mr Parker is a member of NZIGE and that he has no relationship with Mr Darnley, but is contradicted as he appears in at least two of the three photos with Mr Darnley at NZIGE seminars, the last photo isn’t quite clear. Ironically the photo taken in 2006 is the year my letter of concern/complaint was sent to the Board on my behalf by Nick Smith (please see attachment 7).
Other Board members and Mr Hammond appear in this 2006 photo and the 2 other photos, contradicting statements in Mr Hammond’s affidavit Doc 13 in attachments, (please see attachment 8 for photos).
It also states that Mr Parker’s relationship with Mr Hammond is only on a professional basis, when Mr Hammond was a “contractor” from “time to time” with the Gas Assoc, this is hugely misleading.
This statement fails to include that Mr Parker has conducted many presentations/seminars, together both representing several different gas groups as a duo with Mr Hammond, with Mr Hammond usually fulfilling a “technical advisor” role.
Both have run the “Kennedy trust” which appears to be closely involved with GANZ. Mr Hammond actually chairing the trust.
Mr Hammond was very involved with GANZ, not just as a contractor, Mr Hammond actually serving as Mr Parker’s technical adviser at GANZ while both of them were on the secretariat, Mr Parker being the secretary and the Executive Director of GANZ.
In fact ironically in a PGDB newsletter on Page 2, (please see attachment 9 vi). In a Board member profile, “Stephen Parker, Executive Director of the Gas Association of New Zealand since 1998” (and I am guessing that someone just don’t walk into a position as important as a Executive Director and in all probability worked his way up to that position for many years). This official PGDB publication is, very ironically dated for March 2009, the month before the explosion.
And in ever increasing irony, in this same issue on page 8 Mr Hammond also appears, again in a technical advisory role, on the importance of certification, certification of all things the …..
“Extensions, additions and replacements to existing gas installations. Alterations that result in repositioning of pipework or changes to the operation of the installation”.
I now ask you to consider the fact that Mr Hammond and the Board ignored the “non registration” of the “pizza oven cert”, a non registration that still managed to find its way into the Board’s electronic cert register (how this occurred defies any reasonable scenario, other than the Board accepted an incomplete cert, that later blew up), with all known copies lacking the leak test results AT THE SITE OF AN EXPLOSION! ….with Mr Darnley apparently not even questioned about this nor charged over this non registration, the Board being aware 9 days after the explosion of this “non registration”, but decided to go after me.
Also the fact that the Board and Mr Hammond ignored that the hose that caused the explosion was a replacement, replaced a year after the initial installation, as proven by the invoicing by Allgas, for a third hose (this invoice actually part of the evidence at my later hearing). Of note this hose was sold to the chipshop owner long after I left Mr Darnley’s employment. This is the very hose that ruptured and caused the explosion, as told to me by the owner of the chipshop. The owner told me that he told Mr Hammond about this, but Mr Hammond was not interested. And Mr Darnley was never asked about it or accused of any connection, as far as I know.
This is the “pizza oven cert” mentioned in my initial complaint to your office. Please consider this non registration in light of this official Board release, above, by Mr Hammond. And I also ask you to wonder why this was never chased up by the Board or Mr Hammond? Why doesn’t Mr Hammond’s “tech note”, made in an official PGDB newsletter above, apply to Mr Darnley?
Attachment 9 vii is a NZIGE Newsletter dated 2005. It shows a presentation by Mr Hammond and Mr Parker representing GANZ. Ironically with Mr Darnley shown in the photo, all three being members of NZIGE, along with several Board members. What would a fair minded lay observer think of this and it’s potential for a huge conflict of interest? This all made available to the Board, but dismissed by the Board, with Mr Parker then appointed to chair my hearing in light of all this. (Please see attachments 9 i to 9 vii).
In any case, by the Boards own statement in its own findings for this impartiality hearing that a professional relationship is a conflict, this is found on page 9 of the Board’s findings (please see attachment 10). This I believe would also apply to Mr Darnley being given his full craftsman ticket after just one oral exam, held by Mr Hammond.
I have reason to believe that there are also connections with the NZ LPG Assoc, and this is where Mr Darnley may have potentially met Mr Hammond, as he was a gas salesman, running a business selling gas, i.e. Allgas, a company specialising in LPG gas supply at the time, there being no Natural Gas in the South Island.
Mr Hammond’s relationship with both Mr Parker and Mr Bickers is a “professional” relationship and has an “apparent” bias if the Board’s own findings and arguments/past presidents are used from this findings document by the Board.
This same document is actually based on perceived impartiality and makes frequent use of the term a “fair minded lay observer” and how they might reasonably apprehend that the decision maker would bring an impartial mind to the resolution of the question. I have told many, many lay people my story and they are, without exception, of the same opinion as me about the blatant partiality of the people concerned.
Mr Hammond was a president of GANZ for a two year term in 1993 please see an excerpt from a “deregulation paper” below, which says that way back in 1994 he had already been involved in GANZ for 12 years.
I ask this, would Mr Parker who appears to have a long history of working along side Mr Hammond for many years within several gas groups, with Mr Hammond acting as a technical advisor to Mr Parker at GANZ…..well would Mr Parker put more weight in Mr Hammond’s opinion than that of anyone else? Did he put more weight in Mr Hammond’s opinion at my later hearing? I believe he did……What would a fair minded lay observer think?
Also a question of what a fair minded lay observer might think of a potential professional, perhaps even personal relationship is between Mr Bickers and Mr Hammond. I think this is very relevant.
What would a fair minded lay observer think of Mr Bickers being a president of IPENZ in 1991 and Mr Hammond being president of NZIGE in 1991? These two organisations “collaborating”, with IPENZ providing NZIGE its admin services and NZIGE being a technical arm of IPENZ (please see attachment 11). Both organisations even sharing the same PO Box number……. Is it fair to think that Mr Hammond and Mr Bickers would know each other? Seeming able to put an “apparent” bias and conflict before the integrity of the hearing. What would a fair minded lay observer think?
Perhaps a better question would be….. How could they not know each other and not have a relationship, both personal and professional?
Also Mr Bickers served on the standards council between 1993 and 1997, please see below. Mr Hammond claims to have worked on Standards in NZ for 12 years the 1994 deregulation paper please see excerpt below and attached.
Mr Hammond making this statement in 1994, a definite one year over lap with Mr Bickers, with potentially a 4 year relationship overlap as Mr Hammond continued on to be heavily involved with NZ Standards, right up to the present day.
Mr Hammond actually, amongst many other NZ Standards, co-authoring and actually Chairing the Standards Committee for NZ5261 (yet another conflict of interest as he would not want this to be shown wanting, which I believe the standard NZ 5261 is, as it is contradictory, particularly the table 16 which is the very table so strictly adhered to by Mr Hammond and the Board in substantiating my remaining 2 charges out of the initial 44 charges).
Incidentally Mr Hammond received an award for his work done on NZ Standards from, amazingly and quite ironically IPENZ (please see attachment 12).
What would a fair minded lay observer think about the potential relationship between Mr Bickers and Mr Hammond?
Public Statements attributable to Mr Bickers below, please bear in mind that the usual Modus Operandi for both these institutions (IPENZ and NZIGE) is for the previous years President to be involved with the meetings and AGMs -
Mr Alan Bickers (chairperson)
Mr Bickers is currently a Director of Catalyst Management Services offering management consultation services to public and private sector clients. He holds a Bachelor of Engineering (Civil) and is a Chartered Professional Engineer. He is an Associate of the Arbitrators and Mediators Institute NZ and a Justice of the Peace.
Mr Bickers has worked for four local authorities with the last position as Chief Executive of Tauranga City/District Council (1987-1995). Mr Bickers has served on the Standards Council of NZ (1993-1997), Bay of Plenty Health Board and on the board of Transit NZ (1997-2004) with the last three and a half years as Chair. He has spent the last two decades involved with the Institution of Professional Engineers NZ (including President 1991-1992) and is current chair of their Disciplinary Committee. Mr Bickers has been appointed for a three-year term.
Alan Bickers
Professional Commitment Award 1997
Alan Bickers was President of IPENZ in 1991 choosing The Engineer in the Community as the theme for his year as President. Alan was indeed beginning the process of encouraging the Institution to be more outward looking. Alan left the position of chief executive of the Tauranga District Council during 1995 and his newly established consultancy in management services is now experiencing strong demand. Alan is Chair of the Disciplinary Committee and in this role he provided valuable guidance in a recent significant revision of the Disciplinary Regulations. The Waikato Bay of Plenty Branch had no difficulty in convincing the Awards Committee that Alan Bickers is a most worthy recipient for the IPENZ Professional Commitment Award in 1997.
36. From Mr Hammond’s affidavit, (please see attachment 13).
1. From a deregulation paper actually lobbying for deregulation and the gas self certification system on behalf of GANZ, written by Mr Hammond in 1994, (please see attachment 14).
37. How would a person who lobbied for deregulation look if the self certification system failed, resulting in an explosion? Mr Hammond for this reason alone is not impartial. How would a fair minded lay observer view this? Please can I urge you to read fully both attachments 13 and 14.
In this “deregulation” document Mr Hammond talks of the importance of training in the gas industry, and yet issues Mr Darnley his full craftsman licence after just one oral exam, why did he do this. Mr Darnley being one of only ten people he granted licenses to in this way, this is as per Mr Hammond’s own affidavit.
Please think of it in the light of others who are made to jump through hoops and crawl over broken glass for this same licence. Why was Mr Darnley different from the hundreds, if not thousands, of people denied a craftsman licence? I have had to, as have many others (I have met them), endure rigorous retraining, sitting written exams and proving my practical ability. This took me many years, and I was a time served City and Guilds Gas Service Engineer.
Please see licence numbers for IPENZ, below.
17998
Bickers, Alan Dist FIPENZ
Waikato-Bay of Plenty - Tauranga
46920
Hammond, Anthony MIPENZ
Wellington
If IPENZ membership numbers run sequentially then Mr Hammond and Mr Bickers have been members of this same group of people for decades, well over 30 years, Mr Hammond claiming to have joined in 1977 with Mr Bickers number issued some considerable time before even that.
It appears they have been members sharing the same ranks and accolades of their closely related/collaborating respective institutions for over 3 decades, longer than my whole 25 year career.
Mr Bickers recently stated at a meeting in Wellington that he did not know Mr Hammond as there were over 10 000 members, but I must ask of these 10 000 members, how many members would share all these facts, time and common ground, proof of which is readily available on the internet?
I believe Mr Bickers should have removed himself from the hearing as he was not deemed by the Board to be impartial at this initial impartial hearing, and then went on to ignore these conflicts, above, by attending my actual hearing.
Mr Bickers should be very informed and aware about all the protocol and procedure as he runs an up-skilling course on “the role of the professional witness” and chairs disciplinary panels.
Another bone of contention and a potential cause for apparent bias are the IPENZ rules, which can be taken as NZIGE rules also, that encourage members to protect other members reputations and that of IPENZ/NZIGE, (please see attachment 15). From the rules, Upholding the reputation of the Institution and its members, this rule would apply to all concerned.
So, I believe, we have an unfair and very partial situation, where a fair minded lay observer could be justified for having concerns about impartiality because Mr Hammond, who of note is also a past PGD Board Chairman to boot, and a co-author of NZ5261, and a lobbyer for deregulation and the failed self cert system, and a high ranking member of NZIGE, IPENZ, GASA, GANZ (past 2 year president of GANZ), and working extensively within the NZ standards committee and chairing the Kennedy trust, and also being the very person who empowered Mr Darnley (another NZIGE member) with a craftsman license, after just one oral exam and no formal training of an apprenticeship.
Would he have his reputation (and potentially any organisation’s reputation he was a member of) tarnished.
I believe his reputation would be tarnished, if his license granting to an untrained member of a gas engineers group came out after a gas explosion nearly killed someone, at a site where the self certing system (lobbied for by Mr Hammond) was found to be wanting and badly administered by the Board, so badly administered that it required a disclaimer on its electronic register, see below.
Disclaimer: The details as they appear here are not necessarily an accurate reflection of the details on the original hardcopy certificate. For this reason, should you wish to obtain a copy of this certificate, please complete the form on the previous page or email gascerts@pgdb.co.nz for more info.
This self certification system lobbied for by Mr Hammond and Mr Hammond is the person who empowered Mr Darnley, who in all probability was responsible for the explosion, or knew who was responsible. Did Mr Hammond have a reason to protect Mr Darnley, to make me the scape goat…..I believe he did.
Both Mr Hammond and Mr Bickers have served as chair on the Standards Committee.
A fair minded lay observer could also be forgiven for thinking that Mr Hammond would be assisted in protecting his reputation and that of IPENZ and NZIGE by the Chair of the Board Mr Bickers, also high ranking member of IPENZ and on the Standards committee for 4 years. And assisted, even more so, by Mr Parker, the Chairman of my actual hearing and an IPENZ-via his NZIGE membership, GASA, GANZ, Kennedy trust member…..Could they be influenced by the IPENZ rules to protect another member’s reputation and that of the many institutions that they were all members of. I believe they could. What would a fair minded lay observer think?
I have good reason to believe that these “gas” people, including Mr Darnley, are connected by yet further groups but lack the resources to confirm…… and this is why a proper investigation is required, preferably done on oath.
Mr Bickers publically slated me and my ability in my local paper, this was done before my appeal, and solely on the basis of the Board enforcing a non mandatory section of the NZ5261, in effect making it mandatory. This further undermining my credibility, both in the industry and in my area.
The Board also audited 2 jobs of most, if not all, gasfitters in my area at the time, telling them it was because of complaints I had made about the standard of gasfitting in my area. I had only ever complained about Mr Darnley. This action made me a pariah in my industry and in my area.
I believe a fair minded lay observer could be forgiven for thinking all the above was done to cover up a badly administered gas “safety” register of certs. With a site, with an incomplete gas certificate, EXPLODING!. Something that I had tried to warn about for 6 years previous to the explosion, i.e. dodgy certs covering dodgy work.
I was put through a procedure where both the “leading influences” i.e. Board Chair and Hearing Chair were potentially very conflicted and were prepared to ignore those potential conflicts, all done against my open concerns and complaints.
In light of all this I believe that the “test of egregious behaviour” mentioned on page 7, point 30 of the Board’s 3rd March findings, (please see attachment 20)….is now satisfied.
This is probably why the NZ Law Commission says that-
5.36, a difficulty arises here in that occupational regulatory and disciplinary bodies are often funded by the relevant industry, which may adversely affect perceptions of their independence. However, this funding is necessary. We suggest that it may be acceptable for these bodies to be funded through mechanisms such as licensing fees and industry levies provided that they are independent from industry associations and other purely industry groups, and that other mechanisms are in place to safeguard their independence. For example, in its recent review of the real estate agents act 1976, the Ministry of Justice suggested that the body responsible for licensing and disciplinary matters ought to be “independent from the industry,” meaning that the real estate institute of New Zealand should not be able to exercise control over it. This body would be constituted as a separate body that would be required to report annually to Parliament. Finally, it was seen as important for public perceptions of independence that the Minister of Justice should appoint members, rather than the industry appointing the members.337 We note that these recommendations arose in a context of public concern about the real estate industry. However, we suggest that the underlying principles reflect a wider trend towards greater independence for occupational bodies, and that the recommendations can be considered as an example of best practice in any event. (Please see attachment 16 for the full document).
As Board members Mr Bickers and Mr Parker are not time served tradesmen and fall in to the category of “lay persons” as Board members, the application of the “small community” argument (mentioned on page 10 of the Board’s 3rd March findings, please see attachment 20) shouldn’t be relevant because, in light of the NZ Law Commission recommendations they should not be there.
Their absence would allow their places to be filled with actual impartial lay people from the general population, all 5 million people that share these fair islands of New Zealand. It is an insult to each and every one of these kiwis, to think that within this large population, of over 5,000,000 people, there is no one capable to preside on this situation, other than these connected and entangled people.
Page 14 of the Board’s findings 3rd March 2011, please see attachment 20, state that the letters sent were not part of the “investigative/disciplinary process” (which begs the question, why were they sent and on what basis?) and that they would not prejudice a fair hearing. This is contrary to the findings of Helen Cull QC, and is also reflected in the apology from the Board signed by Mr Bickers that these letters “could have wrongly given your customers the impression that you were involved in unlawful behaviour in other parts of the country”.
What this “apology” does not include is that these were sent to all sites of the charges laid for my hearing, all sites other than the site of the explosion. (Please see attachment 17). This I believe was an attempt to prejudice all the sites of 6 other charges. To make people think that I was capable of being involved in unlawful behaviour in other parts of the country.
I apologise for having no legal representative/council (although a complete stranger (at the start of this fiasco) Wal Gordon has done an outstanding job for me for no monetary payment, for no other reason than his need to see fair play), but I have been left in a position of not being financially in a position to pay for a lawyer.
Of note the lawyer I did use at the beginning of this witch hunt (someone I paid well over $10,000.00 to) advised me just before I stopped using his services before the hearing, to plead guilty to all charges and pay a $50 000.00 dollar fine. This advice for the charges which I later proved at the hearing that I was innocent of any wrong doing on 95% of the 44 charges, and I believe 100% innocent of any wrong doing whatsoever, especially if the hearing was allowed to proceed. The Hearing being stopped by none other than Mr Parker.
These last charges 2 out of the 44 laid, that were “found to have substance” by the Board was an attempt, I believe, as a last ditch attempt to save some claim to credibility and justify the huge cost to persecute and frame me.
Of note, a concern about cost is mentioned in Mr Hammond’s initial memo to the Board, (please see attachment 4i).
The Board, on advice from the “impartial” investigator, basically enforced a non mandatory section of the NZ 5261, disallowing a valid alternative. The hearing being drawn to a close just as my advocate, Wal Gordon, was attempting to clarify if any wrong doing had actually occurred, we both still believe these last charges are bogus.
It is of note that at the hearing, presided over by Mr Parker, the “Impartial” investigator had just stated that if nothing was entering the building then no offence had occurred and that he did not know that any fumes had entered the building as he had not carried out any tests, the owner of this house previously stating that fumes were not a problem, it was at this point that the hearing was shut down by Mr Parker the chair of my hearing. (Please see the last pages of the hearing transcript already provided).
This cutting short our opportunity to answer the last of the charges, the only charges “found to have substance” by the Board. The rest of the charges answered so well that they were dismissed, including the charge for the exploding chip shop which was proven by, amongst other proof, photos that Mr Hammond with held for two years, and still goes with no one held accountable to this very day.
Also see the request to amend charges. Amended to make the charges better fit the statements. Done just two weeks out from the hearing after re-investigating the sites. Of note, these statements were either reneged on at the hearing or were refused signature by the “witnesses”. What would a fair minded lay person think of a witness (or the method applied to gather these witnesses’s statement) that he/she refuses to sign their own statements? (Please see attachment 18).
In reply to your second question…….
I have looked high and low for the transcript of the High Court appeal, but sadly can’t find it. I am happy for you to obtain a copy of the transcript, if that service is available to your office; it is case number CIV 2011- 485-2407. Of note, my right of appeal was opposed by the investigator’s lawyer.
I distinctly remember I was told by Justice Kos that I was to talk about the measurement of the distance of the window only, he was very clear about this, and that I was not to adduce any further evidence, preventing me from airing my concerns about impartiality.
I remember the investigator’s lawyer requesting to adduce that the Board should be given weight to their opinion as they were “professional”, I think this was allowed.
Justice Kos was in receipt of the statement that I was trying to adduce, including the British Standard that proved I had done nothing wrong, (please see attachment 19).
I have attached your letter and the Board’s findings of the 3rd of March for your convenience and clarity, (please see attachment 20).
I do have a few questions of my own……
In the Boards findings of 3rd March 2011 (please see attachment 20), point 36 states that Mr Darnley faced a charge in relation to only one of the seven charges that were laid against me, but on a different basis…..
Which charge was this? I believe this could only have been the site of the explosion.
On what basis was this charge laid?
What was the outcome of this charge?
Why didn’t it appear in his final charges?
I apologise for not being more prompt with my reply, but I have had to start afresh in my career path. I am now a trainee at 41 years old, and have committed to proving myself at my new job, a job outside of the plumbing and gas industry, an industry I had invested a quarter of a century in.
My business re-launch failed miserably and even though I am highly qualified in my field and was told I would be in the top 10% of gasfitters the Board’s own assessor had ever assessed, I am finding it hard to find a job with in the plumbing and gas industry.
I was mortgage free with no debt whatsoever, but I have lost my home, my wife and sons, 5 and 7 at the time, spent 14 weeks of a winter in a caravan with no running drinking water and a chemical toilet, while I worked away. I lost also my business, reputation and two years out of my son’s young lives, and at times my sanity, all for a situation I had spent 6 years trying to warn about, warning about someone who was causing me great concern in his ability and attitude and its effects on the public’s safety, with my worst concerns proven, by actually happening. He acted as though he was untouchable, and apparently he was………Do you think this is fair? Who put the safety of the public first and foremost in their actions?
Thank you for your time. I understand you are a busy person, but may I respectively ask that you can confirm receipt of this email and its attachments, just for my piece of mind that it has come through ok.
I would welcome any further questions if it will assist your investigation.
I look forward to your reply.
-
And my second letter.........I have waited two years to be fobbed off................
FAIRNESS FOR ALL........umm.... that's not my experience
Dear Mr Patterson,
Ref 310809.
I am in receipt of your two letters dated 30 May and 13 June 2014. I also would like to take the opportunity to thank you for extending my date of reply.
I fear that I may not have made myself clear to you and your office. My complaint is not about the outcome of the biased and flawed hearing and slanted investigation.
My complaint is about the flawed and biased investigation and the subsequent stacked hearing that I was subjected to by the Board and it’s so called “impartial” investigator, the Board’s words not mine. This same Board who are willing to ignore blatant conflicts of interest and firm evidence that points to my old boss and are quite happy with the withholding and misrepresentation of evidence by their appointed so called “impartial” investigator. This is my complaint.
It concerns me greatly that your office appears to be putting so much emphasis and weight on the 33 page report written by the Board and Secretariat, who of course will have put a great deal of effort into excusing themselves. This is confusing to say the least. It is a kin to they themselves judging themselves impartial, (an oxy-moron and very bad grammar to say the least), which apparently no one has any concerns with either.
In point 1 of your letter dated 30th May, it appears there is some confusion over my situation, I did not sit a prescribed course of “INSTRUCTION”, which implies, even demands, the learning of new skills and knowledge, skills and knowledge that I was deemed by the Board to have lacked.
I was in fact ASSESSED…. learning nothing new. I am sure I could have learned a lot from the assessor as he was very knowledgeable, but the “course” prescribed by the Board wasn’t available, and so I was assessed. As this "punishment" imposed by the Board did not exist, I was forced to pay someone to assess me and this then imposed yet further additional costs.
Of note I was told by this assessor that I would be within the top 10% of people he had ever assessed, this he discovered after my assessment, when I had not been taught anything new. I was assessed on my already attained knowledge and skills (I did this assessment with my arm in a full plaster cast; perhaps this is where I dropped 10%). This is the same knowledge that I had used to position the califont. Your office is charged with seeing fair play served; do you think this is fair?
Are double standards fair? Is it fair to have been financially forced to sell my home, to have lost my business and reputation and been subjected to a witch-hunt when it appears that there is no consistency in the actions and findings of the Board? They appear to apply certain rules for some and ignore the same rules for others.
Of note, and this is why I requested an extension in my time of reply, I have recently been made aware that the Board has received a complaint from an elderly couple who complained about an installation of a califont, this califont was positioned much nearer than the califont in my one and only standing charge, by some 6 inches to two openable windows.
I have been told that the Board’s advice to them was to “close the windows when you use it” and did not pursue it any further. I have requested a clarification of this to the Board in the form of an OIA request, Doc 1 in attachments. I have copied your office in to this OIA request, as well as another OIA request to see if they have taken any action in the case which involved the very sad situation of a young lady losing her life; her horrific situation is to be found on this link, http://www.maoritelevision.com/news/national/native-affairs-lesleys-legacy. Doc 2 in attachments.
I ask you Mr Patterson is this Board effective? Which way do you think the Board will lead our industry and protect our public with these mixed and conflicting messages? What messages are they sending the people of this country when in one explosion they are willing to let it go with no one held accountable, even though there is evidence that indicates someone? And in another explosion, that actually took the life of an innocent, as far as I am aware, do nothing.
I am told that this distraught elderly couple, mentioned above, have since withdrawn their complaint and are on anti stress medication due to this terrible situation. Do these people in their twilight years deserve this? I have promised to leave them out of this until it is vitally necessary because of this stress that they have been subjected to. This double standard shown by the Board, do you think it is fair?
This goes toward showing that the Board haven’t changed since my hearing and are still using one rule for one, and ignoring other rules for others; this double standard has only just come to light in recent weeks. Do you think this fair?
Of note the customer involved in my case, the customer who owned the dwelling that was subject to charges laid for a califont installation at Malvern Av, had laid no complaint and had never in 6 years smelt any fumes, this is because the position of his califont was more open to a cross air supply and had a greater clearance to the floor, their califont was placed under one restrained opening window (only opening to 100mm as it was restrained by safety chains). This window opening into a very large open plan room and with its powered flue issuing into a much larger, clear and open garden, this was all taken into account when I positioned it. Fitted 40 mm over the 500mm minimum from the window, as per the tech note I had.
But the califont where the Board has apparently told the people to “close the window when you use it”, these poor people who have actually complained about fumes entering their home, their califont is positioned in a more enclosed area and is much nearer the floor, fitted under two windows that open, unrestrained, to much smaller rooms, (which is a concern due to the availability of free air, i.e. volume, for the dilution of these flue gases), and the elderly couple’s califonts power flue is issuing into a more enclosed and partially covered area with a deck and railings to one side. Is this Fair Mr Patterson? Is the Board’s apparent blasé flippant hypocrisy fair? This apparent attitude of the Board is where my complaint lies, right here. Doc 3 in attachments for photos of the califonts positioning.
In point 2 of your letter of 30th May, you speak of my lack of attempts in airing my concerns and the use of a “British Standard” at the High Court Appeal. I ask you to look at the recent reply I have received from the High Court, a reply to my request for a transcript of this appeal.
Please also see my extensive written submission to the High Court, already supplied to your office.
This recent application for a transcript for my appeal was made to enable me to show you that I was told categorically to talk only about the distance from the window to the califont by Justice Kos and had actually tried to air my concerns. The reply to my recent transcript application is below.
From: Stack, Michaela
Sent: Tuesday, 3 June 2014 12:09
To: Paul & Emma Gee
Subject: RE: hearing transcrpit.
Mr Gee
Thank you for your email. As you are aware this matter was an "Appeal" hearing before the High Court. No witnesses were called to give evidence at the High Court hearing and the parties relied on written submissions to present their arguments to the Court. Therefore no transcript would have been made. It is usual procedure that no transcripts are taken for civil appeal hearings.
Therefore I am unable to provide any transcript.
Kind Regards
Michaela Stack
Deputy Registrar
Wellington High Court
email : michaela.stack@justice.govt.nz
My highlights in red above. As you know, I did make an extensive written submission for my appeal, which I have provided to your office, detailing my concerns that you say I did not try to submit. So in effect I did make a valid attempt to address this and other issues, and as I can take it was read by Justice Kos I do not know why it isn’t in his summing up.
All the testimony, evidence and opinions issuing from my impartiality hearing and my actual hearing. All given so much credence by the Board and by Justice Kos appear to be based solely on the foundation of the integrity and reliability of the Board’s appointed so called “impartial” investigator and his opinion, even down to the strict enforcement of an acceptable solution, a NON COMPULSORY acceptable solution, the investigator offered no physical evidence to make his point, it was based solely on his opinion and translation of the NZ 5261 and a contradictory table that he helped write.
I was told at my impartiality hearing that as Mr Hammond hadn’t been shown to have acted egregiously, that he was deemed to be suitable and the right person for the job, even in light of all the conflicts of interest I had raised.
I ask you Mr Patterson, is this investigator, who withheld forensic photos which proved my point that I had maintained for two years, these same forensic photos taken before he was appointed as the investigator, the same photos which were in all probability in his possession as and when I told him at interview that it was my opinion that the pipe work had been altered after my initial pipe installation…. the same investigator who misrepresented evidence and was prepared to ignore his own huge conflicts of interest, is he suitable? Has he acted egregiously? Has he any integrity? Do you value his opinion? This where my complaint lies.
Is it fair that Mr Hammond’s colleague of many years, a Stephen Parker who was chair of my hearing, the same Chair who closed down this very hearing, just as my advocate was cross examining Mr Hammond about the califont measurement from an openable window and trying to get the investigator to clarify and give his reasons for his “opinion” on the clearance of the califont? This is the basis for my complaint.
It is the reliance on this one mans “opinion” by the involved authorities’, to base the whole ruination of my life, business and reputation, that I base my complaint.
I base my complaint on the Board’s willingness to ignore these blatant facts and cover for Mr Hammond….. which I suppose is understandable, after all, the Board did appoint Mr Hammond….the same Mr Hammond, an ex Board member, who had lobbied extensively for the deregulation of the gas industry and pushed for the self certification gas cert system to be introduced, this same self certing system shown to be wanting……..by none other than John Darnley, my old boss…….the same John Darnley who was gifted his license by Mr Hammond, gifted to Mr Darnley with no formal training….who was also a fellow member of NZIGE and other gas groups with Mr Hammond, Mr Parker and Mr Bickers…..Please Mr Patterson explain to me why this is acceptable. Explain to me, if you explain nothing else, why this is acceptable and why these blatant conflicts of interests should be ignored. Here is the heart of my complaint.
For your office to apparently be so willing to rely on the Board’s own excuses while they are ignoring the unsuitability of Mr Hammond is reason for concern. You are relying on the Board’s own spin for your reasons to not investigate, I believe this is unfounded and I will ask the human rights commission and perhaps even the leaders of our Commonwealth if they think this is reasonable. This same Board, who have misquoted me, prejudiced all the witness’s to all the sites of charges and told untruths about me and sent vile perverted case notes to my home. I will never let this lie and am in communication with a law firm to pursue this further if you decide to go on the path you appear to be following.
Is this conflicted and biased man, Mr Hammond, a reliable person for both the Board and Justice Kos, even the Ombudsman, to totally base their judgment on, up holding this last and final charge out of 44 trumped up charges? Is it fair for your office to listen to this man, to give him credibility? He has acted egregiously. This is my complaint.
Think on this, I feel it is relevant because of papers you have written. As you are aware, I had spent 6 years warning about my old boss, about him altering my certs after I had signed them, not forging my signature as your letter of 30th May has said.
As you know at one point I had a letter sent on my behalf in 2006 by Nick Smith MP, amongst many other attempts by myself to highlight the short comings of my old boss. Ironic, because I also have a photo of several Board members and the “later to be appointed” investigator pictured in 2006 along with my old boss at a NZIGE meeting, all of them paid up long serving members of the same interest groups.
Basically I was, in 2006, complaining about my old boss, to the very same Board members pictured with him in the very same year, all members of the same club, also present in this photo is the man later appointed to investigate the explosion AND who had awarded my old boss his full licence…along with the chair of my hearing Stephen Parker…..all in the same picture, all paid up members of the same group, three years before the explosion. I actually have more similar photos taken at NZIGE seminars.
All of this in contradiction to Mr Hammonds own signed affidavit, an affidavit written about how well he knew my old boss and how many times he had met him, is Mr Hammond the right person for the job? Is it fair? This is where my complaint lies.
Nick Smith MP stated in a letter that if the Board had heeded my warnings then the explosion “could have been averted”, written two years after the explosion. Is it fair that I lost so much? Doc 4 in attachments. And the Labour MP, Maryan Street believes I was served an injustice Doc 5 in attachments.
This is why I believe it may be relevant to you as I think you said it best in these comments attributable to a Prof Ron Patterson; I take it this is you.
In reading Doc 6 in attachments, please replace doctors with tradesman and the Medical Board with this Plumbers Board when rereading these notes, excerpt below:-
First, what do I mean by evidence? My Oxford English dictionary tells me that the word comes via Old French from the Latin evidentia, meaning ‘obvious to the eye or mind’ – from videre, to see. This is revealing, since one of the most common criticisms of medical (or gas ?) regulators when a licensed doctor has harmed patients, is that the board turned a ‘blind eye’ to the available evidence.
And from another paper….
Finding effective ways to raise concerns within the health (or may be gas?) system is a particular concern. Too often, health professionals (or may be gasfitters?) who attempt to do so lack institutional support and are met by denial and resistance. Even external inquiry bodies learn to expect re-litigation of findings by interested parties, denigration by critics, and revisionism by subsequent commentators who did not hear all the evidence and sometimes seem wilfully blind to it!
* My additions in black.
How about adding to this statement above…..That these “raisers of concern” are being set up and made a scapegoat when all that they had warned about comes to pass, nearly killing someone. Isn’t the Board denying and resisting my complaint, just as they did with my warnings, made 6 years prior to the explosion.
I ask you Mr Patterson. What is the difference between a patient’s health and safety to that of paying customer of a tradesman? Or are the rights of a gasfitter and his customer to be deemed less than that of a health professional and his patient? After all we are licence holding practitioners and have in the past been over seen by the health system. I was set up as a scape-goat, this is my complaint.
Doesn’t a patient pay for a service from a health professional and in doing so they should be able to expect to be kept safe and healthy after procuring these services, please explain to me the difference? I say this because a man nearly died in an explosion and NO ONE has been held accountable but I have been made the scapegoat. What message does this send?
Here’s an analogy for you. How does it sit with you if…….. a “health professional” was to be gifted his full practicing licence because he was a pharmaceutical salesman?........Then a well meaning, fully trained health practitioner had aired concerns about the obvious lack of ability of this untrained “gifted” licence holder for 6 years, and was later proven right in his concerns when a patient nearly died………but as the well meaning, fully trained person had signed a prescription (which was manipulated after signing) was then made the scapegoat, by the very person appointed to investigate, this same person who had also gifted the licence to the pharmaceutical salesman, and was in several interest groups with this salesman. Now apply this rational to mine and Mr Darnley’s situation, in light of your publications. Is this fair? How would the author of the above presentation feel about this state of affairs? A presentation about, of all things, “self regulation” and Board’s ignoring evidence.
All the evidence points to my old boss, he actually faced a charge for this explosion but it disappeared with no relevant questioning or a hearing. Is this fair? Doc 7 in attachments. You’ll notice that this letter mentions 3.7 of the report (the 33 page report that is mentioned above and in your correspondence). Point 3.7 makes no mention of the charge at the site of the explosion. Also a list of the charges laid against Mr Darnley has no mention of the explosion at Milton Street. How can someone face a charge then have it disappear with no trial/hearing or relevant questions? Is it fair?
I ask you, is it fair to base your opinion that my old boss was investigated thoroughly and adequately just because the investigator said he did? This same investigator who was also my old boss’s fellow member of NZIGE and the same person who had gifted my old boss his licence…..the same investigator, who withheld forensic photos, misrepresented and ignored evidence?
This same Mr Hammond who was willing to ignore, amongst other ignored evidence, a third hose supplied to supply the two fryers, this third hose sold well after, months after, I had left Allgas’s employment and a long time before the secondary work covered by cert 345138 for a pizza oven….this same hose being the very one that caused the explosion, the same hose that, in the opinion of the forensic investigator, David Neale, had had its sealing outer rubber coating cut away, the same outer coating that makes the hose gas tight. Is this fair? This is where my complaint lies. Doc 8 & 9 in attachments.
You mention the Board’s 33 page report. As you appear to have a copy please look at page 31, point 4.6, Doc 10 in attachments. I believe this double speak spin doctoring is part of the cover up and one of the root causes for making me a scapegoat, its plain to see for those willing to see. Cert 345138, a cert for the last, most recent work carried out at the site of the explosion, the same cert 345138 mentioned in the Board’s 33 page report, this is also the same cert 345138 mentioned in the Dept Of Labour (DOL) original complaint. Two pages of Doc 11 in attachments.
The DOL author of this letter of complaint told my lawyer right at the beginning of this fiasco that, at no point, was my work of concern to DOL. I have since personally talked to the author Mr Windleburn; he has no problem with my work either. To ignore this. This is where my complaint lies.
I ask you to read the DOL complaint and ask yourself who in this letter of complaint would a fair minded lay person think was more deserving of a thorough investigation.
· The fully trained Gas Service Engineer who had complained about Mr Darnley, specifically about dodgy certs covering dodgy work for 6 years and came forward freely.
· Or the person gifted his licence with no formal training, whom the Board had received letters of concern about, specifically dodgy work covered by dodgy certs, who was the last person to have worked at the site of the explosion but didn’t register the cert for this last work, but saw fit to issue a carbon copy to the customer, i.e. a dodgy cert covering not only dodgy work…. but an explosion? The same person who ran the company that sold the third hose and this same company also showing a willingness to act in my name when Allgas requested to alter a cert 3 months after I had left its employ? Doc 12 in attachments.
I find it bizarre that a copy or cert 345138 was entered into the Board’s own website, but they claim not to have received a copy. In the Board’s 33 page report it mentions that a “fox pro” entry is there for this cert I should imagine that this system would require a log in pass word for the person entering the certs information and this person could attest to whether the Board had in deed received a copy. How on earth does all the information on the carbon copies get on to the fox pro system, even down to the correct cert number…..without receiving a copy of the original! To deny receiving this cert alone deserves an investigation.
All available copies of cert 345138 lack the legal recording of a gas leak test, even the electronic version. The only copy missing…. the original! This is the only copy which was, in all probability, received by the Board.
I put it to you that it is possible that this original copy of 345138 was, in all probability disposed of and shredded when the Lawyers acting for the owners of the exploding chipshop asked for a copy of all gas safety certs for their gasfitting work carried out at their chipshop. Perhaps you could ask Belinda Greer, a worker for the Board. Doc 13 in attachments. Look at Doc 13 and reread the 33 pages of excuses in their report, it is nonsense.
This Cert 345138 is actually mentioned by number in the DOL complaint. This is where my complaint lies.
I ask you in all fairness, if the person responsible for the last work installed at the exploding chipshop, the same person who according to the Board didn’t register this cert for this work with the Board. But he saw fit to issue a carbon copy to the customer, and even kept a carbon copy himself as the supplier and another copy himself as the certifying gasfitter. With this same cert 345138 that appears in the complaint by DOL by actual number, the same cert mentioned in 4.6 on page 31 of the Board’s report……how can this man, the person responsible for initiating cert 345138, face a charge for the explosion, but then that charge disappears with no relevant questioning, trial or hearing? These are per the Board’s own correspondence. It is here my complaint lies, this “non registration” came to light 8 days after the explosion and months before the Board appointed an investigator. Is that Fair?
I ask you Mr Patterson……..how would the Board look if they had openly accepted an incomplete gas safety certificate for the last work done at a site that then later exploded…..lacking of all things a gas leak test? How would the Lawyers for the chipshop owners have acted on such findings?
In ever more double standards a person involved in yet another case, a situation where there was a pre-signing of some 560 blank certificates, which were on sold, including to unqualified lay persons, with 90% of the work covered by these blank certs done against regulation and non compliant…..with some 16 very dangerous, with the signatory on record as saying he signed and checked every job. What would you think if someone involved in this fiasco, probably the signatory of these blank certs…..still has charges before the Board some 5 years later? Is this fair? These double standards, this is where my complaint lies. Doc 14 in attachments.
The Board are also willing to ignore a potential fraud and manipulation of gas certs to cover dangerous work, this was discovered at my hearing, and the Board did nothing. Is this fair? This is yet another double standard and is where my complaint lies. Doc 15 in attachments. The letters sent by the Board, that are mentioned in this letter of excuse in Doc 15 were issued well before the manipulation of the certs was revealed at my hearing, it is actually one of the letters that the Board had to apologise to me for, because it contained untruths about my ability to act illegally in other areas of NZ. Ironically this letter of untruths sent by the Board came about because of the situation where the man mentioned above signed 560 certs in the North Island, apparently I got lumped in with him, but he potentially still has charges before the Board, even right up to today. This farcical state of affairs is where my complaint lies.
The list of poor performance by this Board is long and deserves a proper independent investigation. It does not deserve for the Board to be apparently protected and sheltered by those, like yourself, who would take all that the Board say on face value and fall for their spin doctoring and double speak, this is a mistake.
I was told by Mr Christopher Littlewood that all you could do was make a recommendation……please recommend that a proper, fair and independent investigation is held, I will do the rest, along with the support of well over 1200 members of the Plumbers Federation, a group set up because of 15 years of mismanagement by this Board. Sadly my case is but one of many.
Thank you for your consideration and time. Please can you tell me when I might receive a reply, it has been nearly a year and a half since my original complaint.
-
Just some of the humour from my transcript in blue below, there are heaps,
this is the sort of crap we have to live with, but if they do anything its an oversight....is that reasonable.....
Now, I think there's just one thing we need to correct here, that in your statement it's stated that Mr Gee become registered in 1978, he would have only been five years old at the time, so I think -
A. 1998 I believe, yeah my apologies for that.
Q. I think that's the way it's recorded on the Board's website, that's possibly where it come from?
A. It obviously isn't correct, thank you.
-
Here's where the investigators mate, and chair of the hearing, both of whom I had complained about at the impartiality hearing, this is where we Wal is questioning the investigator on the califont clearance the only charge that stood.....
Itson the last page of the transcript, because this is where they wrapped it up before we could push the issue.....is this reasonable?
That's fine. Now, the second thing I have just to clarify and you're talking about Part 1 and Part 2 of the Act. Now Part 1 is what must be done, what you must comply with?
A. Part 1 is the mandatory requirement.
Q. Mandatory requirement, yes, and Part 2 is a way of compliance?
A. That's correct.
________________________________________________________________________
433
Q. Now, the reason I was asking about that, because on page 35 of the edition I have here, 1.5.7, it meanings about flue terminals and in the second paragraph of that section it reads: "Flue terminals shall be located to minimise entry of combustion products into any building and to minimise the effects of adverse draft on the performance of the gas appliances". So in reading that, if there's no gas entering into a building, then it complies with Part 1?
A. Yes, the aim of that is to make sure that gas does not enter into the building.
Q. So that's the aim of it, so if there is no gas, say in this case we've got two situations where people are saying there's no gas entering, then according to that paragraph then it complies with Part 1 of the Act?
A. No, I don't rely on consumers whether the gas was entering or not, it is the gas fitter's job to locate it in such a way that gas does not enter the building.
Q. But that's what it's saying here though isn't it, it's saying that if the flues aren't entering the building then it complies with Part 1?
A. Yes, but -
Q. And if the customers are saying fumes aren't entering the building then it's compliant with Part 1?
A. But in order to ensure that under all conditions products of combustion do not enter into the premises, then one way of complying is to ensure that the clearances are in accordance with Part 2. If you are putting in an appliance with clearances other than those in Part 2, then you need to demonstrate how the - how you have ensured that under all conditions the products of combustion can't enter the property.
Q. That doesn't say "in all conditions" there. Does it say in here "all conditions"?
A. No it doesn't say all conditions, but that's surely a general inference from the requirements of the standard to meet all conditions.
Q. Well an inference is fine, but as per it says here the - that's located to minimise entry of combustion products and to minimise the effects of adverse draft et cetera. So those - if there's no fumes entering those two locations that we've been talking about, then they're actually compliant with the mandatory part of the NSZ 5261?
A. I don't have any knowledge of whether products of combustion are in fact entering or not. I have not carried out any tests to demonstrate. I am unaware of any tests that have been carried out to demonstrate that.
MR PARKER: Well I think we have reached the point where we are having submissions, so I think we can adjourn now.
MR BICKERS Q. Mr Hammond, I'm sorry I'm just thinking about what Mr Gordon had put, under what circumstances does 1.5.7 take precedence over 1.6.2? And 1.6.2 which is the manufacturer's instructions, which in turn is table 16, so what would be necessary to say that you've complied with 1.5.7 and you can override 1.6.2?
A. If the manufacturer had carried out some tests and designed a particular appliance in a particular fashion that he felt that it could be put closer to some other part of the building or whatever, then presumably he would provide that information to the gasfitters so they could see that it was appropriate to do so other than was specified in the means of complying.
MS INESON Q. Supplementary on that, so does that mean on page 101, is that the point of number 6? A. Sorry? Q. In page 101 is that the point of note 6 at the bottom of the page? A. Yes, that note is there specifically for. Q. To describe what you've just described? A. Yeah. (Witness excused)
________________________________________________________________________
435
MR PARKER: I think we'll adjourn and I thank you all. We will receive your written submissions on the agreed timetable, the 10th and the 16th. ADJOURNED [3.39 PM]
-
The thing that isn't portrayed in this transcript is the emotion and frustration and the looks around the room, bit like a bunny in the headlights of Wal's questioning.
Wal was on fire and had this guy wrapped up in his own words, now bear in mind that this was the only and last charge to stay, we answered all the others, this is the one they had to hold on to, so they picked up their ball and went home, just before the last over was to be bowled, bit like the under arm bowl at the cricket.....is this reasonable?
Then and this is the best part ignored a califont that was fitted nearer than mine and had been complained about by the customers......is this reasonable?
-
The thing is, there is enough of this bullshit in this transcript for me to do one a night for a few weeks.....is that reasonable.
Don't take my word for it, have a read, print it off and put it in the smoko room for the boys to look over what to expect from these guys.
-
127 photos were taken I got to see 17......from the transcript below in blue.....Mr Laurenson is the investigators lawyer, he wrote most if not all the statements for people to sign, after he "briefed" them, some refused to sign their own statements......hmm must have been something wrong with them?
Here Wal is questioning the forensic investigator for the police....some of these photos showed that the pipe had been moved there were holes in the wall that showed where I had originally fitted the pipe, before someone lowered it....I maintained this for the two years previous and only saw these photos at the hearing, I had told the investigator that the pipe was lowered right at the start of this fiasco......
How many photos did you take of the scene?
A. Hold on a second. I took 127 photographs of the scene.
Q. And who selected these 17 photos pertaining to this?
A. I was asked to give comment on those 17 photos by Mr Laurenson.
Q. So you didn't select them, Mr Laurenson selected the photos that we're looking at?
A. That's correct.
-
Here's another one, the lady swore that there was vehicular access to the cylinders after being "briefed" by the investigator....I knew there wasn't.....I sat in the council offices and went through a mountain of documents, then right at the end there was a A3 aerial photo, that yet again proved what I had said for the previous two years....
A. I just don't remember there being a fence there, that's all, but I mean let's face it, this is eight years ago that you're asking and it's not something that was a particular high priority ever, and I certainly didn't ever spend a lot of time there. So I'm just telling you to the best of my recollection, and yeah, I don't recall there being a fence. It's a shame I didn't actually get given these photos sooner before I was asked to commit things to paper and so forth, because I can see there is clearly potentially has been fencing across there somehow, but - yeah I just have this feeling that I was able to drive around through that entrance to the north of the building and access the students from that northern end, but like I say -
-
Another from the transcript, remember the pizza oven cert, the one missing the test result, the one that Darnley didn't register, but there was a copy on the Boards website, the one that they knew about days after the explosion.....
Well here is Wal cross examining the investigator....
So that would happen anywhere along that pipe line, for example, we know that a pizza oven was installed and they teed in a pipe line halfway along, would that gasfitter then take responsibility for the other aspects of the installation?
A. The person who carries out that work is required to ensure that the entire installation is sound in terms of test for gas leaks and carry out the installation tests to ensure that the installation is safe and then he signs for the work that he has done which covers insertion of the tee, the branch line to the pizza oven and the pizza oven itself.
Q. So whoever installed the pizza oven, they have taken over responsibility for the safety of that job as far as gas leaks and pipes being attached to walls and all those other sorts of things?
A. They should have carried out a pressure test to ensure that the entire installation was gas tight.
Now marry this statement to Max's excuse for not recording the test result and the fact that it wasn't until after the hearing that I asked for the original pink copy, see the email below from the Board's lawyer,
I think you could safely say that all this was known.....is this reasonable?
-
All carbon copies showed it was signed, signed by Darnley for this "pizza" cert, they just.....well they were missing the gas leak test results......for the site of an explosion......
Even Max Pederson says that the lack of these test results don't make the cert invalid.......
So we have a "valid" signed cert that lacks any record of a test for gas leaks and the Board have a copy on its website.....but the original "pink" copy has gone missing.......at the site of a near fatal explosion........is this reasonable? Is it legal?
How do you all feel that this is the measure for how you could loose all......is this reasonable?
-
Do these people have any integrity or credibility?
And remember they are still to this day backing all this, not fixing any of this.....
With no one held to account for an explosion that nearly killed someone, is this reasonable?
-
I am pretty sure that Allgas would have billed for this "unregistered" (more like shredded) cert......so what happens if you get paid to certify an installation and then you keep all the carbon copies but the original pink copy goes missing, The owner of the chipshop paid for this "service".
Now look at all the evidence, who would you go after the guy who warned about dodgy certs covering dodgy work, specifically naming this same guy who just days after the explosion came to light for not registering this cert (which is bullshit because there is a copy on the website).
OR
The guy who faced a charge but it disappeared, who ran the firm who was prepared to act in someone elses name to alter a cert after he had left his employment, was the last person to work at the site of the explosion and sold the replacement hose to the fryer that exploded, after changing the middle and start of an install, and in all probability the pipe work behind the fryers.....
Well it depends on which little clubs your in I suppose and if you were gifted your ticket by the investigator.....you couldn't write this shit....it is unbelieveable.
-
Please do not open this if any sexual sickness offends, I have thought long and hard before posting this, but it is what my wife was exposed to just before she had to live in a caravan for a whole winter with my two young sons while I worked away, when we were financially forced to sell our home, I guess on this forum we are all adults and the major majority of us are men (though this do not make it any more palatable).
I think I can only ask you all how this has any bearing on a plumbers tribunal and reflects more on those that use this filth just to prove a point,
PLEASE DO NOT OPEN IF GRAPHIC SEXUAL DEVIANCEY OFFENDS.
The Board and its representatives have no problem with this whatsoever, but they sent it to my home unmarked of its content and my wife opened it, she had no idea of what it contained, I came home to find her hysterical and sobbing, it is mostly because of this that I will never let this go. If I could ask your opinion in any other way, or was able to "show" you with out "showing" you I would.....but I have shown MP'S TV shows and the Ombudsman, they don't seem to care, please let me know what you think, I apologise in advance.
But I truly do not believe until the public know all, warts and all....will they grasp the level of these people, and I use the term people very loosely. From memory they sent three different sets of case notes to prove a point on probabilities, all of a sexual deviant nature.
Please explain to me the relevance, and please if easily offended do not open the attachment, this is more warning that the Board provided my wife, I agree with the Feds it is getting harder and harder to abide by the law when they do as they please.
-
this is just a small part of it there were reams and pages of it......it did nothing short of terrorise my wife.
These people are scum, what if their daughters or wives were sent such filth, well my wife is someone's daughter and she is my wife......you are filth
-
WTF......there HAS to be more relevant and palatable past case notes.....or was their intention to terrorise......
Or is it that their own levels of decency are so low they see no wrong in it.
Max Pederson advised me to engage a lawyer to explain it to me, he has no problem with it......I told him I didn't need a lawyer to teach me ethics and common decency. People wonder why I nut off?
-
Ok - I am speechless - what the hell does this have to do with a gas about gas certificates, exploding fish and chip shops, clearances etc? I'm lost. What is the context?
-
Send Max Pederson an email to explain it.......or Nick Smith......or Campbell live.......because if anyone can explain it to me, then we will both know
-
It nearly gave my wife a nervous break down, I swear on all that is holy if anything ever goes that far.....I will show them my distaste, it is so very ironic that the person they have terrorised the most, is the one keeping them safe.
Cowardly scum.....this needs airing, can you imagine Nick Smith telling me "on air" that its normal legal practice......the public back lash would give him whiplash.
-
Here is the Boards take on it.
-
Now add all this to the bullshit below.....do we need/want/deserve this kind of shit?
Which side are you going to pick......they are utter scum.
-
Here is a list of people who know, some have helped me beyond all I could have ever thought, some are yet to help and there are those that want this swept under the carpet, well I don't like lumpy carpets....in blue below
From: Paul & Emma Gee [mailto:gasnsolarservices@gmail.com]
Sent: Sunday, 25 January 2015 10:33 p.m.
To: 'Registrar'; 'complaints@pgdb.co.nz'; 'Nick 4 Nelson'
Cc: 'Wal Gordon'; 'Allan Day'; 'Colleen Upton'; 'Lyndon Moffitt'; 'campbelllive@tv3.co.nz'; 'Andrew Little'; 'jacinda.ardern@parliament.govt.nz'; 'Janis Adair'; 'Jude Hutton'
Subject: RE: Letter responding to 26 Nov email
Please see the link below,
Max can you please answer my last requests and can you confirm that it is Mr Jackson stood next to John Darnley in the photo that I sent, I believe it is. Mr Jackson sat on my impartiality hearing and is the present chair of the Board. Is this reasonable?
I ask you if any of this is acceptable, reasonable…. even legal? It is all there in the public domain, what do I have to do to get this get looked at fairly?
http://www.plumbers.co.nz/forum/fellow-practitioners-update/41/fellow-practitioner-issue-236-dated-12-december-2014/1810/msg9234#msg9234
I will not let this lie.
-
If your new to the forum, please take the time to read the posts on here, there is a lot, but there is a lot that we deal with.
Max Pederson Plumbers Board CEO, what is happening with the legionnaires risk that you have ignored for years, are you going to wait until someone falls ill.
-
Actually if your new to this forum, read all the posts by Badger, there is one hell of a story, a cover up, and an explosion that nearly killed someone, Parliament even changed the law to make what the Board did legal.
This could be done in your homes.....please share the best disinfectant is daylight, please share this to as many people as you can.
-
if your an old hand to this forum share it on face book, share it around, print it off and put it in the smoko room, but please do use discretion with the sick and twisted case notes, they are twisted and should be only shown to consenting adults who are aware of the content, unlike my wife who had them sent to us unmarked.
-
I am just wondering guys......so does any of this seem reasonable.....wait until I prove the last charge is wrong too, a physical impossibility, unless your on Planet Board where shit rolls up hill.....
Give em a few days until they answer my other queries.....if that wasn't Mr Jackson stood next to Darnley....I am pretty sure they would have sent me an answer by now, its their usual way, they only delay, mislead and flannel when there is something to hide.
So how do you guys feel about being lead by these type of people....I have been told that when I tried to warn about all this dodgy work covered by dodgy certs, that "I pissed some high ranking people off, one even tried to threaten Wal over the phone (after meeting him face to face the night before), very brave.
But who had the publics health and safety first and foremost in their mind.....
-
It gets better, here is my reply received last night, now I am more convinced than before, sometimes you answer by not answering, and the more flannel just shows your hiding something......apparently it isn't reasonable to ask someone you have worked closely with for years whether it is them in a photo, ever more flannel......here is an idea Mr Pedersen ASK Mr Jackson if its him in the photo. It is that easy.
And as Mr Pedersen has never met Mr Darnley??? perhaps he could ask the investigator, Mr Hammond, the chair of my hearing Mr Parker, or the other Board member's in the photo, what Mr Darnley looks like, he is the one circled.....is this a reasonable answer?
Now I asked the Board to show where I had "varied" on making my point in my complaints about this hot water system (I can find no variations???, but this would help to undermine me yet again, bit like when they said I called myself a mere plumber, but can't show me where I said it). please if you can find any variations let me know.
...... but they have sent a full comprehensive list of when and how I have tried to get them look at a legionnaire's risk(its a big list), even the time I contacted the coroner, they mention twice contacting the local TA and that I would be informed of the result, still waiting to hear about this, as well as a pink copy of the cert for this place, you've seen how it is potentially plumbed, and according to the Board they have no letters (so they have sent no letters) to Darnley to inform him of these complaints, which they are meant to send on receiving a complaint, unless the complaint is dismissed as vexatious or frivolous, or even lately unreasonable, so it appears that they don't adhere to their own policies....should they adhere to their own policies??? wouldn't you want to get this potentially dangerous system looked at? Is this reasonable?
-
Sent this morning.....do they have any credibility?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Paul & Emma Gee [mailto:gasnsolarservices@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, 29 January 2015 7:06 a.m.
To: 'Paul & Emma Gee'; 'Registrar'; communications@pgdb.co.nz; complaints@pgdb.co.nz; 'Nick 4 Nelson'
Cc: 'Wal Gordon'; 'Allan Day'; 'Colleen Upton'; 'Lyndon Moffitt'; campbelllive@tv3.co.nz; 'Andrew Little'; jacinda.ardern@parliament.govt.nz; 'Janis Adair'; 'Jude Hutton'
Subject: RE: Letter responding to 26 Nov email
To all those copied in, I ask you is this reasonable?
Mr Pedersen,
ASK Mr Jackson if its him in the photo. It is that easy.
And as you have never met Mr Darnley??? perhaps you could ask the investigator, Mr Hammond, the chair of my hearing Mr Parker, or the other Board member's in the photo, what Mr Darnley looks like, he is the one circled.....is this a reasonable answer?
I have asked the Board to show me where I had "varied" on making my point in my many complaints about this hot water system (I can find no variations???, but this would help to undermine me yet again, a bit like when the Board said I called myself a mere plumber, but can't show me where I said it).
You have not aswered my query, please if you can find any variations, please can you let me know what they are, I can’t find any.
You have sent a full comprehensive list of when and how I have tried to get the Board to look at a legionnaire's risk (its a big list, and a very real concern), you have even included the time I contacted the coroner.
You mention twice in this correspondence that you have contacted the local TA and that I would be informed of the result, I am still waiting to hear about this, as well as recieving a pink copy of the cert for this address, which has the risk. Please can you forwards me this.
I find it totally unreasonable that you've seen how it is potentially plumbed (see correspondence), and according to the Board they have no letters (so they have sent no letters) to Darnley to inform him of these complaints, which the Board are meant to send on receiving a complaint, unless the complaint is dismissed as vexatious or frivolous, or even lately unreasonable, so it appears that the Board is selective on adhering to their own policies....should the Board adhere to their own policies??? Shouldn’t the Board want to get this potentially dangerous system looked at? Is this reasonable?
I will ask again…..Why do you protect Darnley?
Please ask Mr Jackson if it is him the photo, I think this is a reasonable request.
I direct you all to the link below, I ask you all to add this altogether and ask your self if this Board has any integrity, competency or credibility?
-
So here's a quote from a news paper, attributable to Mr Pedersen...
“Don’t risk your family’s health and safety or your insurance by hiring unauthorised people. Any defective sanitary plumbing work has the potential to cause disease and serious, costly damage to the home.”
Now read the correspondence below in the attachments and ask your self why doesn't this quote apply to this address.
Wouldn't you just send someone to check if what I am saying is true or untrue, wouldn't it be reasonable to make sure that this address is safe? Instead of palming it off to others?
-
So any way back to the ignored blatant evidence..........I left Allgas the December before the THRID hose was sold to the exploding chipshop........this is I am told by the owner who got exploded that this is the hose that caused the explosion........is this reasonable.
Have a look at the attachments......
-
You'll notice that the receipt for the exploding hose has come from a binder....its the binder from the evidence bundle from my kangaroo court, sorry " hearing ".......which is ironic because no one was " listening "........dodgy as....
-
Now add that to the withheld 117 photos.....So I proved at the " hearing ".......that the cylinder station was altered (invoicing of materials contradicted the forensic photos) then we have the pizza oven installed half way along (installed by Darnley) with the "unregistered" cert (unregistered by Darnley).......then the hose that supplied the offending fryer sold a month after I left....
Who would you go after if you were the inquisitor, sorry investigator.....especially if this letter was sent by the MP......see attached......look at the dates......the chippy blew up in April 09, the letter is dated June 06........
-
Here's a funny one here is the Boards response to my queries about a certain brand of pizza, I made this after old Maurice Williamson said in Parliament that there was an explosion, the poor guy got his wires crossed with the "pizza oven with held cert" and a very good purveyor of fine pizza, he had to retract it......then he got bollocked for sticking up for a guy who beat up his missis and mother in law......you couldn't make this shit up......
-
The charges that were brought against a tradesman (that's one) ...... well that was me......
So where did the charge that Darnley face.......well where did it go?
-
Does this smell of corruption to anyone?
-
So here we have a letter from our present minister........so now he is in a position to look at this.....well he asked to see me....I went......he told me his personal advice to me was to let it go......
Is this reasonable?
-
Now bear in mind that this was written just months after the explosion in 2009.......BEFORE I found all this other blatant PROOF and EVIDENCE........
So what changed......except it is now in HIS portfolio......funny that!
-
So here is a very similar situation that I believe is the same sort of set up as the legionnaires risk....this guy got done (as he should) but....well you've seen Mr Pederson's reply.....
What is the difference Mr Pedersen? I know you read this site...perhaps you would like to publically comment.....that's reasonable isn't it?
Except of course the job your ignoring is Mr Darnley's job.....its the Teflon fitters job isn't it!! Is any of this reasonable, acceptable, even legal?
Well if you can face a charge at the site of an explosion, have that charge disappear and not register the pink copy of the cert, but give the carbon copies out......but there is a copy on the Board's own web site........well I suppose you can do anything.......
Remember the "dealing with unreasonable people" policy........what a bloody laugh......
-
the Board's credibility is about as strong as the roof on the chipshop just after the explosion....
How do you all feel about getting told by these goons that it is YOU that needs upskilling......and you got to chip in to their charity to fund them to treat us like this.......it could be anyone of you.
-
Here is how close, how well, the chair of my hearing is to the investigator......the investigator who gifted Darnley his full craftsman licence based on one ORAL exam, basically a chat.
The investigator was the chairs technical adviser too.....is this reasonable......the same investigator who gifted Darnley his ticket.....is this reasonable?
Would the investigator want to look at someone who he GAVE a certifying licence to......would he want to face the fact that he may have empowered some one to sig off a job.....when the person he gave the licence to, was a clueless moron.....with no training or apprenticeship.
And in turn would his mate, the chair of my hearing let that happen......perhaps that is why he shut down the hearing before I could totally clear my name......is this reasonable?
-
Is any of this reasonable?
How would you feel about it.....I lost my home and business and two years with my two lads.......I had to work away while my wife lived in a caravan and had to collect drinking water and empty a chemical toilet......while ironically her husband was working away fitting toilets and taps in other peoples homes.....is this reasonable?
-
The Boards excuse for this to all be ok.......they refer to Mr Hammonds investigation.....a circular and crap argument....which is nothing new.....
-
Heres the transcript of the "impartially" hearing.....the hearing that the Board had originally set aside for the actual hearing, they told me to allow three days for this....then when we turned up, they said no verbal evidence was allowed and after two hours sent me packing.....I was stuck in wellington for three days because I couldn't afford to change my flights....I was skint.....Wal let me stay at his home for free, he stood by me in this hearing, the next hearing and in high court....for free.
Never once has Wal asked or even hinted for anything, I think I might have bought him a beer, which he begrudgingly took....top bloke.
have a read of all the names present......now look at all the connections to Mr Darnley.....
Perhaps this is why Mr Pedersen can't ask Mr Jackson if its him in the photo, perhaps he wouldn't like the answer......you'll notice that it is stated that the present chair "has never been a member of NZIGE......so (if it is him) is he stood next to Mr Darnley in the photo that Mr Pedersen, hasn't thought to ask Mr Jackson if it is him.......is this reasonable?
-
Sorry I have that much info, evidence and photos that I get confused some times.....lol
This is what I meant to attach......
Before the internet I would have been screwed.....its all up there in the ether....on a cloud.....everything I have has been sent around the world, isn't technology amazing..... ;D
-
You really should read the transcript, especially on the relationships.....what is it if you tell fibs in a court or in a legal function.....
Remember if they stay they would have learnt a lot from this, and now think if someone moves that gas fire to the other side of the room and you have signed it off, took no photos and it blows up........good luck with that, now assume the position.....
-
Here is an excerpt from my submission to the select committee.... apparently there is no problem in someone ordering books of certs in your name, with out your knowledge......why would someone do that?
Bare in mind the "impartial" investigator had lobbied heavily too for the self cert system, see attached. Now how would a person look if they lobbied for the self cert system and deregulation, empowered a guy with his full licence.....that later "didn't register" a cert for the last work.....AT THE SITE ON AN EXPLOSION......I reckon he would look a bit of a cock.
1. On 10 November 2003, I attended a meeting with the Manager. At this meeting, I submitted a written statement outlining my safety concerns; this written statement was later provided to the Board and appears in my Hearing’s Bundle (HB).
2. On 13 November 2003, I was issued with a written warning by the manager for how I had expressed my concerns about safety to his son in law, (HB). In response to this written warning I indicated I would resign as soon as was practicable.
3. On 14 November 2003, four books of non-transferable gas certificates were ordered, for the one and only time, by some one at the gas company. It was done in my name, without my knowledge, (HB).
4. On 19 November 2003, I gave two weeks notice and resigned from this gas company, (HB).
5. I later found out, after the explosion, that on the 4th March 2004, three months after I left, someone from this gas company, on this company’s letterhead, wrote a letter in my name to alter a gas certificate to the PGDB, which was apparently acted on, (HB).
-
Here's the orders for the 4 books of certs......looks like they went to order just one book then thought well we might as well have another three books......this all came from the Boards own records.......
Is this reasonable......
-
On the last page the sum is made out for just 250 bucks and the quantity has been altered.....
God I bet they miss being able to charge 1000 dollars for four books of certs.
-
So how do you feel to be overseen by a Board who frame innocent people, while they ignore guilty people, even ignore dangerous installations that could kill and prosecute for one appliance when no one has complained but ignore a job where a poorly elderly couple complain, that is fitted nearer than the one I fitted......
How do we feel about that......and it is us who need to sit in on CPD bollox courses and prove we are fit and proper people.....is this reasonable?
-
There is something that has always niggled me about this form, attached, if you look at the top it was faxed on the 14th, the certs were sent on the 17th.......wouldn't the additions/alterations have been done at the Board, perhaps after a phone call?, if you write up a form and make a mistake, then you just throw it away and start again.....but if it been received, sent by fax.....how do you alter/add stuff?
-
And why is there two different types of hand writing on it? Strange eh?
-
......and what's with the ordering of one book then another three books?
Apparently all this is normal....really? because to me it looks dodgy.......
-
........and doing it after I told him in no uncertain term that he could shove his job up his arse......why would someone buy these certs, not just one book but 4......just before I leave their company?
Paid for on the 15th....look at the cert numbers.....
-
This is why these certs have the paper copy I am not mentioned.....but the system shows it as me.......this is why it is not ok to buy certs in someone else's name with out them knowing that your ordering them, especially if they have told you to shove your job up your arse.....
But Mr Hammond thinks its ok......starting to see the trend......
-
These are the certs, mentioned below, these are the ones that resulted in the disclaimer......
Disclaimer: The details as they appear here are not necessarily an accurate reflection of the details on the original hardcopy certificate. For this reason, should you wish to obtain a copy of this certificate, please complete the form on the previous page or email gascerts@pgdb.co.nz for more info.
Can you imagine if one of us mere plumbers made a cock up like this......
-
Fit and proper, unreasonable people.......perhaps a mirror might help Maxy Boy.....go have a hard look.....
-
Now how about these photos.....
-
Here's some irony for you, a Board news letter the month before the explosion, remember the cert not registered, the altering of the whole gas install, from the lowering of the pipe, the addition of the pizza oven, and the altering of the gas supply set up.....talk about one rule for one and one rule for others......is this reasonable?
Tony Hammond, is the investigator and have a look at Mr Parker, in the newsletter attached.
Replacement for
Gas Appliances –
Tony Hammond
The Gas Regulations (REG 24) define, amongst others, that the
following require certification:
Extensions, additions and replacements to existing gas installations
Alterations that result in repositioning of pipework or changes to the
operation of the installation
It is worth noting that an installation is defined in the Gas Act as
“including a gas appliance”.
Therefore, replacement of one appliance by another, even if very
similar, requires certification.
Further weight is added to the argument when one considers that
even a “like for like” replacement needs to be adjusted to ensure
gas pressure and aeration are set appropriately, the connections are
gastightness and the safety devices operate at the right levels; that
is, the appliance needs to be commissioned in accordance with clause
1.6.7 of NZS 5261.
-
So Steven how long have you known Mr Hammond?
Stephen Parker
Stephen Parker, Executive Director of the Gas
Association of New Zealand since 1998,
-
so how well do the investigator and the chair of my kangaroo court know each other....compare this to their statement from the impartiality hearing......is this reasonable?
-
Right now you have seen some, and I mean some of the evidence that points to someone at Allgas, in all probability Darnley, altered the whole install. You have even seen some and I do mean some of the times I had tried to get this looked at for YEARS before the explosion.....
Now lets have a gander at the Dept of Labour complaint, it is the whole basis for the investigation, 100% (I have checked and asked the Board).
Let me direct you to the second page, although the first page says a lot, and also let me remind you that the cert number 345138, is the "unregistered cert", the one where there is an electronic copy, but the Board claim to have not received it....look at the date of the complaint, then match that to the date that the Board told the owners lawyer about cert 345138, the last work at the site of an explosion.
Now I have heard a phrase, "what would a fair minded lay person think".....well would he think this is corrupt.......
NO ONE HAS BEEN HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR AN EXPLOSION, look at the time too 9:40 in the morning, 1 hour earlier it would have been surrounded by kids on there way to school, it had a large glass window.....it would have been horrific. We are very lucky it nearly only killed just one poor person (WTF)......
You have seen these goons pontificate about the need for safety and the good of the public.....is this reasonable?
-
So on the 17th April they confirm to the lawyer that they have never received a copy of 345138, the complaint from DOL comes in on the 8th of July, and specifically mentions this cert, and concerns over my complaints made previously....
Is it reasonable to persecute me?
-
While looking for this other stuff I came across another of the twisted sickness that they sent to my home opened by my wife, please do not open if any sexual deviancy offends and beware what is seen can't be unseen. It really is R18.
-
Anyway back to the one charge that they went in my local paper and said that I didn't know what I was doing, which wasn't when my business collapsed, that happened when the Board sent out letters to all the sites "of concern", the one letter I believe that nailed my business was the one to the one and only high school in Motueka.
These are the letters that they had to apologise for because they gave the impression that I could act outside of the law..... in Northland, a place I have never even visited, let alone worked there.
So, I am found not guilty on 95% of the charges, and just as we are going to go for the full 100%, Stephen Parker shuts down the hearing. Just as Hammond says.......
The "Q" is Wal, my advocate and the "A" is the inquisitor,
Q. That's fine. Now, the second thing I have just to clarify and you're talking about Part 1 and Part 2 of the Act. Now Part 1 is what must be done, what you must comply with?
A. Part 1 is the mandatory requirement.
Q. Mandatory requirement, yes, and Part 2 is a way of compliance?
A. That's correct.
________________________________________________________________________
433
Q. Now, the reason I was asking about that, because on page 35 of the edition I have here, 1.5.7, it meanings about flue terminals and in the second paragraph of that section it reads: "Flue terminals shall be located to minimise entry of combustion products into any building and to minimise the effects of adverse draft on the performance of the gas appliances". So in reading that, if there's no gas entering into a building, then it complies with Part 1?
A. Yes, the aim of that is to make sure that gas does not enter into the building.
Q. So that's the aim of it, so if there is no gas, say in this case we've got two situations where people are saying there's no gas entering, then according to that paragraph then it complies with Part 1 of the Act?
A. No, I don't rely on consumers whether the gas was entering or not, it is the gas fitter's job to locate it in such a way that gas does not enter the building.
Q. But that's what it's saying here though isn't it, it's saying that if the flues aren't entering the building then it complies with Part 1?
A. Yes, but -
Q. And if the customers are saying fumes aren't entering the building then it's compliant with Part 1?
A. But in order to ensure that under all conditions products of combustion do not enter into the premises, then one way of complying is to ensure that the clearances are in accordance with Part 2. If you are putting in an appliance with clearances other than those in Part 2, then you need to demonstrate how the - how you have ensured that under all conditions the products of combustion can't enter the property.
Q. That doesn't say "in all conditions" there. Does it say in here "all conditions"?
A. No it doesn't say all conditions, but that's surely a general inference from the requirements of the standard to meet all conditions.
Q. Well an inference is fine, but as per it says here the - that's located to minimise entry of combustion products and to minimise the effects of adverse draft et cetera. So those - if there's no fumes entering those two
________________________________________________________________________
434
locations that we've been talking about, then they're actually compliant with the mandatory part of the NSZ 5261?
A. I don't have any knowledge of whether products of combustion are in fact entering or not. I have not carried out any tests to demonstrate. I am unaware of any tests that have been carried out to demonstrate that.
MR PARKER: Well I think we have reached the point where we are having submissions, so I think we can adjourn now.
-
So in green below, Apparently not, because there is an elderly couple who have complained about this, to the point of having to take meds to relieve their stress, because they could smell fumes coming in their window, they complained and were told to close the window when they used it......that's consistent governance from the Board, lol......
A. No, I don't rely on consumers whether the gas was entering or not, it is the gas fitter's job to locate it in such a way that gas does not enter the building.
Now, Mr Hammond states that Part one is mandatory and part two is a means of compliance......hmmmm, so it isn't mandatory.....lets have a look at table 16 (which Mr Hammond co-authored), along with this gentleman below who said......see attached
-
From my high court appeal.....
86. Table 16 of NZS5261:2003 is in its self proof the table is only a recommended solution in that reference k the distance of a flue terminal from a mechanical air inlet, including a spa blower, is 1500mm for a natural draft flue and 1000mm for a fan assisted flue. A mechanical inlet basically operates by mechanically sucking air in to the building.
87. This is 500mm closer than the distance recommended by the same table for the distance from an openable window. Effectively a mechanical inlet sucking like a vacuum cleaner can be closer than an opening window.
88. Note the two Investigators, Mr Hammond and Mr De Bernardo, were both on the Committee that was responsible for the preparation of NZS5261:2003 so would have an interest to ensure the standard did not fail.
So a fan, sucking from outside to blow inside, because the bubbles are in the spa.....I got the spec for these fans, your talking cubic meters a minuet , being sucked from out side to inside......so this can be 500mm nearer than a passive window.......is this reasonable?
-
Here's the appeal submission.
The Board's lawyer tried to block our appeal, then we were told we could not "adduce" (add) any new evidence extra to the hearing.......but the Board were allowed to adduce that "they should be given more weight to their opinions because they are a professional Board"
Does any of the bullshit below, strike you as "professional"???
-
Q. You'd have to agree wouldn't you that there is a real risk that if the window is open products of combustion from the heater will go in the window?
A. I would argue the point, no I don't think that would be the case. As I drew in my drawing earlier, the gasses act - it's hot air, it gets ejected from the water heater probably to about I'd say about four metres, under force, and then it rises. Now if a window is higher probably say two or three metres higher, it's going to eject out four metres and have more of a chance of drifting up isn't it? In my opinion, this is just my opinion, I would never do it because I've got to literature to back it up, but if that window was directly above that flue it would probably be safer, because the fumes would be ejected out no into the atmosphere and they would drift off. And I just must add, this window that was above it, according to the statement and according to what I remember, had a six inch gap. You'd have to have a hell of a prevailing wind to shove it up that window.
Q. Now, at 37 Dommett Street, or avenue, as a precaution you arranged you say, for the customer to screw the window shut?
A. As it was a bedroom.
Q. Surely if it's - if you need to do that when it's a distance of 1340 millimetres, you'd also want to do that when there's only 500 mm metres?
A. Did you listen to what I just said? Did you comprehend what I was just saying? I believe that a heater - a window higher - you've got more room for that forced out air to return back. In a smaller distance and I believe that I was complying with the tech note I have, which wasn't for a Bosch, but if I took the guts out of that unit and put it in a Rinnai unit, you wouldn't know. The - I made a judgment call, I believe borne out by it - I've been borne out by it. The customer said it's never been a problem. I distinctly remember ringing Colleen Singleton and I asked her for advice where to turn for any information, advice. She told me to refer to industry providers and industry member. I can only do what I'm told. I can only follow instruction. If my boss gives me something from a reputable firm I can ________________________________________________________________________ 392
only - why would I have kept that original fax? Because I thought it was relevant to my job and I thought it helped me perform my job better. I could have said to this guy "oh that unit mate got to go about 20 metres up the wall, it will cost you a bit extra in the plumbing and gas and all this", I tried to put if as near as I could to his bathroom, he's happy, there's no problem with fumes coming in. I made the call, my call and the tech note have been borne out to comply with Part 1 of the regular which is mandatory. Part of the 2 of the regs, is according to the regs, I'll have a look here, at the beginning - I can't be bothered looking it up, I know what it says, it says Part 1 is mandatory; Part 2 is a way - an acceptable solution for it to conform, it also mentions in there to reference of the regs, it tells you to - I've never seen a document so hard to understand and contradictory, what would you say if I could say I could point out what I think is an error in that document? Would you be interested in any of that? No? Won't bother.
Q. Okay now we'll move on to 5 Powick Street.
A. Yeah.
Q. And could you please go to paragraph 105 in your statement at tab 15. Tab 15, your statement, 105. Now you said that all you did there was to re-run the pipe to the califont that is from an existing supply to an already installed unit, not units?
A. Yep. That's singular.
Q. Yes. Now it's my understanding then that what you are saying that was to re-run the pipework from the existing Rinnai 32 upstairs?
A. No not from it, to it.
Q. Okay to it, from the existing bottles?
A. Yeah. Yep, that's what I'm saying.
Q. And do you say that at that stage the other Rinnai that was getting installed - or has been installed as we see in the photos wasn't there?
A. Has been since installed there. It was still in bits on a Japanese production line when I did the job.
-
So what if what I said was true and the investigator has already said he hadn't tested it to see if the fumes were actually entering the bulding, and he didn't like to listen to the people who live in the dwelling........I am the "A", Wal the "Q" below.....
EXAMINATION CONTINUED BY MR GORDON
Q. Exhibit PG 023?
A. Is a diagram I drew trying to show how being fitted inside the flush box would actually make the job - make the heater nearer the window than - it was a better job to fit the heater on the wall.
Q. Now you wanted to explain regarding the balance flues and force flues?
A. Can I - it's probably easier if I use the whiteboard.
________________________________________________________________________
312
MR CORKILL QC: Have we finished with that Mr Gordon?
MR GORDON: Yes, we have.
WITNESS: With a balance-type flue it works on gravity - this is just for the layman people here, the gasfitters will know all this, the hot gasses being less dense rise and they rise under their own weight as such. So if we add a wall like this, (indicates) with a window like that, and this being a vent, this would sort of come up almost like cigarette smoke and it would come underneath the window. Now, with the power flues and this is why I used the tech note, and I thought that the biggest supplier of califonts in New Zealand was - had a bit of weight behind them. You've got a wall like this with a unit with an exhaust, now if I fitted it in the flush box it would be further this way, that's what this dotted line is trying to show. It's not fumes as Mr Hammond said. Now from experience these fans, they're quite powerful and they shoot the gasses out and they sort of - they exhaust away from the building. Now I would never go inside the measurement I had from Rinnai, but in theory the nearer that would go to the window, almost the safer it would be, because it blows it away from the building and then it drifts up. Now with Malvern Ave they said that this is predominantly the prevailing wind which would push this back in. But it was on the back side of the house that was facing away from the coast; I would have thought that the prevailing wind wouldn't have come from the hill. So I believe I had a 500 mm clearance, because it was a little bit more, 540, and I thought that it would clear. I did not put it there thinking I'll just stick it there, it's easier. I put it there in good faith. But a balance flue, I think the Reg is dated more for this type of application and I would agree with that.
Not to mention the British Standard that proves what I said was true..
-
Now the Board where they ignored the poorly old couple.....well theirs was closer than mine, but I don't think that was the issue.....
The one where I was publically admonished and ridiculed for......well that issued into a large open garden.
The poorly elder couple who were told to "just close the window when you use it"....well theirs was more enclosed with no cross wind.
Basically I got done for the Board enforcing a non mandatory part of the NZ5261.....why have we got two sections? Why not just make them all mandatory?......I asked this at a standards roadshow.......its because "some times the install falls out side of the normal application"......you mean just like at the job where I installed the califont???
Have a look at the photos.....
It is reasonable to ruin me for just one install that no one had a problem with, just on the say so of the investigator, who wrote the book of regs (and would be very protective of this document failing) and lobbied for deregulation and self certification and gave Darnley his full ticket? Same guy had never actually installed anything, as he was a chemical engineer,......but he was gifted his craftsman licence just like Darnley
-
Apparently it is me who is unreasonable.....
Now you know some, and I mean some of what I know.......who do you think is unreasonable?
Who do you think needs investigating?
Who has the publics health and safety first and foremost in their mind?
Luckily your not being called incompetent and require on going training, and paying for the privilege......oh sorry... what there... you do.....
But its ok because they are a charity.....so get a warm fuzzy feeling that you support a charity that looks after NZer's.....paying no tax back into the system, just a thought.....perhaps this saving on tax allows for higher wages to be paid?
If something lives off another, contributes nothing back and does this to the detriment of the host..........it is parasitic........DDT anyone?
-
The Board based their whole decision on the testament of one totally conflicted individual (Hammond), an individual who had plenty of reason to want to go after me and protect Darnley.
..........is this reasonable???
The only other gasfitter in the room was British.....Mr Hardy...have a look a the British Standard, hmmm reasonable or unreasonable ......they stated that they were a professional board who should be given more weight in their opinions.....so I guess they think they know more, but the only craftsman gasfitter, who was British......didn't know about the British Standard.
The same guy sat in on my "impartiality" hearing......the make up of the impartiality hearing....
Mr Mark Whitehead - Chair
Mr Peter Jackson
Mr Stephen Parker
Mr William Irvine
Mr Graham Hardie
So Mr Parker sat on a impartiality hearing, then later chaired my hearing......I complained about Mr Parkers conflicts of interest, his statement contradicts all the evidence below.....
Now.....is that Mr Jackson in the Photo with Darnley?
-
In box me if anyone knows a decent lawyer, that takes pro bono cases......I would love them to defend this....
And Max, answer my queries please.....
-
So how do you feel about financing this charade,
.....paying hundreds of dollars to practice a craft that you have learnt and earnt by sitting an apprenticeship,
.....while others get given their tickets after a chat,
......told to do CPD because your incompetent if you don't, while they make such a mess of the cert system (with a disclaimer reflecting the unreliability of the system they managed) well.... it gets taken off them,
......act illegally for years giving the finger to the industry and recommendations of the government, illegally taking 2 million buck off us all....so they change the law to suit,
....they pontificate about safety when they screw a guy over for not putting a strap on a cylinder, at an unfinished job, but then tell an elderly customer to shut their window when they use a califont fitted too close to their window,
I don't know how you all feel about financing this train wreck......but I am a bit over it
-
These people have always been(in my opinion ) puppets of the m.p.a & bloody hard to deal with, but badger you have shown them to be a corrupt,underhand,uncaring,ass covering, malicious bunch of pricks pissing in each others pockets .I admire you for managing to try to sort this the correct way because if they had treated me & my wife & kids like this they would by now have a new policy on their own personal security. I don't know any lawyers I can recommend & feel a bit helpless to your cause but if you need anything picked up or dropped off in the Auckland area contact me .I have emailed cambell live ,stick with it ,don't let it lie & good luck you will need it
-
Day light mate its the only way.....public scrutiny.
.....if any one wants to help just print off some of this crap and take it to work, the smoko room, the pub...any where. Start a discussion.
-
Just copy the link above and send it to MP's, media, TV any way that this can be aired...spread it on facebook or twiter, anywhere.
I have seen how they close ranks and risk the public's health and safety, just to protect their pals....anyone who thinks this is ok has a problem, FFS it could be your relatives or friends homes or just some innocent poor bugger who has bought a house and wants to keep his/her family warm and safe....and these people protect those that put all this at risk.....it isn't normal, to not have empathy for others and feel nothing when you put them at risk.....well according to the dictionary that makes you a psychopath or a sociopath....
Look at just the refusal to look at a legionnaires risk below and the elderly couples califont, it is sickening, I think it is bloody criminal.
They are charged with looking after the publics interest with regards to our industry.....but from my experience they don't.
-
I sent this to the Ombudsman
Dear Mr Patterson,
Ref 310809.
I am in receipt of your two letters dated 30 May and 13 June 2014. I also would like to take the opportunity to thank you for extending my date of reply.
I fear that I may not have made myself clear to you and your office. My complaint is not about the outcome of the biased and flawed hearing and slanted investigation.
My complaint is about the flawed and biased investigation and the subsequent stacked hearing that I was subjected to by the Board and it’s so called “impartial” investigator, the Board’s words not mine. This same Board who are willing to ignore blatant conflicts of interest and firm evidence that points to my old boss and are quite happy with the withholding and misrepresentation of evidence by their appointed so called “impartial” investigator. This is my complaint.
It concerns me greatly that your office appears to be putting so much emphasis and weight on the 33 page report written by the Board and Secretariat, who of course will have put a great deal of effort into excusing themselves. This is confusing to say the least. It is a kin to they themselves judging themselves impartial, (an oxy-moron and very bad grammar to say the least), which apparently no one has any concerns with either.
In point 1 of your letter dated 30th May, it appears there is some confusion over my situation, I did not sit a prescribed course of “INSTRUCTION”, which implies, even demands, the learning of new skills and knowledge, skills and knowledge that I was deemed by the Board to have lacked.
I was in fact ASSESSED…. learning nothing new. I am sure I could have learned a lot from the assessor as he was very knowledgeable, but the “course” prescribed by the Board wasn’t available, and so I was assessed. As this "punishment" imposed by the Board did not exist, I was forced to pay someone to assess me and this then imposed yet further additional costs.
Of note I was told by this assessor that I would be within the top 10% of people he had ever assessed, this he discovered after my assessment, when I had not been taught anything new. I was assessed on my already attained knowledge and skills (I did this assessment with my arm in a full plaster cast; perhaps this is where I dropped 10%). This is the same knowledge that I had used to position the califont. Your office is charged with seeing fair play served; do you think this is fair?
Are double standards fair? Is it fair to have been financially forced to sell my home, to have lost my business and reputation and been subjected to a witch-hunt when it appears that there is no consistency in the actions and findings of the Board? They appear to apply certain rules for some and ignore the same rules for others.
Of note, and this is why I requested an extension in my time of reply, I have recently been made aware that the Board has received a complaint from an elderly couple who complained about an installation of a califont, this califont was positioned much nearer than the califont in my one and only standing charge, by some 6 inches to two openable windows.
I have been told that the Board’s advice to them was to “close the windows when you use it” and did not pursue it any further. I have requested a clarification of this to the Board in the form of an OIA request, Doc 1 in attachments. I have copied your office in to this OIA request, as well as another OIA request to see if they have taken any action in the case which involved the very sad situation of a young lady losing her life; her horrific situation is to be found on this link, http://www.maoritelevision.com/news/national/native-affairs-lesleys-legacy. Doc 2 in attachments.
I ask you Mr Patterson is this Board effective? Which way do you think the Board will lead our industry and protect our public with these mixed and conflicting messages? What messages are they sending the people of this country when in one explosion they are willing to let it go with no one held accountable, even though there is evidence that indicates someone? And in another explosion, that actually took the life of an innocent, as far as I am aware, do nothing.
I am told that this distraught elderly couple, mentioned above, have since withdrawn their complaint and are on anti stress medication due to this terrible situation. Do these people in their twilight years deserve this? I have promised to leave them out of this until it is vitally necessary because of this stress that they have been subjected to. This double standard shown by the Board, do you think it is fair?
This goes toward showing that the Board haven’t changed since my hearing and are still using one rule for one, and ignoring other rules for others; this double standard has only just come to light in recent weeks. Do you think this fair?
Of note the customer involved in my case, the customer who owned the dwelling that was subject to charges laid for a califont installation at Malvern Av, had laid no complaint and had never in 6 years smelt any fumes, this is because the position of his califont was more open to a cross air supply and had a greater clearance to the floor, their califont was placed under one restrained opening window (only opening to 100mm as it was restrained by safety chains). This window opening into a very large open plan room and with its powered flue issuing into a much larger, clear and open garden, this was all taken into account when I positioned it. Fitted 40 mm over the 500mm minimum from the window, as per the tech note I had.
But the califont where the Board has apparently told the people to “close the window when you use it”, these poor people who have actually complained about fumes entering their home, their califont is positioned in a more enclosed area and is much nearer the floor, fitted under two windows that open, unrestrained, to much smaller rooms, (which is a concern due to the availability of free air, i.e. volume, for the dilution of these flue gases), and the elderly couple’s califonts power flue is issuing into a more enclosed and partially covered area with a deck and railings to one side. Is this Fair Mr Patterson? Is the Board’s apparent blasé flippant hypocrisy fair? This apparent attitude of the Board is where my complaint lies, right here. Doc 3 in attachments for photos of the califonts positioning.
In point 2 of your letter of 30th May, you speak of my lack of attempts in airing my concerns and the use of a “British Standard” at the High Court Appeal. I ask you to look at the recent reply I have received from the High Court, a reply to my request for a transcript of this appeal.
Please also see my extensive written submission to the High Court, already supplied to your office.
This recent application for a transcript for my appeal was made to enable me to show you that I was told categorically to talk only about the distance from the window to the califont by Justice Kos and had actually tried to air my concerns. The reply to my recent transcript application is below.
From: Stack, Michaela
Sent: Tuesday, 3 June 2014 12:09
To: Paul & Emma Gee
Subject: RE: hearing transcrpit.
Mr Gee
Thank you for your email. As you are aware this matter was an "Appeal" hearing before the High Court. No witnesses were called to give evidence at the High Court hearing and the parties relied on written submissions to present their arguments to the Court. Therefore no transcript would have been made. It is usual procedure that no transcripts are taken for civil appeal hearings.
Therefore I am unable to provide any transcript.
Kind Regards
Michaela Stack
Deputy Registrar
Wellington High Court
email : michaela.stack@justice.govt.nz
My highlights in red above. As you know, I did make an extensive written submission for my appeal, which I have provided to your office, detailing my concerns that you say I did not try to submit. So in effect I did make a valid attempt to address this and other issues, and as I can take it was read by Justice Kos I do not know why it isn’t in his summing up.
All the testimony, evidence and opinions issuing from my impartiality hearing and my actual hearing. All given so much credence by the Board and by Justice Kos appear to be based solely on the foundation of the integrity and reliability of the Board’s appointed so called “impartial” investigator and his opinion, even down to the strict enforcement of an acceptable solution, a NON COMPULSORY acceptable solution, the investigator offered no physical evidence to make his point, it was based solely on his opinion and translation of the NZ 5261 and a contradictory table that he helped write.
I was told at my impartiality hearing that as Mr Hammond hadn’t been shown to have acted egregiously, that he was deemed to be suitable and the right person for the job, even in light of all the conflicts of interest I had raised.
I ask you Mr Patterson, is this investigator, who withheld forensic photos which proved my point that I had maintained for two years, these same forensic photos taken before he was appointed as the investigator, the same photos which were in all probability in his possession as and when I told him at interview that it was my opinion that the pipe work had been altered after my initial pipe installation…. the same investigator who misrepresented evidence and was prepared to ignore his own huge conflicts of interest, is he suitable? Has he acted egregiously? Has he any integrity? Do you value his opinion? This where my complaint lies.
Is it fair that Mr Hammond’s colleague of many years, a Stephen Parker who was chair of my hearing, the same Chair who closed down this very hearing, just as my advocate was cross examining Mr Hammond about the califont measurement from an openable window and trying to get the investigator to clarify and give his reasons for his “opinion” on the clearance of the califont? This is the basis for my complaint.
It is the reliance on this one mans “opinion” by the involved authorities’, to base the whole ruination of my life, business and reputation, that I base my complaint.
I base my complaint on the Board’s willingness to ignore these blatant facts and cover for Mr Hammond….. which I suppose is understandable, after all, the Board did appoint Mr Hammond….the same Mr Hammond, an ex Board member, who had lobbied extensively for the deregulation of the gas industry and pushed for the self certification gas cert system to be introduced, this same self certing system shown to be wanting……..by none other than John Darnley, my old boss…….the same John Darnley who was gifted his license by Mr Hammond, gifted to Mr Darnley with no formal training….who was also a fellow member of NZIGE and other gas groups with Mr Hammond, Mr Parker and Mr Bickers…..Please Mr Patterson explain to me why this is acceptable. Explain to me, if you explain nothing else, why this is acceptable and why these blatant conflicts of interests should be ignored. Here is the heart of my complaint.
For your office to apparently be so willing to rely on the Board’s own excuses while they are ignoring the unsuitability of Mr Hammond is reason for concern. You are relying on the Board’s own spin for your reasons to not investigate, I believe this is unfounded and I will ask the human rights commission and perhaps even the leaders of our Commonwealth if they think this is reasonable. This same Board, who have misquoted me, prejudiced all the witness’s to all the sites of charges and told untruths about me and sent vile perverted case notes to my home. I will never let this lie and am in communication with a law firm to pursue this further if you decide to go on the path you appear to be following.
Is this conflicted and biased man, Mr Hammond, a reliable person for both the Board and Justice Kos, even the Ombudsman, to totally base their judgment on, up holding this last and final charge out of 44 trumped up charges? Is it fair for your office to listen to this man, to give him credibility? He has acted egregiously. This is my complaint.
Think on this, I feel it is relevant because of papers you have written. As you are aware, I had spent 6 years warning about my old boss, about him altering my certs after I had signed them, not forging my signature as your letter of 30th May has said.
As you know at one point I had a letter sent on my behalf in 2006 by Nick Smith MP, amongst many other attempts by myself to highlight the short comings of my old boss. Ironic, because I also have a photo of several Board members and the “later to be appointed” investigator pictured in 2006 along with my old boss at a NZIGE meeting, all of them paid up long serving members of the same interest groups.
Basically I was, in 2006, complaining about my old boss, to the very same Board members pictured with him in the very same year, all members of the same club, also present in this photo is the man later appointed to investigate the explosion AND who had awarded my old boss his full licence…along with the chair of my hearing Stephen Parker…..all in the same picture, all paid up members of the same group, three years before the explosion. I actually have more similar photos taken at NZIGE seminars.
All of this in contradiction to Mr Hammonds own signed affidavit, an affidavit written about how well he knew my old boss and how many times he had met him, is Mr Hammond the right person for the job? Is it fair? This is where my complaint lies.
Nick Smith MP stated in a letter that if the Board had heeded my warnings then the explosion “could have been averted”, written two years after the explosion. Is it fair that I lost so much? Doc 4 in attachments. And the Labour MP, Maryan Street believes I was served an injustice Doc 5 in attachments.
This is why I believe it may be relevant to you as I think you said it best in these comments attributable to a Prof Ron Patterson; I take it this is you.
In reading Doc 6 in attachments, please replace doctors with tradesman and the Medical Board with this Plumbers Board when rereading these notes, excerpt below:-
First, what do I mean by evidence? My Oxford English dictionary tells me that the word comes via Old French from the Latin evidentia, meaning ‘obvious to the eye or mind’ – from videre, to see. This is revealing, since one of the most common criticisms of medical (or gas ?) regulators when a licensed doctor has harmed patients, is that the board turned a ‘blind eye’ to the available evidence.
And from another paper….
Finding effective ways to raise concerns within the health (or may be gas?) system is a particular concern. Too often, health professionals (or may be gasfitters?) who attempt to do so lack institutional support and are met by denial and resistance. Even external inquiry bodies learn to expect re-litigation of findings by interested parties, denigration by critics, and revisionism by subsequent commentators who did not hear all the evidence and sometimes seem wilfully blind to it!
* My additions in black.
How about adding to this statement above…..That these “raisers of concern” are being set up and made a scapegoat when all that they had warned about comes to pass, nearly killing someone. Isn’t the Board denying and resisting my complaint, just as they did with my warnings, made 6 years prior to the explosion.
I ask you Mr Patterson. What is the difference between a patient’s health and safety to that of paying customer of a tradesman? Or are the rights of a gasfitter and his customer to be deemed less than that of a health professional and his patient? After all we are licence holding practitioners and have in the past been over seen by the health system. I was set up as a scape-goat, this is my complaint.
Doesn’t a patient pay for a service from a health professional and in doing so they should be able to expect to be kept safe and healthy after procuring these services, please explain to me the difference? I say this because a man nearly died in an explosion and NO ONE has been held accountable but I have been made the scapegoat. What message does this send?
Here’s an analogy for you. How does it sit with you if…….. a “health professional” was to be gifted his full practicing licence because he was a pharmaceutical salesman?........Then a well meaning, fully trained health practitioner had aired concerns about the obvious lack of ability of this untrained “gifted” licence holder for 6 years, and was later proven right in his concerns when a patient nearly died………but as the well meaning, fully trained person had signed a prescription (which was manipulated after signing) was then made the scapegoat, by the very person appointed to investigate, this same person who had also gifted the licence to the pharmaceutical salesman, and was in several interest groups with this salesman. Now apply this rational to mine and Mr Darnley’s situation, in light of your publications. Is this fair? How would the author of the above presentation feel about this state of affairs? A presentation about, of all things, “self regulation” and Board’s ignoring evidence.
All the evidence points to my old boss, he actually faced a charge for this explosion but it disappeared with no relevant questioning or a hearing. Is this fair? Doc 7 in attachments. You’ll notice that this letter mentions 3.7 of the report (the 33 page report that is mentioned above and in your correspondence). Point 3.7 makes no mention of the charge at the site of the explosion. Also a list of the charges laid against Mr Darnley has no mention of the explosion at Milton Street. How can someone face a charge then have it disappear with no trial/hearing or relevant questions? Is it fair?
I ask you, is it fair to base your opinion that my old boss was investigated thoroughly and adequately just because the investigator said he did? This same investigator who was also my old boss’s fellow member of NZIGE and the same person who had gifted my old boss his licence…..the same investigator, who withheld forensic photos, misrepresented and ignored evidence?
This same Mr Hammond who was willing to ignore, amongst other ignored evidence, a third hose supplied to supply the two fryers, this third hose sold well after, months after, I had left Allgas’s employment and a long time before the secondary work covered by cert 345138 for a pizza oven….this same hose being the very one that caused the explosion, the same hose that, in the opinion of the forensic investigator, David Neale, had had its sealing outer rubber coating cut away, the same outer coating that makes the hose gas tight. Is this fair? This is where my complaint lies. Doc 8 & 9 in attachments.
You mention the Board’s 33 page report. As you appear to have a copy please look at page 31, point 4.6, Doc 10 in attachments. I believe this double speak spin doctoring is part of the cover up and one of the root causes for making me a scapegoat, its plain to see for those willing to see. Cert 345138, a cert for the last, most recent work carried out at the site of the explosion, the same cert 345138 mentioned in the Board’s 33 page report, this is also the same cert 345138 mentioned in the Dept Of Labour (DOL) original complaint. Two pages of Doc 11 in attachments.
The DOL author of this letter of complaint told my lawyer right at the beginning of this fiasco that, at no point, was my work of concern to DOL. I have since personally talked to the author Mr Windleburn; he has no problem with my work either. To ignore this. This is where my complaint lies.
I ask you to read the DOL complaint and ask yourself who in this letter of complaint would a fair minded lay person think was more deserving of a thorough investigation.
· The fully trained Gas Service Engineer who had complained about Mr Darnley, specifically about dodgy certs covering dodgy work for 6 years and came forward freely.
· Or the person gifted his licence with no formal training, whom the Board had received letters of concern about, specifically dodgy work covered by dodgy certs, who was the last person to have worked at the site of the explosion but didn’t register the cert for this last work, but saw fit to issue a carbon copy to the customer, i.e. a dodgy cert covering not only dodgy work…. but an explosion? The same person who ran the company that sold the third hose and this same company also showing a willingness to act in my name when Allgas requested to alter a cert 3 months after I had left its employ? Doc 12 in attachments.
I find it bizarre that a copy or cert 345138 was entered into the Board’s own website, but they claim not to have received a copy. In the Board’s 33 page report it mentions that a “fox pro” entry is there for this cert I should imagine that this system would require a log in pass word for the person entering the certs information and this person could attest to whether the Board had in deed received a copy. How on earth does all the information on the carbon copies get on to the fox pro system, even down to the correct cert number…..without receiving a copy of the original! To deny receiving this cert alone deserves an investigation.
All available copies of cert 345138 lack the legal recording of a gas leak test, even the electronic version. The only copy missing…. the original! This is the only copy which was, in all probability, received by the Board.
I put it to you that it is possible that this original copy of 345138 was, in all probability disposed of and shredded when the Lawyers acting for the owners of the exploding chipshop asked for a copy of all gas safety certs for their gasfitting work carried out at their chipshop. Perhaps you could ask Belinda Greer, a worker for the Board. Doc 13 in attachments. Look at Doc 13 and reread the 33 pages of excuses in their report, it is nonsense.
This Cert 345138 is actually mentioned by number in the DOL complaint. This is where my complaint lies.
I ask you in all fairness, if the person responsible for the last work installed at the exploding chipshop, the same person who according to the Board didn’t register this cert for this work with the Board. But he saw fit to issue a carbon copy to the customer, and even kept a carbon copy himself as the supplier and another copy himself as the certifying gasfitter. With this same cert 345138 that appears in the complaint by DOL by actual number, the same cert mentioned in 4.6 on page 31 of the Board’s report……how can this man, the person responsible for initiating cert 345138, face a charge for the explosion, but then that charge disappears with no relevant questioning, trial or hearing? These are per the Board’s own correspondence. It is here my complaint lies, this “non registration” came to light 8 days after the explosion and months before the Board appointed an investigator. Is that Fair?
I ask you Mr Patterson……..how would the Board look if they had openly accepted an incomplete gas safety certificate for the last work done at a site that then later exploded…..lacking of all things a gas leak test? How would the Lawyers for the chipshop owners have acted on such findings?
In ever more double standards a person involved in yet another case, a situation where there was a pre-signing of some 560 blank certificates, which were on sold, including to unqualified lay persons, with 90% of the work covered by these blank certs done against regulation and non compliant…..with some 16 very dangerous, with the signatory on record as saying he signed and checked every job. What would you think if someone involved in this fiasco, probably the signatory of these blank certs…..still has charges before the Board some 5 years later? Is this fair? These double standards, this is where my complaint lies. Doc 14 in attachments.
The Board are also willing to ignore a potential fraud and manipulation of gas certs to cover dangerous work, this was discovered at my hearing, and the Board did nothing. Is this fair? This is yet another double standard and is where my complaint lies. Doc 15 in attachments. The letters sent by the Board, that are mentioned in this letter of excuse in Doc 15 were issued well before the manipulation of the certs was revealed at my hearing, it is actually one of the letters that the Board had to apologise to me for, because it contained untruths about my ability to act illegally in other areas of NZ. Ironically this letter of untruths sent by the Board came about because of the situation where the man mentioned above signed 560 certs in the North Island, apparently I got lumped in with him, but he potentially still has charges before the Board, even right up to today. This farcical state of affairs is where my complaint lies.
The list of poor performance by this Board is long and deserves a proper independent investigation. It does not deserve for the Board to be apparently protected and sheltered by those, like yourself, who would take all that the Board say on face value and fall for their spin doctoring and double speak, this is a mistake.
I was told by Mr Christopher Littlewood that all you could do was make a recommendation……please recommend that a proper, fair and independent investigation is held, I will do the rest, along with the support of well over 1200 members of the Plumbers Federation, a group set up because of 15 years of mismanagement by this Board. Sadly my case is but one of many.
But apparently they are willing to use discretion in how I was investigated.......fairness for all, is their motto......hmmm really? They seem more like damage control.....they took two years to fob me off like this.......fairness for who?
You got to read their replies in context.....see the reply attached
-
If you play them on their pitch with their ref, behind closed doors, using their rules......well your going to get the same as you have had for the last 10 years.....
In a public forum, with NZ watching....well its just embarrassing.......they would be gone by lunch time.....please share this around as much as you can.....
Or later on in your life......get ready to assume the position if they ever feel like doing you over......and not just for a work mistake, you could offend one at a function or god forbid speak your mind......I had all three apparently.....
Vampires live off sucking other dry.......but drag them out in to the day light.......poooffff........ up in a cloud of rancid smoke.....
-
These are Mr Uren's own words, now bear in mind he has access to the files.....
Q. What about Mr Darnley?
A. I can't recall.
Q. When you were checking the files of Mr Darnley did you notice if he'd had previous encounters with the Board?
A. Ah yes, Mr Darnley has a fairly extensive file.
Q. And do you know if there was anything on there about gas certificates being altered or created by Mr Darnley?
A. It's been a while since I've looked at the file, I can't say categorically so I'd need to have a look at it again.
Q. You are a wee bit hesitant there, do you think there was something in there regarding -
A. I'm just saying I can't recall.
Q. You can't recall?
A. Yeah.
Really Mr Uren......extensive? A past history.....has he done this before. Please explain mate, seen you on here before, chirp up handsome.
Darnley was working in Nelson for well over 10 years might be nearer 20 years, I saw him at the end after he had had some "experience" and "cpd"......can you imagine what's out there.......it is a gamble not to look into this.
All you have to do Max is act on the legionnaires job, then investigate the other dangerous work.....or do he know where all the skeletons are...
-
Think about it......... it all could have been sorted way back.......now if you match the cert numbers to the ones she is on about to the ones mentioned in the other letter......well they don't match. So was she misleading or was it a "mistake"....or did someone at Allgas have a habit of messing about with the certs?
I complained about a job I had refused to sign off as it was unfinished, but Darnley (or someone at Allgas) had issued the cert to the supplier and owner, with out my signature (look at the mess on the pink copy).....I saw a copy when I left and went to work else where. I also found out that there was 4 books of certs ordered in my name, have a look at the copy of the certs.....
So in Colleen Singleton's letter she refers to a batch being in John Darnley's name....batch 294351 - 294390 (a batch of 4 books of certs), this was my first letter, look a the date at the top. 23/2/04.
Then a year later I went to a job and saw another job, so I wrote again, this time they list another batch of 4 books of certs, identified by the numbers, this was a year later, 28/1/05
After well over a decade of this do you think I am just going to walk away, I have waited over two years to be fobbed off by the Ombudsman, is this reasonable? Believe it or not.....I have tried to be brief in all this.....I got heaps, and it is spread all over the world.
-
So guys I have used some kiwi ingenuity.....some No 8 wire and a smoke bomb.......
Now the top of the guttering is about 5mm lower that the 540mm, that was what the one last charge was....so its about 535mm to the guttering.......
Now also please bare in mind that the wall that the califont was fitted on was flat(the guttering in this photo protrudes quite a bit).....
And also bare in mind that the window had chains to restrict the opening to 100mm of the window.
Now have a look at my previous post and compare to this series of photo's, basically I lit a smoke bomb and kept my finger on the shutter.....
I did try a thermal imager, but the bloody gas moves too fast to register!!!!!! shot straight out at 90 degs to the wall AWAY from the window.
Now have a look at my testimony, I don't even have to "adduce" any new evidence.....and look at Hammond's statement.....that he had no idea that fumes were entering the building!
The pipe is protected and marked I assure you, properly sized and all to code.
This is what I mean by the Board thinking that shit rolls up hill......its against the laws of physics......
-
The garage is over 3 meters away.......
-
Like I said on planet Board...the fumes can do a 180.....then even though they are hot they can sink down them go back up into a window 100mm open.......
-
They said in high court they should be given my weight because they are a professional Board.......what weight do I get when I prove that what I had maintained for years was true and the Board are so very wrong......
Is this reasonable.........
Now read the dealing with unreasonable people policy and apply it the Board.......one rule for us and one rule for them.......
Is this reasonable?
-
So you have seen the evidence and the transcripts, and the testimony of the inquisitor, he had no idea if any fumes were entering the building.....
So here is the testimony of the owner, sorry the window was restrained to 7 inches past the sill, my mistake. (did it from memory), it was a typo.
Have a look at my diagrams from the hearing, and match it to the transcript I have mentioned below, I am talking about the difference between a balanced or gravity flue, and a power flue......look at the photos and the diagram....pretty close, if not identical......
What happens when an "expert" gets it so wrong, and the defendant gets it correct......do you go with the expert, because he's the....umm expert.....well he's not much of an expert if he don't know what he is on about....is he! Forgetting how he framed me mind!
......but apparently on planet Board the laws of physics don't apply........
-
Perhaps its a chance to right old wrongs......sent tonight.....lets see fair play.....
Mr Pedersen,
Please can you review the Board’s position on my last and final charge. I have done no wrong.
In light of these photos attached, which prove my testimony to be correct and the investigators incorrect.
Please base your reconsideration on my already entered testimony at the hearing, no addducement required….. all my testimony is true and my diagrams correct, please also see Mr Hammonds statement at my hearing that he had no idea if the fumes were entering the building.
The top of the guttering is 535 mm from the top of the flue spigot, and bear in mind that the wall would have been flat and the window restricted to opening 100mm, it is an impossibility for the fumes to enter. Photo attached…also attached is a photo where someone from the Board told the customer to “just shut the window when you use it”. For some scale the garage opposite is over 3 mtrs away.
It is an “Emperors New Clothes” scenario to hold on to this one last charge. The photos prove what the owner stated at my hearing and that my testimony was true, that it was never a problem.
The Board has based their whole decision on the “opinion” of one conflicted person……I lost my home and business because of this……is this reasonable?
Best Regards Paul Gee
-
Any gasfitter worth his salt knows the large amount of smoke one of those bombs make.....there is not a wisp of smoke near the wall, from the califont flue spigot, all the way...right up to the sky........
I lost my home and business because of this one man's opinion, an opinion that is incorrect..........is that reasonable?
-
So here is the press release...........
You'll notice they think it was two "fires", that caused the explosion......a typo, should be fryers.... :o
When you know what I know, look at them pontificating.....and they don't bother with the elderly couples califont.....I don't think they know what reasonable is.......its all about the context.....
PRESS RELEASE | Nelson gasfitter’s conduct found unacceptable12 Aug 2011 (Fri)
PRESS RELEASE | 12 July 2011
A Nelson gasfitter has been found guilty of professional shortcomings and unacceptable conduct. The Board has found that Paul Gee breached the Plumbers, Gasfitters and Drainlayers Act when he carried out gasfitting work on a house in Malvern Avenue, Nelson.Mr Gee incorrectly installed a gas water heater by not allowing sufficient clearance between it and an openable window. It was installed by Mr Gee too close to an openable window, which created a risk that products of combustion and carbon monoxide could have entered into the house.
The Plumbers, Gasfitters and Drainlayers Board decided the case against Mr Gee in relation to work carried out on six other properties in the Tasman Bay and Westport areas including the Milton Street takeaways shop in Nelson was not established. The takeaways was the scene of an explosion in April 2009.The cause was found to be a gas leak, which developed at the rear of two gas fires.
The case against Mr Gee was not established at properties at Main Road, Havelock, Greenwood Street, Motueka, Pah Street at Motueka High School, Dommett Street, Westport and Powick Street, Westport.
For the charge Mr Gee was found guilty of, the tribunal said: “Mr Gee is not a mere plumber as he referred to himself, but an experienced gasfitter. For a practitioner of Mr Gee’s status, these applied professional shortcomings are seen as being very serious and his conduct unacceptable.”
In considering the charge, the Board noted Mr Gee’s lack of appreciation of process, objectives and accountability when signing gas certification certificates and certifying gas installations.
The Board also said there was a demonstrated lack of understanding about the reasons for maintaining adequate clearances between instantaneous gas water heating appliances and openable windows and the risk that carbon monoxide presents.
The Department of Labour laid a complaint with the PGDB about the Milton Street matter and the PGDB undertook its own investigation. As a consequence, a further six properties were also identified as potentially posing a risk to the health and safety of the public.
The Board deals with the competency of gasfitters and any disciplinary actions that arise from that. For compensation, any affected parties need to lodge a civil claim with the courts.
The Board will now arrange a meeting between the parties to decide on penalties, after which time Mr Gee will have the right of appeal.
This is the press release BEFORE my right of appeal, which they tried to block........reasonable?
-
Sent this morning to OUR minister......
Hi Nick,
Due to this proof of the fumes, NEVER, being a threat to the occupiers, and the Board’s blatant targeting of myself, right from the get go, from the first 7 sites that didn’t make it to the 44 charges, to the 42 charges that failed including the site of the explosion, and now the irrefutable proof that these photo’s provide.
All the ignored evidence, withheld evidence and lies.
Also the Board’s willingness to ignore several cases that my hearing raised, including a fraud and a legionnaires’ risk (in your constituency). Also the Board’s willingness to ignore an elderly couple who actually made a complaint about fumes entering their home.
I am formally asking for a judicial review, I believe the Board have failed the NZ public.
I look forward to your reply, if you can’t help, please direct me to someone who can.
Best Regards Paul Gee
-
lets see how we go.........
Dear Mr Gee
On behalf of Hon Dr Nick Smith, Minister for Building and Housing, thank you for your email of 3 February 2015 regarding your dispute with the Plumbers, Gasfitters and Drainlayers Board.
Your comments have been noted and you may expect a reply in due course.
Kind regards,
Kate Dixon
Ministerial Secretary
Office of Hon Dr Nick Smith
Minister for the Environment | Minister for Building and Housing
Ph: 817-6805 | Fax: 817-6505
-
Below in blue, my Reply, all I have done to irk the Board is try to warn about the very real risk to the public that one man posed (not all the gasfitters in my area, as the Board tried to make out).
At the time of my first complaint....my wife was pregnant and this gave me a whole different perspective on life. Once I was told by the previous contractor that when he told Darnley he couldn't fit a type of heater in a bedroom, Darnley just crossed out bedroom and put study......this could be a child's bedroom, plus all the BS I saw, made me sick.....so I complained to the authorities.
I had to leave it for a while after my boy was born because he had two massive operations, I told Colleen Singleton about the ops (when I had to go to Wellington for two weeks, to resit all my plumbing licences, remember Darnley got given his full ticket).....Singleton said she wasn't interested in my private life (thought she was a nurse!)........then my father dumped my mother on my door step after 36 years of marriage and the stress revealed her emphascymia. My mum came right, just as the chipshop blew up.
Thank you Kate,
Please can you pass to Nick the link below, it is to a Plumbers Forum where I have posted some, and I mean some of the evidence that shows irrefutably how photos and Allgas invoicing was ignored, misrepresented or withheld at my hearing. Done I believe to facilitate a premeditated assault of my character.
Some of the people responsible are still at the Board or Secretariat and have continued to cover this up.
This cover up was done while very real faulty and dangerous work “backed” by a manipulation of the gas safety certificate system.
This has been ignored with very real risks to the NZ public. With the people of our constituency of Nelson bearing the brunt of this risk, I think it is reprehensible that these people have done this. I hope the Minister can see my point.
I understand that most of this was not done under his watch so to speak, but it has happened and requires fixing. I am happy to meet with Nick any time that is convenient to us both.
Here’s the link.
http://www.plumbers.co.nz/forum/fellow-practitioners-update/41/fellow-practitioner-issue-236-dated-12-december-2014/1810/msg9335#msg9335
Kate, someone nearly died at Milton Street Chip Shop in Nelson, with a gas certificate intended to record details for safety….. “lost” by the Board, it is a certificate for the last work done…. that all available copies show a lack of testing for leaks at the site of an explosion (there is even an electronic copy on their website), and no one to this day has been held accountable, I don’t think that is right.
I am guessing that you might have friends and family that live here in Nelson, please Kate….. please….. ask each and every one of them if they have had any gas work done by a John Darnley, if so please tell them to get it checked. Please read my attachment for some background.
I made good money fixing this idiots mistakes, it was never about Darnley, it was about him being willing to put people’s loved ones in harms way.
All I have done to put the Board’s nose out of joint….. is to try to tell the powers that be, there is a problem and our neighbours, friends, family are/might be at risk.
Best Regards Paul Gee
-
Obviously my mother still has emphyscemia (she collapsed when my father told her), it was her nervous breakdown that she has got over (she is a terrier). My wife sat with her first born with a shaved head, no hair and 49 stiches on his beautiful head, with my mum rocking back and forth picking her nails, crying. That's why I paid my charity donation to the Ronald McDonald House, instead of a tax evading corrupt Board.
Then the chipshop exploded, just as it all this other stuff came right.....then my wife had the sick and twisted case notes sent to her, while her husband got framed for nothing, then was financially forced to sell her home and live in a caravan for a whole winter, collecting drinking water and emptying a chemical toilet. I had to work away for two years. Before any smart arse says anything about hooking up water for her, we were forced to move into a shack in the country with no mains facilities, our old home had just been finished, before we had to sell it, we were mortgage free too.
For these reasons I will never let this go, and really hope they don't push me too far, we all have breaking points (and by breaking point, I don't mean I will be broken, just I will snap)
-
Paul
I can't begin to imagine how this has been for you. Everyone, every single bloody tradesperson working as a plumber, a gasfitter or a drainlayer could find themselves in a similar position. 42 counts that were laid against you - all failed to fly. How could they come up with 42 counts that wouldn't stick? By this I mean why did they lay the charges when it appears the evidence just didn't appear to be there. The shoddy and incompetent investigation is a shameful blight on the PGDB's copy book. A man's reputation is all he has when everything else is stripped bare. There hasn't even been an acknowledgement that they got it so wrong on so many levels.
To "accidently" send out letter to your clients implicating you in the fraudulent selling of gas certificates should have cost people their jobs - staff at the PGDB I mean. And certainly who ever was overseeing it should have lost their job. I believe it took six months for them to acknowledge the massive cock up this was - but of course then it was too late.
Who watches the watchers? Who indeed? The Minister - he doesn't seem interested - the industry themselves - well maybe they are waking up a bit, but they seem too scared, the Federation - I hope so - but they need the backing of their members - because the one thing that counts is numbers.
Paul - if you could have the Board's attention for five minutes - what would you tell them you wanted from them? What can put this right? Can it ever be put right?
And lastly, how are things going for you now? Are you still in the trade or have you managed to go in another direction? I sincerely hope that your wife, your sons and your mum are all faring a little better now.
-
Well what can you say.
I hope that you have some positive response from the new minister Badger, He is not doing his job if he does not follow this up. where is his responsibility? or are they all just a pack of Muppet's after all.
So we all work in fear that this could happen to us if it turns to custard. 100% liability and a punitive regulatory body that will take you to the cleaners with no right of redress it is just not right.
I believe that the board should put away their walloping stick and open dialogue with the industry in a positive and supportive way not a fear based culture. Perhaps more the way that they used to operate.
I have no problem with manning up and admitting if i have done something that is not right & to put it right. It would seem that this is not the case with everyone....
When the Federation is recognised as a legitimate voice of the industry, not just a bunch of malcontents then maybe something will change for the better.
my 10 cents worth, anyway I have to keep reasonably positive I'm too old to retrain as a balloon player 8)
-
Thanks for your tens cents Enn, if no one replies I think I am shouting out into the wind on a dark night, cheers mate for taking the time. Means heaps to me.
Jax,
The thing is it was a premeditated set up job, to frame someone to cover-up a badly run gas cert system, that resulted in an explosion.... a system that was abused to empower a small group of people (mostly untrained incompetents’ with no formal training, but had the “contacts”) while hamstringing and excluding others (basically, the rest of the fully trained industry but with no "contacts")…….this was all done with a massive risk to the public, and still ignored to this day.
This I believe is reprehensible….if it is untrue then I will expect a letter from your lawyer Max (I know you all at the Board read this forum).
Before the 44 charges were laid, 7 sites were “of interest”, I answered these so well that they didn’t even make it to the 44 charges (which they went back out to get), then they amended (changed) over 50% of these 44 charges just weeks from the hearing….I (and all credit to Wal) totally blew 42 of the 44 clean out of the water……
And you have now seen the photos that blows this last BS charge out of the water too….so I did absolutely f**** all wrong, I told the truth with good intentions, with the customers safety first and foremost, even before profit or keeping on side with a bunch of bullies, I was threatened before explosion.
I got a letter from a Board lawyer that says they checked all my work for three years, not the 10% they claimed.
Think about it haven’t these people stolen our careers and our means of making a living; while pontificating about how incompetent we are, while they make “mistakes” and have “oversights” as a regular occurrence, bailed out…….not bloody reprimanded by their minister. Changing the law, rushing it through in urgency….what a crock.
Those letters that ruined my business….these were signed by means of an “electronic signature” signed and sent out by Kern…with out checking that the contents were correct (this is their sanitised version, I believe it was done intentionally)….…..the Board have lost gas certs and accepted certs with very important info missing (missing leak testing FFS), they have lost certs then found them again…… but I was publically humiliated, before my right of appeal….. for not seeing the responsibility in signing off a gas safety cert off………..really! is this reasonable or fair.
I am borne out by the califont photos for this last charge… that what I did was right and what I said at the hearing was true, the inquisitor (not a typo) did no tests and had huge reasons for seeing me ruined. But this one bullshit charge still stands, apparently his reputation is worth more than mine.
It was a search for a scapegoat, to hide how bad the cert system was run that resulted in an explosion, done at my expense whilst terrorising my wife.
I had to listen to other tradesman call me dodgy and knock me for dobbing everyone in (the Board audited two jobs of most if not all the gasfitter’s in my area), that’s if I was lucky enough to actually be on site, because the lying letters that were written……well they killed my business, and all the many other “press releases” thereafter drove home the final nails in its coffin.
Customers knew me as the “guy who blew up the chippy”…..after I had probably got into this mess trying to do right by the same customers/public trying to warn about dodgy work in their homes.
I was financially forced to sell our just finished home and leave my wife and our 4 and 6 year olds in a caravan for a whole winter, while I was working in another island…..before this I wouldn’t even go out of town with out them. I was mortgage free in a modest house with no debt, my van, tools and car all paid for.
But then….I had to listen to my wife cry in to her pillow while all this went on, then leave them all at the airport while I flew all over NZ for 5 to 6 weeks at a time, leaving them all crying, while I went and crawled under houses and worked in shit. If I was lucky I might be able to afford a week home with them, every 6 weeks. I did this for two years, sleeping the rest of the time in a caravan, the same one my family lived in.....anyone want to buy it, we don't like going on holiday anymore in it.
Paul - if you could have the Board's attention for five minutes - what would you tell them you wanted from them? What can put this right? Can it ever be put right?
• An apology to my wife, hand written and with sincerity, hand delivered.
• For the Board to put as much effort, money, time and publicity in restoring my reputation as they did in ruining it.
• Leave me where they found me…in a mortgage free home with a business so I can feed my kids and spend time with them.
• Return to me and my wife my sons missing “family” years, Joe’s years of 4 to 6 and Mike’s years of 6 to 8.
• Remove from my memory of seeing my wife hysterical sobbing thinking that these goons were threatening us with the contents of the sick and twisted case notes, because I thought about that a lot when I was living in the same caravan that she had to live in the previous year, laying there wondering if they were ok.
• And a charity boxing match with Kern.
And lastly, how are things going for you now? Are you still in the trade or have you managed to go in another direction? I sincerely hope that your wife, your sons and your mum are all faring a little better now.
I am with my family all I can be, my girl is doing very good at the local bank (I am very proud of her), I got to KNOW my wife is one hell of an amazing person, who for some strange reason thinks as much of me as I do her, my boys are amazing. We are all happier than we have been for a very long time. Since April 2009.
But I am a fully qualified certifying plumber and gasfitter, with a trade electrical ticket, 25years experience, able enough to face a directed assault by an industry Board....… who has had to start at the bottom in another industry, where I am reminded everyday that this is not my industry, but I will do it day in day out to be with my family.
-
It like a bad joke, here is the response to a request, remember the one I made whether the present chair and panel member at one of my hearings Mr Jackson, is stood next to Mr Darnley at a meeting for NZIGE, the person who most if not all the evidence points to at the site of the explosion.....apparently it is frivolous for me to ask....Max is taking his ball home.....wouldn't be easier to clear it up and just say, its not him, if its not him....wait there perhaps it is him....the plot thickens....lol.
Max appears to think that a potential serious conflict of interest is a frivolous matter, or at least me asking to find out.....
It cracks me up, I always get his replies as late as he can on a Friday, is it because he thinks I might have a beer and might get rise out of me, I don't know why he would think this.....lol, its so blatant. The letter is dated 13th , but the email is dated 12 02 15 , which is done automatic? so perhaps he wrote it yesterday but waited to send it a day later. Nice Maxy.
Max your reluctance to answer this simple question speaks volumes....your non answer lets me know, what I suspect.......
Have a look at the two responses.....so what do you guys think......could it be Mr Jackson stood next to Mr Darnley....back in 2006 when I tried to get all this looked into, before a guy nearly died in an explosion........all reattached for your convenience.....have a great week end, even you Max...lol.
-
This is a recent press release from Max.......now apply these words to how I got screwed over and how they have ignored certain jobs....its like a parallel universe....
Plumbing, gasfitting and drainlaying are regulated industries in New Zealand and it is illegal for anyone to do this work unless they are authorised to do so by the Plumbers, Gasfitters and Drainlayers Board.
The Board’s Chief Executive, Max Pedersen said: “The growth in building consent applications is positively impacting the construction sector nationwide, but this is particularly evident in Auckland.”
“As a result consumers should be on the lookout for illegal operators. History tells us that with the increase in jobs, there is always an increase in the number of illegal operators appearing.
“The health and safety risks associated with plumbing carried out by an unauthorised person are serious. Any defective work has the potential to cause disease and serious damage to the property.”
A recent industry working group calculated that 8000 more carpenters and joiners, electricians, plumbers, painters, bricklayers, drainlayers, gasfitters, insulation installers and motor mechanics will be required in Auckland by 2018.
“The Board will continue to keep a watchful eye in relation to unlicensed workers in the Auckland region,” Mr Pedersen added.
All authorised tradespeople are required to carry their current authorisation card. Consumers should ask tradespeople for this card before any work commences. This way they can be assured that the work is being done by an authorised and competent tradesperson.
If a homeowner believes that work has been done by someone who is not authorised, or has concerns about the competency of tradespeople, they can make a complaint to the Board.
Ends
With these figures in red above......how are we going to cope with people leaving in droves.........oh wait there.......there will be a monopoly.......
-
Oh wait there....... my mistake......Darnley was "authorised" after he was "given" his ticket...........so it was all ok. It is a joke.
-
I've had a look at that photo and I wouldn't be prepared to say that was Mr Jackson - it's not clear enough. Was he on the list of attendees? The only person I recognise besides Mr Parker is Dr Palmer who was the Technical Manager for Master Plumbers back in the day and he would have attended these sort of meetings as he is a pretty knowledgeable guy with plenty of technical nous. Sorry Badger, but this might be a real case of not being able to identify someone.
-
But wouldn't you ask him if its him?
It just seems strange to not answer....I totally agree it isn't clear, that's why I asked......there are enough people in the photo to prove my point about how entwined Darnley was with Hammond (the investigator) and Parker (the chair of the Board and my hearing) alone, that's bad enough mate, I just wanted to know how many others were there.
Yes I recognise Dr Palmer and a few others, but these people didn't vote themselves impartial, just before they screwed me over, just looking for a bit of clarification Jax.
The thing is I was/and am still not against the Board, Master Plumbers, NZIGE or any other groups, I am all for proper CPD and think for us to loose an overseer for the industry a complete mistake.....I just think it should be run fairly with the public's safety put before mates and little clubs.
I genuinely thought I was trying to fix things, I could see something was going to happen so I tried to warn about it....
The thing is, and I was told this by a few people......a certain person only joined these groups/clubs just so they can do what they do, sometimes tarnishing the reputations of the groups they join, but they join just to further themselves......what I am trying to say is these groups should be more pissed off with these people for dragging these groups down.
Really and I am a big boy, I can take it......WTF did I do to piss off certain plumbers, let me know, even if it is what you heard.....because I haven't got a clue, except that I tried to warn about things I thought were dangerous.
-
I just want a fair go, and I don't think that the people who are entrusted with the public's safety should do their job, especially as they are a registered charity for this purpose...is this reasonable?
Mr Pederson,
Please can you let me know when I might receive a reply to the email below? These photos prove beyond doubt that my testimony at my hearing was true and the investigators unfounded. Thus leaving me 100% innocent of any wrong doing.
Also, and the reason for this email, by means of an OIA request please can I get a copy of John Darnley’s “fairly extensive” file mentioned below in Mr Uren’s testimony from my hearing?
I believe it is a reasonable request and assure you I do not do this to be frivolous nor vexatious, but do it in the public’s interest and for the public’s safety. I do not require any names or addresses, just the content so to speak. You must understand that even though the man has retired, the work is very much still out there.
Just like the legionnaires risk that the Board are prepared to ignore, this is a massive gamble. Not to mention the hypocrisy of ignoring a very similar case to that of the one that the Board have held on to, i.e. the one mentioned below.
Of note Mr Darnley was already retired when the chip-shop exploded. His punishment, for the 100% conviction rate can be summed up to a $10,000 fine and allowed to carry on in his beachside retirement. While my 100% innocence cost me my home, business, reputation and time with my family. I think this is unreasonable.
To all you copied in, this is the person who has been ignored by the Board, where most, if not all of the evidence points to his causing, or at the very least having a massive involvement in the actions leading up to an explosion that nearly killed someone.
I am sure there was at least one other incident, that would be in this file I have requested may be more.
May I point out that he worked totally unsupervised in Nelson for well over 10 years, empowered by a full certifying licence gifted to him without any formal training by Tony Hammond, who was also gifted his full certifying licence with no formal apprenticeship. Mr Hammond was awarded this during his investigation into me while acting as the investigator for my witch-hunt.
I say to you all it is a cover up done at a very real risk to the public, it is wrong. The Board have ignored real concerns that are a risk to the public and trumped up charges to persecute me.
Please see below the testimony of Mr Uren,
Q. What about Mr Darnley?
A. I can't recall.
Q. When you were checking the files of Mr Darnley did you notice if he'd had previous encounters with the Board?
A. Ah yes, Mr Darnley has a fairly extensive file.
Q. And do you know if there was anything on there about gas certificates being altered or created by Mr Darnley?
A. It's been a while since I've looked at the file, I can't say categorically so I'd need to have a look at it again.
Q. You are a wee bit hesitant there, do you think there was something in there regarding -
A. I'm just saying I can't recall.
Q. You can't recall?
A. Yeah.
What happens if we have another “chipshop” incident?
Best Regards Paul Gee
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Paul & Emma Gee [mailto:gasnsolarservices@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, 2 February 2015 5:48 p.m.
To: 'Paul & Emma Gee'; 'Registrar'; 'communications@pgdb.co.nz'; 'complaints@pgdb.co.nz'
Cc: 'Wal Gordon'; 'Allan Day'; 'Colleen Upton'; 'Lyndon Moffitt'; 'campbelllive@tv3.co.nz'; 'Andrew Little'; 'jacinda.ardern@parliament.govt.nz'; 'Janis Adair'; 'Jude Hutton'
Subject: RE: Letter responding to 26 Nov email
Mr Pedersen,
Please can you review the Board’s position on my last and final charge. I have done no wrong.
In light of these photos attached, which prove my testimony to be correct and the investigators incorrect.
Please base your reconsideration on my already entered testimony at the hearing, no addducement required….. all my testimony is true and my diagrams correct, please also see Mr Hammonds statement at my hearing that he had no idea if the fumes were entering the building.
The top of the guttering is 535 mm from the top of the flue spigot, and bear in mind that the wall would have been flat and the window restricted to opening 100mm, it is an impossibility for the fumes to enter. Photo attached…also attached is a photo where someone from the Board told the customer to “just shut the window when you use it”. For some scale the garage opposite is over 3 mtrs away.
It is an “Emperors New Clothes” scenario to hold on to this one last charge. The photos prove what the owner stated at my hearing and that my testimony was true, that it was never a problem.
The Board has based their whole decision on the “opinion” of one conflicted person……I lost my home and business because of this……is this reasonable?
Best Regards Paul Gee
-
*they should do their job.....another typo, lol.
-
Just to be clear, all the charges that Darnley faced.... he was done for, but although he faced a charge for the chip-shop (which just "disappeared") nothing was pursued in the direction of the explosion.....you have seen some of the evidence supplied on this link.
Is this reasonable........
Of note Mr Darnley was already retired when the chip-shop exploded. His punishment, for the 100% conviction rate can be summed up to a $10,000 fine and allowed to carry on in his beachside retirement. While my 100% innocence cost me my home, business, reputation and time with my family. I think this is unreasonable.
-
So definitely, with out a shadow of any doubt….. Allgas Ltd, managed by Darnley, THE certifying gasfitter carried out the actions below....this is all available to the Board, they actually gave this evidence to me and it appears in the hearing bundle…..
No one from the office (Darnley’s Daughter and Wife) were ever questioned about it and Darnley faced a charge for the chip shop explosion but it disappeared before his hearing (all his “other” charges were substantiated)….is this reasonable……
The Ombudsman, has all this evidence too, but has used his discretion to not look at how the investigation was carried out……Fairness for All?????? Perhaps the “for” should be replaced with another F word…..
• Weeks after I had left Allgas and months after the initial install, Allgas sold the owners of the exploding chipshop another hose to one of the fryers, this was to replace a hose that had split; this replacement is the hose that caused the explosion.
• It ruptured because someone had lowered the 2 x wing backs and turned one of these wing backs 90 degrees by straightening out a 90 degree bend in the pexal pipe that supplied this wing back. This lowering and straightening out of the pipe made the bayonet point directly to the floor, nearly touching the floor, instead of to the right and much higher up.
• This lowering is also borne out by some of the 110 withheld photos taken by the forensic expert. These photos show old drill holes (the ones I did) and pipe that goes down the wall at about 30 degrees, in contrast to the rest of the install, and all the other photos taken of my work, where the pipe is level…. either horizontal or vertical, I use a level when running pipe work. I had supplied drawing to this effect before the hearing.
• This lowering caused the hose to be stressed along the stretched outer wall and split.
• The hose was also according to the forensic expert....minus some of its outer sheath, showing evidence of it being cut away.
• Altered the cylinder station from the original. This is shown by the difference between what was invoiced for at the time (Allgas invoices) billed for the initial pre-pipe and what is shown in the forensic photos of the destroyed building, Allgas were supplying the gas when the pizza oven was installed, this was when it was probably changed to allow both sides of cylinders to draw, because of the extra load of the pizza oven.
• Fitted a Pizza oven half way along, with all copies of the cert (345138, filled out by Darnley) showing the test results missing. The copy attached is the certifier’s copy, the one supplied to Dept of Labour…. after the complaint and after the explosion. This copy shows the leak test results empty. The Board claim to not have received a copy of this cert, this claim was made to the owner’s lawyer just days after he nearly died in an explosion and was laying in a burns unit in Wellington. Even though this was claimed, just days after the explosion, some one had, at the Board, entered a copy of this cert on to the “fox pro” data base not long after the time of the pizza oven’s installation.
• You’ll notice on the back of the job card (attached) that in my writing it shows that I only installed the bayonets (there are no appliances drawn), and on the front it shows another hand who has added the 2 x fryers, the 2 x cylinder numbers and a second leak test (who ever wrote this, I believe added the fryers after I did the initial pre-pipe).
• Also of note is the ink on the pink copy of the cert for the fryers is in two different colour inks, the “15” on the test date is in blue and the rest of the test date is in black along with the entries under “flue” and “ventilation”. The 2 under “quantity” has been changed, the only thing in my hand writing is the signature, the appliances being empty when I signed it.
Is this reasonable……do you have confidence in these people to go after you when it suits them, or if one of their mates is in trouble and they can go you instead of one of their cronies?
How many of you have done as you were told by your boss and not gone back to check that nothing has been added, according to the Board it is common practice for someone in the office to fill out your certs for you to sign……how are you going to prove you did nothing wrong?
Isn’t disturbing that I have this wealth of info, can make this many posts…..and the people in charge do sweet FA with the last bastion of fairness for all, using his discretion not to look at it……is this reasonable?
I was awarded a $500 cash payment from Helen Cull to go with my apology for the letters that lied about me, I told the Board to send it to The Ronald Mc Donald house in Christchurch, to the best of my knowledge they kept it, not very charitable behaviour for a charity.
How do you feel about financing this system?
No One seems to give a shit about us…..
-
Have a look at the state of this cert.....all accepted by our Board, the same Board that said I had no idea of my responsibility when signing or words to that effect.....I have heaps of certs similar, some where they have highlighted the missing details...how many of you had certs returned because of this?.....but not Darnley.
Of Note....This cert 299755 was brought up for one of my yearly audits, before the explosion, one that the auditor put a claim for and got paid for(got the paper work for that too).....he did this after I told him that I didn't finish the job or sign it off..... I handed it back to Darnley because it wasn't finished and had told Darnley that I wasn't prepared to sign it off......Along with about 30 others.
NOW COMPARE THE WRITTING ON THIS CERT 299755.....TO THE FRONT OF THE JOB CARD FOR THE MILTON STREET FRYERS, both attached below for you convenience......
NOW ESPECIALLY COMPARE THE ADDED APPLIANCES ON THE FRONT OF THE JOB CARD TO THE PERSONAL DETAILS AND ACCOMPANYING SIGNATURE ON THE PINK COPY OF THE CERT 299755.....THE FIGURE 6 IS TOTALLY IDENTICAL AND THE SIGNATURE IS IN KEEPING WITH THE WRITTING THAT ACCOMPANIES IT, TO MY EYE ANYWAY. What's the odds on that?
Now I am no hand writing expert (which is available to the Board) but they look mighty similar.......to ignore this ......is this reasonable?
All this known to the Board when Darnley's charge, that he faced for the explosion.....just disappeared.......
Don't you think they should have looked into it, perhaps asked the people who filled out the certs for me to sign????
-
Print them both off and compare.........let me know your opinion.
I still have heaps......it is embarrassing.
THIS COULD HAVE BEEN ANYONE OF YOU, AND STILL CAN BE ANYONE OF YOU...........
I have proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that I did nothing, how will you fare.....how confident are you in getting a fair go?
The Ombudsman's ruling on CPD......well CPD.......the investigator needs heaps of it......but its ok he got given his licence.......It is so very wrong......
Where is our minister, where is our Ombudsman?.....we are on our own (except for the Federation).....I know who gets my support every time.
Wal (and the committee) have been a stalwarts for the industry. Wal is one of the most fair minded people I have ever met.....when I have gone off half cocked he actually sticks up for the Board and others, but he also points out where they are going wrong, straight down the middle.
We need a fair minded neutral person to look into all of this.....or we can get the minister to change the law on collusion, corruption, nepotism and risking the NZ public's safety just to keep their mates safe.........that's reasonable isn't it?
-
Sunlight is the best disinfectant.....sent today.....
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Paul & Emma Gee [mailto:gasnsolarservices@gmail.com]
Sent: Sunday, 15 February 2015 2:53 p.m.
To: 'Paul & Emma Gee'; 'Registrar'; communications@pgdb.co.nz; complaints@pgdb.co.nz
Cc: 'Wal Gordon'; 'Allan Day'; 'Colleen Upton'; 'Lyndon Moffitt'; campbelllive@tv3.co.nz; 'Andrew Little'; jacinda.ardern@parliament.govt.nz; 'Janis Adair'; 'Jude Hutton'; 'Nick 4 Nelson'
Subject: RE: Letter responding to 26 Nov email
Mr Pederson,
Please can you get a handwriting expert to check/compare the witting on these attachments?
Especially the writing in the top 5 lines of the appliances field on the Job card, please compare to the personal details and accompanying signature on the cert 299755, as this gives us an identified and signed example of handwriting to compare with the person who in all probability installed the fryers at the site of an explosion.
I believe them to be the same hand and am sure you as the registrar would want to get to the truth on this matter, as no one to this day has been held accountable for nearly killing someone.
Thank you
Best Regards Paul Gee
-
Had a mate, who is a very experienced investigator look at the handwriting for me, his findings in the attachment, also see the email sent to Mr Pederson and all the MP's and tv stations mentioned in the previous email stream.... below in blue,
Mr Pederson and others,
I ask you to look at comments made by an experienced investigator, if our opinion is correct then the two samples are written by the same person, which puts who ever wrote it at the chipshop and in all probability fitted the fryers, this hand writing is signed off as John Darnley.
I did not install the fryers and my photos of the smoke prove I did no wrong at the Malvern Ave job, 100% innocent.
This is so very wrong in what you have done to my family; you are and have protected this man.
By way of an OIA request….why did the charge for the chipshop disappear for Mr Darnley?
FYI, this is posted on the plumber’s forum.
Best Regards Paul Gee
-
Now I was threatened with a handwriting expert........perhaps they will get him to give his professional opinion......and actually do their job.......
Have a look at the legionnaires job and do their job......I am 100 % innocent......where is our Ombudsman, our minister.........
NO ONE HAS BEEN HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR THIS EXPLOSION......IS THIS REASONABLE?
I have done no wrong, but lost so much is this reasonable?
To protect this person.....is this reasonable? Does this help the Board's credibility? Do/can you trust them?
-
So hypothetically speaking the police arrest the wrong person and at the trial they discover it wasn't the poor sap on the stand who is guilty......do they just stop looking because the guy they wanted to pin it on didn't happen?
Or do they do their job and get to the bottom of it all...........what is reasonable?
-
I think the writing is on the wall..............with all this blatant evidence is it fair to ignore it and shaft an innocent party.......
-
One rule for us and another for them.....remember the cert 345138....apparently the investigator saw a copy, or at least claimed to have seen it....hmmmm dodgy....
Mr Pederson,
Supplementary to my recent emails concerning the samples of matching handwriting. Writing identified by Darnley’s signature on an altered certificate for 8 point road which appears to match the hand writing for the “added” appliances on the job card for an explosion.
Please can I draw your attention to a possible untruth told on page 7 of 25 of the investigators report, please see attached. It appears that Mr Darnley doesn’t recognise his own hand writing. I have good reason to believe that it is Mr Darnley’s writing, how could he “not recognise” his own writing?
Also……
Please can you explain to me how the investigator could “reference back to the originals received by the Board” in relation to cert 345138 in this same report, on page 5 of 25? It states in this report that the investigator was appointed on the 24th July 2009. Which is after the date (well over a month) mentioned below, from an email in correspondence with myself and the Board, you personally have also confirmed this in your 33 page report on my concerns.
I have attached copies for your convenience, with the email below. It appears some untruths have been told.
From: Melanie Phillips [mailto:melanie@pgdb.co.nz]
Sent: Wednesday, 11 May 2011 4:13 p.m.
To: Paul & Emma Gee
Cc: Wal Gordon
Subject: RE: Paul Gee
Hi Paul
Please see attached Belinda’s file note of her request to John Darnley for a copy of certificate 345138. This occurred after she was contacted by lawyers acting for the owner on 17 April 2009 requesting copies of all gas certificates relating to 136 Milton Street.
Also attached is a copy of the certificate received which, as you will see, is of quite poor quality.
Please let me know if you need any more information.
Regards
Mel
From: Melanie Phillips[mailto:melanie@pgdb.co.nz]
Sent: Wednesday, 11 May 2011 3:22p.m.
To: Paul & Emma Gee; WalGordon
Subject: RE: Paul Gee
Hi Paul
I have just gone back through the file and can confirm that the Board never received a pink copy of certificate345138. The only copy the Board has is a photocopy of the certifier’s copy, which you produced as exhibit PG007 together with a copy of the gas suppliers copy.
I see notes from Belinda Greer on the file that the Board copy of certificate 345138 was received after the explosion in 2009, I think from the Department of Labour.
I’m sorry I can’t help you further.
Regards
Mel
Which copy of cert 345138 did Mr Hammond see, perhaps he still has it?
I have only told the truth with the publics best interest in mind, what have these other people done?
Best Regards Paul Gee
-
So who has been telling porky pies.....
Mr Darnley, Mr Hammond, Mr Pederson or the Board.....or all of them.
I tell the truth.....loose everything......is this reasonable?
-
Is it reasonable to expect fair play, with people telling the truth and acting in the public's best interest......
Or do you wait, hoping that they never come for you, waiting until a dodgy system singles you out for treatment while the same system is prepared to gamble with the publics well being?
People have got to see, it is only because we let these bullies go after us behind closed doors that they can do what they do, in full daylight, with full disclosure, with the public watching...... they got nothing......
I am no anarchist, I am all for regulation and can't abide cowboys and would never willingly gamble with another persons safety, especially to make a profit and I think it is best to contribute and give back......just wish we had a Board that acted the same.........
These people are only there because you follow them..........
-
Look at the shear weight of evidence that I have put on here............doesn't it bother you that those in power aren't outraged by this sort of carry on......which way does this lead us, the industry, the country?
-
Now....... apart from all the untruths, lying letters to my customers, the shocking child sexual abuse case notes, the nepotism, ignored conflicts of interest, ignored evidence, withheld notes & photos and re-amending of 50% of the charges, 42 charges blown out of the water, British standards not known by the only certifying gasfitter there (who was British), threatening phone call, enforcing a non mandatory part of the act, the owner saying it wasn't a problem, ignoring a legionnaires risk.....etc. etc. blah blah blah...... you seen the blatant evidence and paper trail I have put on here ......forget all that.....
Just answer me this......
How is it possible for these fumes enter the building see attached, just this one thing......
I was criticised for not taking an expert to the hearing to back my point.....I did...... his name was Paul Gee, with well over 20 years of experience and who had earned all his tickets.......TWICE....once in the UK and once in NZ.....an expert who knew how these fumes would act......because I had fitted so many.........but the Board have ignored one that is, in their own words (because proximity is a concern to them)...... worse because it is nearer......hypocrites.
But the board believed a conflicted investigator, who was also given his certifying status (along with Darnley) who wouldn't want to see the system he had heavily lobbied for (the self cert system) and had given Darnley his ticket........the same duo with one of them who got to see the missing original copy of cert 345138 (even though it had disappeared and never registered at the Board...lol) and Darnley who "hadn't registered" the cert 345138 and he can't recognise his own hand writing......
Now look at my drawing at the hearing, drawn on the white board at the hearing as I was explaining how the fumes would act.......fumes are hot and rise.......the higher the window the more chance for the wind to blow it back in......
I lost my home because of this, they terrorised my wife and ruined my reputation......ignoring real safety concerns......is this the way we want to go, are these the people we need telling us we are incompetent unless we do phoney CPD courses........
Is any of this sane....let alone reasonable........
-
So here it is......even when they get it wrong.....they are right.....
There is no way what I did was dangerous and the investigator had every reason to go me and was far from impartial.....
So just like when they are proven to be wrong by photos and the laws of physics and in the Feds case of the RRC and all the other stuff, which was made legal so they could take 2 million from us illegally, made legal.......
You have seen the photos and infra red images........but it is me who pays the price to bolster their egos.....just wrong, plain wrong.
-
They say I exercised my right of appeal.......
which they tried to block at the appeal......
then I was shut down at the appeal apparently with the content of my submission ignored and was told I could not adduce any new evidence......
while they could adduce that they were a professional Board and should be given more weight to their opinions...because they know better......
You seen the photos .........do you think they know better?
You've seen some of the ignored evidence.......do you think they should be given more weight to their opinions?
What a crock......
-
hi guys, Badger some good news perhaps. This statement about the David Bain Compensation case.
..("The New Zealand public rightly expects the Government to make a decision with the full set of facts and reliable advice in front of them.
"A fresh look will safeguard the integrity of the process and reassure the public that Cabinet will act on the best advice available).
Could we apply it to the Board and your case? cheers
-
I totally believe we could apply it to my case.........
We just need some straight shooting politicians who want to get to the truth and put the public before the little cabals of dodgy bastards who screw over innocent people while risking the publics safety.......I haven't met many yet but I live in hope......
-
How much integrity has this process that we are to be hit with, and hit with and hit with......
How much integrity has a system that will stoop to any low to get what they want, ignore what they want and risk who's safety they decide on, just to protect themselves and their little dodgy gang........you have seen what YOU can expect....
I agree that the public rightly expects the Government to protect the " integrity of the process ".....there isn't a scrap of integrity in my case or the process we were terrorised with........but the public got to know......its that easy......out in full daylight these people got nothing......
I just hope I don't have to do anything "unreasonable" to force it out in the open....
-
Its a feckin bad joke........
Mr Pederson,
Please see a photograph of how the fumes would behave in relation to an opening window, my additions in biro.
I have kept the perspective of the photo and made the wall flat. This mirrors the Malvern Ave Job dimensions, your letter reflects the total arrogance of the Board, basically the Board “knows” more than the laws of physics based in reality. I am sorry but I can not see this Emperors new clothes, it is farcical to hold on to this.
This decision has no credibility or integrity……especially when someone at the Board told a poorly elderly couple to “shut the window, when you use it”, on a califont fitted NEARER! They COULD smell fumes!!!!!!
Any way……
So how are you going with Mr Hammond’s referencing of the original copy of the “missing” cert 345138, after it was “lost”?
And not forgetting Mr Darnley not recognising his own handwriting for the additions to the job card for the site of an explosion? How’s the handwriting expert going? Let me know how you go, as I am sure you, as the Registrar of the PGDB charity, would want to know who nearly killed someone in an explosion.
Surely Mr Hammond……(who lobbied for the self cert system and gave Darnley his ticket “after a chat” and was in a few industry groups along with Darnley)……wouldn’t cover up for the “missing” cert…..that was missing the leak test results….showing weakness in his system that he lobbied for, by none other than the same man he empowered “after a chat”. Surely not……
By Means of an OIA request, please can you send me (other than Mr Hammond’s opinion) the basis for this decision by the Board, for the charge that the Board are so bloody-mindedly holding on to, in regards to the proximity of the califont.
Perhaps the Board totally based their decision on this one man’s “opinion”, an opinion based without any tests by Mr Hammond, and by his own admission he did not know whether the fumes were entering. I would have liked to press harder on this point……but his other mate Mr Parker shut down the Hearing.
Integrity and credibility……perhaps you should look them up in a dictionary.
Best Regards Paul Gee
-
What confidence do you have in these people?
Are you content that those that tell us what to do.... and tell us to abide by the rules.... and tell us that we must up-skill so we can do a job that we did an apprenticeship for.....
Then they go award a full certifying trade qualification to themselves and their mates with no apprenticeship........ ignore all their own rules and common decency ..........and get their CPD given to them just for attending meetings (I been to these meetings and got the points).
Democracy......really? Not seen much my self.........
Why are we as tradesmen treated like a lower class of person......
I bet if I made remarks about race or gender there would be a huge out cry.....but an average Joe Bloggs, just trying to feed his kids and look after his wife.....well f**** him he's fair game...........
-
Not to mention we fund the dodgy bastards......that's reasonable...... :o
Still not finished still got some more.......stay posted....
-
I agree with everything Mr Pederson says below from my local paper today.....funny enough.....that's why I tried to warn about dodgy certs covering dodgy work....
The board's chief executive, Max Pedersen, warns consumers: "Don't risk your family's health and safety or your insurance by hiring unauthorised people. While New Zealand law allows anyone to purchase gasfitting appliances, it is illegal to undertake any associated gasfitting work without authorisation.
"There are big fines associated with illegal work. This type of dangerous work carried out by unauthorised people can cause injury and even loss of life, as well as damage to property."
But when you take the time to read this huge steam of posts below from the beginning, looking at all the evidence....well you wonder if this statement is just hypocrisy, a slip of sanity or a parallel universe......I am not sure myself......
-
All you guests please share this link around, it needs airing for the safety of the public, we have had a cover up, at the expense and risk of the NZ public......don't believe me?
Read all that I have posted on this stream and the other topics, check out 3 open letters to the Minister.....
-
So its not just me who thinks that the handwriting on the job card is Darnley's.....
See an email sent this morning.....
Mr Pederson,
Please see below the opinion of the only professional graphologist in NZ, he believes that….. It is highly probable that the 2 scripts were of common authorship, please add this to my opinion and that of an ex investigator from the commerce commission. The Board had all this available to them before they framed me.
Supplementary to my previous emails, I believe that this adds weight to someone at the Board or working for the Board, or even the whole Board covering up the badly administered system of gas safety certification and the flippant handing out of certifying licences that resulted in someone nearly dying in an explosion.
The Board are protecting Darnley and have framed me for something I did not do, terrorising my family in the process and being prepared to risk the public’s safety.
In the attachments it shows the samples of handwriting, it shows Darnley “not recognising” his own hand writing on the job card for the explosion, I believe he fitted the fryers (on the job card it also shows another test for leaks, this could only be done with the fryers in place) this was done after I piped it out, and in all probability he lowered the pipe at he same time and fitted the third hose which was sold well after I left…..now he faced a charge for this……but this charge disappeared, I have under an OIA request inquired why this charge disappeared, I look forward to your rep.
Darnley also signed off the pizza oven of cert 345138, which is mentioned in the Dept of Labour complaint…..now this is confusing because-
The Board claim to never to have received cert 345138
There is a copy of cert 345138 on the boards website
Mr Hammond claims to have seen cert 345138 months after the Board told the chipshop owners lawyer that it was never registered, please see attached an excerpt from his initial report.
Cert 345138 lacks the gas leak test results at the site of an explosion, but you have said that a cert lacking test results is still valid.
So Mr Pederson, I would like to formally accuse someone or quite a few people who work at or for the Board of being corrupt and are protecting Darnley at the expense of not protecting the New Zealand public.
Of note, I believe if the legionnaires job makes someone ill, or even kills anyone which is very possible…. then the Board have been prepared to risk life to protect Darnley, this is so wrong.
The last final charge that still blemishes my name has been proven not to be a risk, but the Board still cling to it.
To all you copied in….. has this Board any credibility or integrity, can you rely on these people to oversee our industry, to judge those put before it fairly and with best intentions. Can you trust these people to protect the people of New Zealand…..I and many others believe you can not, but we do not have the power to do what you people can….you are voted in to do right by the New Zealand public, please do the right thing.
Email below…….
From: Mike Maran [mailto:mikemaran10@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, 19 February 2015 3:02 p.m.
To: Paul Gee
Subject: Handwriting Analysis on scripts
Dear Paul
I have identified several similarities between the 2 scripts these included.
Lower zone 'g' length and width of loop similar.
Return stroke on Lower zone of 'g' crosses at the baseline.
Minute hooks on the terminal stroke of 'N' in Nelson and 'F' in ' Fryer'.
Occasional pen lifts and partial letter connections eg 'Blue' 'Nelson'.
Constructional features of No 6 similar.
Baseline alignment ascends, then descends, eg 'John' Nelson' 'Blue' 'seal'.
Connecting strokes similar garland type. eg l and u in 'blue'. and a and w in 'Atawhai'
Zero on '90' elongated similar to zero in '04'.
Middle zone proportions and measurements in relativity to the Lower Zones.
Pen pressure variable. Could be due to the type of pen used. Difficult to confirm on photocopys.
Full stops heavy pressure ,both scripts showed a mix of dashed and curved.
Slant on first stroke of '4' in 'GT45' and '26/4/04' similar at 70o reclined.
Opinion
It is highly probable that the 2 scripts were of common authorship.The author is a versatile writer who is capable of using or adjusting his script to suit his circumstances. Both scripts were written with a different writing instrument.The writing surface and the the authors emotional and personal or medical circumstances could have also affected the slight variation on the pictorial style of the script.
The above analysis is based on 2 short scripts on electronically submitted photocopys. More exemplars would be required to form a more definitive opinion.
Interpretation.
The following terminology is based on the American Scientific Working Group for Forensic Document Examiners (www.swgdoc.org) for expressing conclusions for Document Examiners and describes the strength of the evidence and is standard terminology used worldwide.
Conclusive.
Highly Probable
Probable
Little Indication.
Inconclusive.
Paul. if you need more assistance or other another inquiry,please contact me anytime. Hoping this is of assistance.
Kind Regards
Mike Maran.
-
The thing is this isn't a check on the population of NZ or even Nelson, not even upper Takaka....its a population of people who had access to that job card.....about three people......
Was it Darnley who fitted the fryers?
Was it Darnley who fitted the third hose?
Was it Darnley who lowered the pipe?
Was it Darnley who fitted the pizza oven on missing cert 345138?
Was it Darnley who faced a charge for this explosion but it disappeared?
Dodgy dirty little people.....scum.
-
So what happens if you tell fibs in an investigation? Apparently Darnley can't recognise his own hand writing.... ???
How do you make a charge for an explosion disappear with no hearing? He faced a charge for the exploding chip shop.... ???
What is the deal with the elusive certificate 345138.... ??? It comes and it goes.
I believe anyone who backs these actions are as corrupt as the people who carried them out.
No one has been held accountable for nearly killing someone, lots of evidence points to a certain person, but the Board do nothing, other than try to frame me and terrorise my family.....that's reasonable aye!
What is the reason for the Board again, what did it list for its charity status.....what a joke.
This all happened in Nick Smiths back yard......to the very people who voted him in......shouldn't this be addressed? By the minister responsible for this bunch of goons....I think that would be pretty reasonable....
-
I have just read the news letter from the board, its all about trust and confidence and stopping cowboys......
Any one of you that's read this steam of evidence on this post.......well its confusing to say the least.....
-
So you have seen all this blatant evidence, even down to handwriting experts....all this points to Darnley or someone at Allgas, which Darnley was manager at the time.....
But the Board can't get past me and my case, its not about fixing things or justice its all about my case, its all about pointing the finger at me.....which as you have seen that I did no wrong whatsoever......100% innocent of anything.....
Now reread the Board's latest newsletter........it is like they are living in another parallel universe.
So I can prove that there was a third hose (the very same hose that caused the explosion) supplied to the chipshop well after I left, that there was a pizza oven installed half way along "not registered" by cert (which is embarrassingly bullshit, even the investigator claims to have seen the cert 345138), the whole of the gas bottle supply set up changed from the original at the site of an explosion....and even the only graphologist in NZ thinks that Darnley very probably filled out the job card, with Darnley on record "not recognising" his own handwriting........funny that.....
But the Board can't "revisit" my case.........here is an idea......open another one a proper impartial "case" and see justice served and do your job.
The other attachment is a copy for the cert where there is a huge legionnaires risk, with the same water in the c/h rads as the hot water supply.......but they do nothing......see the schematic attached......this is the time of year that we have the thermostatic rad valves opening (after one of the hottest summers on record) allowing the stagnant water to exit out of the hot water outlets.... including the shower, the spreading of legionnaires is enabled by atomising the water, or spraying....just like the shower. It effects the old and legionnaires bacteria grow best in temps between 25- 50 degrees.....this owner is elderly and the summer was a hot one, you'll notice that the cert was signed off in 2004......that's some mighty old stagnant water.....Been warning about this for over a decade......now go read the Boards latest newsletter......its nuts.
I told the owner, the Board, the TA has been notified..... even the coroner.......nothing.....it is wrong.
What happens if this guy sells this house and someone puts their kids in the shower?....the elderly and the young being at most risk from this bacteria........but the Board play on legal loop holes, not to look at this.......its bullshit.
-
Sent this morning.........
Hi Nick,
Please see below a link to the Plumbers Forum, I believe that there is a risk of legionnaires in our area. I have been warning about this for quite some time, but the Board appear willing to go to any lengths to protect Darnley.
http://www.plumbers.co.nz/forum/fellow-practitioners-update/41/fellow-practitioner-issue-236-dated-12-december-2014/1810/msg9430#msg9430
On this same forum stream there are also the replies received from the Board AFTER I had supplied a handwriting expert, saying they aren’t willing to appoint a handwriting expert….. which is confusing because they don’t need to…. they have (yet again) the evidence right in front of them, supplied by my self.
Some one nearly died in Nelson; with most if not all the evidence pointing to someone at Allgas, in all probability Darnley, he faced a charge, but it disappeared before his hearing……….how does that happen?
Also there is a very real risk from a life threatening bacteria. The schematic attached is how I am lead to believe the system was installed and how I saw it started to be installed.
When I confronted Darnley about the danger of this installation, requesting a “specification” from the manufactures, he replied that “you don’t need a specification, just use poker face”, I said “poker face?”…….he replied “yes….. just pretend you know what your doing!!!!!”.
On another occasion he told another contractor to install a prohibited heater in a bedroom, when the contractor complained he thought it was cleaver to cross out “bedroom” and write “study”.
As he was gifted his full certifying licence and accepted into the NZIGE after “just a chat” with Tony Hammond who also got gifted his full certifying licence, you can see why he has this attitude and why this has happened, but it doesn’t make it right. I think it is, or should be, criminal.
Please can you get this looked at before the thermostatic valves open this winter, this will potentially allow 11 year old water to join the hot water ring main and exit through the shower, atomising the stagnant water, which will allow the elderly couple to inhale the bacteria. I can not emphasise how wrong and life threatening this is. Ask any decent central heating installer. I have also attached a reply from the Board concerning this risk, the “with emails” attachment, I had expressed concern verbally before this over the phone to them.
Regards Paul Gee
-
Sorry I should clarify that was sent to Nick Smith the MP for Nelson and the minister that appoints the Board.
-
hi, guys/Badger, as always it will probably be filed in the waste bin,cheers
-
Probably mate, isn't that sad....what if someone dies from this c/h system.....can you imagine the "dive for cover"....a hearse at the bottom of a cliff.....
You got to ask what is so important about the people they are protecting....worth gambling life for.....it is crazy mate.....
-
hi guys/Badger, never give up:- two words, `Teina Pora`... and as Joe Cocker said: Noubliez Jamais, cheers
-
Its not in my DNA to give up mate....
Here's the reply apparently I can expect an answer in 28 days.....
Thank you for emailing Nick Smith and his Nelson Electorate Office. This is an automated response to confirm it has been received.
Any emails related to Dr Smith's ministerial portfolios will be forwarded to his Wellington office. Any follow up on these should be directed to n.smith@ministers.govt.nz
Correspondence from Nelson constituents will generally be responded to within 28 days. Please appreciate that Dr Smith receives a huge number of emails daily and you may not receive a response beyond this if you are simply making a comment or copying him in on an issue.
Kind regards
Tracy Neal and Petrina Francis
Electorate Agents
Hope it is before those thermostatic valves open.....
-
Perhaps anyone who is aghast with the way the Board are willing to risk the health and safety of the NZ public should drop Nick an email.....his direct email is below, you can't blame him for not acting if no one tells him how messed up it all is......
-
Below is a letter one of six they sent to all the addresses that I faced charges, it mentions work in Northland, a place I have never been to.......even in the Boards own words it prejudiced all the sites where I faced charges.
Now look at the reason for this investigation, a person signed 570 certs and sold them, he claimed to have checked them (in the news).....the Boards own investigator said 16 were very dangerous and a huge % were non compliant......
Apparently this is still before the Board......it happened the same time as my investigation for an explosion in 2009........
Now that is unreasonable.........
-
You may wonder how you can get 44 charges out of seven sites......well they had charges to back charges, to back charges, of note these charges were even amended just weeks out from my kangaroo court......just in case I could answer any of them.
So Darnley faced a charge but it disappeared.....
And this case is still before the Board .......for well over 4 freaking years? really......
Now go re read their latest hypocrisy in the recent Board Newsletter........total bullshit.
I have "attempted" to do more to protect the NZ public......but I have been shut down ironically by the Board........funny that ???
-
Perhaps someone could ask for a list of people who have been granted a full certifying licence on the same basis as Darnley and Hammond.....it would be quite enlightening I believe......
So guys..... how do you feel about a bunch of hypocritical bureaucrats under mining our trade..... calling us incompetent (unless we do CPD and listen to a salesman pushing their product)..... financing their system and supplying them funds to pay for a gaggle of lawyers to screw us over and then they pay no tax back into society.........for them to just go handing out full certifying licences to their mates. FFS.
Are you going to wait until they come knocking..... looking to screw you over, because if it suits them, they will......the Plumber's Federation is your best bet, we aren't always going to have stand up guys like Wal......when are you going to stand up and be counted.....all it would take would be substantial numbers to email Nick Smith......look at all the work the Feds have put in, just one email guys come on.....just ask for a inquiry if what I say is for real.
Think about it next time you have to take a day off work to do illegal CPD.......
News just in apparently they have just approved an "egg sucking" course for elderly mothers with grandchildren.... lol....tossers.
-
This is the case "still before the Board".......are you happy with that?
Police and safety authorities are investigating an alleged scam where illegal gas connections that could be lethal have been fitted in homes and businesses.
More than 570 blank safety certificates have been signed by a registered gasfitter over the past three years, then sold on to unqualified tradesmen who carried out work in Auckland and Northland.
The alleged scam was uncovered when a homeowner last year noticed her gas certificate looked bogus and laid a complaint with the Plumbers, Gasfitters and Drainlayers Board, which then launched an inquiry and discovered the scale of the alleged offending.
The board audited more than 370 commercial premises and private homes and found more than 90% failed to meet compliance tests, with 16 found to be dangerous or unsafe.
Energy Safety, part of the Ministry of Economic Development, and the Department of Labour are also investigating the potentially explosive gas fittings. A complaint has also been laid with police.
Board spokesman John Debernardo says the work has the potential to create danger or pose a health and safety risk.
The internal investigation will be completed in a few weeks and a disciplinary hearing is likely for the gasfitter at the centre of the audit.
Criminal charges are also possible for the man signing the blank certificates and those who paid money for them.
The board is refusing to say who is at the centre of this, but ONE News understands it is a man by the name of Richard Oldfield.
When approached by ONE News, he at first denied signing all of the permits himself, claiming someone has been forging his signature.
Advertisement
Discussing the permits, Oldfield says they come in books of 10.
"I sign the books. That's it, finished, as far as I'm concerned," he says. "But I always inspect the jobs."
-
Dealing with unreasonable people.....yes I have dealt with a lot of them......
The board audited more than 370 commercial premises and private homes and found more than 90% failed to meet compliance tests, with 16 found to be dangerous or unsafe.
"I sign the books. That's it, finished, as far as I'm concerned," he says. "But I always inspect the jobs."
So this is the case that led to the letters that ruined my business…….and it is still before the Board……..is this reasonable……is it f****……..
-
Think of this next time your doing CPD about guttering just to get your licence......for a trade you actually sat an apprenticeship for.......like I said total tossers......
-
How is this for reasonable, fair and protecting the NZ public.......remember the latest info brief........
Its amazing isn't it......one guy warns about dodgy certs covering dodgy work for six years before an explosion nearly kills someone......this guy looses everything.......
Another guy who was complained about by the guy above, faces a charge for the said explosion, but the charge disappears......as he was already retired, he paid $10 000 for nearly killing someone....retires to his beach house......
And another guy who according to the Board was audited for more than 370 commercial premises and private homes and found more than 90% failed to meet compliance tests, with 16 found to be dangerous or unsafe. And this case is still before the Board.......really?? So nothing happened to him??
Nick Smith most of this happened in your back yard......and your the minister for the Plumber's goon squad......please can we get some action?? Just look into it, call me on my accusations, put my reams of evidence and correspondence to the test......
Guys are you prepared to be governed by these people.....you are running a gambit by hoping that you don't become a target.......those of you that think I "deserve" this.....ask those who you know are in the know......now match their reasoning for terrorising my family and apply it to your potential future behaviour......what did I do to deserve this? Ask them.....listen to their lies, then ask me if what they say is true.....I bet what they tell you is bullshit......
I don't like to live on my knees, I will always stand up or die trying to stand up.......
I have done nothing wrong, but my persecutors have done a lot wrong, risking the public's health and safety in the process, allowing their mates to get away with it all, while calling us incompetent.......I ask you all......IS THIS REASONABLE??????????
-
So 90% of 370 is 333.....that's 333 commercial premises and private homes that failed to meet compliance tests, with 16 found to be dangerous or unsafe.
"I sign the books. That's it, finished, as far as I'm concerned," he says. "But I always inspect the jobs."
I have very good reason to believe that this guy's case is still before the Board.
Just another Darnley waiting to happen........So guys, how does the CPD taste now?
-
Sent this morning I will let you know the reply, 20 working days from now apparently.....
Mr Pederson,
I am laying a formal complaint against Mr Darnley’s involvement re- the explosion at the Milton Street Chipshop. I believe he might be responsible for this explosion and I am complaining about this so you can appoint an investigator to find out; please appoint an investigator that Darnley isn’t friends with or is a member of any groups that Darnley was/is a member of.
I would complain that Darnley didn’t register the pink master copy of cert 345138, while handing out the carbon copies to the customer and gas supplier.
I would also complain that all available copies lack a recording of a gas leak test, at a site that later exploded…..because of a gas leak, a gas leak on a hose supplied by Darnley’s company Allgas, weeks after I left Allgas. Please see attached receipt for this hose. Please note I left the year before in 2003.
I have reason to believe that it was Darnley who installed the fryers; please see the handwriting samples supplied to you just recently also attached.
I would also complain that after altering my initial install and changing the gas cylinder supply set up and changing the hose ( the hose mentioned above, the one that caused the explosion) that a further certificate wasn’t issued.
I hope you do not take your previous stand that my having faced charges for this debacle protects Darnley in someway from my complaint, you have said that you can’t revisit my case; please open a new case, one that is fair and transparent.
I would also take this chance, to yet, again lay a complaint about the legionnaire’s risk, installed by Mr Darnley. Please see attachment, this dwelling has central heating with radiators, an impossibility with out contaminating the hot water supply when heated with the califont on the cert. You have this blatant evidence, please act on it. It is very dangerous plumbing and this is your jurisdiction, no one else’s. Please note it is that time of year where the thermostatic heads on the radiators are opening and the 11 year old water is being atomised by the elderly mans shower (any plumber worth his salt would know this to be a ticking time bomb, a matter of when not if there will be an issue, it has the potential to kill.)
And I would also complain about the manipulation of the gas certificates at Powick Street, by my reckoning it is missing at least 2 certificates for work carried out, and as far as I know it still has the lpg cylinders on the deck, this was of such concern that the Board laid charges against myself. As I have proved that it was impossible for me to have done this, I would complain about the person who did. According to your correspondence you have made no other contact to the owner of Powick Street, other than the letter that said I was capable of acting illegally in Northland which was sent out before my hearing, my hearing showed this manipulation and the Board have done nothing. Just for the record I have never been to Northland.
Again, I hope you do not take the stand that my having faced charges for this protects the person responsible in someway and you can’t revisit my case, I am not asking you to revisit my case, please open a new case, one that is fair and transparent.
Also I would complain that even though someone nearly died because of bad, very bad gasfitting and shoddy practices, that no one has been held responsible for nearly killing Ron Clark.
I am appalled that even though Darnley didn’t sit an apprenticeship the Board saw fit to gift him (and others) his/their full craftsman/certifying status, I would complain about this flippant issuing of a licence that resulted in empowering a person not fit to practice, that at least once has ended in an explosion.
Also Kern Uren stated at my hearing that Mr Darnley had an extensive file, please by way of an OIA request can I get a copy of this extensive file and the basis for gifting Darnley his licence, please blank out all names as I do not want to invade anyone’s privacy. I am willing to cover the photocopying cost.
And my last complaint is that the Board have covered up a badly administered gas safety certificate and licence system that resulted in a near fatal explosion, I complain about this dereliction of duty.
I believe all the above are reasonable grounds for laying these complaints.
Regards Paul Gee
-
So I found this on the net, it is dated Sept 2009, we had the Milton street chipshop explosion in April 2009........what do you think would have made sense, what do you think might have been the right direction to take when this came up......
You had an explosion that heavily involved a person (Darnley) granted his licence after a chat, granted by Hammond who was appointed the investigator in July 2009......just before this came out below....
Instead of thinking we might be getting things wrong and risking NZer's lives.......they framed me for it......please read this below.....because what they did AFTER this blew me away, I lost my business because of letters sent out about this dire situation mentioned below, they even tried to lump me in with this below.....see letter attached......
Hundreds of homes and businesses have been fitted with potentially illegal and dangerous gas connections which authorities say could put people at risk of fire or poisoning.
Police and Government authorities are investigating the alleged scam in which more than 570 blank safety certificates were signed by a registered gasfitter, then sold to up to eight unqualified tradesmen who carried out work in Auckland and Northland.
The alleged fraud went on for nearly three years until a homeowner noticed her gas certificate looked bogus and laid a complaint with the Plumbers, Gasfitters and Drainlayers Board in July.
The Government licensing body launched an inquiry and discovered the scale of the alleged offending.
An urgent audit of more than 370 commercial premises and private homes found more than 90 per cent failed to meet compliance tests, with 16 found to be dangerous or unsafe.
More than 200 certificates are still missing and the board has issued an alert to the public to help trace the unlicensed work.
Energy Safety, part of the Ministry of Economic Development, and the Department of Labour are also investigating the potentially explosive gas fittings. A complaint has also been laid with police.
John Debernardo, the gasfitter board spokesman, said the 570 certificates were a small fraction of the 100,000 issued during the three-year period.
While most were technical breaches and the number of potentially lethal gas leaks found were small, he urged anyone with information to come forward.
"Gas is a fuel that has the potential to create danger or pose a health and safety risk. This is a serious matter," said Mr Debernardo.
The internal investigation would be completed in a few weeks and a disciplinary hearing was likely for the gasfitter at the centre of the audit.
Criminal charges were also possible for the man signing the blank certificates and those who paid money for them.
"As a gas industry spokesman, I'm ashamed of what these guys have done," said Mr Debernardo.
To compound matters, gas connections done by an unlicensed worker are not covered by insurance.
Mr Debernardo said the audit had cost taxpayers $250,000 so far, a figure likely to rise to $500,000.
He would also report back to the board with a review of the gas-fitting certificate system to see if changes needed to be made.
Mark Wogan, of Energy Safety, said the audit found six homes and 10 businesses in Auckland were dangerous or unsafe. The immediate focus was on public safety.
* To report one of the missing gas certificates or for further information, call the Plumbers, Gasfitters and Drainlayers Board 0800 743 262 0800 743 262.
LET US KNOW
Do you know who the rogue gasfitter is?
jared.savage@nzherald.co.nz
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10598315
nitpicker1:
Fitter claims smear campaign
20/09/2009 4:32:01
The Auckland gas fitter who is at the centre of an alleged safety certificate scam thinks the whole thing is a storm in a teacup.
Police and safety authorities are investigating after revelations nearly 600 blank safety certificates, signed by a registered gas fitter, were on-sold to unqualified tradesmen.
They went ahead with work in Auckland and Northland regions, using the certificates to legitimise what they had done.
The Plumbers, Gasfitters and Drainlayers Board says an audit has found most jobs failed compliance tests, and some were unsafe because of leaks.
Richard Oldfield, who is accused of signing off the certificates, thinks it is a smear campaign to tarnish his image.
He is expecting to be hauled before the Board, and if they do not like what he has done, he says they can cancel his licence or whatever they like.
Mr Oldfield insists his actions have always been above board.
The Board audited more than 370 commercial premises and private homes, and found more than 90 percent failed compliance tests.
It is appealing to people who have had gas work done in the last 31 months to check their certificates against numbers listed on the Board's website.
One hundred and ninety-eight certificates are still unaccounted for.
-
Now remember this happened in Sept 2009........this would be approx. 6 months before relicensing....there was a lot of publicity and evidence available to the Board.......
So how did this guy get his full certifying licence in 2010........from the Boards own website.....
Oldfield, Richard Henry 02497
Email: Contact the Board Address: Contact the Board Preferred Contact Number:
Contact the Board
Current Licence(s)
Licence Type Licensing Period
No current licences held
Registration History
Registration Type Status Registration Date
Certifying Drainlayer Active 23 Mar 2010
Certifying Plumber Active 06 Apr 1990
Certifying Gasfitter Active 01 Jan 1978
Licensed Drainlayer Superseded 01 Jan 1978
Licensed Plumber Superseded 01 Jan 1978
Licensed Gasfitter Superseded 01 Jan 1978
Licensing History
Licence Type Status History
Certifying Drainlayer Expired 2010
Certifying Gasfitter Expired 2010, 2009, 2008, 2007, 2006, 2005, 2004, 2003
Certifying Plumber Expired 2010, 2009, 2008, 2007, 2006, 2005, 2004, 2003
Licensed Drainlayer Expired 2009, 2008, 2007, 2006, 2005, 2004, 2003
Now read that again about how bad this was how much risk to others there were.......and he just gets given his licence the year after and someone who is involved with this is still before the Board, so he can get a fair trial.......
Where was my fair trial? Where is the fairness for the people involved with this, the people who had their families put at risk?
-
You would think that that would be an end to it, that the Board may have learnt that flippant handing out of licences wasn't a good idea......
Well, please explain how this guy's son gets an upgrade from a "provisional" gasfitting licence, to his full "certifying" licence, the very next year.....
Email: brett.oldfield@combustioncontrol.co.nz Address: PO Box 13454
Onehunga
Auckland, 1643 Preferred Contact Number:
Current Licence(s)
Licence Type Licensing Period
Certifying Gasfitter(^) Licensed from 01 Apr 2014 to 31 Mar 2015
Certifying Gasfitter(^) Licensed from 01 Apr 2015 to 31 Mar 2016
Registration History
Registration Type Status Registration Date
Certifying Gasfitter Active 06 Dec 2011
Licensing History
Licence Type Status History
Certifying Gasfitter Active 2015, 2014, 2013, 2012, 2011
Provisional Gasfitter Licence Expired 2011
-
John Debernardo, the gasfitter board spokesman, said the 570 certificates were a small fraction of the 100,000 issued during the three-year period.
Now..... over 3 years......$25 per cert paid to the Board X 100000 = 2,500,000........that 2.5 million Dollars......that's a large amount of money, that's a large amount of work......would need a large business to turn that over....it would need a continuation of licence cover to oversee that kind of amount of work.
I wonder what someone would pay for a licence like that, to be granted a licence like that?
-
Now reread Max Pederson's letter attached, this matter is still before the Board after putting so many people at risk, and THIS guy deserves a fair trial, really??
But I didn't deserve a fair trial?........because I tried to warn it was going to happen? That's reasonable aye!!!!!
You should resign Max......this is pitiful......the Board are failing the NZ public.
-
So here is the original request......this all came to light in Sept 2009.....but one guy is still before the Board in May 2014.....that's four and a half years......is this reasonable?
And definitely after Sept 2009 a licence was issued to this same guy for the 2010 year.....
Remember this.....
So 90% of 370 is 333.....that's 333 commercial premises and private homes that failed to meet compliance tests, with 16 found to be dangerous or unsafe.
"I sign the books. That's it, finished, as far as I'm concerned," he says. "But I always inspect the jobs."
And this guy gets his licence after admitting this and risking 333 sites and god knows how many people and their kids.........16, that's bloody 16, were found to be dangerous and unsafe.........but here you go Mr Oldfield.......you go fit some more appliances for 2010......
I wonder who is this guy is the one who is still before the Board?.........for 4 and a half years.......
The thing is guys when the powers that be aren't fair or reasonable and favour some people over others.......what confidence can you have in them?
If they hand out licences to people willy nilly......what does that do to the integrity of the trade? What about the confidence of the public in our skills?
What happens if you get on the wrong side of one of these bullies.......bullies who are prepared to risk our fellow kiwis health and safety.....remember I was an ex Nelson president of Master Plumbers, I was told at a leadership course that I was "in"......
They need to go and they need to go soon......I think we should start petitioning for resignations.....if the minister receives these petitions in numbers then he has to do something surely.........
Max Pederson you should resign, sooner rather than later.
-
So guys.....if this is the same person before the Board after all this time, after risking all these people at 333 site, with at least 16 dangerous, and I have reason to believe it is the same person......is this fair or reasonable or even legal......4 and a half years they must be building a massive case against him, must have cost us a lot of money (as we finance this charade)......but I suppose he did chip in $2.5 million in gas certificate revenue.
What a joke, how much evidence does the government want, I have copied in lots of ministers to all this......nothing so far and the Ombudsman isn't interested.......fairness for all, is their motto........really?
And the person who over saw a lot of this up until today......the Chief Exec.......is the signatory on the letters attached, they don't seem to care.
Please pop your resignation in the post Mr Pederson, and please can all the other people from the Board who have stood by and watched this carry on follow suit.
-
I notice that the 100 000 certs is for the 3 years total for the industry, I bet the Board miss that cash cow......but it means that 90% of his work was substandard.....but he gets a licence, the following year....how does that work?
-
So how would it look if there were five people highlighted by this appalling case and the Board prosecute the four people who bought the dodgy certs......but waited until nearly five years to go after the guy who was selling the dodgy......that sounds reasonable aye!
Darnley would sign off all and sundry too..... untrained, apprentices.....perhaps these guys had the same CPD courses.
Ironic that I lost my business by being thrown in with these people when the Board sent out letters to all the sites of "concern", before my hearing saying I was involved with this.......but potentially the guy responsible for it.....well he is still before the Board. What for 5 years.....what bullshit.
-
Sent this morning......doesn't it worry anyone that we have this blatant bullshit, with very real risk to the average kiwi.... and the minister has done nothing to date.....
Where's the media?
From: Paul & Emma [mailto:gspservices@xtra.co.nz]
Sent: Sunday, 8 March 2015 11:26 a.m.
To: 'Paul & Emma'; 'Nick 4 Nelson'
Cc: wal.gordon@xtra.co.nz; 'Allan Day'; 'Colleen Upton'; 'Lyndon Moffitt'; campbelllive@tv3.co.nz; 'Andrew Little'; jacinda.ardern@parliament.govt.nz; 'Jude Hutton'; 'Janis Adair'; 'Judith Burney'
Subject: Compensation
Hi Nick,
Please see attached correspondence between myself and the Board.
Attached are two letters from the Board that confirm that someone is still before the Board (nearly 5 years later) for being involved in putting at risk 370 commercial premises and private homes, 90 per cent failed to meet compliance tests, with 16 found to be dangerous or unsafe.
If this is the person responsible for selling these certs (and I have reason to believe it is, perhaps you can ask), then it is reprehensible. It would be reprehensible because they would have prosecuted the purchasers not the guy selling them.
Also attached is the licence history of this person, after this came about and as he is to reported to have said that…I sign the books. That's it, finished, as far as I'm concerned," he says. "But I always inspect the jobs.", then he should be held responsible for this.
I find this confusing because even though he did all this, he was given his full ticket some six months later. Then after this the Board upgraded his son’s provisional licence to a full certifying licence. All this was done in the knowledge of what happened in Milton Street and the Board’s resulting attempted cover-up for flippantly handing out licences. I believe this is so very wrong.
Also see attached one of the letters, one of six that was sent to ALL sites that the Board laid charges (except the explosion), done before my hearing. Also see attached an apology for these letters. This letter to the only High School in Motueka, the main centre of my business, is what I believe killed my livelihood, my financial records reflect this.
Apparently the person still before the Board deserves a fair trial, why didn’t I receive a fair trial?
Nick I was framed for something I didn’t do, please can you tell me the process I have to start to be compensated for this.
This Board have acted egregiously and denied me my basic human rights, taking from me my business, reputation and time away from my family…..all done with risk to the NZ public’s safety. Not to mention the legionnaire risk they have ignored for years and the fact no one was held responsible for the explosion……It needs a public inquiry.
Regards Paul Gee
-
I told you all I had enough to go on for weeks and this is just the tip of what I have.....I am starting to loose my temper, big time.
-
Still before the Board.......what utter bullshit..........brushed under the carpet more like.........hoping that we'd all forget........nearly five years, they insult our sense of reason and call US unreasonable..........
Thing is when you brush things under the carpet, it makes for lumpy carpets..........which might trip you up in the future.....
16 homes and business's DANGEROUS and UNSAFE.......that is peoples lives, where they work and their homes......but they granted him a licence 6 months later, that taught him aye ::).......it beggars belief.
-
Anyone reading this if you want a comparison..... do me a favour.... print it all off, this stream of ample evidence, including all the attachments and just try to comprehend how much evidence there is, how much the public have been put at risk, how bent the system is.......
Then print off what anyone, including the minister, media and all the experts at the Board have done to rectify it........actually do this first......it will be a very small pile, if it is even a sheet of paper......
Now that $500 for licences seem a bargain aye.....
Or sat in a "classroom" being "taught" for your CPD for days, just so you can earn a crust.....
But what ever you do don't stand up for your self or be "unreasonable".........
-
I ask you to think on this, the Board have....
Ignored an elderly couple who complained about fumes entering their home, told them to shut the window when they use their califont.
Have ignored for years a legionnaires risk, where the hot water system shares its water with the c/h system
Spent over $200,000 in persecuting me, focusing so much on me that they can't and won't look at who all the evidence points to, and no one has been held responsible for an explosion that nearly killed someone
Have ignored the gas certificate system rules (in their own words they have done nothing to a person who didn't register a cert at an explosion) and have run the system so badly it had to carry a disclaimer, just before it was taken off them
Had a guy involved with putting a massive amount of people at risk, then gives him a licence the year after and probably not looked at it since some 5 years later
Lied to the point of having to write an apology (an apology that is worth nothing more than the paper it is written on)
Ignored massive conflicts of interest
Taken illegally two million dollars from the industry, taken illegally in my world means stolen
Imposed an illegal CPD system on it, ignoring conflicts of interest (one of the biggest training providers holds 50% of the trade representation on the Board, against the recommendations of the NZ law society)
Handed out certifying licences to total idiots while making good honest tradesman resit their qualifications and made certifying exams un-passable
Went on a all expenses paid trip to Aussie with partners, all done with us paying the tab.
I could go on and on......they got to go....it is a joke.
-
Just filled out my survey for.....
Good morning Paul
Thank you for your email on Friday 27 February 2015.
The Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment is reviewing the operation of the Plumbers, Gasfitters and Drainlayers Act.
As part of the review process, the Ministry is conducting a survey of plumbers, gasfitters drainlayers to find out whether the Act is supporting them in their day-to-day work and to find out how it could be improved. If you have not received a link to the survey , please complete this survey https://www.research.net/s/pgd-act-review-survey
Your comments and feedback are important to us and will be used to inform the government’s review of the operation of the Act. If you have any questions regarding the survey please call 0800 242 243 or email info@dbh.govt.nz
The survey closes midnight Tuesday 31 March 2015.
I hope they think I am serious.....what a joke......get on there guys if we say nothing we can expect nothing
-
The link is below guys let them know what's going on....
Mine was a bit a read I can tell you, all true, and totally unbelievable
-
The Board have covered up the handing out of a gas fitting licence to an unqualified person who worked in Nelson for over a decade, this flippant issuing of a licence ended in Ron Clark of the Milton Street chipshop nearly dying in this explosion, all the evidence points to this person.
Please take the time to read through this evidence that is on this stream, to those that have....I am saying this because I just discovered Twitter, and am sharing this have a look under "paul gee 14" on twitter.
-
Remember Allgas, run by the Darnley's.......well read the evidence below, there is heaps.....
The thing is Nelson, it can take a good while for all the ducks to line up for an incident, Ron's chipshop took nearly 7 years.....
If there is anyone in Nelson who has any genuine concerns with work done by Darnley, I will come and check it, get a group together and I will come over from Takaka and donate time to get this fixed. It seems the government and the Board aren't concerned, well I am.
-
Sent to Nick Smith's PA today........
Please could you give me some indication of when I might receive a reply from Nick?
I am weighing up options about protesting and would like to give Nick the opportunity of reply before I go in that direction.
I hope you have taken my advice and checked if anyone you know in the Nelson area has had any work done by John Darnley, he was nothing short of a menace and had the worst attitude to safety I have ever met. His licence number is 16844, I believe all his certs should be checked.
I have attached the certificate for Nick, perhaps he could see if there is just one water heater heating the central heating and hot water, this is impossible without contamination.
I would be happy to accompany Nick to this address or met with him any time that is convenient to us both.
The people in Nelson voted this minister in......is it reasonable for him to look into it, in the constituency that he looks after, under the portfolio that he looks after......
-
I sent this in reply to this email below.....look a the date.....
From: Kate Dixon [mailto:Kate.Dixon@parliament.govt.nz]
Sent: Thursday, 5 February 2015 11:46 a.m.
To: 'gasnsolarservices@gmail.com'
Subject: Response from the Office of the Minister for Building and Housing
Dear Mr Gee
On behalf of Hon Dr Nick Smith, Minister for Building and Housing, thank you for your email of 3 February 2015 regarding your dispute with the Plumbers, Gasfitters and Drainlayers Board.
Your comments have been noted and you may expect a reply in due course.
Kind regards,
Kate Dixon
Ministerial Secretary
Office of Hon Dr Nick Smith
Minister for the Environment | Minister for Building and Housing
Ph: 817-6805 | Fax: 817-6505
Perhaps some of you others can write to him too.....
-
sent this to nick smith this morning
-
I wonder if the Minister {BLANK SPACE} knows the investigation (set up) of Paul Gee cost over $250,000. It is the industries right to know the truth and if there was wrong doing the individuals should be held accountable. If a minister of the crown doesn't seek the truth then what is their worth?
Ministers are accountable to the people in one way or another so how about we all take a Saturday trip to the Nelson Market and protest in the Ministers back yard.
-
Thank you very very much Ford1, you don't know what it means to me and my missis, thank you.
Below is the response from the Minister, I don't see what would have taken over a month just to fob me off like this.
I am more than happy to protest outside his caravan in the Nelson Market, on his home patch in front of the people who he should be protecting form the shoddy work installed and certified by Darnley, empowered by a licence handed out like a membership to a club, DONE TO THE VERY SAME PEOPLE WHO VOTED HIM IN.......SHOCKING.
Please read a recent press release by the Board.....
An Auckland man has been convicted and fined $1050 after he falsely advertised himself as a trained plumber.
Jarron "Jazz" Lopez was convicted in the Auckland District Court on Tuesday for doing plumbing work without authorisation, misrepresenting himself as a plumber, and falsely advertising himself as a trained plumber on Builderscrack—a popular online forum for the public to seek the services of tradespeople.
Plumbers, Gasfitters and Drainlayers Board chief executive Max Pedersen said Lopez did not hold a plumbing licence when he completed sanitary plumbing work at a property in Remuera.
Lopez met the owners of the property at a local plumbing merchant store, told them he was a plumber, and provided them with advice on their current bathroom renovation project.
After this meeting, the homeowners hired Lopez to do plumbing work on bathroom renovations at the property.
Pedersen said plumbing, gasfitting and drainlaying were regulated industries and it was illegal to do this work unless authorised by the board.
"While New Zealand law allows anyone to purchase plumbing fittings, it is illegal to undertake any associated plumbing work without authorisation," he said.
"This type of dangerous work carried out by unauthorised people can cause injury and serious illness, as well as damage to property."
We have had an explosion and the central heating system that is a huge legionnaires risk......Darnley didn't do an apprenticeship....but got his full ticket........WHATS THE DIFFERENCE IN THIS GUY ABOVE, EXCEPT THE BOARD GAVE HIM A LICENCE....FFS.
AND HERE IS MY POINT..... HOW COULD THE PEOPLE OF NELSON KNOW HOW INCOMPETANT DARNLEY WAS IF HE WAS A FULLY CERTIFIED GASFITTER AND A MEMBER OF THE NZ INSTITUTE OF GAS ENGINEERS
I HAVE SEEN A LOT OF BAD STUFF INSTALLED BY THIS IDIOT, I FIXED ALL I CAME ACROSS.......WHAT ABOUT THE STUFF STILL TICKING LIKE A BOMB.
-
Lets organise a proper protest, mine is free as a base and I can pick people up from the airport, got a lot of room for tents. In box me some numbers and I am up for it.
-
If we can muster a similar turn out as we did for the protest when we had visiting royalty, all done properly, set up next to Mr Smiths caravan and let the people of Nelson (this very ministers own voters) know what risks the Board, empowered by this minister, is prepared to take with the safety of their families in their homes......... surely there would be a backlash and he would have to do something.
I can hand out a quick synopsis to passers by and then let them know why we charge like we do, to cover the ridiculous cost to practice our craft, and all the other stuff the Feds have shown these goons for.
The thing is these people of Nelson think that they had a certifying craftsman gasfitter/engineer who knew what he was doing he was a salesman with contacts....I can show you he didn't know shit from clay, I can prove the Board have covered up at the expense of the safety of the public, they still ignore to this day, it is wrong and the people would be appalled if they only knew.
-
Alot has been said about the FEW who have received their Certifying status unfairly. Has anyone else ever applied to have the need for an exam waived? If so, what is the procedure?, how did you get on and why don't we all try it?
-
Wombles mate, been there.....even though I had done a full gas service engineer apprenticeship with British Gas, I had to re sit everything except my practical gas craftsman paper, but still had to do the "accounting"paper though, then I had a dispensation to fit gas hot water plumbing, with TPR's and open vents, etc, but wasn't allowed to fit a toilet or outside tap, so I had to take off two weeks(when my son was convalescing from a major op) to prove that I could plumb and then do all the exams and then wait until I could sit my craftsman plumbing paper......
John Darnley got given his full ticket and a membership in NZIGE , then installs lots of shit.....and by shit I mean bad work, i.e. shit, for e.g...a central heating system off a califont with the same common/contaminated water for hot water, has all the evidence mentioned here for his involvement in an explosion.....
Who do the Board go after? Me!
I wonder why? How would Tony Hammond look if the pillock he empowered after a chat blew someone up......its a f****in joke.
-
FYI, ME AND DARNLEY ARE BOTH FROM WALES......one of us had done an apprenticeship and the other has a "chat".......So what is the difference there then?
You all have to ask the question are you connected enough to "get away with it", I can assure you 99% of you will be steamrollered if it suits them.
I am ex president of Nelson Master Plumbers and was told I was "in"......I tried to do the right thing.....I got shafted....and people are still at risk, it is nothing else but bollocks, total and utter bollocks.
-
In my book anyone who backs or covers up corruption is by definition corrupt, this is never going to be fixed by sweeping it under the carpet.
I think if this goes undressed then it will make the people responsible worse. Think about it, it is human nature.... when someone gets away with something it emboldens them to do it more.....so who's next to assume the position, who have you pissed off, who have you won a tender in front of, perhaps you spoke out of turn, had the wrong tie on, farted even........
Do any of you want to live like this? You've heard them about "fixing" or "railroading" people......they can only do this behind closed doors, out in the open they got nothing.
Will this attitude make things better for business? your average tradesman? or kiwi? Confidence and integrity in a system is its strength, peoples belief in it.... is why it works.
Is it my fault for showing the faults or is it their fault for abusing their positions of power, willing to risk the safety of the people of NZ....our families, neighbours and friends? I don't believe I am the problem here.
I don't believe it will help NZ to leave it, but will it make things better for the few power trippers, with too much already......sure it will, and if it goes unfixed it will be like a green light for them to do it again and again, and amass more and more.....I think it is very sad.
It needs fixing for everyone's sake.
I can see the emperor, his clothes aren't there, not a stitch on....he has his arse on show......and I think he looks ridiculous.
Go get some pants mate, its embarrassing.
-
Do me a favour...... just as your about to renew your licences at the end of the month, re-read this huge amount of evidence over, reflect on it then pay your money.....that couple of hundred bucks will seem a lot more.
Apparently Mr Pederson can shaft our industry like this......pontificate about untrained people risking the public......totally in the face of all this evidence.....then just walk away to count his money (over $200 000 per year, plus pension)......now that licence tastes like shite doesn't it? Paying for a piece of paper that allows you to crawl through shit and rubble to unblock pipes full of shit, while they hand them out to their mates......
They should be paying us to do this job, not leeching off it, it is parasitic. In the animal kingdom a creature that takes with out giving back, with no benefit to its host is a parasite....if it causes harm and pain.....well wikipedia says it best.....
Parasitism is a non-mutual symbiotic relationship between species, where one species, the parasite, benefits at the expense of the other.......
Sound familiar?
-
Sent today to Nick Smiths PA...............
Hi Kate,
This reply, attached, from Nick Smith does not address the problems and concerns that I have raised.
Just how much integrity is lacking in this situation is shown by the fact that John Darnley was gifted a full certifying gas licence with no formal apprenticeship. Then when John Darnley was involved in an explosion, blowing someone up, I was framed for it…….And the Board have covered it up since, appointing the very same person to investigate the explosion, Tony Hammond…..who is the same person who gifted the licence to John Darnley in the first place.
I do not have the funds to take this to a judicial review and cannot afford legal advice. I am happy to attend any committee and I offer all my evidence to prove this cover up, but I cannot finance the policing of this dodgy set up, it has cost me in the 100’s of thousands already.
I would have thought that Nick Smith would want to protect the people who voted him in. The man responsible for all this dangerous work, worked for many years in the Nelson area, it is a real concern that this all goes un-investigated after an explosion nearly kills someone, but no one is held accountable after spending over $200,000.00.
A check of the amount of certificates issued by John Darnley would indicate the extent and potential volume of the dodgy installs; I believe the amount would shock you as he would sign anyone off.
There is blatant proof of this cover up widely available, which is being ignored. This is so wrong. It should be looked at before someone else gets hurt.
What happens if the radiators open this year at the site of the legionnaires risk (the central heating system that I have warned about for many years, please see attachments’), flooding the hot water outlets with stagnant water and the elderly occupier dies? What will a judicial review do to revive him?
Please send this schematic attached to a neutral expert and ask if this system has the potential to kill, also attached is the cert and address of this job, you’ll notice that this cert shows only one form of heating water with gas, it is impossible to do this with a califont, i.e. to heat the hot water AND heat radiators without contaminating the hot water. Potable and non potable water should never mix.
Perhaps Nick, or Campbell live, or anyone from the Labour party…. you could visit this house and check if he has just one califont heating the hot water and rads. The old guy doesn’t seem to care when I tried to warn him…..but what happens if the place is sold? Someone puts their kids in this shower? (Atomised/sprayed water containing legionnaires’ will affect the old and young much more than anyone else). It is to gamble with people’s lives to hope I am wrong and that this will go away.
Why does everyone protect Darnley? He made money out of putting people in danger, these jobs and sites aren’t going anywhere, they are getting worse with time as they deteriorate and breakdown with age. This is the tip of an iceberg I saw so many dodgy jobs.
I really don’t want anyone to be harmed; this is why I spoke up in the first place. I warned about dodgy certs covering dodgy work 6 years before dodgy work covered by a dodgy cert nearly killed some one in an explosion, this is a fact.
There are over 5000 reads for the evidence I have posted on the link below, or is it ok to have a corrupt Board framing innocent people who try to do the right thing? Please take the time to read this wealth of evidence laid out for all to see.
http://www.plumbers.co.nz/forum/?topic=1810.new#new
Regards Paul Gee.
-
So the Board has a vision???? Have a read of this stream of evidence and compare the delusional hypocrisy.....
Perhaps they have double vision....lol. Jerks.
Vision and Values
a. Vision: The Plumbers, gasfitters, and Drainlayers Board (PGDB) exists so that, in respect of the provision of sanitary plumbing, gasfitting, and drainlaying services, the health and safety of members of the public is protected without undue cost.
b. Values:
i. Fairness
ii. Impartiality
iii. Transparency
iv. Trustworthyness
-
Badger, have you thought of taking this up with Winston Peters. He seems quite against people who are wronged. At the recent meetings in Northland it would seem that he alone (of all MP's) has integrity. Worth a try.
-
I have tried every single MP in Parliament, but I will try again.....and again and again...
The worst part is they seem to not want to open Pandora's box and are hoping this will go away.....but this guys work is still there ticking away, I have seen it.....all of the really bad ones I put right (approx five or six a year)....no one wants to know because they aren't dangerous any more!!
Sadly it will probably take another incident, then they will look for another scapegoat.......I just hope and pray I am wrong, but I have seen too much to doubt it.....I truly believe it is a matter of time, just like last time.....Remember I spent 6 years warning last time....BEFORE THE EXPLOSION......but then they framed me for it.
-
Politician's? Ha, As a rule they have no honesty, no integrity and certainly do not work in the interests of the majority of voters.
As for Mr Peters I remember well a certain Wine box he sold out on,
perhaps things might be a lot different now if he had not.
It is the Industry as a whole that has to stand up and have a voice collectively. That cannot be ignored, downplayed or passed off as a 'bunch of malcontents' & swept under the carpet.
The Socialist slogan 'United we stand, Divided we fall' is as relevant now as it was back in the day.
-
I totally agree mate, any ideas what we can do?
-
hi guys,
-
Judicial review over CTV engineer investigation
24
March
2015
By Hon Dr Nick Smith
Building and Housing
Share on
Facebook
Twitter
The Government has lodged an application before the High Court to seek a judicial review of the decision by the Institute of Professional Engineers of New Zealand (IPENZ) to drop its investigation into Dr Alan Reay’s role in the design of the CTV building, with the documents served to Dr Reay this afternoon.
“The collapse of the CTV building during the 22 February 2011 earthquake resulted in the tragic death of 115 people and rates as one of New Zealand’s worst engineering failures. We owe it to the memory of those who lost their lives to hold those responsible to account for the building’s flawed design, and to ensure every possible lesson is learnt by the engineering profession to minimise the future risk,” Dr Smith says.
“We are taking this judicial review because we believe the decision to drop the investigation into Dr Alan Reay after he resigned from IPENZ was flawed. We want the decision overturned and IPENZ to complete the investigation into the professional conduct of Dr Reay’s role in the design of the CTV building.”
The Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment’s Chief Engineer lodged a complaint with IPENZ in 2012, sparking the IPENZ investigation. Dr Reay resigned from IPENZ on 28 February 2014 and consequently IPENZ discontinued the disciplinary processes against him, as IPENZ considered it no longer had jurisdiction to deal with a former member. A subsequent decision by the High Court in September 2014 regarding Mr David Harding, the other engineer involved in the design of the CTV building, ruled that an investigation and disciplinary hearing could continue even when a member resigned.
The proceedings filed in the High Court seek to set aside the decision by IPENZ to dismiss the complaint so that the disciplinary investigation can proceed. This proceeding is separate to the complaint that is currently being heard by IPENZ that Dr Alan Reay failed to disclose his involvement in the CTV building when he sought renewal of his registration as a Chartered Professional Engineer in 2012.
“It is important that we clarify the law as to whether a professional can avoid disciplinary proceedings by simply resigning. Completing the IPENZ investigation will also be important in clarifying the professional standards expected of a senior engineer supervising the work of a more junior engineer,” Dr Smith says.
“The proceedings are complementary and not an alternative to reforms to improve the regulation of professional engineering. We released a discussion paper late last year on proposed changes and, after we have considered submissions, will be progressing with legislative change.”
-
So Dr Smith says that......
“It is important that we clarify the law as to whether a professional can avoid disciplinary proceedings by simply resigning. Completing the IPENZ investigation will also be important in clarifying the professional standards expected of a senior engineer supervising the work of a more junior engineer,” Dr Smith says.
I agree Mr Smith.....
Please can someone explain how can Darnley face a charge for an explosion but then it disappears?.....well he did resign from the gas arm of IPENZ see news letter from NZIGE the gas arm of IPENZ.......funny that......
-
Also you have to ask how can someone who hasn't even sat an apprenticeship can not only get his full craftsman licence but he can also have the connections to become a member of an engineering organisation, which I am guessing you have to be an engineer to join?
Now if you were the person who gifted this muppet a full licence and was responsible for investigating an explosion....who would you rather do for the explosion, the person you gave a licence to after just a chat..... or frame some stoodge?
Not to mention that Mr Hammond was the very same person who lobbied for the self cert system, the same system that was run so badly that it had to carry a disclaimer.....FFS.
I complained to the Board about Mr Hammond's appointment to be the "impartial" investigator, Mr Hammond then went on to misrepresent evidence and hide photos that proved what I had said was true.
Have a read of the transcript of my attempt to stay proceedings and apply all the evidence that is listed on this stream.......have a rad of who presided over this hearing.....who knew most of this evidence.......
Now apply it to a job you may have made a mistake on, or someone has altered your work (as happened to me)....and it blows up or hurts someone.........ARE YOU PREPARED TO LOOSE EVERYHTING?
I tried for 6 years to fix this BFORE the explosion......that's fair aye!
-
So lets have a look at the presiding Board members....bare in mind I was an ex president of nelson Master Plumbers
Mr Mark Whitehead - Chair Master Plumber
Mr Peter Jackson Master Plumber
Mr Stephen Parker GANZ and NZIGE later to be the chair of the hearing which he stopped just as I was nearly proven innocent
Mr William Irvine
?
Mr Graham Hardie Master Plumber
Tony Hammond NZIGE GANZ Investigator supposedly "impartial" which is total bullshit.....he is one dirty little turd.
So your gamble is....... and remember you can't do anything about who visits your work after you have installed it......are you more connected than the other guy.......is this the type of disciplinary system you want to gamble your livelihood and reputation on, even your family.....I am blessed with an absolute angel of a wife and am very lucky she didn't think f**** this for a laugh and walked out, believe me she was put through enough to leave.....then these morons would have seen some carnage believe me.
-
The thing is I don't even think they were protecting Darnley, although he was connected enough to get given a licence and be welcomed as a member of NZIGE, they were protecting themselves.....the ones who allowed the flippant issuing of a full certifying gas fitting licence and a cert system run so bad they were accepting certs with no test results or signatures, etc some certs being highlighted of this essential information with highlight pen....I kid you not I got the copies.
They threatened me with a handwriting expert, but ignores Darnley when he says he don't recognise his own handwriting......dodgy as...
Someone nearly dies and they covered it up while the poor sod was recovering in a burns unit......remember this......below
Vision and Values
a. Vision: The Plumbers, gasfitters, and Drainlayers Board (PGDB) exists so that, in respect of the provision of sanitary plumbing, gasfitting, and drainlaying services, the health and safety of members of the public is protected without undue cost. they had no problem with spending $250 000 to terrorise my family
b. Values:
i. Fairness ignoring evidence and photos
ii. Impartiality stacking the hearing with their cabal of dodgy mates, even having the chair and investigator who are thick as thieves
iii. Transparency not being fully up front with info, relationships and hiding evidence
iv. Trustworthyness See the above and apply it to this bullshit press release
It is the opposite of this that they publically pontificate about.....are you enjoying being treated like a bunch of fools?
-
So all these Master Plumbers who not only stood by and watched me get screwed over and framed for something I did not do, while the real guilty walk away, with no one held responsible......and I was an ex Nelson President of Master Plumbers..........
Well I think they ignored their own rules....from the "rule" book attached below....
Members will not criticise another's workmanship or pricing policies
Now all these people stood by and not only criticised my work, but watched me get set up.....
Now I down loaded this copy of rules ... 29 10 12
-
Now compare the past rules with the new ones, attached, Master Plumber's Rules-passed-at-AGM-23 03 12.
Have a look for the rule about....Members will not criticise another's workmanship or pricing policies.....I am having trouble finding it, it seems more concerned with logo's and van stickers to me
So what would this tell you about the hierarchies' future intentions for their "fellow" members......
-
Please can someone explain this change of direction to me.....
I brought these rules up at the "impartiality" hearing.....and they just ignored their own rules and screwed me over......so what is the point of rules if you don't abide by them?
-
Perhaps a Master Plumber member could explain their take on this direction or perhaps ask those that signed off on these new rules?
I am pretty sure that someone from the MP hierarchy reads this forum, I mean they tried to take me to a Master Plumber disciplinary tribunal, AFTER, the kangaroo court hearing.... for comments made on this forum, this forcing me to hand in my resignation from MP.
You see I thought Master Plumbers was a fraternity with morals and standards that promoted safety and compliance, I suppose I got that wrong.
Perhaps one of the people on the Master Plumber's discipline committee, from the threatened disciplinary mentioned above, could explain?
-
So the Boards promised reply date is today, nothing received.....a broken promise by the Board.....whats new?
Sent this morning.
Mr Pederson,
I understand you are resigning; please can you let me know to whom I should complain to at the Board about my historical issues and this new issue of the lack of a promised response by the 3 of April 2015, as the date of this promise is today. With it being Easter I am guessing nothing will be done until the holiday period is over.
Ms Adair, I am complaining in this email to the Ombudsman about this ignoring of a promised response date mentioned in this letter, I feel it reflects the attitude and ability of these people. Perhaps there is something in Mr Darnley’s file that the Board would rather stay hidden. Perhaps those with more clout than me copied in could check?
Please can you also inform me of the progress of the other points in my complaints mention in this letter attached?
The health and safety of the NZ public has been put in jeopardy by those entrusted with its safe keeping, this is reprehensible. I have a wealth of evidence, I will share it with any one that is interested or cares.
Regards Paul Gee
-
So I get a reply today, there are two mistakes, minor and not really a big deal, but I ask you all this, what happens when we make minor mistakes, can we apologise and move on? Mistake one not allowing for Easter in the reply date and it was point 7 not 12 in my letter of complaint.
I did absolutely nothing wrong and got severely shafted and framed for something I did not do, while they spent well over $200,000.00 terrorising my family and telling lies.
They have asked for an extension of three weeks......anyone know what day is Max's last day at the Board?
No one held responsible for a near fatal explosion, exploded 9th April 2009......six years later and we got this reply....you seen the handwriting expert and all the evidence, the missing certs and out of date letters, lying letters that they had to apologise for......
6 years.....no one held responsible, the poor guy was in a burns unit when they were covering it up and framing me, how about the 580 signed certs sold, still before the Board 6 years later.......#Invalid YouTube Link#
-
hi guys/Badger. ( what day is Max's last day at the Board) it will make no difference he is still responsible and if he isn`t then it will be the minister as he O.K.'s all of the boards actions,cheers
-
So when some one leaves, do they have access to the Board's lawyers?
-
The Board has all this evidence posted on here and then some more, the majority of what I have posted was provided by the Board, except the hand writing expert, but they did threaten me with a hand writing expert.....
Six years have passed after nearly killing someone.....and they do nothing ignoring blatant evidence, even allowing evidence to be suppressed......
Is this acceptable to you? Does this seem like the people who should pontificate about safety, CPD and untrained un-licenced people practicing?
Ask for the card? ........ How about a 6th Birthday Card for the inaction and cover up that the board has carried out, after someone nearly gets killed.....really?
-
If any of this is untrue......where's my letters from their lawyers?
Surly if this is untrue it is liable or slanderous.....I have put this in the public forum for some years now and nothing from one of the most trigger happy of Boards, when it comes to setting the lawyers on to tradesman....what does this tell you?
It tells you that all I have said is irrefutable.....
-
Any one know who the new Registrar is? When is Max's last day? Be nice to have a fresh face to talk to.
So we have had a Board sacked, I have dealt with that many lawyers I can't remember all their names, Routhan went, kern got managed out, Bickers left, Stephen Parker went, all the others who have "not been reinstated after their term", we had a minister having to resign after backing a wife beater......and now Max is soon to be off, .....what a train wreck....and things are as crap as ever, if not worse.
So they come and they go, they cause mayhem and then toddle off......where's that dealing with unreasonable people policy?
And we are left to deal with the fallout.....that's pretty unreasonable aye!
-
hi guys, yes Badge it's a train wreck all right. I can`t imagine that anyone will want to take up the position to be the main man in all the crap that has been going on and continuing on a daily basis until changes are made. He or she will get stressed out with all the bad press and complaints which will spill over into his or her family life to the point where another resignation will be made and no improvements to the very unstable P G D Board situation, cheers
-
I just hope it is someone who wants to fix things and not make it worse and I really hope everyone gives this person a chance to do just that.
Please god no one who just wants the money and will try to help cover up all the bullshit.
In my opinion, they have to acknowledge all the wrong doing and the cover ups and address them, before we can move on, otherwise they are complicit in that cover up and as corrupt as the rest of them.
All I hope is that they don't start with....."I am new, nothing to do with me".
-
hi guys, Badger sounds like the only man for the job is: WAL GORDON because you say, (In my opinion, they have to acknowledge all the wrong doing and the cover ups and address them, before we can move on, otherwise they are complicit in that cover up and as corrupt as the rest of them) cheers
-
I can think of no one better for the job than Wal mate.
Wal is fair minded, unbiased and puts up with zero bullshit, which are the very qualifications that would exclude him from the Board ever giving him a go, sadly.
-
So there is a public out cry for the PM pulling a young lady's pony tail......
Have a read of this wealth of evidence of a cover up, a framing of an innocent party and protecting someone who caused an explosion that nearly killed someone, dangerous work ignored.......
Lucky that poor waitress wasn't a plumber....
Sometimes I wonder WTF is going on.....
-
So they can't locate Darnley's "extensive" file......
So Kern what "extensive file" were you on about at my hearing?? Perhaps you got it wrong like the letter you sent to all my customers telling them I was acting illegally in Northland, a place I have never been to.....but the guy who signed 540 certs blank and sold them, well he was from Northland.....
or
Perhaps it went to the same place (in all probability the shredder) as the cert for the explosion, which was never received by the Board but magically appeared on its electronic website.
Max's swan song.....he can't find a file.....see attached letter....
-
And my reply......
Mr Pederson,
Just a copy of his file will suffice, this smacks of a cover up. Why did you require an extension of time?
Perhaps his file went the same way of the missing certificates that cover dangerous work, one of these missing certs covered work that ended in an explosion.
This is so very wrong, this man worked in Nelson for many years empowered by a licence that was given to him after a chat.
Paul Gee
-
It has taken since the 6th March to get to this, they must have looked high and low for the file, lol.
Still nothing about the complaints I made in my letter of the 6th March see below, I will keep you posted.....
Mr Pederson,
I am laying a formal complaint against Mr Darnley’s involvement re- the explosion at the Milton Street Chipshop. I believe he might be responsible for this explosion and I am complaining about this so you can appoint an investigator to find out; please appoint an investigator that Darnley isn’t friends with or is a member of any groups that Darnley was/is a member of.
I would complain that Darnley didn’t register the pink master copy of cert 345138, while handing out the carbon copies to the customer and gas supplier.
I would also complain that all available copies lack a recording of a gas leak test, at a site that later exploded…..because of a gas leak, a gas leak on a hose supplied by Darnley’s company Allgas, weeks after I left Allgas. Please see attached receipt for this hose. Please note I left the year before in 2003.
I have reason to believe that it was Darnley who installed the fryers; please see the handwriting samples supplied to you just recently also attached.
I would also complain that after altering my initial install and changing the gas cylinder supply set up and changing the hose ( the hose mentioned above, the one that caused the explosion) that a further certificate wasn’t issued.
I hope you do not take your previous stand that my having faced charges for this debacle protects Darnley in someway from my complaint, you have said that you can’t revisit my case; please open a new case, one that is fair and transparent.
I would also take this chance, to yet, again lay a complaint about the legionnaire’s risk, installed by Mr Darnley. Please see attachment, this dwelling has central heating with radiators, an impossibility with out contaminating the hot water supply when heated with the califont on the cert. You have this blatant evidence, please act on it. It is very dangerous plumbing and this is your jurisdiction, no one else’s. Please note it is that time of year where the thermostatic heads on the radiators are opening and the 11 year old water is being atomised by the elderly mans shower (any plumber worth his salt would know this to be a ticking time bomb, a matter of when not if there will be an issue, it has the potential to kill.)
And I would also complain about the manipulation of the gas certificates at Powick Street, by my reckoning it is missing at least 2 certificates for work carried out, and as far as I know it still has the lpg cylinders on the deck, this was of such concern that the Board laid charges against myself. As I have proved that it was impossible for me to have done this, I would complain about the person who did. According to your correspondence you have made no other contact to the owner of Powick Street, other than the letter that said I was capable of acting illegally in Northland which was sent out before my hearing, my hearing showed this manipulation and the Board have done nothing. Just for the record I have never been to Northland.
Again, I hope you do not take the stand that my having faced charges for this protects the person responsible in someway and you can’t revisit my case, I am not asking you to revisit my case, please open a new case, one that is fair and transparent.
Also I would complain that even though someone nearly died because of bad, very bad gasfitting and shoddy practices, that no one has been held responsible for nearly killing Ron Clark.
I am appalled that even though Darnley didn’t sit an apprenticeship the Board saw fit to gift him (and others) his/their full craftsman/certifying status, I would complain about this flippant issuing of a licence that resulted in empowering a person not fit to practice, that at least once has ended in an explosion.
Also Kern Uren stated at my hearing that Mr Darnley had an extensive file, please by way of an OIA request can I get a copy of this extensive file and the basis for gifting Darnley his licence, please blank out all names as I do not want to invade anyone’s privacy. I am willing to cover the photocopying cost.
And my last complaint is that the Board have covered up a badly administered gas safety certificate and licence system that resulted in a near fatal explosion, I complain about this dereliction of duty.
I believe all the above are reasonable grounds for laying these complaints.
Regards Paul Gee
-
But it is my name that is sullied by all this..... really? That's reasonable.....
I just want to clear my name and have this guys potential dangerous worked looked at...........its that simple.....
-
So the present registrar can't find the file that the registrar before him said was extensive, perhaps the registrar before both of these registrars took it with him when he took a massive amount of info with him when they sacked him..........you couldn't make this shit up.....
Remember this poor man mentioned below.........any one know Ron Clark , poor bugger spent 2 weeks in intensive care, let him know about this wealth of evidence.
Wed, 12 Jan 2011 7:32p.m.
By Emma Joliff
A fish and chip shop owner injured in a gas explosion last year blames shoddy workmanship for the explosion which cost him his health, his confidence and his livelihood.
Ron Clark had to flee his Nelson fish and chip shop and spent two weeks in intensive care.
"An enormous bang, the wall went, the roof went, I'm standing there and the skins coming off my legs," says Mr Clark.
It took six months to rebuild the shop but he says it was all too stressful and he could no longer work. Mr Clark estimates between making a loss in selling the shop and the shortfall in rebuilding, he's more than $120,000 out of pocket.
"Basically I couldn't keep business going, it was all too much. You end up having to sell it and get out. eight years of work down the toilet."
The issue of gas certification was highlighted recently by the sacking of chief executive Philip Routhan, who claimed there were potentially hundreds of faulty gas installations in New Zealand.
"These guys get away with bloody murder, doesn't do his job, gets fired, goes back and says I want my job back. Well I'd like my shop back, I'd like my life back, Id like my health back, you know there are a lot of things I'd like back," says Mr Clark.
Mr Routhan's attempt to get his job back was rejected.
"If the authorities don't check the certification of all of these things then we might as well be living in a third world country."
The Department of Labour laid a complaint with the Plumbers, Gasfitters and Drainlayers Board after the blast," says Mr Clark.
The board says it's now completed its investigation and two men, aged 53 and 38, are due to appear at a Disciplinary Tribunal hearing in February.
Perhaps I can ask the next registrar....what a joke we have had for well over 10 years......
I am going to ask each and every new registrar to deal with it (same as with the other "public offices" that are trying to sweep this under the carpet)......I will reach a time where the new guy just wants to make a name for him/her self...a new broom sweeps cleanest.
-
This is the reality of the cover up........see below a link......
http://www.3news.co.nz/nznews/shoddy-workmanship-blamed-for-gas-explosion--2011011218#comments
-
The link below doesn't work but if you google it, it is on the TV 3 website......
Interesting what the news clip says about the 38 and 53 year old facing a tribunal......I was 38 and face a charge for the chipshop......no one else has faced a charge for the explosion at a hearing.....Darnley was facing a charge, but it disappeared....
Listen to what the news segment says about dodgy certs and dangerous work....
-
The board says it's now completed its investigation and two men, aged 53 and 38, are due to appear at a Disciplinary Tribunal hearing in February.
So where did the charge go for Darnley? Remember this letter below........
-
Just watching Paul Henery on TV 3......
Nick Smith just said that his main concern is to remove the bureaucratic red tape to allow the housing market to become affordable...........
How about removing ridiculous CPD, illegal taking of money from tradies ($2 000 000), cover ups, corruption and incompetence along with the red tape.
Most of all prevent the monopoly being set up in the Plumbing industry, where if your connected you can get away with all sorts of dangerous work and if you speak out about it you can be framed and set up. This is worse because as well as causing unnecessary cost it puts the public at risk at the same time.
-
Thank you for contacting Paul Henry.
Copy of your email:
Lets see if we can get some public exposure.....
Name: Paul Gee
Email: gspservices@xtra.co.nz
Subject: corrupt plumbers board
Message: Hi Paul, Please see a story of a cover up that puts the NZ public at risk and adds undue cost to building a home in NZ. http://www.plumbers.co.nz/forum/?topic=1810.new#new This link list some of the blatant evidence my family have witnessed and been subjected to. I have a huge body of evidence. Best Regards Paul Gee, 0274 33 33 50
I will push this until it gets looked at, every time the guard changes I will try the new replacement, until it gets sorted.
-
Just to keep all this together I have copied this comment to this thread, because I can send the link to as many people as I can, with over 7000 reads this seems to work, two things I can not abide are bullies and hypocrites I have encountered more than my fair share.....
How can we rely on an Ombudsman who appears to be so selective, he also wrote this below, but after receiving this email attached and all the evidence posted on here, he decided to use his discretion not to look at how I was investigated.....
First, what do I mean by evidence? My Oxford English dictionary tells me that the word comes via Old French from the Latin evidentia, meaning ‘obvious to the eye or mind’ – from videre, to see. This is revealing, since one of the most common criticisms of medical (or gas ?) regulators when a licensed doctor has harmed patients, is that the board turned a ‘blind eye’ to the available evidence.
And from another paper….
Finding effective ways to raise concerns within the health (or may be gas?) system is a particular concern. Too often, health professionals (or may be gasfitters?) who attempt to do so lack institutional support and are met by denial and resistance. Even external inquiry bodies learn to expect re-litigation of findings by interested parties, denigration by critics, and revisionism by subsequent commentators who did not hear all the evidence and sometimes seem wilfully blind to it!
* My additions in brackets.
It appears that the Ombudsman is there for damage control not fairness, fairness denied to the plumbers of this country....why not change the law to make it all legal.....oh wait there they did that to take 2 million dollars off us.......that's fair!
-
Sent earlier today, I will let you know how I go.....
Dear Ombudsman,
I am appealing the use by Mr Patterson of using “discretion” in ignoring how I was, to use the term loosely, “investigated”, more a kin to being framed and set up as scape goat.
Please can you tell me why you think it is helpful to ignore such blatant evidence and please do this in light of your comments below,
First, what do I mean by evidence? My Oxford English dictionary tells me that the word comes via Old French from the Latin evidentia, meaning ‘obvious to the eye or mind’ – from videre, to see. This is revealing, since one of the most common criticisms of medical (or gas ?) regulators when a licensed doctor has harmed patients, is that the board turned a ‘blind eye’ to the available evidence.
And from another paper….
Finding effective ways to raise concerns within the health (or may be gas?) system is a particular concern. Too often, health professionals (or may be gasfitters?) who attempt to do so lack institutional support and are met by denial and resistance. Even external inquiry bodies learn to expect re-litigation of findings by interested parties, denigration by critics, and revisionism by subsequent commentators who did not hear all the evidence and sometimes seem wilfully blind to it!
* My additions in brackets.
And this comment not attributable to you
An abuse of discretion is a failure to take into proper consideration the facts and law relating to a particular matter; an arbitrary or unreasonable departure from precedent and settled judicial custom."[8] On appeal of an exercise of judicial discretion, "abuse of discretion" is a standard of review requiring the appellate court to find that the lower court's decision would "shock the conscience" of a reasonable person in order to reverse the decision below.
Yours Sincerely Paul Gee
-
If nothing is done I will wait until the new replacement is in office and ask the incumbent to look at it, and keep doing it until someone takes this up.....
-
So the Ombudsman appears not to think Plumbers need any fairness, I wonder if we have any human rights......see below
Hi Ataraiti,
Supplementary to my previous email sent tonight, to back my story there is a stream on a “Plumbers forum” where I have shown some of the ignored and suppressed evidence.
I believe I was entitled to a fair unbiased investigation and hearing, but I was set up and an attempt to frame me was carried out. The Board had a history of a 100% conviction rate previous to my case and I don’t believe they expected me to fight this as I have. I think this is shown by the fact that no one to this day has been held responsible for a near fatal explosion, but I have lost my business, reputation and time with my family when I was forced to work away to support them for two years.
I believe my wife had her human rights denied her when they sent to my home child sexual abuse cases notes to prove their point on probabilities, my wife opened and read them as they were not marked of their vile content, they sent three cases to prove a point all three were of a deviant sexual nature, this caused my wife a huge amount of stress and upset.
I believe a citizen of this country, any country, deserve a unbiased “trial” and not to have their families terrorised by a government backed industry board.
The link to the evidence posted on the “Plumber’s forum” is below,
http://www.plumbers.co.nz/forum/?topic=1810.new#new
Thank you I look forward to your reply
Best Regards Paul Gee.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Paul & Emma [mailto:gspservices@xtra.co.nz]
Sent: Monday, 4 May 2015 4:46 p.m.
To: 'Ataraiti Whyte'
Subject: RE: Matter Ref: ST105561
Thank you Ataraiti,
Thank you for your reply.
Sadly the information I have provided is just a snap shot and there has been further evidence come to light since.
Best Regards Paul Gee
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Ataraiti Whyte [mailto:AtaraitiW@hrc.co.nz]
Sent: Monday, 4 May 2015 1:34 p.m.
To: 'gspservices@xtra.co.nz'
Subject: Matter Ref: ST105561
4 May 2015
Dear Paul
Thank you for your email, which was received by the Human Rights Commission on 24 April 2015.
We apologise for the delay in response, are now considering your complaint and aim to contact you within 15 working days.
If you need to contact us, telephone 0800 496 877 or email infoline@hrc.co.nz . We are able to provide confidential services for interpreting in 42 languages, and NZ Relay Service for those with speech or hearing impairments.
Yours sincerely
Ataraiti Whyte
Infoline Operator / Reception
Enquiries and Complaints Team
-
To the 28 guests, please leave a comment I am trying to open a discussion in an open forum whether it is acceptable for an innocent man who warned about dodgy work covered by dodgy safety gas certificates, issued by a government industry board, that ended in an explosion.....the industry board who had to add a disclaimer to these certs because of their incompetence.....then appoints than investigator who gave a license to the man they are protecting...........
Confusing I know, please take the time to read this thread and look at the evidence.
These people nearly gave my wife and I a nervous breakdown while they pontificate about public safety, when it is them who placed the public in harms way, especially after handing out a gas fitting licence flippantly to an un scrupulous connected person.
Please make this go viral and share share share, thank you.
-
The Ombudsman who's mantra is " fairness for all "......has used discretion not to look at it, he took 2 years to tell me this....
Lets see what the human rights commission thinks of my human rights....
Are Plumbers inhuman??????????.....if you treat people as though they are inhuman, they tend to act like they are inhuman.
-
From the attached government fact sheet.....
The Office of the Ombudsman can also look into complaints about corrupt behaviour.
So I wonder why he used his power of discretion not to look at my huge body of evidence...
-
hi guys/Badger, i think this says it all, cheers
...
What is bribery and corruption?
Bribery and corruption can take various forms, including secret commissions, kickbacks and other forms of unlawful payments. Corruption also encompasses a number of offences such as fraud, abuse of one’s position of power and money laundering.
What are warnings signs of corruption?
Some of the warning signs that your business has been exposed to corrupt activity include:
abnormally high profit margins
business arrangements that serve no apparent commercial purpose
reimbursement requests for undefined costs relating to goods or services
unusually high and unjustified commission payments
apparent ‘special’ treatment.
-
You'll notice the Robbo that the apparent apparent ‘special’ treatment that has been meted out to me (in a persecution-ary way) and to Darnley (in a protection-ary) way is undeniable.
The thing is..... in a system like this not one of us can be sure of a fair go or justice, you can only live in the hope that the bullies don't come after you. This is unacceptable.
-
Check this out I thought the Board only had one file on each of us......
Apparently this ain't so.......see attached
-
A cover up perhaps, trying to narrow the info.....whats in this file???
-
How many bloody files do these dodgy buggers have on us?
Mr Pederson,
Your letter received today….the second letter attached, (I have renamed it “playing for time Darnley file”), gives the impression that the Board holds several files on each tradesman.
Please by way of OIA request can you clarify how many files you hold on each plumber, or Gasfitter or Drainlayer, if it is just the one file as I suspect…..please can you forwards me a copy of Darnley’s file or are you playing for time until you leave or trying to hide something by narrowing my search?
I want a copy of his full and comprehensive file.
Kind Regards Paul Gee.
-
I asked to see a copy of Darnley's "extensive" file.....Kern's words not mine.....
First they can't find an "extensive" file.....
Now they don't know which file.....
This is the same guy that faced a charge for an explosion......but it magically disappeared hmmmm funny that.....
The OIA was brought about to curb corruption.......what they don't say and what they refuse to show.......speaks volumes doesn't it!!!!!!!!
-
So one Board Registrar (on record at my hearing) says Darnley's file is extensive and that he has seen it.....
Then the next registrar can't find this extensive file and then can't choose which file to pick from..... Seemingly out of the multitude of potential files that, apparently, the Board hold on all of US.......
Sounds like the Stazi or KGB....
Certs missing, charges disappear, hiding evidence and photos.....now the extremes of files that are missing or they can't choose which one to pick from the many......what a pack of clowns.....
-
I could "almost" handle these dodgy dealings (not really ) if they were any good at it, but this is laughable......
How do you feel about financing such a group of non tax paying charity cases(LOL), paying to practice a trade that you actually sat an apprenticeship for, when they hand out licences to their mates, then cover up for them while pontificating about safety.......
Where is that "dealing with unreasonable people" policy gone.......needs rolling up into a nice sphincter sized roll and applying it where it is needed most and could be most effective ;)
-
Please to the 32 people reading this take the time to read the bulk of evidence at who the Board covered up an explosion that put a guy in intensive care for two weeks and ruined my life......share if you care, hell share if you don't care......
-
Hi guys, Badger this coverup is incredible, you would think that they would want to sort it! Someone needs putting up against the wall, cheers
-
But its OK if your a little bit corrupt........ you know you only do it sometimes for friends.....that's reasonable aye.
If anyone is being subjected to the persecution of a witch-hunt that these goons are very capable of (you've seen SOME of the evidence) please feel free to use my case as a means of not recognising their authority, integrity, competence and to have a reasonable grounds for a lack of confidence in their ability to apply the Act in a fair and just manner.
This stands until they address the complete bullshit that they inflicted on my family.
-
How long does it take to look at plain blatant evidence?
Dear PGDB
Please can you pass this to the new registrar and let me know when I might see some action on these valid complaints; please see below with evidence attached. It has been some considerable time since I made these complaints.
So far re- point 12 in these complaints below, the Board “can’t find” Mr Darnley’s extensive file, then ridiculously they can’t choose which file out of many files held. This is ludicrous. Please see attached your replies; I have attached these for your convenience. I believe there is damning evidence in this file and the Board’s flannelling is an attempt to prevent its disclosure, which is very telling indeed.
Also supplementary to these other complaints, I would also complain that the Board issued 4 books of gas safety certs to Mr Darnley. These were issued in my name but ordered and paid for by Darnley, he did this AFTER I had told him I was leaving his employ and resulted in incorrect data entered in my name on the Board’s failed electronic cert system (fox-pro system).
Also supplementary to these other complaints, I am complaining about the Board allowing a gas safety cert to be altered in my name, this was requested AFTER I had left Allgas’ employ, the Board acted on a letter issued in my name, without my permission. I have attached the “period of my employment” and the request to alter the cert in my name, I DID NOT make this request.
This cover up, done at my expense, is reprehensible and I will not let this go until I clear my name.
Regards Paul Gee
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Paul & Emma [mailto:gspservices@xtra.co.nz]
Sent: Friday, 6 March 2015 11:03 a.m.
To: 'Registrar'; 'complaints@pgdb.co.nz'
Cc: 'Wal Gordon'; 'Allan Day'; 'Colleen Upton'; 'Lyndon Moffitt'; 'campbelllive@tv3.co.nz'; 'Andrew Little'; 'jacinda.ardern@parliament.govt.nz'; 'Janis Adair'; 'Jude Hutton'; 'Nick 4 Nelson'; 'campbelllive@tv3.co.nz'
Subject: Complaint
Mr Pederson,
I am laying a formal complaint against Mr Darnley’s involvement re- the explosion at the Milton Street Chipshop. I believe he might be responsible for this explosion and I am complaining about this so you can appoint an investigator to find out; please appoint an investigator that Darnley isn’t friends with or is a member of any groups that Darnley was/is a member of.
I would complain that Darnley didn’t register the pink master copy of cert 345138, while handing out the carbon copies to the customer and gas supplier.
I would also complain that all available copies lack a recording of a gas leak test, at a site that later exploded…..because of a gas leak, a gas leak on a hose supplied by Darnley’s company Allgas, weeks after I left Allgas. Please see attached receipt for this hose. Please note I left the year before in 2003.
I have reason to believe that it was Darnley who installed the fryers; please see the handwriting samples supplied to you just recently also attached.
I would also complain that after altering my initial install and changing the gas cylinder supply set up and changing the hose ( the hose mentioned above, the one that caused the explosion) that a further certificate wasn’t issued.
I hope you do not take your previous stand that my having faced charges for this debacle protects Darnley in someway from my complaint, you have said that you can’t revisit my case; please open a new case, one that is fair and transparent.
I would also take this chance, to yet, again lay a complaint about the legionnaire’s risk, installed by Mr Darnley. Please see attachment, this dwelling has central heating with radiators, an impossibility with out contaminating the hot water supply when heated with the califont on the cert. You have this blatant evidence, please act on it. It is very dangerous plumbing and this is your jurisdiction, no one else’s. Please note it is that time of year where the thermostatic heads on the radiators are opening and the 11 year old water is being atomised by the elderly mans shower (any plumber worth his salt would know this to be a ticking time bomb, a matter of when not if there will be an issue, it has the potential to kill.)
And I would also complain about the manipulation of the gas certificates at Powick Street, by my reckoning it is missing at least 2 certificates for work carried out, and as far as I know it still has the lpg cylinders on the deck, this was of such concern that the Board laid charges against myself. As I have proved that it was impossible for me to have done this, I would complain about the person who did. According to your correspondence you have made no other contact to the owner of Powick Street, other than the letter that said I was capable of acting illegally in Northland which was sent out before my hearing, my hearing showed this manipulation and the Board have done nothing. Just for the record I have never been to Northland.
Again, I hope you do not take the stand that my having faced charges for this protects the person responsible in someway and you can’t revisit my case, I am not asking you to revisit my case, please open a new case, one that is fair and transparent.
Also I would complain that even though someone nearly died because of bad, very bad gasfitting and shoddy practices, that no one has been held responsible for nearly killing Ron Clark.
I am appalled that even though Darnley didn’t sit an apprenticeship the Board saw fit to gift him (and others) his/their full craftsman/certifying status, I would complain about this flippant issuing of a licence that resulted in empowering a person not fit to practice, that at least once has ended in an explosion.
Also Kern Uren stated at my hearing that Mr Darnley had an extensive file, please by way of an OIA request can I get a copy of this extensive file and the basis for gifting Darnley his licence, please blank out all names as I do not want to invade anyone’s privacy. I am willing to cover the photocopying cost.
And my last complaint is that the Board have covered up a badly administered gas safety certificate and licence system that resulted in a near fatal explosion, I complain about this dereliction of duty.
I believe all the above are reasonable grounds for laying these complaints.
Regards Paul Gee
-
still waiting......
-
Well you have seen the evidence on here and you have seen how the Board has not addressed any of this......
This delusional reply took three frickin months to write.....
I expected no less, and you can be sure you will be treated the same if it suits them......
-
You can see all who know, look at the email address's.....my reply to all this.
The Ombudsman's Office is here for FAIRNESS........really?
From: Paul & Emma [mailto:gspservices@xtra.co.nz]
Sent: Thursday, 11 June 2015 9:30 p.m.
To: 'Info'; 'Sam McLean'; 'Nick 4 Nelson'; 'Nicola White'; 'Janis Adair'; 'Jude Hutton'; 'Andrew Little'; 'Andrew.McCaw@ombudsmen.parliament.nz'; 'damien.oconnor@parliament.govt.nz'; 'john.key@national.org.nz'; 'Judith Burney'; 'Rt. Hon. Winston Peters'; Craig Hooper - Coolhead Productions Ltd; 'Office of Sarah Dowie MP'; 'phil.twyford@parliament.govt.nz'
Cc: 'Wal Gordon'; 'Allan Day'; 'Colleen Upton'; 'Lyndon Moffitt'; 'Registrar'; 'complaints@pgdb.co.nz'; 'paul@paulhenry.co.nz'; 'Kate Dixon'
Subject: FW: URGENT create matter/ack & apologise for the delay/import & flag red - E80343 Process for laying a complaint
Dear Ombudsman and Others,
Please see below an email stream of correspondence between myself and the Human Rights Commission, apparently the ball is back in the Ombudsman’s court. I am again formally requesting an appeal against the Ombudsman’s use of discretion to not investigate this travesty of justice and total abuse of power.
I am pleading to the Ombudsman, Ministers and Prime Minister to look into this massive cover up, all done at the risk to the NZ Public’s health and safety.
For an example of the type of “denial” I have dealt with, please see attached a recent reply from the Board’s Acting Registrar, made in reply to several very real complaints I made to the Board in early March, the very simple (and untrue) reply only just received yesterday, just over three months.
The other documents attached (for clarity) are those mentioned in these recent complaints of mine, for a full list of these complaints please see below in black.
This very uncomplicated letter of reply, which took 3 months to send, is confusing to say the least and is totally made up from blatant untruths. Not one of my complaints has ever been addressed…. but they have been ignored many times.
Any “investigation” relied on by the Board is totally dependant on the one very conflicted investigator Tony Hammond, who has been shown to have withheld evidence and photos and has huge conflicts of interest….. not only with John Darnley but also the chair of my so called hearing, Stephen Parker.
The Board’s ignoring of the legionnaires’ risk, mentioned in my complaints, is awful and borders on negligent.
The Board are claiming that these complaints were addressed during my investigation and the subsequent hearing, which is ludicrous and totally untrue because for most of these complaints, if not all of them, the Board were not made aware of these “issues” until after my hearing, when I pointed the issues out to them. It’s nothing short of delusional.
Mr Darnley and his involvement in this near fatal gas explosion has never been openly and transparently investigated, Darnley actually faced a charge for the explosion… but it disappeared before he went to his hearing. How does that happen?
The Board’s own involvement in the badly administered gas safety certificate system has never been investigated either. A system administered so badly that it later carried a disclaimer regarding its accuracy.
Certificates were also accepted by the Board incomplete, incomplete for testing for gas leaks. One of these (cert 345138) actually mentioned in my recent complaints….is for the site of an explosion, caused by a GAS LEAK. A gas leak caused by the leaking hose sold by Darnley’s company, sold after I left…..see receipt attached, even though there is a copy on the Board’s website….they deny having received a copy.
But it was I that was ruined and am struggling to make ends meet……The Ombudsman’s Office is here for Fairness……is this fair I ask you all??????
Are you happy for this type of unfair cover up? With no one held responsible for neither this mess of a certificate system nor the explosion. The facts are there for you to see, I can forward to anyone of you if you require copies of the considerable and undeniable evidence.
My recently dismissed complaints below……….there is a serious lack of integrity and credibility for anyone to ignore this.
I am laying a formal complaint against Mr Darnley’s involvement re- the explosion at the Milton Street Chipshop. I believe he might be responsible for this explosion and I am complaining about this so you can appoint an investigator to find out; please appoint an investigator that Darnley isn’t friends with or is a member of any groups that Darnley was/is a member of.
I would complain that Darnley didn’t register the pink master copy of cert 345138, while handing out the carbon copies to the customer and gas supplier.
I would also complain that all available copies lack a recording of a gas leak test, at a site that later exploded…..because of a gas leak, a gas leak on a hose supplied by Darnley’s company Allgas, weeks after I left Allgas. Please see attached receipt for this hose. Please note I left the year before in 2003.
I have reason to believe that it was Darnley who installed the fryers; please see the handwriting samples supplied to you just recently also attached.
I would also complain that after altering my initial install and changing the gas cylinder supply set up and changing the hose ( the hose mentioned above, the one that caused the explosion) that a further certificate wasn’t issued.
I hope you do not take your previous stand that my having faced charges for this debacle protects Darnley in someway from my complaint, you have said that you can’t revisit my case; please open a new case, one that is fair and transparent.
I would also take this chance, to yet, again lay a complaint about the legionnaire’s risk, installed by Mr Darnley. Please see attachment, this dwelling has central heating with radiators, an impossibility with out contaminating the hot water supply when heated with the califont on the cert. You have this blatant evidence, please act on it. It is very dangerous plumbing and this is your jurisdiction, no one else’s. Please note it is that time of year where the thermostatic heads on the radiators are opening and the 11 year old water is being atomised by the elderly mans shower (any plumber worth his salt would know this to be a ticking time bomb, a matter of when not if there will be an issue, it has the potential to kill.)
And I would also complain about the manipulation of the gas certificates at Powick Street, by my reckoning it is missing at least 2 certificates for work carried out, and as far as I know it still has the lpg cylinders on the deck, this was of such concern that the Board laid charges against myself. As I have proved that it was impossible for me to have done this, I would complain about the person who did. According to your correspondence you have made no other contact to the owner of Powick Street, other than the letter that said I was capable of acting illegally in Northland which was sent out before my hearing, my hearing showed this manipulation and the Board have done nothing. Just for the record I have never been to Northland.
Again, I hope you do not take the stand that my having faced charges for this protects the person responsible in someway and you can’t revisit my case, I am not asking you to revisit my case, please open a new case, one that is fair and transparent.
Also I would complain that even though someone nearly died because of bad, very bad gasfitting and shoddy practices, that no one has been held responsible for nearly killing Ron Clark.
I am appalled that even though Darnley didn’t sit an apprenticeship the Board saw fit to gift him (and others) his/their full craftsman/certifying status, I would complain about this flippant issuing of a licence that resulted in empowering a person not fit to practice, that at least once has ended in an explosion.
Also Kern Uren stated at my hearing that Mr Darnley had an extensive file, please by way of an OIA request can I get a copy of this extensive file and the basis for gifting Darnley his licence, please blank out all names as I do not want to invade anyone’s privacy. I am willing to cover the photocopying cost.
And my last complaint is that the Board have covered up a badly administered gas safety certificate and licence system that resulted in a near fatal explosion, I complain about this dereliction of duty.
I believe all the above are reasonable grounds for laying these complaints.
Regards Paul Gee
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Sam McLean [mailto:SamM@hrc.co.nz]
Sent: Thursday, 11 June 2015 3:48 p.m.
To: Paul & Emma
Subject: RE: URGENT create matter/ack & apologise for the delay/import & flag red - E80343 Process for laying a complaint
Dear Paul
Thank you for your last email.
Having read through the information you provided, I then discussed your situation with one of our legal advisers. He suggested that you could ask your MP to write to the Chief Ombudsman to address the review of the use of his discretion quickly, because of the length of time it has taken for you to get a response initially. He also suggested that you could ask the Minister responsible for the Plumbers, Gasfitters and Drainlayers Board , whom I believe is Dr Nick Smith, as the Minister for Building and Housing, to review the materials you have. You may have already gone down this road as I am aware you have had Dr Smith involved in the past.
It is difficult to see any unlawful ground of discrimination being the reason that this has all happened. Although you mention ethical belief and political opinion, there is nothing in the material to indicate that what happened was because of your ethical belief or political opinion as defined by the Human Rights Act 1993. You then suggested it was because of your national origins. However, the comment to you about whether you have ever thought of going back to the UK, although not an appropriate comment for Board member to make, is not enough to indicate discrimination. Besides, the Commission’s process of dispute resolution is mediation and that would not be suitable in these circumstances as these matters occurred many years ago.
You have already been through the court system, there have been investigations and your major concerns seem to relate to the impartiality of investigators and decision makers involved in the issue and it appears that you are claiming unfair processes and a lack of natural justice because of this. The Ombudsmen’s Office is the appropriate agency to address issues of this nature.
I understand that this response and our inability to assist you will be very disappointing as you deal with these difficult issues.
Kind regards
Sam McLean
Sam McLean | Mediator | Kaihohourongo
Human Rights Commission | Te Kāhui Tika Tangata
DDI: +64 9 375 8634 | T: +64 9 309 0874 | F: +64 9 377 3593
PO Box 6751, Wellesley St | Level 3, Zurich House, 21 Queen St, Auckland 1141
New Zealand | www.hrc.co.nz
This email (including all attachments) may contain personal information and is intended solely for the named addressee. It is confidential. Confidentiality is not waived or lost because this email has been sent to you in error. If you have received it in error, please let us know by reply email, delete it from your system and destroy any copies.
From: Paul & Emma [mailto:gspservices@xtra.co.nz]
Sent: Monday, 8 June 2015 7:04 a.m.
To: Sam McLean
Cc: 'Wal Gordon'
Subject: RE: URGENT create matter/ack & apologise for the delay/import & flag red - E80343 Process for laying a complaint
Hi Sam,
Please can you let me know when or if your office might help my family and I.
Frankly we are struggling financially and I need to clear my name, the stress of this is immense. Everyone in my area either thinks I am so incompetent that I blew up a chipshop or that I issue illegal certs or that I “dobbed in” the local gasfitters, they think this because the Board audited all the local gasfitters and told them it was because of me. They did this even though I had only ever complained about Darnley, and I only did this because I feared for the safety of the public, but they made it look like I had told on all the local gasfitters.
Even the kangaroo court that they put me through showed I had done no wrong, but they went in the local paper saying I was incompetent after I had blown 42 trumped up charges out of the water, and the last remaining charge out of 44 charges is wrongly based on one conflicted mans opinion, but it is my young family who are struggling, my wife has been terrorised by these bullies and she is beyond doubt totally innocent of any wrong doing. And for what?
My lawyer cost me well in excess of 10 grand and his final advice was to plead guilty to all this. I stopped using his services and fought this with the Plumbers Federation, my advocate Wal, copied in, proved I had done no wrong. But I lost everything and had my wife put through he mill, surely this effects my human rights?
I have tried every legal way to get this looked at.
I am at my wits end.
Please Sam.
Regards Paul Gee
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Sam McLean [mailto:SamM@hrc.co.nz]
Sent: Wednesday, 20 May 2015 12:35 p.m.
To: gspservices@xtra.co.nz
Subject: RE: URGENT create matter/ack & apologise for the delay/import & flag red - E80343 Process for laying a complaint
Hello Paul
It would be useful to have a conversation with you about the information you have provided to the Commission and what options are open to you for dealing with your situation.
I suggest you call me on 0800 496 877 and ask to speak to me or the other option is you email me a phone number and a suitable time that I can call you. It would have to be between 8.30am and 5pm.
I look forward to hearing from you.
Sam McLean
Sam McLean | Mediator | Kaihohourongo
Human Rights Commission | Te Kahui Tika Tangata
DDI: +64 9 375 8634 | T: +64 9 309 0874 | F: +64 9 377 3593
PO Box 6751, Wellesley St | Level 3, Zurich House, 21 Queen St, Auckland 1141
New Zealand | www.hrc.co.nz
This email (including all attachments) may contain personal information and is intended solely for the named addressee. It is confidential. Confidentiality is not waived or lost because this email has been sent to you in error. If you have received it in error, please let us know by reply email, delete it from your system and destroy any copies.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Paul & Emma
Sent: Friday, 24 Apr 2015 07:22 a.m.
To: Infoline
Subject: URGENT create matter/ack & apologise for the delay/import & flag red - E80343 Process for laying a complaint
Hi,
Please can you tell me the proper process for laying a complaint with your commission? I have attached a submission that I made to a select committee for some back ground.
I have been victimised for trying to protect the NZ public from an unscrupulous unqualified tradesman, when my concerns came to pass they tried to make me the scapegoat.
Thank you.
Yours Sincerely Paul Gee
-
It is a joke........this is how fair the system is.....
-
.....you will notice that one complaint that I made is missing from the delusional reply from Craig O'Connall, the acting Registrar....
Also I would complain that even though someone nearly died because of bad, very bad gasfitting and shoddy practices, that no one has been held responsible for nearly killing Ron Clark.
By "Acting" Registrar does he mean it in the same context as my medical qualification to be a GP when I was playing Doctors and Nurses when I was eight? Or perhaps the Knights of Nee in the Meaning of life?
I can just see him clip clopping around his office with two coconut halves pretending he is on a horse, followed by a scribe making up songs about him.
Must be nice to get paid so much to play act.....because he got to be pretending with such a bullshit letter as this it is total crap.
-
Sent this morning......
Mr O’Connell,
You have left out several points of my complaints from your reply, why is that? If you use the numbers on my points, it may help, not replacing them with letters in your reply.
One of the missing points is point 10, for example….
Also I would complain that even though someone nearly died because of bad, very bad gasfitting and shoddy practices, that no one has been held responsible for nearly killing Ron Clark.
Please can you review this reply because not only is it incomplete, but mostly untrue.
Regards Paul Gee
-
......and a quick reply this time but still just as delusional......isn't any one embarrassed by this, a guy nearly got killed and no one was held responsible, it was covered up, the one that most if not all the evidence points at faced a charge but it "disappeared".....but because they couldn't get the guy they targeted......its been addressed?
So how does that cost of a licence and the CPD taste now?
-
You have all seen the blatant irrefutable evidence how can they issue such untruths, officially and on a signed letter....it makes a mockery of our trade.
Where's OUR justice, where's OUR protection, where's OUR right to a fair go? After all we finance this gravy train.....
-
Lets see if they actually did address these complaints.....have a look who knows about this too
Sent: Friday, 19 June 2015 7:23 a.m.
To: 'Registrar'
Cc: 'Info'; 'Sam McLean'; 'Nick 4 Nelson'; 'Nicola White'; 'Janis Adair'; 'Jude Hutton'; 'Andrew Little'; 'Andrew.McCaw@ombudsmen.parliament.nz'; 'damien.oconnor@parliament.govt.nz'; 'john.key@national.org.nz'; 'Judith Burney'; 'Rt. Hon. Winston Peters'; Craig Hooper - Coolhead Productions Ltd; 'phil.twyford@parliament.govt.nz'; 'Registrar'; 'paul@paulhenry.co.nz'; 'Office of Sarah Dowie MP'; 'wal.gordon@pgdf.co.nz'; 'Allan Day'; 'Colleen Upton'; 'Lyndon Moffitt'
Subject:
Mr O’Connell
Please by means of an OIA request please can you show me where and how my complaints were addressed? The complaints mentioned in the correspondence below, they are very real I have a lot of evidence if you require it and up until now the Board have attempted to cover this up, this is so very wrong and in the face of why you are there.
Or am I to be denied the right of complaint aswell as the right to a fair and unbiased hearing?
Thank you.
Regards Paul Gee.
-
So lets "address" each of my complaints.....perhaps the Board might have done something more than I know, but here is what I know.....we will see if this differs when the Board either tell me or fob me off, if they fob me off, ask yourself how can a Government endorsed Board tell such porky pies? If it is fibs then the people involved should stand down.......
I would complain that Darnley didn’t register the pink master copy of cert 345138, while handing out the carbon copies to the customer and gas supplier.
The Board knew of this "non-registering" just days after the explosion, think it was about 9 days. So while Ron Clark was recovering in an intensive care burns unit, they knew of this, all copies show a lack of gas leak test results.....at the site of an explosion (think about that)......this same cert number is mentioned in the Dept of Labour complaint, by number, ( just mull that over and think about that).......
The Board claim that they never received a copy of this cert......but the cert is there on line, on the "fox-pro" cert system (implemented at a cost of $600 000, paid for by us)....check it out check the cert number on line......the same address, the same details, the same appliances, the same missing gas leak test result ......... hmmm just mull that over.....
-
If this is all that has been done to address this complaint......then do you consider that the Board have addressed my complaint?
It appears on the face of it that they have covered it up........if this is the case then why are these people still there?
Why Does Craig O'Connell think that it has been addressed?
-
I am laying a formal complaint against Mr Darnley’s involvement re- the explosion at the Milton Street Chipshop. I believe he might be responsible for this explosion and I am complaining about this so you can appoint an investigator to find out; please appoint an investigator that Darnley isn’t friends with or is a member of any groups that Darnley was/is a member of.
All I know that was done to address this is that Mr Darnley faced a charge but it disappeared before his hearing......how does that happen? Now have a look at the complaint below......hmmmm.... ironic eh?
-
I would also complain that all available copies lack a recording of a gas leak test, at a site that later exploded…..because of a gas leak, a gas leak on a hose supplied by Darnley’s company Allgas, weeks after I left Allgas. Please see attached receipt for this hose. Please note I left the year before in 2003.
Now the hose that caused the explosion was sold, by Darnley's company, many weeks after I left his employ.....now consider that only Darnley (other than me) who faced a charge (but this charge disappeared before his hearing, how?), this is the exact same hose that actually caused the explosion. It was used to replace the first hose, replaced just months after the initial install, definitely not by me. The original hose was in such a bad shape/position because someone, not me, lowered the pipe after the initial install......what sort of dickhead replaces a hose in the exact same way that caused its failure after such a short time in service? Photos that proved this lowering occurred were withheld by the Boards investigator (Tony Hammond).....the Tony Hammond who gave Darnley his licence after a chat......
But the Board think they have addressed this, it will be interesting if they have done anything other than trying to pin it on me......the cert for this work was not, as is attested to by the Board's own records, wasn't registered and was empty of any record of a gas leak test AND no cert for the replacing of the failed gas hose....the same hose that actually caused the explosion........think on that.....
BUT THERE IS A COPY ON THEIR WEBSITE OF THIS CERT.......it carries a disclaimer on accuracy ...... as does ALL the certs on the "fox-pro" system....
That CPD stuck in your throat yet? We are the ones incompetent until we prove otherwise? Think on that......
-
I have reason to believe that it was Darnley who installed the fryers; please see the handwriting samples supplied to you just recently also attached.
I have provided hand-writing experts who believe that the words "fryer" as well as other words on the job card for the explosion....match the hand-writing on a signed sample of writing attributable to Mr Darnley, when the investigator "asked" Darnley about the handwriting on the job card Darnley didn't "recognise" his own handwriting......now the Board has considerably convincing evidence that Darnley may have lied to the investigator about who added the fryers details to the job card....and in all probability fitted the fryers, lowered the pipe......the lowered pipe that caused the explosion by stressing the hose.....the hose that was sold weeks after I left Darnley's employ.......left because of concerns about dangerous work.
I complained to the Board for the next six years before the explosion about dodgy work covered by dodgy certs.....
If anyone can think of a dodgyier situation concerning dodgy certs and dodgy work please let me know......the cert wasn't registered(bullshit) and lacked test results and ended in an explosion.....that pretty dodgy?
But they think they have addressed it........replace addressed with "covered up" and I might buy it.......think about this state of affairs.......
-
I would also complain that after altering my initial install and changing the gas cylinder supply set up and changing the hose ( the hose mentioned above, the one that caused the explosion) that a further certificate wasn’t issued.
Apparently, even though the investigator appeared in a Board newsletter "info brief" just the month before the explosion.....about how alterations to any install requires a cert.....AND he withheld the photos proving what I had maintained about some one had altered my original work, something I had said right at the beginning.....before they had Darnley's charge disappear before his hearing........
As far as I know no cert was issued or registered for that matter re- any alterations....but the Board faced with this irrefutable evidence.....believe that they have addressed this complaint...........those male bovines have the runs apparently.....
-
I would also take this chance, to yet, again lay a complaint about the legionnaire’s risk, installed by Mr Darnley. Please see attachment, this dwelling has central heating with radiators, an impossibility with out contaminating the hot water supply when heated with the califont on the cert. You have this blatant evidence, please act on it. It is very dangerous plumbing and this is your jurisdiction, no one else’s. Please note it is that time of year where the thermostatic heads on the radiators are opening and the 11 year old water is being atomised by the elderly mans shower (any plumber worth his salt would know this to be a ticking time bomb, a matter of when not if there will be an issue, it has the potential to kill.)
Now in this complaint.... the only "action" that the Board have taken that I know of, is they have twice told the local council.....the same people who have signed off a building compliance cert......
So.....
For this complaint... the Board have a signed cert, a complaint from me, a diagram of how bad it is... it concerns some god awful plumbing.......but they act like it isn't their jurisdiction.....oh and its signed off in Darnley's name.......the guy who faced a charge but it disappeared for an explosion, remember the same guy who got gifted his licence by the investigator and didn't register a cert at the site of an explosion (even though there is a copy on the Board's electronic register), with all copies missing the GAS LEAK TEST RESULTS ......in an explosion caused by the altering of the pipework that supplied the hose that caused the explosion, with no further cert issued for this work.....even thought he investigator appeared in the "info brief" saying alterations should be certed......deep breath.......what is the meaning of corruption, how corrupt do you have to be, before it is called corrupt?
-
The amazing thing is if it is one of us......it must be dealt with....for the integrity of the trade.....
So what happens when one of them are found wanting??
-
Now this complaint doesn't involve Darnley, it involves someone totally different, but it does go toward showing that the Board were targeting me, I am the only common thread between all this......take me out of it.....they don't give a winged feck about it, even though I believe it is a fraud.....they think they have addressed it. The only thing that I know of that they have done is send out a letter, before my hearing, that said I was capable of acting illegally in Northland, I have never even been to Northland. They didn't even find out about this until my hearing and have done nothing since to fix this dangerous work......
And I would also complain about the manipulation of the gas certificates at Powick Street, by my reckoning it is missing at least 2 certificates for work carried out, and as far as I know it still has the lpg cylinders on the deck, this was of such concern that the Board laid charges against myself. As I have proved that it was impossible for me to have done this, I would complain about the person who did. According to your correspondence you have made no other contact to the owner of Powick Street, other than the letter that said I was capable of acting illegally in Northland which was sent out before my hearing, my hearing showed this manipulation and the Board have done nothing. Just for the record I have never been to Northland.
this is copied an pasted from my other submission to MPs.......
1. This is one of the charges that concern me the most, other than the site of the explosion, not because of the persecution of my self.....but the total inaction after the hearing. (and yet another set of charges amended to better fit just before hearing)
2. I was charged with placing cylinders on a deck, as I was the last person there, which I was not.
3. This charge is quite complex, but can be boiled down to just one set of facts and invoices. Ignoring the reasoning offered by the investigator as it is nonsensical because the unit wasn't even manufactured when he says it was installed (as evidenced by the serial number on the side of the unit) and the original cert, not issued by myself.
4. The set of facts are born out by invoicing from the local Caltex who sold all the water heaters involved.(G1) 3 units, with only 2 being accounted for in the certs.
5. This invoicing shows that, initially, a 24 ltr model was sold and fitted on the 26/7/2001 as collaborated by the cert 207367 issued at that time (not by me) and this Caltex invoicing (G1 & 2)
6. But then 9/10/2001, some two months later, the 24ltr was returned and a 32 ltr sold, replacing the unit insitu, but with no other cert issued for this new 32 ltr unit.(G2)
7. Then further 24ltr unit sold 14/1/05, 6 months after my visit mentioned below, which corresponds to the serial number on the unit on site, but makes the first original cert for a 24ltr unit redundant, I believe this was when the gas cylinders were placed on the deck. (G1)
8. Now bear in mind that I was brought in only to relocate the 32ltr unit and not move any cylinders, on the 20/7/04 (6 months before the second unit was sold, mentioned in point 7 above), as is backed by my invoice, job sheet and cert 319000, marked as alteration only.(G3 & 4)
9. My concern is that, as with the explosion at Milton Street and the adding of a cooker at Greenwood St, no one has thought to pursue this potential fraud and find anyone accountable for this substandard work and manipulation of certs.
-
Also I would complain that even though someone nearly died because of bad, very bad gasfitting and shoddy practices, that no one has been held responsible for nearly killing Ron Clark.
Now this one I find totally offensive and appalling......the Board seem to think that addressing this issue, is to try to frame me, and have Darnley's charge disappear before trial, ignoring evidence and photos and conflicts of interest.....with no one to this day held responsible for nearly killing a man, ruining his business in the process and having a huge detrimental effect of at least tow families, mine and Ron's.........
Fancy some CPD on ethics Craig O'Connell or perhaps some CPD on "getting results at work"......funny thing is... if I call him a corrupt, four eyed useless cunt then I am the one not acting professionally......so I won't do that then....
A guy laid in intensive care burns unit .......the Board covered it up at the same time and since.......
I don't believe these people have earned the right to pontificate to the tradesman of this country about safety, training, integrity and definitely not about competency, or even competency.....sorry did I say competency twice......CPD......Cunts Pretending Decency....
-
Here is how the charges that the Board trumped up against me, 44 charges changed at the last minute.....each address had several lesser and greater charges, so if one failed then they could use the next set.....
Paul Gee PGDB Disciplinary Hearing
Summary of Charges
They doubled up the charges at each address to make all up 44 charges, these were laid and I answered 42 charges. Being found 95% innocent of any wrong doing is a very good result, but if this other 5% of charges were “up-held” (and were aided to be up-held by the investigators mate chairing the hearing, who then stopped the hearing just as we were questioning the investigator specifically about this very 5% of the charges). And it was all done as a last grasp at keeping a 100% conviction rate (openly boasted about), and done to save face and justify a $220 000.00 price tag, with still no one held accountable for a near fatal explosion….. Well it is reprehensible and a true reflection of the arrogance and the lows these people will stoop to protect their ego's, positions, salaries and reputations.
Please before you read this summary of charges below, please read and bear in mind these points and then the 3 documents listed below and attached.
• Nearly 50% of the charges were amended at the last minute, application for amendments made on 1/2/11, the hearing on the 3/5/11, after over 2 years of investigation.
• Evidence, photos and notes were withheld and misrepresented.
• Huge conflicts of interest ignored and witnesses added just days out from hearing.
• Mr Bickers, the soon to be Board Chair (now left) was on the panel for my hearing and he witnessed what I am about to tell you about in these charges first hand. Of note Mr Bickers runs a course called the “Role of the Processional Witness”, specifically about a hearings procedure and its goal of achieving a proper and fair outcome.
Doc 1. Mr Bickers further sullying of my reputation in my local news paper, just days after the hearing. See attachment B1, (B1).
Doc 2. The so called “apology” from the Board, signed by Mr Bickers. This letter referred to in the apology, in my opinion, prejudiced all additional sites prior to my hearing, all sites other than the site of the explosion, with a very “un”- truth, implying that I was capable of acting in an unlawful manner. It was sent to areas spanning my whole business history, with the Mot high school, right in the middle, which I believe was no mistake.(B2).
Doc 3. All or at the very least 3 years of my work was audited, this is evidenced by the time gap in the investigation and also a letter from a Board lawyer and a comment on an MPs letter, but the investigator states only 10 % was audited. (B3 & 4)
See below for the Charges and how they were dis-proven. I ask you will this “justice” help our country, industry or protect the public. I kept my licenses, but lost my reputation, home and business, and now nearly 50% of licences are being uplifted for this year, almost half tradesman not bothering.
Please note, it is not an exhaustive list of proof and concerns, and I have tried to be brief.........
Milton Street chipshop.
1. This is the site of the explosion that started this whole affair. I proved that the initial install of pipe work had in all probability been altered along its entire length from how I had originally installed it. I installed a “pre-pipe” under instruction from my then boss John Darnley. All evidence for the person responsible for these alterations I believe pointing to Darnley or someone under his direction, but he was never asked about it.
2. The bayonets were lowered, as evidenced by the withheld photos showing screw holes of previous position and the pipe falling from the corner of the room to the position of the Bayonets which is contrary to all the other “audit” photos of my work. These withheld photos were taken by the forensic expert, these photos only became apparent to me at the hearing, but were available to the investigator very early on and reaffirmed what I had maintained for two years. Over 120 photos were taken with only about 11 made available.
3. I had completed my involvement with the installation on the 15th, as evidenced by the date of the leak test date (of note the 15 of this test date being in a different colour ink to the rest of the cert, and not in my hand), but the offending fryers were delivered on 24th . (B5 & 6)
4. There was a pizza oven installed half way along, one year later. The cert for the pizza oven being the one that wasn't registered by Darnley, as per the Board. This “pizza” cert lacked any information entered into the gas leak test field on all available copies (all copies available are totally in Darnley’s name). The Board were aware of this “non” registration, just 9 days after the explosion. Of note there appears a copy of this cert on the PG&DB electronic register, a total impossibility if not registered. (B7 & 8)
5. Three hoses were sold for two fryers, the offending hose had split so near to completion of the job that it was part of the original invoicing. But when the owner told the investigator, he told him it didn't interest him, Mr Clark told me this. (B9)
6. The cylinder station/bottle bank had been altered to feed off both gas cylinders simultaneously, in all probability to accommodate the added extra load of the pizza oven. This is evidenced by the fittings sold and invoiced for in the initial billing and the different fittings present in the photo's taken just after the explosion.(B10 & 11)
7. Not one part of my initial install went unaltered, from the start at the cylinder station, the middle where the pizza oven was installed, to the end where the bayonets were lowered (not by me) with the fryers added (not by me) after my initial “pre pipe” job.
8. It appears to me that the bayonets were lowered to allow the fryers to sit further back to the wall, as the fryers have a cavity underneath, and this lowering and turning of the fitting was why the hoses failed after pinching against the floor. And probably would have been done when the fryers were installed, not by me. My involvement is also evidenced by the job card, showing no fryers, and with the words “install bayonets and test”, in my hand. (B12). The entry for the fryers on the front of this Job card, not in my hand, but same as the hand writing on the certificate . All this known to the investigator very early on when I told him in my voluntary interviews, in all probability when he had the withheld photos.
9. The comment that the sheath had been cut away from the hoses, again not by me.(B13)
10. Still to this day one has been held accountable for this explosion, with all, if not most, of this referenced evidence available to the investigator. (B14)
Main Rd, Havelock
1. Even though the investigator had said to me at interview that the site had been unaltered since my initial install of a fryer in 15th Jul 03,(the appliance at the focus of the charge), there were a further two certs issued for this site. Both these certs 629404 and 623527 were for work in the kitchen, with one dated 4th Sept and 29th Jan both in 09.
2. The audit being done on 3rd Sept 09 (C1). The cert date for 629404 was the day after the audit. The work signed off in this cert 629404 for 4th Sept is considerable and would not be done in a day and would involve moving all my work.
3. Of note the hand writing of the word “fryer” on this Allgas job sheet is identical to the word “fryer” on the Milton Allgas Job sheet and the appliance is drawn in, which isn’t drawn in the Milton St job sheet. Of note this would probably have been written by an office worker who passed out the work, but no one from the office was interviewed. (C 2, 3 &4)
4. The work in these certs, in all probability, would have involved moving my original install, but I was unable to check because all work had been removed when I had the gone there to check after I had the charges laid.
5. All this information of certified work would have been available to the investigator if he had done a cert check on the address, which I think he should have before making any comments about it being unchanged or pressing any charges. In all probability the work was either still in progress or very recently completed.
Greenwood St Motueka
1. I had installed the water heater and gas cylinder station, but the cooker was installed at a later date and added to the certificate, not by me. But in saying this, the kitchen wasn't there when the cooker was installed and the customer stated his friend had removed the restraining chain on the cooker (the basis for the original charges), when this was pointed out to the inspector he requested and was granted for the charges to be amended to focus on the pipe in the wall and not the clearances to the worktop and the absence of a restraining chain. (D1)
2. Then at the hearing the owner said on testifying, he remembered someone else coming back to fit the cooker. (D2)
3. The blue carbon copy shows a differing of pressure on the carbon sheet for the line written for the cooker and when taken into account the other certs with writing present on the pink master copy, but absent on the carbon copies and other alteration (all available to the Board prior and dismissed as vexatious by Kern Uren (D 3 & 4, also see H.B. 9), I believe the cooker was added after my initial install to both the site and the certificate.
4. Someone else at Allgas had no problem acting in my name, as evidenced in the letter issued in my name to alter a cert, 3 months after I had left (H.B.5), ironically this letter has “never seen this or authorised it”, written across the top of it in my hand writing, done when I became aware of it.
5. Basically if I was found not guilty of installing the cooker, who did? The Board did not pursue this either.
6. I was told, by Darnley, from day one to fill out a job sheet, the office staff would then take the info from the job sheet to fill out the certs, for me to then sign.
7. I was told by Darnley that they would file the copies and register with the Board. It was the biggest mistake of my career, if not my life. I trusted them to do what they had said. When I handed back the certs signed and with all 4 copies still together, the 3 carbon copies still attached to the master copy, with no handwriting of my own, only my signature, I had made the gravest judgment and regret it to this day. I believed the company would do as they said. From my time of leaving Darnley’s employment, I spent the next 6 years trying to warn about dodgy certs covering dodgy work, up until the explosion nearly killed someone.
8. I know of another contractor who had a similar experience, when he notified the Board, HE was audited!!!,
8 Ball Unit Motueka High School
1. Another set of charges amended just prior to the hearing. (D1) Amended to better fit after I had told the investigator that I did not know the cage was to be fitted, the cage that was fitted not allowing enough ventilation, which was the basis for these charges.
2. When the charge was amended to “I should have known it was to be fitted” because of the exposure to cars, I showed an aerial photograph that proved the car park had been altered considerably since the original install, which led to the witness, brought in just days out from the hearing, to exclaim that had she seen this aerial photo she would never had signed the statement. (E1).
3. This photo graph was obtained by me from the Tasman District Council and proved beyond doubt what I had told the investigator.
4. Of note the witness statement was prepared by the investigators lawyer after he had in his own words, briefed the witness, also of note is some of the other witnesses refused to sign their “own” statements.
Dommett St Westport
1. The letter from the owner reflects the attitude of the investigator, and is quite damning about the investigators behaviour. (F1)
2. But regardless of the window being secured, I still believe it to have been safe even with the window being open; the charges were for the clearance to the opening window to the flue of the water heater. (F 2, 3 &4)
Powick St Westport
1. This is one of the charges that concern me the most, other than the site of the explosion, not because of the persecution of my self.....but the total inaction after the hearing. (and yet another set of charges amended to better fit just before hearing)
2. I was charged with placing cylinders on a deck, as I was the last person there, which I was not.
3. This charge is quite complex, but can be boiled down to just one set of facts and invoices. Ignoring the reasoning offered by the investigator as it is nonsensical because the unit wasn't even manufactured when he says it was installed (as evidenced by the serial number on the side of the unit) and the original cert, not issued by myself.
4. The set of facts are born out by invoicing from the local Caltex who sold all the water heaters involved.(G1) 3 units, with only 2 being accounted for in the certs.
5. This invoicing shows that, initially, a 24 ltr model was sold and fitted on the 26/7/2001 as collaborated by the cert 207367 issued at that time (not by me) and this Caltex invoicing (G1 & 2)
6. But then 9/10/2001, some two months later, the 24ltr was returned and a 32 ltr sold, replacing the unit insitu, but with no other cert issued for this new 32 ltr unit.(G2)
7. Then further 24ltr unit sold 14/1/05, 6 months after my visit mentioned below, which corresponds to the serial number on the unit on site, but makes the first original cert for a 24ltr unit redundant, I believe this was when the gas cylinders were placed on the deck. (G1)
8. Now bear in mind that I was brought in only to relocate the 32ltr unit and not move any cylinders, on the 20/7/04 (6 months before the second unit was sold, mentioned in point 7 above), as is backed by my invoice, job sheet and cert 319000, marked as alteration only.(G3 & 4)
9. My concern is that, as with the explosion at Milton Street and the adding of a cooker at Greenwood St, no one has thought to pursue this potential fraud and find anyone accountable for this substandard work and manipulation of certs.
Malvern Ave, Nelson
1. This is the one and only site where charges were found to be substantiated; of note it is also the only site to where I freely admitted to all work and certification. The charges were for clearance to an opening window from a power flued water heater.
2. I believe this was the charge that they held on to just to keep their 100% conviction rate boasting rights and their attempt of justifying a $220 000.00 prosecution cost.
3. I drew a diagram of how I knew the fumes to act, blown away from the building some 3 metres before rising (H 1)
4. Please see also available at the hearing –
• My 2 x diagrams from the Hearing (H 1).
• Photo of the “offending” heater (H 2)
• Rinnai Doc (H3)
• Statement of owner, saying no fumes entering the building (H4)
• Hammonds comment if the fumes were not entering it was safe(H5)
• Contradictory nature of table 16, with amendments. (H6)
• Numerous statements from NZ 5261, stating the use of overseas regs and the non mandatory and mandatory sections.(H7)
Of Note this is the charge that the Chair (Mr Hammond’s long time colleague) stepped in and called the hearing to a close, it is the one last remaining charge and the sole reason for further sullying my name and still to this day with the Board’s website inferring that it is me that is incompetent.
And since the hearing….. None of which was allowed to be adduced at high court (although the Investigator applied and was allowed to adduce a document giving weight to the Board’s “expertise”), I was restricted by Board policy, but this below further proves it was safe-
• British Standard, known to me but not mentioned at my hearing (H8)
• Hardy’s British history, being the only certifying gasfitter at my hearing and on the panel for the Board at my hearing (H9)
• Email from co-author of NZ 5261 (H10)
• Emails of explanation of other gasfitters. (H11)
• Email from the owner, after my hearing. (H12)
1. If it is safe, it is safe and I still, to this day, believe this job was safe, I offered far more proof of this safe operation at the hearing, the only evidence offered by the investigator was the amended table 16 from NZ5261, which is contradictory in application, re- spa blowers and amendments.
2. NZ5261 was co-authored by the investigator, and he would in all probability, not want it to fail.
3. If this charge had not been held to have substance then I would have been 100% innocent. I think it wrong that you are guilty until proven innocent.
As well as the 3 points I asked you to read above before reading the charges, points 3.1 to 3.3 under heading “Summary of Charges”, please also bear in mind-
• I did an “assessment” and not the, proscribed by the Board, “course of instruction” as my punishment and I was found to be in the top 10% ever assessed by the Board appointed assessor. Out of principle I did this with no preparation, revision or study.
• I had also for 6 years before the explosion warned about dodgy work being covered by dodgy certs.....warning against none other than Darnley, the man who was empowered by the “impartial” investigator, Tony Hammond, after just one oral exam.
• It was Hammond who was appointed impartial investigator to attend a hearing overseen by his very well known colleague Stephen Parker Executive Director of GANZ, who he presented seminars with under the GANZ banner, as a technical adviser to GANZ and nominated by GANZ to co-author NZ5261 and organising the Kennedy Trust together with Parker.
• Hammond AND Parker being appointed AFTER my protests to Hammond’s impartiality at a stay of proceedings hearing. The old excuse, that a small plumbing community is bound to have people who know each other…..which is an insult to capabilities of the other 4 million kiwis.
• I have been told that Darnley was a member of numerous gas industry groups, as is Hammond and Parker. Darnley, Parker and Hammond are members of NZIGE, Darnley “resigning” just weeks after the explosion.
• Hammond having a very long history in NZIGE, which is an arm of IPENZ, and he also previously served on the PG&D Board for 15 years.
• Mr Bickers has a long history in IPENZ. These long histories of both men are similar in length of time and the standing/position achieved in their respective Institute in that time as members.
The worst part about this, apart from the very destructive and stressful effects on my family, it emboldens those with “contacts” to thumb their nose at the safety and responsibility entrusted them. This will not help the industry or protect the public going forward.
-
I will keep you posted about how the Board reply to my Official Information Act request on how they have addressed my complaints......remember you can't complain about the disciplinary process and you are guilty until you prove your innocence......I believe I did prove my innocence.....but that isn't enough either.....
Good luck guys trying to protect yourselves on an install you did years ago with no photo taken of how you left it......lots of luck with that one....
Like I said will let you know the reply to my OIA request......the OIA was brought in to prevent corruption......remember that too......bear that in mind if they fob me off........
-
I have had one reply..... Mr Key knows about this cover up.......mine are not views if I have irrefutable proof, it is fact......
Should get a reply to my OIA request to show me where my complaints were addressed, I am pretty sure they have definitely not been, by the 17th of July, but its a Friday so I will wait until the 20th before registering my complaint to the Ombudsman.
Dear Mr Gee
I am writing on behalf of the Prime Minister and Minister of Tourism, Rt Hon John Key, to acknowledge your email of 11 June 2015 concerning the issues you are having to get the person responsible for the gas explosion at the Milton Street Chip shop held accountable.
Thank you for taking the time to write to the Prime Minister and share your views.
Yours sincerely
You have to ask in these times of tradesman shortages and housing crisis how important this is to the government.....I would have thought it would be very important.....that all these houses that are being rushed through are being done properly and we aren't going to be suffering in the future?
But it seems like it doesn't matter because its "User Pays....and the tradie takes all the responsibility".....hands free governing, just taking the tax....sad....I just hope the user only pays with money and not health or any family....
I have seen the worst of it.....it needs fixing with those responsible held to account so that those that follow are aware and sure that if they doing anything dodgy then they will be taken to account.....other wise it is just bullshit....
-
And my reply.....
Thank you Ann,
Please can you pass on my thanks for taking the time to reply to me, I assure you if it was not a dire situation I would not bother the Prime Minister with anything trivial, I have literally tried every where else, I apologise for taking up any of his time, but I am trying to fix this not just for myself but for the NZ public.
Please can you let me know if anything is to be done? I have a wealth of evidence and can prove that the Board have -
· Covered up a shocking administering of the gas certificate system that was entrusted to them.
· Covered up an explosion where a man nearly died, charging who I think caused the explosion, but then having this charge disappear before his hearing. With no one to date held responsible, but they tried to frame me for this.
· Covered up a manipulation of the cert system that I believe may be fraud, ignoring dangerous work.
· Ignored other dangerous work, that could kill if left un changed, one of them a huge legionnaires’ disease risk
· The explosion they framed me for, was a situation that I had tried for 6 years to avoid before the explosion.
There is much much more to this, this list is far from exhaustive.
I have to point out, with all due respect, that these are not views if they are backed by irrefutable proof. I have copied in my fellow members of the Plumbers Federation. I am pleading for someone to please look at this.
I ask you what would happen if someone gets hurt or killed?
I am happy to discuss this and provide the proof I speak of. I have posted a lot, not all, of the evidence on line on this forum, link below-
http://www.plumbers.co.nz/forum/?topic=1810.new#new
Yours Sincerely Paul Gee
-
I just watched John Banks the MP on the Paul Henry breakfast show.....
.....he's livid because he was persecuted with evidence hidden in order to convict him.....he has the money to fight it.......he gets it over turned and can claim for expenses to keep his reputation intact......this was over whether or not he knew he was given a large sum of money to fund his political aspirations......(lots of money floating around here).....
.....I tried to warn about a public safety situation for 6 years, then when it happened and someone nearly died in an explosion, I too was persecuted with evidence withheld.......
Spot the difference.......$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Still feel you live in a fair and just system.....One guy can argue about whether he was given tens of thousands of dollars knowingly.......another tries to warn about a dire safety system entrusted with keeping the NZ public safe... then I get framed for it........
Which one will get justice?
Oh wait there I am just a mere plumber who crawls though shit......
-
The thing is...... you've seen how much evidence I have posted, I know the Board have seen it and MPs and lots of others.....
Here is the stinger...... all these people have such little regard for us that they aren't even bothered that you have seen this blatant evidence....
You got to ask......
Wouldn't an organisation be beside itself, trying every way to answer the very uncomfortable questions this blatant evidence raises, to explain it and/or deny it.....
ESPECIALLY....if this irrefutable evidence came out and was widely read by the very industry it represents.....I think it would and should if......IF they had any regard or respect for us or the industry.....
But I don't believe they have a scrap of any for us, you'll do as your told and be happy with it......
-
Just a thought the Board totally based their whole case for my last charge out of 44…..on Hammond’s “opinion”…..a chemical engineer with no gas fitting experience, who was gifted his ticket and had massive conflicts of interest……we seen the photos of how the fumes actually behave and the part he “enforced” was non mandatory!
Where’s that dealing with unreasonable people policy again…..
Not forgetting they have ignored a huge legionnaires risk and covered up for a badly run certificate system that resulted in an explosion....
Not to mention ignoring a fraud and manipulation of the same badly run cert system......
I can't believe I can publically make such a comment and not receive a letter from the most trigger happy of industry boards.....think on that...
-
I found this on a Dept of justice web site.....you seen the evidence below.....
What are warnings signs of corruption?
Some of the warning signs that your business has been exposed to corrupt activity include:
abnormally high profit margins
business arrangements that serve no apparent commercial purpose
reimbursement requests for undefined costs relating to goods or services
unusually high and unjustified commission payments
apparent ‘special’ treatment.
Talk about 100% on the score card......
-
Minister booted out of parliament
Building and Housing minister Nick Smith has been ordered out of parliament after a spat with Assistant Speaker Trevor Mallard.
Dr Smith was taking a bill through its committee stage on Tuesday when he made a remark which wasn't picked up by the microphones.
But Mr Mallard, who was sitting next to him, heard it and ordered Dr Smith to apologise.
The minister apologised, but despite that was ordered to leave.
On his way out he said something else that upset Mr Mallard, who sent National's whips out to find him and bring him back.
When he returned, Mr Mallard ordered him to apologise for a comment he had made "indicating bias on behalf of the chair" as he left the debating chamber.
Dr Smith apologised - and was again ordered out.
So have a read of my posts and compare, Nick Smith has a problem with a "biased chair" apparently.......here some bias for you Nick.....my chair was good friends with the investigator.....who stopped my hearing just as I was to go 100% innocent....
Same investigator who spent 7 times as much money over 200 k chasing me than my old boss....about 30k.......but then the investigator did award my old boss his full certifying license after a chat and the cert system that the investigator lobbied for was found wanting and inaccurate...
All this resulting in an explosion......
-
.......perhaps someone could show Mr Mallard this thread and ask Mr Mallard if the chair that Mr Smith has complained about is as conflicted and biased as the chair that stole my life off me.....and has since been ignored by Nick Smith.......apparently we have different levels of "bias"......
-
I'm new to this topic, but have your thought about going to the media. Its a shame that Campbell live has finished, but what about TV3 STORY
-
I have tried lots of places, media and papers and everything I can think of....pretty sure I tried all of them.....what would work is if the programme was contacted by lots of us, perhaps they might listen then?
Its got it all, an explosion, a cover up, conflicts of interest and all done at a risk to the NZ public.......it needs publicity, I am more than happy to front up to anything to push this into the light. Nearly 11 and a half thousand views....
Thanks Bugman for the feed back and ideas.
-
Just copy the link to this stream and send it into the TV 3 , the more the merrier.....perhaps if I do something crazy then they might be interested?
-
http://www.plumbers.co.nz/forum/fellow-practitioners-update/41/fellow-practitioner-issue-236-dated-12-december-2014/1810/msg9912#msg9912
There's the link send it in guys, it would be great if they received a heap of emails asking how the Board could do this to someone, steal their life and let someone guilty go free.
-
Today at 5:45 PM
Thank you for contacting Story. We will be in touch shortly.
See what happens
-
Please take the time to read this whole thread, it is story about how I tried to warn about dodgy gasfitting work covered by a dodgy certs and a dodgy cert system, I tried to warn for 6 years.....then an explosion nearly killed someone.....the Board framed me and hid evidence and changed 50% of the charges to better fit....I still blew 42 charges out of the water, the last charge is bullshit.....
I later found out that the man I was warning about (my old boss) was gifted his full certifying gas license it was gifted to him by the same person who was later appointed to investigate my old boss....all members of the same gas industry groups.....
I also found out that the gas safety system was so floored it had to carry a disclaimer.....
My old boss faced a charge for the explosion.....but it disappeared......
The Board spent well over 200K going after me......but only spent about 30k going after my old boss......
Guess who got paid handsomely out of this......the investigator and his chums.....
The chair of my hearing, was good mates with the investigator......along with several Board members, the investigator was ex Board too.....just as I was going to go 100% innocent the biased chair shut down the hearing......
THE BOARD SENT CHILD SEXUAL ABUSE CASE NOTES TO MY HOME, READ BY MY WIFE BEFORE I CAME HOME, JUST BEFORE WE WERE FORCED TO SELL OUR HOME, I WORKED AWAY FOR 2 YEARS TO GET BY.
NO ONE TODAY HAS BEEN HELD RESPONSIBLE FOR NEARLY KILLING SOMEONE.....EVEN THOUGH THERE IS A WEALTH OF IRRIFUTABLE EVIDENCE AVAILABLE AND KNOWN......BY THE BOARD AND THE MINISTERS RESPONSIBLE
I LOST EVERYTHING ......
The new registrar reckons it is all water under the bridge......well the Board just celebrated 100 years of being, not its 100th incarnation or its 100th new member, it is a continuous membership.....
IF YOU COVER IT UP, YOU'RE AS BAD AS THE ONES THAT CARRIED OUT THE CORRUPTION.....
-
SHARE IT AROUND THE NZ PUBLIC ARE PUT AT RISK BY THE PEOPLE CHARGED WITH THEIR SAFETY.....IT IS WRONG
-
Sent to the registrar today
Here is a copy of what is posted publically on a forum, the thread shows a lot , not all of the evidence of the corrupt behaviour of the board, it is wrong and I am not going to stand for it and I do not think the NZ public should either.
I will do everything I can to flush this out in to the open.
It is the Board's responsibility it is a continuous member Board and has recently celebrated its 100 year anniversary....as no one there is over 100 years old, so I am guessing that the excuse of all this being water under the bridge is just a cover up.
What I have said has been said in public, if it is untrue I expect to shown where it is untrue.
The Board did this to me and any new members have a duty to address any past corruption or you are part of that corruption.
-
hi guys, Paul (Badger) the new registrar has stated In the `Plumbers Journal` that he is approachable and if you have a problem just give me a call,... so do you think that you should give him a ring,cheers
-
I told him face to face with two others there Craig O'Connell and Richard Meriwether......at the "feed back session" in Nelson, I told them everything....then I sent them stuff too. There was only two of us there and we were both not happy, believe me he knew my story.
They all told me that I should get over it and they were the new guys so it didn't apply to them..... but I told them it is a consecutive membership Board who has just celebrated 100 years of BEING......not its 100th new member.
As far as I am concerned if any new guys cover up any corruption then they might as well have done it themselves and are just as bad.
One thing the new registrar did say which I found quite enlightening was that he couldn't apologise because it would leave the Board exposed to legal action!
So take note he didn't say what I was saying was untrue, or that I was wrong or had misunderstood anything.....he said this after he told me I was just after money and I replied no I just want my life back and an apology to my wife for the child sexual abuse case notes sent to my home.
I would be happy if the Board left me were I was just before they framed me. Both financially and in my reputation.....are they going to put my kids through collage.....because before they corruptly set me up as a scape goat....I could have done that my self. Now I can barely feed them.
Believe me they are aware.....it is my experience that what is said publically....they do the opposite behind closed doors and while they stab you in the back.
-
A guy nearly died in an explosion, all the evidence points to one person, not me (the desired scapegoat) but my ex boss.
My ex boss faced a charge, but it disappeared before he went to his hearing.
They spent 220 k on chasing me and 30k chasing my ex boss.
As far as I know my ex boss was gifted his full certifying gas license after one oral exam, before this he was a gas salesman with an exception. The Board later appointed the same guy who gifted my old boss his license as the investigator, at a hearing chaired by the investigators mate. This very biased chair closed the hearing just as I was going to clear my name 100%.....
The Board knew my old boss didn't register a certificate for a pizza oven fitted a year after the fryers(a year after I left his employ), this pizza oven installed at the site of the explosion, they knew this 9 days after the explosion. Even though the Board claim to have never received this certificate (which all available carbon copies show the test for leaks section empty)....it appears on their electronic web site, how on earth can you say it wasn't registered if it appears on the website, same number, same appliance same everything, it is a lie.....Question how would the Board look if it accepted a cert missing a test for leaks that then exploded? Installed by a guy who hadn't done an apprenticeship, but given full qualification by the Board to sign off work?
In the photos supplied by the Board they included a picture of a hose being stressed....its was for the pizza oven mentioned above......but they withheld over 100 photos.....some of which proved I was innocent.
The charge that started all this I was cleared of, but the still went after me in the papers for one bullshit charge (out of 44) so I was found 95% innocent of my charges...my old boss 100% guilty of his charges (except the exploding chipshop, because that disappeared)
Of the charges he did face and was found guilty of all his other charges, all of them....... 75% of these involved gas supplies to commercial cooking equipment and the incorrect/dangerous installation of the hose and a lack of restraint.......exactly what caused the explosion at the chipshop, that nearly killed a guy, while he was in intensive care, they were framing me.....
All the new guys at the Board think this is water under the bridge, I strongly disagree.......what do you think?
-
......of the quarter of a million dollars spent on these two cases.....remember if it cost this amount, then people were paid this money.....a good chunk of it was paid to the investigator, the guy who framed me.....nice work if you can get it.....
Water under the bridge????? its a f****ing tsunami of bullshit....
If these new board members brush this under the carpet, then they are as good as condoning it......
The thing with brushing things under the carpet it creates a trip hazard for the future.
I also told these new Board members about the legionnaires risk at a site where the water comes out of the shower after living in the radiators all summer, and I do mean living....I even offered to walk them to it and show them......they do nothing.....
Just bear all this in mind the next time you hear them pontificating about safe work and going after cowboys.....its all smoke and mirrors....
-
The same investigator, the one who gifted the full certifying license to my old boss......well he lobbied for deregulation and was instrumental in bringing in the self cert system....the same cert system shown to be wanting, by my old boss....he also was a co author on the NZ 5261.....
The table he used to screw me over on, the non mandatory flue clearance table......
Have a look at it, you can put a spa blower(which actually sucks from outside in to usually one of the smallest rooms, i.e. a bathroom) closer to a flue than a passive open window.....these spa blowers move a lot of air, then put it into a steam filled bathroom......where you sit in the air sucked in and expelled by the sap blower, right under you nose.......it is contradictory.
You seen the photos on here of how a powered flue actually behaves.....
The biased Board put their full faith in the biased investigator, for my final charge, if that disappeared then the one for signing it off disappeared too.....100% innocent, even though they spent 220k going after me with a very biased investigator and a stacked panel at the hearing.....
I did nothing wrong and lost everything.......The registrar thinks I am just after money..........
-
Have just PM the" Story" facebook page and gave them the link{cause they wont be members will they be able to se the link}
-
Should be able to, publicity is the only thing that will fix this.....
Thank you so much mate
-
Just came home to a letter from the new registrar informing me that the poor elderly couple's complaint about fumes entering their home through a window from a califont.....well they aren't going to act on it, this is the complaint where the poor old couple had resorted to taking anti stress medication....it is closer than the one in my final charge.....
Exactly the same situation as the califont concerned with my final charge (except my one is further away) oh and the owner never complained and he thought it was in the best place it could be, and that no fumes was entering his home in the 6 years that he had lived there.......this cost me my business and they went after me for it........
The one of the elderly couple is much more enclosed and a lack of cross ventilation.......the califont in my situation couldn't be more open and the fumes are shot right across the back garden.......if you look back on this thread you'll se what I mean with the photos and smoke bomb.....
So what do you think about the new regime now?
I went quite for a bit because I wanted to give the new guys a chance to act and make a difference......not so it seems.....
Right ideas for a crazy headline grabbing stunt......answers on a post card....
-
That is the only charge they had on me after all that persecution....and the last charge was for signing this califont off......I would have been 100 % innocent....
But they kept hold of this last charge when it was allowing them to stich me up....... stich me up for something that they aren't going to pursue when an elderly couple actually complains about it.......and they are totally stressed by it.......
CUNTS.....THERE IS NO OTHER WORD FOR THEM, TOTAL AND UTTER CUNTS
-
I answered 42 out of 44 trumped up charges and the one thing they found me "guilty" of........they have decided to ignore in another much worse situation......
Can anyone explain this to me....
I have done nothing wrong, at all, no matter which way you look at it.....I was found "guilty based on the opinion of a very conflicted person who had everything to cover up.....
According to Nick Smith our minister, the same guy trying to inflict the same type of self cert system on the building trade......he told me I had gone too far!!!
Really Mr Smith?
-
If you inherited a position running an industry Board and you found out that same organisation had acted corruptly, risking the public's health and safety, in the past would you.....
A..... cover it up further and try to ignore any past indiscretions and hope the people who are still working along side you, got up one morning and had a complete change of heart and decided to turn over a new leaf....
B..... ignore it because hell, this was why they got you in, because your one of them and anyone crossing "us" better watch out.....
C..... fix things and gain a huge amount of respect, credibility and integrity by admitting this behaviour is unacceptable and you won't stand for it, making an example of the dodgy dirty little shits who have brought this trade to a new low....
D..... your too gutless and too much of a self server to do the right thing, hopefully it'll all blow over and the bad people will move on....
I'm a C man myself......
-
I was told that they refuse to apologise because it opens them to legal action....
Not...your wrong Paul, or your making this up go away.....
So they KNOW what happened.......they KNOW about unsafe work and they KNOW it was a cover up to protect those involved, including the Board's own involvement in totally mismanaging the gas "so-called" safety system......
For them not to address this....is for them to condone it.....
These are the people who annually call you incompetent and force CPD down your throat, chase you to see your card and charge you 100's of dollars to practice your craft....that you actually did an apprenticeship for....while they had out licenses to their mates....
I don't like hypocrites nor bullies, and I certainly don't like liars and corrupts.....how do you feel about it?
-
hi guys, totally agree Paul, if only we could collectively haul em in front of a judge, the privy council in London would sort it,cheers
-
A Board has to be fair transparent and honest, it HAS to be (ethically and legally).....if they can do this to one of us, then they can do this to every single one of you.....
We HAVE a defunct body of faulty gas certs.......do any one of you think that if it came down to the Board being given the choice (and believe me it is totally in their power to choose) of facing any repercussions for their actions and total mismanagement of that defunct system.....or....hanging anyone of you out to dry......which way do you think they will go.....
I KNOW which way.....
I have blatant evidence, I have run their corrupt gauntlet, I WON hands down I have proven I am 100% innocent, publically at that too boot....but they still manipulated it so that I lost everything...
How will you fair in a system like that?
Remember all that work you did and didn't photograph it?
Are you sure the work hasn't been changed?
Are Board going to claim never to have received your cert, or even say they did when you haven't done the work?
Is your boss f****ing you over and more connected than you are?
You will never have a better chance than this to get fair play and SHOW these goons they can't do this to anyone of us, none of US.
Or you can roll the dice and take your chances, that if it ever happens to you, that they will play fair and not f**** you over and they will fall on their sword and take one for you......this WILL NOT HAPPEN, believe!
-
Robbo, my old mate....publicity.....it is that simple....
My analogy of them is the vampire......
Allowed to lurk in the dark shadows, with everyone fearful that they will come for you in the dark of night, slipping in through your window while you sleep......they will always win, behind closed doors where they single you out like any predator would....YOU ARE AND WILL BE TOTALLY f****ED.....
But in a public forum, with the public watching, out in the sunlight with us all awake and not fearful of them.....poof up in a cloud of corrupt smoke and dust.....
The reason they tried to do me was that the cert system was run so much blasé flare and they handed license's out so flippantly that it nearly killed someone.....but they didn't learn by this....they kept doing it.....
If any of this is untrue I expect a letter from one of their legal team, which I will use as toilet paper and see them in court......
-
I can't afford to take them to court and I can not find a lawyer to work pro bono....
So the way our system works murderers, rapists and child molesters have more access to legal aid and a defence than I do.....(Wal and the Feds are awesome might I add and if I didn't have them as a support then I would have gone down the river like all those before me).
But unless you can employ a lawyer, you can't take them to court, never mind the way the system is levelled in their favour and the political clout they have.....
YOU ARE WHEN IT COMES TO THE BOARD...GUILTY UNTIL YOU PROVE YOU ARE INNOCENT.....there is not plain right and wrong, they treat everything you say as a lie, I had evidence withheld and misrepresented, they spent SEVEN time more chasing me than my old boss......I was a ex president for Nelson Mater Plumbers.....So the mater plumbers who screwed me over went against their own rules and ethics........
BUT NUMBERS IN PUBLIC, now that's a different matter......
-
I know they read this forum.....but they don't take me to court for slander nor defamation.....because telling the truth isn't defamation and its slanderous to tell people when you have been screwed over by a bunch of corrupts, its just telling the truth......
Last time I checked we lived in a so called democracy......
-
I have concerns over the High Court appeal process and how it carried out too....
The investigators lawyer tried to prevent my right of appeal, the appeal which cost me $5000.00 just to lodge......where I was only allowed to talk about the window measurement and wasn't allowed to adduce any new evidence......evidence like one of the other authors of the NZ regs saying I could use another countries regs and the actual British Regs that proved what I had done would have been ok in the UK, with OVER 60 MILLION PEOPLE FITTING THEIR WATER HEATERS 40MM CLOSER THAN THE ONE THAT LOST ME MY BUSINESS....
Even though I went 95% innocent the Board went in my local paper and said they hade concerns over my work and responsibilities in signing work off.....the same Board who totally cocked up the cert system to the extent that it had to carry a disclaimer!!!
When we said the letter that told total untruths about my issuing illegal certs in Northland (a place I have never been to, but it is where a guy signed 560 blank certs, and a case involved in it is STILL before the Board, with his son gifted a certifying license just like my old boss was)....well when we said this letter sent to all the sites of my additional charges was fabricated .... WE got told off......
You think you'll get fairness, think again......they will learn from this and they will polish their game.....
Think on it......they have a lawyer as a Registrar now, like they didn't have enough lawyers already....
Martin Sawyers, the new CO said in the NZ Plumbers mag....
"I believe in a disciplinary system that is fair, risk based and proportionate"
So is it fair to have appointed as the investigator (even after I complained), the same Tony Hammond who gifted my boss his full certifying license with no apprenticeship served?
Was it fair to spend seven times as much chasing me than my old boss?
Was it fair to ignore the cert for the pizza oven, even when it is mentioned in the DOL complaint by number, saying it was never registered by my old boss with the Board.....with all available copies missing the leak test results....and a copy on the Boards electronic register?
Was it fair to withhold over 100 photos when they proved what I had said for two years?
Was it fair to change half of the charges just weeks out from he hearing?
Was it fair to have the investigators mate chair the hearing, then shut it down just as I was going to go 100% innocent?
Ignoring a legionnaires risk, is this risk based management?
Is it proportionate for my to loose everything for something I had tried to warn about for 6 years before it exploded?
Is it proportionate for Martin Sawyers opening comment to me when he first met me in person to say "you're only after money"?
Sorry martin, your public statement carries no water with me mate!!!
Do you trust this guy?....he knows full well what happened to me......and he goes and says that to your face.........
I think it is insulting to you all......
-
The Plumber's Board is an entity all of its own, and while I understand that the new people could do nothing to prevent the corruption, they have every power to address it.....
It celebrated 100 years of being in existence, not its 100th new member.....it is a continuous membership Board....
I believe if you sign on you sign on for past behaviour.....if the history of the Board is corrupt then the Board need to fix it....whether it be yesterday today or tomorrow......
I can't not express this enough, I will plug away at this for ever, until someone with integrity and honesty takes the reins, I don't care whether that is today or in 10 or 20 years....it will be my life's work....I assure you of that.
-
I DON'T FIT UNDER CARPETS ;)
-
DOSEN'T IT WORRY YOU THAT THEY ARE HAPPY FOR ME TO SAY ALL THIS???
BECAUSE IF SOMEONE SAID THIS ABOUT ME AND IT WASN'T TRUE ......I WOULD DEFEND MY SELF FROM THE ROOFTOPS......
GOOD LUCK GUYS, RUNNING THEIR GAUNTLET....
-
Sent just now, as I do not believe in sniping at someone from the shadows....and I am not a hypocrite.....
Today at 12:17 PM
Mr Sawyers,
Please can you explain, in light of my persecution and being set up as a scapegoat and the subsequent kangaroo court and also the Board ignoring a legionnaires risk.... your intention of the statment below, attributable to you in the NZ Plumber's mag. It is from my experience an untruth.
Please do not, as you have to my face, use the excuse that your the new guy and it had nothing to do with you....you are the CO of a continuous membership Board and to not address past corruption is to condone it.
"I believe in a disciplinary system that is fair, risk based and proportionate"
My premeditated corrupt treatment, with over 7 times as much spent persecuting me than on my old boss shows that this statement is empty if you do not act on my accusations of corruption.
As I believe in transparency and facing up to my accusations and not hiding in the shadows I have attached this link, and I will post this email in the same forum.
While I have your ear and you being a lawyer, please can you explain the relevance of child sexual abuse case notes being used in my case, sent under a blank wrapper with no warning of their vile content and read by my wife while she was alone in he home and about to loose that home. In what context or relevance is this acceptable?
http://www.plumbers.co.nz/forum/fellow-practitioners-update/41/fellow-practitioner-issue-236-dated-12-december-2014/1810/msg9945#msg9945
Yours so very sincerely Paul Gee.
-
I will let you all know his reply....
But before they try the "we're the new guys" routine.....
They are not a flock of geese that get to change the ones at the front so they can keep going in the same direction, they MUST be accountable for ALL the Board's actions, because when you join the Board, you are the Board.
-
Corruption needs to be stamped out, pulled out into the open and shown for what it is.....
I believe to not address past corruption and try to cover it up or try to pretend it didn't happen, just prolongs the corruption and tells those that follow it is acceptable.....
There isn't a law in the land that says "corruption, well its ok if you now people!".....if there is then I would love a look at it.
The thing is in an open forum, they can't bully and they can't set you up.....safety for us is in the open and with everyone watching,
RIGHT IS MIGHT....
or we have nothing, nothing but empty promises and bullshit.
-
The Board is an entity, a being..... a person if you will, that is why it is paramount to represent it to your best endeavour and up hold it, if it acts corruptly it needs to be stamped out and addressed, not just a "well it wasn't me" with a finger pointing to your predecessors, that is a cop out attitude....to ignore corruption means the Board looses all its credibility and integrity and in doing so its validity.
If your a member of the Board you should be outraged at corruption, because as well as you representing the Board....the Board represents who you are......hell it represents who we all are, the Government, everyone.
So that is why the "we're the new guys" is bullshit and an excuse and a cover up.....
Man up and address your mistakes.....you force us to do just that...every single day.....to not to yourself while you pontificate about fair play and safety, well it is nothing but hypocritical and an insult to every tradesman and person you represent.
-
So Mr sawyers thinks I am just after money.....well this is not true......
(Martin, I know you'll be reading this, this says more about you and your attitude and goals than mine)....So your a boxer aren't you?....me too.....fancy raising some money for the Ronald McDonald House for children? You've met me and I have met you, fancy some charity work?, you work for a charity already....more for tax purpose's though I know, but you got the training in, next fight for life mate?
I would accept vouchers to a decent collage for my sons, if Martin wants to he can set up a viable business then hand it to my sons, he can if he likes pay for counselling for my traumatised wife and then invent and finance a time machine so I can relive two years of my sons lives that I had to work away for, after I had my life robbed from me....any parents will understand how precious the 4 and 6 years are....oh and the years 5 and 7 years.... I HAD to work away for most of those years, these are priceless.
All of this was mine and was mine to give to my family.....just before the Board set me up and tried to use me to cover up their own short comings....
All I want is to be where I was before the Board corruptly screwed me over.....not ahead....but where I was....I'll do the rest.
I am serious about the charity work mate, love to....
-
So how about some real charity work then? Not just tax evasion but real cash in the coffers for the Ronald McDonald house in Christchurch....where my eldest son had to have a fontanel cut into his skull, (as he was born with no soft spot), when he was just a year old......just three years before the scum in the Board framed me.
My wife, my rock, the lovely woman that the absolute scum of a lawyer sent child sexual abuse case notes to, tell that poor excuse of a man I'll box him with both hands tied behind my back, literally....the punters would love it.
I'll ring Dean Lonigan as soon as you give me the nod Mr Sawyers. Lets raise some money for a good cause.
-
Here's another statement from Mr Sawyers....
"It is simply not appropriate for me to revisit decisions made in the past which have been the subject of proper and lawful findings by the Board and/or any other agency or body"
My emphasis in bold...
I completely agree with this statement.....if, giant IF I had been subject to "proper and lawful" process...I don't believe the persecution is proper and lawful.....well in a civilised society it shouldn't be proper and lawful.....
You see I do not believe it is "proper and lawful" to with hold evidence....
I do not believe it is "proper and lawful" to with hold evidence....
I do not believe it is "proper and lawful" to have a stacked hearing where the investigator, the panel and the chair are biased...
I do not believe it is "proper and lawful" to have the real culprit face a charge then have it "disappear" before trial...
I do not believe it is "proper and lawful" to ignore missing leak test results at the site of an explosion....
I do not believe it is "proper and lawful" to spend seven times more perusing the person who tried to warn about dodgy certs covering dodgy work.....than the other person who ALL the evidence points to.....
There is lots and lots more, you have heard some of it before....
I do not believe it is "proper and lawful" to cover this up either......
So how much weight can you put in the statements released by this guy?
He publically states.....
"I believe in a disciplinary system that is fair, risk based and proportionate"
I don't believe you mate.....
-
You are a lawyer Mr Sawyers....
Point me in the direction of the law statue that lists the corrupt behaviour below as proper and lawful...
Then you can explain to me how the corrupt behaviour listed below is fair and proportionate.....
"I believe in a disciplinary system that is fair, risk based and proportionate"
You see if you can't do that, then I find it hard to give you any credibility or integrity....
A fair minded lay person could be forgiven for thinking you were just say things to carry out a cover up......do your self a favour Martin.....go look at the state of the fox-pro system, how badly run it was, then look at my warnings for 6 years, then go look at the cert for the pizza oven, then the DOL complaint that mentions that cert by number......then look at my kangaroo court.....
Tell me Martin which part is proper and lawful......it ain't mate.....
-
So the new CEO for the Plumbers Board made this statement.....
"I believe in a disciplinary system that is fair, risk based and proportionate"
It is by a crazy co-incidence that I too believe.....not like believing in the tooth fairy nor father Christmas, which is what some appear to mean but....
"I also believe in a disciplinary system that is fair, risk based and proportionate"........
When I see a disciplinary system that is fair, risk based and proportionate and have my life restored back to where I was just before I was framed as a scapegoat for an explosion, that resulted from a situation that I had tried to warn about for 6 years before it nearly killed someone.....done to protect the Board's sloppy administration of the gas "safety" cert system and the flippant handing out of full certifying status to the "connected" people (same guy who is being protected, face a charge for the explosion... that then disappeared).....all done at a huge risk to the health and safety of NZers......and still covered up until this very day.
How on earth can I make such statements when the Board will set their lawyers on anyone and everyone......
Because it is true that's why.....and I would love to go to court.....where's my invite?
-
"I believe in a disciplinary system that is fair, risk based and proportionate".......This is what Mr Sawyers claims to uphold.....
But this is what I experienced below......
This is a select committee submission I made below in blue, I have since found out that they spent under 30k going after my old boss (when they spent over 220k persecuting me).....also I paid for the only qualified handwriting expert in NZ, that points to my old boss denying his own handwriting when questioned by the investigator about the handwriting on a job card for the exploding gas fryers.....you know the same investigator who gave my old boss his full certifying license, with no apprenticeship served.
My old boss faced a charge for the exploding chipshop.....but this charge never made his hearing.....how can a charge disappear with no trial?
Attached is the DOL complaint that started this all off.....you'll notice there is a cert number 345138 mentioned on it....this is the "pizza oven" cert.....the one missing the gas leak tests info and the one that is claimed by the Board " that is was never received by the Board".....even though there is a copy on the Board's website (check it out if you like).......FFS really?
Oh and I had complained about my old boss for 6 years before the explosion....regarding dodgy work covered by dodgy certs....exactly like the one mentioned by number above....cert 345138, if you could sum up my fears.....then cert 345138 has it all......
But the Board ignored this and went after me......I lost everything....and the Board terrorised my family.....
There is another job where the water for the central heating comes out of the owner's shower.....all done and signed off by my old boss.
"I believe in a disciplinary system that is fair, risk based and proportionate".......I do not think you can make this statement and not address my case Mr Sawyers......
Dear Select Committee,
1. Introduction
2. My name is Paul Gee, a certifying gasfitter and plumber from the Tasman/Nelson area. I am in full agreement with the Plumbers, Gasfitters and Drainlayers Federation’s submission, and only offer this personal submission under my own steam and banner to go toward showing how the Plumbers, Gasfitters and Drainlayers Board (PGDB) have spent the illegally gained funds, needlessly savaging my life and terrorising my wife in doing so.
3. I have lost my business and reputation, my home and time with my young family, all for a situation that I had tried to warn about for 6 years previously, before an explosion nearly killed someone, i.e. dodgy certs covering dodgy work. With no one held accountable for this. As this situation spans almost 10 years of my life and is hugely personal to me I am truly thankful for all understanding and consideration shown for this lengthy submission and I thank you in advance for this.
4. I believe the Board have made a scapegoat of me to hide their own short comings and in-action.
5. Concerns
6. My concerns are centred on the illegally funded past and current prosecution and discipline systems of the PGDB within the gasfitting industry and the apparent covering up by the PGDB of either a badly designed gas safety certification system and/or incompetence/malpractice administering this system.
7. I believe that the Board ignored conflicts of interest and acted in bad faith, with out duty of care and against natural justice; leading to an unfair and needless investigation and the resulting decision by the Board in respect to me. Please note that I strongly believe in industry regulation and the holding of “cowboys” to account within the industry, which was why I had tried to warn about all of this from the outset.
8. I believe they undertook a needless disciplinary action against me, utilising these illegally gained funds spending over $200,000.00 on my case. What has occurred to me has since been made available to the Building and Housing Minister.
9. In particular, my concerns are not just about the afore mentioned conflicts of interests that were ignored, but also the misrepresentation and withholding of evidence and the resulting decision of the Board, and in particular the way the investigation was carried out.
10. Background
11. I am a qualified gas service engineer in the United Kingdom, trained by British Gas in 1989. I was registered by the PGDB as a craftsman gasfitter on 15 February 1999.
12. I began working for a gas company in late February 2003 in Nelson. At the beginning of this employment, I was instructed by the manager to fill out the work sheets only and the office staff would fill out the gas certification certificate and I only had to sign them, then the office staff would file them. Note: The manger and office staff was a family and related, i.e. a husband (manager), wife (office manager), daughter (office girl) and son in law (limited licence gasfitter, who worked unsupervised most of the time).
13. After approximately five months of employment with this gas company, I became very concerned about how gasfitting work was being carried out and the possible safety implications of this apparent malpractice. I attempted to raise this concern verbally with the manager; however it was dismissed by him. Toward the end of the period of this employment I handed back certificates to the manager, refusing to sign them as they were unfinished or unsafe.
14. On 10 November 2003, I attended a meeting with the Manager. At this meeting, I submitted a written statement outlining my safety concerns; this written statement was later provided to the Board and appears in my Hearing’s Bundle (HB).
15. On 13 November 2003, I was issued with a written warning by the manager for how I had expressed my concerns about safety to his son in law, (HB). In response to this written warning I indicated I would resign as soon as was practicable.
16. On 14 November 2003, four books of non-transferable gas certificates were ordered, for the one and only time, by some one at the gas company. It was done in my name, without my knowledge, (HB).
17. On 19 November 2003, I gave two weeks notice and resigned from this gas company, (HB).
18. I later found out, after the explosion, that on the 4th March 2004, three months after I left, someone from this gas company, on this company’s letterhead, wrote a letter in my name to alter a gas certificate to the PGDB, which was apparently acted on, (HB).
19. I then began work as a subcontractor for a different gas company in December 2003 where I immediately became aware of improper use of gas certificates that were in my name, actually one of the certificates I had refused to sign because the job was unsafe/unfinished, (HB).
20. In response, I contacted the PGDB by telephone, which was when I became aware of the 4 books ordered in my name, and again in writing on 6 January 2004. In response, the PGDB replied to me, dismissing my complaint and providing what I believe are inconsistencies and incorrect facts. (HB)
21. A year later I came across yet another irregular certificate in my name, covering unsafe work. I contacted a lawyer, as the Board refused to talk to me without one, on 13 January 2005. (HB)
22. I also contacted my former employer, the gas company mentioned above, which had a new manager, on the 24 January 2005.
23. The outcome of my lawyer’s inquiry to the PGDB was there were over a 1000 certificates in my name and it would cost $25 per certificate to check. I could not afford this potential sum of $25,000 and told them so by phone. The letter from the Board’s lawyer had inconsistencies and incorrect facts. I had only worked at this gas company for some 10 months.
24. I approached a Member of Parliament on 24 May 2006 after hearing no further from the PGDB. A letter was written to the PGDB on 6 June 2006. No response was made to me. I followed up this letter by sending a fax to a member of the PGDB on 21 August 2006. Again, I had no response. I later contacted another Member of Parliament by email, outlining my concerns for health and safety. This was passed on to the Minister for Safety and Health at the time. This Minister replied indicating he would look into the matter; however I received no further contact. Most, if not all, of the proof of this correspondence is in the possession of the PGDB, (HB).
25. On 8 July 2009, the Board received a complaint from the Department of Labour, regarding a gas explosion at 136 Milton Street, Nelson. An “impartial” investigator was appointed according to section 40 of the Act.
26. I requested an impartiality hearing with PGDB, it was held on 22 February 2011 where I raised concerns about conflicts of interest. They were dismissed.
27. Disciplinary action was taken against me under section 42 of the Plumbers, Gasfitters and Drainlayers Act 1976 (“the Act”) as a result of the investigation. The matter was heard between 3 and 5 May 2011 by the Board. The decision was given in July 2011 where I was found guilty under section 42(1)(c) of the Act in relation to only one of the seven properties that were investigated by the “impartial” investigator.
28. Out of 44 charges laid by the Board, I was found guilty of only two, neither of which was at the site of the explosion that initiated the complaint by the Department of Labour. No one else as far as I am aware was questioned about the site of the explosion, whether as part of the initial investigation or since.
29. The Board required I undertake a course of instruction as an extra condition of re-licensing as a certified gasfitter for the 2013/2014 licensing year.
30. This “course of instruction” had to be custom made for me at my expense. I have recently carried out an “assessment”, rather than course of instruction. I passed with a 90% mark and was told by the assessor that I would be in the top 10% of the people he had ever assessed.
31. Of the “impartial” investigators initial audits of my work, none of his initial concerns made it to charges that later surfaced in a second audit. This second audit was ordered by him on the basis of these initial audits and “concerns”. A letter from the Board’s lawyer states that three years worth of my work was audited, but the “impartial” investigator only claims to have audited 10% of my work for that period.
32. On 2 October 2009, the then Acting Registrar of The Board sent letters to the owners of six properties where the PGDB alleged I had carried out gasfitting work and that were identified by the “impartial” investigator’s investigation as having compliance issues.
33. These letters, which covered each and every area that I had ever worked in for my own business, from the West Coast to Havelock of the top of the south island, with Nelson and Motueka in between, one or two letters per area. By far the most damaging was the one to Motueka High school, the only high school in what WAS my main centre of business, and my business disappeared not long after these letters. I wasn’t made aware of these letters until the Motueka High school contacted me.
34. These letters noted there was an issue with a number of gas certificates illegally sold affecting a number of homes from Northland to Waikato and the Bay of Plenty, and that the certificate pertaining to their address was one of these. I have never carried out work in these North Island areas and these letters caused me the loss of my business, distress and loss of reputation.
35. By far the worst event on a personal level was during the build up and preparation for my Hearing, the “impartial” investigator’s lawyer sent to my home, unmarked child sexual abuse case notes to prove his point on probabilities. As they were unmarked of their vile content, my long suffering wife read them and I came home to find her hysterical. At this time she was facing living in a caravan for the winter with her husband working away, minding our two young sons, as we were financially forced to sell our home. This situation that my wife faced later happened and I have had to work away for nearly two years since. I have told the present CEO of the Board about this, he has no problem with it and another PGDB member’s solution that he offered to me was “…had I thought of returning to the UK or going to Aussie”.
36. I filed a notice of appeal to the decision of the Board on 16 November 2011. The appeal was heard in the High Court on 5 March 2012 and the decision given on 14 March 2012. The focus of this appeal was on the finding I was guilty of an act or omission contrary to the integrity of the gasfitting trade. The appeal was dismissed.
37. On 22 June 2012, the Boards external assessor and QC released an opinion on eight complaints I raised. She concluded that under the Board’s Historical Complaints Resolution Policy, only one of my complaints fell within the scope of the Policy: that the letters sent by the Board’s Acting Registrar on 2 October 2009 did cause me a disadvantage. I have heard nothing since.
38. Impartiality
39. My claim is that the “impartial” investigator was not an impartial investigator as is required for natural justice. He is a member and fellow of the NZIGE and a member of IPENZ, GANZ and the Kennedy Trust and at the time my old boss was also a member of NZIGE and other gas groups.
40. In addition, I believe that the “impartial” investigator was the person who granted my old boss his full craftsman status, after just one oral exam and with no apprenticeship served.
41. The “impartial” investigator also was nominated by GANZ to co-author the NZ 5261, the standard that I had offered an alternative to in defending against my two founded charges. This is a conflict of interest that should not have been ignored. I tried to raise the issue at the impartiality hearing in February 2011, where my concerns were dismissed.
42. I believe that the table 16 of NZ 5261, which he refers to within this Standard and is particular to my charges, is contradictory and confusing. Table 16 had also been amended which gives the tradesman the impression that the table is not strict in its application, not to mention it is in the non-mandatory part two of the standard.
43. The present Chairman of the PGDB and a panel member of my hearing is also a member of IPENZ, of which NZIGE is an arm of that according to a press release from IPENZ – “NZIGE collaborates closely with IPENZ”. This same person released a press release just after my Hearing stating I lacked fundamental knowledge of my trade, this appeared in my local newspaper.
44. I also believe there was a conflict of interest between the “impartial” investigator and the Presiding Board Member at the disciplinary hearing. The “impartial” investigator and the Presiding Board Member have served together in numerous organisations, NZIGE, GANZ, and the Kennedy Trust, and have made numerous presentations together as a duo to the gas industry.
45. The Presiding Board Member was on the executive of GANZ, the nominating organisation for the “impartial” investigator to co-author the referenced standard NZ 5261.
46. The “impartial” investigator was the technical adviser to the Presiding Board Member at GANZ. I believe this would lead to the Presiding Board Member to put more weight in the “impartial” investigator’s opinion because of their personal relationship and their work on NZ 5261. They would both, in all probability, want the integrity of NZ 5261 to remain intact because of their involvement in developing it.
47. The “impartial” investigator was also heavily involved with the deregulation of the gas industry and a driving force behind self certification for gasfitting. In light of this I believe he would also have a vested interest in maintaining the integrity of this certification system he had helped create, which has some apparent serious flaws in its application and the PGDB’s administration of it, most if not all of this was raised at the impartiality hearing I had requested, but was dismissed.
48. Further, at the site of this explosion no one has been held accountable, although all copies of the last certificate issued for work carried out at this site of an explosion; lack any gas leak test entry which is a compulsory field on the now electronic website. This certificate is totally in my old manager’s name and was signed for a year after the initial installation and at least a year after my leaving the employment of the gas company mentioned above. The PGDB claim never to have received or registered this certificate, but an electronic version appears on the electronic register on their website. This electronic register also carries a disclaimer stating the inaccuracy of the register.
49. Unfair Investigation
50. I believe I was unfairly investigated, as were the charges brought against me regarding seven properties. Only two, out of 44 charges, regarding one property were upheld, which would be dismissed by a well used British Standard, if it was allowed.
51. As a result my business and reputation was damaged and my ability to earn an income suffered. I believe that the PGDB appointed investigator was not an impartial investigator and that serious evidence was misrepresented or ignored at the Hearing. I was presumed guilty, having to prove innocence and disadvantaged by not allowing me to submit further evidence, which would clear me of all wrong doing, for a situation I had tried to warn about for 6 years.
52. My appeal was dismissed because I could not, due to limiting PGDB policy, give any further evidence. The evidence I tried to adduce was a British Standard that would show what I had done was safe and a relevant alternative to the non-mandatory part two of the NZ 5261 standard that I was found guilty of contravening. Of note, the only other certifying gasfitter in the room at the hearing was on the panel for the PGDB, and he was British.
53. I also tried to adduce an email from another, co-author of NZ5261. This email said I could use a British Standard if it was relevant, and I believe it is. This would have left me completely innocent of any wrong-doing.
54. At the actual hearing I had offered other information and illustrated how I knew the fumes would behave on the appliance I had been later found guilty for installing and certifying. The owner of the same dwelling said he had no problems with it in the previous six years since installation, and it was the only obvious place to put the appliance in question. Even the “impartial” investigator also commented that if the fumes were not entering the building then I would have complied with Part one of NZ5261 which is mandatory, and so I would have done nothing wrong. All of this evidence was apparently ignored, with no further evidence put forward by the PGDB, other than the above mentioned “Table 16”, to go to show what I had done was dangerous, which I still believe it was not.
55. In light of this treatment, and it is very brief and incomplete and a pick of the worst, I would like to ask a question and make a suggestion to the Select Committee
56. My question is-
• Is the Committee comfortable for the PGDB to enforce over a 1000% increase in discipline levies in under a decade and then claim it illegally from tradesman, BUT THEN (and this is my main point and reason for my submission) to use this ill gotten money as a fund to persecute and disadvantage innocent, well meaning, registered trades-people, using this illegal discipline levy as a war chest to bring down any opponents within the industry, or anyone they have a grudge with? As is evidenced by my treatment. They openly boast of a 100% conviction rate.
57. My suggestion is-
• While you are being asked to amend this Act, please consider changing the Act so that the Board is a liable entity or at least open to more than just recommendations, which they routinely ignore. As it is now the Board is non-liable under the Act, and accordingly the PGDB apparently acts with scant regard and impunity The PGDB have done this even while hiding behind, and trying to maintain, the façade of a registered charity, spending as far as I am aware over $46,000.00 in appealing their de-registration as a charity, apparently using the same clause** that is limited to $500.00 when used in making a compensation payment to me because of the letters sent to my customers.
**The Part 148 of the 2006 Act enables the Board in any financial year, to expend for purposes not authorised by any act, a sum not amounting to more than $500.
58. I thank the Committee for your time. And ask with all due respect and humility are these the actions and the behaviour of an organisation that are moral or ethical? Are they the people best suited to lead our industry? Can you trust these people to have a blank cheque as it were, which is what will happen if this is bill is validated and acting with impunity as they are non liable for their actions.
59. There is a huge decline in the industry and training sector, of which I fear we are just seeing the tip of this huge iceberg, the future is bleak. The PGDB is still apparently acting in a corrupt, nepotistic and incompetent manner, continually acting against the best recommendations of the damming OAG report and in the face of the best practice recommendations of the NZ Law Commission, acting apparently in bad faith.
60. If you were in a position to, and are able to appoint a public enquiry, I will provide proof and substance to back my claims.
Yours Sincerely Paul Gee
-
Does corruption have a sell by date?, if you ignore it long enough will it disappear?
Apparently Mr Sawyers the new CO for the Plumber's Board thinks I am just after money and that because he's new he doesn't need to address any of this corruption.....well I am after justice really and to be compensated for the corruption levelled on me, by the Plumbers Board, just to take me back to where I was before they fitted me up as a scapegoat, oh that and a public inquiry.
The Board covered this up while the owner of the chipshop was laying in intensive care burns unit, the Board became aware of the "non registration" of the cert 345138 just days after the explosion.....this is frankly total bullshit....look up cert number 345138 on their website.......now explain to me how if you didn't receive the cert.....how can ALL the details make it on to the system, even by the number of the cert...... Perhaps the same method was used in making the charge for the exploding chipshop that my old boss faced disappear....with no trial.....
Do you still feel that Mr Sawyers believes in a disciplinary system that is fair, risk based and proportionate.......
I go my doubts to be honest.....
-
"Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it." -George Santanaya
-
'The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.'
-
come on pgdb , time to be humble , put ya hand up because you f****ed up . paul rightfully is not just going to go away! get your cap in hand & say sorry .we are watching all of you , until you put this right we can only dismiss you & as a industry this only prevents us moving forward .
to say this man & his family are : after the money : is just stupid , of course he should be compensated , he lost everything . $500 come on $500,000 wouldn't come close. I have been part of this industry since 1987 & I have never seen our license money used properly , so that's it , so simple . one hand up & one hand in your pocket , while on knees ,asking for forgiveness & hope he sees it to do so because you all deserve a lot more . do it , do it now !!!!
-
Thank you for your support mate means a lot to us, a hell of a lot.
But a "f**** up" implies perhaps it was a mistake, this was no mistake it was directed and premeditated.....just look at the funds put in to chase me and the amount to chase Darnley, 220K for me under 30K for Darnley....and still they won't check his work or look at the evidence that he denied his own handwriting on the job card for the exploding fryers.
-
I sent this yesterday to the Ombudsman.....who is using his powers of discretion not to look at this......
You think you live in a free and fair democracy.....think again......"Fairness for All".....
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Paul & Emma Gee [mailto:gspservices@xtra.co.nz]
Sent: Tuesday, 20 October 2015 5:42 p.m.
To: 'Info'; 'Janis Adair'; 'Jude Hutton'; 'Andrew.McCaw@ombudsmen.parliament.nz'
Cc: 'Wal Gordon'; 'Allan Day'; 'Colleen Upton'; 'Lyndon Moffitt'; 'paul@paulhenry.co.nz'; 'john.key@national.org.nz'; 'Andrew Little'
Subject: COVER UP
20/10/2015 sent to the Ombudsman’s Office
Dear Mr Patterson,
I am deeply saddened and disappointed by your four replies, see attached.
I am also confused because you have publically talked of fairness and accountability and the protection of whistle blowers; you have even produced papers on such matters, but now it seems after all this time since my original complaint instead of looking at my situation you appear to want to make it all about OIA requests. Which even these you have “provisionally” ignored?
My original complaint is still to be answered and these OIA requests are but side issues that actually add to my claims of a cover up and directed persecution of myself and my family by the PGDB.
My original complaint was a cry for fairness and accountability. It seems that the very people I am complaining about are given your full belief and you then use your powers of discretion to ignore me and refuse to look at my case.
I will address each reply from the perspective of a fair minded lay person; I am a practical man and can only deal and comment in what I can observe with my senses and that which seems right and fair to my conscience.
In light of my recent experience, it appears to me that the “law” is a rule book, only available to a select few, to be manipulated by lawyers for a substantial fee in order to control the situations and the lives of others, while ignoring truth, blatant evidence, common sense and ethics.
I have no legal training, and from what I have seen and experienced, this is of great relief to my conscience and my sense of ethics.
Remember the holocaust, slave trade and apartheid were “legal” to the institutions that it best suited and was convenient for, but it totally ignored common sense, ethics and was most definitely morally repugnant.
For me, someone who once held the law in high esteem, with deep regard. I now see the law as selective and flawed and I do not use the term “legal” as a metric for ethics, nor for common good. It is sold to the highest bidder or to those with most influence; I hope you prove me wrong in this, you have not to date.
Of other things deemed “legal” by the “law”….was my lawyer who (after charging me many thousands of dollars), told me to plead guilty to 44 trumped up charges, of which I blew 42 out of the water at slanted and corrupt hearing.
The one last “relevant” remaining charge out of the 44, was for the very same situation that the Board has recently ignored, and apparently now even the Ombudsman is happy to ignore. I am referring to the installation of a califont, installed contrary to the non mandatory NZ 5261 regs.
This ignoring of the complaint made by the “ Highgate’s ”. An elderly couple who I have been told have resorted to taking anti stress medication because of their situation.
In another “legal” move by the Board-appointed, “impartial” investigator’s lawyer, it was deemed legal to send several sexually deviant past case notes to my home, under a blank package, to prove a point on probabilities. Done to prove a point in a plumbing context. It was read by my wife, whilst home on her own, which she found deeply, deeply disturbing. Do you think this is “Fairness for All”?
Attached is the very worst of these past precedents under “sick twisted past precedent”. Please don’t open this attachment if child sexual abuse offends you, as it does both my wife and I.
All of this is above is “legal”, but totally lacking in common sense and decency.
The Ombudsman’s Reply 1 Cert 345138 see attached
This is the cert actually mentioned by number in the DOL complaint for the explosion at the chipshop; please see attachment titled “DOL Complaint pg 1 &2 ”.
The Ombudsman shouldn’t be so much concerned with the fact the Board can’t provide an original copy of cert 345138 but why they can’t provide a copy, it is a nonsense to do so. I totally believe the original copy is beyond being produced by the Board, as are most shredded documents.
It is plainly obvious that if someone at the Board “lost” the cert or even put the original copy of cert 345138 through a shredder (perhaps after being asked for a copy of cert 345138 by the lawyer acting for the chipshop owner, a request made after the explosion at the said chipshop)….then it wouldn’t be available.
Of note, all the available carbon copies for cert 345138 show a complete lack of gas test results….that’s for leaks, yes gas leaks, the same type of gas leak that caused the explosion.
But the Ombudsman doesn’t feel the need to look at this?….. because it was “properly investigated by the Board”….is this the same investigation that ignored/withheld damning evidence and ignored huge conflicts of interest…….For example ignoring the sale of a third gas hose, the very hose that actually caused the explosion, sold long after I left the employ of Darnley….or was there another investigation that you are aware of ?
This original copy of cert 345138, is for the very last work at the site of a near fatal explosion, and it goes missing?..... And is then denied as having been ever received by the Board, by one of the Boards lawyers.
The Board made this statement when an electrical copy appears on the fox pro system….this is where your concern should lay. I ask you in all fairness what would be the legal ramification s for the Board if they accepted an incomplete legal document, a “gas safety cert” that lacked a record for a test for leaks….but it then exploded?
I know of many more of these certs missing important information, the Board claimed that these too were missing, but then miraculously found them when I went to the gas suppliers and obtained photos of the carbon copies of these “missing” certs. How can you put your name to cock up of a situation of this magnitude, using your power of discretion to ignore it is beyond me?
It is a cover up….what more evidence other than the cert appearing on the FoxPro system do you need? For anyone to say it is the “only” evidence is….. (and I apologise for my use of a crude layman’s term, but I can think of no other phrase that grasps this situation with enough emphasis) …..Well it is nothing more than utter and total bollox. You need no other evidence, it was definitely received and it was conveniently “lost”.
What I am saying is, yes it is a good enough excuse not to produce the cert, but why is it missing, how did it go missing?…. after it appears on the fox pro system? Same number, address, appliances, everything the same…what would the odds be of this happening?....this isn’t the Bible Code.
Your office is charged with “Fairness for All”….Am I part of that “All”.
Was it fair for the Board to persecute me…after the Board (by their own written admission) receive a request for a dodgy, incomplete, unregistered cert 345138, which is missing the legal recording of a test for leaks, i.e. cert 345138 which was accepted by the Board…..this cert issued for the site of an explosion…… but then the Board reply to the blast victims lawyer that it was never registered 8 days after the explosion.
This denial was made when the owner was recovering in an intensive burns unit in Wellington, half way through his intensive care visit of two whole weeks.
But then the Board ignore Darnley’s involvement in the build up to the explosion at his hearing, this is the very guy who filled out cert 345138, even the carbon copies show his signature on cert 345138. Is this fair?
Tell me Mr Patterson….I was told before the hearing/investigation that John Darnley faced a charge for the explosion, but this charge didn’t make his hearing….your a legal expert…..how on earth does that happen?
Perhaps it was useful to the Board because this “duel suspect” charge FOR THE EXPLOSION was their reasoning on splitting our cases into two different hearings/investigations. So they could investigate us separately….think on that.
Of note I have good evidence, in letters from the Board….that they spent in excess of 220k chasing after me and less than 30k chasing Darnley, is that fair? Especially in light of the cert 345138 being signed by Darnley? Not to mention all the other ignored evidence.
All of cert 345138 is filled out in the name of John Darnley, who I had complained about for the 6 years previous to the explosion. I had complained about dodgy certs coving dodgy work. Was it fair to go after me in light of this cert 345138, mentioned in the very DOL complaint that sparked this mess off ?
If you could totally sum up my fears and reasons for my previous complaints, i.e. dodgy certs covering dodgy/dangerous work, this situation is it in a nut shell, but it was I that was pursued by a conflicted and biased Board appointed investigator….I ask you is this fair?
It appears the Ombudsman Office wants to make my issue concerning cert 345138, all about the Board’s inability to be able to produce an unobtainable cert, this is a given and not my complaint. I actually believe them in this.
My original complaint is for fairness, in that the Board persecuted me in the face of this admitted to evidence, admitted to in writing by the Board.
Is it fair that the NZ Public are put at risk in the knowledge of this badly administered FoxPro system?
I bring your attention to a press release by Phil Routhan, the ex Board member and CEO of the Board. See attached titled “A former chief exec”.
I admit it does appear that Mr Routhan’s comments made on the state and mismanagement of the PGDB’s FoxPro cert system is a manipulation of a situation for his own ends, in trying to keep/reclaim his job. But please remember he was very, very informed and had a huge amount of access to the FoxPro system and had a lot of experience in the trades. It is reprehensible that it happened under his watch and even worse that he held on to it for his own ends, but that does not make it untrue, I believe he would not have made these claims if they were unsubstantiated.
I agree with Mr Routhan’s comments about the danger, and have been trying air these concerns for well over a decade, BEFORE the explosion.
I think the Ombudsman and copied in ministers owe it to the NZ public to push to have this looked in to, this would be fair.
Ombudsman Reply 2 Highgate complaint see attached
These people actually complained about fumes entering their home, but the Board has, to the best of my knowledge, refused to act.
The Highgate’s complaint was made after a califont was fitted closer than advised by the measurements in the non mandatory table in NZ 5261, table 16. Their califont is much closer than the califont which is the sole basis for my last but one charge, with the last and final charge disappearing for signing this job off, is this fair? It is inconsistent.
Of note, I do not believe this is the reason for the fumes entering the Highgate’s home. I believe it is because the flue issues into a more enclosed area, with a lack of cross ventilation.
But this very situation with the Highgate’s is the very reasoning the Board went in my local paper and slated me after my hearing and made the comments in the attachment above “califont shortcomings”. Which point of view is relevant; both views can not be applicable.
This one and only charge that the Board found me “guilty” of, stating in that press release I didn’t have a comprehension of fumes entering the building….but after making this press release they ignore another much closer install of a similar califont, that the owners actually complained about. Is this fair?
Of Note, the owner of the califont in my situation never in six years had a problem, never complained nor smelt fumes, but when someone does complain, i.e. the Highgate’s, the Board ignore it. Does this seem fair to you?
This “califont” charge is the ONLY charge left out of the 44 charges, which lost me my business and reputation and was the only charge that “stuck” as a result of terrorising me and my wife….is this fair?
Again it appears that the Ombudsman’s office is ignoring my real complaints and trying to “edit” it down to a point in law for an OIA request. I came to your office for fairness.
Ombudsman Reply 3 legionnaires’ risk see attached
This is probably the reply that disturbs me the most.
The Board do have powers to enter a property if it is deemed unsafe, this statement by the Board simply isn’t true, it may be difficult but not impossible. It is in the Act for those who would want to look for it, I have seen it.
I saw this system started in this dangerous manner (which is first hand), and I have a collaborating witness that this is how this lethal system was finished, so the way I see it is you have a first hand witness (me) backed up with an independent secondary witness (my old apprentice), this should be enough to at least go look at it. You have a schematic, the cert and one of my other correspondence see attached. I have even told the coroner and now the Ombudsman, and the Prime Minister and other Ministers.
To check if this C/H system is life threatening, is as easy as going to the address, looking at how many water heaters are on site, then turning off the water supply to each of the appliances, one at a time. If, when the central heating unit is isolated….the hot water goes off…..then you have cross contamination, this is a huge legionnaires’ risk, and potentially deadly. I am happy to do this check and go with a Board member, we can take water samples too if needed. I want to be wrong, but I have seen nothing to show me I am wrong.
To ignore this on a point of law is ludicrous and shameful. If anyone is hurt by this dangerous system my conscience is clear and anyone I warned will have blood on their hands. I have attached a lot of info for your office on this, you are informed.
Is it fair for the next occupiers to shower their kids or elderly in this stagnant shower? These new people would think it is signed off by a certifying gasfitter endorsed by the PGDB…how could they know how dangerous it is?
Ombudsman Reply 4 570 blank certs see attached
Again it appears that the Ombudsman is missing the direction of my real complaint and trying to make it a loosely involved point of law on an OIA request.
According to Mr Pedersen “This matter is still before the Board”…. doesn’t that sound odd to you. Some 4 years later, it’s still before the Board?
This signing of these 570 blank certs is the situation that led to all the sites of all my charges, excluding the exploding chipshop, being sent letters that gave people the impression that I was issuing illegal certs in Northland. A place I have never even visited.
These letters were so badly conceived that they were apologised for by the Board, see attached “Apology for Kern’s letters”, and “Mot High PGDB letter”, for an example of just one of the letters, sent to the local high school….this is the letter that finally killed my business….. is this fair?
These insipid, untrue and inaccurate letters gave all the sites of my “extra” charges, the impression that I was capable of issuing illegal documents, prejudicing all these sites. Is this fair?
Is this the level of investigation to which you refer to as “proper” in using your discretion in ignoring my complaints? Because if it is… I would question your take on “fairness” and “proper”. Please provide me with any other investigations which you use to base this use of “discretion” on.
Is it fair that I had this happen to me, but the person who is in all probability is responsible for this OTHER dangerous situation, potentially has his case still before the Board?
This signing of 570 blank certs was a very dangerous and irresponsible way to act, but the Board are so “not” concerned that it takes them over 4 years to tackle this (if they have acted at all), un-yet the Board, when it comes to me, were so concerned and so quick to act that they “added” it to my situation…with an untrue inaccurate letter…..straight away….. is this fair?
Your motto is “Fairness for All”…..I am just not seeing any fairness and believe I have not received any.
In three of these instances mentioned above in your replies, I have been the person singled out for a witch-hunt mentality while the guilty go free, the other one of the four …. I can’t even get someone to go check at the legionaries risk dwelling.
I feel that each of these instances above actually go toward proving I was persecuted unfairly and targeted, while the dangerous, uncaring incompetents’ go unhindered and un-investigated. This is forgetting all the evidence of the persecution that was unearthed at my hearing and ignoring the fraud that was also unearthed with yet another manipulation of certs.
The people who you are relying on at the Board, telling you it would “not be useful” to get to the bottom of this, have everything to hide, and to not look into this is to be party to them and their cover up.
I ask you in all fairness…
Who was ultimately responsible for the person who entered and accepted the incomplete cert 345138 into the fox pro system? Using this part of the same Board system, utilising the FoxPro and data management systems, this would show if someone went looking for this cert 345138, perhaps when the lawyer for the exploding chipshop requested all copies of certs for the exploding chipshop….who pulled the original copy of 345138 from the records? Who might have put it through the shredder? It is a misnomer to make this all about whether the Board can produce a potentially destroyed legal document. I actually believe them when they say they can’t produce it. Is it fair or even legal to shred a legal document?
Why is it that the califont involved in my situation deserves a public press release/warning, made after my persecution (not a typo), where the occupier had never complained? All done while ignoring the blatant evidence and the reality of how the fumes actually act….but then a califont installed nearer, with an actual compliant made by the occupiers of fumes entering….how can the “Highgate’s ” califont be ignored while “mine” was acted upon? Is this fair?
Why not go look at the potentially lethal central heating system legionnaire risk? Actually in reality make sure it’s safe? Why not check and double check that the system is safe? It is a roll of the dice not to, gambling with the lives of anyone who uses the shower at that address. All you have to loose is having to live with saving someone’s life or proving me wrong. Is it because Darnley installed and certified this system?
How can someone who issued 570 certs, which were signed and blank with no idea what was to be installed…..which were (according to the Board’s own press release) 90% non compliant with 16 very dangerous sites….this same person also apparently said he checked them all too to boot…..but someone involved in this case….still have his case before the Board? How does that happen?
To make this a legal point of law on OIA releases is to miss the whole point of my complaints and my request for fairness.
The Board have ignored blatant evidence and ruined my business and reputation, done at a risk to the public. The situations mentioned in your four letters of reply actually add to backing this claim and do not detract anything from this claim.
At no point has anyone proved my claims incorrect or to be untrue, but have only clouded the issue with the “law”, while ignoring the real facts.
You may want to look at the handwriting samples that I have had checked over. Please see “Handwriting expert opinion” and “In my unprofessional opinion” in attachments. These samples are taken from the actual job card for the fryers that caused the explosion and a signed sample of Darnley’s hand from a gas cert, made available to the Board but not acted on. How fair is that?
Darnley appears on the face of it to have denied his own handwriting to the so called “impartial” investigator….is this the same “proper” investigation that you rely on in your use of discretion in not addressing my case? The only investigation I am aware of was biased, flawed and slanted. The investigator granted Darnley his full certifying license with no apprenticeship served….is this the “proper” investigation to which you refer?
Yours Sincerely Paul Gee.
-
As chief executive and registrar, it was Mr Routhan's responsibility to monitor the process for checking gas certificates and after he left, the board had reviewed all gas certificates.
Ad Feedback
"We reiterate that Mr Routhan's allegations relating to unsafe gas installations have been fully investigated and discredited and we have confidence in our gas certification processes."
- The Dominion Post
I found many,many dodgy certs since this statement was made...in the relatively small amount I asked to get copies of....loads were missing very important info.....
What do you think these people will do to you to protect them selves? remember customers will have carbon copies of all this and the Board have sold 1000's and 1000's of them......are you ready to bend over and assume the position for their mismanagement?
It wasn't long after this statement that the Board had to add a disclaimer that it wasn't an accurate copy.....
If I told such an inaccurate statement I would be branded a liar.....think on that
-
Think about it, most of us took no photos when this very badly run cert system was set up....and then driven like a drunken monkey in a circus.
So some guy decides to move the free standing fire from one side of his living room to the other....does all the gas work with the tools lent from some supplier, because he bought all the fittings there.....
Blows his own house up, or gases his family......how do you prove that he moved the fire....please don't say the change in pipe...the Board dismissed a whole different colour pipe in my case!
What if your old boss was doctoring your certs, like mine....and it kills someone? I could very easily be facing a manslaughter charge....think on it. Who is going to come to your aid.....if you don't get behind Wal and the Feds NOW, then you will have lost the best chance we have ever had.
And now they are going to do this to builders.......FFS really?
-
And look at the gas cert system now.....it is a joke you can print off and put in your house, no carbon copies, just a printer and a laptop....
So is a gasfitter now a bloke with a phone, ute, a dog and a laptop/printer.....they have made our once proud trade a joke
-
hi guys, totally agree Badger and where can any tom,dick or harry a get cert form from then fill it in and maybe find a licenced guys name? from the boards own web site how stupid is that to let anyone download cert forms? beats me, cheers
-
Exactly Robbo.....I was threatened with a handwriting expert when it suited their agenda...and I had even after tried to complain about dodgy certs for years before it came out in the explosion....I got heaps of evidence on this too...THEY STILL WENT AFTER ME!
But I had to get my own handwriting experts in to check the guy they are still to this day protecting....but they won't look at it, even the new guys at the Board, who say publically they are here to do the right thing.....
Oh was that like other public statements like the one below for example...about checking the cert system and being happy with it.....THEN putting an accuracy disclaimer on it and THEN getting it taken off you??
How about all those electronically entered certs done with just your pass word, no personal handwriting, brought in because of the cock up of the paper cert system (how many of you have totally kept that password to yourself, or used an easy to remember, easy to guess password?)....or let the office girl do the cert entry.....so that system got canned, because they f****ed that up too......don't forget we funded this malarkey....
And now coming to a life near you.....
...... WE HAVE THE "OPTIONAL" SYSTEM WITH WEIRD AND WONDERFUL WAYS JOBS ARE JUDGED FOR ACTUALLY EVEN BOTHERING TO REGISTER OFFICIALLY, OR YOU CAN JUST DO NEW INSTALLS AND KEEP THEM UNDER YOUR BED...WITH A CERT NUMBER WHICH CAN BE MADE UP, WITH NO SEQUENCE TO THE "OTHER CERTS IN THE BOOK" AVAILABLE TO ANYONE ......WITH A LICENSE NUMBER WHICH CAN BE ACCESSED BY ANYONE, WRITTEN NOT IN A STOCK STANDARD WAY EITHER, YOU CAN MAKE YOUR OWN FORMAT UP IF YOU LIKE, LAST TIME I CHECKED.....
You have seen how I was shafted, set up as a scape goat and put into a position of guilty until proven innocent (while they slander and lie about me before my trial)......the present Board know ALL about all this....AND DO NOTHING....SO I TAKE IT THEY ARE HAPPY WITH IT....AND SO WILL BE HAPPY FOR IT TO HAPPEN TO ANYONE IN THE FUTURE?
So next f**** up they have, and judging by the new system, they will have one, PROBABLY LOTS... (more than likely you will suffer the consequences)....they just change the goose at the front of the formation and continue in the desired direction....
They have had a massive impact on me and my family.....
Who do you think they will protect....their predecessors and their own system...are little old you out on your own....I was a president of Nelson Master Plumbers....so it comes down to who your are more connected than....after my hearing the Master Plumbers went after me again....(but that's another story)
How do you think you will do?
-
You'll see attached the letter that told all the sites of my additional charges I was issuing illegal certs in Northland....
this is the letter that finally killed my business....
this site was proven at the hearing that what I was saying for two years was true....their "star" witness from the school said if she had seen the photo that I provided "she would never had signed the statement" which was written for her...like all the other witness's....
oh and they changed the charges just weeks out so they could better fit me up.....
Now never mind that it wasn't enough to send this letter....but they were trying to get me to pay for the "defects" to be repaired.....never mind it was probably my old boss was the one who was responsible for it.....as it was his firm who installed the cyl cage after I did the initial install
But I show you this, because...under the customer guarantee's act we are liable to fix any defects....according to the Board....
Now who pays for the defective cert system? and the defective investigation and witch-hunt I endured?
-
Oh yes I have never been to Northland....but someone who was responsible for this....well his case is still before the Board.....hmmm funny that!
-
In their own words its normal practice to send child sexual abuse case note in a plumbing context....so as a heads up guys...if or when this dirt comes after you tell your wife or office staff not to open the mail from the Board....see attached
I think it reflects more there mettle to sink to any low to win an "argument".....I believe it was done to intimidate me.....
People wonder why I am spewing and will NEVER let this go.
-
Here's a good one and a recent one.....
I asked for some info by means of an OIA request....I was quoted an obscene amount of money, so I asked for a break down of costs......
Apparently the first quote was wrong!
Some documents were apparently "duplicated"......and so the new price was less..... with some of the originally quoted "documents" not included.....
They have sent duplicate documents before.....hmmm I wonder?
-
Hi Paul I hope you are sending them a bill for all the work that you have done to clear your name. They have got a dam cheek to ask for payment they should just hand the papers over, good luck mate
-
Cheers Robbo......another night missed while the wife watches a film and I am tippy tapping on the lappy....
Sent tonight.....
Mr Sawyers,
By way of an OIA request please can I get a full copy of Darnley’s file that I requested some time ago, the one that is referred to as “extensive” by Mr Uren at my hearing, not the part file that has been recently supplied nor the very limited file sent by Mr O’Connell, which has some info that is missing from the one you sent, see attached.
Please see attached my original OIA request mentioned in a Board reply. You will notice this was back in April and the time limit of 20 working days expired some time ago. Please don’t send any duplicate info that was recently already sent.
Also by way of another OIA request, please can you tell me which documents were duplicated in the recent file release that you supplied, I can not make the pages add up to 41, please can you clarify by means of showing me which ones were duplicated.
Also in this correspondence my complaints have still yet to be answered and I am still to be told how Darnley managed to get his full certifying/craftsman license.
Please can you also explain why 220k was spent on my case and less than 30k on investigating Darnley, and also how could the charge Darnley faced for the Milton Street explosion not make his hearing? As mentioned in attachments Doc 7 Disappearing charge.
Thank you.
Paul Gee.
-
The shear arrogance of this letter is astounding......please explain PGDB
-
What changed Mr Smith, see attached in a letter to Patsy Wong and another sent just before my hearing.....Patsy had to resign because of......
Pansy Wong has announced her resignation from Parliament saying the row over her use of her travel perk has been an unfair distraction to the Government and she wants to concentrate on her family.
God we have had a run of "right honourable" people.....
These letters were written before my kangaroo court, the Board had a 100% success record in getting a conviction, which they openly gloated over....so Mr Smith has never been in a more influential position to sort this mess....what changed?
-
In Nick Smiths own words......the explosion could have been averted if they had listened to my warnings!!!!
But it was me who had my wife terrorised, lost my business and reputation and time with my two young awesome sons.....
-
I'll let you know what Nick says.....
Hi Nick,
I have proven that the PGDB did set me up as a scape goat, the Board to this very day are still protecting Darnley, I have further proof that it was in all probability Darnley who fitted the fryers and denied his own handwriting to the non impartial investigator, not to mention the sale of the very hose that caused the explosion….after I left his employ.
My so called hearing was a sham, biased and conflicted. Please can you explain what has changed in your opinion to my situation since your writing of these letters?
If anything your opinions in these letters have actually been proven, beyond doubt in my mind.
I look forward to your reply, I would be happy to visit your caravan if you would like to discuss these letters further.
Yours Sincerely Paul Gee
-
The replies to this email sent this morning will give you an indication of how much things have changed and what you can expect if they go after you.....
From: Paul & Emma Gee [mailto:gspservices@xtra.co.nz]
Sent: Saturday, 24 October 2015 8:05 a.m.
To: 'john.key@national.org.nz'; 'Info'; 'Registrar'; 'complaints@pgdb.co.nz'; 'communications@pgdb.co.nz'; 'Janis Adair'; 'Andrew.McCaw@ombudsmen.parliament.nz'
Cc: 'Wal Gordon'; 'Allan Day'; 'Colleen Upton'; 'Lyndon Moffitt'; 'john.key@national.org.nz'; 'Andrew Little'; 'Ann Hunn'; 'Nick 4 Nelson'; 'paul@paulhenry.co.nz'; 'phil.twyford@parliament.govt.nz'; Craig Hooper - Coolhead Productions Ltd; 'Office of Sarah Dowie MP'; 'probono@equaljusticeproject.co.nz'; 'Paul Luxton'; 'PGDB Competency Based Licensing'; 'bryngee@hotmail.com'; 'Brendan Horan'; 'b.english@ministers.govt.nz'; 'Barry Forman'; 'clayton.cosgrove@parliament.govt.nz'; 'jacinda.ardern@parliament.govt.nz'; 'johnscarry@xtra.co.nz'; 'Neal and Joan Gauntlett'; 'news@tvnz.co.nz'
Subject:
Dear Prime Minister,
……and others copied in.
Please take the time to read this email it involves corruption that risks the NZ public’s health and safety. This is but the tip of a very large grimy ice burg. To not act on this, is to roll the dice with the people of this country’s safety, I ask you to call me on this. I believe the PGDB have and are trying to cover up a very badly administered gas certificate and licensing system.
Some one nearly died in an explosion and even though I had tried to warn about dodgy certs covering dodgy work for 6 years before, I was singled out….I believe singled out BECAUSE I had tried to warn about this.
My wife and I were subjected to a premeditated witch-hunt and have lost our business and our reputation and we were financially forced to sell our “only just” renovated, mortgage free very modest home in a very modest area, we owned all our vehicles and had no debt what so ever other than our monthly account at the plumbing suppliers. Our goal was to enjoy our young family.
I had spent many years and a huge amount of money re-qualifying my trade, re-sitting exams and practical assessments, because even though NZ had a shortage of gasfitters and plumbers advertised on the immigration lists, very little of my fully trained apprenticeship was recognised by the Board.
Our business finally died when the Board sent out a letter to all the additional sites of charges to an explosion, one of these letters had most impact, it was to the local high school in the then main centre of business. This letter said I was issuing illegal gas certs in Northland; I have never been to Northland.
The Board have since apologised for this letter but the damage has been done, the Board also offered us $500.00 for this too, but I told them to donate this money to Ronald McDonald house in CHCH, I don’t believe they did this.
After the Board’s biased and slanted hearing I was forced to work away, my wife and young sons spent the first 16 weeks of my absence living in a caravan with no running drinking water, nor a flushing toilet, my wife emptied the caravan toilet cassette at the local i-site and refilled water bottles for them to have drinking water. She never moaned once to me about this. My kids were toddlers.
In fact she went pretty quiet for the months leading up to the hearing and just after the hearing, she went quiet just after receiving child sexual abuse case notes to prove a point in a plumbing context, after all we had been through she found it very threatening and I found her hysterical. She opened the unmarked package at home with no indication of the filth inside on its outside wrapper and very little clear explanation of why it was sent on the inside….After all we had been through she thought, in her hysteria, that it was some sort of threat. I found her this way when I came home. We had had the Board hanging over our head for over 2 years.
After this kangaroo court, I worked away for two years, and lost two years out of our young son’s lives. I spent this two years going from job to job, living for months at a time in a caravan on an industrial site, bed and breakfasts and spent months living in a workshop, depending on where I could find work.
My trade was stolen from me, even though I am a fully qualified certifying/craftsman plumber and gasfitter with a limited trade electrical license I struggle to find a decent employer within my trade and have worked for two years as a trainee in a totally different industry, where I am reminded daily that I am new and know little about this new industry.
My “punishment” is far longer and deeper than the Board’s official one dealt out after the hearing, the hearing where the hearing chair shut it down just as I was going to go 100% innocent, shut down by the friend and confidant of the so called impartial investigator, the same impartial investigator who gifted my ex boss, John Darnley his full certifying/craftsman licence with no formal apprenticeship served. Of Note this last charge out of 44 charges laid has recently been ignored in another case, so even by the Board’s own reckoning I did nothing wrong what so ever.
This is the same boss I had complained about for the six years before the explosion, complaining about dodgy certs covering dangerous work, complained for 6 years before the explosion.
This explosion was caused by a third hose sold to supply two fryers, this third hose was sold because the initial one had split before, it was sold after I worked there. Please see “3rd hose receipt” and “letter of period of employment”…..please compare the dates.
John Darnley denied his own handwriting on the job card for these fryers, please see attachments. I say this because two people have checked one sample of the hand writing on this job card for the fryers that caused the explosion and a signed sample of Darnley’s handwriting. One of these people is a very experienced investigator and the other the only hand writing expert in NZ, if media releases are to be believed. Please see in attachments.
All this evidence is available to the Board, but they appear not to want to go after the person that all the evidence point to.
This apparent approach has been from the get go, the Dept of Labour actually complained about a certain certificate 345138 in their complaint made after the explosion, see attached.
Now the Board claim that this cert 345138 was never received by them, see attached.
But the so called impartial investigator says he saw the original, see attached….which is true?
There is also a copy of cert 345138 on the Boards Fox Pro system. Of Note ALL copies available show a lack of a record of a test for gas leaks….at the site of an explosion, caused by a gas leak.
I tried to prevent a situation for 6 years before an explosion nearly killed someone, a situation that I now am still paying for daily, I am 100% innocent.
I have gone to the Ombudsman and waited over two years for him to use his discretion and not investigate it, I do not believe this is fair and feel that the word “An Illusion of” should be added to their motto of Fairness for “All”.
No body will look at the legionnaire’s case I have also tried for years to get addressed, please see attached. This address is in the Minister responsible for this Nick Smith, this all happened in his constituency, the people who voted him in, were and I believe still are at risk from this mans work.
Well now you all know just some of the cover up and corruption that has and I believe is still done at a risk to the NZ public. And the huge cost it has had on an innocent family that came to NZ for a better life for our kids.
I bring your attention to a press release by Phil Routhan, the ex Board member and CEO of the Board. See attached titled “A former chief exec”.
I admit it does appear that Mr Routhan’s comments made on the state and mismanagement of the PGDB’s FoxPro cert system is a manipulation of a situation for his own ends, in trying to keep/reclaim his job. But please remember he was very, very informed and had a huge amount of access to the FoxPro system and had a lot of experience in the trades. It is reprehensible that it happened under his watch and even worse that he held on to it for his own ends, but that does not make it untrue, I believe he would not have made these claims if they were unsubstantiated.
I agree with Mr Routhan’s comments about the danger, and have been trying air these concerns for well over a decade, BEFORE the explosion.
I think the Ombudsman and copied in ministers owe it to the NZ public to push to have this looked in to, this would be fair.
An open transparent independent inquiry is well over due, please before anyone gets hurt.
If you request, and provide me an email that will accept, and I am not exaggerating here, a massive amount of evidence I will provide to back these claims. Because of the corrupt actions inflicted on my family by these people I am not in a financial position to take this to court, but I still have my voice. Please listen.
I ask you Dr Smith, with all due respect, what has changed in your opinion expressed in these letters attached, if anything your fears have been substantiated and proven beyond doubt, I am still the hard working, honest responsible man whom you met, what has changed for you? If anything now that you are the very minister responsible for this portfolio and its is in your constituency…. there is no-one better placed to deal with this corruption.
Yours Sincerely Paul Gee
-
....this is the receipt for the hose that actually caused the explosion, compare the dates to the period of my employment....
I got this from the Board's own evidence for my hearing......
-
And to the Board and Mr Sawyers....I will happily get on with my life when I get it back and you put the NZ health and safety first and foremost with integrity and credability....but until then I ain't going anywhere.....
-
You would think that any of the people copied in or the Board would be horrified at the very risk or hint of corruption......
But the Board's new registrar is of the opinion that it didn't happen when he was there so it doesn't count.....but it is a continuous membership Industry Board.....which has celebrated it 100th year of being.....not its 100th new member nor 100th incarnation.....
To ignore it is to cover it up....and be party to that cover up and corruption....I believe anyone who ignores corruption is corrupt.....Have a look at the people who definitely know about it.....you judge.
And you can be assured if they ignore this then there is a good chance of it happening to you in the future.
-
Now don't forget someone nearly died and spent two weeks in a burns unit, while they covered it up....
I know of at least one other potentially life threatening home, interfered with by this dodgy bastard....he was very busy in my area for a long time too....
I have seen loads of dodgy certs and the Boards own fox pro system carries a accuracy disclaimer.....
Now the gas cert system is a shambles......
What's the odds on you running this gauntlet next? Pretty feckin high I would say....
But the Registrar thinks your all happy with it because you didn't turn up at his little tour....
-
From the Board's news letter issued in March 2009, the chipshop exploded in April 2009(within the weeks after making this statement)
....the so called "non registration" by Darnley of cert 345138 was also discovered in April 2009(this is for the pizza oven, the last work done at the site of the explosion)....
this same Tony Hammond, mentioned below, is the investigator appointed by the Board, he is the same guy who gifted Darnley his full license.....and is the same guy who only showed the 11 or so photos, out of over 100 forensic photos taken....the ones not used showed the pipe had been moved (as evidenced by the f****ing holes in the wall from the clips).....
Of note out of the 11 photos used by Hammond was for the hose for pizza oven of cert 345138.
Replacement for
Gas Appliances –
Tony Hammond
The Gas Regulations (REG 24) define, amongst others, that the
following require certification:
Extensions, additions and replacements to existing gas installations
Alterations that result in repositioning of pipework or changes to the
operation of the installation
It is worth noting that an installation is defined in the Gas Act as
“including a gas appliance”.
Therefore, replacement of one appliance by another, even if very
similar, requires certification.
Further weight is added to the argument when one considers that
even a “like for like” replacement needs to be adjusted to ensure
gas pressure and aeration are set appropriately, the connections are
gastightness and the safety devices operate at the right levels; that
is, the appliance needs to be commissioned in accordance with clause
1.6.7 of NZS 5261.
-
the connections are
gastightness and the safety devices operate at the right levels; that
is, the appliance needs to be commissioned in accordance with clause
1.6.7 of NZS 5261.
So Hammond says this in the PGDB newsletter.....BUT.....
....is ok with Darnley selling a third hose after the initial installation (sold after I left), replacing the first hose because it split because someone (definitely not me and in all probability Darnley) lowered the pipe work AND added a pizza oven AND changed all the gas cylinder installation (as evidenced by the receipts and photos).....AND THEN not registering it with the Board....BUT issuing all the carbon copies out to the gas supplier (who was also Darnley) and the customer....
Now the original of cert 345138 was seen by the investigator (according to his own report, see attached)..... and it appears on the Board's website (see attached)....but when the poor blast victims lawyer goes to the Board with the carbon copy in his hand and askes for the original....its gone! claimed by the Board within days of the blast to have never been received.... who's not telling the truth.....either way I was dealing with and being shafted by a person or people who dealing untruths or are so incompetent/hopeless that they see things that are not there....
IT APPEARS THAT THE LAST PERSON TO SEE CERT 345138 WAS TONY HAMMOND...is he the shredder dun dun derrrrr!....the same guy who lobbied for the self cert system and gifted Darnley his license......Darnley is the guy who showed the flaws in the system that Hammond lobbied for.....empowered by the Board's flippant issuing of a license, endorsed by Hammond's oral exam...gifted to Darnley....is this impartial, is it f****.....please explain to me how this guy, Hammond, can (and he never did) act with impartiality..... without implicating himself......All done against my complaints about this...
BUT MARTIN SAWYERS THINKS I SHOULD MOVE ON, GET ON WITH MY LIFE.....give it back mate and I will....I want nothing more....
Of Note.... here is the "check" that we have lost....the carbon copy, 4 independently issued, but identical hard paper copies.....with handwriting to check its authenticity.....now we have passwords and printers....
If they are willing to ignore and cover this up.....what will you get in the future?
It is a f****ing shambles......
-
Look at the dates on this, the chippy exploded on the 9th April 2009......So the non registration of the cert 345138 was known days after the explosion......cert 345138 is actually mentioned by number in the Dept of Labour complaint, see attached.....
I asked for a copy of the original of cert345138 in the days after my hearing (3rd 4th and 5th of May 2011)......the thing is you don't see a half of the tirade levelled against you until your in the dock.....then after the kangaroo court adjourns......you can't adduce any new evidence.....where's that "dealing with unreasonable people" policy gone....
........AND DARNLEY FACES A CHARGE......FOR THE EXPLOSION......BUT THE CHARGE (PERHAPS IT IS LIVING WITH THE ORIGINAL OF CERT 345138)....... IT ALL DISSAPEARS.......POOF.....ALL UP IN A CLOUD OF PICTSHEE DUST.....
I lost everything.....but as Martin Sawyers said (new registrar, same attitude) .......I am just after money......
From: Melanie Phillips [mailto:melanie@pgdb.co.nz]
Sent: Wednesday, 11 May 2011 4:13 p.m.
To: Paul & Emma Gee
Cc: Wal Gordon
Subject: RE: Paul Gee
Hi Paul
Please see attached Belinda’s file note of her request to John Darnley for a copy of certificate 345138. This occurred after she was contacted by lawyers acting for the owner on 17 April 2009 requesting copies of all gas certificates relating to 136 Milton Street.
Also attached is a copy of the certificate received which, as you will see, is of quite poor quality.
Please let me know if you need any more information.
Regards
Mel
From: Melanie Phillips[mailto:melanie@pgdb.co.nz]
Sent: Wednesday, 11 May 2011 3:22p.m.
To: Paul & Emma Gee; WalGordon
Subject: RE: Paul Gee
Hi Paul
I have just gone back through the file and can confirm that the Board never received a pink copy of certificate345138. The only copy the Board has is a photocopy of the certifier’s copy, which you produced as exhibit PG007 together with a copy of the gas suppliers copy.
I see notes from Belinda Greer on the file that the Board copy of certificate 345138 was received after the explosion in 2009, I think from the Department of Labour.
I’m sorry I can’t help you further.
Regards
Mel
So how did Hammond check the original copy of cert 345138, is he lying, senile, incompetent, delusional?
-
.....here's the final kick in the guts from the Board, I was living in a maintenance workshop, working in "NZ housing" projects in the North Island (horrendous).... and my wife was living in a caravan with no flushing toilet nor running drinking water, with my two lads who were toddlers.....
My girl went from a recently renovated mortgage free home....to a caravan.....
I was unblocking toilets and fixing taps for people who didn't work, while my wife was taking a bucket of shite to be emptied and collect drinking water at the local I-site...in front of the whole community....while the public read this pontificating bullshit in the local rag......
PRESS RELEASE | 7 November 2011
Nelson plumber and gasfitter ordered to undergo training
A Nelson plumber and gasfitter found guilty of professional shortcomings and unacceptable conduct has been ordered to undergo a course of training in a penalty decision issued by the Plumbers, Gasfitters and Drainlayers Board (PGDB) today.
The Plumbers, Gasfitters and Drainlayers Board found that Paul Gee breached the Plumbers, Gasfitters and Drainlayers Act (1976) when he carried out gasfitting work on a house in Malvern Avenue, Nelson.
Due to Mr Gee’s personal and financial circumstances, the Board decided not to ask Mr Gee to pay a fine or contribute to the costs of the hearing.
Alan Bickers, chair of the PGDB, said:
“The Board takes its responsibilities in this area very seriously and the primary purpose of discipline is rehabilitative, not punitive.
“Discipline is an opportunity to identify and, where possible, promote the competence of registered tradesmen by identifying conduct which falls below the standard expected of a registered person.
“The Board was concerned by Mr Gee’s apparent lack of knowledge and appreciation of the applicable regulatory provisions for gasfitting, which exist to ensure the health and safety of the New Zealand public.
“While the Board understands that the disciplinary process can be stressful for parties, Mr Gee’s evidence at the hearing raised serious concerns about his understanding of some fundamental aspects of the gasfitting trade.”
In July, the PGDB decided the case against Mr Gee in relation to work carried out on six other properties in the Tasman Bay and Westport areas was not established.
The Department of Labour laid a complaint with the PGDB about the matter and the PGDB undertook its own investigation. As a consequence, a further six properties were also identified as potentially posing a risk to the health and safety of the public.
-
So Mr Sawyers......CEO/Registrar of a CONTINUOUS membership industry Board.....
Do you still stand by the statement.......( and more to the point....do you guys believe him......)
"I believe in a disciplinary system that is fair, risk based and proportionate".......
-
Have a look at a paper written by the "impartial" investigator.....the same guy who gifted Darnley his license...which officially empowered Darnley to install gas all over THE PLACE.....Darnley was also a member of NZIGE......
So people in the area not only thought Darnley was fully qualified, but event that he might be an engineer......funny because Darnley resigned from NZIGE the following month after the explosion.....
So how impartial is the interrogator? sorry investigator......the same guy who wrote this paper attached....the same guy who told me "to make sure my own house was in order before you dob people in" and the cert system is to big to fail"
For Hammond to investigate properly he would have to ignore the fact that because of him, Darnley was gifted his full certifying license.....and the cert system (that he lobbied for) was shown wanting by the very same person who he had gifted a license to.....resulting in an explosion.....
-
Here he is....Darnley resigning from NZIGE.........the explosion was 9th April 2009.........
-
I wonder why Darnley resigned?
If he was innocent of any wrong doing?
Bit co-incidental don't ya think?
-
......perhaps he thinks he is innocent because he didn't recognise his own handwriting on a job card....
-
Please remember that the Board still to this day has no one held responsible for a near fatal explosion........that laid a poor bugger in a burns unit for two weeks and ruined his business.......
So if the first person you target in an investigation proves his innocence....do you just stop there...ignoring blatant evidence?
Here's the handwriting for you to look at......you might as well have a look because the Board don't care.....
So the guy who didn't register the original copy for the cert 345138, the cert for the last work done at the site of an explosion....owned the company who sold the hose that caused the explosion(and probably fitted it), told the investigator he didn't recognise his own handwriting on the job card for the explosion, was untrained and had pervious incidents to his name...... with complaints received by me for six years before the explosion.....isn't of interest to the Board....not even today? Why is that?
Same guy who faced a charge for the explosion but it disappeared with no trial......
So they pinned it on me and now I can prove all this....I am to get on with my life (a life which I don't have and is still denied me).....
Mr Sawyers thinks I am just after money, perhaps that's why I "planned" all this is it Martin? FFS......
Do you know what really makes me laugh apparently I'm the problem........What, for showing this for what it is?
IT IS CORRUPTION AND A COVER UP.....AND SO IS ANYONE WHO ALLOWS IT TO CONTINUE.......
Come on....a quarter of a million dollars spent and no one held responsible, of OUR money.......220k on me and less than 30k of Darnley.......
I have done all the work for you, for free......now go and get the real culprit.......
-
Next is the four books of certs bought in my name with out my permission.....
On 10 November 2003, I attended a meeting with Darnley. At this meeting, I submitted a written statement outlining my safety concerns; this written statement was later provided to the Board.
On 13 November 2003, I was issued with a written warning by the manager for how I had expressed my concerns about safety to his son in law. In response to this written warning I indicated I would resign as soon as was practicable, I told him to shove his job up his f****ing arse.
On 14 November 2003, four books of non-transferable gas certificates were ordered, for the one and only time, by some one at the gas company. It was done in my name, without my knowledge.
On 19 November 2003, I gave two weeks notice and resigned from this gas company.
I later found out, after the explosion, that on the 4th March 2004, three months after I left, someone from this gas company, on this company’s letterhead, wrote a letter in my name to alter a gas certificate to the PGDB, which was apparently acted on.
I complained about this at the time.....as soon as I found out.......well before the explosion.......
-
If you look at the GST numbers and the cert numbers and take it for granted that the numbers run sequentially.........
The first ordered is the single book.....then the three other extra books are ordered.......with the application altered and faxed 14th November.....how does that happen.......
How does the two sets of receipts reflect the alteration to the initial application, that was faxed????
All known to the Board.
-
When I was in interview, I told Hammond about the books of certs.....he smugly looked at me and said.....
"but you paid for these with YOUR credit card"......
I replied "I have never owned a credit card".....he went pale, not in fear but in anger....I distinctly remember this......this is the reply he sent after this see attached....
And his take on it from his report attached.......
I knew nothing of this and took it that as it was his firm he was supplying the certs.....but then when I told Darnley in no uncertain terms to shove his job up his f****ing arse.....someone at Allgas goes and orders 4 books in my name, not all at once either but in haphazard way....
All known to the Board.....
These books of certs are what resulted in the accuracy disclaimer on their website....you will notice that cert 299748 is from the batch of of certs ordered in my name....all known to the Board.......
-
So how can they get my name from a paper copy which doesn't mention my name?
......because it was bought in my name....that's why......but no one has a problem with this.....
How are you all feeling now about the cert system that will be used to f**** you over?
-
The reason I couldn't resign straight away, straight after telling Darnley to shove his job.....was because my wife and I had just bought our first home and had just signed up for a mortgage.
I told Hammond all this, but it didn't make his report......funny that.....
-
So Mr Sawyers, do you still believe......I lost everything......
"I believe in a disciplinary system that is fair, risk based and proportionate".......
My kids tell that they believe in the tooth fairy too.....so they can pocket the money under their pillow.....sound familiar......lol....what a f****ing joke....
-
I think the Ron Patterson from the Ombudsman says it best.....in a key note speakers paper, attached......
First, what do I mean by evidence? My Oxford English dictionary tells me that the word comes via Old French from the Latin evidentia, meaning obvious to the eye or mind –from videre, to see.
This is revealing, since one of the most common criticisms of medical regulators when a licensed doctor has harmed patients, is that the board turned a ‘blind eye’ to the available evidence.
Try swapping "licensed doctor " with "gifted gas certifying licence gasfitter".....have a read of a paper issued by the Ombudsman who is to use his powers discretion in not looking at this wealth of evidence....where some one nearly died.....that's fair aye!
So what is it in terms of plumbing? Because Mr Patterson has been given a lot of evidence and has used his powers of discretion not to investigate......which to me an untrained in law layman seems a bit hypocritical...
"Fairness for Everyone".......perhaps an addition of "An Illusion of" could be added to this motto......
-
Any way..... back to the books of certs ordered in my name with out my permission....
I complained firstly, as soon as I left Allgas....see attachment letter to Singleton......then a year later when I employed a lawyer.....
look at the dates.....
-
But apparently I have over 1000 certs in my name....I could have had a look at $25 per certs.....
I didn't have 25 thousand dollars handy, so I never......
Belinda Greer if you remember was mentioned in the email from the Board lawyer saying that the pizza oven cert was never received.....perhaps some could ask her?
-
So according to the letter below, at the time of them writing this letter.... there are OVER a 1000 certs in my name......but if you add up the number of books ordered in my name it is about 60, even if you include the books ordered without my permission.
So guys you have legally binding certs in your name held by the Board, which they will most definitely use should you find yourself in strife with the Board, or if they decide to have strife with you, how many of you know for sure what's held in your name by the Board??, who's acted in your name (which the Board has no problem with).....how does that sit with you?
Perhaps the office manager or office receptionist, or anyone else who has access to your password or cert ordering system.....( or more recently access to your license number and a printer, which is the whole of NZ).......fancies a new gas fire and the muppet installing it kills people....do you think the Board or anyone else for that matter will bail you out for the manslaughter.....good luck with that.....just do your time with a smile on your face....
Remember it seems to come down to how well your connected...... not truth, evidence nor ethics, I was a past president of Master Plumbers.....but it appears I was trumped by Darnley....
The question is how connected are you.....who will trump you?
-
Dear Mr Gee
I am writing on behalf of the Prime Minister and Minister of Tourism, Rt Hon John Key, to acknowledge your email of 2 July 2015 concerning your issues with your complaint E80343. The Prime Minister will not be getting involved as he relies on his Ministers and or other experts to resolve such issues
Thank you for taking the time to write to the Prime Minister and share your views.
Yours sincerely
What do you do when the minister responsible Nick Smith, does nothing? The Ombudsman uses his powers of discretion not to investigate.........where do you go?
I have not seen one ounce of fair play.......
-
Remember Mr Smiths letters......
Well the last meeting I had with him.....he told me I had gone too far........
Gone too far......What in clearing my name......there is no limit on how far I will go to do that....
To me my name and reputation is worth more than power, money, position and influence.......what do you think these people who did this to me think of these things.....
-
I had tried to get this looked at for 6 years before someone nearly got killed in an explosion, I approached MP's, told my Master Plumber Assoc, told members at the two AGM'S I attended.
The explosion happened, the Board ignored blatant evidence, withheld photos that proved what I was saying (i.e. the pipe was lowered AFTER I installed it, the photos showed the bloody holes where the pipe WAS).....they still won't go after Darnley....spent 220k persecuting my wife and I, but spent less than 30k going after Darnley.
Right up until the hearing Nick Smith was backing me.....but when the hearing proved what I was saying....he totally backed off. I have waited over two years for the Ombudsman to "use his powers of discretion"...
I was lied about and publically humiliated.
Then the members of the of Master Plumbers who were part of this persecution, but lost their place on the Board, went after me for my outbursts about this corruption........so I left Master Plumbers. The could only "discipline" me if I was a member.....they had ignored the master plumber ethics and rules in going after me and being part of the Board's persecution.
I now work in an industry where I am new and I am reminded I am new every single working day, I had my trade stolen off me...I had put in 25 years....
But Martin Sawyers says I should put all this behind me and get on with my life....I haven't seen "my life" since April 2009.....if anyone sees "my life" I would love to know, tell him I been looking for him and I will happily have him back.
-
I can't go much higher.....please see below
Dear Mr Gee
I am writing on behalf of the Prime Minister, Rt Hon John Key, to acknowledge your email of 24 October 2015 concerning your request for a transparent, independent inquiry into the plumbing issues that have affected you and your employment. Please be assured your comments have been noted.
As the issue you have raised falls within the portfolio responsibilities of the Minister for Building and Housing, Hon Dr Nick Smith, your email has been forwarded on to their office for consideration.
Thank you for taking the time to write to the Prime Minister.
-
Nick Smith, wrote this letter 16th April 2011, the hearing was held 3rd to the 5th May 2011.......
Just three weeks before my kangaroo court where the evidence was withheld and the investigators mate who was chairing the hearing, closed down, etc etc....
What changed?
-
The thing is and this really bothers me....if this sort of corruption that I have experienced is all good with the people in power who know about it and have seen this evidence and have done nothing....
Well what bothers me is my case is relatively small in the scheme of things (although it is massive to my wife and I)......
What happens over the big stiff, the really important stuff?
-
"Install Bayonets and test".....that's all I did.....all the handwriting on this side of the job card, the back side, you'll notice there are no fryers.....this is my handwriting......
Then on the front of the job card there are two types of handwriting the hand at the bottom of the "appliances" field is mine......
But the handwriting at the top, the writing for the fryers ......well according to the only handwriting expert in NZ......well that's Darnley's.
Check it out.....the samples below in attachments....and the opinion below.....
This job card was shown to the "impartial" (lol....must mean dirty as f****) investigator......
All known to the Board, but it would not be useful to relook at my case......no I don't suppose being shown for being corrupt would be useful to you.....
How would you like to loose everything in this manner?
I have identified several similarities between the 2 scripts these included.
• Lower zone 'g' length and width of loop similar.
• Return stroke on Lower zone of 'g' crosses at the baseline.
• Minute hooks on the terminal stroke of 'N' in Nelson and 'F' in ' Fryer'.
• Occasional pen lifts and partial letter connections eg 'Blue' 'Nelson'.
• Constructional features of No 6 similar.
• Baseline alignment ascends, then descends, eg 'John' Nelson' 'Blue' 'seal'.
• Connecting strokes similar garland type. eg l and u in 'blue'. and a and w in 'Atawhai'
• Zero on '90' elongated similar to zero in '04'.
• Middle zone proportions and measurements in relativity to the Lower Zones.
• Pen pressure variable. Could be due to the type of pen used. Difficult to confirm on photocopys.
• Full stops heavy pressure ,both scripts showed a mix of dashed and curved.
• Slant on first stroke of '4' in 'GT45' and '26/4/04' similar at 70o reclined.
Opinion
It is highly probable that the 2 scripts were of common authorship.The author is a versatile writer who is capable of using or adjusting his script to suit his circumstances. Both scripts were written with a different writing instrument.The writing surface and the the authors emotional and personal or medical circumstances could have also affected the slight variation on the pictorial style of the script.
The above analysis is based on 2 short scripts on electronically submitted photocopys. More exemplars would be required to form a more definitive opinion.
-
Sent tonight....I'll let you know the reply.....
Mr Sawyers,
Please see a link to the “Plumbers Forum”
http://www.plumbers.co.nz/forum/fellow-practitioners-update/41/fellow-practitioner-issue-236-dated-12-december-2014/1810/msg10045#msg10045
This extensive body of evidence proves I was set up and the guilty have been allowed to walk by the Board.
I will take the cop out of “I am new don’t blame me”, that you are happy for the Board to have acted corruptly in the past and do not want to go after the guilty and you are willing to ignore blatant evidence in the process.
FYI…I have posted this email on this link.
I will post your reply on this link also, so please reply as though you are talking to the whole of the forum/the whole of the industry.
Yours Sincerely Paul
-
Mr Hammond at the first of the interviews with myself turned up with normal "black and white" copies of pink original certs, but done on pink paper.....this totally disguised the FACT that a lot, the exploding chip shop included, had all different types of ink colours all over the pink copies.
I tried several ways to get hold of the original copies, I was denied under different points of law or cost, but eventually after several attempts I got them....loads of the certs from my time at Allgas were full of different colour inks, the only writing of mine was the signature.....bare in mind I had complained about dodgy certs for 6 years before the explosion and I discovered this ink issue BEFORE the hearing....
The investigators response was to go at look for "other jobs of concern"...he claims to have checked only 10%......but I have another letter from a board lawyer that says he checked three years worth of my work.
Now according to the investigator himself both the fryers were dropped off on the 24th of June 2003, but the certs "test date" is for the 15th, with the 15 in blue ink and the rest of the date in black, there are other blue ink entries too....this was of no concern to Mr Hammond what so ever...
By co-incidence the date of signature is My wife's birthday, the 26th June and we went away for it, it is a Thursday. But I couldn't prove that I was not at work that day....Mr Hammond didn't care, he said the only important part was the signature (which was mine)....he then threatened me with a hand writing expert to check the signature.....remember the job cards for this explosion........the ones below....Hammond had them too in his possession, he could have had those checked by a handwriting expert, but he didn't....
Darnley faced a charge for this explosion......but it disappeared.......no one has explained this to me yet.....
Here's the problem....your guilty......guilty as a guy caught carrying a TV out of a strangers window in the Board's eyes.....if you can not prove it, it ain't so....they will not believe you.....
Have a think of the certs you were signing back in 2003.....how much proof do you have.....
I have ALL this proof and the "Fairness for All" Ombudsman.....uses his discretion to ignore it.....how will you go if its you or the Board, or one of their mates or if the "other guy" can trump your connections......
-
You'll notice that the job card for the explosion......has two sets of pressure test results, the first one of higher pressure....that's my hand writing......this is what you do when your testing THE PIPE WORK ONLY.....
Then you will see there is a second test result, at a lower pressure, not in my hand writing but in keeping with the handwriting of the appliances handwriting......
This lower pressure is consistent with the appliances being added to an EXISTING pipe work......add to this the sale of the third hose sold moths after I left.....add to this the un-registered cert for the pizza oven installed long after I left....
ADD TO THIS DARNLEY FACED A CHARGE BUT IT DISSAPEARED....BEFORE HIS HEARING......
Do you think there was justification in going after me....the guy who warned about this for 6 years.....
-
It just simply isn't in my DNA to let this go.....
Hi Nick
Please can you let me know if you are to act on this body of evidence I have posted on this link below?
http://www.plumbers.co.nz/forum/fellow-practitioners-update/41/fellow-practitioner-issue-236-dated-12-december-2014/1810/msg10048#msg10048
It is for a Plumber’s Forum, which has received over 14,800 views; I have posted quite a lot of the evidence that proves that I was set up as a scape goat and that the guilty walked free.
This happened in your constituency and it is now your portfolio, please can you tell me why you do not want this evidence acted upon?
Just to be clear, I have posted this email on this link and I will post any reply on the same link.
Also below is an email from John Key, apparently it is for you to deal with.
Yours sincerely
Paul Gee
________________________________________
From: J Key (MIN) [mailto:J.Key@ministers.govt.nz]
Sent: Tuesday, 27 October 2015 2:40 p.m.
To: 'gspservices@xtra.co.nz'
Subject: RE:
Dear Mr Gee
I am writing on behalf of the Prime Minister, Rt Hon John Key, to acknowledge your email of 24 October 2015 concerning your request for a transparent, independent inquiry into the plumbing issues that have affected you and your employment. Please be assured your comments have been noted.
As the issue you have raised falls within the portfolio responsibilities of the Minister for Building and Housing, Hon Dr Nick Smith, your email has been forwarded on to their office for consideration.
Thank you for taking the time to write to the Prime Minister.
Yours sincerely
A Ireton
Correspondence Manager
From: Paul & Emma Gee [mailto:gspservices@xtra.co.nz]
Sent: Saturday, 24 October 2015 8:05 a.m.
To: john.key@national.org.nz; 'Info'; 'Registrar'; complaints@pgdb.co.nz; communications@pgdb.co.nz; 'Janis Adair'; Andrew.McCaw@ombudsmen.parliament.nz
Cc: 'Wal Gordon'; 'Allan Day'; 'Colleen Upton'; 'Lyndon Moffitt'; john.key@national.org.nz; Andrew Little; Ann Hunn; Nick 4 Nelson; paul@paulhenry.co.nz; Phil Twyford; Craig Hooper - Coolhead Productions Ltd; Office of Sarah Dowie MP; probono@equaljusticeproject.co.nz; 'Paul Luxton'; 'PGDB Competency Based Licensing'; bryngee@hotmail.com; 'Brendan Horan'; B English (MIN); 'Barry Forman'; Hon Clayton Cosgrove; Jacinda Ardern; johnscarry@xtra.co.nz; 'Neal and Joan Gauntlett'; TVNZ
Subject:
Dear Prime Minister,
……and others copied in.
1. Please take the time to read this email it involves corruption that risks the NZ public’s health and safety. This is but the tip of a very large grimy ice burg. To not act on this, is to roll the dice with the people of this country’s safety, I ask you to call me on this. I believe the PGDB have and are trying to cover up a very badly administered gas certificate and licensing system.
2. Some one nearly died in an explosion and even though I had tried to warn about dodgy certs covering dodgy work for 6 years before, I was singled out….I believe singled out BECAUSE I had tried to warn about this.
3. My wife and I were subjected to a premeditated witch-hunt and have lost our business and our reputation and we were financially forced to sell our “only just” renovated, mortgage free very modest home in a very modest area, we owned all our vehicles and had no debt what so ever other than our monthly account at the plumbing suppliers. Our goal was to enjoy our young family.
4. I had spent many years and a huge amount of money re-qualifying my trade, re-sitting exams and practical assessments, because even though NZ had a shortage of gasfitters and plumbers advertised on the immigration lists, very little of my fully trained apprenticeship was recognised by the Board.
5. Our business finally died when the Board sent out a letter to all the additional sites of charges to an explosion, one of these letters had most impact, it was to the local high school in the then main centre of business. This letter said I was issuing illegal gas certs in Northland; I have never been to Northland.
6. The Board have since apologised for this letter but the damage has been done, the Board also offered us $500.00 for this too, but I told them to donate this money to Ronald McDonald house in CHCH, I don’t believe they did this.
7. After the Board’s biased and slanted hearing I was forced to work away, my wife and young sons spent the first 16 weeks of my absence living in a caravan with no running drinking water, nor a flushing toilet, my wife emptied the caravan toilet cassette at the local i-site and refilled water bottles for them to have drinking water. She never moaned once to me about this. My kids were toddlers.
8. In fact she went pretty quiet for the months leading up to the hearing and just after the hearing, she went quiet just after receiving child sexual abuse case notes to prove a point in a plumbing context, after all we had been through she found it very threatening and I found her hysterical. She opened the unmarked package at home with no indication of the filth inside on its outside wrapper and very little clear explanation of why it was sent on the inside….After all we had been through she thought, in her hysteria, that it was some sort of threat. I found her this way when I came home. We had had the Board hanging over our head for over 2 years.
9. After this kangaroo court, I worked away for two years, and lost two years out of our young son’s lives. I spent this two years going from job to job, living for months at a time in a caravan on an industrial site, bed and breakfasts and spent months living in a workshop, depending on where I could find work.
10. My trade was stolen from me, even though I am a fully qualified certifying/craftsman plumber and gasfitter with a limited trade electrical license I struggle to find a decent employer within my trade and have worked for two years as a trainee in a totally different industry, where I am reminded daily that I am new and know little about this new industry.
11. My “punishment” is far longer and deeper than the Board’s official one dealt out after the hearing, the hearing where the hearing chair shut it down just as I was going to go 100% innocent, shut down by the friend and confidant of the so called impartial investigator, the same impartial investigator who gifted my ex boss, John Darnley his full certifying/craftsman licence with no formal apprenticeship served. Of Note this last charge out of 44 charges laid has recently been ignored in another case, so even by the Board’s own reckoning I did nothing wrong what so ever.
12. This is the same boss I had complained about for the six years before the explosion, complaining about dodgy certs covering dangerous work, complained for 6 years before the explosion.
13. This explosion was caused by a third hose sold to supply two fryers, this third hose was sold because the initial one had split before, it was sold after I worked there. Please see “3rd hose receipt” and “letter of period of employment”…..please compare the dates.
14. John Darnley denied his own handwriting on the job card for these fryers, please see attachments. I say this because two people have checked one sample of the hand writing on this job card for the fryers that caused the explosion and a signed sample of Darnley’s handwriting. One of these people is a very experienced investigator and the other the only hand writing expert in NZ, if media releases are to be believed. Please see in attachments.
15. All this evidence is available to the Board, but they appear not to want to go after the person that all the evidence point to.
16. This apparent approach has been from the get go, the Dept of Labour actually complained about a certain certificate 345138 in their complaint made after the explosion, see attached.
17. Now the Board claim that this cert 345138 was never received by them, see attached.
18. But the so called impartial investigator says he saw the original, see attached….which is true?
19. There is also a copy of cert 345138 on the Boards Fox Pro system. Of Note ALL copies available show a lack of a record of a test for gas leaks….at the site of an explosion, caused by a gas leak.
20. I tried to prevent a situation for 6 years before an explosion nearly killed someone, a situation that I now am still paying for daily, I am 100% innocent.
21. I have gone to the Ombudsman and waited over two years for him to use his discretion and not investigate it, I do not believe this is fair and feel that the word “An Illusion of” should be added to their motto of Fairness for “All”.
22. No body will look at the legionnaire’s case I have also tried for years to get addressed, please see attached. This address is in the Minister responsible for this Nick Smith, this all happened in his constituency, the people who voted him in, were and I believe still are at risk from this mans work.
23. Well now you all know just some of the cover up and corruption that has and I believe is still done at a risk to the NZ public. And the huge cost it has had on an innocent family that came to NZ for a better life for our kids.
24. I bring your attention to a press release by Phil Routhan, the ex Board member and CEO of the Board. See attached titled “A former chief exec”.
25. I admit it does appear that Mr Routhan’s comments made on the state and mismanagement of the PGDB’s FoxPro cert system is a manipulation of a situation for his own ends, in trying to keep/reclaim his job. But please remember he was very, very informed and had a huge amount of access to the FoxPro system and had a lot of experience in the trades. It is reprehensible that it happened under his watch and even worse that he held on to it for his own ends, but that does not make it untrue, I believe he would not have made these claims if they were unsubstantiated.
26. I agree with Mr Routhan’s comments about the danger, and have been trying air these concerns for well over a decade, BEFORE the explosion.
27. I think the Ombudsman and copied in ministers owe it to the NZ public to push to have this looked in to, this would be fair.
28. An open transparent independent inquiry is well over due, please before anyone gets hurt.
29. If you request, and provide me an email that will accept, and I am not exaggerating here, a massive amount of evidence I will provide to back these claims. Because of the corrupt actions inflicted on my family by these people I am not in a financial position to take this to court, but I still have my voice. Please listen.
30. I ask you Dr Smith, with all due respect, what has changed in your opinion expressed in these letters attached, if anything your fears have been substantiated and proven beyond doubt, I am still the hard working, honest responsible man whom you met, what has changed for you? If anything now that you are the very minister responsible for this portfolio and its is in your constituency…. there is no-one better placed to deal with this corruption.
Yours Sincerely Paul Gee
-
The chipshop exploded in Nelson, in Milton Street....it exploded at approx 09:30 am on a school day......
It was an old butchers style window, mostly all plate glass, if it had exploded just one hour earlier....it would have been surrounded by school kids, there is a dairy right next door....in Nelson....
These would have been the kids of the people who voted and still vote Nick Smith into his job......
Nick Smith said quite a lot BEFORE the hearing, see letter below....
Since he has become the minister responsible for the Board.........
Why no action?
-
This c/h system is in Nelson......no one will look at it......its lethal (if, its how I saw it started, and have been told how it was finished).
I have told everyone I can think of even the coroner.....
Why won't someone go check?
-
I have tried pleading to peoples sense of empathy and ethics to do the right thing........have a read of the amount of times and to who I have tried to tell....not to mention told verbally....just scroll down, all the way down... on the attachment....
So here is another tack, if someone is made ill or looses their feet (like the poor lady recently) or even dies and this is a possibility, and it is a roll of the dice not to go check this job.....how is that going to effect the careers of these people?
The Board's response to look at this is to, ignore it several times and hand it to the territorial authority twice....so they are asking the very people who signed off on the building compliance....to go around and check some thing they may have missed......
Its ok though......the guy who put this c/h system in had a full certifying gas license and an exemption for fitting hot water....no training mind, but had all the tickets.....
Please please please just go and check..... (remember the guy who had all sorts done to him for not putting a strap on a cylinder? FFS....
-
So guys here we have it...the total sum of support you can expect from those in charge....
The minister Nick Smith just weeks before my hearing thought I was being set up as a scapegoat and had no confidence in the Board.....then the hearing actually proves I was actually set up as a scapegoat....he changes his mind, apparently its all fixed now. We have to give them "new guys" a chance.....
Well at my impartiality hearing I was told about how the investigator hadn't had a chance to act egregiously YET.....(egregiously meaning dodgy in our terms, with intent)....well then, after this impartiality hearing, he is given the chance(and his mate Parker , the chair of the hearing).... well they go and do all sorts of egregious things, hiding photos, withholding evidence, Parker protecting his mate the investigator, and both not investigating the person who all this points to.....so what happens now?
Well.....The Ombudsman is using discretion not to investigate... ...
The new guys are saying nothing here move on......see attached....
I AM NOT ASKING YOU RE-OPEN MY CASE.....I AM ASKING YOU TO GO AFTER THE PERSON WHO ALL THE EVIDENCE POINTS TO.......UNTIL YOU DO YOUR COMPLIANT AND HELPING COVER THIS UP.....
The amazing guys from the Feds, Wal Gordon especially, the last bastion of fairness in this industry (I used to say our industry, but I can't find work in it and my business has been stolen)......
Well we are going to formalise the over 170 paper documents, probably even more electronic files and bundles and bundles of cold hard evidence in a report and take it to a lawyer......
I may be quiet for some time, but I am still fighting this thing.....
AND A MASSIVE THANK YOU TO THE FEDERATION.
.
-
Martin Sawyers, PGDB Registrar......in reply to your recent letters attached below.....
I have got to ask just one question.....When did the explosion at a chipshop become MY case......Surely it is the case of the explosion, that nearly killed someone?
Lots of ignored evidence points to someone (definitely not me)......it should become an open transparent case....that no one "owns"....until that evidence proves it is their case so to speak.....
When someone is found guilty of this dangerous work, then it is their case......it is not now, nor was it ever MY case....go do your job and get the really guilty culprit.
Right I am off, got lots to do.......
.
-
From the last Nov Board press release.....
Board grants fair warning.....INDUSTRY TO GET ITS OWN HOUSE IN ORDER PRIOR TO FRESH FOCUS ON COWBOYS
So what about Board sanctioned cowboys.....they are ok I suppose? and cases have expiry dates it seems.....
I think every body, Board included.....should get their OWN house in order......and address the cowboys....even the ones gifted full gas certifying status by the Board, after one oral exam......that then went on to blow someone up.......but the Board appointed as the investigator for this explosion, the same guy who gifted the said license.......hmmmm.....
There is no credibility in hypocrisy..........no integrity in a cover up.......we should ALL start on a fresh sheet.....or it is just the same sheet, rolled in glitter......
I suppose this warning is to let you know that you are about suffer the same system as I was subjected to.....I wish you well.....now touch your toes.......
-
Have you heard back from any media yet??
-
The TV show....Story....thanked me for my info, but nothing has come of it yet, I have tried every thing I can think of......just had some replies from the Ombudsman too, they don't want to know either.......
Apparently in our system you can be set up, framed, lied about, and hounded out of an industry....while the guilty are protected.....it is so wrong.....
-
Makes you think....perhaps if I was of colour, disabled or gay it might be a story, but as I am an average run of the mill plumber, a normal father of two and husband, just trying to get by, its not news worthy.
Normal doesn't make the headlines unless it does something extreme....sad as it is....
-
Please see a list of the documents, not pages, but documents and not including electronic evidence and emails....all dismissed by the Board, Nick Smith, numerous other MP's and the Ombudsman........If I can loose everything in the face of this irrefutable evidence how can you be sure of a fair deal?
All these people tell me to get on with my life.....well when I get my life back...nothing would make me happier than to do so.....but my life was stolen by self serving incompetents to cover up their flippant issuing of full gas certify licenses to their mates and the total
mismanagement of the gas safety (LOL) cert system.....All done at a risk to the NZ public and the industry's integrity.
YOU be the judge if I deserved to be vilified and publically humiliated......it is so wrong.
To ignore this is to be party to it. To cover up corruption is to be corrupt.
This list is more for my reference, and may not make sense to you all, but I am happy to clarify where I can and aim to place each document on here for you to read, when I have time from studying for a new industry....As I am an apprentice at the age of 43, reminded daily that I am new in a new industry, it is soul destroying, but I have no other way to gainfully feed my family, even though I was told by the Board appointed assessor that I would be in the top 10% of gasfitters he had ever met. Fairness for All.....really? I just ain't feeling it.....
Itinerary of time line paper docs leading up to the explosion and afterwards
• Doc 1, 1994 Deregulation paper written by Tony Hammond, praising the newly utilised “self cert” system. Written as part of NZ Petroleum Conference Proceedings. States he is president of Gas Association of NZ (GANZ), with a history of 12 years with GANZ in 1994, in technical areas. Elected President in 1993, for a two year term. He was at the time a member of IPENZ and a fellow of NZIGE. This is the man appointed as the impartial investigator.
• Doc 2, 1998, John Darnley is granted by Tony Hammond his full craftsman license after holding an exception certificate for LPG Gasfitting for several years, after one oral assessment, from page 3 of 25 of Investigation report.
• Doc 3 2003, Tony Hammond represents GANZ on a committee for NZS 5263 and in 2004 Tony Hammond and Stephen Parker are on the Kennedy Trust for GANZ, secretariat for GANZ with Stephen Parker as the secretary and National Manager and Tony Hammond as Technical services. Taken from the GANZ 2005 report.
• 24th February 2003. I enter employment with Allgas, John Darnley’s manager at Allgas; it is a family run business.
• Doc 4, 20th August 2003, Rinnai NZ fax a document to Allgas allowing a 500mm clearance to an over head openable window to a flue on a higher end rated Rinnai gas califont. This was given to me about that time when I questioned clearances against the tables of NZ 5261, I was told it was an alternative to a non mandatory acceptable solution, this was the first time I had heard this in the industry, but not the last.
• 6th November 2003, a verbal altercation takes place between me and David Bergman, John Darnley’s son in law. It was over my concerns of safety.
• Doc 5, 10th November 2003, I submit a written statement in reply to this above incident to John Darnley.
• Doc 6, 13th November 2003, I receive a written warning from Darnley. On receiving this I told him in no uncertain terms I was leaving Allgas.
• Doc 7, 14th November 2003, at 13:34, someone faxes a request for 4 books of certs from PGDB. It is a strange request not just because it’s the first and only request done in my name but is done with additions and corrections to the application.
• Doc 9, 14th November 2003 these 4 x books are paid for in Darnley’s name to the PGDB account.
• Doc 10, 17th November 2003, the 4 x books of certs are issued.
• Doc 11, 19th November 2003 I hand in my written notice giving my last day as 2nd December 2003. This letter is incorrectly dated 19/12/03; it should have been 19/11/03.
• Doc 12, 3rd December 2003, I am given a calculation for my last pay, from John Darnley.
• Doc 13, 4th December 2003, I am given further breakdown of my pay from Annie Darnley, John’s Daughter.
• Doc 14, Early December 2003, upon leaving Allgas I go sub contracting for Nick Hobson (same gasfitter mentioned in Hammond’s later report) ultimately working for Rockgas, one of the first jobs I got sent to, was at a Jam factory, cert number 294360.
• This cert was apparently accepted by the PGDB totally filled out in my name but with out my signature. I had refused to sign many certs before I left Allgas, because of safety concerns or they were incomplete.
• Before Xmas 2003 I phoned the Board to ask about this and became aware of the other 4 books ordered in my name.
• Doc 15, I then wrote a letter 6th January 2004 about my concerns and the four books ordered in my name. I specifically mention the 4 books ordered in my name “very near to my departure”.
• Doc 16, I received a reply 23rd Febuary2004. Colleen Singleton claims that certs 294351 – 294390 were issued in Darnley’s name (I had no way of knowing what certs were bought in my name, these are not the certs bought in my name) and that cert 294360 has now been returned and signed in Darnley’s name.
• Doc 17, shows that these certs 294351 – 294390 mentioned by Colleen Singleton in her reply of 23rd February 2003 were issued on 20th September 2003 to John Darnley, nearly three months before my departure from Allgas. But these are not the certs ordered in my name; I had no way of knowing and had to take the PGDB at their word.
• Doc 18, a letter dated 4th March 2004 shows someone at Allgas writing in my name and using my license number, sent to PGDB to alter cert 294370, I knew nothing of this until after the explosion.
• Doc 19, December 2004, “National Gas Review”, a newsletter for GANZ lists Stephen Parker (later to chair my hearing) as the GANZ National Manager on an article that pictures Tony Hammond (later to be appointed the “Impartial Investigator”).
• Doc 20, 10th January 2005 I am called to a job at “Hammered Art’ for a gas leak. I am horrified to find that this is signed off in my name on cert 273489, with work done against how I would have done it, I remember installing just a bayonet extension to an existing install, but nothing else.
• Doc 21, 10th January 2005 An office note by Colleen Singleton proves I phoned PGDB the same day. She states that she “will write to the Board about this”.
• Doc 22, 13th January 2005, I engage a lawyer to look at this. Colleen Singleton had told me they only talk to lawyers about these things on the phone call.
• Doc 23, 19th January 2005 I invoice and was paid by Allgas to remove an “illegal installation”, Allgas was under new management by now. John Darnley had left.
• Doc 24, 24th January 2005, A letter from Tony Hunter, the new manager of Allgas, he was the old salesman. Offering to cover my costs to check all the illegal sites, when I told him I would need to visit each and everyone of the sites and charge accordingly, this offer was withdrawn.
• Doc 25, 27th January 2005, a letter from my lawyers saying they have received information from the Board that they have over 1000 certs in my name, I was told by Colleen Singleton that to get a copy of each cert would cost $25.00, a potential cost of 25 thousand dollars.
• Doc 26, 28th January 2005, another letter from the lawyers, with a copy of the reply dated the same from Belinda Greer from the Board; the number of certs has dropped to 89. In this reply it mentions copies of certs that I later became aware lack gas leak test results, I found out about this lack on these certs, of this very important info, after the explosion.
• It also provides copies of certain certs, free of charge. All in black and white, hiding the different colour inks, later found out after the explosion.
• One of these copies is of the Hammered Art cert. This is the cert that I mention to Nick Smith at a later meeting, I made accusations about this cert being added to….the differing colour ink on this cert backed my claims.
• This differing colour ink was not known to me until after the explosion, after several attempts of being denied OIA requests and a privacy request, and being shown, by Tony Hammond at interview, black and white photocopies done on pink paper (masking the different colour inks).
• Doc 27, 15th February 2005, a letter from Colleen Singleton listing my phone calls about gaining my plumbing registration for a license. I had to re-sit everything for my plumbing license, the “oral” exam denied me, and many others, but granted to about ten people, Darnley being one of them.
• Doc 28, 17th March 2005, an invoice for $349.97 from my lawyers. This was a large bill for my family; my first son was just 3 months old. I had just got a mortgage and was trying to start a business, I could not afford to pursue.
• Doc 29, 6th July 2005, I am audited for my PGDB regular audit. At 8 Point Rd, cert 299755. This is one of the certs handed back to Darnley when I left and refused to sign. I told the auditor this, but he “passed” me at this site anyway. The cert shows lots of info crossed out and additions. The same auditor was later used by the Board to audit me for special audits, after the explosion.
• Doc 30, a letter dated 25th July 2005 from Wintech, I am allowed to do a practical assessment which took two weeks and I was charged a relatively expensive amount to do this. I met other fully qualified plumbers and gasfitters mostly from the UK, re-sitting their qualifications, remember Darnley was ex UK and gifted his full gas certifying license after one oral exam, and was obviously clueless (just read his transcript for his hearing).
• Doc 31, a letter from PGDB acknowledging my registration as a plumber on 25th August 2005, but refusing my application as a craftsman plumber.
• Doc 32, December 2005 NZIGE newsletter. Pictured are John Darnley, Stephen Parker and Tony Hammond in a group of approx 50 people. Stephen Parker and Tony Hammond are mentioned to be representing GANZ, as well as being members of NZIGE. Other Board members are in the photo too.
• Doc 33, GANZ newsletter 2005/06, Stephen Parker and Tony Hammond listed together on the Kennedy Trust and on the secretariat. Stephen Parker is now the Executive Director and Tony Hammond is still Technical services.
• Doc 34, 25th May 2006, a letter from PGDB Phil Routhan refuses me a gas inspector license.
• Doc 35, May 2006, a report is done by Hazel Armstrong, it is critical of the Board, out of interest is has a photo of Kern Uren on the front, he was later appointed the registrar.
• Doc 36, I have a meeting with Nick Smith, I actually mention the cert for “Hammered Art” above, remember at this meeting I hadn’t seen a colour copy that was accepted by the Board as of yet.
• Doc 37, this meeting above resulted in the letter dated 6th June 2006, sent by Nick Smith to the PGDB, mentioning my concerns over dodgy certs covering dodgy dangerous work.
• Doc 38, this resulted in a PGDB reply dated 15th June 2006, from Phil Routhan. I did not see this reply until after the explosion.
• Doc 39, 12th July 2006, a press release from Dr Cullen, Health minister is made about the PGDB, based on a review done for him on relationships in the PGDB. Damien O’Conner MP then replaces the entire statutory Board.
• Doc 40, 21 August 2006, I fax a copy of Nick Smiths letter of 6th June 2006 and a hand written letter of my concerns to David Coxhead who had been appointed to the PGDB.
• Doc 41, 5th September 2006 I email Dr Cullen MP about my concerns.
• Doc 42, 12th September 2006 I receive a reply from Dr Cullen, passing my email to Damien O’Conner MP, as it came under his portfolio.
• Doc 43, 12th September 2006, I receive a reply from Damien O’Conner’s rep, I am told that the “minister has asked officials to look into the issues I have raised” and “you will receive a response as soon as possible”.
• Before and after these dates, approx this time, my son had had major surgery on his skull and my mother, suffering from empherscymia and the resulting nervous breakdown of being dumped on my door step by my father, these personal issues were first and foremost in my mind.
• Doc 44, December 2006 NZIGE news letter, pictured is John Darnley, Stephen Parker and Tony Hammond, with Stephen Parker and Tony Hammond representing GANZ in presentations. Other Board members present.
• Doc 45, GANZ newsletter with work groups for 2007-2008, Stephen Parker and Tony Hammond listed together on the Kennedy Trust and on the secretariat. Stephen Parker is still the Executive Director and Tony Hammond is still Technical services.
• Doc 46, January 2008, the NZ Law Commission release a paper on tribunals, it says that industry Boards should be free of Industry groups, just like GANZ and NZIGE…….not being on gasfitting Boards.
• 9th July 2008 Stephen Parker is appointed to the PGDB.
• Doc 47, 18th November 2008, I receive a newspaper clipping from a friend listing the Auditor General casting an eye over a poor performing PGDB.
• Doc 48, a list of PGDB members for the year ended 31st March 2008; it lists Dave Coxhead who I sent the fax to back in August 06.
• Doc 49, a list of PGDB members for the year ended 31st March 2009; it is missing Dave Coxhead who I sent the fax to back in August 06. But it now lists Stephen Parker as Deputy Chair, with Hazel Armstrong as Chair. It also lists Anthony Salisbury, who is pictured in the NZIGE photos in the news letters mentioned above. And Kern Uren as registrar, the same person from the photo from the front of the report by Hazel Armstrong.
• PGDB March 2009 Newsletter, it features Stephen Parker as deputy chair, and there is an article in it by Tony Hammond, baring in mind, the pipe work in the explosion was altered, the unregistered pizza oven cert and the gas hose sold to the explosion, after I left Allgas, Tony says this…..
The Gas Regulations (REG 24) define, amongst others, that the following require certification:
Extensions, additions and replacements to existing gas installations.
Alterations that result in repositioning of pipework or changes to the operation of the installation.
It is worth noting that an installation is defined in the Gas Act as “including a gas appliance”. Therefore, replacement of one appliance by another, even if very similar, requires certification. Further weight is added to the argument when one considers that even a “like for like” replacement needs to be adjusted to ensure gas pressure and aeration are set appropriately, the connections are gastightness and the safety devices operate at the right levels; that is, the appliance needs to be commissioned in accordance with clause 1.6.7 of NZS 5261.
• April 9th 2009 The owner of the Milton St Fish and Chip Cafe in Nelson was badly burned in a dramatic gas explosion at his takeaway store, the front window and rear wall of the shop were blown out in the blast, which happened about 9.30am, and debris and glass from the shop were strewn across Milton St. Taken from a press release in the Nelson Mail.
• Doc 50, April 17th 2009, another explosion at the Prince Albert Pub, all certs for this address are in the name of Nick Hobson, the guy I worked for and became a witness for the Board’s investigator, but with drew his testimony when I later pointed out the untruths in it.
• April 17th 2009 is the same date that these statements below were written about Belinda Greer by a Board lawyer,
I have just gone back through the file and can confirm that the Board never received a pink copy of certificate345138.
Please see attached Belinda’s file note of her request to John Darnley for a copy of certificate 345138. This occurred after she was contacted by lawyers acting for the owner on 17 April 2009 requesting copies of all gas certificates relating to 136 Milton Street.
• Cert 345138 is for the last work done at the site of this explosion. It is for a pizza oven and all available copies are missing tests for leaks and are totally in Darnley’s name, the Board claim to have never received a copy for it, but a copy appears on their website. I only found this out after the explosion, actually after my hearing, 11th of may 2011.
• Doc 51, Hand written notes from PGDB 20th and 21st April 2009, John Darnley “engaged” and mentions “copy of Cert 345138 is to be posted to PGDB” in these notes.
• Doc 52, NZIGE newsletter May 2009…John Darley resigns as a member from NZIGE. I am told he was a GANZ member as a seller of gas also.
• Doc 53, May 2009 I make a voluntary statement through my lawyers that I had re-engaged. It was the same law firm from before, but a different lawyer.
• Doc 54, 8th July 2009, a complaint from DOL, actually listing concerns over dodgy gas certs covering dodgy gas work, it mentions cert 345138 by number, the pizza oven cert.
• Doc 55, 14th July 2009, I receive a letter from Belinda Greer (this name keeps coming up) from the PGDB telling me that the Board had received the above mentioned DOL complaint.
• Doc 56, 19th July 2009, I email my lawyer giving brief outline of events, apologising for the delay as my mother had been taken to hospital again.
• Doc 57, 21st July 2009, my lawyer reiterates to the Board the same concerns I had raised with them for many years, ones mentioned in Belinda Greer’s responses.
• Doc 58, 21st July 2009, a letter is sent by John Darnley to the PGDB to explain his issuing of photocopies of cert 345138, the pizza oven cert.
• Doc 59, 23rd July 2009, I receive a letter from the Board appointing Tony Hammond as the investigator.
• Around this time I have several interviews with Tony Hammond, and sometimes accompanied by John DeBernardo (I am told for training purposes).
• Doc 60, 31st July 2009. My lawyer is sent by Tony Hammond an email to confirm that the 4 books of certs were ordered in my name (with out my permission) as mentioned above, and that they were paid for by John Darnley.
• Doc 61, 18th June 2009. Nick smith writes to Maurice Williamson MP, saying that I had raised concerns with him before; backing my claims and that there is some justification for a formal investigation.
• Doc 62, 5th August 2009, after other voluntary interviews I present a large body of evidence to Tony Hammond and made several statements outlining dangerous work.
• 27th August 2009, the Board request from Casey services special audits (same Auditor that did the earlier annual audit for 8 point Road mentioned above)
• Doc 63, 3rd September 2009. I meet with Nick Smith again.
• Doc 64, 3rd September 2009. My lawyer tells of my prior warnings and makes an official information act request but is told by Kern Uren the PGDB are not subject to this Act in his reply dated *21st Sept 2009.
• Doc 65, 7th Sept 2009, Nick Smith writes to Pansy Wong MP raising concerns on my behalf and my being made a scapegoat.
• Doc 66, 19th September 2009, Police are investigating a scam of several cases of people signing blank certs and selling them, this is in the North Island in places I have never visited.
• Doc 67, *21st September 2009, letter from Kern Uren mentioned above in response to OIA request.
• Doc 68, 21st September 2009, NZIGE Annual Meeting shows apologies from John DeBernardo, who accompanied Tony Hammond on my interviews, Anthony Salisbury Board, a PGDB member and Bret Oldfield, son of one of the people accused of selling blank certs in the North Island (he is later granted a license to be a certifying gasfitter, in a very similar manner as was John Darnley’s license. This was done after his father didn’t renew his license, his fathers case may still be before the Board to this very day). Stephen Parker moves accept these apologies.
• Doc 69, 24th September 2009, a letter is sent out to all license holders by Kern Uren about dodgy gas certificate issue in the media, this is the signing of blank certs as mentioned above.
• Doc 70, 1st October 2009, Kern Uren on behalf of the PGDB writes to some of the 6 additional sites of charges (later to be laid), extra to the explosion, telling the people from all over my business area that the certs I have issued to their premises are involved in the blank cert fiasco.
• Doc 71, 2nd October 2009 Kern Uren on behalf of the PGDB writes to the local high school that the cert I have issued to their premises are involved in the blank cert fiasco mentioned above, from this point on my business floundered and disappeared, I was also verbally attacked for putting people at risk on building sites by other tradesman.
• How these addresses were available to Uren at this time is a question I would like answered, I was only made aware of them in Doc 81, dated 7th January 2010
• Doc 72, 5th October 2009, a letter from Kern Uren to my lawyer stating that it is all about the signature on a cert and that it is common practise for an employer to purchase books of certs for an employee. Kern Uren later uses an electronic signature, well PGDB staff use the electronic signature without Kern’s Knowledge, he is ok with this.
• Doc 73, 11th October 2009, I send to my lawyer to send to PGDB a wealth of information/evidence to show the above history before the explosion.
• Doc 74, 20th October 2009, a news paper clipping from the Dominion post saying that Phil Routhan has been suspended and had taken lots of documents with him ,and another with no date quoting Routhan’s fears about the state of the cert system and the danger it poses to the NZ public.
• Doc 75, 21st October 2009, email to my lawyer saying I had gone to Mot High as I only became aware when they contacted me, and that I had discovered Darnley’s connections to NZIGE through the internet.
• Doc 76, 2nd November 2009, my second voluntary statement to the Board.
• Doc 77, 12 November 2009, a reply to a privacy act request from Kern Uren, as my OIA requests were turned down to access docs.
• Docs 78, 3rd December 2009, reply from Kern Uren fobbing off my previous concerns as mentioned in doc 77 above.
• Doc 79, 10th December 2009, news article NZ Herald, police not to pursue gasfitter signing blank certs and selling the, Kern Uren Won’t answer calls.
• Doc 80, IPENZ Annual Review 2009, listing as collaborating societies IPENZ, GANZ, NZIGE, Gas Appliance Suppliers Assoc and the gas ITO. Most of the people mentioned above are members of one or all of these organisations, including Darnley.
• Doc 81, 7th January 2010, the Investigator’s findings (none of which made the final charges) and Casey’s findings to the “special” audits are made available to my lawyer.
• Doc 82, 12th February 2010, an email to my lawyer and with Nick Smith copied in, addressing these audits.
• Doc 83, 11th March 2010, my lawyer’s letter to Board claiming a concerted effort being made against me and the astonishment at the evidence that is becoming apparent and being ignored by the Board and its investigator.
• Doc 84, 12th March 2010, my lawyers letter to Tony Hammond listing a lot of evidence and his concerns that I am being targeted.
• Doc 85, 18th May 2010, my lawyers letter to Kern Uren, confirming contrary to earlier advice from PGDB that the complaint for the explosion, is based solely on the DOL complaint, and that DOL’s representative and the actual author of this complaint, had made the comment to my lawyer over the phone that I need not worry as …. “none of my work was a point of investigation”.
• Doc 86, 20th May 2010, one of the emails about the legionnaires’ risk, installed by Darnley and still ignored as far as I know until today.
• Doc 87, April/May 2010, Maurice Williamson makes comments in NZ Plumber’s mag about misuse of the cert system and it being dangerous to the public. The Auditor Generals report is expected.
• Doc 88, 1st June 2010, Investigators report is issued into the explosion.
• Doc 89, 12th July 2010, Investigator releases a second “revised” report. In this report Hammond claims to have seen cert 345138 the “pizza oven” cert, he claims to have referenced “originals received by the Board at the time that the work was certified clarifies the original information”. The sites of the charges were re-investigated after the initial investigation by Hammond (around this time, not sure of dates).
• July 2010 Auditor Generals report is released.
• In this same “revised” report Hammond states that Darnley didn’t recognise his own hand writing on the job card for the fryers that caused the explosion, according to two recent hand writing assessors.
• Doc 90, 30th July 2010, the PGDB agree to appoint a due inquiry.
• 16th Sept 2010, appoint other members to the Board
• Doc 91, 9th November 2010, I issue an answer to the investigators reports.
• Approx October 2010, I start to circulate my situation publically by emails.
• Doc 92, 8th October 2010, notes on the content of a first and last phone call that I found threatening from Kern Uren, up until then we had used written correspondence.
• Doc 92, 11th October 2010, I ask for clarification from Kern Uren on a letter dated 20th Sept 2010, this letter references the above report from Hammond when ignoring my complaints.
• Doc 93, 18th October 2010, letter received from Kern Uren, dismissing my complaints and blatant evidence as vexatious.
• Doc 94, several emails to Kern Uren from myself concerning the missing info on the originals but missing on the carbon copies of these originals, it is dismissed as vexatious.
• Doc 95, 20th October 2010, Minutes from NZIGE annual general meeting, listing Tony Hammond and Anthony Salisbury as present and John DeBernardo and Stephen Parker as giving their apologies.
• Doc 96, 28th October 2010 I down loaded from PGDB website the licenses for Richard Oldfield and Brett Oldfield, Richard Oldfield still has his full certifying license, Brett is still on an exception, he is later granted full certifying status.
• Doc 97, 3rd November 2010, I prepare notes for a QC that I was to meet at my lawyers, the meeting on the 9/11/10 ay 15:30 this meeting resulted in me being told to plead guilty to charges. I ended my association with this lawyer.
• Doc 98, 7th November 2010, around this time I start to be helped by members of the Federation. It has been a huge help.
• Around this time the people involved with the “sites of concern” start to back what I am saying to the Board.
• Doc 99, 28th and 29th December 2010, notes on my concerns over impartiality of the Board and its investigator and the History leading up to the Explosion.
• Doc 100, 13th January 2011, I inform the registrar that Wal Gordon of the Federation will now represent me.
• Doc 101, 25th January 2011, an application was made to dismiss charges with prejudice.
• Nearly 50% of the charges were amended at the last minute, application for amendments made on 1st February 2011, the hearing on the 3/5/11, after over 2 years of investigation.
• Doc 102, 3rd February 2011, a complaint is made about preference shown to the investigator, and his ignoring of dead lines which gave him an advantage.
• Doc 103, 7th February 2011, Teleconference minutes for the up coming “impartiality” hearing for the 22nd Feb, (after complaints of conflicts of interest my original date of a hearing was used).
• Doc 104, 14th February 2011, an affidavit is issued by Hammond that appears to contradict most of the above wrt impartiality.
• Doc 104, 14th February 2011, an affidavit is issued by Kern Uren. Amongst other things it gives an excuse for the untrue letters prejudicing all the extra sites of charges.
• Doc 105, 14th February 2011, a letter from Nick Hobson giving a statement that undermined his testimony mentioned in Hammond’s report.
• Doc 106, 18th February 2011, confirmation from the Board for the venue to hold the “impartiality” hearing.
• Doc 107, 18th February 2011, submission from investigator regarding “motion to dismiss”. The investigator says that the only basis for a stay of proceedings was if the investigator could be shown to have conducted any “egregious” behaviour. This behaviour was evident at the later hearing.
• 22nd February 2011, the impartiality hearing is held.
• Doc 108, 22nd February 2011 Opening Statement, page 5, lines 5 to 13 appear to contain untruths wrt the relationship between Stephen Parker and Tony Hammond.
• Doc 109, 22nd February 2011 transcript and legal adviser comments of the two hour hearing I was told to allow three days for, leaving me marooned in Wellington.
• Doc 110, 24th February 2011, email from me to the Board referring to letters with a ten day deadline sent by Kern Uren.
• Doc 111, 25th February 2011, an email in response to the email above 24th Feb, confirming that Kern Uren uses an electronic signature that is used with out his knowledge by other PGDB employee’s.
• Doc 112, 3rd March 2011, PGDB decision that they them selves are impartial.
• Doc 113, 17th March 2011, teleconference minutes confirming dates of 3rd 4th 5th May for hearing.
• Doc 114, March PGDB newsletter telling people to read the manufactures instructions when using proprietary piping systems wrt UV effects, i.e. Pexal in sunlight, the total cause of Hammond issuing the first seven sites of concern, none of which made it to the final charges.
• Doc 115, 29th March 2011, email from PGDB to Wal “confirming” that we have all the relevant information from the report. Hammond later withheld over 100 photos taken by the forensic police expert, that proved the pipe work had been changed, and more.
• Doc 116, in an April 2011 Board newsletter the Board state….
“The system bids farewell to old paper-based certificates and the associated risks of fraudulent activity as highlighted in the OAG report and recent incidents in Auckland and other NZ cities”
• 5th April 2011, Darnley’s hearing is held, Stephen Parker stands down on the first day and hands the chair to Mark Whitehead, but stays on panel.
• Doc 117, 16th April 2011, Nick Smith writes a letter condemning the Board and backing my claims.
• Doc 118, 27th April 2011, Hammond puts a witness reply statement in, in reply to one made on the 19th April 2011. There are a few contradictions in this document.
• Doc 119, 28th April 2011, I receive receipts from the west coast Caltex confirming what I said and revealing yet another manipulation of certs done in my name.
• Doc 120, April 2011, historical complaints policy is released by the PGDB.
• Hearing is held 3rd, 4th and 5th of May 2011, it was a sham withheld photos misrepresented evidence, an ignored fraud and finally shut down by Parker before I could clear my self, while cross examining Hammond. 42 out of 44 charges blown out of the water.
• 11th MAY 2011, I become aware of the PGDB’s claim that the “pizza oven” cert 345138 was not registered with PGDB.
• Doc 121, 16th May 2011, closing submissions entered for me by Wal Gordon.
• Doc 123, July 2011 decision released by Board and new “grievance” system launched by PGDB.
• Doc 124, 13th July 2011, press release by owner of exploding chip shop saying he never thought I was guilty, an untruth about me referring to myself as a “mere” plumber and a big deal is made about the one final charge, that the Board later ignored in another case, and Nick Smith saying the new Board should be given a chance and even though he had said I was a scapegoat, no inquiry was needed, a lot changes in a month eh?.
• 26th July 2011, Allan Bickers is announced as chair of PGDB, he doesn’t see his term out resigning for personal reasons. But going on to join other Boards.
• Doc 125, 29th July 2011, investigators submission on penalty. He pushes for the full punishment.
• Doc 126, 21st August 2011, my submission on penalty, lists the effects and losses incurred due to the bad faith investigation I faced.
• Doc 127, 5th October 2011, I am quoted $3,123.16 plus gst for an OIA request by the PGDB.
• Doc 128, 7th November 2011, press release saying I had to undergo training to uplift a license, this training didn’t exist I was assessed and was told that I would be in the top 10% of gasfitters the assessor had ever met.
• 14th October 2011 I lay complaints under the historical complaints procedure.
• Doc 129, 5th December 2011, I receive a confirmation of my complaints, these ended in a written apology for the letter sent saying I was issuing illegal certs, an offer of $500.00 which I told them to donate to Ronald Mc Donald house and the rest were “outside of scope” of the complaint.
• Doc 130, 7th December 2011, Email from PGDB lawyer stating that ‘All installations certified by me were audited installed between 2003 and 2006”, up until this letter I was told all audits including special audits were based on 10% of my installs, not all for a certain 3 year period.
• Doc 131, December 2011, a spread sheet of the financials for my business, showing decline and final failure.
• Doc 132, 2nd February 2012, letter from Board about my concerns about the electronic copies of certs, this I believe ended in the disclaimer placed on the website.
• Doc 133, 10th February 2012, letter from Board claiming several certs can’t be found after my OIA request.
• Doc 134, 16th February 2012, letter from Board claiming that these certs can now be found, may be the photos I took at the gas suppliers copies allowed this? Of note most if not all of these certs were missing the gas test results….just like the site of the explosion and missing pizza oven cert.
• Doc 135, 5th March 2012, High Court appeal docs, shut down.
• Doc 136, 12th April 2012, receipt of my complaint about how Darnley was investigated.
• Doc 137, 7th May 2012, reply my complaints about how Darnley was investigated, legionnaires risk British Standard, etc.
• Doc 138, May 2012, sketch and cert of legionnaires risk.
• Doc 139, 25th May 2012, informing me of a report to be done from PGDB.
• Doc 140, 22nd June 2012, Helen Cull initial findings, most of my complaints are outside policy.
• Doc 141, 2nd August 2012, PGDB 33 pg report on my complaints, more of an admission of guilt.
• Doc 142, 30th August 2012, PGDB letter dismissing my complaints about where the DOL complaint mentioned me, which it didn’t, requesting the conflicts of interest register, etc….just covering up referring to the 33pg report as being addressed.
• Doc 143, 6th September 2012, letter from PGDB claiming a missing cert 299760, hadn’t been received in 2005, but then it was …and then misplaced.
• Doc 144, 13th September 2012, letter from PGDB response to Helen Cull. An offer of $500 and an apology.
• Doc 145, 7th November 2012, letter from PGDB saying my complaints, missing certs etc…. have been carefully considered ….and then dismissed.
• Doc 146, 29th November 2012, warning and release papers from police after I snapped and entered the PGDB buildings with a trespass notice in place.
• Doc 147, 1st February 2013, Helen Culls findings, of note she accepts that the letters telling untruths did affect my business.
• Doc 148, 21st March 2013, my submission to a select committee.
• Doc 149, 22nd March 2013, my letter to community law, I used this to have a try with the Ombudsman.
• Doc 150, 3rd April 2013, apology from PGDB for the poor drafting of the “kern” letters, the letters that ruined my business, sent out separate from the disciplinary process according to the Board….so it can be treated differently, outside of policy?
• Doc 151, 10th April 2013, letter from Maori Party acknowledging my complaints.
• Doc 152, 3rd May 2013, PGDB reply to my OIA about an exploding pizza hut, this resulted in Maurice Williamson having to retract his words in Parliament. Then he did his by gay rainbow speech.
• Doc 153, 3rd September 2013, Ombudsman letter fobbing me off referring to the 33 page report, which is blatant flannel.
• Doc 154, 2nd October 2013, PGDB letter asking for specifics about the legionnaire’s risk, all of which I had made available to them before.
• Doc 155, 17th October 2013, PGDB letter confirming that Darnley’s charge for the explosion disappeared before his hearing. How does this happen?
• Doc 156, 23rd January 2014, PGDB letter confirming that the fraud at Powick St that was shown at my hearing, wasn’t acted on by the Board, apparently leaving the “dangerous” work still in place…the only contact was the one letter sent ….the ones they apologised for…the ones that ruined my business.
• Doc 157, 21st March 2014, the “loosing” of my application for a license by PGDB leaving me unlicensed for a year.
• Doc 158, 2nd May 2014, letter from Maryan Street. Asking Nick Smith to reconsider his position.
• Doc 159, 7th May 2014, letter for an application for fees waiver decline from Board.
• Doc 160, 9th May 2014, letter for an application for fees waiver decline from Board, a replacement letter for the one above.
• Doc 161, 12th May 2014, letter from PGDB acknowledging my request about what has been done about the 560 blank certs fiasco.
• Doc 162, 20th May 2014, letter from PGDB acknowledging that one person is still before the Board for the 560 blank certs fiasco, all these years later, these are the blank certs that resulted in my business being ruined, by kerns letters that had to apologise for.
• Doc 163, 30th May 2014, Ombudsman letter dismissing my complaints, putting weight in the reports issued by PGDB, the very people I had complained about.
• Doc 164, 25th July 2014, Reply from Nick Smith to Maryan Street, saying that my case showed deficiency’s at the PGDB, but they have changed and fixed this (wish they would fix my life) ….so there is no reason to revisit.
• Doc 165, 13th June 2014, another reply from the Ombudsman, believing the Board and blaming me for the four books of certs ordered in my name with out my knowledge.
• Doc 166, 18th September 2014, letter from PGDB dismissing my complaints about a waiver of fees, and “loosing” my application.
• Doc 167, 13th October 2014, Ombudsman letter requesting a report from the Board…Highgate (this ignored califont, was the subject of my last charge) and the signing of 560 blank certs.
• Doc 168, 14th October 2014, Ombudsman letter dismissing my complaints of misplacing my license application, relying yet again on a report done by the people I have complained about, i.e. the PGDB.
• Doc 169, 16th October 2014, Ombudsman letter dismissing my complaints of not investigating Darnley properly, the biased findings of my hearing, etc…. using his power of “discretion”, relying yet again on a report done by the people I have complained about.
• Doc 170, 8th December 2014, Ombudsman letter dismissing my complaints of ignoring my complaint about the Highgate situation, the elderly couple who complained about fumes entering their home, the PGDB ignored them….but in my case where the client hadn’t complained….they went after me and said I had no appreciation of how the fumes were dangerous….but they told the Highgate’s to close the window when you use the califont!
• Doc 171, 20th July 2015, “new” Board letter refusing to act on my complaints.
• Doc 172, 21st October 2015, reaffirming non action.
-
Not to mention the hand writing expert.....who thinks that the added writing for fryers on the job card was Darnley's hand.....
ALL IGNORED BY EVERYONE WHO SHOULD BE APPALLED.......
-
Doc 3 2003, Tony Hammond represents GANZ on a committee for NZS 5263 and in 2004 Tony Hammond and Stephen Parker are on the Kennedy Trust for GANZ, secretariat for GANZ with Stephen Parker as the secretary and National Manager and Tony Hammond as Technical services. Taken from the GANZ 2005 report.
How would you feel to be sat in a hearing where the chair (Stephen Parker) is over seeing an investigation by Tony Hammond......after Tony Hammond gifted the full certifying license to Darnley years earlier? All three members of NZIGE and IPENZ.
Have a look at Nick Smiths membership of IPENZ too......makes you think eh?
But I just get back on with the train wreck of a life these bastards left me.
-
The thing is the dickhead who was gifted his full certifying license AND was a member of NZIGE, giving the impression he was not only a fully certified gasfitter but a gas engineer to boot....well he worked unhindered and legally empowered in Nelson, Blenheim and every where in between for over 15 years...
To say he was clueless is an understatement, but his attitude was worse, he once....when told he couldn't fit a certain appliance in a bedroom, scribbled the word "bedroom" out and wrote "study".....he was quite chuffed with that one.....
Another time when I asked for a schematic for the central heating system he was installing that also was connected to the hot water system.....he told me to "use poker face" and pretend I knew what I was doing......this system has the potential to kill some one.......but nothing is done........
THIS GUYS WORK IS STILL OUT THERE LIKE A TICKING TIME BOMB......NO ONE WANT TO KNOW, THE POWERS THAT BE STILL COVER THIS UP AND PROTECT HIM......PERHAPS SOMEONE CAN ASK WHY......
-
I went to Nick Smiths caravan last Saturday.....even though it is his portfolio and the people of his constituency are potentially at risk......well he said I should just move on......
I even offered to take him to the house where the same water in the central heating rads, is coming out of the shower.....he declined to came with me.....
-
Remember Tony Hammond said this.....in March 2009, the chipshop exploded in April 2009, weeks later.....
The Gas Regulations (REG 24) define, amongst others, that the following require certification:
Extensions, additions and replacements to existing gas installations.
Alterations that result in repositioning of pipework or changes to the operation of the installation.
It is worth noting that an installation is defined in the Gas Act as “including a gas appliance”. Therefore, replacement of one appliance by another, even if very similar, requires certification. Further weight is added to the argument when one considers that even a “like for like” replacement needs to be adjusted to ensure gas pressure and aeration are set appropriately, the connections are gastightness and the safety devices operate at the right levels; that is, the appliance needs to be commissioned in accordance with clause 1.6.7 of NZS 5261.
Now I have a receipt for a third hose sold weeks after I left Allgas, BECAUSE THE HOSE AT THE CAUSE OF THE EXPLOSION HAD SPLIT, THE SECONG TIME IT SPLIT IT NEARLY KILLED THE OWNER.....remember Hammond says "like for like".......and not forgetting the missing cert for the pizza oven, which all carbon copies show a lack of gas leak tests.....the original pink copy is claimed not to have been received by the Board........but there is a copy of the cert on the website, same number, same appliances, same address, same everything.....including the missing test results.....
-
John Darnley is still protected by the Board for this, he faced a charge but it disappeared before his trial......well how would Tony Hammond look if he had to prosecute the same bloke he gifted a full certifying gasfitting license to.....after one oral exam....but then his work blew someone up and nearly killed him.....
-
Tony Hammond said this in a Board newsletter March 2009....
The Gas Regulations (REG 24) define, amongst others, that the following require certification:
Extensions, additions and replacements to existing gas installations.
Alterations that result in repositioning of pipework or changes to the operation of the installation.
The over 100 withheld photos showed that the pipe work was altered, lowered.....this caused the explosion......Tony Hammond withheld those photos.......
Also the cylinder station was altered and there was a pizza oven fitted half way along.....all by Allgas/Darnley.......but they went after me....
-
Have a read of it......attached....
-
One further matter that runs through many of the investigations
of complaints is the lack of effective record keeping. While it is
recognised that some of the installation details are recorded on
the Certificate many are not and the results of pressure tests, flue
performance, burner pressures and safety device settings should all be
recorded to demonstrate that an installation has been commissioned
effectively.
From the same newsletter......remember the missing test results that the Board suddenly had no problem with.....AFTER AN EXPLOSION!!!!!
-
So weeks before the explosion,
One further matter that runs through many of the investigations
of complaints is the lack of effective record keeping. While it is
recognised that some of the installation details are recorded on
the Certificate many are not and the results of pressure tests, flue
performance, burner pressures and safety device settings should all be
recorded to demonstrate that an installation has been commissioned
effectively.
now compare the Boards opinion AFTER an explosion nearly killed someone....see attached...
It appears to be one rule for one and another rule for others......its a continuous membership Board....the sins of the past are inherited by the present....
-
A tad hypocritical eh!
This explosion landed a guy in a burns unit for over two weeks, intensive care and ruined his business.....
-
Look at the list of documents below......had I not tried to warn about dodgy certs covering dangerous work? Look at the dates BEFORE the explosion.
My work was of such a standard that out of 44 charges laid against 3 YEARS worth of my installs (not 10% as claimed by Hammond) only one job was found to "stick"....this is bullshit too, as you can see by the photos earlier in this post and the documents and testimony at my hearing....but I still lost everything.
Now think of any of the past jobs you have signed off......how would you fair in a slanted system like this? Are you going to keep your head down in hope that these people leave you alone?
I was the president of Nelson master Plumbers, I was told I was in......then they firmly planted a dagger in my back.....
Why? Because I put public safety over these incompetents ego and a cert system so badly run it eventuated in an explosion, had to carry a disclaimer and was finally taken off the Board.....
They refeuse , still to this day to look at a central heating system installed where the water comes in to a califont then to the hot out lets WITH RADS OFF THE RING MAIN!.....fitted by Darnley using his gifted license and dispensations......contaminated water coming out of the shower, atomised so it can be breathed in......
Who's here to police this......it's in Nick Smiths back yard....he don't want to know, the Board don't want to know.....I wonder if they will frame me for it when someone is made ill or worse........I been warning about this one for many years........same as I warned about the other dangerous work......that they framed me for.......
No one has been held responsible for the explosion, Darnley faced a charge but it disappeared before his hearing, most if not all evidence points to Darnley.....but I have paid the price and do every day......
Every one involved in our trade should be appalled and very nervous, nervous that it doesn't suit these people to frame YOU instead of fixing the industry......it has to be fair and transparent.....but most of all the past has to be addressed, otherwise you condone it.
-
Here’s the thing.….and believe me I know from experience…the Board’s judicial system (and most law for that matter) is run, judged and governed by “past precedents”….basically any past and accepted history determines the future direction taken.
Historic Board findings, accepted behaviour and results/punishments, statistics, etc, etc are what will determine the Board’s future decisions, i.e. and I can not emphasis this enough....the history of past Board’s will determine the future behaviour of future Boards, this is the basis of Law.
This is how the “Law” works, the Law is a historical record, a body of accepted decisions/out comes, proven evidence with which to use as a measure for future rulings.
For instance I was told (done in a manner that gave the impression that the Board were doing me a favour)…… that the “past president” for plaintiffs accused of any wrong doing are “more likely” to be guilty of the lesser set of circumstances that are part of the accusations that are levelled against the said plaintiff. If you need to see a small part of the twisted content of this SICKNESS just scroll back through this post, its there.....The sick bastards did it in several depraved child sexual abuse case notes on past precedents, applied in a plumbing context (FFS) and sent to my home under a plain wrapper and read by my wife (which shows, I believe the true direction that they were trying to achieve, nothing more than pure intimidation).
Any way I digress….my point being is that they run on past precedents…all governments do......
Now let us look at the Board’s past precedents…..which you can (if we take the intention of the law at face value) be expected to have levelled against you for any future misdemeanours/offences (or if they just want to protect a mate)…..
You might be on the wrong side of a grumpy customer that wants’ it done for nothing and decides to “dobb you in”, bit like the poor sod who fell out with a customer over cost before he had completed the job…..cost him $1000’s for not having a strap on the hot water cylinder….screwed over by the Board, a past precedent.
Now look at just some of the Board’s past precedents ….
They made such a cock up of the gas safety cert system that it had to carry a disclaimer for accuracy…then they had it taken from them, all ignored and swept under the carpet (because it suits them).
When these shortcomings were revealed by a near fatal explosion, they framed someone (me) who had spent the 6 previous years trying to warn about dodgy certs covering dodgy work.
More than happy to ignore huge conflicts of interest.
Sit back and watch evidence being withheld that proved my innocence.
Send letters to your customers telling untruths that prejudiced every site of the charges laid.
They are happy to set people up (and I am not alone) to cover their own short comings/incompetency’s even when someone nearly dies (actually I think the worse the problem, the more chance of a cover up and the appointing of a scapegoat).
They are happy to bail out/ cover up for their certain select few mates at the expense of the innocent people.
Still to this day refuses to look at dangerous work when it suits.
Happy to take illegally 2 million dollars from the industry, because they needed it to stay solvent….(how many struggling plumbers would like to try and get away with that, when your looking at loosing your home and not being able to feed your kids?)
When it goes wrong no one gets punished….they just resign (for private reasons) and get replaced….AND IT CARRIES ON…..
There is much much more, I could go on and on (and I intend to)…….
This is their past precedent…..and when it goes so terribly wrong, the government change the law, allow them to carry on with a new faces at the front, no one who was corrupt is ever punished, even reprimanded, they just get away with it until they get so bad that they are replaced……
I have a novel idea, a deterrent if you will……
A new precedent…..lets have it out in the open, lets punish the corrupt…..so the next time any “new” guy thinks about doing something dodgy or corrupt….he thinks twice....because there are repercussions to their dodgy actions......
The thing is they CAN act with impunity because they know they can, and then get bailed out by the very minister who appointed them in the first place ......(and these ministers don’t want… and will never want …..any egg on his/her face and admit he/she was wrong in appointing their goons). And the cycle of shit continues….ruining and spitting people’s lives out as it spins.
Guys you need to address this sort of behaviour BEFORE you are on the stand looking at loosing everything….do me a favour, pick out any old PGDB publication/newsletter/etc. …..if you go back to ANY past releases, they ALL claim to be putting the trade and public first, all the new Board’s all claim to up hold the industry and act with integrity and good faith……I beg to differ, the past precedents tell me other wise.....if you don't address the past you are doomed to repeat.....
I don’t and never will believe them until they face up to their past precedents and fix them…..and I don’t think you should either…..
We need a new past precedent….a fair open one where the innocent and public are protected and the trade is treated with respect and fairness.
-
Basically the governments take on....."past precedents" is.....
You have happily accepted it up to now.....what's your f****ing problem....
Don't wait until they decide (or their good mates decide) that your business is not needed as competition in your area.
-
Is it too much to ask for fair play........it really does make you wonder ......
Why are we judged on others past precedents....
But those in charge, those running the show, those that pontificate about these past precedents of others when it concerns us......
Well it appears that they aren't even judged on their own past precedents.....what's all that about?
Is this democracy?......sounds more like a dictatorship.....or perhaps a democracy of hypocrisy.....its where you think you got a say and a vote....then they do what ever they like anyway, in the face of what they publicly say....
-
Remember now the "Board" is an entity, a continuous membership Board, celebrating 100 years of BEING........a bit like a person in law, like a ltd company.....
For them to say we are new and won't do it again.....
The equivalent in my mind is a career repeat offender who claims to be a new person and will never re-offend, because he has been on a sunbed, dyed his hair another colour, had a perm, then had a facelift and liposuction..... hey I am new, I look different....but it is still the same body underneath......
Don't forget the people that are still there, in positions of power too, those that stood by (actually at my hearing) and watched the list of documents and actions below and on this post, the thing is the body underneath the plastic surgery is still the same....just got a face lift.....
Answer up to the past precedent of corruption.....or you have zero credibility or integrity.
-
I saw a gasfitter today, for the first time since my kangaroo court in 2009.....I told him some of the FACTS.......do you know what shocked me the most......he didn't bat an eye lid.....he said nothing surprises him....and that was why he was going to retiring early....can't wait to be out of it.....
This is the worst part about all this......there is an expectation that this is how you can be treated.....really?..... is this the way forward?
Will this help New Zealand? Will this help build the shortage of houses? Will it promote our trades? Will it grow any respect for our industry?......
I don't believe it will......
What it will do .......it empowers a very small minority, to screw over who ever they choose, when ever they choose.....
The worst part is, we do not only allow them to do this to us and our industry.......but we expect it!!!!!
REALLY?
-
The people who are responsible for this crap should be pulled out into the sunlight for public scrutiny, judged only on the facts.....let the public decide if this behaviour is helpful or wanted.
-
Give it a farkin rest mate!
Jesus!
-
Not going to happen, you might be able to live with corruption but I won't Kerry.
-
I can understand why some people feel that this has been done to death but, I agree with Badger. So would most people if they had dealt with the kangaroo disciplinary hearings that masquerade as justice. It is a real shame that it is so expensive to take a private prosecution.
-
well said Wombles,cheers
-
Thanks for your support guys, yes I have done this to death...but it has had a huge impact on my family and it SHOWS a complete sham of a process that anyone of you could face.
At the end of the day if you don't want to read it, then block me or just don't read it....but with this many views in public, it needs airing.
I did notice that old "spud" didn't comment until I talked about holding people to account....I been going on and on for years.
-
Yeah Badger it's hard to know how to get justice in this country just take the 'David Bain' case that has surfaced again today after many years of trying, cheers
-
Face it Robbo....the establishment do as they please....with little to no repercussions, mostly because they single out individuals for treatment, if we got together and showed them that it isn't acceptable then they soon flip flop and change.
Difference is mate, Mr Bain has is being told to prove his innocence..........
But I can prove that the investigation, process and people I was subjected to was corrupt and biased, done at a risk to the NZ public. Fact.
-
I have a problem with a governing Board, gifting a salesman a full certifying gas fitting license, then the same people allow this salesman to join an engineers group....
All the available proof points that he is so clueless that he installs and changes installs dangerously....so badly that it causes an explosion.....he faces a charge but it conveniently "disappears" before his hearing....
This same Board that gifted the license.....flippantly handing out these licenses to a select group......administers the gas safety certificate system so badly that it carries a disclaimer about accuracy.......still has to this day a case before it for the selling of 100's of blank, but signed certs being sold.....560 of them.....90% of these none compliant...with 16 potentially deadly......
These are the people who after I had proven 42 charges out of 44 charges were bullshit......went in my local area expressing their concerns about MY understanding of the regs and the fumes entering a building........they then go and ignore the exact same circumstances when an elderly couple actually make a complaint.......
And still to this day ignore a central heating job, installed by the same person gifted the licenses..... where the stagnant water stored all summer in the rads....comes out of the shower and other hot water outlets.......
-
Trying to raise funds to fight this corruption and risk to the NZ public, please share.....
http://givealittle.co.nz/profile/individual/justiceandfulldisclosure4nz
I will not use any donations made to this fund raising for anything other than lawyers fees, what is left after the law proceedings goes to the children hospital accommodation at Ronald McDonald house in CHCH.
-
I checked this out and I couldnt find anywhere to push a "button" to pledge. Any clues?
-
Just setting up the page mate....posted the link a bit prematurely ::)
-
22,000 views
-
I hope they don't shut this down......which will speak volumes eh?
Hi Paul Gee,
Congratulations on successfully creating your Givealittle Project page: justiceandfulldisclosure4nz
Your page is now ready to receive online pledges from your own networks but must pass the moderation process before it will publicly be available via the search and explore pages on Givealittle.
To get the fundraising kickstarted, consider making a pledge to your page now ? http://givealittle.co.nz/project/justiceandfulldisclosure4nz/pledge ? and then emailing the above page link to two carefully selected supporters to help you get the ball rolling. Givealittle requires the first 3 donations to a page as evidence of independent endorsement of trust and confidence in your fundraising activities.
Moderation Process Reminder
---------------------------
Our moderation process requires that all Givealittle pages:
1. comply with standards set out in the Givealittle Terms,
2. are reviewed and approved by the Givealittle service team,
3. receive 3 prerequisite donations from 3 unique donors before displaying in the Givealittle search and explore pages.
---------------------------
(See this link: Page Moderation and Donor Validation)
If you have any questions regarding moderation, please contact helpdesk@givealittle.co.nz.
-
The only thing stopping me exposing the threat to the NZ public is funds.....I got the proof, letters, photos evidence, handwriting experts, etc etc.....
Not one letter from the PGDB's lawyers saying I am telling untruths though!!!!!!!!
-
hi guys, Badger we will now know how many of our trades support the rank and file instead of big business b.s. that passes of as gods law, hope the site is up and running soon as all i can get is: 404 not found, good luck with it, might have to contact someone who can spread the word about the cause to generate interest, cant think of a similar give a little objective so could be ground breaking enough that the media will want to get involved, cheers
-
Just received tonight, below in blue, it will take a bit more setting up, wouldn't it be very telling if they shut this down before it starts.....or even if they were get caught asking to!
Hi there
Thanks for creating a page at https://givealittle.co.nz/project/justiceandfulldisclosure4nz
Before we moderate your page, I wanted to clarify with you that you wanted to create a project page:
A project page means the credit cards of your pledgers will NOT be charged and you will be paid only if you reach the target set within the specified end date.
If otherwise please advise and we will help you set up a cause page.
Cheers Robbo for your on going support mate, means heaps to me.
The way I see it is it is anonymous way to get behind this type of injustice... for ALL our sakes, it can really make those who pontificate to us about being competent and bringing the trade in to dispute face up to their history and dodgy dealings.....and actually protect the health and safety of NZer's homes, if there is a dodgy system covering dangerous work it needs to be aired.....tell the whole story to the NZ public and left them decide.
Also, I say it again so it is in writing..... if there is anything left of the donations made on this "give a little" fund raiser....after the legal action is paid for, then it goes to CHCH Ronald McDonald House.
-
I truly think that the NZ public deserve to know that their gasfitting in their homes has been done by people who are/were endorsed and empowered by the PGDB..........
....... gifted their licenses after one oral exam, issuing incomplete and dodgy certs, which were accepted and filed by the Board......These certs missing test results for gas leaks....
......then the Board letting people like this off and not pursuing blatant evidence AFTER someone nearly gets killed....in fact covering it up....
The Board denying the dodgy certs were even ever received.....ignoring the fact it appears on their defunct electronic register.....it is embarrassing....its an insult to every single tradesman who funds their gravy train....
The NZ public should know all this.....it is done in their name.....done for THEIR protection!!!!! what a crock of shite.....
Lets have it out in public....for the public......
-
This is my profile write up, just awaiting "verification".....
I am trying to raise funds to fund lawyers to expose corruption and incompetence done at a risk to the NZ public, carried out by people entrusted with the NZ public health and safety, but are prepared to ignore huge conflicts of interest, persecuting the innocent to protect the guilty. One person almost killed in an explosion with other NZer's put at risk.
I have a problem with a governing Board, gifting a salesman a full certifying gas fitting license, then the same people allow this salesman to join an engineers group....
All the available proof points that he is so clueless that he installs and changes installs dangerously....so badly that it causes an explosion.....he faces a charge but it conveniently "disappears" before his hearing....
This same Board that gifted the license.....flippantly handing out these licenses to a select group......administers the gas safety certificate system so badly that it carries a disclaimer about accuracy.......still has to this day a case before it for the selling of 100's of blank, but signed certs being sold.....560 of them.....90% of these none compliant...with 16 potentially deadly......
These are the people who after I had proven 42 charges out of 44 charges were unfounded......they then went in my local area expressing their concerns about MY understanding of the regs and the fumes entering a building........they then go and ignore the exact same circumstances when an elderly couple actually make a complaint.......
And still to this day ignore a central heating job, installed by the same person gifted the licenses involved in the near fatal explosion..... where the stagnant water stored all summer in the central heating radiators....then comes out of the shower and other hot water outlets.......
There is much much more to this and the NZ public deserve to know, their homes and families could be affected.
I am going to donate any left over money from the donations, after the cost of the lawyers are met, to the CHCH Ronald McDonald House, please take the time to read the huge amount of evidence I have posted on the link to the Plumbers forum.
-
Still waiting for verification......funny that!
-
Still waiting....
-
Just been watching the news tonight......about a guy who was "selling" dodgy driving licenses, a gentleman with the name Lovepreet Brar.....and the dismay expressed by the Government that there might be unqualified people masquerading behind these licenses issued by some people who work for the very organisation that is entrusted with this license issuing job......these licenses looking very authentic....so that public can't tell the difference.....
Apparently.....we need to look in to this asap, before someone gets hurt.....I mean issuing licenses to people who are incompetent, untrained and ..... well dicks really.....because they know someone who works there......risking peoples lives for selfish reasons......hmmmm where I have heard a similar situation like this before..........
Oh wait there now I remember....
Can anyone tell me the difference between the Board issuing a license to John Darnley?
Remember all the available evidence (and there is a lot) points to him being responsible for blowing at least one person up and then lets not forget the unresolved ticking time bomb of the legionnaires risk....not to mention all the other jobs.....
I wonder how much he paid for the license? 20 years of signing off gas work would be quite lucrative.....
Spot the difference, one is a guy with a very cool name and is a private entity.......the other is a government backed board.......
-
And know they are worried that this Lovepreet Brar was issuing heavy goods licenses people who have no idea how to drive large heavy vehicles....
Bit like granting a salesman who never sat an apprenticeship with a full gas certifying license after one oral exam and then allowing him to join an engineers industry group....but what if then this guy nearly killed someone in a gas explosion.....what dismay was expressed then........not a lot, they just frame someone else for it......there's a nice system we live in eh? nice and democratic....
.
-
Well the news is full of them this week.....a camera man leaves a tape recorder next to 2 politicians in a café having a cup of tea.....the camera man gets accused of doing this purposely......he thinks he is due 1.25 million dollars and the PM is willing to settle out of court....
I wish I was a camera man, not a gasfitter....I can prove not only was I set up and framed and lied about, but that the guilty walked free after nearly killing some one in an explosion.....oh to be a camera man, they are so integral to the running of NZ....so much more than plumbers and gasfitters.
Why are we shat on when every they like?
-
Severn Years ago today, the 9th of April, a man nearly died in an explosion.....evidence was withheld by the Board investigator and misrepresented and ignored....with 220k spent investigating me with only a further 30K approx. spent on the guy who all the evidence pointed to.
Charges disappearing before trial for the person who all the evidence pointed to.
Still waiting for my "give a little" page to be authenticated......
If you think you play on a fair level playing field with a neutral ref.....you're delusional.
-
Hi Guys please see the reply below, apparently the page for the "givealittle" donations is live, please could you test it and see if it works as it should.
I am hoping you will take this opportunity to force an issue that will give you all protection in the long run, to send a message to the powers that be, that cronyism and corruption isn't ok, that we all deserve to get a fair go and to be judged on a level and even playing field, looked over by an impartial system, with a search for truth and that the safety of the Kiwi public comes before who's mate you are.
Remember that any monies left over from covering the legal fees to force this issue, goes to CHCH Ronald McDonald House, a place I have used where real problems are dealt with, not some bullshit ones invented by a plumbers Board trying to justify their existence.
Please give what you can, every little helps.
Thank you in advance for your donations.
Hi Paul Gee,
This is an automated notification that Givealittle page: http://givealittle.co.nz/cause/justiceandfulldisclosure4nz has been moderated by the Givealittle service team.
Please note that your Givealittle page is active and you are able to share the above page link with your own networks in order to receive the minimum 3 donations required to complete the moderation process. Time to get sharing this page with generous folk!
http://givealittle.co.nz/cause/justiceandfulldisclosure4nz
-
http://givealittle.co.nz/cause/justiceandfulldisclosure4nz
If you Google this link, then it does go to the page, but it needs three donations to allow the link to be functional.
-
Well done Badger. I've made a small donation to help get it started and will make more later as we progress. It's a pity that yet again tradespeople have to pay to get fairness and accountability. When to we stop paying to protect the public?
-
Thank you very much Wal,
I really believe that if this is exposed for what it is, it will set a president for what the powers that be can do to us.....
....it is just plain wrong to protect a small cabal of people at a very real risk to the NZ public and at a cost of the innocent......
What sort of system do we want to work under?
I think it should be fair, transparent and above all else based on fact with a goal to protect the public and the integrity of the trade.....it is all very well to say this PGDB in your newsletter.....but lets see some action.
The Federation have been showing you the proper and true way for a long time now....lets see some real action, not just talk.
-
hi badger, any reason I get `404 not found` cheers
-
Hi Robbo,
Until I get the first initial three donations my "give a little" page won't be "live".....if you copy and paste the link into Google, then it comes up and it directs you to the donation page, then when the three initial donations are in then it should be accessible via this forum. I think, but I am a plumber, lol.
Thanks for your support.
-
HI BADGER, o.k. I can get to the givealittle site but what then lots of site choices I go no further, perhaps Wal can direct me,cheers
-
My Missis can't find it either, perhaps Wal could show us....or its been taken down....that would be weird eh?
-
https://givealittle.co.nz/cause/justiceandfulldisclosure4nz
Robbo copy and paste this link above in the URL at the very top mate of your screen, you could be the third donator, the one that makes it go live!...
Cheers mate
-
hi badger, worked that time and donated, will love to see them run for cover when the fund gets going,cheers
-
Thank you guys for the donations, it is up an running now, but if you use the link straight off this forum, it says "404
not found"
So just copy and paste the link into your web browser and it takes you right there.
http://givealittle.co.nz/cause/justiceandfulldisclosure4nz
Thanks again. 8)
-
https://givealittle.co.nz/cause/justiceandfulldisclosure4nz
-
http://givealittle.co.nz/cause/justiceandfulldisclosure4nz
This link is now working and functional, if I could just get a dollar a "view" then I would be able to hold those to account who have to date brought the trade into disrepute and risked the NZ public's health and safety in their homes, all done in your name as a license holder and kiwi, and endorsed by those who we trust to do the right thing and look after running this system.
It is anonymous if you wish and any request for privacy I will respect.
If people get away with this it sets a precedent....
The precedent we live under now is they can do what they like, shaft who they like and if they get exposed they can just change the faces and carry on, I believe this is wrong, and the way forward is to hold people to account, this will make people rethink any future actions, its about fairness and looking after the trade and the NZ public.
Please give what you can, any thing left over from the donations not spent on legal fees will go to the CHCH Ronald McDonald House.
-
Who ever you are thank you, for your donation, its quite humbling. Thank you.
-
http://coverupforanexplosion.blogspot.co.nz/2012/05/is-this-cover-up.html
This is a history I wrote a while ago, and just today Nick Smith is being criticised for the housing crisis on TV.....and he let this happen in his back yard to his constituents.....
Can you imagine if we carried out our duties and practiced our trade to these standards.
-
Thank you for the donation, very much appreciated, I don't know whether its ok to mention names on here, because I really do want to respect peoples privacy....all I can say is I'm not going to "Holden" for long.....thank you mate.
Don't forget guys these donations will go toward addressing corruption in our industry, which will help everyone get a fair go, or it will help people stay near there kids if they are sick enough to have to go to CHCH hospital and use the Ronald McDonald House.
My family have used these facilities and it really puts everything into perspective, it also makes you abhor people who inflict unnecessary hurt on others just to keep their dodgy mates safe and fill their pockets.
-
The Ombudsman has asked me for feed back on how they have appeared to have helped the PGDB cover up my witch-hunt......
Remember "Fairness for All".....lol, what a f****ing joke.....more like "Damage Control"....I showed them heaps of proof and they have shut it down.....nice bit of democracy there for you.......
I feel that the Ombudsman appears to be an agency for damage control for the government.
Where my very real concerns have been assessed, dissected then trivialized, ignored and then shut down, I make this comment based solely on my treatment, and am deeply disappointed in the system and the treatment I have received, but even more disappointed in how the powers that be are happy to ignore the very real threats to the NZ public's safety, just because the egos and reputations of those who are better connected is deemed more important.
The Ombudsman appears to be prepared to ignore massive conflicts of interest, ignoring blatant evidence that prove I was treated in a biased way and subjected to a witch-hunt.
Mr Patterson, the acting Ombudsman even prepared to contradict previous statements made when in another role, all done at a risk to the NZ public. And an ex-Ombudsman rang me and tried to dismiss this from the start. And my compliant was allowed to languish for years.
Somebody nearly died in an explosion, and it appears that the Ombudsman are part of the cover up. NZer's health and safety have been put at risk in their own homes and the PGDB have covered it up with the apparent blessing of the Ombudsman.
I suggest that, with all due respect, the Ombudsman's motto should be changed to "Fairness for all, as long as it suits".
I did once hold the Ombudsman in the highest regard, but this is very sadly not the case any more, I don't believe that this complaint will be chased up and nothing will happen to address this dire situation.
I have said this many times, for 6 years before an explosion nearly killed someone, and for 7 years since....sadly it will take a fatality or a serious incident for someone in authority to look at this.....I would have thought a near death in an explosion would have been enough, but sadly it appears that it will take more.
You have done the NZ public a disservice in your dealing with this case/complaint.
I would take this opportunity to formally complain again and have posted this reply on the "Plumber's Forum" where my thread has nearly 28 thousand views, I say this because if you ignore this, then you ignore this larger group of people as well and in public at that.
-
Hi Katrina,
Just to be clear I have also posted this below in black on the “Plumber’s Forum” link below, also see my blog on the link below, the thread has nearly 27 thousand views and to ignore this is to ignore the people who have viewed this thread aswell.
The Ombudsman can do better by actually looking at the blatant evidence and not ignore it, you will also find a wealth of evidence on this link below to back my claims.
I won’t hold my breath on any actual action, and expect ever more flannel and trivialisation of this, but I just want it in the open, so the powers can be can show the industry and public just how much they actually care, which it very little in my experience, if at all.
I would like to formally complain to the Ombudsman about how my complaint has been trivialised and ultimately ignored.
Thank you Katrina for you time, please can you pass on my comment to Mr Patterson, thank you.
Yours Sincerely Paul Gee
http://www.plumbers.co.nz/forum/fellow-practitioners-update/41/fellow-practitioner-issue-236-dated-12-december-2014/1810/msg10325#msg10325
http://coverupforanexplosion.blogspot.co.nz/2012/05/is-this-cover-up.html
I feel that the Ombudsman appears to be an agency for damage control for the government.
Where my very real concerns have been assessed, dissected then trivialized, ignored and then shut down, I make this comment based solely on my treatment, and am deeply disappointed in the system and the treatment I have received, but even more disappointed in how the powers that be are happy to ignore the very real threats to the NZ public's safety, just because the egos and reputations of those who are better connected is deemed more important.
The Ombudsman appears to be prepared to ignore massive conflicts of interest, ignoring blatant evidence that prove I was treated in a biased way and subjected to a witch-hunt.
Mr Patterson, the acting Ombudsman even prepared to contradict previous statements made when in another role, all done at a risk to the NZ public. And an ex-Ombudsman rang me and tried to dismiss this from the start. And my compliant was allowed to languish for years.
Somebody nearly died in an explosion, and it appears that the Ombudsman are part of the cover up. NZer's health and safety have been put at risk in their own homes and the PGDB have covered it up with the apparent blessing of the Ombudsman.
I suggest that, with all due respect, the Ombudsman's motto should be changed to "Fairness for all, as long as it suits".
I did once hold the Ombudsman in the highest regard, but this is very sadly not the case any more, I don't believe that this complaint will be chased up and nothing will happen to address this dire situation.
I have said this many times, for 6 years before an explosion nearly killed someone, and for 7 years since....sadly it will take a fatality or a serious incident for someone in authority to look at this.....I would have thought a near death in an explosion would have been enough, but sadly it appears that it will take more.
You have done the NZ public a disservice in your dealing with this case/complaint.
I would take this opportunity to formally complain again and have posted this reply on the "Plumber's Forum" where my thread has nearly 28 thousand views, I say this because if you ignore this, then you ignore this larger group of people as well and in public at that.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Katrina McLaughlin [mailto:Katrina.McLaughlin@ombudsman.parliament.nz]
Sent: Friday, 6 May 2016 2:23 p.m.
To: gasnsolarservices@gmail.com
Subject: Ombudsman Survey - Have your say - How can we do better?
image001-original
6 May 2016
Mr Paul Gee
gasnsolarservices@gmail.com
Dear Mr Gee
Have your say – how can we do better?
We are conducting a survey about our complaints process.
We would greatly appreciate your feedback, as your opinions are important to us. We intend to use the results of the survey to assist with staff training and the ongoing review of our service.
This survey should take no more than 5 minutes to complete. Almost all questions simply ask you to tick a box.
The focus of the survey is on the service we have provided. A summary of the results will be made available later this year in our annual report.
Your response will remain completely confidential. The information you give will be grouped together with responses from other people to ensure that individuals cannot be identified in any presentation or publication of the results.
If you have any questions about this survey, please call me on freephone 0800 802 602, or 04 473 9533.
Please complete the survey online at https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/LZFWRQP by 3 June 2016.
Thank you in advance for your assistance.
Yours sincerely
Katrina McLaughlin
Executive Assistant to the Deputy Ombudsmen
Office of the Ombudsman | Tari o te Kaitiaki Mana Tangata
-
Please complete the survey online at https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/LZFWRQP by 3 June 2016.
This link still works have your say! Comment of the Ombudsman's performance.....
Ask your self....and put your self in my position (literally, because if it goes unaddressed it could be you).........
Is it ok for "the" NZ agency for fairness , the Ombudsman, who claims to be apart/separate from the government.....decides to ignore a witch-hunt and cover up for an explosion, that nearly killed someone?
You know....where the person who (me) warned about dodgy certs for 6 years before an explosion, gets 220K spent on persecuting him and his young family, with only 30k spent on going after the person who ALL the evidence points to, this 30k guy facing a charge....for the explosion, but it disappears...poof....before his hearing....same bloke I spent 6 years trying to warn about.......
Is it fair for the PGDB to send child sexual abuse case notes to my home unmarked for my wife to read?
Or is it fair to send letters to prejudice every site of the 44 trumped up charges that claimed I was issuing illegal certs in Northland(a place I have never even visited)
Or is it fair to hide photos that prove my innocence until the hearing, with the investigator being in possession of these photos, over 100.... from the very start?
Or is it fair to appoint as the impartial investigator Tony Hammond as the investigator, the same guy who gifted the full certifying license to the person who all the evidence points to, you know the guy who faced a charge but it disappeared, the 30k guy....fair?
Or is it fair that the PGDB told the explosion victims lawyer that the cert missing the test for gas leaks, at this explosion....was never received.....apparently the only evidence of the Board receiving this dodgy cert is it is on their f****ing website and there is a date of entry.......BLAH VLAH BLAH BLAH....fair is it f****...
BECAUSE ALL OF THIS AND MORE.....WELL THE OMBUDSMAN HAS NO PROBLEM WITH ANY OF IT......
-
Mr Patterson is the Ombudsman.......I sent this years ago......
Dear Mr Patterson,
1. I am in receipt of your two letters dated 30 May and 13 June 2014. I also thank you for extending my time of reply.
2. I fear that I may not have made myself clear to you and your office. My complaint is not about the outcome of the biased and flawed hearing, although the outcome does warrant a complaint as it is un-founded and my advocates questioning of the investigator was halted by the conflicted Chair of the hearing when the Chair closed the hearing down, just as my advocate was cross examining Mr Hammond about the regulatory criteria relevant this very charge. And also in light of recent actions by the Board where there is a dubious double standard being applied by the Board in relation to clearances of califonts to openable windows, which I will go into further later on in this reply.
3. My complaint is about the flawed process and investigation I was subjected to by the Board and it’s so called “impartial” investigator. This same Board who are willing to ignore blatant conflicts of interest and the withholding and misrepresentation of evidence by their appointed so called “impartial” investigator. This is my complaint.
4. It concerns me greatly that it appears your office is blindly relying on spin, excuses and a 33 page report written by this Board and members of its Secretariat. It concerns me because these are the very people I have complained about, who have written a report to excuse themselves, is it confusing to say the least? It is a kin to they themselves judging themselves impartial, (an oxy-moron or very bad grammar to say the least), which apparently your office also has no problems with either.
5. In point 1 of your letter dated 30th May, it appears there is some confusion over my situation, I did not under any circumstances sit a prescribed course of “INSTRUCTION”, which implies, even demands the learning of new skills and knowledge, skills and knowledge that I was deemed by the Board to have lacked.
6. I was in fact ASSESSED…. learning nothing new (I am sure I could have learned from the assessor as he was very knowledgeable), but the “course” prescribed by the Board wasn’t available, and so I was assessed.
7. Of note I was told by this assessor that I would be within the top 10% of people he had ever assessed, this he discovered after my assessment, when I had not been taught anything new, but was being assessed on my already attained knowledge and skills (I did this assessment with my arm in a full plaster cast, perhaps this is where I dropped 10%). This is the same knowledge that I had used to position the califont. Your office is charged with seeing fair play served; do you think this is fair?
8. Of note, and this is the double standard that I mention above, the Board has recently told an elderly couple who complained about a similar installation of a califont, but their califont was positioned much nearer than the one mentioned above in my case, by some 6 inches. The Board told them to “close the window when you use it”.
9. This elderly couple have since withdrawn their complaint and are on anti stress medication due to this situation. I have promised to leave them out of this until it is vitally necessary because of this stress that they have been subjected to. This double standard shown by the Board, do you think it is fair?
10. This goes toward showing that the Board haven’t changed since my hearing and are still using one rule for one, and ignoring other rules for others; this double standard has only just came to light in recent weeks. Do you think this fair?
11. Of note the customer involved in my case, the customer subject of charges laid for a califont installation at Malvern Pl, had laid no complaint and had never in 6 years smelt any fumes, this is because the position of his califont was more open and had a better clearance to the floor, backing on to a very large open plan room and with its powered flue issuing into a much larger clear and open garden, this was all taken into account when I positioned it. But the califont where the Board has told the people to “close the window when you use it”, these poor people who have actually complained about fumes entering their home, their califont is positioned in a more enclosed area and is nearer the floor, backing on to much smaller rooms, which is a concern due to the availability of free air for the dilution of these flue gases, and the elderly couples califonts power flue is issuing into a more enclosed and partially covered area with a deck and railings to one side. Is this Fair Mr Patterson? Is the Board’s blasé flippant hypocrisy fair? This attitude of the Board is where my complaint lies, right here.
12. In point 2 of your letter of 30th May, you speak of my lack of attempts in airing my concerns and the use of a “British Standard” at the High Court Appeal. I ask you to look at the recent reply I have received from the High Court, a reply to my request for a transcript of this appeal.
13. Please also see my extensive written submission to the High Court, already supplied to your office.
14. This recent application for a transcript for my appeal was made to enable me to show you that I was told categorically to talk only about the distance from the window to the califont by Justice Kos and had actually tried to air my concerns. The reply to my recent transcript application is below.
From: Stack, Michaela
Sent: Tuesday, 3 June 2014 12:09
To: Paul & Emma Gee
Subject: RE: hearing transcrpit.
Mr Gee
Thank you for your email. As you are aware this matter was an "Appeal" hearing before the High Court. No witnesses were called to give evidence at the High Court hearing and the parties relied on written submissions to present their arguments to the Court. Therefore no transcript would have been made. It is usual procedure that no transcripts are taken for civil appeal hearings.
Therefore I am unable to provide any transcript.
Kind Regards
Michaela Stack
Deputy Registrar
Wellington High Court
email : michaela.stack@justice.govt.nz
15. My high lights in red above. As you know, I did make an extensive written submission for my appeal, which I have provided to your office, detailing my concerns that you say I did not submit. So in effect I did address this and other issues, and as I can take it is was read by Justice Kos, I do not know why it isn’t in his summing up.
16. All the testimony, evidence and opinions issuing from my impartiality hearing and my actual hearing. All given so much credence by the Board and by Justice Kos appear to be based solely on the foundation of the integrity and reliability of the Board’s appointed so called “impartial” investigator and his opinion, even down to the strict enforcement of an acceptable solution, a NON COMPULSORY acceptable solution.
17. I was told at my impartiality hearing that as Mr Hammond hadn’t been shown to have acted egregiously, that he was deemed to be suitable and the right person for the job, even in light of all the conflicts of interest I had raised.
18. I ask you Mr Patterson, is this investigator, who withheld forensic photos which proved my point that I had maintained for two years…. the same investigator who misrepresented evidence and was prepared to ignore his own huge conflicts of interest, is he suitable? Has he acted egregiously? Has he any integrity? Do you value his opinion? This where my complaint lies.
19. Is it fair that Mr Hammond’s colleague of many years, a Stephen Parker who was chair of my hearing, the same Chair who closed down this very hearing….. just as my advocate was cross examining Mr Hammond about the califont measurement from an openable window? This is the basis for my complaint.
20. It is the reliance on this one mans “opinion” by the involved authorities’, to base the whole ruination of my life, business and reputation, that I base my complaint.
21. I base my complaint on the Board’s willingness to ignore these blatant facts and cover for Mr Hammond….. well, after all, the Board did appoint Mr Hammond….the same Mr Hammond, an ex Board member, who lobbied for the deregulation of the gas industry and pushed for the self certification gas cert system, the same self certing system shown to be wanting……..by none other than John Darnley, my old boss…….the same John Darnley gifted his license by Mr Hammond, gifted to Mr Darnley with no formal training….who was also a fellow member of NZIGE and other gas groups with Mr Hammond, Mr Parker and Mr Bickers…..Please Mr Patterson explain to me why this is acceptable. Explain to me, if you explain nothing else, why this is acceptable and these blatant conflicts of interests should be ignored. Here is the heart of my complaint.
22. And so for your office to blindly rely on the Board’s excuses while they are ignoring the unsuitability of Mr Hammond is reason for concern. You are relying on the Board’s own spin for your reasons to not investigate, I believe this is unfounded and I will ask the human rights commission and perhaps even the leaders of our Commonwealth if they think this is reasonable. This same Board who have miss quoted me, told untruths about me and sent vile perverted case notes to my home. I will never let this lie and am in communication with a law firm to pursue this further if you decide to go on the path you appear to be following.
23. Is this conflicted and biased man, Mr Hammond, a reliable person for both the Board and Justice Kos, even the Ombudsman, to totally base their judgment on, up holding this last and final charge out of 44 trumped up charges? Is it fair for your office to listen to this man, to give him credibility? He has acted egregiously. This is my complaint.
24. Think on this, I feel it is relevant to you in a previous chapter in your life……As you are aware, I had spent 6 years warning about my old boss, about him altering my certs after I had signed them (not forging my signature as one of your letters has claimed).
25. As you know at one point I had a letter sent on my behalf in 2006 by Nick Smith MP, amongst many other attempts by myself to highlight the short comings of my old boss. Ironic, because I also have a photo of several Board members and the “later to be appointed” investigator pictured in 2006 along with my old boss at a NZIGE meeting, all of them paid up long serving members of the same club, and other clubs.
26. Basically I was, in 2006, complaining about my old boss, to the very Board members pictured with him in the very same year, all members of the same club, also present in this photo is the man later appointed to investigate the explosion AND who had awarded my old boss his full licence…along with the chair of my hearing Stephen Parker…..all in the same picture, all paid up members of the same group.
27. All of this contrary to Mr Hammonds own affidavit, an affidavit written about how well he knew my old boss and how many times he had met him, is Mr Hammond the right person for the job? Is it fair? This is where my complaint lies.
28. Nick Smith MP stated in a letter that if the Board had heeded my warnings then the explosion “could have been averted”, written two years after the explosion. Is it fair that I lost so much?
29. This is why I believe it may be relevant to you as I think you said it best in these comments attributable to a Prof Ron Patterson, I take it this is you…
Finding effective ways to raise concerns within the health (or may be gas) system is a particular concern. Too often, health professionals (or may be gasfitters) who attempt to do so lack institutional support and are met by denial and resistance. Even external inquiry bodies learn to expect re-litigation of findings by interested parties, denigration by critics, and revisionism by subsequent commentators who did not hear all the evidence and sometimes seem wilfully blind to it.
* My additions in blue and highlights in red and bold.
30. How about adding to this statement above, attributable to you…..These “raisers of concern” being set up and made a scapegoat when all that they had warned about comes to pass, nearly killing someone.
31. I ask you Mr Patterson. What is the difference between a patient’s health and safety to that of paying customer? Or are the rights of a gasfitter and his customer to be deemed less than that of a health professional and his patient? I did not get a fair hearing, this is my complaint.
32. Doesn’t a patient pay for a service from a health professional and in doing so should be able to expect to be kept safe and healthy after procuring these services, please explain to me the difference? I say this because a man nearly died in an explosion and NO ONE has been held accountable but I have been made the scapegoat.
33. Here’s an analogy for you. How does it sit with you if…….. a “health professional” was to be gifted his full practicing licence because he was a pharmaceutical salesman?........Then a well meaning, fully qualified health practitioner had aired concerns about the obvious lack of ability of this “gifted licence” holder for 6 years, and was later proven right in his concerns when a patient nearly died………but as the well meaning, fully qualified person had signed a prescription (which was manipulated after signing) and was made the scapegoat, by the very person who gifted the licence to the pharmaceutical salesman. Now apply this rational to mine and Mr Darnley’s situation. Is this fair? How would the author of the above excerpt, attributable to you, feel about this state of affairs?
34. All the evidence points to my old boss, he actually faced a charge for this explosion but it disappeared with no relevant questioning or a hearing. Is this fair?
35. I ask you, is it fair to base your opinion that my old boss was investigated thoroughly and adequately because the investigator said he did? This same investigator who was also his fellow member of NZIGE and the same person who gifted my old boss his licence…..the same investigator, who withheld forensic photos, misrepresented and ignored evidence? This same Mr Hammond who was willing to Ignore a third hose supplied to supply the two fryers, this third hose sold well after, months after, I left Allgas’s employ….this same hose being the very one that caused the explosion. Is this fair? This is where my complaint lies.
36. You mention the Board’s 33 page report. As you appear to have a copy please look at page 31, point 4.6…..I believe this double speak spin doctoring is part of the cover up and one of the root causes for making me a scapegoat, its plain to see for those willing to see. Cert 345138, a cert for the last, most recent work carried out at the site of the explosion, the same one mentioned in the Board’s 33 page report, this is also the same cert 345138 mentioned in the Dept Of Labour (DOL) original complaint.
37. The DOL author of this letter of complaint told my lawyer right at the beginning of this fiasco that, at no point, was my work of concern to DOL. I have since personally talked to Mr Windleburn; he has no problem with my work. To ignore this. This is where my complaint lies.
38. I ask you to read the DOL complaint and ask yourself who in this letter of complaint would a fair minded lay person think was more deserving of a thorough investigation.
• The fully trained Gas Service Engineer who had complained about Mr Darnley and dodgy certs covering dodgy work….for 6 years and came forward freely.
• Or the person gifted his licence with no formal training, whom the Board had received letters of concern about dodgy work covered by dodgy certs, who worked at the site of the explosion last but didn’t register the cert for this last work, i.e. a dodgy cert covering not only dodgy work…. but an explosion? I find it bizarre that a copy or cert 345138 was entered into the Board’s own website, but they claim not to have received a copy.
39. All available copies of cert 345138 lack the legal recording of a gas leak test, even the electronic version. With the only copy missing, the original. This is the only copy which was, in all probability, received by the Board.
40. I put it to you that it is possible that this original copy of 345138 was, in all probability disposed of and shredded when the Lawyers acting for the owners of the exploding chipshop asked for a copy of all gas safety certs for their gasfitting work carried out at their chipshop. Perhaps you could ask Belinda Greer, a worker for the Board.
41. Cert 345138 is actually mentioned by number in the DOL complaint. This is where my complaint lies.
42. I ask you in all fairness, if the person responsible for the last work installed at the exploding chipshop, the same person who according to the Board didn’t register this cert for this work with the Board. But he saw fit to issue a carbon copy to the customer, and even kept a carbon copy himself as the supplier and another copy himself as the certifying gasfitter. With this same cert 345138 that appears in the complaint by DOL by actual number, the same cert mentioned in 4.6 on page 31 of the Board’s report……how can this man, the person responsible for initiating cert 345138, face a charge for the explosion, but then that charge disappears with no relevant questioning, trial or hearing? These are per the Board’s own correspondence. I am happy to provide. It is here my complaint lies, this came to light days after the explosion and before the Board appointed an investigator.
43. I ask you Mr Patterson……..how would the Board look if they had openly accepted an incomplete gas safety certificate for the last work done at a site that then later exploded…..lacking of all things a gas leak test? How would the Lawyers for the chipshop owners have acted on such findings?
44. In ever more double standards a person involved in yet another case, a situation where there was a pre-signing of some 560 blank certificates, which were on sold, including to unqualified lay persons, with 90% of the work covered by these blank certs done against regulation and non compliant…..with some 16 very dangerous, with the signatory on record as saying he signed and checked every job. What would you think if someone involved in this fiasco, probably the signatory of these blank certs…..still has charges before the Board some 5 years later? Is this fair? These double standards, this is where my complaint lies.
45. The Board are also willing to ignore a potential fraud and manipulation of gas certs to cover dangerous work, this was discovered at my hearing, the Board did nothing. Is this fair? This is yet another double standard and is where my complaint lies.
46. The list of poor performance is long and deserves a proper independent investigation. It does not deserve for the Board to be apparently protected and sheltered by those, like yourself, who would take all that the Board say on face value and fall for their spin doctoring and double speak, this is a mistake. I was told by Mr Christopher Littlewood that all you could do was make a recommendation……please recommend that a proper, fair and independent investigation is held, I will do the rest, along with the support of over 1000 members of the Plumbers Federation.
Thank you for your consideration and time. Please can you tell me when I might receive a reply, it has been nearly an year and a half since my original complaint.
Best Regards Paul Gee
-
So the Ombudsman has no problem with this blatant conflict of interest.......
21. I base my complaint on the Board’s willingness to ignore these blatant facts and cover for Mr Hammond….. well, after all, the Board did appoint Mr Hammond….the same Mr Hammond, an ex Board member, who lobbied for the deregulation of the gas industry and pushed for the self certification gas cert system, the same self certing system shown to be wanting……..by none other than John Darnley, my old boss…….the same John Darnley gifted his license by Mr Hammond, gifted to Mr Darnley with no formal training….who was also a fellow member of NZIGE and other gas groups with Mr Hammond, Mr Parker and Mr Bickers…..Please Mr Patterson explain to me why this is acceptable. Explain to me, if you explain nothing else, why this is acceptable and these blatant conflicts of interests should be ignored. Here is the heart of my complaint.
-
Finding effective ways to raise concerns within the health (or may be gas) system is a particular concern. Too often, health professionals (or may be gasfitters) who attempt to do so lack institutional support and are met by denial and resistance. Even external inquiry bodies learn to expect re-litigation of findings by interested parties, denigration by critics, and revisionism by subsequent commentators who did not hear all the evidence and sometimes seem wilfully blind to it.
This statement above was apparently written by the Ombudsman, before he was the Ombudsman.....I added the comments about gas in brackets....
But this same concerned and apparently "stand up" guy..... when he is actually granted the position and entrusted with the ability to actually help with these "particular concerns" all be it in a different context....well he gets his broom and lifts the carpet.....in my mind this is hypocrisy....
Perhaps the health industry is more important than the plumbers industry....but the root of this hypocrisy, in my mind, is that the giant elephant in the room is that the end result of who are actually put at risk in these two situations is that the NZ public's health is put at risk .........
Makes you think doesn't it....perhaps it is the Doctors that are more important than plumbers.....this is not democracy and equality and the previous words become empty.
Unless of course we live in tiered system with us at the bottom, which is what I am lead to believe.... by how we are screwed over, paying for it as we go to boot.
-
I spent 6 years trying to highlight dodgy certs covering dodgy and dangerous work 6 years BEFORE the explosion.......
Now read the empty words......
Finding effective ways to raise concerns within the health (or may be gas) system is a particular concern. Too often, health professionals (or may be gasfitters) who attempt to do so lack institutional support and are met by denial and resistance. Even external inquiry bodies learn to expect re-litigation of findings by interested parties, denigration by critics, and revisionism by subsequent commentators who did not hear all the evidence and sometimes seem wilfully blind to it.
Mr Patterson is now the "subsequent commentator", who appears WILLFULLY blind to ALL this evidence.......and he leads the last bastion of fairness within our system....
How does this bode for our expectations of ever getting fairness.....ever.....
APPARENTLY, AT THE BOTTOM OF THE PILE.....FAIRNESS IS ALLOCATED AND DISHED OUT WHEN IT SUITS.....
THE OMBUDSMAN........FAIRNESS FOR ALL......IF IT SUITS.....
-
How you apply fairness is the real test, not what you say but what you do, words are just words without action, I believe the real test is how you apply fairness to those less connected, those smaller than the rest.....how you treat the weak.....
If you only provide "fairness" to the strong and connected..... you are not applying fairness at all.....you are applying partiality, you are bullying the weak, you are putting the weak at a disadvantage, you are weighting and slanting the field.....
This is so wrong on so many levels.
-
Copy and paste this link.....
http://inthehouse.co.nz/node/18161.
Watch this link from a few years ago, the local MP for Nelson actually agrees on the corruption........Ms Street sums it up quite nice.....then they still rushed through Parliament the bill that allowed the illegal taking of two million bucks off us........
Fairness for who?
-
Sent tonight......if people think that I will let this go then they are more delusional than those that think we get a fair go and play on an even playing field and believe me they are right out there.....
Dear Mr Little,
Please see below some links to the “Plumbers Forum” it has nearly 28 thousand views to date and also a blog I have circulated that gives a brief background of the corruption levelled on my family by the PGDB.
http://www.plumbers.co.nz/forum/fellow-practitioners-update/41/fellow-practitioner-issue-236-dated-12-december-2014/1810/msg10325#msg10325
http://coverupforanexplosion.blogspot.co.nz/2012/05/is-this-cover-up.html
I wrote late last year, please see the email below; please can you help me and my family.
We continually live with the stigma of this corruption every day; I am forced to work out of my industry everyday just to make ends meet. I am reminded every day that I am new to this new industry and at the age of 44, I am a trainee and that I am at the bottom of the pile.
What do I have to do to get a fair go?
My young families life was turned upside down by a bunch of corrupts. It appears that my only crime was to try and warn about dodgy gas work being covered by dodgy gas certs for 6 years before someone got hurt, then lo and behold……when my fears actually came to pass with a near fatal explosion….and was covered by a very dodgy certificate. I even named the person who all the evidence points to for the explosion in my warnings made 6 years before the explosion.
But I was blamed, set up and made the scape goat. I will not let this be my legacy to my sons; sadly it appears only extreme measures get any traction these days.
I have a massive amount of evidence and correspondence which I am happy to put at your disposal if you will just look into it and judge it on the facts. Kiwis have been put at risk (and I believe still at risk), just to protect the egos and reputations of some very corrupt people……this is wrong on so many levels.
I have tried Mr Key, but he used his recent mantra…..that he has passed it to the minister responsible……who is Dr Smith of Nelson, where the explosion happened….. in Dr Smiths own back yard…… to his own constituents…..still nothing has been done. Dr Smith actually in writing, initially backed me up…..until he got his “good friend” (Dr Smiths words) on to the Board….then he wanted nothing to do with it.
Still to this day no one has been held accountable for the explosion, even in the presence of over whelming damning evidence……the person who all this evidence points to could have been asked at his hearing……but even though he faced a charge for the explosion…….the charge disappeared before his hearing……how does that happen Mr Little?
Please can you help us?
Yours Sincerely Paul Gee
-
Received today, see what comes of it....
Thank you for your email.
We have passed it to Labour's Building and Construction spokesperson, Phil Twyford MP,
for consideration.
Many thanks for taking the time and trouble to write
Yours sincerely
Dinah Okeby
Office of the Leader of the Opposition
Authorised by Andrew Little MP, Parliament Buildings, Wellington
labour.org.nz
-
I must drop Judith a line when she gets back....
Judith Collins
6 May, 2016
Police Minister to attend London Anti-Corruption Summit
Police Minister, Judith Collins will represent the Prime Minister at the London Anti-Corruption Summit being hosted by UK Prime Minister David Cameron on 12 May 2016.
The Summit will promote the importance of exposing corruption, punishing those responsible and supporting those who have suffered, and driving out the culture of corruption, where it exists.
“The Summit is an opportunity to promote New Zealand’s reputation as one of the least corrupt countries in the world and demonstrate our commitment as a responsible member of the international community,” says Ms Collins.
World leaders from the G20, as well as other nations who face challenges with corruption, will agree a package of practical steps to counter corruption at the Summit.
New Zealand has recently taken steps to combat corruption. Last year Parliament passed the Organised Crime and Anti-corruption Legislation Bill in November 2015, which enabled New Zealand to ratify the United Nations Convention Against Corruption.
Prime Minister Cameron is also inviting the leaders of the world’s major international institutions that play a key role in anti-corruption efforts around the globe.
While there, Ms Collins will call on the Victims’ Commissioner for England and Wales, the Commissioner of the Metropolitan Police, the Under Secretary of State for Prisons and the Director of the SFO. Ms Collins will also visit a prison.
Ms Collins returns to New Zealand on 16 May 2016.
-
Apparently.....
The Summit will promote the importance of exposing corruption, punishing those responsible and supporting those who have suffered, and driving out the culture of corruption, where it exists.
Then I can write to the United Nations eh?
I got a funny feeling it don't apply to us plebs, just Nigeria.....
-
So.....
New Zealand has recently taken steps to combat corruption. Last year Parliament passed the Organised Crime and Anti-corruption Legislation Bill in November 2015, which enabled New Zealand to ratify the United Nations Convention Against Corruption.
But is ok to allow to allow Tony Hammond to be appointed as an investigator , against my many complaints about his conflicts of interest, where he misrepresents evidence, makes untrue affidavits and withholds over 100 forensic photos, all the evidence points to John Darnley, the same John Darnley who Tony Hammond gifted a full certifying gas license to.
John Darnley faces a charge for the explosion but it disappears before Darnley's hearing, all the evidence points to Darnley.
I end up being made the scape goat at a hearing overseen by Stephen Parker, Tony Hammond's colleague for many years and members of the same industry groups...Stephen shuts down the hearing just as we are pushing Hammond on the last of the charges, this is the only charge that I was found "guilty of" out of 44.....no one is held responsible for the explosion.
Nick Smith backs me until he gets his "good friend " on to the Board, this same guy goes in my local paper and further slates me after the hearing.....for an "offence" that Board decides to ignore just months later. All of these people mentioned above are members of the same industry groups.
After my hearing I find that the Board knew about a gas cert issued for the last work done at the site of the explosion, the cert is missing a test for leaks....at the site of an explosion....claimed to have never been accepted/received by the Board...even though it appears on their FoxPro system.....
So they appoint as the investigator, Tony Hammond to investigate this explosion....the same guy who lobbied heavily for the self cert system, and the same tony who gifted Darnley the gas certing license......
Where's my dictionary........must look up what corruption means.......
I lost my trade and way to provide for my family, after warning for 6 years about Darnley....BEFORE THE EXPLOSION...
Until I clear my name, I can't have my life back......I am reminded about this every day, every day I am reminded I am new to a new industry, a trainee at 44 years of age.
-
I would have thought that a country that ranks so highly in the anti corruption tables would protect that ranking and practice what they preach.....stamping out this sort of corruption.....but it seems the Establishment is above corruption.....but isn't that corrupt? Isn't that the epitome of corruption?
Apparently the rules only reply to us......
-
Badger, by now you will have realised that the govt does not do as it says, that the actions almost never match the election promises. Dont hold your breath for any honesty from those in power.
-
Totally mate I couldn't agree more Wombles.....but bad people will always get away with it if good people just stand by and watch.
I have always been stood up talking, instead of sat down watching.
I also have a wealth of evidence and a very public paper trail if I loose the plot and go mental, lol ;).
-
Just to recap then....
In Allgas's own words, attached is letter of my term of employment, this was all in the possession of the Investigator. I worked for these dodgy people from 24th Feb 2003 to 2nd Dec 2003.
So how could I have fitted the hose sold on 21st Jan 04, the original install was done June 03, this is the hose that caused the explosion, sold after I left, you'll notice the receipt looks like it was taken from a bound set of documents, that's because it was taken from the "bundle" for my hearing, the Board's bundle.
Also in the third attachment you'll see some one asking, in my name, for the Board to alter a cert in March 2004, three months after I left.
All of this evidence was in the Board's possession before my hearing, but it was Darnley who's charge for the explosion disappeared before his hearing, whereas I was subjected to a hearing where evidence was withheld, lying letters sent to my customers and plenty of public slating in the local paper.
-
Somebody nearly died in an explosion and they do this?
-
And here in the previous Registrars own words......the disappearing charge, for the explosion.
No body has been able to explain to me how, in the face of undeniable and blatant evidence, can a charge just disappear before a hearing......how does that happen?
Any takers?
-
These are the words of the guy who nearly died in the explosion.......and yes I will go on and on about this because it is so very wrong......
My emphasis in bold......
A fish and chip shop owner injured in a gas explosion last year blames shoddy workmanship for the explosion which cost him his health, his confidence and his livelihood.
Ron Clark had to flee his Nelson fish and chip shop and spent two weeks in intensive care.
"An enormous bang, the wall went, the roof went, I'm standing there and the skins coming off my legs," says Mr Clark.
It took six months to rebuild the shop but he says it was all too stressful and he could no longer work. Mr Clark estimates between making a loss in selling the shop and the shortfall in rebuilding, he's more than $120,000 out of pocket.
"Basically I couldn't keep business going, it was all too much. You end up having to sell it and get out. eight years of work down the toilet."
The issue of gas certification was highlighted recently by the sacking of chief executive Philip Routhan, who claimed there were potentially hundreds of faulty gas installations in New Zealand.
"These guys get away with bloody murder, doesn't do his job, gets fired, goes back and says I want my job back. Well I'd like my shop back, I'd like my life back, Id like my health back, you know there are a lot of things I'd like back," says Mr Clark.
Mr Routhan's attempt to get his job back was rejected.
"If the authorities don't check the certification of all of these things then we might as well be living in a third world country."
The Department of Labour laid a complaint with the Plumbers, Gasfitters and Drainlayers Board after the blast," says Mr Clark.
The board says it's now completed its investigation and two men, aged 53 and 38, are due to appear at a Disciplinary Tribunal hearing in February.
-
The board says it's now completed its investigation and two men, aged 53 and 38, are due to appear at a Disciplinary Tribunal hearing in February.
.......but the 53 year old faced a charge for the explosion.....AND IT DISSAPEARED......the 38 year old (me ) had evidence and photos misrepresented and withheld....with most if not all evidence points to the 53year old (Darnley).
It mentions in these comments from the poor guy who watched his skin fall off and spent two weeks in intensive care, he mentions certificates......and the ex ceo (old Routhan) says there are 100's of dodgy certs.......
The last cert for the explosion issued was missing the "test for leaks" field, it was blank, but it was apparently accepted by the Board......I say apparently because they deny ever having received it......
BUT IT APPEARS ON THEIR WEBSITE CERT HAVE A LOOK FOR YOURSELF........CERT 345138
-
In the words of the Board's lawyer.......
From: Melanie Phillips [mailto:melanie@pgdb.co.nz]
Sent: Wednesday, 11 May 2011 4:13 p.m.
To: Paul & Emma Gee
Cc: Wal Gordon
Subject: RE: Paul Gee
Hi Paul
Please see attached Belinda’s file note of her request to John Darnley for a copy of certificate 345138. This occurred after she was contacted by lawyers acting for the owner on 17 April 2009 requesting copies of all gas certificates relating to 136 Milton Street.
Also attached is a copy of the certificate received which, as you will see, is of quite poor quality.
Please let me know if you need any more information.
Regards
Mel
From: Melanie Phillips[mailto:melanie@pgdb.co.nz]
Sent: Wednesday, 11 May 2011 3:22p.m.
To: Paul & Emma Gee; WalGordon
Subject: RE: Paul Gee
Hi Paul
I have just gone back through the file and can confirm that the Board never received a pink copy of certificate345138. The only copy the Board has is a photocopy of the certifier’s copy, which you produced as exhibit PG007 together with a copy of the gas suppliers copy.
I see notes from Belinda Greer on the file that the Board copy of certificate 345138 was received after the explosion in 2009, I think from the Department of Labour.
I’m sorry I can’t help you further.
Regards
Mel
-
I am yet to receive a reply to this email.....
From: Paul & Emma Gee [mailto:gspservices@xtra.co.nz]
Sent: Sunday, 29 May 2016 8:27 a.m.
To: 'Registrar'
Cc: 'Wal Gordon'
Subject: OIA Request
Dear Registrar,
By means of an Official Information request please can I get the contact details of Mr Clark’s law firm? For clarity this is Ron Clark the poor man involved in the explosion at Milton Street, the lawyer mentioned in the comment below from the attachment.
This occurred after she was contacted by lawyers acting for the owner on 17 April 2009 requesting copies of all gas certificates relating to 136 Milton Street. .
Regards Paul Gee
-
The investigator says he saw the original.......see attached......
-
Copied from the PGDB website today.....
Gasfitting certificates are a legal document. Under the Gas Regulations, a gasfitter must provide a signed copy of the certificate to the consumer and the Board. There are strict time frames around when these certificates must be filed online by the gasfitter. Within ten working days of the work being commissioned a certificate must be filed. An additional allowance of five days is given for the certificate to reach the consumer. The certifying gasfitter is required to keep a copy of the certificate for seven years.
Now the guy who faced a charge but it disappeared (Darnley).....in the Board's own words.....issued carbon copies of a cert to the consumer, himself twice (as he was the gasfitter AND the gas supplier), but didn't send one to the Board (which I believe is total bollox because the cert appears on the electronic register)........and it ends in an explosion........
So after this near fatal explosion, that made the blast victim watch his own skin peel off, the guy who most ( if not every scrap of) evidence points to.....faces a charge bit it DISSAPEARS before his hearing.......how does that happen?
-
Apparently the ONLY evidence available that the Board received (and if this is true lets not forget accepted ) an incomplete gas safety cert, that resulted in an explosion.......missing test results of all things.......
I got to ask, do you need any more evidence of receiving this cert.......but even if we take the Board at their word (lol)......
Darnley did the last work at a site and didn't register the cert with the Board, but he did issue the cert to the customer then it blew up. And this is in the Board's own words......but he faced a charge but it disappeared.......HOW DOES THAT HAPPEN?
-
You'll notice that cert 299760 has the same "missing" status......funny that because that misses the leak test too.....I got 33 pages of this bullshit, issued by Max Pederson, the old registrar, the new one won't even talk to me, funny that.
-
If this system isn't used fairly......how can you protect anyone?..... whether it is the customer or the tradesman, and if it goes unaddressed then a precedent is set, and believe me if these people can protect themselves at the expense of anyone of you they most certainly will.
-
Now there are people out there, and I have met them……… (not to mention been threatened to my face by them)……….
Well they think “I brought all this on my self for winding up other better connected plumbers”......
Their reasoning for this........
For trying to warn about dodgy certs covering dangerous work done in PEOPLE’S HOMES, LIVES AND BUSINESS'....
Ironically, this was when I tried to get this sorted BEFORE the explosion....for 6 years to be exact.....
Apparently I am a cheeky little immigrant; I can hear them now.....who does he think he is.....
I put it to you bullies and spineless backroom deal merchants......
HOW IS IT THAT THIS CHEEKY LITTLE IMMIGRANT HAD MORE COMPASSION AND CARED MORE FOR THE HEALTH AND SAFETY OF THE NZ PUBLIC AND THE INTEGRITY OF THE TRADE THAN THE BOARD AND ITS CRONIES?
Who and what would be better for everyone else…the ones filling their own pockets at the trade’s and everyone else’s detriment and risk, or the people trying to do the right thing……
Here's a story for you…sadly a true one.....
A chipshop owner paid for the services of a certifying gasfitter, he trusted the system…..
What he got was an untrained gas salesman empowered by the Board and an engineering group to give the impression that this “salesman” was an expert in gasfitting.
When it went terribly wrong and this shop owner was involved in an explosion, then he watched his skin peel off his legs, spent two weeks in intensive care and lost his business….
Well the same people who gave this poor soul the impression he was employing an “expert”….... they go cover it up and try to frame an innocent person…….and still do to this day.
-
Who would you back, who would you rather stand by, who would be better for the NZ public?
Some one who could see there was a problem and spoke out? Bearing in mind that was gaining quite an income out of fixing these dangerous f**** ups that endangered the public and it did my reputation no harm to be the "go to" guy to fix this dangerous work, like the time I isolated a fire that was turning the ceiling of a living room black from soot and the owner said don't turn it off my 6 year old daughter loves the fire, SHE GOES OUT LIKE A LIGHT IN FRONT OF IT!!!!! .........FFS its carbon monoxide poisoning....or the time when the commercial extractor fan was turned on in a restaurant kitchen that caused the flames of the living flame fire go up the front of the fireplace and suck the fumes in to the restaurant....I could go on and on (and I will).....
OR
The goon squad that cover up an explosion, protect their "connected" cronies and couldn't give a shit about who they trample over or who they make a scape goat for THEIR f**** ups?
Who would you stand next to?
-
Now I have complained to the Ombudsman, see below with attachments, I have complained before and our "Office for Fairness For Everyone"........ appear to "not" want to touch it......Bearing mind they have all this info/evidence and have received complaints......
Fairness for who?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Paul & Emma Gee [mailto:gspservices@xtra.co.nz]
Sent: Sunday, 12 June 2016 11:25 a.m.
To: 'Info'
Cc: 'Wal Gordon'; 'Registrar'
Subject: FW: OIA Request
Dear Ombudsman,
I would like to lodge a complaint against the PGDB for ignoring an OIA request I lodged with them many weeks ago, please see below.
I have received no reply what so ever. I was under the impression that I was to receive a reply within a set time frame. Please can you let me know if there is to be any action by your office?
This involves an explosion that the Board would rather was brushed under the carpet; the Board “confirm that the Board never received a pink copy of certificate345138”, (my emphasis). Ironically a copy of this cert appears on their website and they offer the strange and contradictory explanation that the only evidence it was ever received was that it was entered on their website, even giving the exact date and time, please see attached page 30 from a 33 page report issued by the PGDB. I do not believe you need any further evidence of them receiving this cert 345138, it is impossible otherwise. It even appears in the original DOL complaint, by its number 345138.
It is of note that the original copy of cert 345138 which is “missing”…… lacks a record of the test results for a leak test. This cert was issued for the last work done at the site of an explosion. A huge amount of evidence points to a person, a John Darnley, who faced a charge for this explosion, but this charge then disappeared before Darnley’s trial. As your office deals with fairness, I ask you is this fair, and how would this come about in a legal context?
I ask you how would the PGDB look if they accepted an in complete cert for the site of an explosion? There are many more of these certs, incomplete and accepted by the PGDB. These other certs still need to be addressed.
I would complain to your office that this is a cover up and that corrupt actions have taken place, all done at a risk to the public of NZ.
Yours Sincerely Paul Gee
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Paul & Emma Gee [mailto:gspservices@xtra.co.nz]
Sent: Sunday, 29 May 2016 8:27 a.m.
To: 'Registrar'
Cc: 'Wal Gordon'
Subject: OIA Request
Dear Registrar,
By means of an Official Information request please can I get the contact details of Mr Clark’s law firm? For clarity this is Ron Clark the poor man involved in the explosion at Milton Street, the lawyer mentioned in the comment below from the attachment.
This occurred after she was contacted by lawyers acting for the owner on 17 April 2009 requesting copies of all gas certificates relating to 136 Milton Street. .
Regards Paul Gee
-
And here are the some of the replies that I have received from our "Office of Fairness.... if it suits".......
Now these are just some of the replies I have, I have one where the Ombudsman says that they must respect the privacy of the complainants....so that they are not deterred from coming forward with their complaints....believe it or not this is the elderly couple who complained about the fumes entering their home, but was told by the PGDB to "close the window when you use the califont".....this califont was nearer than the one I fitted and my customers hadn't complained......
These people might need to look up "Fairness" in the dictionary......
.
-
Please see my reply to the Ombudsman "office of convenient fairness".........check the dates I wrote this below over a year before receiving those limp replies attached in my other post below.....this letter was written in reply to the first fob off given by the Office of Fairness for Some" in July 2014, the other replies from the Ombudsman below received in Oct 2015..............
Now these guys are here to ensure fairness and to be independent from the Govt.....you decide I think it is total bollox myself......
From: Paul & Emma Gee [gasnsolarservices@gmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, 12 July 2014 8:11 p.m.
To: 'Info'
Cc: 'Wal Gordon'; 'Allan Day'; 'Colleen Upton'; 'Lyndon Moffitt Building Ltd'
Subject: Ref 310809
Attachments: Doc 1 OIA Complaint for cert 696383.htm; Doc 2 OIA request for Board's action in a fatality.htm; Doc 3 Photos of califonts.doc; Doc 4 Nick Smith's Letter 160411.pdf; Doc 5 Maryan Street letter.jpg; Doc 6 Keynote Speaking Notes Ron Patterson.pdf; Doc 7 Disappearing charge.jpg; Doc 8 3rd hose receipt.jpg; Doc 9 Excerpt from the forensic report by David Neale.doc; Doc 10 Pg 31 from report.gif; Doc 11 DOL Complaint pg 1.jpg; Doc 11 DOL Complaint pg 2.jpg; Doc 12 letter requesting to change a legal doc, 3 months after resign.jpg; Doc 13 Conformation of the non registration of pizza oven cert.doc; Doc 14 5 years to take action.jpg; Doc 15 OIA fraud reply 23 1 14.jpg
Dear Mr Patterson,
Ref 310809.
I am in receipt of your two letters dated 30 May and 13 June 2014. I also would like to take the opportunity to thank you for extending my date of reply.
I fear that I may not have made myself clear to you and your office. My complaint is not about the outcome of the biased and flawed hearing and slanted investigation.
My complaint is about the flawed and biased investigation and the subsequent stacked hearing that I was subjected to by the Board and it’s so called “impartial” investigator, the Board’s words not mine. This same Board who are willing to ignore blatant conflicts of interest and firm evidence that points to my old boss and are quite happy with the withholding and misrepresentation of evidence by their appointed so called “impartial” investigator. This is my complaint.
It concerns me greatly that your office appears to be putting so much emphasis and weight on the 33 page report written by the Board and Secretariat, who of course will have put a great deal of effort into excusing themselves. This is confusing to say the least. It is a kin to they themselves judging themselves impartial, (an oxy-moron and very bad grammar to say the least), which apparently no one has any concerns with either.
In point 1 of your letter dated 30th May, it appears there is some confusion over my situation, I did not sit a prescribed course of “INSTRUCTION”, which implies, even demands, the learning of new skills and knowledge, skills and knowledge that I was deemed by the Board to have lacked.
I was in fact ASSESSED…. learning nothing new. I am sure I could have learned a lot from the assessor as he was very knowledgeable, but the “course” prescribed by the Board wasn’t available, and so I was assessed. As this "punishment" imposed by the Board did not exist, I was forced to pay someone to assess me and this then imposed yet further additional costs.
Of note I was told by this assessor that I would be within the top 10% of people he had ever assessed, this he discovered after my assessment, when I had not been taught anything new. I was assessed on my already attained knowledge and skills (I did this assessment with my arm in a full plaster cast; perhaps this is where I dropped 10%). This is the same knowledge that I had used to position the califont. Your office is charged with seeing fair play served; do you think this is fair?
Are double standards fair? Is it fair to have been financially forced to sell my home, to have lost my business and reputation and been subjected to a witch-hunt when it appears that there is no consistency in the actions and findings of the Board? They appear to apply certain rules for some and ignore the same rules for others.
Of note, and this is why I requested an extension in my time of reply, I have recently been made aware that the Board has received a complaint from an elderly couple who complained about an installation of a califont, this califont was positioned much nearer than the califont in my one and only standing charge, by some 6 inches to two openable windows.
I have been told that the Board’s advice to them was to “close the windows when you use it” and did not pursue it any further. I have requested a clarification of this to the Board in the form of an OIA request, Doc 1 in attachments. I have copied your office in to this OIA request, as well as another OIA request to see if they have taken any action in the case which involved the very sad situation of a young lady losing her life; her horrific situation is to be found on this link, http://www.maoritelevision.com/news/national/native-affairs-lesleys-legacy. Doc 2 in attachments.
I ask you Mr Patterson is this Board effective? Which way do you think the Board will lead our industry and protect our public with these mixed and conflicting messages? What messages are they sending the people of this country when in one explosion they are willing to let it go with no one held accountable, even though there is evidence that indicates someone? And in another explosion, that actually took the life of an innocent, as far as I am aware, do nothing.
I am told that this distraught elderly couple, mentioned above, have since withdrawn their complaint and are on anti stress medication due to this terrible situation. Do these people in their twilight years deserve this? I have promised to leave them out of this until it is vitally necessary because of this stress that they have been subjected to. This double standard shown by the Board, do you think it is fair?
This goes toward showing that the Board haven’t changed since my hearing and are still using one rule for one, and ignoring other rules for others; this double standard has only just come to light in recent weeks. Do you think this fair?
Of note the customer involved in my case, the customer who owned the dwelling that was subject to charges laid for a califont installation at Malvern Av, had laid no complaint and had never in 6 years smelt any fumes, this is because the position of his califont was more open to a cross air supply and had a greater clearance to the floor, their califont was placed under one restrained opening window (only opening to 100mm as it was restrained by safety chains). This window opening into a very large open plan room and with its powered flue issuing into a much larger, clear and open garden, this was all taken into account when I positioned it. Fitted 40 mm over the 500mm minimum from the window, as per the tech note I had.
But the califont where the Board has apparently told the people to “close the window when you use it”, these poor people who have actually complained about fumes entering their home, their califont is positioned in a more enclosed area and is much nearer the floor, fitted under two windows that open, unrestrained, to much smaller rooms, (which is a concern due to the availability of free air, i.e. volume, for the dilution of these flue gases), and the elderly couple’s califonts power flue is issuing into a more enclosed and partially covered area with a deck and railings to one side. Is this Fair Mr Patterson? Is the Board’s apparent blasé flippant hypocrisy fair? This apparent attitude of the Board is where my complaint lies, right here. Doc 3 in attachments for photos of the califonts positioning.
In point 2 of your letter of 30th May, you speak of my lack of attempts in airing my concerns and the use of a “British Standard” at the High Court Appeal. I ask you to look at the recent reply I have received from the High Court, a reply to my request for a transcript of this appeal.
Please also see my extensive written submission to the High Court, already supplied to your office.
This recent application for a transcript for my appeal was made to enable me to show you that I was told categorically to talk only about the distance from the window to the califont by Justice Kos and had actually tried to air my concerns. The reply to my recent transcript application is below.
From: Stack, Michaela
Sent: Tuesday, 3 June 2014 12:09
To: Paul & Emma Gee
Subject: RE: hearing transcrpit.
Mr Gee
Thank you for your email. As you are aware this matter was an "Appeal" hearing before the High Court. No witnesses were called to give evidence at the High Court hearing and the parties relied on written submissions to present their arguments to the Court. Therefore no transcript would have been made. It is usual procedure that no transcripts are taken for civil appeal hearings.
Therefore I am unable to provide any transcript.
Kind Regards
Michaela Stack
Deputy Registrar
Wellington High Court
email : michaela.stack@justice.govt.nz
My highlights in red above. As you know, I did make an extensive written submission for my appeal, which I have provided to your office, detailing my concerns that you say I did not try to submit. So in effect I did make a valid attempt to address this and other issues, and as I can take it was read by Justice Kos I do not know why it isn’t in his summing up.
All the testimony, evidence and opinions issuing from my impartiality hearing and my actual hearing. All given so much credence by the Board and by Justice Kos appear to be based solely on the foundation of the integrity and reliability of the Board’s appointed so called “impartial” investigator and his opinion, even down to the strict enforcement of an acceptable solution, a NON COMPULSORY acceptable solution, the investigator offered no physical evidence to make his point, it was based solely on his opinion and translation of the NZ 5261 and a contradictory table that he helped write.
I was told at my impartiality hearing that as Mr Hammond hadn’t been shown to have acted egregiously, that he was deemed to be suitable and the right person for the job, even in light of all the conflicts of interest I had raised.
I ask you Mr Patterson, is this investigator, who withheld forensic photos which proved my point that I had maintained for two years, these same forensic photos taken before he was appointed as the investigator, the same photos which were in all probability in his possession as and when I told him at interview that it was my opinion that the pipe work had been altered after my initial pipe installation…. the same investigator who misrepresented evidence and was prepared to ignore his own huge conflicts of interest, is he suitable? Has he acted egregiously? Has he any integrity? Do you value his opinion? This where my complaint lies.
Is it fair that Mr Hammond’s colleague of many years, a Stephen Parker who was chair of my hearing, the same Chair who closed down this very hearing, just as my advocate was cross examining Mr Hammond about the califont measurement from an openable window and trying to get the investigator to clarify and give his reasons for his “opinion” on the clearance of the califont? This is the basis for my complaint.
It is the reliance on this one mans “opinion” by the involved authorities’, to base the whole ruination of my life, business and reputation, that I base my complaint.
I base my complaint on the Board’s willingness to ignore these blatant facts and cover for Mr Hammond….. which I suppose is understandable, after all, the Board did appoint Mr Hammond….the same Mr Hammond, an ex Board member, who had lobbied extensively for the deregulation of the gas industry and pushed for the self certification gas cert system to be introduced, this same self certing system shown to be wanting……..by none other than John Darnley, my old boss…….the same John Darnley who was gifted his license by Mr Hammond, gifted to Mr Darnley with no formal training….who was also a fellow member of NZIGE and other gas groups with Mr Hammond, Mr Parker and Mr Bickers…..Please Mr Patterson explain to me why this is acceptable. Explain to me, if you explain nothing else, why this is acceptable and why these blatant conflicts of interests should be ignored. Here is the heart of my complaint.
For your office to apparently be so willing to rely on the Board’s own excuses while they are ignoring the unsuitability of Mr Hammond is reason for concern. You are relying on the Board’s own spin for your reasons to not investigate, I believe this is unfounded and I will ask the human rights commission and perhaps even the leaders of our Commonwealth if they think this is reasonable. This same Board, who have misquoted me, prejudiced all the witness’s to all the sites of charges and told untruths about me and sent vile perverted case notes to my home. I will never let this lie and am in communication with a law firm to pursue this further if you decide to go on the path you appear to be following.
Is this conflicted and biased man, Mr Hammond, a reliable person for both the Board and Justice Kos, even the Ombudsman, to totally base their judgment on, up holding this last and final charge out of 44 trumped up charges? Is it fair for your office to listen to this man, to give him credibility? He has acted egregiously. This is my complaint.
Think on this, I feel it is relevant because of papers you have written. As you are aware, I had spent 6 years warning about my old boss, about him altering my certs after I had signed them, not forging my signature as your letter of 30th May has said.
As you know at one point I had a letter sent on my behalf in 2006 by Nick Smith MP, amongst many other attempts by myself to highlight the short comings of my old boss. Ironic, because I also have a photo of several Board members and the “later to be appointed” investigator pictured in 2006 along with my old boss at a NZIGE meeting, all of them paid up long serving members of the same interest groups.
Basically I was, in 2006, complaining about my old boss, to the very same Board members pictured with him in the very same year, all members of the same club, also present in this photo is the man later appointed to investigate the explosion AND who had awarded my old boss his full licence…along with the chair of my hearing Stephen Parker…..all in the same picture, all paid up members of the same group, three years before the explosion. I actually have more similar photos taken at NZIGE seminars.
All of this in contradiction to Mr Hammonds own signed affidavit, an affidavit written about how well he knew my old boss and how many times he had met him, is Mr Hammond the right person for the job? Is it fair? This is where my complaint lies.
Nick Smith MP stated in a letter that if the Board had heeded my warnings then the explosion “could have been averted”, written two years after the explosion. Is it fair that I lost so much? Doc 4 in attachments. And the Labour MP, Maryan Street believes I was served an injustice Doc 5 in attachments.
This is why I believe it may be relevant to you as I think you said it best in these comments attributable to a Prof Ron Patterson; I take it this is you.
In reading Doc 6 in attachments, please replace doctors with tradesman and the Medical Board with this Plumbers Board when rereading these notes, excerpt below:-
First, what do I mean by evidence? My Oxford English dictionary tells me that the word comes via Old French from the Latin evidentia, meaning ‘obvious to the eye or mind’ – from videre, to see. This is revealing, since one of the most common criticisms of medical (or gas ?) regulators when a licensed doctor has harmed patients, is that the board turned a ‘blind eye’ to the available evidence.
And from another paper….
Finding effective ways to raise concerns within the health (or may be gas?) system is a particular concern. Too often, health professionals (or may be gasfitters?) who attempt to do so lack institutional support and are met by denial and resistance. Even external inquiry bodies learn to expect re-litigation of findings by interested parties, denigration by critics, and revisionism by subsequent commentators who did not hear all the evidence and sometimes seem wilfully blind to it!
* My additions in black.
How about adding to this statement above…..That these “raisers of concern” are being set up and made a scapegoat when all that they had warned about comes to pass, nearly killing someone. Isn’t the Board denying and resisting my complaint, just as they did with my warnings, made 6 years prior to the explosion.
I ask you Mr Patterson. What is the difference between a patient’s health and safety to that of paying customer of a tradesman? Or are the rights of a gasfitter and his customer to be deemed less than that of a health professional and his patient? After all we are licence holding practitioners and have in the past been over seen by the health system. I was set up as a scape-goat, this is my complaint.
Doesn’t a patient pay for a service from a health professional and in doing so they should be able to expect to be kept safe and healthy after procuring these services, please explain to me the difference? I say this because a man nearly died in an explosion and NO ONE has been held accountable but I have been made the scapegoat. What message does this send?
Here’s an analogy for you. How does it sit with you if…….. a “health professional” was to be gifted his full practicing licence because he was a pharmaceutical salesman?........Then a well meaning, fully trained health practitioner had aired concerns about the obvious lack of ability of this untrained “gifted” licence holder for 6 years, and was later proven right in his concerns when a patient nearly died………but as the well meaning, fully trained person had signed a prescription (which was manipulated after signing) was then made the scapegoat, by the very person appointed to investigate, this same person who had also gifted the licence to the pharmaceutical salesman, and was in several interest groups with this salesman. Now apply this rational to mine and Mr Darnley’s situation, in light of your publications. Is this fair? How would the author of the above presentation feel about this state of affairs? A presentation about, of all things, “self regulation” and Board’s ignoring evidence.
All the evidence points to my old boss, he actually faced a charge for this explosion but it disappeared with no relevant questioning or a hearing. Is this fair? Doc 7 in attachments. You’ll notice that this letter mentions 3.7 of the report (the 33 page report that is mentioned above and in your correspondence). Point 3.7 makes no mention of the charge at the site of the explosion. Also a list of the charges laid against Mr Darnley has no mention of the explosion at Milton Street. How can someone face a charge then have it disappear with no trial/hearing or relevant questions? Is it fair?
I ask you, is it fair to base your opinion that my old boss was investigated thoroughly and adequately just because the investigator said he did? This same investigator who was also my old boss’s fellow member of NZIGE and the same person who had gifted my old boss his licence…..the same investigator, who withheld forensic photos, misrepresented and ignored evidence?
This same Mr Hammond who was willing to ignore, amongst other ignored evidence, a third hose supplied to supply the two fryers, this third hose sold well after, months after, I had left Allgas’s employment and a long time before the secondary work covered by cert 345138 for a pizza oven….this same hose being the very one that caused the explosion, the same hose that, in the opinion of the forensic investigator, David Neale, had had its sealing outer rubber coating cut away, the same outer coating that makes the hose gas tight. Is this fair? This is where my complaint lies. Doc 8 & 9 in attachments.
You mention the Board’s 33 page report. As you appear to have a copy please look at page 31, point 4.6, Doc 10 in attachments. I believe this double speak spin doctoring is part of the cover up and one of the root causes for making me a scapegoat, its plain to see for those willing to see. Cert 345138, a cert for the last, most recent work carried out at the site of the explosion, the same cert 345138 mentioned in the Board’s 33 page report, this is also the same cert 345138 mentioned in the Dept Of Labour (DOL) original complaint. Two pages of Doc 11 in attachments.
The DOL author of this letter of complaint told my lawyer right at the beginning of this fiasco that, at no point, was my work of concern to DOL. I have since personally talked to the author Mr Windleburn; he has no problem with my work either. To ignore this. This is where my complaint lies.
I ask you to read the DOL complaint and ask yourself who in this letter of complaint would a fair minded lay person think was more deserving of a thorough investigation.
· The fully trained Gas Service Engineer who had complained about Mr Darnley, specifically about dodgy certs covering dodgy work for 6 years and came forward freely.
· Or the person gifted his licence with no formal training, whom the Board had received letters of concern about, specifically dodgy work covered by dodgy certs, who was the last person to have worked at the site of the explosion but didn’t register the cert for this last work, but saw fit to issue a carbon copy to the customer, i.e. a dodgy cert covering not only dodgy work…. but an explosion? The same person who ran the company that sold the third hose and this same company also showing a willingness to act in my name when Allgas requested to alter a cert 3 months after I had left its employ? Doc 12 in attachments.
I find it bizarre that a copy or cert 345138 was entered into the Board’s own website, but they claim not to have received a copy. In the Board’s 33 page report it mentions that a “fox pro” entry is there for this cert I should imagine that this system would require a log in pass word for the person entering the certs information and this person could attest to whether the Board had in deed received a copy. How on earth does all the information on the carbon copies get on to the fox pro system, even down to the correct cert number…..without receiving a copy of the original! To deny receiving this cert alone deserves an investigation.
All available copies of cert 345138 lack the legal recording of a gas leak test, even the electronic version. The only copy missing…. the original! This is the only copy which was, in all probability, received by the Board.
I put it to you that it is possible that this original copy of 345138 was, in all probability disposed of and shredded when the Lawyers acting for the owners of the exploding chipshop asked for a copy of all gas safety certs for their gasfitting work carried out at their chipshop. Perhaps you could ask Belinda Greer, a worker for the Board. Doc 13 in attachments. Look at Doc 13 and reread the 33 pages of excuses in their report, it is nonsense.
This Cert 345138 is actually mentioned by number in the DOL complaint. This is where my complaint lies.
I ask you in all fairness, if the person responsible for the last work installed at the exploding chipshop, the same person who according to the Board didn’t register this cert for this work with the Board. But he saw fit to issue a carbon copy to the customer, and even kept a carbon copy himself as the supplier and another copy himself as the certifying gasfitter. With this same cert 345138 that appears in the complaint by DOL by actual number, the same cert mentioned in 4.6 on page 31 of the Board’s report……how can this man, the person responsible for initiating cert 345138, face a charge for the explosion, but then that charge disappears with no relevant questioning, trial or hearing? These are per the Board’s own correspondence. It is here my complaint lies, this “non registration” came to light 8 days after the explosion and months before the Board appointed an investigator. Is that Fair?
I ask you Mr Patterson……..how would the Board look if they had openly accepted an incomplete gas safety certificate for the last work done at a site that then later exploded…..lacking of all things a gas leak test? How would the Lawyers for the chipshop owners have acted on such findings?
In ever more double standards a person involved in yet another case, a situation where there was a pre-signing of some 560 blank certificates, which were on sold, including to unqualified lay persons, with 90% of the work covered by these blank certs done against regulation and non compliant…..with some 16 very dangerous, with the signatory on record as saying he signed and checked every job. What would you think if someone involved in this fiasco, probably the signatory of these blank certs…..still has charges before the Board some 5 years later? Is this fair? These double standards, this is where my complaint lies. Doc 14 in attachments.
The Board are also willing to ignore a potential fraud and manipulation of gas certs to cover dangerous work, this was discovered at my hearing, and the Board did nothing. Is this fair? This is yet another double standard and is where my complaint lies. Doc 15 in attachments. The letters sent by the Board, that are mentioned in this letter of excuse in Doc 15 were issued well before the manipulation of the certs was revealed at my hearing, it is actually one of the letters that the Board had to apologise to me for, because it contained untruths about my ability to act illegally in other areas of NZ. Ironically this letter of untruths sent by the Board came about because of the situation where the man mentioned above signed 560 certs in the North Island, apparently I got lumped in with him, but he potentially still has charges before the Board, even right up to today. This farcical state of affairs is where my complaint lies.
The list of poor performance by this Board is long and deserves a proper independent investigation. It does not deserve for the Board to be apparently protected and sheltered by those, like yourself, who would take all that the Board say on face value and fall for their spin doctoring and double speak, this is a mistake.
I was told by Mr Christopher Littlewood that all you could do was make a recommendation……please recommend that a proper, fair and independent investigation is held, I will do the rest, along with the support of well over 1200 members of the Plumbers Federation, a group set up because of 15 years of mismanagement by this Board. Sadly my case is but one of many.
Thank you for your consideration and time. Please can you tell me when I might receive a reply, it has been nearly a year and a half since my original complaint.
Best Regards Paul Gee
-
So in the Ombudsman's own words....
First, what do I mean by evidence? My Oxford English dictionary tells me that the word comes via Old French from the Latin evidentia, meaning ‘obvious to the eye or mind’ – from videre, to see. This is revealing, since one of the most common criticisms of medical (or gas ?) regulators when a licensed doctor has harmed patients, is that the board turned a ‘blind eye’ to the available evidence.
Now when you look at my situation and the blatant evidence I think this is a tad hypocritical as a statement by Ron, the term I would use is "crock of shit", "crock" derived from the old English word for a container and "shit" derived from the working class slang for the stuff that issues from your arse.....
One rule for one and another rule for tradesman apparently......
-
Just came home to this letter, now remember the Board has a problem finding dodgy certs, then they find them, then some are missing for ever, some are never received but they appear on the website......
Well now the Board can't readily find the address of a law firm that represented an explosion victim....
I got to ask you all......
How do you like paying these guys for a license to practice your trade, when they can't look, can't be bothered, to look for someone's details, in a system that we pay them to administer......
My complaint to the Ombudsman....below sent today.....it is a joke......(not my email, but the situation).....
Dear Ombudsman,
I would like to complain about the attached letter from the PGDB.
This letter is part of an obvious and on-going cover up; you have seen my case and are aware of the corruption I have been subjected to, you’ve done nothing but you are aware of it.
This “excuse” is nothing short of ludicrous and frankly insulting (but I have had a lot worse from the Board).
Now I know I am a mere tradesman to these people, but to say that the contact details aren’t readily available is simply not true in this electronic day and age, the Board were using the email system extensively in 2009.
A simple data search in your email file with the filter “Ron Clark” would work. My I suggest trying searching in your “in box” for the email address for this law firm. This would take minutes to do, which when found could be “copy and pasted”, which could then be forwards to me by email, a further few minuets. 10 mins max!
Failing this just look up the case file number, or has the Board “misplaced” these, like all the other “missing” information.
It seems that nothing has changed at the Board.
Yours truly, Paul Gee.
-
What do you do when the office for "Fairness for All" appears to be as bad as the people you're complaining about.....
Sent this morning.......
Dear Ombudsman,
Supplementary to my complaint made yesterday, please can I bring to your attention the actual initial email that I sent. You will notice that the attachment which was also sent with the original OIA request gives a date…..
“This occurred after she was contacted by lawyers acting for the owner on 17 April 2009 requesting copies of all gas certificates relating to 136 Milton Street”. (my emphasis).
I ask you to bear in mind that this certificate which is mentioned in this correspondence between the Board and the explosion victims lawyer is the actual certificate that is mentioned by number in the DOL complaint, attached for your convenience, cert 345138.
This date of 17th April was just days after an explosion nearly killed Ron Clark, just 8 days from memory. This date should help narrow down the search for the correspondence from the contact details of the lawyer of this explosion victim.
Also bear in mind I had spent the previous 6 years before the explosion trying to warn about dodgy certs covering dangerous work, you can not get more “dodgy” than an incomplete certificate issued to the customer but not registered with the Board (even more “dodgy” if this same certificate appears on the Board’s own website, but they claim never to have received it)….. and you can not get more “dangerous” than an explosion that levelled a shop nearly killing the owner.
Also bear in mind that the person who most, if not all, the evidence points to who is also the issuer (and lets not forget according to the Board the non “register”-er) of this “dodgy” cert 345138 mentioned above…… faced a charge for this explosion, but the charge disappeared before his hearing. How does that happen?
I was then framed and made a scapegoat for this explosion at a biased hearing under the scrutiny of a very conflicted investigator.
I ask again, does the Ombudsman think this is fair…..please just a simple yes or no will suffice. You see things are either fair or they are not…..there are no degrees of fairness.
If you think this treatment is fair then I put it to you, publically, that this adds to the cover up and I question your motives and feel this would be contrary to your motto “Fairness for All”, please respond in a public fashion as I will post this for the plumbing industry to see on a public forum, which I believe is a tradesman’s only avenue of “gazetting” this.
I will post your reply for the Plumbing industry to view how you feel about our industry and those who govern us.
Yours Sincerely Paul Gee.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Paul & Emma Gee [mailto:gspservices@xtra.co.nz]
Sent: Sunday, 29 May 2016 8:27 a.m.
To: 'Registrar'
Cc: 'Wal Gordon'
Subject: OIA Request
Dear Registrar,
By means of an Official Information request please can I get the contact details of Mr Clark’s law firm? For clarity this is Ron Clark the poor man involved in the explosion at Milton Street, the lawyer mentioned in the comment below from the attachment.
This occurred after she was contacted by lawyers acting for the owner on 17 April 2009 requesting copies of all gas certificates relating to 136 Milton Street. .
Regards Paul Gee
-
So they have received it...... I will let you know what the reply is, you'll notice the address at the bottom.
17 June 2016
Dear Mr Gee
Thank you for your correspondence received on 16 June 2016 about the Plumbers, Gasfitters and Drainlayers Board. Your complaint has been allocated reference number: 431604.
We will contact you again once your complaint has been assessed.
You can contact us by calling 0800 802 602, emailing info@ombudsman.parliament.nz , or writing to our postal address below.
Yours sincerely
Office of the Ombudsman | Tari o te Kaitiaki Mana Tangata
Phone 04 473 9533 0800 802 602| Fax 04 471 2254
Email info@ombudsman.parliament.nz | www.ombudsman.parliament.nz
PO Box 10152, Level 7, SolNet House, 70 The Terrace, Wellington
-
Lets not forget that this poor man that was nearly killed in an explosion.....well he thought he was employing an expert in gasfitting, what he got was a LPG salesman.......
An LPG salesman who was a member of the NZ Institute of Gas ENGINEERS as well (I would be pretty pissed off at this state of affairs if I was a REAL member of the NZIGE)
This LPG salesman who sold him a gas cert to say the installation was safe....it wasn't safe.....it exploded.
The Board not only empowered this numpty with a full certifying license based on one conversation and no formal apprenticeship served, but then went and tried to cover it up just days after the explosion while he lay in a burns unit.
THE BOARD APPARENTLY IGNORING THE FACT THAT DARNLEY DIDN'T REGISTER THE CERTIFICATE, BUT ISSUED A CARBON COPY OF IT TO THE POOR BURNS VICTIM.....REALLY FFS.
And now the Board won't look for this poor man's lawyers details........
Perhaps its because Darnley, who was gifted his license (by the Board), and didn't register the cert with the Board(which is bullshit because it appears on their electronic register, you know the register that carries a disclaimer for accuracy, lol).....Well he faced a charge for the explosion but it disappeared before his trial.....perhaps the Board might have a reason for not giving me the details of these lawyers.........did I just really write that.....all based on fact!....yes I did, because it is true.
How wrong is that? How wrong is it I can publically say this, because it ain't slander it is it based on the truth.
-
How do you feel about a selfish group of people who put themselves and their cronies above what they preach, the integrity of the trade, the public's best interest and just pure common decency......and get you to pay for the privilege, funding their gravy train?
How would the NZ public feel about this?
How should the Ombudsman feel about this?
It is a sad state of affairs if the powers that be allow this to go unaddressed, real sad.
-
I don't believe corruption has a sell by date, but it does fester and grow over time and the more you entwine yourself in it..... the more tainted you become, even if you just joined in.......until a new guy decides it needs addressing and then you'll see the legacy you've left.....I ain't going nowhere.
-
So you have seen the evidence posted on here and how even the Ombudsman has turned his back on me with my complaint of how I was beyond a shadow of a doubt set up as a scapegoat.
One of them even rang me to tell me we don't usually get involved in these things.....
But apparently it all depends who you are and what level of society you range from, sent to night for clarification of why us Plumbers don't matter, why are we at the bottom of the pile?
Dear Mr Patterson,
Supplementary to my initial complaint. Please see below, in blue, an excerpt from the media.
Please can you explain to me why my case is of no concern to you but the one mentioned below is, other than the obvious fact that I am a mere plumber and the other aggrieved party mentioned below is an ex-diplomat.
I believe my family and I have been subjected to a far greater amount and higher level of egregious acts at the hands of the PGDB, that far exceed the case mentioned below, but it appears that because I am from a lower level of the strata in society, then my family and I mater not, my reputation matters even less.
I was under the impression that your office motto was “Fairness for All”, this is not my experience. It is far from it.
Please can you tell me why my family and I matter less and the defaming of my reputation is of no concern to you.
Yours Sincerely Paul Gee.
CAMERON BURNELL/FAIRFAX MEDIA
Outgoing State Services Commissioner Iain Rennie slated by Ombudsman
The Government has rejected parts of a damning report into its handling of an inquiry into leaks from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade.
Ombudsman Ron Paterson has told the Government it should compensate a former top diplomat whose career ended in tatters after he was targeted by the inquiry, which was instigated by the State Services Commission.
He has also recommended a formal apology.
The 2013 inquiry has already cost taxpayers as much as $1 million, including lawyers costs and fees paid to the woman who headed it, Paula Rebstock.
State Services Commissioner Iain Rennie said on Thursday he did not agree with some of Paterson's findings and Foreign Affairs Minister Murray McCully stood by comments made at the time the inquiry was released.
McCully said the Ombudsman's review criticised the steps taken in assessing the responsibility of particular individuals for "some very unprofessional behaviour" - but did not dispute that those behaviours occurred.
"My statement, made at the time of the release of the Rebstock report, referred to unprofessional and disreputable conduct but did not name any individuals. My statement was undoubtedly correct."
The 2013 inquiry headed resulted in senior diplomats Derek Leask and Nigel Fyfe being singled out , despite evidence the leaks that sparked it originated from within the State Services Commission itself. The person responsible cannot be identified because of suppression orders.
While they were not named in the State Services Commission-ordered inquiry, Leask and Fyfe were easily identifiable and their conduct was publicly criticised by the State Services Commissioner and Foreign Affairs Minister Murray McCully after personal emails were published revealing their opposition to restructuring of the ministry.
In his report, Paterson says the SSC acted unreasonably during the inquiry, and singled out flaws including
* the findings in relation to Leask exceeded the inquiry's terms of reference.
* Leask was not given fair notice prior to his interview that his conduct would be examined.
* Insufficient material was provided him about the applicable standards against which his behaviour was being measured
* He was not treated fairly.
* The evidence relied upon by the inquiry did not reasonably support some of the criticisms made about him in the final report and some highly relevant evidence was not properly addressed
* The manner in which Leaks's actions were addressed in the final report was disproportionate when compared with the comments about the actions of other senior MFAT managers.
* Publication of the report, in a manner that identified him and contained unfair criticisms of him, was unjust
* State Services Commissioner Iain Rennie's public statement about Leask was unreasonable.
Paterson recommends Leask receive compensation for harm to his reputation caused by the deficiencies in the inquiry and publication of the report.
In a statement, Leask said the 2013 findings against him and other MFAT staff had been rubbished by the Ombudsman.
"It is good to have the slur on my reputation removed. Today's findings by the Ombudsman go beyond the vindication of my actions. The Ombudsman's report suggests that the 2012/2013 SSC investigation was out of control from start to finish."
Leask, a former deputy secretary of foreign affairs and New Zealand's high commissioner in London, said It was a matter of great public concern that the SSC acted in the way it did.
In a statement, Rennie said he did not agree with all elements of the Ombudsman's findings, in particular that in making findings relating to the investigation being outside its terms of reference.
But he accepted that the way in which the investigation dealt with Leask "could have been better".
-
Why can't my name be cleared? I have proved I did nothing wrong, proved I was set up and proved the Board are covering up a dodgy cert system that effects peoples homes and families......where is my fairness?
Oh wait there I am a mere tradesman, that should be glad that I am allowed to pay for a license to crawl through shit,
I is a sorry masser..... I promise I be a good boy masser........ FFS I thought we had progressed from this sort of discrimination and down right hypocrisy.
Where is the equality and fairness in all this? It is most definitely one rule for us and one rule for them, and it is wrong on every level, especially when they hid behind the slogan "Fairness for All"....what a crock of shite....
.
-
From the media release below....
The 2013 inquiry has already cost taxpayers as much as $1 million, including lawyers costs and fees paid to the woman who headed it, Paula Rebstock.
Aren't we lucky, we saved the tax payer at least $250,000.00 (cost of my "investigation" 220k and the 30k spent on Darnley, notice the difference in costs) plus all the other costs......because we all paid for that, us tradesman.....
Its just a shame we are a far smaller amount of people chipping in to fund the Board........than the 5 million taxpayers, oh wait there we pay tax on top of funding the Board....Fairness for who again?
...
-
To all the new readers of this thread, take a look at the evidence posted on this thread to back up this submission below.....
Dear Select Committee,
1. Introduction
2. My name is Paul Gee, a certifying gasfitter and plumber from the Tasman/Nelson area. I am in full agreement with the Plumbers, Gasfitters and Drainlayers Federation’s submission, and only offer this personal submission under my own steam and banner to go toward showing how the Plumbers, Gasfitters and Drainlayers Board (PGDB) have spent the illegally gained funds, needlessly savaging my life and terrorising my wife in doing so.
3. I have lost my business and reputation, my home and time with my young family, all for a situation that I had tried to warn about for 6 years previously, before an explosion nearly killed someone, i.e. dodgy certs covering dodgy work. With no one held accountable for this. As this situation spans almost 10 years of my life and is hugely personal to me I am truly thankful for all understanding and consideration shown for this lengthy submission and I thank you in advance for this.
4. I believe the Board have made a scapegoat of me to hide their own short comings and in-action.
5. Concerns
6. My concerns are centred on the illegally funded past and current prosecution and discipline systems of the PGDB within the gasfitting industry and the apparent covering up by the PGDB of either a badly designed gas safety certification system and/or incompetence/malpractice administering this system.
7. I believe that the Board ignored conflicts of interest and acted in bad faith, with out duty of care and against natural justice; leading to an unfair and needless investigation and the resulting decision by the Board in respect to me. Please note that I strongly believe in industry regulation and the holding of “cowboys” to account within the industry, which was why I had tried to warn about all of this from the outset.
8. I believe they undertook a needless disciplinary action against me, utilising these illegally gained funds spending over $200,000.00 on my case. What has occurred to me has since been made available to the Building and Housing Minister.
9. In particular, my concerns are not just about the afore mentioned conflicts of interests that were ignored, but also the misrepresentation and withholding of evidence and the resulting decision of the Board, and in particular the way the investigation was carried out.
10. Background
11. I am a qualified gas service engineer in the United Kingdom, trained by British Gas in 1989. I was registered by the PGDB as a craftsman gasfitter on 15 February 1999.
12. I began working for a gas company in late February 2003 in Nelson. At the beginning of this employment, I was instructed by the manager to fill out the work sheets only and the office staff would fill out the gas certification certificate and I only had to sign them, then the office staff would file them. Note: The manger and office staff was a family and related, i.e. a husband (manager), wife (office manager), daughter (office girl) and son in law (limited licence gasfitter, who worked unsupervised most of the time).
13. After approximately five months of employment with this gas company, I became very concerned about how gasfitting work was being carried out and the possible safety implications of this apparent malpractice. I attempted to raise this concern verbally with the manager; however it was dismissed by him. Toward the end of the period of this employment I handed back certificates to the manager, refusing to sign them as they were unfinished or unsafe.
14. On 10 November 2003, I attended a meeting with the Manager. At this meeting, I submitted a written statement outlining my safety concerns; this written statement was later provided to the Board and appears in my Hearing’s Bundle (HB).
15. On 13 November 2003, I was issued with a written warning by the manager for how I had expressed my concerns about safety to his son in law, (HB). In response to this written warning I indicated I would resign as soon as was practicable.
16. On 14 November 2003, four books of non-transferable gas certificates were ordered, for the one and only time, by some one at the gas company. It was done in my name, without my knowledge, (HB).
17. On 19 November 2003, I gave two weeks notice and resigned from this gas company, (HB).
18. I later found out, after the explosion, that on the 4th March 2004, three months after I left, someone from this gas company, on this company’s letterhead, wrote a letter in my name to alter a gas certificate to the PGDB, which was apparently acted on, (HB).
19. I then began work as a subcontractor for a different gas company in December 2003 where I immediately became aware of improper use of gas certificates that were in my name, actually one of the certificates I had refused to sign because the job was unsafe/unfinished, (HB).
20. In response, I contacted the PGDB by telephone, which was when I became aware of the 4 books ordered in my name, and again in writing on 6 January 2004. In response, the PGDB replied to me, dismissing my complaint and providing what I believe are inconsistencies and incorrect facts. (HB)
21. A year later I came across yet another irregular certificate in my name, covering unsafe work. I contacted a lawyer, as the Board refused to talk to me without one, on 13 January 2005. (HB)
22. I also contacted my former employer, the gas company mentioned above, which had a new manager, on the 24 January 2005.
23. The outcome of my lawyer’s inquiry to the PGDB was there were over a 1000 certificates in my name and it would cost $25 per certificate to check. I could not afford this potential sum of $25,000 and told them so by phone. The letter from the Board’s lawyer had inconsistencies and incorrect facts. I had only worked at this gas company for some 10 months.
24. I approached a Member of Parliament on 24 May 2006 after hearing no further from the PGDB. A letter was written to the PGDB on 6 June 2006. No response was made to me. I followed up this letter by sending a fax to a member of the PGDB on 21 August 2006. Again, I had no response. I later contacted another Member of Parliament by email, outlining my concerns for health and safety. This was passed on to the Minister for Safety and Health at the time. This Minister replied indicating he would look into the matter; however I received no further contact. Most, if not all, of the proof of this correspondence is in the possession of the PGDB, (HB).
25. On 8 July 2009, the Board received a complaint from the Department of Labour, regarding a gas explosion at 136 Milton Street, Nelson. An “impartial” investigator was appointed according to section 40 of the Act.
26. I requested an impartiality hearing with PGDB, it was held on 22 February 2011 where I raised concerns about conflicts of interest. They were dismissed.
27. Disciplinary action was taken against me under section 42 of the Plumbers, Gasfitters and Drainlayers Act 1976 (“the Act”) as a result of the investigation. The matter was heard between 3 and 5 May 2011 by the Board. The decision was given in July 2011 where I was found guilty under section 42(1)(c) of the Act in relation to only one of the seven properties that were investigated by the “impartial” investigator.
28. Out of 44 charges laid by the Board, I was found guilty of only two, neither of which was at the site of the explosion that initiated the complaint by the Department of Labour. No one else as far as I am aware was questioned about the site of the explosion, whether as part of the initial investigation or since.
29. The Board required I undertake a course of instruction as an extra condition of re-licensing as a certified gasfitter for the 2013/2014 licensing year.
30. This “course of instruction” had to be custom made for me at my expense. I have recently carried out an “assessment”, rather than course of instruction. I passed with a 90% mark and was told by the assessor that I would be in the top 10% of the people he had ever assessed.
31. Of the “impartial” investigators initial audits of my work, none of his initial concerns made it to charges that later surfaced in a second audit. This second audit was ordered by him on the basis of these initial audits and “concerns”. A letter from the Board’s lawyer states that three years worth of my work was audited, but the “impartial” investigator only claims to have audited 10% of my work for that period.
32. On 2 October 2009, the then Acting Registrar of The Board sent letters to the owners of six properties where the PGDB alleged I had carried out gasfitting work and that were identified by the “impartial” investigator’s investigation as having compliance issues.
33. These letters, which covered each and every area that I had ever worked in for my own business, from the West Coast to Havelock of the top of the south island, with Nelson and Motueka in between, one or two letters per area. By far the most damaging was the one to Motueka High school, the only high school in what WAS my main centre of business, and my business disappeared not long after these letters. I wasn’t made aware of these letters until the Motueka High school contacted me.
34. These letters noted there was an issue with a number of gas certificates illegally sold affecting a number of homes from Northland to Waikato and the Bay of Plenty, and that the certificate pertaining to their address was one of these. I have never carried out work in these North Island areas and these letters caused me the loss of my business, distress and loss of reputation.
35. By far the worst event on a personal level was during the build up and preparation for my Hearing, the “impartial” investigator’s lawyer sent to my home, unmarked child sexual abuse case notes to prove his point on probabilities. As they were unmarked of their vile content, my long suffering wife read them and I came home to find her hysterical. At this time she was facing living in a caravan for the winter with her husband working away, minding our two young sons, as we were financially forced to sell our home. This situation that my wife faced later happened and I have had to work away for nearly two years since. I have told the present CEO of the Board about this, he has no problem with it and another PGDB member’s solution that he offered to me was “…had I thought of returning to the UK or going to Aussie”.
36. I filed a notice of appeal to the decision of the Board on 16 November 2011. The appeal was heard in the High Court on 5 March 2012 and the decision given on 14 March 2012. The focus of this appeal was on the finding I was guilty of an act or omission contrary to the integrity of the gasfitting trade. The appeal was dismissed.
37. On 22 June 2012, the Boards external assessor and QC released an opinion on eight complaints I raised. She concluded that under the Board’s Historical Complaints Resolution Policy, only one of my complaints fell within the scope of the Policy: that the letters sent by the Board’s Acting Registrar on 2 October 2009 did cause me a disadvantage. I have heard nothing since.
38. Impartiality
39. My claim is that the “impartial” investigator was not an impartial investigator as is required for natural justice. He is a member and fellow of the NZIGE and a member of IPENZ, GANZ and the Kennedy Trust and at the time my old boss was also a member of NZIGE and other gas groups.
40. In addition, I believe that the “impartial” investigator was the person who granted my old boss his full craftsman status, after just one oral exam and with no apprenticeship served.
41. The “impartial” investigator also was nominated by GANZ to co-author the NZ 5261, the standard that I had offered an alternative to in defending against my two founded charges. This is a conflict of interest that should not have been ignored. I tried to raise the issue at the impartiality hearing in February 2011, where my concerns were dismissed.
42. I believe that the table 16 of NZ 5261, which he refers to within this Standard and is particular to my charges, is contradictory and confusing. Table 16 had also been amended which gives the tradesman the impression that the table is not strict in its application, not to mention it is in the non-mandatory part two of the standard.
43. The present Chairman of the PGDB and a panel member of my hearing is also a member of IPENZ, of which NZIGE is an arm of that according to a press release from IPENZ – “NZIGE collaborates closely with IPENZ”. This same person released a press release just after my Hearing stating I lacked fundamental knowledge of my trade, this appeared in my local newspaper.
44. I also believe there was a conflict of interest between the “impartial” investigator and the Presiding Board Member at the disciplinary hearing. The “impartial” investigator and the Presiding Board Member have served together in numerous organisations, NZIGE, GANZ, and the Kennedy Trust, and have made numerous presentations together as a duo to the gas industry.
45. The Presiding Board Member was on the executive of GANZ, the nominating organisation for the “impartial” investigator to co-author the referenced standard NZ 5261.
46. The “impartial” investigator was the technical adviser to the Presiding Board Member at GANZ. I believe this would lead to the Presiding Board Member to put more weight in the “impartial” investigator’s opinion because of their personal relationship and their work on NZ 5261. They would both, in all probability, want the integrity of NZ 5261 to remain intact because of their involvement in developing it.
47. The “impartial” investigator was also heavily involved with the deregulation of the gas industry and a driving force behind self certification for gasfitting. In light of this I believe he would also have a vested interest in maintaining the integrity of this certification system he had helped create, which has some apparent serious flaws in its application and the PGDB’s administration of it, most if not all of this was raised at the impartiality hearing I had requested, but was dismissed.
48. Further, at the site of this explosion no one has been held accountable, although all copies of the last certificate issued for work carried out at this site of an explosion; lack any gas leak test entry which is a compulsory field on the now electronic website. This certificate is totally in my old manager’s name and was signed for a year after the initial installation and at least a year after my leaving the employment of the gas company mentioned above. The PGDB claim never to have received or registered this certificate, but an electronic version appears on the electronic register on their website. This electronic register also carries a disclaimer stating the inaccuracy of the register.
49. Unfair Investigation
50. I believe I was unfairly investigated, as were the charges brought against me regarding seven properties. Only two, out of 44 charges, regarding one property were upheld, which would be dismissed by a well used British Standard, if it was allowed.
51. As a result my business and reputation was damaged and my ability to earn an income suffered. I believe that the PGDB appointed investigator was not an impartial investigator and that serious evidence was misrepresented or ignored at the Hearing. I was presumed guilty, having to prove innocence and disadvantaged by not allowing me to submit further evidence, which would clear me of all wrong doing, for a situation I had tried to warn about for 6 years.
52. My appeal was dismissed because I could not, due to limiting PGDB policy, give any further evidence. The evidence I tried to adduce was a British Standard that would show what I had done was safe and a relevant alternative to the non-mandatory part two of the NZ 5261 standard that I was found guilty of contravening. Of note, the only other certifying gasfitter in the room at the hearing was on the panel for the PGDB, and he was British.
53. I also tried to adduce an email from another, co-author of NZ5261. This email said I could use a British Standard if it was relevant, and I believe it is. This would have left me completely innocent of any wrong-doing.
54. At the actual hearing I had offered other information and illustrated how I knew the fumes would behave on the appliance I had been later found guilty for installing and certifying. The owner of the same dwelling said he had no problems with it in the previous six years since installation, and it was the only obvious place to put the appliance in question. Even the “impartial” investigator also commented that if the fumes were not entering the building then I would have complied with Part one of NZ5261 which is mandatory, and so I would have done nothing wrong. All of this evidence was apparently ignored, with no further evidence put forward by the PGDB, other than the above mentioned “Table 16”, to go to show what I had done was dangerous, which I still believe it was not.
55. In light of this treatment, and it is very brief and incomplete and a pick of the worst, I would like to ask a question and make a suggestion to the Select Committee
56. My question is-
• Is the Committee comfortable for the PGDB to enforce over a 1000% increase in discipline levies in under a decade and then claim it illegally from tradesman, BUT THEN (and this is my main point and reason for my submission) to use this ill gotten money as a fund to persecute and disadvantage innocent, well meaning, registered trades-people, using this illegal discipline levy as a war chest to bring down any opponents within the industry, or anyone they have a grudge with? As is evidenced by my treatment. They openly boast of a 100% conviction rate.
57. My suggestion is-
• While you are being asked to amend this Act, please consider changing the Act so that the Board is a liable entity or at least open to more than just recommendations, which they routinely ignore. As it is now the Board is non-liable under the Act, and accordingly the PGDB apparently acts with scant regard and impunity The PGDB have done this even while hiding behind, and trying to maintain, the façade of a registered charity, spending as far as I am aware over $46,000.00 in appealing their de-registration as a charity, apparently using the same clause** that is limited to $500.00 when used in making a compensation payment to me because of the letters sent to my customers.
**The Part 148 of the 2006 Act enables the Board in any financial year, to expend for purposes not authorised by any act, a sum not amounting to more than $500.
58. I thank the Committee for your time. And ask with all due respect and humility are these the actions and the behaviour of an organisation that are moral or ethical? Are they the people best suited to lead our industry? Can you trust these people to have a blank cheque as it were, which is what will happen if this is bill is validated and acting with impunity as they are non liable for their actions.
59. There is a huge decline in the industry and training sector, of which I fear we are just seeing the tip of this huge iceberg, the future is bleak. The PGDB is still apparently acting in a corrupt, nepotistic and incompetent manner, continually acting against the best recommendations of the damming OAG report and in the face of the best practice recommendations of the NZ Law Commission, acting apparently in bad faith.
60. If you were in a position to, and are able to appoint a public enquiry, I will provide proof and substance to back my claims.
Yours Sincerely Paul Gee
-
I think it is a huge worry that the person responsible for this is allowed to walk away from this with all the evidence pointing to him, all done in the homes of the very people who voted in the current building minister, with the dodgy work done in their homes on Nelson.
Wrong on so many levels.....
-
I have told everyone and no one listens......now everyone thinks self certification is a liberating and freeing experience and I agree, but only for those selling gas.
We have a system where the problem WILL NOT become apparent until AFTER an incident......
Believe you and me human nature will mean if you are in their sights and its is the system/authorities' or YOU who will be blamed it will ALWAYS be you who gets shafted....unless you're at the top of the pile, remember I was Nelson president and a paid up member of Master Plumbers for years....it was me or the system who was going to get blamed (oh or the guy the system granted a full license to with no training, so they weren't protecting him, they were protecting themselves).....
So the system is totally f****edup.....
The cert system was found to be extremely wanting in my case....which showed other cases of fraud and mismanagement....but they went to pin it on me........then I receive this email below......it is not an ambulance at the bottom of a cliff it is a hearse, which by the what you will pay for with your sanity and business and reputation, then get brushed under the carpet......so very wrong...you have all probably seen this email, below...
From: EnergySafety [mailto:EnergySafety@med.govt.nz]
Sent: Monday, 14 November 2016 5:24 p.m.
Subject: Electrical and Gas High-Risk Database (EGHRD) – Entering physical installation addresses [UNCLASSIFIED]
Good afternoon,
You are receiving this email as a registered practitioner or delegated person on Energy Safety’s Electricity & Gas High Risk Database.
Electrical and Gas High-Risk Database (EGHRD) – Entering physical installation addresses:
The Issue: There are too many “manually” entered addresses, and; they are being entered incorrectly, so this makes it hard to search and find the entry again. It’s easy to avoid this problem – please read on:
There are now over 200,000 entries in the high-risk database. The system is designed to be searchable by anyone, including the public, so installation addresses need to be consistent and correct. About 70% of the installation addresses are selected using the drop-down post office addresses file (PAF) the preferred process where possible, and the rest (30%) are manually entered addresses.
Practitioners have contacted Energy Safety complaining that they or their customers cannot find the entry relating to the work done on customers’ property. Most times this is due to an incorrect format or misspelled address being used. This can also affect the practitioner as a miss-entered record may be considered invalid under the legislation.
Energy Safety has undertaken an analysis of the manually entered addresses. This shows that some addresses are not entered correctly and that the spelling of many places is incorrect (e.g. Auckland is spelled more than 15 different ways and Christchurch more than 20 ways).
"There are now over 200,000 entries in the high-risk database".........HOW MANY ARE COVERED BY A PRINTED OFF CERT WITH NO TRACE ON IT?
Please bring back inspectors and a second opinion......deregulation is a massive mistake and the whole of NZ will be badly served by it.
YOU will foot the bill for this in every way, it is immoral and so very f****edup, but its ok we don't have to wait for an inspector before we walk away and count our money.
-
The funny thing is I could use the old carbon copy system to show how much the PGDB had messed up the system...then it was done away with for a print off all you like system, no handwriting (which also helped me show how the PGDB had messed this up).....just a printer and internet access.....
What could possibly go wrong?
.
-
No one noticed there was a problem.......until the PUBLIC went looking for certs.....
HERE'S SOMETHING TO PONDER.....
If I installed a giant elephant with a package burner inserted in his rectum in someone's living room but misspelled, and wrote ForfeckingChristsakeChurch instead of Christchurch, no one would know until we had trunk and bowels and elephant shit all over the place.....
I am dyslexic, and so are quite a few of the tradies I know......I think a high % might be misspelled......
The morons have taken over the asylum.....
.
-
Newsflash.....
ITS A HIGHLY VOLITILE HYDRO-CARBON GAS.....IT BLOWS SHIT UP.......
Right Nelly lets have a cup of tea, fire up the package burner, I'll have milk and two......BOOOOOOM.....!!!!!!
-
Here is the one that blows me away.....new installs and new builds don't have to be registered......remember the housing shortage and all the new houses they want to build.....
200,000 is a lot....any one know what % of work is being done.....that doesn't require it to be registered with an independent body??
I bet for every firm that does the right thing there will be another bending the rules......if there were any rules....
-
yeah badger, not enough guys to go around so who will be `Supervising` the guy doing the work? cheers
-
This is where it all falls over........they can do a simple calc about who is licenced to supervise against those who require supervising....
Then look at it and say, jesus how many is one guy supervising......all the info is there for them to see, if they would look.....
Try matching supervising license numbers against building consents, man hours required etc.......its bollox.....total and utter bollox....
The gov't and the gas sellers get a cost free stick to beat us with, and tell the public that they are looking out for them......that's sooo fair ......we should complain to the Ombudsman (he doesn't give a flying Donald duck by the way, I know I asked him)....
There ain't a problem.....until there is a problem.....this system that we finance and shoulder the burden for AND get set up with.... is insufficient and does nothing until after the fact and holds US responsible for the crap system enforced on us......so how empowered do you feel now? I personally would rather wait for an inspector to give it the once over, then give me the nod and share the burden.
All those certs out there with your name on......FFS....think about it....you're 65 just retired saved enough for your "wait till you die"......some muppet decides to alter your work and it blows up.....guess what happens next????? Your f****ed, and it might be work that is quite old, been there and got the tee shirt....
.
-
So we went from a quadruplicate copy carbon transfer of information taken from the top copy, all filled out in handwriting, each copy had a separate place to be kept independently and could only be bought from the PGDB, hard to forge and hard to alter without it being obvious and traceable, with the original copy kept by the PGDB FOR ALL WORK, THATS ALL WORK............
Now after my case proved that the PGDB had accepted incomplete certs, some lacking gas test results (at least one of which resulted in an explosion), PGDB had lost copies of certs, some for ever....some reappeared when I went to the supplier and got the carbon copy, very useful part which we have lost, PGDB ignored people adding information after signing (as proved by the carbon copy), handled so bad they had to add a disclaimer for accuracy........
So they replaced it with a system that can be "printed" off....hell they'll even give you a template.....no carbon copy and (and this one totally does me in) you don't register any new builds, new installs ........what the f**** is all that about?????......its a bad joke eh?
Do you remember a while back a guy was selling passports to his community.......some times we can have communities that are insular and keep them selves to themselves.....think on that, then think on someone buying that place at a later date.
Now here is one for you, if you think that if you don't register then you can't be sought out.....lack of evidence won't stop them.....the PGDB hid some from me.....evidence that proved what I had said for 2 years after the explosion and the previous 6 years before that.....
Assume the position fellas....cos there ain't a problem until there is a problem.....then they will totally screw you over.....
Can some one please explain to me if any of the above is wrong....if it is not wrong.....then you should be up in arms.....
They will use this system to make YOU look bad if anything goes a wry.......no matter how bad the system is, good luck guys you're going to need it.....and as for the public and their safety.....well what do you think this system will lead to?
-
It appears on the face of it that the PGDB mal- administered the original (and then the electronic) cert system.......that it has been decided that the gasfitters could do a better job of administering themselves, and for 70% of gasfitters I would probably agree that we could do a better job....especially as the PGDB set the bar so low......
But what about the 30% of numbnutts (and we have all met them at the merchants).....who I wouldn't trust with dog licensing, the thing is the PGDB have empowered them and given them credibility(in the public's eye).....and don't get me started on the ones that put profit before safety, and they are out there I have met them too....
And here is your biggest problem, the powers that be are so used to bullying people in to submission, that when someone raises his head above the parapet with a genuine concern...well they take them out and / or bury it and try to pretend it didn't happen.
If things had improved with this gas cert system I could almost (ALMOST) let this go......but it has gotten much much worse.....
Remember it took about 6 years for the chipshop to explode, 6 years after I had tried to raise my concerns about dodgy certs covering dangerous work.....
.
-
And what about the general,public who print them off and use the info that was on the PGDB website ( registration no's). Then we have to pay to prosecute them. Gosh, if only someone could have seen that coming.
-
Its a very bad joke, sadly on us and the NZ public mate, it is moronic.....oh and we fund it too.....
The best part is..... when (not if) it fails, it won't be the systems fault or the goons who thought this system up, it will be the scapegoats fault (to be picked out when it suits, it could be YOU.....been there got that tee shirt).
Deregulation is the biggest mistake in NZ industries history, profit before fairness, safety, common decency, we all go along with it because of the financial carrot and convenience of not being dependant on an inspector.....
Look at Pyke River, no inspector, people chasing money and being led by a company more focused on a financial return than safety. And don't tell me there are people who don't cut corners...I have met them and they are usually the ones who are connected.....why? because they KNOW they can get away with it and act with impunity......
Nick Smith won't even look into the 100's of jobs that the pillock installed in Nelson, you know the guy who is really responsible for the chipshop explosion, faced a charge for it but it disappeared.......well this work is still in peoples homes, in his constituents homes.....the very people who he is voted in to represent......you think he'll do the right thing with this bollocks system, will he f****.....
.
-
Wombles mate how is it going to come to light (before an incident)..... if an unqualified someone does all the gas work himself, uses your license number off the PGDB website, prints off a very credible cert template and as it is classed as a "new" install it doesn't even need to be lodged anywhere....but it all looks totally legit....
This so call "safety" cert is produced on selling the new house, not classed as "high risk"............but a flueless heater has been installed in a bedroom....it gases the kids of the people who bought the house some YEARS later.
How are you going to prove it was not your job, how are you going to prove you "don't have a copy"....you'll be called a liar (as my experience has told me)......the investigation alone can put you under business wise and sanity wise. The PGDB sent letters to all the areas where I had done business telling the untruth that I had been involved in selling illegal certs in Northland (a place I had never even holidayed in). The case of this selling of illegal certs in the North Island....still before them today as far as I know, I have a letter stating this from the PGDB.
By the way the idiot the PGDB are protecting once thought he has being cleaver when he was told a flueless heater couldn't be installed in a bedroom....by crossing out "bedroom" on the building plans and writing "study".
If you ignore history, you are doomed to repeat your mistakes......if you can frame innocent people for nothing and get away with it, you'll keep doing it, getting more brazen in the belief you can act with impunity.
I was framed as a scapegoat and the guilty are being protected by the PGDB, fact....I am sure they would write me a letter if none of this is true......but it is, so slander and defamation doesn't count if its based in fact, its called telling the truth.
Good luck guys dealing with this if it happens to you, I lost everything....well lost implies I misplaced it.....I had everything taken from me by a bunch of corrupts.
.
-
It is my experience that, and I can not emphasise this enough......
The protection of "the system" and the "powers that be" and their reputations totally out weigh observing fairness and protecting the public, they come first and you will pay the piper if it allows them to push their agenda.
And on top of this the Ombudsman does not give a flying Donald Duck.
-
Carrying on from the scenario below, what do you think these people will do/say.....
So at the inquiry about how this could happen, do you think they will say.....
"Ah yes the original cert system and then the electronic register was found wanting by the explosion that nearly killed someone, but we managed to cover that up and now have the "high risk" register".
Are they f****....they will pin it on the next available patsy and continue on their merry way....they are too far down a path to admit it is wrong.....
By the way my take on the "high risk" register system is..... that it is a very very high risk system to ignore new installs, very high risk and it couldn't be named any more appropriately than if was called the "lets empower the cowboys" register.
Ask your self the question, if there is an incident....and you are involved in it or even near it.....will you get a fair go? Would they drag you in to protect themselves.....I KNOW THE ANSWER IS YES.
.
-
And all this ineptitude is done at a risk to the NZ public's health and safety.....and the gasfitters are wearing all the responsibility and accountability.
Basically if you play fair and follow the rules, you'll be holding the very evidence that could incriminate you, while the real people making a killing are those selling gas, (with as much accountability as a franchise of a McRestruant) or the cowboys......
Think about it....all that a dodgy cowboy got to do to fly under the radar, and make heaps of money while he is at it.....is to only do new builds and issue credible looking certs (all down loaded for his convenience of the PGDB, along with any one of your license numbers, he could even use your name), THEN his work will only come to light AFTER an incident.....when would be the best time to do this????
Oh in a housing shortage, that's when......talk about a perfect storm brewing.....
Ahh well..... as long as people are making money and don't have to suffer the inconvenience of waiting for an inspector (and the gas companies don't have to provide or finance that inspector).
Guess which people pushed for deregulation, corrupt tossers like Tony Hammond (the corrupt so called "impartial" investigator) and Stephen Parker (Tony's mate at GANZ who chaired my hearing AND shut it down before I was could prove my innocence).
Please don't tell me things have changed because two of the people who are up to their necks in my case are the present chair and vice chair of PGDB.
So until the PGDB wipe the slate clean or face the corruption levelled at me, I think I can be excused for thinking their pontificating is as full of shit as their heads are.
-
If only people could see the bigger picture......the more shoddy the industry becomes, the more un-reliable, the more surreal....the less people use gas....
I meet people all the time who tell me how dangerous it is then tell me some horrific story of their experience.
These so called leaders of industry not only have blinkers on, but can't see past their own ego's and pockets either, we should be setting up for the future, not from the future.....we are taking from our future, to fill our pockets in the short term, it is so very short sighted. Mark my words you haven't seen the worst of this system, it is a joke (sadly on us and the NZ public).
-
The first gas company that grasps the opportunity to promote real servicing, servicing contracts, promoting safety and proper accountability putting it BEFORE the short gain of profit margins (I do understand the necessity of staying financially stable, there is a difference to greed).... will out sell and out live the "sell gas at any cost and shit appliances with the biggest mark up" companies.....
Tried to tell a guy about the benefits of a proper service register to cover your down time in the summer, his answer was astounding.....
"Appliances are better left because the call backs are a nightmare to deal with, if it's working leave it we like to leave it alone"......ffs really? The size and connectedness of this guy is very troubling, but he reflects most of the people I have met in the gas indusrty.
Here's an idea train your people properly, sell decent quality appliances and be the go to company with gas.
-
I am, and never have been, anti Board or anti regulation, but I am anti corrupts covering up for their dangerous systems and dodgy f****ers of mates
-
Anyone new reading this thread, please take the time to read it from the start.......
Bare in mind that the original gas "safety" certificate system that covered this near fatal explosion, has been replaced with a new system that is not only far worse and is more open to manipulation, but doesn't even have to be registered anywhere for new installs, other than copies held by the person who is making a profit from the work and will be holding the very evidence that may incriminate himself. Most will play fair and do the right thing, but there will be a few who are dodgy, sadly in my case it was the PGDB who allowed a corrupt process to ruin my life.
This system we have been forced into is inadequate to say the least, both for the protection of the tradesman and the public. It is more open to mis-management (if there was any management) and is definitely a hearse, not an ambulance, at the bottom of a cliff.
.
-
45,000 reads.....
We have a gas certifying system for work done in our homes that for new homes don't have to be registered anywhere, except copies kept by the installer....this system was imposed on NZ after the PGDB made such a pig ear of the original system that it was taken away from them and replace with a far more inferior system that is so open to abuse it is embarrassing, please see on this thread some of the blatant evidence ignored by the PGDB, COVERING UP FOR THE REAL GUILTY PERSON WHO WAS GIVEN HIS FULL CERTIFYING LICENSE AFTER ONE "CHAT".....then when he nearly killed some one they appointed the same person who held the "chat" and gave him his license as the investigator......
Dear Select Committee,
1. Introduction
2. My name is Paul Gee, a certifying gasfitter and plumber from the Tasman/Nelson area. I am in full agreement with the Plumbers, Gasfitters and Drainlayers Federation’s submission, and only offer this personal submission under my own steam and banner to go toward showing how the Plumbers, Gasfitters and Drainlayers Board (PGDB) have spent the illegally gained funds, needlessly savaging my life and terrorising my wife in doing so.
3. I have lost my business and reputation, my home and time with my young family, all for a situation that I had tried to warn about for 6 years previously, before an explosion nearly killed someone, i.e. dodgy certs covering dodgy work. With no one held accountable for this. As this situation spans almost 10 years of my life and is hugely personal to me I am truly thankful for all understanding and consideration shown for this lengthy submission and I thank you in advance for this.
4. I believe the Board have made a scapegoat of me to hide their own short comings and in-action.
5. Concerns
6. My concerns are centred on the illegally funded past and current prosecution and discipline systems of the PGDB within the gasfitting industry and the apparent covering up by the PGDB of either a badly designed gas safety certification system and/or incompetence/malpractice administering this system.
7. I believe that the Board ignored conflicts of interest and acted in bad faith, with out duty of care and against natural justice; leading to an unfair and needless investigation and the resulting decision by the Board in respect to me. Please note that I strongly believe in industry regulation and the holding of “cowboys” to account within the industry, which was why I had tried to warn about all of this from the outset.
8. I believe they undertook a needless disciplinary action against me, utilising these illegally gained funds spending over $200,000.00 on my case. What has occurred to me has since been made available to the Building and Housing Minister.
9. In particular, my concerns are not just about the afore mentioned conflicts of interests that were ignored, but also the misrepresentation and withholding of evidence and the resulting decision of the Board, and in particular the way the investigation was carried out.
10. Background
11. I am a qualified gas service engineer in the United Kingdom, trained by British Gas in 1989. I was registered by the PGDB as a craftsman gasfitter on 15 February 1999.
12. I began working for a gas company in late February 2003 in Nelson. At the beginning of this employment, I was instructed by the manager to fill out the work sheets only and the office staff would fill out the gas certification certificate and I only had to sign them, then the office staff would file them. Note: The manger and office staff was a family and related, i.e. a husband (manager), wife (office manager), daughter (office girl) and son in law (limited licence gasfitter, who worked unsupervised most of the time).
13. After approximately five months of employment with this gas company, I became very concerned about how gasfitting work was being carried out and the possible safety implications of this apparent malpractice. I attempted to raise this concern verbally with the manager; however it was dismissed by him. Toward the end of the period of this employment I handed back certificates to the manager, refusing to sign them as they were unfinished or unsafe.
14. On 10 November 2003, I attended a meeting with the Manager. At this meeting, I submitted a written statement outlining my safety concerns; this written statement was later provided to the Board and appears in my Hearing’s Bundle (HB).
15. On 13 November 2003, I was issued with a written warning by the manager for how I had expressed my concerns about safety to his son in law, (HB). In response to this written warning I indicated I would resign as soon as was practicable.
16. On 14 November 2003, four books of non-transferable gas certificates were ordered, for the one and only time, by some one at the gas company. It was done in my name, without my knowledge, (HB).
17. On 19 November 2003, I gave two weeks notice and resigned from this gas company, (HB).
18. I later found out, after the explosion, that on the 4th March 2004, three months after I left, someone from this gas company, on this company’s letterhead, wrote a letter in my name to alter a gas certificate to the PGDB, which was apparently acted on, (HB).
19. I then began work as a subcontractor for a different gas company in December 2003 where I immediately became aware of improper use of gas certificates that were in my name, actually one of the certificates I had refused to sign because the job was unsafe/unfinished, (HB).
20. In response, I contacted the PGDB by telephone, which was when I became aware of the 4 books ordered in my name, and again in writing on 6 January 2004. In response, the PGDB replied to me, dismissing my complaint and providing what I believe are inconsistencies and incorrect facts. (HB)
21. A year later I came across yet another irregular certificate in my name, covering unsafe work. I contacted a lawyer, as the Board refused to talk to me without one, on 13 January 2005. (HB)
22. I also contacted my former employer, the gas company mentioned above, which had a new manager, on the 24 January 2005.
23. The outcome of my lawyer’s inquiry to the PGDB was there were over a 1000 certificates in my name and it would cost $25 per certificate to check. I could not afford this potential sum of $25,000 and told them so by phone. The letter from the Board’s lawyer had inconsistencies and incorrect facts. I had only worked at this gas company for some 10 months.
24. I approached a Member of Parliament on 24 May 2006 after hearing no further from the PGDB. A letter was written to the PGDB on 6 June 2006. No response was made to me. I followed up this letter by sending a fax to a member of the PGDB on 21 August 2006. Again, I had no response. I later contacted another Member of Parliament by email, outlining my concerns for health and safety. This was passed on to the Minister for Safety and Health at the time. This Minister replied indicating he would look into the matter; however I received no further contact. Most, if not all, of the proof of this correspondence is in the possession of the PGDB, (HB).
25. On 8 July 2009, the Board received a complaint from the Department of Labour, regarding a gas explosion at 136 Milton Street, Nelson. An “impartial” investigator was appointed according to section 40 of the Act.
26. I requested an impartiality hearing with PGDB, it was held on 22 February 2011 where I raised concerns about conflicts of interest. They were dismissed.
27. Disciplinary action was taken against me under section 42 of the Plumbers, Gasfitters and Drainlayers Act 1976 (“the Act”) as a result of the investigation. The matter was heard between 3 and 5 May 2011 by the Board. The decision was given in July 2011 where I was found guilty under section 42(1)(c) of the Act in relation to only one of the seven properties that were investigated by the “impartial” investigator.
28. Out of 44 charges laid by the Board, I was found guilty of only two, neither of which was at the site of the explosion that initiated the complaint by the Department of Labour. No one else as far as I am aware was questioned about the site of the explosion, whether as part of the initial investigation or since.
29. The Board required I undertake a course of instruction as an extra condition of re-licensing as a certified gasfitter for the 2013/2014 licensing year.
30. This “course of instruction” had to be custom made for me at my expense. I have recently carried out an “assessment”, rather than course of instruction. I passed with a 90% mark and was told by the assessor that I would be in the top 10% of the people he had ever assessed.
31. Of the “impartial” investigators initial audits of my work, none of his initial concerns made it to charges that later surfaced in a second audit. This second audit was ordered by him on the basis of these initial audits and “concerns”. A letter from the Board’s lawyer states that three years worth of my work was audited, but the “impartial” investigator only claims to have audited 10% of my work for that period.
32. On 2 October 2009, the then Acting Registrar of The Board sent letters to the owners of six properties where the PGDB alleged I had carried out gasfitting work and that were identified by the “impartial” investigator’s investigation as having compliance issues.
33. These letters, which covered each and every area that I had ever worked in for my own business, from the West Coast to Havelock of the top of the south island, with Nelson and Motueka in between, one or two letters per area. By far the most damaging was the one to Motueka High school, the only high school in what WAS my main centre of business, and my business disappeared not long after these letters. I wasn’t made aware of these letters until the Motueka High school contacted me.
34. These letters noted there was an issue with a number of gas certificates illegally sold affecting a number of homes from Northland to Waikato and the Bay of Plenty, and that the certificate pertaining to their address was one of these. I have never carried out work in these North Island areas and these letters caused me the loss of my business, distress and loss of reputation.
35. By far the worst event on a personal level was during the build up and preparation for my Hearing, the “impartial” investigator’s lawyer sent to my home, unmarked child sexual abuse case notes to prove his point on probabilities. As they were unmarked of their vile content, my long suffering wife read them and I came home to find her hysterical. At this time she was facing living in a caravan for the winter with her husband working away, minding our two young sons, as we were financially forced to sell our home. This situation that my wife faced later happened and I have had to work away for nearly two years since. I have told the present CEO of the Board about this, he has no problem with it and another PGDB member’s solution that he offered to me was “…had I thought of returning to the UK or going to Aussie”.
36. I filed a notice of appeal to the decision of the Board on 16 November 2011. The appeal was heard in the High Court on 5 March 2012 and the decision given on 14 March 2012. The focus of this appeal was on the finding I was guilty of an act or omission contrary to the integrity of the gasfitting trade. The appeal was dismissed.
37. On 22 June 2012, the Boards external assessor and QC released an opinion on eight complaints I raised. She concluded that under the Board’s Historical Complaints Resolution Policy, only one of my complaints fell within the scope of the Policy: that the letters sent by the Board’s Acting Registrar on 2 October 2009 did cause me a disadvantage. I have heard nothing since.
38. Impartiality
39. My claim is that the “impartial” investigator was not an impartial investigator as is required for natural justice. He is a member and fellow of the NZIGE and a member of IPENZ, GANZ and the Kennedy Trust and at the time my old boss was also a member of NZIGE and other gas groups.
40. In addition, I believe that the “impartial” investigator was the person who granted my old boss his full craftsman status, after just one oral exam and with no apprenticeship served.
41. The “impartial” investigator also was nominated by GANZ to co-author the NZ 5261, the standard that I had offered an alternative to in defending against my two founded charges. This is a conflict of interest that should not have been ignored. I tried to raise the issue at the impartiality hearing in February 2011, where my concerns were dismissed.
42. I believe that the table 16 of NZ 5261, which he refers to within this Standard and is particular to my charges, is contradictory and confusing. Table 16 had also been amended which gives the tradesman the impression that the table is not strict in its application, not to mention it is in the non-mandatory part two of the standard.
43. The present Chairman of the PGDB and a panel member of my hearing is also a member of IPENZ, of which NZIGE is an arm of that according to a press release from IPENZ – “NZIGE collaborates closely with IPENZ”. This same person released a press release just after my Hearing stating I lacked fundamental knowledge of my trade, this appeared in my local newspaper.
44. I also believe there was a conflict of interest between the “impartial” investigator and the Presiding Board Member at the disciplinary hearing. The “impartial” investigator and the Presiding Board Member have served together in numerous organisations, NZIGE, GANZ, and the Kennedy Trust, and have made numerous presentations together as a duo to the gas industry.
45. The Presiding Board Member was on the executive of GANZ, the nominating organisation for the “impartial” investigator to co-author the referenced standard NZ 5261.
46. The “impartial” investigator was the technical adviser to the Presiding Board Member at GANZ. I believe this would lead to the Presiding Board Member to put more weight in the “impartial” investigator’s opinion because of their personal relationship and their work on NZ 5261. They would both, in all probability, want the integrity of NZ 5261 to remain intact because of their involvement in developing it.
47. The “impartial” investigator was also heavily involved with the deregulation of the gas industry and a driving force behind self certification for gasfitting. In light of this I believe he would also have a vested interest in maintaining the integrity of this certification system he had helped create, which has some apparent serious flaws in its application and the PGDB’s administration of it, most if not all of this was raised at the impartiality hearing I had requested, but was dismissed.
48. Further, at the site of this explosion no one has been held accountable, although all copies of the last certificate issued for work carried out at this site of an explosion; lack any gas leak test entry which is a compulsory field on the now electronic website. This certificate is totally in my old manager’s name and was signed for a year after the initial installation and at least a year after my leaving the employment of the gas company mentioned above. The PGDB claim never to have received or registered this certificate, but an electronic version appears on the electronic register on their website. This electronic register also carries a disclaimer stating the inaccuracy of the register.
49. Unfair Investigation
50. I believe I was unfairly investigated, as were the charges brought against me regarding seven properties. Only two, out of 44 charges, regarding one property were upheld, which would be dismissed by a well used British Standard, if it was allowed.
51. As a result my business and reputation was damaged and my ability to earn an income suffered. I believe that the PGDB appointed investigator was not an impartial investigator and that serious evidence was misrepresented or ignored at the Hearing. I was presumed guilty, having to prove innocence and disadvantaged by not allowing me to submit further evidence, which would clear me of all wrong doing, for a situation I had tried to warn about for 6 years.
52. My appeal was dismissed because I could not, due to limiting PGDB policy, give any further evidence. The evidence I tried to adduce was a British Standard that would show what I had done was safe and a relevant alternative to the non-mandatory part two of the NZ 5261 standard that I was found guilty of contravening. Of note, the only other certifying gasfitter in the room at the hearing was on the panel for the PGDB, and he was British.
53. I also tried to adduce an email from another, co-author of NZ5261. This email said I could use a British Standard if it was relevant, and I believe it is. This would have left me completely innocent of any wrong-doing.
54. At the actual hearing I had offered other information and illustrated how I knew the fumes would behave on the appliance I had been later found guilty for installing and certifying. The owner of the same dwelling said he had no problems with it in the previous six years since installation, and it was the only obvious place to put the appliance in question. Even the “impartial” investigator also commented that if the fumes were not entering the building then I would have complied with Part one of NZ5261 which is mandatory, and so I would have done nothing wrong. All of this evidence was apparently ignored, with no further evidence put forward by the PGDB, other than the above mentioned “Table 16”, to go to show what I had done was dangerous, which I still believe it was not.
55. In light of this treatment, and it is very brief and incomplete and a pick of the worst, I would like to ask a question and make a suggestion to the Select Committee
56. My question is-
• Is the Committee comfortable for the PGDB to enforce over a 1000% increase in discipline levies in under a decade and then claim it illegally from tradesman, BUT THEN (and this is my main point and reason for my submission) to use this ill gotten money as a fund to persecute and disadvantage innocent, well meaning, registered trades-people, using this illegal discipline levy as a war chest to bring down any opponents within the industry, or anyone they have a grudge with? As is evidenced by my treatment. They openly boast of a 100% conviction rate.
57. My suggestion is-
• While you are being asked to amend this Act, please consider changing the Act so that the Board is a liable entity or at least open to more than just recommendations, which they routinely ignore. As it is now the Board is non-liable under the Act, and accordingly the PGDB apparently acts with scant regard and impunity The PGDB have done this even while hiding behind, and trying to maintain, the façade of a registered charity, spending as far as I am aware over $46,000.00 in appealing their de-registration as a charity, apparently using the same clause** that is limited to $500.00 when used in making a compensation payment to me because of the letters sent to my customers.
**The Part 148 of the 2006 Act enables the Board in any financial year, to expend for purposes not authorised by any act, a sum not amounting to more than $500.
58. I thank the Committee for your time. And ask with all due respect and humility are these the actions and the behaviour of an organisation that are moral or ethical? Are they the people best suited to lead our industry? Can you trust these people to have a blank cheque as it were, which is what will happen if this is bill is validated and acting with impunity as they are non liable for their actions.
59. There is a huge decline in the industry and training sector, of which I fear we are just seeing the tip of this huge iceberg, the future is bleak. The PGDB is still apparently acting in a corrupt, nepotistic and incompetent manner, continually acting against the best recommendations of the damming OAG report and in the face of the best practice recommendations of the NZ Law Commission, acting apparently in bad faith.
60. If you were in a position to, and are able to appoint a public enquiry, I will provide proof and substance to back my claims.
Yours Sincerely Paul Gee
-
Think on this..... we are living in a period of an unprecedented housing shortage, so rightfully we are pushing for more new homes.....that is a lot of new installs............
None of these new installs need to be registered with any formal register or government agency......
Surely no one would put profit before safety ::)......people would never give money priority over their customers safety ???.......
Well....I actually worked for a person who did...... and all the evidence I have seen (and the PGDB have seen) points to him and his involvement in an explosion that nearly killed someone..........but the PGDB have covered it up for him to protect themselves....AT A RISK TO THE SAFETY OF THE NZ PUBLIC........are you comfortable with this?
I ask you in all honesty................what message are the PGDB sending to the people who are willing to risk others safety for profit ?
If you do not address your mistakes and take ownership of them, then you are doomed to repeat them.
.
-
Just came across this in my garage, it is an anniversary mug, handed out at work when I worked for Allgas back in 2003 (I blanked out the very large gas supplier's name and motif with black insulation tape).
Now this is the type of person who the PGDB are covering up for, his nick name to all the employee's was "Porn Dad".....I asked why and was told it was because he had a huge television.....WTF, was my reply.
A bobtail full of LPG rolls and a year later they are still laughing about it, believe me it was very funny to them when they were handing these mugs out.....I thought I had landed in a very surreal episode of the Beverly hill billy's (it was a family run business).
ALL THE EVIDENCE POINTS TO THIS GUY.....BUT THE BOARD IGNORES IT AND ACTUALLY LET THE CHARGE HE FACED FOR THE NEAR FATAL EXPLOSION.....JUST DISSAPPEAR....POOF....ALL UP IN AN CLOUD OF DUST (AND DEBRIS...OH AND A GUYS CHIP SHOP).
.
-
This is just the tip of the iceberg.....I know I have put this on here before, but am going to re do this on a regular basis to high light how blatantly I was set up for the new readers, and will continue to do so until it is addressed.
And the PGDB has all this info, I actually got it from them......
Just to recap.....I worked from Feb 2003 until 2nd December 2003........
But the PGDB have no problem whatsoever with the sale of the third gas hose (this is the very hose that actually caused the explosion) being sold in January 2004 (after the initial install was June 2003) and someone from Allgas altering a gas certificate, acting in my name, in March 2004 (three months after I left).
.
-
hi guys, badger, so why would we want the pgd.board to take charge of the gas cert system again?, cheers
-
My point is the decline mate.......from a peer reviewed, independently inspected system, to the total cock up that the PGDB made of the self certifying system(both carbon and electronic systems), to the present "print off all you like" system and not register it anywhere if its for a new install (which from my experience was the majority of the installations, especially in todays housing shortage climate).
Unless the PGDB addresses their past mistakes/corruption/maladministration and cover ups....purging the guilty from their ranks........I wouldn't entrust them with looking after the school hamster for half term.....
I can see it now......Yes headmaster you can trust us, Hammy was all safe and locked away..... I don't know where the tyre marks came from or why his eyes look like there on stalks and his intestines are hanging out, perhaps it was Paul Gee, yes lets pin it on him.
(I know some are new to the PGDB, but it is a continuous membership board.... and so the new members inherit the PGDB's past)
.
-
hi guys, badger the new gas cert system could have been secure if the present organization who control it would have only issued certs to authorized gasfitters by having a list of tradesmen who should be carrying out the work, it would have been such a simple addition to the rules, where was the thinking when the great minds altered the system, cheers
-
I agree mate..... a very simple rule to add,
....... but if my experience is anything to go by, a very difficult rule (the PGDB found it quite impossible apparently) to enforce.......
because the PGDB had no problem in someone ordering four book of certs in my name and paying with it on their credit card, ordering these four books of certs in my name the day after I told my old boss to shove his job up his dodgy arse....of note they did carry a non transferable heading across the top, I have a letter where they dismiss this also.
The thing is this is how badly the PGDB handled my case and before the explosion were mal-administering the gas cert register.........this is why they need to put their hands up and let us all learn from their mistakes, not brush it under the carpet (which usually causes a trip hazard for the future).....
Look how dodgy all this looks in the attachments, the extra additions to the multiple order request etc .......and the so called impartial investigator admitting knowledge of it well before they ruined my life and business....I knew nothing of these certs being ordered and it was of no issue to the PGDB when it came to light AFTER someone nearly died in an explosion......
So the people in all their wisdom have invented a system that is very lax to say the least and even more open to abuse and misrepresentation AND hardly any records kept in an independent govt register......
SO WHAT DID THEY LEARN FROM MY CASE..............HOW TO KEEP THEIR OWN NOSES CLEAN, AND HEAP THE RESPONSIBILITY ON TO US TRADIES........while upping the potential risk to the NZ public........what a bunch of total low down dirty cunts.
Of note the four books of certs had quite a few of them (about 25% from memory) with missing gas leak test results......the PGDB claimed that they could not locate these certs.....but them lo and behold found them when I went to the gas suppliers and photographed the yellow suppliers copies and sent them to them, these copies also were missing the gas test results.......EXACTLY IN THE SAME MANNER AS THE EXPLODING CHIPSHOP, THAT NEARLY KILLED SOME ONE.
.
These books of certs resulted in the ACCURACEY disclaimer on the electronic system, as well as a load more of badly handled certs.
.
-
And this very crap gas SAFETY (LOL) cert system.........is being used extensively in peoples homes as we speak.
Where new installs are not classed as high risk and so need no records kept, except the copies kept by gasfitters in his office/house .....is being used in a housing shortage....with lots and lots of new installs.............
How on earth are the powers that be keeping tabs on this....how do you audit/check the work.....unless you give them full access to your records/documents, it will be a case of the fitter pulling out his best work to show the auditor......oh wait there..... there is no auditor......it is a shambles.
Someone could be fitting industrial package burners in peoples bedrooms and then keep their certs in a wine box in their garage......no one would be any the wiser......until someone gets hurt......
It is batshit crazy.....
The new cert system has no worth in incident prevention and has a very limited value as an traceability/accountability tool.....its just really very shit.
.
-
The "Invested" Investigator knew this on the 31 July 2009 a few months after the explosion and nearly two years before my hearing in May 2011......but he still wanted to pin it on me and not my old boss......
Well Tony Hammond (the so not impartial) investigator was responsible for granting my old boss his full certifying gas license......after just one oral exam...with no apprenticeship served.
-
Here is Tony lobbying for deregulation, which resulted in the self cert system, which failed miserably.....
You'll notice the dates and his list of affiliations on the back.....
Also attached is Darnley resigning from NZ Institute of Gas Engineers, the month after the explosion.....co-incidence?
We complained about all this at the so called impartiality hearing.............
Perhaps this is why Darnley could face a charge for the explosion........but it disappeared.....see attached...
-
Here's the list of affiliations I am on about.....and this was when the deregulation paper was written.......quite some time before the explosion.....
-
So John Darnley resigns from the NZIGE the very next month after the explosion, and appointed to investigate this explosion, is Tony Hammond, who was a member (fellow even) of the NZIGE...... is appointed to investigate.......
Tony the guy who gifted John his full craftsman license after one oral exam and it was Tony who lobbied for deregulation/self certification.....
Now Peter Jackson and Graham Hardie were heavily involved in my case...I complained about these blatant clash of interests to these people......I also complained about Stephen Parkers ties to Hammond.....
What happened......well the still appointed Tony Hammond as the investigator and Stephen Parker as the chair of my hearing.....
After it was shown to be bullshit at my hearing(clearing 42 out of 44 charges), some stopped working at the Board....... BUT.......
Look at who's still running the PGDB......who is now the chair and vice chair?
Anything changed?.......Peter Jackson and Graham Hardie....well they are chair and vice chair......
....
-
Have a read of the impartiality hearing and look who presided over it......think things have changed since here.......two got promoted....lol.
-
If you are really bored, have a read of the actual kangaroo court I was subjected to....you'll find in here, amongst other crap....
......another fraud un-earthed, people making statements like....well if I'd been shown these photos I would never have signed my statement (most if not all statements were kindly prepared for people to sign, and they were given the impression that I was illegally selling certs in Northland, this was rescinded some many months later, I will explain this one separately as it is quite complex).
......my answers to the 44 trumped up charges.....like where the investigator swears that the install hadn't changed since I had worked there.......even though a cert was issued for work done days before his site visit....
.....the dodgy investigator admitting that if I had complied with the mandatory part one, then the non mandatory part two was irrelevant....as its a means of compliance.....this is the only charge they "got me for"......but later ignored and told an elderly couple to shut their window when using the gas califont.....
.....the hearing being shut down as I was about to go 100% innocent, shut down by the dodgy investigator's buddy who was chairing the hearing
These are just the low lights there is much much more, even a bit of humour with my answers.....like I said if your bored and got some time to see what you could be subjected to have a gander......remember most people just plead guilty because of the threat of a fine and costs......my principles would not allow me to plead guilty to something I had tried to warn about for 6 years before the explosion...NEARLY KILLLED SOMEONE......and no-one has been held accountable to this day, but there is ample and obvious evidence of who is responsible........
Still think the new crew can be trusted.......just a clean up crew I reckon......helping cover it all up......dodgy, at a risk to the NZ public it is deplorable and disgusting.
All in the minister who is responsible for our portfolio's back yard in the homes of the people who he is supposed to represent and protect.......reprehensible!
This muppet, that to this day still goes protected by the PGDB......worked for decades in Nelson, gifted a full gas certifying license after one chat with the same guy who was appointed as the dodgy investigator years later......this work is still out there......FOR f****S SAKE!
.
.
.
-
An example of another job.....which hasn't killed yet is this central heating system, that I saw started....and was told later by the apprentice it was completed.....the apprentice seen this after I had left Allgas and was dropping of the pex crimping tool to the site......to crimp the fittings......the dozy bastards were commissioning the califont as he got there.....he literally dropped the tool and ran because of the smell of gas......I shit you not.....
Any heating experts out there know anything about segregation of potable and non potable water and the risks of legionnaires disease?
-
Now see that diagram below of where the water is stored in the rads by the Thermostatic Rad Valves (TRV's)....all summer......but then open in winter......for the stagnant water out of the shower rose....all atomised ready to breath in......
-
You might want to read the attachment, the shear amount of times I have raised this is crazy.......but the PGDB won't even look at it...........why is that?
Oh I don't know......check out the certifier.......a guy given his full certifying license for gas, with a dispensation to fit water heaters.......with no frickin apprenticeship that's who.....the same guy who got off with a charge for the explosion, when all the evidence points to him......that's who....
LOL look at the cert with two different colour inks on it.......just like the one that covered the explosion and a load of others......
-
Sent today to Martin Sawyers the PGDB CEO, with the attachments from below, you can judge the trust you can put in the new guard by his response.....I am told things are better under the new management......lets see if it is.....
Paul Gee <plumbngas@gmail.com>
Attachments12:45 PM (0 minutes ago)
to Martin, Wal
Martin,
Please see attached the correspondence with the PGDB regarding my very real concerns about a very badly designed and I am told installed central heating system.
Please advise if you are of the same opinion as your predecessor, if you are not and think this is worth taking a look at and taking a water sample before this system kills someone then let me know.
As you are now aware of this system, please don't feign ignorance if/when it makes someone ill.
I suggest you get a heating engineer to take a look at my diagram, also attached and get an independent opinion.
Please bare in mind I warned about dodgy certs covering dangerous work for 6 years before the explosion that the PGDB are still protecting Darnley for, lets not do this again and ignore me as I haven't been proved wrong yet (well not in the context of my trade, my belief in a fair system was totally wrong).
We have had a very hot summer, the owner is elderly, legionnaires grows best at 25 to 55 deg C and is more easily inhaled causing acute pneumonia....this is a perfect storm.
You could do the right thing and fix all this, including looking at the huge body of evidence that point to who really blew up a chipshop and nearly killed someone. I still walk around wearing the stigma for this I might add, even though even the corrupt PGDB hearing I was subjected to could find no fault in me.
You are in charge of a continuous membership Board, YOU inherit all its good and bad work and leave YOUR mark for its future.....it is your call.
Cheers Paul.
.
-
While we are waiting for a reply on whether the PGDB are going to look at a potentially very dangerous install, lets have a look at the apology that they issued over 2 years after my hearing where, in their own words, the letters sent to all the other sites of my charges, could have given the impression I was acting illegally in other parts of the country.
Which in my opinion prejudiced every single site (ALL 6) of my 44 trumped up charges, but they waited 3 and half years to apologise, the untrue letters were sent in Oct 2009, my hearing was in May 2011 and the apology came out April 2013....my business was already totally shut down by the Motueka High School letter. Motueka was my main place of business. How can you get 44 charges out of just 6 sites (7 including the exploding chip shop).....well they had back up charges if I could answer the initial charges.....
They changed the charges just weeks before the hearing.....I answered them too.....
I might add the apology says Nelson.....well not just in Nelson, they even got that wrong, because it was from Haverlock to the West Coast AND Nelson....even the local High school in Motueka which was the main centre of business of my business....basically the far reaches of my business and everything in between.....
In my book an untruth, in such circumstances........well I'll let you all think what that is.....
Of note the guy who signed the apology.......was on my panel for my hearing and witnessed everything.....
I stall get asked, quite regularly, oh your the guy who blew up the chipshop......then I tell them the story and they are aghast......surely that doesn't happen here.......well yes it f****ing does......
Over the last 7 soon 8 years I have worked from place to place, like a fugitive, working to feed my family.....out of trade sometimes, mostly away from home, can't sell my home because its not finished, you know the place my missis had to live in for 14 weeks in a winter.....in a caravan(because the house was derelict), with no running water or a flushing toilet.
Why?......I think because I tried to warn about the dodgy certs covering dangerous work, then everything I had warned about came to pass in the worst possible way.....
.
Is it wrong for me to want my life back?
.
.
-
The charge at the Mot High, you'll see from the letter that it was for not providing enough ventilation on a cylinder enclosure.......well that's because it was added to my install AFTER I had finished and not by me......
Can everyone see a common thread here altering my installs after I finish, just like the exploding chippy......
The prepared statement, prepared by the investigators lawyer for this lady to sign .......well the lady said she would never have signed it if she had seen the aerial photo that I found at the council offices.....she was adamant that I was guilty, until she saw this undeniable proof.......its funny the effect an untruth letter can have on people with regards to prejudicing there opinions of people.
-
You think things have changed since this......well when this was going on Graham Hardy (at both my hearings, impartiality and actual hearing) and Peter Jackson (at my impartiality hearing), well these two who witnessed most if not everything that happened......
Well back then they weren't the vice chair and chair of the PGDB......BUT THEY ARE NOW.....after standing back and witnessing all this corruption levelled at me and my family......they got f****ing promoted.......
-
.....the excerpt from my hearing's transcript, attached again for your convenience, below in blue.....the 127 photos mentioned are the ones taken of the site of the explosion immediately taken within a very short time of the explosion (I think the day after).....
I had not seen any of the 110 other photos......
I had only seen the 17 provided by the investigator (Tony Hammond) and his lawyer (Mr Laurenson).....who had prepared the statement for the forensic "expert"(the one answering as "A" below....preparing statements as he had for most if not all the other "witness's".......he even called it "briefing" the witness.....
That's 110 withheld photos.......that showed what I had said from day one.......the pipe was lowered from its original position......the fryer supplied by the THIRD hose sold to supply just two fryers ( also see attached )......because it had split before......because the pipe was fitted low to the floor, my guess was so the bayonets could fit below the kick board space below the fryers, this lowering was most definitely not done by me....
Q. How many photos did you take of the scene?
A. Hold on a second. I took 127 photographs of the scene.
Q. And who selected these 17 photos pertaining to this?
A. I was asked to give comment on those 17 photos by Mr Laurenson.
Q. So you didn't select them, Mr Laurenson selected the photos that we're looking at?
A. That's correct.
Q. So the numbering on these I take it, this is not your writing?
A. The?
Q. The numbers on each of the photos?
A. No that's correct, that's not my writing.
Q. So that will explain why they're not sort of in a logical sequence, they're sort of all over the place?
A. It could do, yes.
Q. Now, did you write your own statement or was that written for you?
A. Which one?
Q. The one that you've just read?
A. The statement regarding the photographs was provided to me by Mr Laurenson and I edited it and it is based on my statement of the - that I provided on the 1st of May 2009, as well as phone conversations with Mr Laurenson.
So for the investigator to pick which photos he wanted to have comment on......well I think it is logical that he must have had the full itinerary of the photos take, from very near to the explosion date.......as he was interviewing me!
-
So while the investigator had in his possession the 127 photos that showed what I was saying.....
Well lets look at the words of the investigator......be saw cert 345138, this is for the last work done by Darnley at the exploding chip shop.....all available copies lack any registered/documented tests for leaks.......he says he saw the original, but the Board deny ever having receiving it, but there is an electronic copy on their now defunct electronic register....
Cert 345138 is actually mentioned in the DOL complaint.....this DOL complaint is the entire basis for the witch-hunt levelled at me by the PGDB.....
But lets let Mel tell you in her own words, these are what the PGDB told the chip-shop owners lawyer......while the poor bugger was laying in a burns unit.......
-
But lets let Mel tell you in her own words, these are what the PGDB told the chip-shop owners lawyer......while the poor bugger was laying in a burns unit.......the explosion was 9th April 2009.......so just eight days after....he spent weeks in the burns unit......nice people eh? I found this out 6 days after my hearing.....5th May 2011 was the last day of my corrupt kangaroo court......
From: Melanie Phillips [mailto:melanie@pgdb.co.nz]
Sent: Wednesday, 11 May 2011 4:13 p.m.
To: Paul & Emma Gee
Cc: Wal Gordon
Subject: RE: Paul Gee
Hi Paul
Please see attached Belinda’s file note of her request to John Darnley for a copy of certificate 345138. This occurred after she was contacted by lawyers acting for the owner on 17 April 2009 requesting copies of all gas certificates relating to 136 Milton Street.
Also attached is a copy of the certificate received which, as you will see, is of quite poor quality.
Please let me know if you need any more information.
Regards
Mel
From: Melanie Phillips[mailto:melanie@pgdb.co.nz]
Sent: Wednesday, 11 May 2011 3:22p.m.
To: Paul & Emma Gee; WalGordon
Subject: RE: Paul Gee
Hi Paul
I have just gone back through the file and can confirm that the Board never received a pink copy of certificate345138. The only copy the Board has is a photocopy of the certifier’s copy, which you produced as exhibit PG007 together with a copy of the gas suppliers copy.
I see notes from Belinda Greer on the file that the Board copy of certificate 345138 was received after the explosion in 2009, I think from the Department of Labour.
I’m sorry I can’t help you further.
Regards
Mel
-
.......and the present PGDB CEO.......well does he want to look at the dangerous central heating listed below?????
Well lets see how much has really changed, I will judge by his reply, which I will share with you all......
-
Belinda Greer.....this is the first person I would ask about my case, her name crops up a lot.....anyone got her number , I will give her a ring......
Here is a letter dated 2005, chippy blew up in 2009......its from Belinda......
And a letter from Nick Smith 2006......and another letter from Nick just weeks before my hearing.....but miraculously his opinion changed when he had his "good friend" on the PGDB.....(these were his words, when he sent for me to see him in his caravan, its amazing what you can record on these new fangled cell phones now).
You see I had been trying to get this looked for many years before an explosion nearly killed someone.....
-
here is something new, that I have literally just noticed....its crazy how if you look into this it just keeps on giving.
This is a Nelson Mail article, my business was already totally f****ed and shut down......but look at the time line on the bottom......the Dept of Labour issues a hazard alert, well before my hearing I have just seen this today.....WHAT THE ACTUAL f****!
Gasfitter cleared of blame over blast
KAREN GOODGER
Last updated 13:00 12/07/2011
A Takaka gasfitter has been cleared of industry charges relating to a near-fatal explosion at Nelson's Milton Street Fish and Chip shop, but the fallout continues.
Paul Gee has had to leave his family to obtain work outside the region as a result of the charges against him, and the Plumbers, Gasfitters and Drainlayers Federation is now calling for a Royal Commission of Inquiry into the industry's governing body.
The Plumbers, Gasfitters and Drainlayers Board yesterday cleared Mr Gee on 42 of the 44 particulars in the two charges brought against him for his work at seven properties in Nelson, Marlborough and Westport between May 2003 and June 2006.
The charges stemmed from an investigation into the Milton St explosion, but the board found that his work at this site was not contrary to regulations.
Mr Gee did not respond to calls from the Nelson Mail today but issued a statement saying the victory was bittersweet.
"I am happy that 42 of the 44 particulars of offence were not established, but I'm shattered it has cost me over two years of my life, my business, my reputation and now my chosen place of residence," he said.
"I have had to leave the Nelson area to get work to support my family. Being separated from my family is devastating for us all, but in particular my two young boys."
His advocate, North Island plumbing businessman and federation spokesman Wal Gordon, said Mr Gee had been working in New Plymouth for about two months.
"What Mr Gee and his family have endured is a sad indictment on the process imposed on the industry by the Plumbing, Gasfitting and Drainlaying Board," he said. "It displays an attitude of conquest by intimidation and force."
Although three people on the board vacated their positions yesterday, nothing would change with their replacements, he said.
The federation, representing 722 people, had started a petition for a Royal Commission of Inquiry, he said.
"It's off the back of everything the board's been doing. This [judgement] is just another cog in the wheel."
Mr Gordon said they were still seeking legal advice on whether to appeal the two particulars that Mr Gee was found guilty of. These related to his work at 6 Malvern Ave, Atawhai.
Penalties are yet to be decided.
The board did not respond to a request for comment before the Nelson Mail went to print today but said it would be releasing a statement this afternoon.
MILTON ST GAS EXPLOSION TIME LINE
April 2009 - An explosion at the Milton St Fish and Chip shop causes widespread damage and severely injures owner Ron Clark.
October 2009 - The shop reopens. It has since been bought by new owners.
February 2010 - The Department of Labour issues a Hazard Alert, saying the explosion was caused by a lack of appliance but that anomalies in the gasfitting certification could have alerted the owners to substandard workmanship.
November 2010 - Industry charges are laid against Takaka gasfitter Paul Gee.
May 2011 - The charges against Mr Gee are heard in Nelson.
July 2011 - The board finds Mr Gee not guilty on 42 of the 44 particulars in the charges against him.
- The Nelson Mail
-
So the whole entire basis for my witch hunt is a complaint laid by the Dept of Labour......
This same Gov't body issues a Hazard Alert......and then after this the PGDB lay charges against me.....
Even though you have seen how I tried to alert the PGDB to the problem with the certs, for many years before this explosion?
So the PGDB go after me?.......really? ???
-
Now have a look at the press release by the Board, where they say I referred to myself as a mere plumber, which they could never show me where I had said this.......
Now when you read the Nelson Mail article shown below dated 12/7/2011 you'd think I was innocent.....
But the PGDB's lust for my blood is shown in the press release dated on the same day.....
This mere plumber comment was never said by me, but lets let Mel tell you how they came about by this.....
From: Melanie Phillips [mailto:melanie@pgdb.co.nz]
Sent: 19 July 2011 12:38 p.m.
To: Wal Gordon
Subject: RE: Paul Gee
Hi Wal
I can’t speak for the Board however, I understood that the phrase was not so much attributable to Mr Gee but rather an encapsulation of comments made by Mr Gee at the hearing (such as those at pages 353, 359, 396, & 404 of the transcript).
Again, this is only my inference and should be in no way taken as speaking for the Board. I would suggest you raise this issue specifically in your penalty submissions should you wish the Board to address this matter formally.
Regards
Mel
Melanie Phillips
Legal Advisor
Plumbers, Gasfitters and Drainlayers Board
These comments she mentions are when I was trying to tell the Board that I was the employee, not the boss.....when it is read in context.....which the PGDB apparently can't don't do.....hmmmmm.
Of note this very very bad bad behaviour attributed to me by the PGDB in my last charge.......well some months later they told an elderly couple to close the window when using their califont, this califont was even nearer than the one I installed.
It was nothing short of character assassination.....which The Ombudsman has no problem with whatsoever.....
.
-
......if you open the attachment of the PGDB press release below, it has some of the correspondence with the Ombudsman too....if you scroll down.....
-
So they can't find some certs....then they can after I photograph the suppliers copies and send them to them......funny that.
-
Here's some of the photos.....most are missing the test results for gas leaks......just like the exploding chip shop....
And my personal favourite the one covered in twink (or tipex for the UK contingent).......
And I was the one investigated? Even after the Hazard Notice by the Dept of Labour.....for dodgy certs.......Really? ???
-
Anyone wonder why we have the utterly mental gas safety cert system that we work under now?
Where any new work doesn't need a cert registered anywhere except by the installer.....for him to pull out after an incident.......
It is because the PGDB made a total pigs ear of administrating the one cert system entrusted to them.....a total and utter cock up, a shambles......resulting in (before they totally lost control of the cert system) a disclaimer for accuracy and a Hazard Notice from the Dept of Labour.......
Now we got the crap one of today with more holes in it than my Nan's colander for draining her spuds......
Reckon they'll look after you? Give you a fair go?.......not if they can save their own skins and reputations.
.
-
You have seen the Dept of Labour complaint that lead the PGDB to appoint an investigation into the explosion......if not see attached.....
Now look at the "Hazard Notice" from DOL.......this is released......lets look at the time line in the press release.....
MILTON ST GAS EXPLOSION TIME LINE
April 2009 - An explosion at the Milton St Fish and Chip shop
February 2010 - The Department of Labour issues a Hazard Alert, saying the explosion was caused by a lack of appliance but that anomalies in the gasfitting certification could have alerted the owners to substandard workmanship.
November 2010 - Industry charges are laid against Takaka gasfitter Paul Gee.
May 2011 - The charges against Mr Gee are heard in Nelson.
July 2011 - The board finds Mr Gee not guilty on 42 of the 44 particulars in the charges against him.
If you read the only that's ONLY basis for the whole reason for pursuing me......the initial DOL complaint.....
Well I came forward on the day of the explosion and admitted doing the initial pipework......BUT NOT THE FRYERS. How did I know this on the day of the explosion?.....because I was telling the truth.
Bare in mind that I had no idea what caused the explosion.....I have seen a receipt (and so have the PGDB) for a third hose to supply just two fryers, sold after I left....see other posts.....installed after I left Allgas....
My initial pipe run was lowered as shown by some of the 110 with held photos....and the cause of the explosion, was the hose.....this is in the Hazard Alert, see attached....look at the date, just look at the f****ing date this was known.
Now bare in mind that the Hazard Alert has concerns over the cert system failing.......look at the date of that f****ing Hazard Alert, look at the time line......PGDB are Bastards, anyone involved in this needs to go.....a leopard never changes its spots, if you're corrupt, you're corrupt....now move on and f**** off.
Now I have loads of evidence to show who was responsible for this third hose, the ADDED hand writing on the installation paperwork for the fryers.....
I did absolutely nothing wrong and was cleared of 42 charges out of 44, with the Board ignoring a worse case than mine for the remaining charge......
If you help cover up corruption, you are by definition corrupt.......these people still lead our industry, that's OUR industry......it is wrong.
.
-
If DOL had concerns over the CERTS when they thought it was just the certs for this near fatal explosion......
They didn't know about the other certs shown below......so what concerns do they raise?
And the new fantasy cert system what the f**** does that raise?
This is our, OUR, industry.......they are f****ing it up, with out a doubt......and we are following them.......really?
I love these pictures, they speak volumes........this is YOUR industry, not a bunch of self serving vile corrupts......
-
Lets let the investigator Tony Hammond say in his own words what he thinks about changes to systems and the certifying....writing so very ironically March 2009, see info brief below, also check out the fat little face of Stephen Parker....the chair of my hearing, yes he is as pompous as he looks, they both are......
The Gas Regulations (REG 24) define, amongst others, that the
following require certification:
Extensions, additions and replacements to existing gas installations
Alterations that result in repositioning of pipework or changes to the
operation of the installation
It is worth noting that an installation is defined in the Gas Act as
“including a gas appliance”.
Therefore, replacement of one appliance by another, even if very
similar, requires certification.
Further weight is added to the argument when one considers that
even a “like for like” replacement needs to be adjusted to ensure
gas pressure and aeration are set appropriately, the connections are
gastightness and the safety devices operate at the right levels; that
is, the appliance needs to be commissioned in accordance with clause
1.6.7 of NZS 5261.
So lets look at the third hose.......look above for Tony's take on it and then look at the receipt that I took out of Tony's evidence.....lol
Then compare to the NON registration of the cert for the last work at the site of the explosion, what a tosser......
From: Melanie Phillips [mailto:melanie@pgdb.co.nz]
Sent: Wednesday, 11 May 2011 4:13 p.m.
To: Paul & Emma Gee
Cc: Wal Gordon
Subject: RE: Paul Gee
Hi Paul
Please see attached Belinda’s file note of her request to John Darnley for a copy of certificate 345138. This occurred after she was contacted by lawyers acting for the owner on 17 April 2009 requesting copies of all gas certificates relating to 136 Milton Street.
Also attached is a copy of the certificate received which, as you will see, is of quite poor quality.
Please let me know if you need any more information.
Regards
Mel
From: Melanie Phillips[mailto:melanie@pgdb.co.nz]
Sent: Wednesday, 11 May 2011 3:22p.m.
To: Paul & Emma Gee; WalGordon
Subject: RE: Paul Gee
Hi Paul
I have just gone back through the file and can confirm that the Board never received a pink copy of certificate345138. The only copy the Board has is a photocopy of the certifier’s copy, which you produced as exhibit PG007 together with a copy of the gas suppliers copy.
I see notes from Belinda Greer on the file that the Board copy of certificate 345138 was received after the explosion in 2009, I think from the Department of Labour.
I’m sorry I can’t help you further.
Regards
Mel
I did not know any of this when I went 42 out of 44 charges at the kangaroo court over seen by chubby Stephen Parker.....yes those cheeks are just as pinch and slappable in person, not in a violent way but in a chubby kids jowls way, cute really....especially the way his head seems to over flow his collar, perhaps that's why the blood can't get to his brain, tie's too tight.........
-
Sorry forgot to point out Tony's apparent hypocrisy was in a March 2009 Info Brief and the explosion was April 2009, you'd think he would have remembered what he wrote some weeks before.....
But then Tony's memory seems to be on its way out because he signed an affidavit to say he'd only met Darnley limited times, one of which was to grant his license after some oral and totally forgot to mention the photos of him at NZIGE meetings....with Darnley.....remember Darnley resigned from the NZIGE weeks after the explosion......
Tony Hammond and Stephen Parker reckon they have a limited relationship.....hmmmmm not buying that....remember Parker shut down my hearing as I was going to go 100% innocent......oh year Tony and Stephen are in the photos with Darnley
-
What's the legal term for signing a legal document and presenting it in a formal forum and it doesn't reflect the truth.... ::)
-
This attachment has a special meaning to me and is what started me looking into this....who/what ever made Darnley resign, I am eternally grateful to you......
Just a quick Google search on a Darnley pulled this little beauty up.......NZIGE newsletter...May 2009.....explosion April 2009......hmmmmmm
Also see the tabs on these attachments....most if not all of this has been shown, by me, to the Ombudsman...
You know the Office for "Fairness for All"....just not Paul.....
-
I don't know what is wrong with these people but remember Darnley, the guy who thinks its funny to roll a truck with tonnes of LPG on its back, attached again for your convenience, you know the guy also known as "Porn-Dad".....the same guy who today is being protected by the PGDB.....
Well these vile twats sent this sickening trial papers to my home, opened by my Wife, from memory there was this one attached PLEASE DO NOT OPEN IF CHILD SEXUAL ABUSE OFFENDS.....as it does my wife when she opened it.......and two others all three were of a sexual deviant nature one about a dentist touching up his patiens and another sexual abuse case......in a plumbing context?
I think this reflects on Porn-Dad and his mates who protect him........
I know what we do to nonces where I am from and it ain't counselling........
Which side do you want to be on.......corruption and other less desirable traits or the guy who warned about dodgy certs covering dangerous work for six years before an explosion nearly killed someone? Eh Martin Sawyers......which side mate, pick one cos I ain't going no where.......
Martin as I asked you in my last email to you ........"why would you risk your reputation for the likes of these people" and I use the term people very loosely......
.
.
.
-
How would you feel to loose your business, home and reputation, along with your wife being terrorised by these filthy bastards.....working away from home off and on since the hearing back in 2011......
But the new guard, Martin sawyers et al, thinks all this is ok and I should move on......
Give me my life back and nothing would make me happier.....
-
Sent four days ago, today being the 13th Feb 2017......I have still had no reply from Martin Sawyers....the "new" CEO of the Plumber's Board.....
I am not really expecting one, but and I ask you this in all honesty, wouldn't you answer this.....
If my accusations are not true you would answer and tell me so, but if they are true (and they are) then the options are to address the corruption that risks the safety of the NZ public OR try to brush it under the carpet.......what does that make the person who does this?
Surely to help conceal corruption, it corrupt in its self?
Paul Gee <plumbngas@gmail.com>
AttachmentsFeb 9 (4 days ago)
to Martin
Hi Martin,
Please can you tell me if the Board were aware or in the possession of this document attached, a Hazard Alert from DOL, if so when did the Board become aware of this document.
I would have thought that after making the initial complaint the Dept of Labour (attached for your convenience) would have kept the recipients of that complaint up to date with its own findings, please by means of an Official Information Act Request may I get a copy of all correspondence between the DOL and the PGDB pertaining to this event/explosion.
Just a friendly reminder, I am still awaiting your response for the potentially lethal central heating system, if you are to act or not.
FYI we enjoying a southerly icy blast today in this area and those Thermostatic Radiator Valves might be opening, releasing the contaminated stagnant water into the hot water system and potentially atomising the water to make it easier to inhale by the elderly occupant, this is a perfect storm for a fatality from legionnaires. Lets just hope the elderly occupant doesn't try to ward off the chill with a warm shower, this is a dice rolled by you and your predecessors every autumn/winter....just to protect Darnley....why is that?
Best regards Paul
Just heard on TV that NZ is 60,000 homes short of its requirements to house our population.......
That is, as things stand today, 60,000 homes where a gas "safety"certificate isn't required to be registered anywhere but the gasfitters house/office/box in garage.......
With unlimited available copies of authentic looking certificates available to anyone with a computer and a printer....none of which have the facility of a carbon copy to ensure nothing is added/subtracted from the info....hell you could just print off another because there is no sequential number across the top......they don't come in books now, they are not issued to people by the book with traceability and accountability....to the registered installer......basically any f****er can issue one until he is caught......
All this in a housing shortage......policed by a PGDB with a history tainted by my case, a case that is begging to be looked into for safety's sake.....but goes ignored....
The ambulance at the bottom of the cliff has been replaced with a hearse
OUR industry is in decline, headed toward issues that has a huge potential to hurt, maim and even kill.....and it appears we are tackling it with apathy and an ostrich mentality....she'll be right.......I think she is totally f****ed to be honest.....been there got the tee shirt.....
.
-
How are the powers that be auditing these new installs......how do they know where to go, what to look at?
Apart from people who have no idea and could down load these certs and not give a shit about the repercussions.....you know people would always put safety before profit ::)
What if you are well meaning but ill informed? you keep doing the same work but are totally unaware that it is or could be dangerous?
No inspectors, no auditors, no integrity, no leadership and no f****ing sense.....this is the hearse at the bottom of the cliff.....
OUR industry is about to go tits up, along with the income......do you really think people are going to continue to pay good money for a bad system?
Wake up guys, if this pans out as I believe it will and I have good reason to believe it will.....its over.
How can a Board expect to receive our respect and show integrity when it doesn't address blatant corruption and risks to the NZ public?
We went from a peer reviewed (usually by older very experienced inspectors), audited work with a traceable cert system issued only to certifying gasfitters......to a non audited, print off all you like cert system which is totally open to any one with a computer/printer.....
I hope you all enjoyed the high life, not waiting for an inspector to check over your work (which is never an issue if you know what you are doing.......
I will say it again, apart from obvious safety concerns... it is bad bloody business.......no one will pay good money for a broken, mis-managed, (non managed even) system.....led by people with no integrity....
The ITO isn't what it used to be, people are getting all the qualifications with no real knowledge, unaudited......
Did no one notice where that got Darnley in my case......a bloody explosion......
The gas company's living the dream today, selling gas with the same responsibility of selling ice-cream.....
Explosions/deaths caused by incompetent people and bad work.....makes people install electric, it is that simple......pull your head out of your anus and see the big picture......
ALL of this is bad for business.....never mind the ethical reasons for keeping your customers safe......
If you let yourself be led by muppets you get all you deserve.....I just feel sorry for the NZ public to be honest.
.
-
All done in the climate of a housing shortage of 60,000 homes......perfect storm for an incident........
-
Sent today
Paul Gee <plumbngas@gmail.com>
12:58 PM (0 minutes ago)
to Martin, Wal
Martin,
Please see link below, so that you are aware of my posts on the Plumbers forum, I feel it fair to let you know that this is where I have posted the inaction by the PGDB in not looking into the corruption surrounding and permeating through my case and in doing so protecting John Darnley at the very real risk to the NZ public.
I will also place this email on the same thread and your reply, if I receive one.....please can you write it as though you are talking to the industry as a whole, if you decide to ignore this email then I would put it to you that you are happy to ignore corruption and how it effects the industry.
http://www.plumbers.co.nz/forum/fellow-practitioners-update/41/fellow-practitioner-issue-236-dated-12-december-2014/1810/msg10677#msg10677
Yours so very sincerely Paul Gee
-
from the other post to keep it all in context....I said back in Dec 2014 that could post lots of evidence and go on and on.....and I will continue to do so.......
If we let the ones that lack integrity rule us we can never expect justice...........
And here in lies the problem.....those effecting/lobbying the people who are making the laws wanted control of the trade/business.....enter the craftsman license....
So they implemented the..."You can't run a business with out a craftsman license"......because (and this makes me laugh a lot)...we are worried that business are going out of business, not because of bad trade practice but business short comings........if you get the license, these are the people who actually put me out of business....real caring like....
But those implementing the craftsman status......well we are going to award ourselves full craftsman licenses and impose accountancy and business law and tax rules to the craftsman qualification.......making it very hard for those who are practically minded to achieve....
What happened next was a decline in competition (so it worked short term)..... but the resulting shortage of tradesman (a long term f**** up)......BUT the short minded self serving twats forgot* to factor in.................(*forgot , see couldn't care less, their pockets are full)
That with great power comes great responsibility.....and liability and fines etc.....
So now the business owners want people to work for them with the craftsman license....because, as with my case, you can royally screwed if anything happens....and you're in the craftsman/responsibility seat.....taking full responsibility for a multitude of people of varying levels of skill, or the lack there of.....
So now we are entering the stage of levels of supervision, to distance the CEO's from the work, al a Pyke River scenario......people are seeing that deregulation is a short term gain with massive short falls....you see Pyke River changed the game......that CEO in my opinion should do time, the poor families effected, just for trying to earn a crust is just terrible, my hart goes out to them, it is appalling they can't go get their sons, husbands brothers.......
But this has changed the game....
With ever more levels of "supervision" i.e. distancing yourself from responsibility.....added to ever decreasing numbers of craftsman level supervisors......well I can only think of one word.....
Clusterf**** springs to mind.....two giant bullet wounds in both feet.....they want all the business with none of the responsibility......to those reading this from the PGDB I ask you......with in the trades who are the worst at complying......those who think they are above the law or those who aren't as "connected".......hmmmmm, I wonder.
Well what I think will happen is they will further dumb down our industry and allow muppets to sign off for profit needs and housing shortage needs......basically to cover the work load and still fill their pockets.....
There is one easy answer.... but those driving this hearse of an industry will have to swallow their giant pride and admit they got it so very wrong......
Remove the craftsman status and make everyone responsible for their own work, overseen by well paid neutral inspectors......please before all the knowledge of the guys retiring is gone and we are left with the results of the last ten years of those in power f****ing up our industry and filling their pockets.
People who lobbied for the gas craftsman license represented those selling gas......the self servers who implemented it saw they could corner the market.....but guys your idea has resulted in a total decline in the industry, every time someone hears of an incident or poor gas performance or an explosion.....well they go electric or solar......basically anything but gas.......you're ill conceived plan isn't working.....and is going to decline, if not decline then achieve its full potential.....it is just plain bad business. Gas is an awesome energy product, but it is stored energy that not only deserves respect, but demands it.
My case could be used to sweep clean some of the dodgy bastards.....then once the tower of shite starts to crumble I can guarantee that those who fall, will never fall alone and will drag the other scum with them....
If you build on fear, back room deals and corruption you will ultimately fail......because you are made up of scared little people with no morals or backbone, who in the full light of public scrutiny will go up in a puff of smoke, like most other parasitic vampires......lurking in the dark like bogymen....
Sun light is the best disinfectant......
-
The other backlash to the shortage of tradesman......a flood of newbies......
Supply and demand......when these new guys have helped build the shortage of housing....what are they going to do?....well when we have a surplus of tradies wages go down....and today we can demand a bit more because of the shortage.....
If only we could all see the big picture....what's good for one side (employee's/employer's) today is bad for the other and vice versa tomorrow.....
If you want to grow something strong and durable you do it slow and steady with as little fluctuations of extremes as possible......those that over fill their pocket today rob the future.....
I thought it was for those that govern, to steady the ship.....not rob its hull.
I would be happy to address this in a public forum and discuss the corruption that appears to attempt to cover up a near fatal explosion in his back yard of Nelson and have him put his point of view forward, in front of the people who he appears to refuse to represent with regards to the risks inflicted upon his constituency, in front of that constituency.
Perhaps an opposition member could join us and we could all air our concerns at the Nelson Market.
Got until September to arrange, anyone want to hold the camera....
-
So as you can all see I can prove that I did nothing wrong, think about it.....even in a biased and weighted hearing I could prove 42 out of 44 trumped up charges were just that, totally trumped up...
My case, showed the massive ignored omitted information/altered certs/faults....even certs with twink on them and different colour inks showing what was added after signature.....basically the PGDB maladministration of the "safety" cert system entrusted to them, that resulted in the disclaimer of accuracy....
My case uncovered huge relationships and conflicts of interest....
Another fraud and manipulation of certs by yet another person, other than Darnley on the West coast.....
I was lied about and lied to.......
My family suffered massively because of this.......
So now the new guys just ignore me......I think that speaks volumes of what any one of you can expect to get.......blatantly f****ed over then ignored.....
What do you think will happen when, that's when.....the even bigger holes start to appear in our new joke of a system?
Will they put their hand up and say...oh we made a mistake.....we'll shoulder the blame for that one......
Or will they say .......righto, bend over lets see how far this goes in.......
This new crew, that I thought had some moral fibre......they are like a flock of geese......when the one at the front gets tired or totally f****s up....they just change the one at the front and keep flying the same pre-determined destination...... to their condo down south for the winter, all financed by us.....
Paul Gee <plumbngas@gmail.com>
Feb 14 (4 days ago)
to Martin
Martin,
Please can you do me the common courteously in confirming receipt of my recent emails. I have made requests under an OIA and so can expect an answer to my request within 20 working days.
I can assure you that my request is neither frivolous nor vexatious. As loosing my business, home and reputation to a corrupt process and hearing whilst my wife was terrorised is very serious. I would hope you would think so too.
A good ethical test of a situation is whether you can tell your wife and family what you have done and be proud and hold your head high, I have the full backing of mine.
Paul
Paul Gee <plumbngas@gmail.com>
Feb 13 (5 days ago)
to Martin
Martin,
Please see link below, so that you are aware of my posts on the Plumbers forum, I feel it fair to let you know that this is where I have posted the inaction by the PGDB in not looking into the corruption surrounding and permeating through my case and in doing so protecting John Darnley at the very real risk to the NZ public.
I will also place this email on the same thread and your reply, if I receive one.....please can you write it as though you are talking to the industry as a whole, if you decide to ignore this email then I would put it to you that you are happy to ignore corruption and how it effects the industry.
http://www.plumbers.co.nz/forum/fellow-practitioners-update/41/fellow-practitioner-issue-236-dated-12-december-2014/1810/msg10677#msg10677
Yours so very sincerely Paul Gee
-
I did not realise that corruption had a sell by date.....if I joined an organisation like this and saw the levels of corruption and ineptitude I would not want it swept under the carpet and help cover it up....I would air it for the sake of its diminishing integrity.....
For me, just in my opinion I would feel like a liar and a hypocrite every time I pontificated in public about safety and I certainly couldn't bring myself to say.....
“What consumers need to know is, a certifying gasfitter must provide a signed gasfitting certificate where restricted work has been carried out in this scenario. Consumers should stay safe and ask for a copy of this at the time of purchase or modifications – it is peace of mind that the gasfitting work has been conducted in a legal capacity”.
I would feel a fraud to utter this statement above in red, when I was in full knowledge of my case and the safety risks to the people of Nelson, all done by Darnley under the empowerment of the PGDB, and conveniently covered up by them to boot....a total and utter fraud, that's how it would make me feel personally.
But some people can just take it in their stride I suppose, ignoring the world that they are helping to establish for others....
-
So this is a synopsis of how dodgy the findings are against me, these are the findings Martin Sawyers won't talk to me about.....you take a look and go get the lube ready for when the utterly ludicrous cert system we work under now goes terribly wrong.....
I wrote this some time ago and have presented it to people in power......no one even the Ombudsman thinks my case needs looking at......good luck guys, you are about to run the gauntlet....
Paul Gee PGDB Disciplinary Hearing
Summary of Charges
You could be forgiven for thinking that the hearing and process I was subjected to was a fair and unbiased procedure, based solely on its outcome.
44 charges were laid and I answered 42 charges. Being found 95% innocent of any wrong doing is a very good result, but if this other 5% of charges were “up-held” (and were aided to be up-held by the investigators mate chairing the hearing, who then stopped the hearing just as we were questioning the investigator specifically about this very 5% of the charges). And it was all done as a last grasp at keeping a 100% conviction rate (openly boasted about by the PGDB), and done to save face and justify a $220 000.00 price tag, with still no one held accountable for a near fatal explosion….. Well it is reprehensible and a true reflection of the arrogance and the lows these people will stoop to protect their ego's, positions, salaries and reputations.
My business was already shutdown before the so called hearing by the totally untrue letters sent by the PGDB to all the sites of charges (except the explosion) that alluded that I was selling illegal certs in Northland and other upper North Island areas, places I have never even visited let alone sold certs of even carried out any work in. The PGDB have admitted these untrue letters could give the impression I was capable of selling illegal documents......rescinded/apologised for after the hearing and after my business was kaput.
Please before you read this summary of charges below, please read and bear in mind these points and then the 3 documents listed below and attached.
• Nearly 50% of the charges were amended at the last minute, application for amendments made on 1/2/11, the hearing on the 3/5/11, after over 2 years of investigation.
• Evidence, photos and notes were withheld and misrepresented.
• Huge conflicts of interest ignored and witnesses added just days out from hearing.
• Mr Bickers, who later became Board Chair (but resigned for personal reasons) was on the panel for my hearing and he witnessed what I am about to tell you about in these charges first hand. Of note Mr Bickers runs a course called the “Role of the Processional Witness”, specifically about a hearings procedure and its goal of achieving a proper and fair outcome.
Doc 1. Mr Bickers further sullying of my reputation in my local news paper, just days after the hearing. See attachment B1, (B1).
Doc 2. The so called “apology” from the Board, signed by Mr Bickers. This letter referred to in the apology, in my opinion, prejudiced all additional sites prior to my hearing, all sites other than the site of the explosion, with a very “un”- truth, implying that I was capable of acting in an unlawful manner. It was sent to areas spanning my whole business history, with the Mot high school, right in the middle, which I believe was no mistake.(B2).
Doc 3. All or at the very least 3 years of my work was audited, this is evidenced by the time gap in the investigation and also a letter from a Board lawyer and a comment on an MPs letter, but the investigator states only 10 % was audited. (B3 & 4)
See below for the Charges and how they were dis-proven. I ask you will this “justice” help our country, industry or protect the public. I kept my licenses, but lost my reputation, home and business, and now nearly 50% of licences are being uplifted for this year, almost half tradesman not bothering.
Please note, it is not an exhaustive list of proof and concerns, and I have tried to be brief.........
Milton Street chipshop.
1. This is the site of the explosion that started this whole affair. I proved that the initial install of pipe work had in all probability been altered along its entire length from how I had originally installed it. I installed a “pre-pipe” under instruction from my then boss John Darnley. All evidence for the person responsible for these alterations I believe pointing to Darnley or someone under his direction, but he was never asked about it.
2. The bayonets were lowered, as evidenced by the withheld photos showing screw holes of previous position and the pipe falling from the corner of the room to the position of the Bayonets which is contrary to all the other “audit” photos of my work. These withheld photos were taken by the forensic expert, these photos only became apparent to me at the hearing, but were available to the investigator very early on and reaffirmed what I had maintained for two years. Over 120 photos were taken with only about 11 made available.
3. I had completed my involvement with the installation on the 15th, as evidenced by the date of the leak test date (of note the 15 of this test date being in a different colour ink to the rest of the cert, and not in my hand), but the offending fryers were delivered on 24th . (B5 & 6)
4. There was a pizza oven installed half way along, one year later. The cert for the pizza oven being the one that wasn't registered by Darnley, as per the Board. This “pizza” cert lacked any information entered into the gas leak test field on all available copies (all copies available are totally in Darnley’s name). The Board were aware of this “non” registration, just 9 days after the explosion, well before receiving the DOL complaint that specifically mentions this cert by number. Of note there appears a copy of this cert on the PG&DB electronic register, a total impossibility if not registered. (B7 & 8)
5. Three hoses were sold for two fryers, the offending hose had split so near to completion of the job that it was part of the original invoicing. But when the owner told the investigator, he told him it didn't interest him, Mr Clark told me this. (B9)
6. The cylinder station/bottle bank had been altered to feed off both gas cylinders simultaneously, in all probability to accommodate the added extra load of the pizza oven. This is evidenced by the fittings sold and invoiced for in the initial billing and the different fittings present in the photo's taken just after the explosion.(B10 & 11)
7. Not one part of my initial install went unaltered, from the start at the cylinder station, the middle where the pizza oven was installed, to the end where the bayonets were lowered (not by me) with the fryers added (not by me) after my initial “pre pipe” job.
8. It appears to me that the bayonets were lowered to allow the fryers to sit further back to the wall, as the fryers have a cavity underneath, and this lowering and turning of the fitting was why the hoses failed after pinching against the floor. And probably would have been done when the fryers were installed, not by me. My involvement is also evidenced by the job card, showing no fryers, and with the words “install bayonets and test”, in my hand. (B12). The entry for the fryers on the front of this Job card, not in my hand, but same as the hand writing on the certificate . All this known to the investigator very early on when I told him in my voluntary interviews, in all probability when he had the withheld photos. This handwriting added, although denied by Darnley and ignored by the investigator....has been shown to be very probably Darnley's hand writing by the only handwriting expert in NZ.
9. The comment by the forensic expert that the sheath had been cut away from the hoses, again not by me.(B13) made at the time of the explosion.
10. Still to this day one has been held accountable for this explosion, with all, if not most, of this referenced evidence available to the investigator. (B14)
Main Rd, Havelock
1. Even though the investigator had said to me at interview that the site had been unaltered since my initial install of a fryer in 15th Jul 03,(the appliance at the focus of the charge), there were a further two certs issued for this site. Both these certs 629404 and 623527 were for work in the kitchen, with one dated 4th Sept and 29th Jan both in 09.
2. The audit being done on 3rd Sept 09 (C1). The cert date for 629404 was the day after the audit. The work signed off in this cert 629404 for 4th Sept is considerable and would not be done in a day and would involve moving all my work.
3. Of note the hand writing of the word “fryer” on this Allgas job sheet is identical to the word “fryer” on the Milton Allgas Job sheet and the appliance is drawn in, which isn’t drawn in the Milton St job sheet. Of note this would probably have been written by an office worker who passed out the work, but no one from the office was interviewed. (C 2, 3 &4)
4. The work in these certs, in all probability, would have involved moving my original install, but I was unable to check because all work had been removed when I had the gone there to check after I had the charges laid.
5. All this information of certified work would have been available to the investigator if he had done a cert check on the address, which I think he should have before making any comments about it being unchanged or pressing any charges. In all probability the work was either still in progress or very recently completed.
Greenwood St Motueka
1. I had installed the water heater and gas cylinder station, but the cooker was installed at a later date and added to the certificate, not by me. But in saying this, the kitchen wasn't there when the cooker was installed and the customer stated his friend had removed the restraining chain on the cooker (the basis for the original charges), when this was pointed out to the inspector he requested and was granted for the charges to be amended to focus on the pipe in the wall and not the clearances to the worktop and the absence of a restraining chain. (D1)
2. Then at the hearing the owner said on testifying, he remembered someone else coming back to fit the cooker. (D2)
3. The blue carbon copy shows a differing of pressure on the carbon sheet for the line written for the cooker and when taken into account the other certs with writing present on the pink master copy, but absent on the carbon copies and other alteration (all available to the Board prior and dismissed as vexatious by Kern Uren (D 3 & 4, also see H.B. 9), I believe the cooker was added after my initial install to both the site and the certificate.
4. Someone else at Allgas had no problem acting in my name, as evidenced in the letter issued in my name to alter a cert, 3 months after I had left (H.B.5), ironically this letter has “never seen this or authorised it”, written across the top of it in my hand writing, done when I became aware of it.
5. Basically if I was found not guilty of installing the cooker, who did? The Board did not pursue this either.
6. I was told, by Darnley, from day one to fill out a job sheet, the office staff would then take the info from the job sheet to fill out the certs, for me to then sign.
7. I was told by Darnley that they would file the copies and register with the Board. It was the biggest mistake of my career, if not my life. I trusted them to do what they had said. When I handed back the certs signed and with all 4 copies still together, the 3 carbon copies still attached to the master copy, with no handwriting of my own, only my signature, I had made the gravest judgment and regret it to this day. I believed the company would do as they said. From my time of leaving Darnley’s employment, I spent the next 6 years trying to warn about dodgy certs covering dodgy work, up until the explosion nearly killed someone.
8. I know of another contractor who had a similar experience, when he notified the Board, HE was audited!!!,
8 Ball Unit Motueka High School
1. Another set of charges amended just prior to the hearing. (D1) Amended to better fit after I had told the investigator that I did not know the cage was to be fitted, the cage that was fitted not allowing enough ventilation, which was the basis for these charges.
2. When the charge was amended to “I should have known it was to be fitted” because of the exposure to cars, I showed an aerial photograph that proved the car park had been altered considerably since the original install, which led to the witness, brought in just days out from the hearing, to exclaim that had she seen this aerial photo she would never had signed the statement. (E1).
3. This photo graph was obtained by me from the Tasman District Council and proved beyond doubt what I had told the investigator.
4. Of note the witness statement was prepared by the investigators lawyer after he had in his own words, briefed the witness, also of note is some of the other witnesses refused to sign their “own” statements.
Dommett St Westport
1. The letter from the owner reflects the attitude of the investigator, and is quite damning about the investigators behaviour. (F1)
2. But regardless of the window being secured, I still believe it to have been safe even with the window being open; the charges were for the clearance to the opening window to the flue of the water heater. (F 2, 3 &4)
Powick St Westport
1. This is one of the charges that concern me the most, other than the site of the explosion, not because of the persecution of my self.....but the total inaction after the hearing. (and yet another set of charges amended to better fit just before hearing)
2. I was charged with placing cylinders on a deck, as I was the last person there, which I was not.
3. This charge is quite complex, but can be boiled down to just one set of facts and invoices. Ignoring the reasoning offered by the investigator as it is nonsensical because the unit wasn't even manufactured when he says it was installed (as evidenced by the serial number on the side of the unit) and the original cert, not issued by myself.
4. The set of facts are born out by invoicing from the local Caltex who sold all the water heaters involved.(G1) 3 units, with only 2 being accounted for in the certs.
5. This invoicing shows that, initially, a 24 ltr model was sold and fitted on the 26/7/2001 as collaborated by the cert 207367 issued at that time (not by me) and this Caltex invoicing (G1 & 2)
6. But then 9/10/2001, some two months later, the 24ltr was returned and a 32 ltr sold, replacing the unit insitu, but with no other cert issued for this new 32 ltr unit.(G2)
7. Then further 24ltr unit sold 14/1/05, 6 months after my visit mentioned below, which corresponds to the serial number on the unit on site, but makes the first original cert for a 24ltr unit redundant, I believe this was when the gas cylinders were placed on the deck. (G1)
8. Now bear in mind that I was brought in only to relocate the 32ltr unit and not move any cylinders, on the 20/7/04 (6 months before the second unit was sold, mentioned in point 7 above), as is backed by my invoice, job sheet and cert 319000, marked as alteration only.(G3 & 4)
9. My concern is that, as with the explosion at Milton Street and the adding of a cooker at Greenwood St, no one has thought to pursue this potential fraud and find anyone accountable for this substandard work and manipulation of certs.
Malvern Ave, Nelson
1. This is the one and only site where charges were found to be substantiated; of note it is also the only site to where I freely admitted to all work and certification. The charges were for clearance to an opening window from a power flued water heater.
2. I believe this was the charge that they held on to just to keep their 100% conviction rate boasting rights and their attempt of justifying a $220 000.00 prosecution cost.
3. I drew a diagram of how I knew the fumes to act, blown away from the building some 3 metres before rising (H 1)
4. Please see also available at the hearing –
• My 2 x diagrams from the Hearing (H 1).
• Photo of the “offending” heater (H 2)
• Rinnai Doc (H3)
• Statement of owner, saying no fumes entering the building (H4)
• Hammonds comment if the fumes were not entering it was safe(H5)
• Contradictory nature of table 16, with amendments. (H6)
• Numerous statements from NZ 5261, stating the use of overseas regs and the non mandatory and mandatory sections.(H7)
And since the hearing….. None of which was allowed to be adduced at high court (although the Investigator applied and was allowed to adduce a document giving weight to the Board’s “expertise”), I was restricted by Board policy, but this below further proves it was safe-
• British Standard, known to me but not mentioned at my hearing (H8)
• Hardy’s British history, being the only certifying gasfitter at my hearing and on the panel for the Board at my hearing (H9)
• Email from co-author of NZ 5261 (H10)
• Emails of explanation of other gasfitters. (H11)
• Email from the owner, after my hearing. (H12)
1. If it is safe, it is safe and I still, to this day, believe this job was safe, I offered far more proof of this safe operation at the hearing, the only evidence offered by the investigator was the amended table 16 from NZ5261, which is contradictory in application, re- spa blowers and amendments.
2. NZ5261 was co-authored by the investigator, and he would in all probability, not want it to fail.
3. If this charge had not been held to have substance then I would have been 100% innocent. I think it wrong that you are guilty until proven innocent.
The PGDB later ignored a unit fitted even closer than mine and issuing in to a more enclosed area, the elderly couple who were very stressed about the smells they were getting in their home (a bathroom by the look of the photos I have seen).....and had actually complained were told to close the window when they use it....
As well as the 3 points I asked you to read above before reading the charges, points 3.1 to 3.3 under heading “Summary of Charges”, please also bear in mind-
• I did an “assessment” and not the, proscribed by the Board, “course of instruction” as my punishment and I was found to be in the top 10% ever assessed by the Board appointed assessor. Out of principle I did this with no preparation, revision or study.
• I had also for 6 years before the explosion warned about dodgy work being covered by dodgy certs.....warning against none other than Darnley, the man who was empowered by the “impartial” investigator, Tony Hammond, after just one oral exam, years before the explosion and with Darnley never sitting a plumbing, never mind gas fitting apprenticeship.
• It was Hammond who was appointed impartial investigator to attend a hearing overseen by his very well known colleague Stephen Parker Executive Director of GANZ, who he presented seminars with under the GANZ banner, Hammond playing as a technical adviser to Stephen Parkers as a top executive of GANZ. Hammond being nominated by GANZ to co-author NZ5261 and organising the Kennedy Trust together with Stephen Parker for many years.
• Hammond AND Parker being appointed AFTER my protests to Hammond’s impartiality at a stay of proceedings hearing. The old excuse, that a small plumbing community is bound to have people who know each other…..which is an insult to capabilities of the other 6 million kiwis.
• I have been told that Darnley was a member of numerous gas industry groups, as is Hammond and Parker. Darnley, Parker and Hammond are members of NZIGE, Darnley “resigning” just weeks after the explosion.
• Hammond having a very long history in NZIGE, which is an arm of IPENZ, and he also previously served on the PG&D Board for 15 years.
• Mr Bickers has a long history in IPENZ. These long histories of both men are similar in length of time and the standing/position achieved in their respective Institute in that time as members.
The worst part about this, apart from the very destructive and stressful effects on my family, it emboldens those with “contacts” to thumb their nose at the safety and responsibility entrusted them.
This will not help the industry or protect the public going forward.
And now we have the ' anyone can print off all you want certs, with no new installs being registered anywhere" system...........sadly we haven't even seen the tip of this ice burg yet..............This is the one we are leaving our kids FFS.
I ask you again, do you think these people will admit any wrong doing if YOUR arse is on the line?
Please don't think that a lack of evidence is any protection to you....(only the PGDB can withhold evidence to protect them selves).....so "not being able to locate a cert" will not save you....again, "not being able to find a cert" (even if it appears on their electronic register) only protects the PGDB......
On top of all this........it is the NZ public who are at risk......and when, that's when it goes wrong it will be the fitter who carries the can and the blame and you could lose your home/business /reputation being forced to work away from your kids and wife.... perhaps even have your wife terrorised with child sexual abuse case notes(as was my wife)....I was lucky my missis stayed by me, god knows why, but she did.....
Good luck guys.......you are most definitely going to need it.........
Corruption is corruption is corruption....to ignore it taints you, to cover it up (in my opinion) makes you complicit in that corruption and gives a very good indication of what you will do in the future faced to similar circumstances....So MARTIN SAWYERS what are you going to do about this.....
.
-
Sent today......to Martin Sawyers PGDB CEO......with nearly 50 thousand reads, on a plumbers forum I think we can say it is public and within the industry's view.....he ignores us and the corruption apparently done by the PGDB......wouldn't you as CEO address this.....
I am a big guy and make for a real trip hazard under a carpet, so I will not be brushed under one.....I will say it again....
I ain't going any where and will only up the anti leading into the up coming elections....Martin you can fix this today......give me a ring you got my number....
How does that make you guys feel and what does it bode for our future?
Paul Gee <plumbngas@gmail.com>
Attachments10:25 AM (0 minutes ago)
to Martin, Wal
Martin,
Please see a post attached and available on the plumber forum link below-
http://www.plumbers.co.nz/forum/fellow-practitioners-update/41/fellow-practitioner-issue-236-dated-12-december-2014/1810/msg10697#msg10697
Martin, my case that you appear to ignore needs addressing for the sake of the industry. I am about to engage a lawyer to address this and need from you to whom I contact at the PGDB or at your insurance company.
I want to ensure that you are totally aware of my case. I ask you to read this attachment and direct you to the reams of information available at the PGDB of how I was undoubtedly set up as a scapegoat to protect the PGDB's maladministration of the certificate system and the flippant issuing of gas licenses to those who are connected and are still this day protected by the PGDB.
You said to me in person that "I was only after money".....I feel I must correct you there......what I want is to put my sons through university, I want my wife to live in a nice home and I want to hand down a viable business to my sons. As I had all this before the PGDB set me up and carried out/witnessed a witch-hunt against me family, all I am asking is for the PGDB to put me back to where I was before the corrupt process destroyed my life.
Martin, I was mortgage free in a recently totally renovated home, I had zero debt (except my materials account), with a viable business and a very good reputation in the gas industry as well as locally with my customers. All I want is to go back to where I was before I was levelled by corruption.
Again I will post this on the same Plumbers Forum and say to you that you are publically, in the face of the industry, ignoring corruption and protecting the real person who nearly killed someone by altering gas work that resulted in an explosion, if any of this is true (and I have good reason to believe it is) this could make you appear as a pontificating hypocrite every time you do a press release as below in red.
“What consumers need to know is, a certifying gasfitter must provide a signed gasfitting certificate where restricted work has been carried out in this scenario. Consumers should stay safe and ask for a copy of this at the time of purchase or modifications – it is peace of mind that the gasfitting work has been conducted in a legal capacity”.
I ask you in all honesty and with integrity to apply this to my case. I understand none of my case is down to your "watch", but the PGDB is a continuous membership Board that has recently celebrated 100 years of being, not its 100th incarnation. It is down to the present day members to leave there mark, what will your legacy be, to cover up corruption or address it, fix it and make sure it doesn't happen again?
Paul
-
I think Martins response, or lack there of, can give you all a good indication of how you and the NZ public are being protected and/or represented by the PGDB and its cronies....
As I said before guys I wish you all the luck in the world, you are most definitely going to needs a lot of it....
Imagine this you have done a job, issued your print off all you like certs, gave one "copy" (which it isn't any more as we have lost the carbon copy) to you customer and you put one "copy" in your shoe box in the garage.....
You lose your copy, or your lap top fails.....the customer gets a guy into fix a small section of pipe, a part of installation which you haven't photographed.....
It explodes, your name is involved...perhaps the last guy to work at the explosion is more connected than you are.......
Now where do you want this case inserted? will your missis stay if you lose your house? are you willing to work away for the foreseeable future while fighting a witch hunt? do you want to raise your kids over the phone? are you prepared to be "the guy who installs explosions?.....think I am exaggerating? been there got the full wardrobe.....
.
-
And people wonder why the numbers of certifying gasfitters uplifting their license is in free fall......duhh....
Here's why....the certifiers with even a tiny bit of sense can see you are up for a massive amount of responsibility/accountability....you can not guarantee you will be the only person to work on your installs and if it goes wrong you are f****ed....
If you run a business and sign off other fitters.....f**** me you need your head read....just read the supervision parameters....you got to weigh up the guys ability and even mood, then organise your time and work load around this......and here is the clincher.....you got to get this right 110% of the time because if it goes bang......you are as f****ed as though you had installed it yourself.....
Then you got the guys who are in the middle, protecting the business owners, you get paid an extra dollar or two and hour, get to walk around like he's top of the heap because he signs every one off.....you are a muppet mate...ask your self, you are stuck between your boss and the PGDB.....you are royally f****ed...
I hope you all inspect every inch of install, you organise your guys weighing up ability, experience and mood against work load....because we all know the work coming in will be balanced across your team, one easy job for numb nuts and two mediocre jobs for your middle of the field guys and only one complex job for your top of the range tech......what I have noticed is numb nuts goes every where..... because the work don't play fair...
In this climate, in this industry, in this work load......if you sign anything off, in my opinion you are nuts....
Even if you do all your own gas, and you only sign off your self......how do you make sure it stays as you left it?
Gas company's should also be concerned, as numbers drop so do the profit, not to mention the quality, I will say it again the public will go electric with every incident....wake up.
.
-
Badger I agree that anyone who signs off someone else's work is crazy. You couldn't pay enough money to someone to take this level of responsibility on wages unless you could go inch by inch over the whole job. What's worse is we have certifying gasfitters out there who are "selling" their ticket to guys in business who are not certifiers but are doing the work and the connections.
The only thing you can do to ensure that the job as you left it is what is certified is to take photos of the installation. This is the best we can do to provide evidence of how we left the job. We load these up into the job management systems and they stay there, cloud based, for all time. It isn't fool proof but it offers some form of evidence that could be viewed if the installation is changed - and we always take a photo of the badge plate and put the serial number on the gas certificate that way if the appliance is changed out. We do a lot of these things now because of what happened to you - and although this is no consolation to you - I am sure a lot of gasfitters will have had a long hard look at how they do things and how they would protect themselves if they were accused of something. Your case has provided a blue print for that.
-
Jax mate and I truly mean this I am glad if my case can be used to help....its basically a "how not to" guide for dealing with incidents.....
WRT the dickheads signing others off.....mental really....
But this is the problem.....you will always have some people who will always put profit over safety, especially their own profit over other peoples safety......this is a constant.
That is why we need a robust system and it is why it is a necessity to go after the real culprit in the explosion and the actual dodgy people who sat by and watched this happen, the PGDB present chair and deputy chair watch this all go down.....do you think we have an integral system with them at the helm.....I don't believe you have. Jackson and Hardie were at some or all of my hearings and couldn't be bothered to stand up and cry rat.....we should ask them why? or were they too busy nibbling cheese and filling their bellies?
We, the NZ public included, need a robust system administered with integrity and no bias.....basically one we can all trust in....with this giant lump of my case under the office carpet you can't have trust.
Unless the PGDB put their hand up, pull all the actual guilty out in the open, then run a fair trial into their corrupt actions to act as a deterrent to anyone in the future who considers doing this to some one else......then I don't think we have a system we can trust in.....ever.
Otherwise all we have learnt is how not to carry out a trial, not how to, unless the massive mistakes in my hearings are addressed and taken ownership of we have learnt nothing about how to run a trial with no accountability where the people presiding over it can shaft people with impunity......this is wrong.
If the state of affairs had got better after my case I could understand them wanting to keep going like nothing happened, it has gotten gradually much worse since.....just look at the mess of a cert system that we work under today......
60 thousand houses short in a housing shortage....that's 60,000 houses that potentially will require gas......
60,000 homes with gas installed where, apparently could be installed by muppets buying certs off other muppets.....who don't need to register those bought certs anywhere but at home.....remember the ones mentioned above putting profit over safety....hmmmmm....
What moral fibre do you think these sellers of certs will have in an explosion? Perhaps Martin Sawyers et al can explain this to all those effected by carbon monoxide or an explosion next time.....hopefully its not a chip shop with lots of kids queuing up outside, as was the case at the site of the one at Milton Street explosion if it had exploded just one hour earlier...... :o
I don't know how these people sleep.....oh wait there it is in silken sheet and expensive houses....that probably takes the edge off......twats.
.
-
The Gas Certificate system as it operates now is simply inept. We have less quality control than we have ever had. There appears to be no audit system under Energy Safety of the gas certificates at all. ANYONE can produce a certificate as there is no barrier to entry. What I mean by this is any member of the public, whether licensed or just Joe Smith can download a gas certificate and fill it in. In the old days at least you couldn't even get access to a blank certificate unless you were a currently licensed certifying gasfitter.
The decision to take the gas certificates away from the PGDB and give them to ESS to be consistent with electricians was an MBIE/Government decision and one that appears to be far from sensible. There is little if any monitoring. Gasfitters themselves still do not appear to understand the difference between low, general and high risk certificates. Some are certifying everthing (something I favour as it appears to minimise the risk of getting it wrong), some still think you don't have to certify like for like (you do need to), some thinking new gasfitting is high risk but additions are general (wrong - it's the other way around) - the necessity to enter things on the high risk data base (in a slightly different format to the actual certificate - again another moronic thing). Why you simply can't upload the actual certificate is beyond me.
This current system affords the public no safety - in fact I think it opens the whole system up to more corruption - it increases the ability of those that want to rort the system and makes them even less traceable.
I agree there should be one robust system administered with integrity and no bias - one with a random auditing system - and with barriers to entry (either licensed or certifying). One which doe snot unduly load up heavy administration on the tradesman too. One thing I can say is that Energy Safety is not the entity that should be looking after it. They are in fact simply a vault where all this is kept with no one looking over it at all.
-
So they, the powers that be, learnt nothing from my case.....when my case highlighted the totally inept administration of the cert system by the PGDB, they just moved it somewhere else where it is just not administered, just stored.
My case showed that the PGDB misplaced lots of certs, one that even appear on their electronic register, the max the muppet stated in a 33 pg report that the only evidence that the cert for the last work at an explosion, was that there is a copy on the electronic register, even had a date of entry, but that's it......do you need any other evidence?.....but they pontificated to me about the importance of the certs and how I kept copies.....apparently one rule for us and one rule for them......
More like .....one rule for them..... and one rule for us.......then no f****ing rules for Paul Gee
I say this because it was a directed assault on me, just me......
What about the offences that were highlighted by my case, if they were bad enough to lay a charge but it wasn't me......then were are the prosecutions against these other jobs, what about the fraud at Powick Street, see my other post below.
Why did they spend 220k chasing me and 30k "chasing" Darnley.....who faced a charge for the explosion but it disappeared.
Why didn't Peter Jackson and Graham Hardy go after the fraudster on the west coast, these are the present chair and vice chair, the present team Martin Sawyers and the investigation manager won't even talk to me about these past offences, why is that?
Surely an offence is an offence......you think things have changed?......I KNOW it hasn't......
We got the same type of people at the Board who are policing the cert system remotely, a system as bad as the system described by Jaxcat below......
I feel for you guys just trying to earn a crust and having this on your back, it must be terrible....I have run that gauntlet and come out the other side, lost a lot including my trade......
What are you prepared to lose guys.....
.
.
-
Even by the PGDB own reckoning 44 charges were laid against me.....I proved it was not me on 42 charges.....
The offences are still out there today for 42 charges.....not altered and not prosecuted.....
I asked what was done at the Powick St one mentioned below I have a letter stating that the only contact with the people at this address is the letter they received telling untruths about me, that I was issuing illegal certs in Northland, you know the letter that they had to apologise for.....this was sent well before the hearing.....those cylinders are still mounted on the deck and the cert fraud that placed them there goes un-investigated....
Read through my summary of charges listed here, by address in my previous posts.....all those offences that were "of grave concern" went totally un-investigated or chased up by the PGDB......bad enough to chase me for, but just not bad enough to pursue after my hearing.....the PGDB know about this (in their own words) dangerous work.....but do nothing Martin Sawyers won't even discuss it with me, nor the new investigator.
Wonder how you get 44 charges out of 7 sites.....they had back up charges of differing levels or seriousness so that if I answered one set they could go after me with the other set......these charges were amended, or changed in plain speak, just weeks out from a hearing, after a two year investigation......half of them were altered, and a witness added just weeks out......
The ventilation problem at a high school for the gas cylinders........nothing done, because they couldn't get me for it......
And this still stands today.......new people same old direction......
All that dangerous work, 42 charges worth, nothing done........and my only charge that they made sure stuck..........
The PGDB told an elderly couple to just shut the window when they used the califont.....it was nearer than mine and the owners had complained.......
Oh and the califont that they did me for, the 2 charges out of 44.....still there.....as I installed it.......
All of this dangerous work.....its still there.....nothing done but chasing me........
COULD BE ANYONE OF YOU NEXT........
Do you think this moronic cert system will be shown for what it is.......or will they try to blame the tradesman?
I KNOW the answer........
.
-
Hi guys, Badger its started already, this from B/Crack today, cheers
…
New oven
Stove / Oven — Halswell, Christchurch
Remove gas hobs so that I can get electric cook top
-
Luckily Robbo mate......
As the industry is in such good hands with robust systems.....
Who ever does this work can't make it look legit by being able to print off a professional looking cert and the customer can check if its actually legit by looking it up on the cert register.........
Oh wait the f**** there.....
Can you believe I can seriously write such drivel.....and it is true......
By the way....just had a letter from Martin Sawyers stating he can't look at my case because the "PGDB have already dealt with my case"......
By "dealt" I suppose he means that 42 charges go un-investigated and no-one is held responsible for a near fatal explosion and a certificate fraud goes unanswered........what a crock.....
Now I am a just a MERE PLUMBER (there you go now PGDB I have actually said it) but to me that isn't dealt with......I go no law degree like Mr Sawyers but just in my fair minded layman's terms that is total bullshit and even may I suggest utter bollox........
For me guys...... if your full of shit, then your full of shit........to the brim by the look of it.....
-
Lets see what comes of this little doosey.......
I am going to run a book on it, any one fancy a wager, a sweepstake, my 5 bucks is on an excuse not to produce it because I am being vexatious....(a new word to me, I have learnt so much from these guys, I thank them for that).
Come on guys make a call, put your 5 bucks in and post what you reckon his response will be.....
Registrar <Registrar@pgdb.co.nz>
11:29 AM (5 hours ago)
to me
Dear Mr Gee
This email acknowledges receipt of your request of 9 February 2017 under the Official Information Act for a copy of all correspondence between the Department of Labour and the Plumbers, Gasfitters and Drainlayers Board about the gas explosion at the Milton Street Fish and Chip Café.
Unless an extension of time is required under section 15A of the Official Information Act, a response to your request is due by 9 March 2017.
Martin Sawyers
Chief Executive/Registrar
Plumbers, Gasfitters and Drainlayers Board
-
My reply to Martins response to my OIA request.......what a f****ing joke......oh I have dropped my integrity can some one help me find it.........
Paul Gee <plumbngas@gmail.com>
5:59 PM (0 minutes ago)
to Jayson, Registrar, Wal
Thank you Martin,
Please while you are at it can you explain to me how on earth the PGDB have "dealt" with my case........ you see the 42 charges I was proven not to be responsible for and the explosion go unaddressed and un-investigated with no one held accountable, whatsoever, with the (according to none other than the PGDB) "dangerous work" still in place some many years later.
And lets not forget the certificate manipulation, even perhaps fraud, unearthed at Powick Street, how were all the above "dealt" with.
It has not, in my mind as a fair minded lay person, been dealt with in any way other than if you take "dealt" as meaning tried to pin on Paul Gee.
Those places of 44 charges were so dangerous as to level charges at me, un-yet apparently safe enough to leave as is and not go look for the real culprit in 42 charges, an apparent fraud and an explosion......
It has not been dealt with in anyway, please can you stop urinating up my shin and whilst attempting to inform me there is heavy precipitation, so to speak. It is sheer male bovine faecal matter.
It is nothing short of laughable, any one who says this has been dealt with lacks any sense of justice or integrity. In my opinion.
Paul
-
This PGD Board who Martin claims to have "dealt" with my case.....(since when was it "my" case?, think about it when did I get to own this case, surely it is the case of the Milton Street explosion eh?)....
So Martin ......This is the same Board who decided the best person to investigate was the same person who lobbied for self certification and gifted Darnley his license....you know Darnley who all the evidence points to....for the explosion....but the charge disappeared before his hearing.....f**** off mate, f**** right off....
Tony Hammond.....protecting the now failed cert system.....sorry Tony you didn't do a good job protecting your self certifying system, nor your reputation in granting Darnley his full ticket, your legacy is a total cluster-f**** up...hahahaha love that one........tool!!!!!!! ;D
So Martin......is this Board you talk of, the same Board who thought Stephen Parker was the best guy to chair the hearing, with his mate as the investigator Tony Hammond as the impartial investigator......the same Parker who shut down the hearing as we were cross-examining Tony......for me to go 100% innocent......what a pair these are.....
Sorry Martin "my case" has NEVER been "dealt" with......ever....slanted, biased and set up yes definitely.....but never "dealt" with........with all due respect (zero).....f**** off.....
And when you consider that 95% of the charges are still go un-addressed, same as the explosion and the cert manipulation at Powick Street.........well do anyone think it has been dealt with?......do me a favour....
Or the central heating system that is going to kill....you know the stagnant water in the c/h rads, held there by TRV's that will open in winter and allow the water to be atomised through the shower.....this has never been dealt with......covered up yes , dealt with no.....
Or the loosing of gas certs by the PGDB (one at the site of an explosion) , the accepting of incomplete certs by the PGDB, the flippant issuing of certifying licenses to their mates by the PGDB....the accuracy disclaimer (LOL).........and it is US who need to show the card....where is their card?....f****in inept....
There are many many issues that go totally UN-DEALT with by the PGDB, the minister, nor the government......talk about full of shit..........their cups runneth over....
It is a joke......ON US..... hope you enjoy paying for those licenses.....where's their licenses??
.
-
I have guided the PGDB to this thread many times, more than I have posted......I know they watch this....
Martin mate.....if anything I have publically said is untrue.......where's my lawyer's letter....where is my day in court?....they know I would turn up.....
See they won't take me to court because it ain't slander if it is true.....its called truth, they may need to look that up.....so you could argue that they know they are dodgy......
Right is might...............
-
Now as a little interlude to proceedings lets have a look at Marty, ten to two, Jackson and Graham, oh that's another fine mess you got me into Hardy....
An a couple of that fat mouthy Welsh Bastard.....me
If we ain't got humour, we got feck all......
-
Sorry its only fair that Marty ten to two has the same exposure....
Imagine as this photo next to a smug "Info brief" caption.....
"Dodgy unsafe work ignored......we are happy that we have managed to ignore some very unsafe work....blah blah f****erty blah"
-
I love this definition in an on-line dictionary, not a fancy Oxford one, but just a run of the mill online dictionary.
its about con-spir-a-cy.........
[kuh n-spir-uh-see]
Spell Syllables
Synonyms
Examples
Word Origin
See more synonyms on Thesaurus.com
noun, plural conspiracies.
1.
the act of conspiring.
2.
an evil, unlawful, treacherous, or surreptitious plan formulated in secret by two or more persons; plot.
3.
a combination of persons for a secret, unlawful, or evil purpose:
He joined the conspiracy to overthrow the government.
4.
Law. an agreement by two or more persons to commit a crime, fraud, or other wrongful act.
5.
any concurrence in action; combination in bringing about a given result.
Origin of conspiracy Expand
Middle English
Anglo-French
1325-1375
1325-75; Middle English conspiracie, probably < Anglo-French; see conspire, -acy; replacing Middle English conspiracioun; see conspiration
Related forms Expand
conspirative, adjective
conspiratorial
[kuh n-spir-uh-tawr-ee-uh l, -tohr-] (Show IPA), conspiratory, adjective
conspiratorially, adverb
nonconspiratorial, adjective
preconspiracy, noun, plural preconspiracies.
Synonyms Expand
See more synonyms on Thesaurus.com
1. collusion, sedition. 2. Conspiracy, plot, intrigue, cabal all refer to surreptitious or covert schemes to accomplish some end, most often an evil one. A conspiracy usually involves a group entering into a secret agreement to achieve some illicit or harmful objective: a vicious conspiracy to control prices.A plot is a carefully planned secret scheme, usually by a small number of persons, to secure sinister ends: a plot to seize control of a company.An intrigue usually involves duplicity and deceit aimed at achieving either personal advantage or criminal or treasonous objectives: the petty intrigues of civil servants. Cabal refers either to a plan by a small group of highly-placed persons to overthrow or control a government, or to the group of persons themselves: a cabal of powerful lawmakers.
Dictionary.com Unabridged
Based on the Random House Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2017.
Cite This Source
I got a theory about all of this..................
.
-
Graham Hardy was the only certifying gas fitter on my hearings panel....and he is British.....
I had placed a Bosch califont 560mm below a window, I had a tech note for a Rinnai 26 and 32 (of much greater MJ ) and I knew of the British Standard below attached.....
I didn't mention this Standard because I have seen the backlash of saying this is how we do it in the UK.....
I drew diagrams how the fumes would have behaved and had a statement from the owner see attached....see attached and compare to the smoke bomb.....I was right
Mandatory Part one the code says the fumes must not go in the window....the fumes didn't...and it was fitted below a open plan dining room with living room and kitchen adjacent......compare to the unit below*
So the PGDB enforced a NON mandatory part 2 of the code......
This is the only charge they had on me......all this dangerous work, as far as I know, is still in exactly the same place....
The PGDB at a later date told an elderly couple who HAD smelt fumes and Had made a complaint, with their unit at 540mm, closer than mine and issuing in to a much more enclosed area....smelling it in their bathroom* usually the smallest room in the house.....what happens when we open the bathroom window to let the steam out from the hot water from the califont.....oh the fumes go back in....
These poor buggers, who were on meds because of the stress......told to shut the window when they use it.....
Add this to the fact all the work covered by the charges was never tackled after the hearing, 42 charges not chased up (because if I didn't do it who did?), the explosion still has no one held responsible and a cert manipulation with the cylinders still on the deck......really?
Martin Sawyers CEO of the PGDB.....please define "dealt with" in reference to my case.....
-
So Martin Sawyers CEO PGDB thinks that the people who over seen "my" case, not the case of the explosion, but mine.....well Martin thinks that the these conflicted people were "best placed to assess the information at the time"......
Really Martin you mean the Impartial investigator who was mates with the chair of the hearing......really those guys? Best placed?.......oh they were placed alright......positioned I would say.....
So Martin has the 42 charges been dealt with, because if I wasn't responsible who was......what's that Martin the PGDB don't know because they didn't pursue this.....really?
How about the explosion Martin, has that been dealt with, because as far as I know, no one has been held accountable and the guy who all the evidence points to faced a charge but it disappeared.....really?
How about the manipulation of certificates, a potential fraud, has that been dealt with Martin.....because the only time the PGDB contacted these people was in the un-true letter about me and then left the cylinders where they were....
Dealt with mate?.........
-
The only way I can make sense of "dealt with" is in the context of cover up and attempt to pin on me, Martin.
-
That smug boss-eyed Peter Jackson said to me when I approached him at a PGDB road-show about the sham of a hearing that I was subjected to.....
He said and I quote, "I don't see the problem you kept your license".......so "ten to two" it was just my business, reputation and home you wanted me to lose eh! What a giant smug twat, in my opinion.
I nearly said " just you look me straight in the eye and say that again"......but I thought it would take all night and I had work in the morning.....
-
Just compare the drawing I drew at the hearing with the actual fumes.....then add that to the two comments from the owner.....
This is the last and final charge I was done for....I got done for installing it (one charge) and signing it off (2nd charge).....
Do you mean "dealt with" Martin by losing my business and reputation and home based just on these.....just this?
I was dealt to mate not dealt with......DEALT TOO.....leaving 42 charges worth of work still out there......ask for the card.....just remember this guys when he goes on about safety and promoting the industry.......
-
I did nothing wrong, nothing.....but we lost our home, business and reputation, had my wife terrorised with child sexual abuse case notes and had to work away from home on and off since.....
My only mistake trying to warn that Darnley was doing dangerous work covered by dodgy certs.....for 6 years before an explosion.....which they tried to pin on me....missing and incomplete certificates covering an explosion....I could not have been more bang on the money, I could not have tailored my warning any better.......
What I didn't know was I was complaining to the very people who gifted Darnley his full certifying license...
These same people then appoint as the investigator the same person, Tony Hammond, who gifted Darnley his license.....to investigate for a hearing that was to be presided over by Tony Hammond's colleague Stephen Parker.......Stephen Parker calling a halt to the hearing just as we were going to go 100% innocent.....
Is this what Martin Sawyers means by "dealt with".......by the best people for the job.......please explain Martin.
-
sent today
Paul Gee <plumbngas@gmail.com>
9:34 AM (0 minutes ago)
to Martin, Wal
Martin,
I believe I have a very strong case against the PGDB for directing a character assassination on myself whilst terrorising my wife and placing undue risk on the NZ public.
I believe the behaviour levelled at my wife and I has been underhanded, biased, directed, egregious, premeditated and corrupt. Anyone at the PGDB in my opinion is party to all this if they don't investigate it and fix it.
My case as never been addressed nor dealt with, the people involved were not the best people for the job as they had huge conflicts of interest, which were later shown by their apparent biased and dishonest actions.
I tried to complain about these conflicts of interest, 6 years to this day, and was told by the PGDB that the PGDB was impartial, which is a conflict in its self.
I was also told that until the investigator acted egregiously them I could not complain about his involvement.
Tony Hammond withheld over 100 photos that proved what I had maintained from the very day of the explosion, someone had moved my original pipe work, is this now egregious enough for me to complain?
If this is now deemed by the PGDB as egregious enough, I would like to formally complain about this withholding of these crucial photos, as well as the other dishonest actions by Hammond and Parker.
Please can you provide a point of contact for my lawyer, either at the PGDB or your insurance company.
You previously said to me with disgust that, "I am only after money" but I will have to correct you on that, I also want an apology.
As I see no other way to replace the home my wife lost, or put my sons through uni or re-establish a viable business, yes I do want compensation for the effects the actions of the PGDB have had on me and my family.
Before the PGDB told the local high school I was capable of issuing illegal certs in the North Island my business was thriving, I had zero debt and was mortgage free.
I just want to go back to where I was before I was singled out by the corrupt actions I was subjected to.
Please provide a point of contact.
Paul.
-
Lets see if this system of ours is fair, if its open to all, if YOU can expect to rely on it for justice......lets see....
-
See this is where robust systems, run properly with integrity comes into it....and why we all should push for this because it protects us all. This could have been anyone of you, and still could be.......
If the PGDB had said,
"Paul that guy you were trying to warn us about doing dodgy work for the last 6 years tried to tell us that he might be altering work, adding to work and manipulating the cert system to cover that work......well.......er....(twiddles finger on desk back and forth)........See we've had....err an explosion.....ummmm.......you were right, there was actually a cert with all the leak test fields empty....umm he actually altered your pipe mate.........errrrr......sorry mate for not listening to you, good on ya"
But the problem is.....because the integrity was gone, to cover an ineptly run cert and license system.......well they excepted that cert and gifted Darnley his license......they just couldn't swallow that chunk of pride....(nor the exposure both legally and in the media).........
Lets pin it on Paul......two birds one stone.......
A scape goat was needed........enter me and my family......
-
And the PGDB know this happened but are happy to hide it.......
What do you think will happen next time, it might be you.....
Do you think the system we have now is robust and run with integrity?
Do you think when this badly thought out cert system which has so many holes in goes wrong.....who will they blame? themselves or YOU?
Well they have set a precedent that shows they can pin it on someone innocent and protect the guilty......
What is the best protection for us as an industry and us as a country? Fix this debacle or hide it and hope it don't happen again?
And if it does happen again, do you think they will come clean and protect you or pin it on you? You only have to know the past to read the future.....we need to write our past by doing something today.....
Perhaps people could contact Martin Sawyers and ask him, perhaps lots of you could contact Martin and ask him about it.....why did the person who most if not all evidence points to faced a charge for an explosion, but it disappeared.....and no one has been held accountable for the near fatal explosion.....
.
.
.
-
Why won't they talk to me directly......apparently I have no voice unless I can afford a lawyer, if I was on the dole or a rapist/murderer I could get legal aid......really?
But because I am a hard working guy who tried to avoid all this by putting public safety before profit, being financially crippled by the PGDB's legal juggernought at a premeditated, prejudiced and biased hearing.....well I got to save for a lawyer.....have a read, sent today......
You guys want to put your business', lives, reputation and faith in these people......good luck with that.....
Paul Gee <plumbngas@gmail.com>
Attachments12:23 PM (0 minutes ago)
to Martin, Wal, Jayson
Martin,
I have just received your letter dated 21 Feb 2017, today being 26 Feb. Thank you.
Please in the future can you communicate with me by the modern form of correspondence that is "email", I find that the "snail" mail is just that, and it is my experience that the PGDB have used this as a delay tactic in the past. It is blatant and quite silly.
In response to your statements, see attached, with regards to any correspondence between the PGDB and myself. I feel I should point out a few facts for your information....
The same law firm I engaged before,
1. To try and warn about dodgy certs covering dangerous work for 6 years before the explosion. In this instance I did try in person but, just as you are saying, the PGDB would not talk to me directly (perhaps they should have because all this could have been avoided).
AND....
2. To fight the premeditated and directed witch-hunt levelled at me and my family by the PGDB.
Well Martin this "highly reputable" law firm cost me (from memory)well in excess of 15k, only to tell me to plead guilty to the 42 charges that even the PGDB found me innocent of...... with the last and final two charges being nothing more than a last grasp by the PGDB to justify spending 220k persecuting me and hold on to their 100% conviction rate, which they openly boasted of.
Of Note: the cost of Darnley's investigation was roughly 30k.....(if his % of "costs" recouped are to be believed).
Perhaps if the PGDB had paid a similar amount on both of us, then they would have noticed the evidence that points to Darnley, who faced a charge but had it dissappear. This evidence is still there for those that want to see. Actually most of the damming evidence pointing to Darnley I found going through the PGDB's evidence against me, how does that happen?
I have a question and I feel it is a fair question that begs an answer.......
Why will you only talk to a lawyer but not to me directly?
Facts are facts, are facts, it matters not who presents them.
Please do not insult my integrity by telling me it is for my own good, to ensure that I get a "fair go", this is laughable, and frankly insulting in my experience.
Yours with integrity, Paul
3 Attachments
-
Here's the 3 attachments.....
-
I was offered "name suppression" before all this happened and told them to place it somewhere dark....
I went public from day one, as I had nothing to hide.
I believe this offer of being rooted behind closed doors was more in their favour than mine.....
I say to the PGDB and any one that talks to the PGDB please let them know......
You answer my case in a public forum, you answer it to the plumbing industry (it most definitely could be you next guys) so lets see what they say about this, what is their take TO YOU......
I think how they respond reflects their attitude to you, the public and their duty/responsibilities.....
Do you guys think the industry and NZ public are served well by.....well carpet sweeper under'ers.....hiders not show'ers......a cover up or transparency....
Has a tarp thrown over a leak ever permanently fixed a roof?.....it only stops the loss of roof integrity for a limited period......and if it goes unaddressed it ALWAYS makes it a much bigger problem for the future......the longer it is left the bigger the problem.....
As an experienced practical person....I ain't no tarp thrower......but what are the PGDB? Is the new cert system we work under a tarp thrown over a leak......or a proper fix.....
This is the roof you all work under......hope you all got umbrellas.....
.
-
Who ever the PGDB represent whether its the public or the industry.....they need to tackle blatant dodgy dealings, which have happened at a risk to the NZ publics safety.
I am totally aware that the PGDB are no longer responsible for the "non" certification system imposed on us today, I say "non" because I thought the whole point in a cert was to have copies deposited in a register for safe keeping, with carbon copies held in other places to ensure proper management ....other wise they are just pieces of paper....this system is much more open to abuse by all those that want to manipulate it.....powers that be included......
I do believe this new system has moved to a proper law court......this could mean prison..........you still glad you don't need to wait for an inspector to check your work before sign off......empowerment is really total responsibility to you and none for the powers that be......if they could just get us to pay for that too....it would be responsibility/cost free system to keep us in line...........oh wait there that is exactly what they got with deregulation......
But don't forget all those certs that the PGDB do hold, if they go bang........how confident are you of being dealt with in a fair, just and transparent manner.
.
-
From a press release, in the word of someone who had huge access to this body of documents.....
A former chief executive who used "guerrilla tactics" to "go to war" against his employer has failed in his bid to be reinstated.
Philip Routhan was sacked from his role with the Plumbers, Gasfitters and Drainlayers Board last year after he took more than 4000 documents from the office that he alleged proved his claim of serious irregularities about gas certification.
But the board said the documents also included personal staff files and said Mr Routhan had been abusive to other employees.
At an Employment Relations Authority hearing last month, Mr Routhan said there were potentially hundreds of faulty gas installations in New Zealand that could explode and kill someone.
He said he was asked to lie to Building and Construction Minister Maurice Williamson about safety problems at the request of board chairwoman Hazel Armstrong, a claim she denied.
In his decision, authority member Denis Asher dismissed Mr Routhan's application, stating the board's decision to fire him was one that any fair and reasonable employer would have reached.
"Put simply ... Mr Routhan – the respondent's most senior employee – elected to go to war against his employer," he said.
"There were no proper grounds for him to do so, and his guerrilla tactics in particular were in profound breach of his express obligations to his employer ... his behaviour was bizarre."
The reasons that Mr Routhan gave for taking the documents did not withstand scrutiny and no supporting evidence could be found, Mr Asher said.
His claim that there was a campaign by the board to remove him from his position was not backed by any evidence, he said.
Mr Routhan said he was disappointed in the decision and the authority lacked jurisdiction to consider the public safety issue.
As far as he was aware, nothing had been done to address his concerns about the gas certification failures.
"I would prefer not to be proven right by the loss of innocent lives, or by serious injury to people, or by further damage to property."
He refused to comment directly on the decision because he was considering his options.
Ms Armstrong said she was pleased with the ruling, which vindicated the board's action.
As chief executive and registrar, it was Mr Routhan's responsibility to monitor the process for checking gas certificates and after he left, the board had reviewed all gas certificates.
Ad Feedback
"We reiterate that Mr Routhan's allegations relating to unsafe gas installations have been fully investigated and discredited and we have confidence in our gas certification processes."
Is this the same certificate system that has now been shown to be so wanting......by my case......
I never I thought I would agree with Routhan but.....
"I would prefer not to be proven right by the loss of innocent lives, or by serious injury to people, or by further damage to property."
It is lost on him though (as it usually is by these types)......he was in charge when all this happened......
.
-
Mr Routhan said there were potentially hundreds of faulty gas installations in New Zealand that could explode and kill someone.
Now Phil was the CEO when the explosion happened.........
And the statement below of.........
"We reiterate that Mr Routhan's allegations relating to unsafe gas installations have been fully investigated and discredited and we have confidence in our gas certification processes."
..........was made during my "investigation"........BUT......I didn't see all the dodgy certs until after my hearing......
Not to mention the 560 certs sold blank with a signature........
Does this give you confidence in those that lead us.....those that pontificate about integrity, honesty and the "ask for the card" campaign?
To ignore history is to resign your self to repeat it......there is a massive lump under the PDGB's office carpet and they are all clambering over it pretending not to see it........
.
-
Mr Routhan said there were potentially hundreds of faulty gas installations in New Zealand that could explode and kill someone.
And this was before we had a system that any new work doesn't have to be registered anywhere but in the fitters shed...........in a housing shortage of 60,000 new homes............
Am I the only one with a crayon joining these dots???????
.
-
Lets see............
From: Paul & Emma Gee [mailto:gspservices@xtra.co.nz]
Sent: Sunday, 26 February 2017 2:37 p.m.
To: 'martin@pgdb.co.nz'; 'jayson@pgdb.co.nz'
Cc: 'Wal Gordon'
Subject: Offical information request.
Martin,
By means of an OIA request please may I get a copy of the file of the investigation that gave way to Ms Armstrong’s statement attributable to her in the Dominion post, see below in blue and bold for the investigation for which I speak, taken from these attachments.
Ms Armstrong said she was pleased with the ruling, which vindicated the board's action.
As chief executive and registrar, it was Mr Routhan's responsibility to monitor the process for checking gas certificates and after he left, the board had reviewed all gas certificates.
"We reiterate that Mr Routhan's allegations relating to unsafe gas installations have been fully investigated and discredited and we have confidence in our gas certification processes."
The Dominion Post
I have included two press releases to give you context and a timeline, I am sure that you would also look to protect the NZ public from those that would put their personal agenda before them, and in this light I assure you I am not being frivolous nor vexatious.
I will post your reply, as I have others on the Plumber’s Forum, as this has over 50,000 views and it is a specifically a plumbers forum, you can be seen as speaking in public to some of the industry, your answer could be seen as a reflection of your attitude to this industry and your wiliness to tackle injustice and safety.
I have copied the link for your convenience.
http://www.plumbers.co.nz/forum/fellow-practitioners-update/41/fellow-practitioner-issue-236-dated-12-december-2014/1810/msg10736#msg10736
Yours With Integrity Paul Gee
.
-
Just so we are clear this cert system mentioned below......well its the one that the PGDB had under their administration.....
You know the one that later had an accuracy disclaimer and in the PGDB's own words they couldn't locate some of the originals.....
The system that the only proof the certificate for the last work at the site of an explosion was received by the PGDB.......
...... was and I quote .......that there was a copy on their register with a "fox-pro" entry date, but apparent from that they never received it...............I kid you not....
this cert and many others lacked the gas LEAK test results filled in........yeah that cert system......
.
-
I just came across this little doosie attributable to Martin sawyers....with a recent court result about a gas leak and I suppose a risk of an explosion.
“Dealing with gas is dangerous. Never install a gas appliance yourself. The law requires installation by a licensed tradesperson and our new campaign ‘sort the pros from the cons’ shows consumers how to choose the right people. It highlights the importance of qualified tradespeople, and the need to eliminate any risk by asking to sight a New Zealand Practising Licence before any work begins,” PGDB Chief Executive Martin Sawyers said.
The verdict reinforces the PDGB message of safety and warning.
“A qualified tradesperson will make sure gas appliances are connected correctly, flued and vented properly, working properly and most importantly, that it is safe to use. The Board and the New Zealand Insurance Council warn that mistakes are costly and illegal jobs can void insurance policies.
What if that qualified person had a license issued by the PGDB and the job cert was excepted by the PGDB and it blew up (as it did at Milton Street chip shop)?
Would it void their insurance?
Well there are quite a few other certs missing the gas leak test results.....what if they blow up? The work is still out there.....
Just a tad hypocritical?
-
Badger, has anyone from the media explained why they cant be arsed in dealing with an injustice? It has become clear that justice is really only for the rich who can foot the bills for expensive lawyers.
-
The illusion of our justice system is if your on the bottom of the pile you'll get a free not so great lawyer....
If your in the middle.....you pay.....a lot.....you ain't got it......you got no lawyer....mine charged me in the 1000's of dollars....to finally tell me to plead guilty.....to 42 charges that I was found innocent of....thanks Wal
Rich can afford the best and can do as they like....
I'll post you some letters and press releases.....have a look at the reporters name....
-
Look at the dates....
-
I went to see Nick smith three years before the explosion and three years before this letter (6 years before the explosion) I had tried to get the dodgy certs covering dangerous work looked at.....
-
So after the cert 345186 (the pizza oven cert) the one that lacks test results and in the PGDB's own words was never received by the PGDB, so at best Darnley was selling the carbon copies of certs, incomplete at that.....at worst the PGDB had accepted that dodgy cert............well anyway it ended in an explosion.....
could you get a more dodgier cert.....covering any more dangerous work......it blew up......
Just as I had tried to warn.....
Of note Hazel's comment below.....
Ms Armstrong said she was pleased with the ruling, which vindicated the board's action.
As chief executive and registrar, it was Mr Routhan's responsibility to monitor the process for checking gas certificates and after he left, the board had reviewed all gas certificates.
"We reiterate that Mr Routhan's allegations relating to unsafe gas installations have been fully investigated and discredited and we have confidence in our gas certification processes."
Well she made that comment after this one was told to the poor sod in a burns unit.....
below.....
From: Melanie Phillips [mailto:melanie@pgdb.co.nz]
Sent: Wednesday, 11 May 2011 4:13 p.m.
To: Paul & Emma Gee
Cc: Wal Gordon
Subject: RE: Paul Gee
Hi Paul
Please see attached Belinda’s file note of her request to John Darnley for a copy of certificate 345138. This occurred after she was contacted by lawyers acting for the owner on 17 April 2009 requesting copies of all gas certificates relating to 136 Milton Street.
Also attached is a copy of the certificate received which, as you will see, is of quite poor quality.
Please let me know if you need any more information.
Regards
Mel
From: Melanie Phillips[mailto:melanie@pgdb.co.nz]
Sent: Wednesday, 11 May 2011 3:22p.m.
To: Paul & Emma Gee; WalGordon
Subject: RE: Paul Gee
Hi Paul
I have just gone back through the file and can confirm that the Board never received a pink copy of certificate345138. The only copy the Board has is a photocopy of the certifier’s copy, which you produced as exhibit PG007 together with a copy of the gas suppliers copy.
I see notes from Belinda Greer on the file that the Board copy of certificate 345138 was received after the explosion in 2009, I think from the Department of Labour.
I’m sorry I can’t help you further.
Regards
Mel
Sound plausible to guys?
-
then Nick wrote this.....
-
and he wrote this
-
Now this was written just weeks before my 3rd to 5th May 2009, written 16th April 2011....
My hearing if nothing reiterated his concerns and proved them.....so when did he become minster of Building and Housing (might have been a promotion, nice work if you can get it)......because that's when he would have the power to help, to investigate......to do all was asking for in his letters.....
But even though this happened in his back yard......well lets see......
-
But by 13 July 2011....he had this to say......weeks after my hearing.......
He later got Maurice's job as Building and Housing Minster....and got his good friend* Bickers in the PDGB chairman's seat, the new Board.....
*Nick said this to me when he summonsed me to his caravan to tell me to back off......Bickers left before his term was out, for personal reasons......
Nelson MP Nick Smith, having previously accused the board of making Mr Gee a scapegoat, said he didn't think an inquiry was needed.
"The Government is very focused on trying to tidy the show up. I'm prepared to give the new board a fair go."
Dr Smith said he hoped Mr Gee could return to the region and his business.
"He needs to consult with lawyers as to whether there's anything available for him seeking redress."
consult lawyers......well..........the lawyers who told me to plead guilty to the 42 charges I was found innocent for.....well Bruce the lawyer made no secret that he was Nicks friend too.....
You'll notice in the attachment that even oor bloke in the explosion even backed me......
Now Wombles you asked me about the media.......next post.....the reporter for that article and others where I thought she was backing me, backing the truth........Karen Goodger....
-
We'll its a small world Womble.....
Goodger - former electorate office manager of the Southern Link's biggest backer, Nelson MP Nick Smith,and current member of Southern Link lobby group Progress Nelson Tasman - wrote the feature but didn't want her name published, Martin said.
"So I gave her a somewhat flippant nom-de-plume. Peter Gilham is a spy in a John Le Carre novel."
More accurately, that would be Peter Guillam.
Goodger was also once a long-serving journalist at the Nelson Mail departing after the 2011 election to work in Smith's office. She was highly praised by Smith and others at his 2014 election night victory party.
She left the job soon afterwards, but maintained a working relationship with Smith.
-
My hearing was in 2011....
from below.......departing after the 2011 election....
I phoned once the top reporter here, had my smart phone with me again.....asked her if she could warn her readership of the dangerous work done in her readerships area......
She said she didn't have the resources.....I offered to write it and take full responsibility......didn't want to know mate
-
Have a look at what the Office for fairness for f**** all had to say about the cert for the last work at the site of an explosion, the cert mentioned by number in the DOL complaint.....
Take the time to read it all, it is nonsensical.....fair these cunts don't even know what fair is, let alone have an office for it....
-
that cert that no one has seen.......well here is the investigator......who claims to have seen it.....
-
so who's a fibber?
-
can anyone explain the logic in this.....its for an explosion......it looks like to me fibs.....the only evidence of receiving the cert, after denying just that......is that you had the right details, cert number, address, name....etc...
For f**** sake do you need any more.....
-
this cert and others resulted in the accuracy disclaimer........on a gas safety cert system.....really?
-
So the guy (me) who spent 6 years trying to get this looked at.....just look at the dates listed here in my last post in this attachment...2005.......explosion 2009......
So the PGDB go after me?.............not the guy I was warning about..............these people are still in charge guys.
-
Ms Armstrong said she was pleased with the ruling, which vindicated the board's action.
As chief executive and registrar, it was Mr Routhan's responsibility to monitor the process for checking gas certificates and after he left, the board had reviewed all gas certificates.
"We reiterate that Mr Routhan's allegations relating to unsafe gas installations have been fully investigated and discredited and we have confidence in our gas certification processes."
You do know Hazel, we actually did have an explosion…..covered by a very dodgy cert?
So how is it I could find a litany of huge problems…… like an unregistered cert with the carbon copies handed out (that blew up), 560 certs signed but blank for any muppet to fill in, missing/mislaid certs by the PGDB, incomplete certs, twink and different colour inks on certs excepted by the PGDB, paper certs that are different to the electronic fox-pro cert system, licenses handed out to people who hadn’t sat an apprenticeship.....
Hazel has confidence in the gas certification system……really Hazel?..... You do know we are on about the gas SAFETY cert system?........ not the pile of magazines in the foyer…..FFS.
....this “fully investigated” investigation by PGDB in to its own mal-administration of the cert system.....well its like an artist looking for faults in his own painting that he is attempting to sell to us all....he ain't going to find anything wrong....or getting a surgeon to do the autopsy of someone who he is accused of actually putting on that autopsy table by malpractice, his own malpractice.
Then getting that surgeon to let us know what went wrong…. publishing his findings so we can “learn” what went wrong.
Is he going to?……. so he can be blamed, so he can blame himself...he just won't, he ain't never, ever going to.
That is why we need an independent, transparent, unbiased inquiry. For our industry to regain some of the respect and integrity that it had before these people got their claws in to it…..when it was run by honest trades people out of a town house in Lower Hutt, not some mirrored ivory tower in the capital, with newly installed security systems. The money spent on this mirrored luxury could have bought that town house ten fold.
The PGDB have past form for being incapable of judging them selves, just look at the PGDB judging its own impartiality at my impartiality hearing .....to judge your own impartiality is a total oxymoronic misnomer, or in other words total bollox.
Impartial is……unbiased, unprejudiced, neutral, non-partisan, non-discriminatory, anti-discrimination, disinterested, uninvolved, uncommitted, detached, dispassionate, objective, open-minded, equitable, even-handed, fair, fair-minded.
Do you trust the PGDB to investigate its self, stand there and say…… hell yeah we granted a license to someone who blew that place up……an apprenticeship, nah we just had ONE oral exam (chat)…why? Oh we are all part of the same clubs, thought he was all good……the explosion? We’ll look into that…….
So the surgeon gets out his rusty scalpel, no need to wipe the blood off because the blood of the cadaver is the same as the once patient……. it is the once trusting patient.....he wipes his grubby hands in his egg and red sauce strewn medical scrubs, clears his cigarette choked throat and goes looking for the truth........does he look for the truth for his report. ...how did this guy die of blood poisoning, or does he report ...............nothing to see here, natural causes......NEXT PLEASE.....
You have all been duped for decades and paid for the pleasure in $2 million illegally taken funds, license fees, licenses that you trained for…. that are gifted to their mates……and certs you paid for that were misplaced and mal-administered by the PGDB…..run so badly that we are left with the worst gas cert system in NZ history, ever…..
You reckon they are just going to stand up and say…..oooops, my bad……..are they f****, wake up.
-
I wonder if Martin is aware of......
As chief executive and registrar, it was Mr Routhan's responsibility to monitor the process for checking gas certificates and after he left, the board had reviewed all gas certificates.
-
Apparently Martin in responsible for all the certs.......and now he knows (I have told him) they are a total cluster f**** of a mess, at least in my experience.....
So Mart......what are you going to do about it all......
I will ask you again why are you risking your reputation for the likes of these people.....I will personally help you clean up this mess.
You said once you were looking for people to come forward with problems and issues to help clean the industry up, well here I am sat up straight with my hand up waiting to be asked......
-
How can you believe a group of people who have stated.........
the board had reviewed all gas certificates......then AFTER they claimed to have "reviewed" ALL the certs..........I found a total mess.....
Now do you think they will answer honestly, they haven't so far......they sit up in that eagles lair with all the evidence locked away from us all, deterring us from looking by charging $25 per cert to peek.....
I was told there were over a 1000 certs in my name, when it was in reality only about 89 (which I found out after the explosion)......this was way back in the early 2000's, explosion was in 2009.
So I was looking at, if I listened to their numbers, $25,000 to check......I was most definitely deterred.....even when I told them that it was impossible for me to have 1000 certs.....
This was totally avoidable......and here is the problem......if you cover up incompetence.......you are forced to continue to cover up, even when it goes terribly wrong......
If it goes nipples skyward......you are forced to cover up even more........if you get away with this cover up (as they have up to today).........they will be well practiced at it.....
What do you think will be there reaction for future f**** ups?.........what if you're in their sights......
What do you think will happen when the "anyone can print off all you like" cert system goes tits up.........who will get shafted there.....
I will tell you who will be shafted...... OUR industry......after THEY have f****ed it up......
.
.
.
-
The sickening part about these dodgy, incomplete, inaccurate, scribbled on, twinked, signed blank, mismanaged SAFETY certs (all accepted by the PGDB) and flippantly issued full craftsman licenses, with at least one to a muppet who all the evidence points to in an explosion (as well as at least 9 others)......well all this has been done in peoples lives, their homes and businesses......
And the people charged with looking after this.....rather cover it up.....that is reprehensible.
Basically they would rather protect their reputations than do what they are there to do protecting the NZ public's safety......and we follow these people......really?
-
For work safe, lol they told me if I ain't happy I should complain to the Ombudsman.....been there before he doesn't really give a flying Donald duck....
All I have asked for is a copy of an investigation that was done by the people (the only people who laid a complaint which in turn led the whole investigation by the PGDB...........it is based totally on this one complaint by DOL attached below which resulted in this Hazard Alert issued well before the investigation that the PGDB needlessly ruined my life and terrorised my wife for)
You will notice its marked UNCLASSIFED.....should be just a quick copy and past, anyone you needed to talk to could surely be talked to and a reply made within 20 WORKING days its like a month.....
Your recent official information act request - [17/00053] [UNCLASSIFIED]
Inbox
WorkSafe New Zealand OIA <oia@worksafe.govt.nz>
5:12 PM (1 hour ago)
Hello Paul Gee
I refer to your official information request received on 9 February 2017, requesting:
By means of the Official Information Act Request, please may I get a copy of the whole case file and investigation notes held by you for an explosion that occurred in Nelson at the Milton Street Chip shop, Event ID 09041401 dated 09/04/2009.
This letter is to notify you that WorkSafe New Zealand is extending the time available to it to answer your request. Our response will now be made by 31 March 2017.
The reason for the extension is:
15A 1(b) Consultations necessary to make a decision on the request are such that a proper response to the request cannot reasonably be made within the original time limit. (20 working days).
You have the right to contest the decision to extend the time by seeking an investigation and review of that decision by the Ombudsman, whose address for contact purposes is:
The Ombudsman
Office of the Ombudsman
PO Box 10-152
WELLINGTON 6143
If you wish to discuss any aspect of your request or this response, or if you require any further assistance, please contact oia@worksafe.govt.nz.
Kind regards
Cxxxxxxxx Sxxxxx
Team Leader – Ministerial Services
Level 6, 86 Customhouse Quay, PO Box 165, Wellington 6140
P +64 4 896 5981
W www.worksafe.govt.nz
-
When you read the DOL complaint, it is full of weird certificate worries, concerns about the certificates.......
Now these certs are covering an explosion, cert 345138 was known by the PGDB in their own words to have had its carbon copies passed around but claim to have never received the pink original by the PGDB...they made this claim within days of the explosion to the chipshop owners lawyer (he was laying in a burns unit at the time).....
This is of course total and utter bollox because that very cert with the same number and cert details appears on their now defunct electronic register, you know the register that carries a disclaimer for accuracy.....then it got moved to ESS and became the "anyone can print off all you like and not register it anywhere" safety cert system......talk about a few hundred steps backwards....
This is the same cert that the investigator claims to have seen the original, see attached, but the PGDB claim to have never had it but it appears on their website, this is the same cert system that Hazel claims to have fully investigated......after the explosion......
In this same compliant it mentions a hose as the cause of the explosion but no one seems to think that a third hose sold many weeks after I left Allgas is of no concern, see receipt attached.....remember that this cert 345138, this hose are all mentioned in the only complaint, the only reason for the investigation in to me......
Now add to that I had warned for SIX years that there was dangerous work practices being covered by dodgy certs.........
Do you guys want to live under a system like that......because I can assure you it is still there and I can assure you that the Ombudsman doesn't give a giant flying Donald Duck.....see attached.
It is a cover up and any one who covers it up, is tainted by it all......it belittles everything they say about fair play, safety, integrity, the "trade".......when the powers that be do this.......you are frankly full of poo....
.
-
We lost everything because of this, and they terrorised my wife like you wouldn't believe.....
the lowest trick being the child sexual abuse case notes sent to my home, which my wife opened and read......
We were forced to sell our recently renovated mortgage free home......
My girl had to go live in a caravan then for a winter with my two boys who were 3 and 5, with no drinking water or a flushing toilet.....while I worked away in NZ housing where I saw some people treat their kids worse than I would treat my dog.
I have had to work away off and on since.......these tossers want me to get on with my life..........give it back and I will, no worries.
.
-
So they could find the electronic file straight away.....but couldn't get back to me by the 20 day deadline....because they got to "consult"....I wonder who with.......perhaps the PGDB could lend them their shredder.....
A month ago I received this....
On Thu, Feb 9, 2017 at 9:56 AM, Iona Cameron <xxx xxxx @worksafe.govt.nz> wrote:
Perfect, thanks Paul. I have found the electronic file and I will also request the hard copy file from Nelson. You’ll receive a reply to your OIA with 20 working days.
-
What cracks me up, and I don't hold any thing against the people on the front desk.....
But my case gets escalated up through the ranks until it is poo poo'd and swept under the very bumpy carpet......
I would love to see the faces of the people when they find out that things aren't as shiny and clean as we are all led to believe.
We supposedly have some sort of freedom with good "robust" systems.....as long as you are prepared to be well and truly rodgered as and when it suits that system, to cover its tracks.....all this is still here today, you are all still working under it.
-
What did I tell you.......
All of these people know of my case......but do nothing.....I have emailed Jacinda about my case.....not even a reply....
If you needed no other proof than this…..
We are held in total and utter irreverence by these people.......they screw over who suits and ignore those with connections.....
What started out as a DIY brag got Labour's new deputy Jacinda Ardern in the poo after it turned out that it's illegal in some parts of the country to replace a toilet without an authorised plumber.
Ardern landed in hot water after Wellington plumber Justin Will complained over an article in which Ardern was asked about her proudest DIY moment.
Ardern name-checked her partner, broadcaster Clarke Gayford, for his good work replacing an old toilet during renovations of their home in Point Chevalier, Auckland.
That set in motion a formal complaint from Will to the Plumbers, Gasfitters and Drainlayers board, which was obliged to investigate.
But after Ardern apologised for her error, the board has told Will the case is closed.
Ardern accepted the work she carried out was sanitary plumbing work under the [Plumbers, Gasfitters and Drainlayers] Act and that it was unlawful for her to replace the toilet pan herself," chief executive Martin Sawyers wrote in a letter to Will.
"Due to the work being minor and of low risk, Ms Ardern's cooperation, acknowledgement and apology, the board will not be charging Ms Ardern with an offence under the Act but instead have issued her with a warning."
Ardern said she was not above the law and copped to the "crime" as soon as she was contacted.
"I do not blame them whatsoever...If someone raises an issue with them they are obliged to investigate. I absolutely respect that."
She didn't know who lodged the complaint but there were no hard feelings.
"It's no Watergate."
Its no Watergate…….what a smart arse reply, she is saying it is no big deal, a total dismissal of our trade and what we have to comply with after sitting an apprenticeship……can a time served registered plumber with three years experience carry out this work?..........
Well Martin……
Due to the work being minor and of low risk….the site of my last charge is of such a low risk that it is the same today as it was when it was installed and the PGDB have told subsequent people to “just close the window when you use it”, Ms Ardern's cooperation…………I have fully co-operated from day one and am actually mentioned in the complaint as coming forward on the day of the explosion………… acknowledgement and apology…….I acknowledge and apologise for the corrupt system that took my business ,reputation and home……..
One rule for us and one rule for them……..wake up.
-
Doesn't this set a precedent?.......protecting cowboys?........anyone accused of this now can acknowledge, apologise and make a smart arsed play on aquatic word play.........and get away with it?
The thing is when cronyism, corruption and "favours for mates" rules.....you lose integrity, credibility and respect....to the detriment of the trade.
What's with the different translation of the Act in different areas of the country?........ probably because its convenient in a housing shortage to turn a blind eye when it suits....add this to the non registering of any new gas work in 60,000 desperately needed houses and homes........sounds like an explosion of shit to me.....
-
Won't even get a reply......emailed this morning....Martin Sawyers copied in to......won't get a response from him either......
We are held in total and utter irreverence by these people.....
Hi Jacinda,
I have recently read about your brush with the PGDB.
Please take the time to read a submission I made to a Select committee. I have lost everything because of the corrupt and biased actions of the PGDB, the same people who said it was ok for you to change a toilet because you acknowledged and apologised for it.
I did absolutely nothing wrong whatsoever but lost everything, please can you let me know to whom you acknowledged and apologised to, so I can do the same and clear my name.
Yours with integrity Paul Gee.
-
But Martin had this to say to the Indian community.....
Auckland, March 11, 2017
Tradespeople must make sure that they hold a current licence, with the ‘Licensing Year’ beginning on April 1, 2017.
The Plumbers, Gasfitters and Drainlayers Board (PGDB), which regulates the construction sector, has warned tradespeople that visits are now underway to all regions throughout New Zealand by their investigations team to examine reports of unauthorised work that is being conducted.
Chief Executive Martin Sawyers said; “People carrying out sanitary plumbing, gas-fitting or drain-laying work who are not registered with the Board, are undercutting licensed tradespeople and putting public health and safety at risk.
Is a toilet sanitary plumbing?.....sounds quite sanitary.......sounds quite hypocritical too......also she would surely have the money to pay one of us lowly plumbers......thought she stood for the working man......hmmmm.
When you remember the cases that the PGDB have chased up and ruined peoples lives for, cylinder strap missing on an unfinished job springs to mind, then you have the way all the evidence points to a person gifted his full license, with all the evidence pointing to him for nearly killing someone.....that carpet seems to get bumpier eh?
Still think things have changed with the newbies.....still depends on who you are, who you know and not what you know......
believe me I have lived it.......it's just another goose at the head of the V formation.....and they are still flying the predetermined course.
It amazes me what the media will pick up and broadcast and what they won't..........I have tried a lot......
.
-
Remember the Official Information Act requests I put in? Well its a joke.....
Martin,
With regards to the OIA I made on the 9th of Feb, I have received your letter of reply. Yet again I am disappointed by the PGDB as the OIA is incomplete.
I asked for ALL correspondence, that includes letters from the DOL as well, not just the PGDB's replies to those letters. It is even written as ALL correspondence in your reply.
I took correspondence as a mass noun, i.e. Communication by exchanging letters. for example....
‘the organization engaged in detailed correspondence with local MPs’
As these are replies can I now get ALL the correspondence, it is a pretty basic request.
I note two things,
1. You have sent by snail mail against my request for email correspondence
2. John Darnley is mentioned a lot in these letters......how on Earth did his charge for the explosion disappear? Even when all the evidence points in his direction, this smacks of corruption to me......are you going to continue this cover up Martin? I thought more of you, I truly did.
With integrity Paul.
Paul Gee <plumbngas@gmail.com>
Mar 14 (1 day ago)
to Martin, Wal
Martin,
Please can I get some sort of reply to this email below.
I do hope that you haven't replied by snail mail and I again formally request all the correspondence to me is by email.
To be clear I am after all communication, i.e. ALL the correspondence both outward and inward between the PGDB and the Dept of Labour with regards to the near fatal explosion at Milton Street Chip shop occurring in April 2009, the explosion I was framed for.
You Should note:
I have been trying to warn about dodgy certs covering dangerous work since 2002 (almost 15 years) and trying to clear my name since 2009 (soon to be 8 years)................I have not let up since and I never will.
You are now becoming the next part of the cover up, the opportunity of doing the right thing is passing.
I will force this issue until the next replacement incumbent addresses this (or the next one after that, add infinitum). One will even if it is years from now
What will your legacy be? Do you think those that you are covering for..... will cover for you when the shit hits the fan?.... and it will.... there is nothing surer.....
Please Martin I just want to clear my name, I have done nothing wrong. You can make a mark in the sand for truth and not cover up corruption.
Thank you
With Integrity Paul Gee
Paul Gee <plumbngas@gmail.com>
4:37 PM (2 minutes ago)
to Martin, Wal
Martin,
The deadline for my OIA request has expired, I am entitled by law to some sort of reply.
Please can you tell me what is to happen, what will be your next action. The inaction to me speaks volumes. The Official Information act was implemented to out corruption.
Do I need to go through the façade of a complaint to the Ombudsman?
Yours With Integrity Paul
-
Sent today.....
Why is there one rule for us and no rules for others because we allow it.......wake up guys.....
Martin.
To be clear I requested ALL correspondence, you sent less than half of the conversation. Please can I get all the correspondence, i.e. the whole conversation, it is quite an easy request and your omissions speak volumes.
Please note corruption has no expiry date, a corrupt action is corrupt regardless of time and anyone who helps to cover that corruption by definition becomes corrupt.
You have no idea of the lengths I will go to clear my name, this will become public knowledge and the public at large will become aware of your actions.
I am not a fire burning out over time, but a volcano building pressure.
Martin, go ask your wife what she would do if faced with living in a caravan for 14 weeks of a winter, with your kids when they were 3 and 5, with no running water or a flushing toilet, having to empty the chemical toilet and collect water from the local i-site with the whole community watching, just before that she received this filth attached as a means to prove an argument, go on ask her......you won't. But we lived this terror. My girl stayed, ironically it is her who protects the scum who sent this.
Just get me the evidence that proves I did no wrong. Pick a side....... I hope your not too sore from being a hand puppet.
With integrity Paul Gee
.
-
Just remember guys the Official Information Act was established to out corruption......
So when you get partial, "oo I didn't know you meant that" replies......its because they know it is corrupt.....dodgy feckers.....
You are running a business under this sort of crap.....I ain't going no where.....
-
How can Darnley face a charge for the explosion and have that charge disappear before his hearing?
They didn't put Darnley and I on the same hearing because we faced the same charge....a charge for the explosion.
I believe this was done because it would prevent us from questioning Darnley at a common hearing, but then when this segregation tactic had served its purpose Darnley's charge for the explosion was dropped....poof gone in a puff of smoke....see first attachment.
Now look at the letters to the Dept of Labour, add to this correspondence the large body of evidence pointing to Darnley too.......how on earth does this guy, mentioned lots of times in the correspondence not face a charge,
By the PGDB's own reckoning he handed out carbon copies of the cert for the last work at the site of the explosion but didn't register the original copy with the PGDB, which is bollox because there is a copy on the PGDB electronic cert register......this is the same cert actually mentioned in the DOL complaint, cert 345138......
-
Look at the DOL complaint and the Hazard Alert.........they mention both the cert 345138 and that a hose caused the explosion.
The hose was sold to the exploding chipshop nearly two months after my last day, also compare my period of employment to the request to alter a cert in my name, months after I left....
I even had four books of certs bought in my name, with out my knowledge, after I told him to shove his job up his dodgy little arse.....
But it was me who they spent 220k on chasing and only about 30k on "chasing" Darnley......
Darnley was gifted his full certifying craftsman gas license with no apprenticeship served.....the PGDB then appoint as investigator the very same dodgy twat who gifted this license to Darnley, a Tony Hammond.
Hammond then withheld over 100 photos that proved what I was saying, i.e. that my initial work was altered.......As mentioned in the DOL complaint, I had said this from the very day of the explosion.
Don't you think the guilty should face their actions and the innocent should be protected? Well the PGDB don't they cover up for the guilty and persecute the innocent, sending them child sexual abuse case notes for their wives to open just before she is about to loose her home......dodgy dirty total twats they are.
You are financing these corrupts with your license fees, you know the same licenses you actually sat an apprenticeship for, but they hand out to their cronies.....twats.
.
-
8 years the PGDB have ignored blatant evidence of who caused the explosion.....
Dodgy cert 345138 mentioned by number in the complaint from DOL.....
From: Melanie Phillips [mailto:melanie@pgdb.co.nz]
Sent: Wednesday, 11 May 2011 4:13 p.m.
To: Paul & Emma Gee
Cc: Wal Gordon
Subject: RE: Paul Gee
Hi Paul
Please see attached Belinda’s file note of her request to John Darnley for a copy of certificate 345138. This occurred after she was contacted by lawyers acting for the owner on 17 April 2009 requesting copies of all gas certificates relating to 136 Milton Street.
Also attached is a copy of the certificate received which, as you will see, is of quite poor quality.
Please let me know if you need any more information.
Regards
Mel
From: Melanie Phillips[mailto:melanie@pgdb.co.nz]
Sent: Wednesday, 11 May 2011 3:22p.m.
To: Paul & Emma Gee; WalGordon
Subject: RE: Paul Gee
Hi Paul
I have just gone back through the file and can confirm that the Board never received a pink copy of certificate345138. The only copy the Board has is a photocopy of the certifier’s copy, which you produced as exhibit PG007 together with a copy of the gas suppliers copy.
I see notes from Belinda Greer on the file that the Board copy of certificate 345138 was received after the explosion in 2009, I think from the Department of Labour.
I’m sorry I can’t help you further.
Regards
Mel
Look at the inquiry to be convened by PGDB.......Milton St explosion didn't even make the inquiry in July 2010, but he faced a charge.......how does that work?
And guess who nearly burnt down a house in Nelson in Dec 2007......
Date: 27/12/2007
Location: Nelson
Equipment: Water heater
Accident type: Fire
Losses: A house was rendered uninhabitable due to fire and smoke damage. A water heater was destroyed.
Summary of events: Pipework in a gas installation had been pressure tested but appliances had not been commissioned.
The owner received permission from the installer to turn on the gas and use it (the installer was to commission the next day). Due to a leaking fitting, fire ignited in an external instantaneous water heater mounted in a recess box. Heat from the gas fire ignited the soffit above and the fire spread into the ceiling space.
Suspected causes and significant factors:
The appliance had not been commissioned and gas leaked from a loose fitting. Gas built up in the recess box and was ignited, probably from use
of the water heater.
What a muppet........
.
.
-
So you would think the Ombudsman's Office for Fairness for ALL (which is from my experience the same "double speak" as the ministry for love in the George Orwell novel 1984).
Well the Ombudsman (and the PGDB) think that the excuse for not producing the cert 345138 is that they don't have it.......he even mentions that the only evidence that the PGDB received it was that it appears on their website FFS....it appears with the same details, you know cert number, address, appliances, missing gas test results.....for the site of an explosion......that landed someone in a drug induced coma for weeks, if it had happened 2 hours before or a quarter of an hour later, it would have been surrounded by kids and people buying smoko.....yeah that explosion.
It would be almost understandable if this was just the one cert......but there are heaps.....sorry it doesn't seem very fair to me....
-
Don't believe they can't find lots of certs....you know those pieces of paper that WE are held to, believe me on this, you most definitely held to these legal documents.....
Have a look at their own letters one before I photographed the gas suppliers copies at the gas company and then poof they reappeared....magic.
You know the investigation into this shocking cert fiasco by Hazel.....well they can't find that either.....
The Ombudsman......well he is totally happy with this......why are tradesman treated like shit?
.
-
The way they fixed this carbon copy "problem".....the carbon copies that help keep things honest.......
Well we got the print all you like cert system, no carbon copies, open to anyone with a printer and your pick of bona fide license numbers to pick from, off the PGDB website......hope no one picks your number for this lottery.....
You think they will put their hands up and say, "yeah we f****ed this totally up.....sorry Mr.... (insert you name)......you can relax we won't ruin your life to protect our selves.......
Bend over....... assume the position.......
.
-
Cert 299760 can't be found.....I asked back in 2003.....couldn't find it then.....6 years before an explosion......
Imagine if they had looked into it back then?
-
So the Hazel Armstrong Investigation can't be found see todays CEO's response to my OIA request, I believe it should be a reference document, but apparently she doesn't want to be dropped in the shit perhaps............
Now I know for sure the PGDB accepted dodgy certs, I tried to tell them from 2002.........
Why wasn't Darnley implicated when, and this is according to the PGDB, he distributed the carbon copies for the site of an explosion, just not the top pink PGDB copy registered with the PGDB? (we know this to be bullshit because how on earth does the exact correct details, including cert number, appear on the PGDB website).
How could he face a charge, but have it disappear in this climate of investigations and Auditor General reports into dodgy certs?
Look at the dates and take the time to read the newspaper cutting......
The Ombudsman's duty is.........
10 Oath to be taken by Ombudsmen
(1)
Before entering upon the exercise of the duties of his office an Ombudsman shall take an oath that he will faithfully and impartially perform the duties of his office, and that he will not, except in accordance with section 21, divulge any information received by him under this Act.
(2)
The oath shall be administered by the Speaker or the Clerk of the House of Representatives.
Compare: 1962 No 10 s 8
13 Functions of Ombudsmen
(1)
Subject to section 14, it shall be a function of the Ombudsmen to investigate any decision or recommendation made, or any act done or omitted, whether before or after the passing of this Act, relating to a matter of administration and affecting any person or body of persons in his or its personal capacity, in or by any of the departments or organisations named or specified in Parts 1 and 2 of Schedule 1, or by any committee (other than a committee of the whole) or subcommittee of any organisation named or specified in Part 3 of Schedule 1, or by any officer, employee, or member of any such department or organisation in his capacity as such officer, employee, or member.
-
Dear Ombudsman,
Please see attached the most recent reply from the PGDB, sent in reply to my OIA request for the PGDB response to my lawyer’s letter dated 18th May 2010, also attached. I would complain that the excuse of “it’s too hard to find” is not sufficient and smacks of a cover up.
Of Note my Lawyer’s letter states that the actual DOL complainant, a Lance Windleburn, told my lawyer that my gasfitting work was of no concern, he did this well before the PGDB targeted me, and the PGDB were in receipt of this letter dated 18th May 2010. This is almost exactly mid way between the explosion of April 2009 and my biased hearing of May 2011.
I would ask you to examine this letter from my lawyer.
Received before my hearing, this is the hearing overseen (and conveniently shut down by) by the “impartial” investigators long term colleague ……do you think this is fair?...... that the actual person who wrote the DOL complaint, the DOL complaint being the only reason for the investigation into me, that he told my lawyer ( and the PGDB were aware of this before they decided to ruin my reputation, business and life)…..that my work was of no concern. Is this fair?
Is it fair the PGDB can’t find this correspondence…..its too hard to find. Is this a valid excuse for not producing…..I would complain about this also.
The Ombudsman has relied up to now on the PGDB’s own partial hollow unfounded excuses and reports to excuse their behaviour, this is not fair. It ignores undeniable proof of the witch hunt that wrecked my life, business, reputation and terrorised my wife.
Add to this that most if not all the evidence points to John Darnley, the same person who I had spent the previous 6 years before the explosion complaining about to the PGDB.
The same Darnley who faced a charge for the explosion but it disappeared BEFORE HIS HEARING.
The same Darnley gifted his full craftsman gas certifying license by Tony Hammond some 15 years before the explosion.
This is the same Hammond who was later appointed by the PGDB as the “impartial” investigator, against my protests of his partiality and his massive conflicts of interest.
Of note Darnley being of only 10 people awarded a license in this way, at the time of this issuing……..there has been others since……Hammond being one of them to allow him to be appointed as investigator, impartial he is not and has never been.
This is the same Hammond who claims to have seen the actual handwritten original top copy of cert 345138, see attached in his report.
Hammond makes this claim even though the PGDB claim to have never received this cert 345138 the year before, the PGDB made this claim of non receipt of cert 345138 while the blast victim lay in a drug induced coma, see attached…… but cert 345138 actually appears in the DOL complaint, also attached. Any of this fair so far?
This is the same Hammond who withheld over 100 photos and investigation notes during the whole period of investigation. The photos became available from the police forensic expert at the hearing, the notes are withheld under legal privilege, which is another wrong doing, until this day. Legal privilege is between a lawyer and his/her own client…….there is no client with an impartially appointed investigator, unless Darnley is his “client”? Still struggling to see any fairness……
This is the same Hammond who amended my 44 trumped up charges just before the hearing and is the same Hammond who was a long term colleague of the PGDB appointed Chair, a Stephen Parker, at my hearing, again appointed against my protests of a conflict of interest. Nah…..just not seeing any hint of fairness….
This is the same Parker who shut down my hearing just as I was going to prove my 100% innocence. 42 out of 44 charges answered, with the last charge broadcasted to the public by the PGDB as a major failing by me, for ironically not showing the trade its due respect and the importance of the cert system.
Of note this last one remaining charge of mine out of the trumped up 44 charges laid ( I say one because the other charge was for signing this last charge off, hence it disappears if the primary charge disappears) …….and this last charge was not for the explosion (which no one has been held accountable for to this day) ………well the sole basis for the cause of concern for this last charge was then ignored by the PGDB in another case AFTER my hearing…..telling an elderly couple to “just shut the window” when they use the appliance. These poor people I am told were on anti stress medication because of this, they are the “Highgates” of my previous complaints made to your office.
Now this same conflicted Tony Hammond believes that all changes to an installation should be recorded with a certificate, please see below in blue taken from the March 2009 PGDB newsletter. Tony Hammond had this to say….the actual month before the explosion of April 2009.
Before reading Hammond’s recommendations, please bear in mind that after I left Allgas….Darnley or someone at Allgas ( of which Darnley was the Manager and the only certifying gasfitter that worked there ) -
· Altered the gas supply LPG cylinder station at the beginning of the installation at the chip shop.
· Extended the gas supply to a pizza oven in the middle of the gas installation at the chip shop (this is the actual work covered by cert 345138 which is all in Darnley’s name).
· Lowered the pipework thereafter that led to the fryers at the chip shop (as shown by the sloping pipe and original screw holes in the withheld photos, proving what I had maintained from day one, but was ignored by the PGDB).
· Added the 2 x fryers to my initial pipe out. My only “piping out” of the installation is what I had maintained from day one, please see DOL complaint where the DOL say I state this.
· Replaced the supply hose to the fryer (because it had split not long after its initial install, due to the lowering of the pipe work) this is the cause of the explosion.
These five bullet points above are known to the PGDB and were at (and before) my biased hearing and I can prove beyond a shadow of a doubt none of this was attributable to me.
Written by Tony Hammond
The Gas Regulations (REG 24) define, amongst others, that the following require certification:
Extensions, additions and replacements to existing gas installations.
Alterations that result in repositioning of pipework or changes to the operation of the installation.
It is worth noting that an installation is defined in the Gas Act as “including a gas appliance”.
Therefore, replacement of one appliance by another, even if very similar, requires certification.
Further weight is added to the argument when one considers that even a “like for like” replacement needs to be adjusted to ensure gas pressure and aeration are set appropriately, the connections are gastightness and the safety devices operate at the right levels; that is, the appliance needs to be commissioned in accordance with clause 1.6.7 of NZS 5261.
Think of this opinion above of Hammond’s when you know that Darnley faced a charge for the explosion but it disappeared before his hearing, add that to the third hose replaced “like for like” sold to the chipshop by Allgas months after I left Allgas, also see attached the dated receipt and compare to my period of employment. Of note……THIS IS THE BLOODY HOSE THAT CAUSED THE EXPLOSION.
Please compare the date of this receipt for the hose that caused the explosion, to my period of employment and the date of a letter sent acting in my name with out my knowledge, attached.
I have three questions….
1. If Darnley was issuing carbon copies of the certs to the customer but not registering the cert with the PGDB, why wasn’t he charged (or even questioned about it), how did Darnley face a charge for the explosion, but it disappeared before his hearing?
2. If cert 345138 was never received by the PGDB…. how did the investigator see a copy of its original?
3. If cert 345138 was never received by the PGDB…..how can the PGDB electronic register show a copy of it, same cert number, same appliance,, same address, same names, same signatory…… same missing gas leak test
I had spent the previous 6 years to the explosion trying to get dodgy certs covering altered, dangerous gas fitting work before the explosion. Fair……Yeah Right……a cold Tui anyone?
The PGDB claim not to have received multiple certs (it is not just for the site of this explosion). These missing certs showed up after my investigation….these missing certs also lacked the recording of the testing for gas leaks, these certs also claimed by the PGDB to be missing……. These certs also have fox-pro entry dates and are present on their electronic website…..well these “missing” certs magically reappear after I photographed the carbon copies at the gas suppliers building……also see attached PGDB letters and examples of these carbon copies. Still not seeing any fairness…..
Of Note…..We have now lost this carbon copy honesty mechanism, we now have an ANYONE can print off all you like system, open to anyone with a printer and an internet connection, no handwriting, no carbon copies……with all “new” installs classed as “low” risk and not needed to be registered in any independent govt register, apparently in a shoe box in the garage will suffice……all done in a housing shortage of 60,000 homes…..this is total madness by a disconnected bureaucracy looking to protect it’s self and not the public.
Even according to the previous sacked CEO Routhan of the PGDB there are over 4000 dangerous certificates….NATIONWIDE. The PGDB must or at least should be aware of this, as should the minister.
Your office is charged with ensuring “Fairness for All”…….please can you point out to me in any of the above information (and I have much more available upon request to anyone)… where I (or the blast victim or NZ public for that matter) has been shown even a hint of a shade of an iota of fairness. You can not.
This was all done and is still done to this day at a very real risk to the NZ public’s safety; it is done with full knowledge of the Minister responsible, some of it in his own constituency…i.e. Nick Smith in Nelson copied in. It is an endemic problem country wide, dodgy certs covering dangerous work. A system mal-administered by the PGDB with lashings of cronyism.
Deregulation was lobbied for by GANZ and by Tony Hammond in particular (Stephen Parker, chair of my hearing heavily involved in GANZ also, just Google it), this resulted in the loss of independent inspectors with those financially gaining from installing the gas work being their own self certifying overseers of their own work…. in charge of adhering to regulation and quality control, this has now devolved ever further to the “anyone can print off a cert with no govt register for any new work” system….in a housing shortage of 60,000 homes……this is sheer madness.
Nick Smith….. I recently saw you talk of investing in regulation……I put it to you that it isn’t regulation……but re-regulation……we had heaps of effective and well proven regulation, but it was, in my opinion, thrown away to enable profiteering. Also Nick my previous offer to you Nick to take you to a home that is of a huge risk is still there, these are your constituents….the people who empowered you to represent them……really?
Perhaps any of you copied in can ask Nick for an Official Information Act request for all my emails to him……you have my full permission to do this and I do not regard my privacy impinged or affected in any way, just a simple……. Please Nick can I get all correspondence you have received and sent in reply to Paul Gee by means of an OIA request…..just copy and paste it from here if you like, you have my full permission.
Mr Ombudsman while I have your ear…..
I would like to complain again about the sending child sexual abuse case notes sent to my home unmarked of their vile content and read by my wife just before we lost our home. Mr Ombudsman this is not fair nor even civil nor decent, especially in a gasfitting disciplinary context. I came home to find my wife hysterical, we later lost our home and my girl had to live in a caravan while I worked away collecting drinking water and emptying a chemical toilet a the local i-site in front of the town I live in….whilst I worked away for that winter…..my lads were 3 and 5…..is this fair Mr Ombudsman? No it is not.
Also…..
I would complain about the letters sent to the sites of all my charges that claimed I was issuing illegal certificates in the North Island in places I have never visited, which even by the PGDB’s own reckoning could have given the recipients of these letters the impression that I was capable of acting illegally. The one sent to the local high school in the main centre of my business caused the most damage.
This most recent reply from the PGDB was again, against my many previous requests, childishly sent by snail mail, I would like to complain about this too.
I have lots of ready made USB sticks, each full of the evidence, photos, transcripts, testimonies, affidavits, with well over 300 documents, to prove that there is a cover up done at a risk to the NZ Public Nationwide, not just in Nelson. To ignore this is reprehensible.
I am happy to share with any of you copied in and I say to those with the power to change or reveal this and do nothing…..then shame is most definitely on you.
Most of you copied in claim to have the NZ publics best interests foremost in your intentions……I just am not seeing this and I ask you where do we go when the Ombudsman’s office acts this way…..its our last bastion of fairness for all.
Please Mr Ombudsman show me where in this fiasco and premeditated, slanted and biased witch-hunt was I shown any fairness, or the blast victim or the NZ public for that matter. You have ignored me to date, for years now, using the PGDB’s own biased, unfounded and hollow weak excuses, why is this?
Awhile ago Christopher Littlewood rang me (it’s the only time and out of context of the form of correspondence we have both used, i.e. email)…… to tell me…… after I waited for over two years for a reply from the Ombudsman, that your office doesn’t normally deal with these types of things, I request that he explains this to me while referencing the Ombudsman Oath and Act. I don’t believe he can.
Please can you justify any of this to me and those copied in……just use the “reply to all” button in your reply email…..again I have no problem with this and do not consider my privacy impinged.
I am complaining about all of this, I am complaining to the main Ombudsman about the Ombudsman’s actions to date….I believe that this complaint to the Ombudsman about the Ombudsman means that the main representative of the Ombudsman should review it, please can you clarify this ?
I hope your “Office of Fairness” isn’t the equivalent of Orwell’s Ministry of Love, where any “love” was definitely absent, a title given to it to allow acceptance by the populace.
THIS EFFECTS THE WHOLE OF NEW ZEALAND, i.e. previous dodgy certificates covering dangerous work in their homes with insufficient systems to cover any future work….in a bloody housing shortage of 60,000 homes.
Does that sound fair to you?
I welcome feed back and am prepared to front up to anyone to present my point. Preferably with all those concerned to be present.
Yours With Integrity Paul Gee
-
The Ombudsman is the last bastion of fairness in our society......think on that when looking at my case......or perhaps your case next.....
When you allow a cover up you are bound to continue that cover up, or risk being revealed yourself.....apply this to all those involved in my case in positions of influence and power.....
Now add that to the FACT that this mal-administered cert system most definitely effects the whole of NZ......
.
-
I fail to see how the government expects every plumber,gas fitter or drainlayer to protect the nz public when it is plain to see that they will only protect their wallets and themselves .
these people need to front up so paul and his family can clear their name and move on
-
Thanks Ford1....that's all I want.
If you haven't got your name what do you have?
I just want my life back, its been bloody hard for 8 years working away from home "in" my trade.... or at home "out" of my trade. But I have come this far, backing off isn't an option.
I can't move because the sale of my home now isn't possible as its a shack with blown weather boards and would never re-sell, especially in the housing shortage and the price hikes, besides my missis and kids like where we are.....I will willingly crawl over broken glass daily (and believe me it feels like that some days) if I can place my family in the best place or where they want to be.
The irony is........ that the PGDB see their main problem is me within this case...... that I am their problem.....
This is borne out by their actions since the explosion and up to this day..........
They do not see the maladministration of our gas safety cert system, not the handing out of licenses to their ill equipped/trained cronies, not the conflicts of interest, not the loss of integrity due to the corruption, not the risks to the public, none of that is acknowledged nor fixed....but me (the guy who warned this would happen for 6 years) .......they can't fix any of that, but hell yeah they can keep hold of ruining me.
No one has been held responsible for nearly killing someone in an explosion, plenty of evidence points to someone, but the PGDB do nothing, basically if they couldn't pin it on me then they don't want to pin it on anybody.......
The one thing I can't express enough to you guys is this....
If you make a deal with the devil, if you cover up dodgy dealings and dangerous work.....you are held to that, you are locked in.....you can't come clean otherwise you expose yourself......
So what happens if this raises its head again......more cover ups and ignoring safety will be a given, its a must....or they expose themselves....
This is not a good place for our industry nor our country......
Look at the system we have now, and please correct me if I am wrong......read what I have written below and point out any mistakes (I have been out of the industry fro some time!).....
I believe that the removal of the cert system from the PGDB's responsibility is an admission of the total maladministration.....look at what has been removed from the system now, handwritten hard copies with an honesty mechanism of carbon copies which were sold with an identifying unique cert number, sold only to licensed craftsman gasfitters and kept in four separate independent places......this is ironically what showed up the PGDB's incompetence.....and protected me.....because it was an honesty mechanism.....I had told the truth the whole time and truly warned about it since 2002, explosion 2009.......done in honesty.....
So this honesty mechanism was totally removed and we have the mess we work under now...and I can not stress this enough......in a housing shortage of 60,000 homes.......no new installs need to be registered as its "low" risk........really?
Its nothing short of crazy.......the system now does nothing to protect you nor the public, but it does protect the govt and sellers of gas, you wear the responsibility......it actually exposes you to full liability with a president set that cover ups are ok and cronyism is fine........good luck guys your going to need it, so will the NZ public.
The media don't care, nor does the Ombudsman.......what are YOU going to do when they come for you?
.
.
-
It seems to me that the present system will be followed by well meaning people, these law abiders ( the majority ) will do due diligence and keep all their records......so if there is an incident they can produce them.....and open a world of shit on themselves......
What do you do if someone changes your work, how do you prove it wasn't you.....in a system that has acted in this way to protect it's self......
The cowboys.....( hopefully the minority )......well they can do what they like, no one will know until there is an incident......and it is going to be bloody hard to prove anything.
Think about this.....
The PGDB have now blanked out our license numbers on their website......why?.....because dodgy people were using our numbers with out our knowledge on building consents so I am told...........why? because there are dodgy people out there......
These dodgy people ( and they are obviously about ) must be having a field day with the present system.......in a housing shortage......lots of money to be had........the lure of dodgy bastards since time immemorial.....
Our systems should protect us tradesman and the NZ public, not absolve the authorities from responsibility.....the authorities should police this system not distance its self and portion the responsibility on to the trades......
When the PGDB lost control of the cert system......( and lets not forget the income of the sale of the certs at 25 bucks a piece, it would not easily nor willingly relinquished )......it was an admission that they made such a mess of it.....and deregulation is a huge mistake......
But is ok.....especially for the sellers of gas......because now you guys are wearing ALL the responsibility......they can sell gas with about as much comeback and liability after the gas meter/LPG cylinder station as the selling of a happy meal......
This " empowerment " is a way of putting the responsibility on you, you are now running most of the cert system for them, with very little comeback for those making the big bucks nor our govt......
You could complain to the Ombudsman.........he don't care though......
I believe that we have been had, totally hoodwinked, taking the dangled carrot of being our own boss/certifier......you should probably do a law course too, be your own lawyer too......or be able to afford a good one.....
My lawyer took well over 10k off me (think it was 16k from memory).....only to tell me to plead guilty to the 44 charges that (after I ceased to use his services) me and Wal proved that even in a slanted and biased hearing 42 of the charges were bollox, and so is the last one.....
But we lost everything.....
.
-
Badger you have much to be angry about, but there are a couple of incorrect assumptions here.
The certification system was given to Energy Safety as part of a much bigger picture - along with the electrical certification. Many consultation meetings (although poorly attended by practitioners and not widely known about) were held by a special project group headed by Judith Burney (from MBIE). The government wanted to centralise the certification system and so for reasons that perplex most of it, they combined it and put it under the auspices of Energy Safety. I don't believe there was any other reason that probably some policy maker thinking it was a good idea and a political will to do so. The background to this went on for nearly a year and wasn't a flash in the pan situation. Unfortunately practitoners never really understood what was going on until it happened and even now I believe there are large numbers of gasfitters still not 100% up with how it is all meant to work.
The registration numbers were removed as I'm not sure the Board had a right to make them public.
The old certification system was far superior in my opinion to the current one, but if someone signed blank certificates then this removed all protection for them from what might be written on them after they were signed. Of course I would imagine if someone forged signatures on them then this would be a police matter and one of fraud. The current system leaves much to be desired and there is less protection for the public as anyone can download a blank certification form and fill it in and present it so the public are none the wiser.
There is a push toward self certification of plumbing - and it will be interesting to see what the Minister makes of that.
-
hi guys, Jax you are correct in what you say but whatever system is in place the problem is not gasfitters as they know what they are doing, but the unqualified D.I.Y.ers that will never be stopped. The system in place just makes sure that the qualified (us) pay for the prosecutions of those who are caught and not the Government, cheers
-
You are correct there Robbo, but that is the way the legislation reads, the 2006 Act is currently being reviewed so submissions need to be made to change that. I don't think there is political will to change this part though - which means we are out of step with our regulated colleagues like sparkies and builders.
-
Hi Jax,
I can only tell you what I have seen and witnessed......
I find it hard to believe that the total mismanagement of the cert system had no effect on the decision to move the responsibility of that cert system from the PGDB. They had several bites at that apple and their last try was forced to add a disclaimer for accuracy....
I have seen so much of this mismanagement in just my case alone it is mind boggling, from certs denied to been having received when there are copies on the electronic website, missing leak test results, twink on copies, pink copies not reflecting carbon copies, crossed out information, different colour inks of the obviously added info.....I could go on and on...there is a lot and that's just my case.
For the record I didn't sign blank certs.....I did allow my boss to fill them out and then I would sign them......
It took me a very long time to realise that there was added information AFTER I signed the certs as he kept the four copies together....there is a lot of ignored evidence that shows this......
My worst mistake of my life was doing as I was told by my boss, relying on him to split the certs and register them as promised.....I complained to the PGDB as soon as I thought something was up (initially thinking it was a forged signature) first time I did this was 2002 and many times thereafter....the PGDB did nothing other than protect my old boss and frame me for the explosion......even though lots of evidence point to my old boss.
But someone who was involved in the signing of blank certs still has his case before the PGDB years later, possibly even up to today.....the Ombudsman knows....see attached. Apparently the protection for him is still present!
I do have every right to be angry because this signing of blank certs resulted in all the sites of my charges receiving an untrue letter that ended in an apology for giving all the sites of charges the impression that I was capable of acting illegally.....see attached.
-
Here are the findings from the PGDB i.e. what they thought I had done wrong......after my biased hearing....
I find their "findings" very funny because they can't "find" lots of other things - see attached.....
PGDB can't find the last cert covering the explosion....(it misses the leak test results mind you.....how would that look if they had accepted that cert.....and it exploded.....the cert in the name of Darnley who they gifted his license to).....
PGDB can't find another example of a missing cert, which is just one of the many certs (there are lots of missing certs, but they can re-appear if you find carbon copies of certs they can't find, lol).
PGDB can't find can't find where I called my self a mere plumber.....although its in their "findings".......pft lol...
Have a read of the pompous findings.....also bear in mind when the only charge they got me for......they told an elderly couple to just shut their window when they used the califont....you couldn't make this shit up eh?
But it is me who brings the trade in to disrepute and knows not my responsibility with regards to the certifying of work......why should I know my responsibilities PGDB ???? so you can misplace the f****ing cert after I certify the job......a tad hypocritical eh!
They claim not to have received the cert for the explosion......but its on their website.....and its me who does not know my responsibilities.......
Mentalists.....you are ruled by mentalists..... 8)
.
.
-
Here are where I said I was a mere plumber as per the legal representative of the PGDB.......please take it in context......
From: Melanie Phillips [mailto:melanie@pgdb.co.nz]
Sent: 19 July 2011 12:38 p.m.
To: Wal Gordon
Subject: RE: Paul Gee
Hi Wal
I can’t speak for the Board however, I understood that the phrase was not so much attributable to Mr Gee but rather an encapsulation of comments made by Mr Gee at the hearing (such as those at pages 353, 359, 396, & 404 of the transcript).
Again, this is only my inference and should be in no way taken as speaking for the Board. I would suggest you raise this issue specifically in your penalty submissions should you wish the Board to address this matter formally.
Regards
Mel
Melanie Phillips
Legal Advisor
Plumbers, Gasfitters and Drainlayers Board
Level 9, 70 The Terrace
P O Box 10655
from the transcript.......
Page 353
A. This says "Perhaps the signature's been forged". I mean I'm a plumber. I - procedures, all this sort of - pipes and fittings no problem. Q. Now just can you please go to paragraph 40 of your statement which is tab 15? You say there that - have you got that there? A. Yeah. Q. So, you recall asking about - A. Yeah, when you've had two years to lay awake every night really trying to rack your brains what happened, listening to your wife crying into her pillow because your business is going under because of letters that don't reflect the truth, you tend to think about stuff a lot, you recall stuff. Yeah. I do recall that. Q. You recall that - you say Mr Darnley pointed out the pipework box ticked? A. There was three of them at the table, you had Mavis, the daughter-in-law, Mr Darnley, I pointed out I said "why isn't there any appliances on this?" They said you're not putting appliances in. He said - he pointed at the pipe box and said "that's what you did isn't it?" Q. So you are saying that - A. This statement was written quite recently, after I'd had time to think about it. Q. Because this is the first time in this statement that you've ever mentioned that Mr Darnley said that to you, isn't it? A. Yeah. Yep. Q. Is there any reason why you wouldn't have mentioned that before? A. I haven't remembered it. Q. So at that time you say you asked, were you - did that mean that you particularly remembered that certificate? A. Look, I don't know even know if it was that particular certificate, but I definitely asked him at that time, "why is that thing empty, that appliance part empty?", because Mr Hammond referenced another one where it was filled in, but that wasn't my handwriting either. It -it was endemic there. Q. So after that did you believe it was acceptable practice because you'd just done - A. After that, what, a couple of weeks ago?
Page 359
A. No. Q. But you would have known that a customer would have been charged for you doing a gas certificate wouldn't you? A. Well I should imagine, but I didn't run the company. Q. So when you had completed the - installing the pipework and the bayonet fittings what do you think was going to happen then? A. I did as I was told. I was told to go and fit two bayonets in the fish and chip shop. I went and did it. Q. But you must have known that two Blue Seal 45 GT fryers were going to be installed? A. Might be a re-fit, they might be putting two points there that they might want to hook a fryer up to in six months time when the redevelop the thing into a Cafe. I'm just a fitter mate. Q. So you didn't even ask anyone at Allgas what was going in there? A. The boss says to you "go to a chip shop; fit two bayonets", you go and fit two bayonets to a chip shop. Especially when you're a fitter. It's what you do as a fitter. Q. I would just suggest that surely in that situation before you did your certification -- A. Yeah. Q. -- you would have wanted to check with the office to make sure that nothing else was being done so that you only had to certify once? A. No. I would have looked at the potential draw on those two bayonets. Roughly what would have normally gone in there, what they would have been and I would have allowed for that in the pipe size, that's why I took a 25 mm pipe, a 20 mm pipe and I took a 20 mm right up to the bayonets to give it the maximum - maximum amount of gas. Q. Now, is it your evidence that you never saw the gas fryers that were ultimately installed in it? A. Yep. Q. Even though you signed the certificate after they were installed? A. Yep. Yep because the test date is the 15th which is the day before the quote was issued, because I couldn't have seen the quote either.
Page 396
A. I hadn't. Q. -- bottles on - A. I hadn't. Q. So why weren't you saying that in your response that it had nothing to do with you? A. Because I thought Mr Hammond was coming from the point that the cylinders were left - this is how he worded it to me, the cylinders were left on a deck, that I had worked at the address and I had worked at the address and I had walked away from it and left them on the deck, that's what I thought he was saying. Q. Yeah but at the time you got the audit report and responded in this letter Mr Hammond hadn't interviewed you about Powick Street? A. Oh he talked to me - well I must have got it from somewhere, where did I get the advice from? Where - who said to me - when is this dated? Q. What date? A. Yes. Q. 15th of March 2010? A. Yeah. Basically I believed I was being accused of extending the pipe from the existing cylinders and leaving the cylinders on the deck. So I must have got that from somewhere. Q. Would you agree though that - you might disagree with this, but I'll put it to you so you've got a chance to explain because I think we're going to. That it is a safety concern to have LPG cylinders sitting on a combustible surface? A. That's yep that's why I didn't put them there. You're ignoring the evidence that the 24 was fitted after I was there. It was fitted to an extension where the cylinders are situated. Now we can talk about how I word things, how I speak, I'm a bloody plumber. I don't go to elocution lessons, I speak like I do. I am a common working man. I work with these (Indicates hand) not that (indicates mouth).
Page 404
MR PARKER: John, I'd just prefer that you ask Mr Gee to explain to you what happened, rather than perhaps you lead Mr Gee to what happened. So if you have he got an issue around ask him about the process, can we have Mr Gee explain to us the process? MR SIMMISS: Okay, except I am just trying it arrive at a certain point. MR PARKER: I am happy if you ask him parts about that, but I don't want us to be telling him what we think the answer is. MR SIMMISS: No that's fine. I'm not trying to do that, I'm trying to understand the series of events that happen in a work environment to understand how the process can come about, that's all. MR SIMMISS Q. So in reality there's a good possibility you don't visit jobs again after you've done a certain stage, it could have been given to somebody else in the company? A. Totally. Q. I think that probably ends up where I need to be. A. Can I just comment, I was more like the donkey work guy, you know, I'm a big fella, I'd be given stuff to carry, then they go round, turn the things on and say look it works, you know. Q. Without putting words in your mouth, I just wanted to end up with why there was so much different writing on gas certificates and who might have been filling them in under what process that's all. MS INESON
Q. Mr Gee my only question is more or less the same, I am trying to understand the process, and I notice on page 154 there is a quote for Milton Street and it's dated the 16th of June, that's tab 12, number 154, it's
Look at the findings and compare to my pages from the transcript.......do you think I said I was a mere plumber......or did I mean I was the employee not the boss......in context.......
When you got these professionals trying to understand us tradies you are misunderstood......or they just make shit up to discredit you......
Of note they even audited two jobs of most if not every fitter in my area and told them it was because I had complained about the standard of work in Nelson......when actually I had only complained about the work of one man.....the same man gifted his licence and didn't register the last cert for the work at the chipshop.....but a copy is on the PGDB electronic register........
Add this to the letter sent to the Motueka High school which even the PGDB agrees could have given the sites of all my charges that I was capable of acting illegally, before my hearing.......just a tad prejudiced these sites eh?
AND I STILL WENT 42 OUT OF 44 CHARGES INNOCENT.........its called character assassination.....
.
-
From the transcript, this is the fraud from the west coast with the serial number showed that the unit was being made in Japan when the PGDB claimed I installed it......
That's yep that's why I didn't put them there. You're ignoring the evidence that the 24 was fitted after I was there. It was fitted to an extension where the cylinders are situated. Now we can talk about how I word things, how I speak, I'm a bloody plumber. I don't go to elocution lessons, I speak like I do. I am a common working man. I work with these (Indicates hand) not that (indicates mouth).
Does this mean I think I am a mere plumber or just working class hard working tradesman, (indicates hands not mouth, ahahhaha)
-
Right guys I am going to describe each of the documents I have on file (not all because I have loads more in hard copy )
I am going to start from the first in a time line, first historically, they are on USB stick, P.M. your address to me and I will send to you a USB in the post (I have already distributed throughout some real good mates/relatives in places I have lived in, both ends of the world).
I got enough to go for one document a day for a year............(or might be more like one a week for seven years)
I am going to attach the document and then write a description of how it ties in to the case.......if you don't want to look at them.....don't look, blank me or delete me (or give me feed back, I welcome it).......but if you want me to show you how messed up this bullshit is.....have a read.......
Number one....... Bickers and Hammonds IPENZ license numbers.......
Look at the dates and the sequential numbers of their licenses.......do you think these guys might have known each other?
Keep this in mind.....
.
-
Bickers becomes PRESIDENT
-
Now when you call the investigator the "impartial" investigator.....you wouldn't expect him to be in groups with quite a few PGDB members on the panel for my hearing......
Mr Bickers is the guy who went in my local paper and slated me for my last charge out of 44.....over a 95% rate of innocence.......for a charge that the PGDB later told an elderly couple to "just close the window when you use the califont"
Bickers also charges quite a bit of money to run a course on the "professional witness" ....now that is either for professionals who appear as a witness, or maybe people who are making a living out of being a witness, either way you would have thought he was aware of the conflicts of interest......he was also the guy who gave up his post as the PGDB before his tenure was up.......Nick Smith also told me he was a very good friend of his..... well they are both long term members of IPENZ.....as was Hammond.....hmmmmmm interesting.....
Mr Alan Bickers (chairperson)
Mr Bickers is currently a Director of Catalyst Management Services offering management consultation services to public and private sector clients. He holds a Bachelor of Engineering (Civil) and is a Chartered Professional Engineer. He is an Associate of the Arbitrators and Mediators Institute NZ and a Justice of the Peace.
Mr Bickers has worked for four local authorities with the last position as Chief Executive of Tauranga City/District Council (1987-1995). Mr Bickers has served on the Standards Council of NZ (1993-1997), Bay of Plenty Health Board and on the board of Transit NZ (1997-2004) with the last three and a half years as Chair. He has spent the last two decades involved with the Institution of Professional Engineers NZ (including President 1991-1992) and is current chair of their Disciplinary Committee. Mr Bickers has been appointed for a three-year term.
When there is a conflict of interest, you should claim it and step down.......not close ranks and screw someone over.
.
-
So here we have the list of the connections that Hammond had back in the early 90's.....some 15 years before the explosion......
Look at who was president of what and know that NZIGE......is an arm of IPENZ.....
Oh and Hammond was also a PDGB board member too......just not seeing the "impartiality" here......
Hammond is the muppet who withheld photos that proved I was innocent, while he went about my life and ruined my business and his lawyer was responsible for sending the child sexual abuse case notes to my home, found by my wife, just as we lost our home.....lovely lovely people they are....scum.
-
Tony Hammond is the president of the Gas Association of NZ. ( GANZ )
This is circa early 90’s and has been involved with GANZ for 12 years already by then.....and was president for a two year term in Feb 1993. Developing standards (just like the one he protects at the hearing).
MIPENZ, NZIGE fellow……to be a fellow he must have been there a while too, and as a fellow not leaving anytime soon.
His mate Stephen Parker, later to chair my kangaroo court…….well he was involved in GANZ form 2000.
The explosion happened in 2009.....
-
Stephen is the National Manager of the Gas Association.
After a 22 year career in the Royal New Zealand Air Force as an Engineering Officer, in
1990 he spent a further four years as a Director of Capability Procurement for the Ministry of
Defence.
In 1995 he commenced a new career, joining the gas industry as the Associations Executive
Officer. Then, in August 1997, he was appointed the Association National Manager and
Secretary.
Stephen is also the Deputy Chairperson for the Gas& Petrochemical Industry Training
Organisation, Trustee of the Kennedy Educational Scholarship Trust, and the ICGTI National
Executive representative.
Now Stephanie here above claims not to know Hammond other than as a contractor to GANZ, he did this just before he was made the chair of my hearing, I will let you guys decide and only provide the facts.......but the Kennedy Trust they have both been very involved in.......just keep that one in your mind, the Kennedy Trust and the history of Hammond and that is only to this time in the early 90's.......explosion in 2009.....
-
This is from Hammonds report written after the explosion.......
Darnley gifted full craftsman licence in 98 after some years on an exemption (no apprenticeship).......what is omitted from this document is that it was Hammond who held this oral exam....I will show this in Hammonds own affidavit later on.....he didn't admit this until he was caught out and it was discovered that he was the guy to hold this oral exam.......
Darnley later faced a charge for the explosion.....but as we all know poof it disappeared, even though all if not most points to him or someone at Allgas (he was the only craftsman gasfitter there) and it was Darnley who sent out the carbon copies but didn't register the top pink copy of cert 345138 with the PGDB ......this is the PGDB version.....to the blast victims lawyer.....
But there is a copy of cert 345138 on the PGDB website......Ombudsman knows this too.....
According to Hammond only 10 people granted a license after an oral exam....Darnley one of them......
Of Note..... there is a guy who has good reason to believe that the one % he needs to pass his craftsman exam from the PGDB should be granted because the question was wrong in the exam......the PGDB have fought him tooth and nail not to grant his license.....I am told that this guy is correct, but the PGDB stubbornly refuse his license (oh he actually served an apprenticeship too)......it appears the only way to get the ticket gifted is to do oral with Hammond.....and be in his group.
-
2000...........Stephen Parker is most definitely in GANZ
-
Hammond represents GANZ writing NZS 5261: 2003...........have a gander inside the cover of this standard.....
This is the standard that states part one is mandatory and part two is a means of compliance.....Hammond enforced the part two Table 16, this is just a means of compliance and not mandatory.....
Of Note: This table 16 in NZS 5261 : 2003......take a look at a spa blower in reference to flue proximity.......
Spa "blower" is a misnomer really because it actually sucks from outside and blows to the inside, the blowing happens in the bath (perhaps this is where the oral exams happen).........
Why can the ingress/intake of a high powered vacuum pump/fan (the spec on these spa blower pumps/fans talk about meters cubed by the minute, pretty powerful) be nearer to a gas flue than a passive non sucking opening window ?
No one can answer me that? but I think it means that the non mandatory part two looks a little less concrete on its application and is (as everyone is told) just one way of doing it......apparently not according to Hammond, this table and his enforcing the non mandatory part two....well its the only reason I had that one last charge....
Basically I didn't go 100% innocent because of the opinion of one very conflicted man, old Hammy, the hearing shut down conveniently by Stephanie Parker, just as we were cross-examining Hammond about it.....Wal had Hammond by the balls and his buddy Parker came to his rescue.....it was awesome, the transcript doesn't show the squirming nor the broken voice, it was beautiful.
.
.
-
So Hammond represented GANZ on other standards too.....NZS 5263 and 5268.....all in 2003.
Remember the Kennedy Trust.....just keep that in you mind......Parker claims to know Hammond as a contractor, he even clarifies this in his statement for my hearing....
-
It about this time I make the biggest mistake of my life......I join Allgas....
This letter was so I could land a mortgage.....ironically the same mortgage that meant I couldn't just walk out of Allgas later on.
-
This is the job card and cert for Milton street......the site of the explosion.....
Some things about this........two different persons handwriting on it, according to one of the only handwriting experts in NZ the other hand is Darnley's.....or at least the same person who signs as John Darnley on other certificates.....mine is the first writing and for the pipe out only.
Different colour ink on certs.....as is present this one.......Hammond brought to interview photocopies of the pink top copies......he did with black ink photocopies done on pink paper......this hid the multitude of different colour inks used consistently throughout the certs he brought, some of which were obviously added after signature as witnessed by the carbon copy......we don't have this carbon copy any more....
Hammond also said to me in interview, that the system was too big to fail and that I should get my own house in order before I dobb people in.....
Well and I hope someone can pass this on to Tony Hammond.....Tony the cert system as you envisioned is totally f****ed and my house was in such order that even in a slanted biased hearing overseen by your mate that I went 95% innocent.
.
.
-
Tony gets an IPENZ award for his work in industry standards......
Tony is mentioned on most, if not all, industry standards I have seen he represents GANZ.
The same GANZ where Stephanie Parker is either National Manager or Executive Director, if Carl Jung's and Sigmund Freud's theories on size of manhood against a man's over compensation in title and size of car...... the title may depend on how small he felt his penis was at the time.....judging by the elaborate titles this tosser gives him self his penis might be shrinking over time.....because his titles get more grandiose as time goes on.....luckily we don't hear from him now, because he might have made himself his Excellency of the Imperial Empire of GANZ, whilst driving a small tank through the streets of Wellington. Cunt.
-
Tony Hammond MIPENZ. Tony has been a
"great ambassador for the Standards
development process" while working on
Standards for the gas industry. He is a
mechanical engineer and has worked in the gas
industry for more than 30 years, in New Zealand
and in the United Kingdom.
From the IPENZ newsletter, Hammond from what I have seen and take a look inside your standards represents GANZ in these standards remember he had 12 years of it by the early 90's paper he wrote on deregulation....the deregulation that brought in the self cert system.....
The same self cert system left wanting by Darnley either not registering the cert 345138 with the PGDB for the last work done a the site of the explosion (but a copy is on the PGDB elec cert register).......the same guy who Hammond gifted his full certifying gas license to.
Starting to see the conflicts of interest yet.......???
-
I had an altercation with the bosses son in law.....he wanted me to fit a water wizard to a spa.....even though it expressly told you not to in big effin letters on the box....I had been working there for about 9 months at the time, I was over it, but had a mortgage...just got married new house, money was tight.
This muppets reason for thinking he had the right to tell me this was a good idea, he had had the top boss of the manufactures at his house for a BBQ.....total idiot.
-
About this time I refused to sign any more certs and gave them back have a look at this one, attached, it is the first one of concern and one I started to complain about to the PGDB, as soon as I left Allgas.....hadn't left yet because I hadn't had my written warning yet....
-
You'll notice its a bad copy from the previous post, with no signature.........
Check out what the PGDB were not concerned with, attached.....as far as I know they accepted the cert with no signature at first but then accepted this mess attached afterwards....
-
Different colour ink, stuff crossed out......this is the cert I handed back because they had bypassed my fan switch fitted to a gas supply solenoid......so they couldn't run the quite large burners unless the fan was on.....providing air changes and extraction. I complained about this cert......if things had been fair and proper.....it could have stopped here.....
-
Any way I get a written warning from Allgas.....I told him on this day, upon receiving this warning that he could shove his job up his dodgy arse....look at the date.....
-
Darnley told Hammond for the report for kangaroo court hearing that I was drunk on the day of the incident with his son in law.....again slanting the perception of me......
But you will notice that in my written warning, no mention of me being pissed is even hinted at......even though he mentions Shell rules.....interesting really because being pissed at work is frowned upon by Shell.....and rightly so.....
It also don't mention that Darnley sent me to Blenheim just after I told his son in law he was an idiot.....not a good idea if I was drunk in anyway.....
It called character assassination....
-
So Darnley or someone in his office....his daughter (partner of the son in law) or his own wife, after being left totally aware of my plans to leave....unless he thought I could work out of his arse (because that's where I told him to shove the job).......
Well for the first time ever they order one book of certs.....no wait there we'll order another three books (not kidding look at the order form)......well they order 4 books in my name with out my knowledge.....
The certs in these books are SOME of the ones missing, can't be found by the PGDB and some lack the leak test results, all accepted by the PGDB as testified by their presence on the PGDB register.....as is the missing cert 345138 issued for the last work a the site of the blast victim.....
No one has a problem with this, not even the Ombudsman....
.
-
So I hand in my notice....the date is a bit wrong, but you can tell by the leaving date and work back two weeks, I wrote 12 instead of 11 for the date of the letter.
You see I am a bit dyslexic and paper work alien to me.....probably why I gravitated to the trades as a lot of us do.
I even got the letterhead of the paper it is written on upside down....lol.....talk about naďve......learnt a bit since then....
But take note of my last day early December 2003......
.
-
So I am out of there, hand my notice in and I leave Allgas just before Christmas 2003, and go take work as a contractor for another firm.....
One of the first jobs I was asked to go to was the Jam factory....I became aware of the unsigned cert.... a cert all in my name but with no signature, being passed around to cover work....dangerous unfinished and altered work....the PGDB knew it was being passed around this way.....as you will see....I complained about it to the PGDB, in 2003, the explosion 2009....
The really bad copy is the copy of the cert that was faxed by Allgas to the other gas supplier Rockgas, there is an Arthur he was the manager's name at top of fax see attached, it says registration Board copy....then look at what someone did to this cert for it to be accepted by the PGDB, also attached.......accepted after I complained, in 2003 explosion in 2009.....
.
-
Compare this cert to the faxed one.....all acceptable to the PGDB.....
-
Around this time certs were being issued, certs that later were claimed never to have been received by the PGDB.....quite a few......check these attachments for an example......remember the cert number.....it one of many......check the gas test for leaks field.......
-
So there is a copy of this cert on the PGDB website....there is a copy at the gas suppliers.....I know because that's where I photographed it........ Cert 299760......look at the test for leaks.......empty......
Just like the cert 345138 for the site of the near fatal explosion.........
I ask the PGDB about these matter straight away after leaving Allgas......remember the cert 299760....its mentioned in the reply I got......the batch of certs you will notice also mentioned in this reply isn't the ones ordered in my name either....
Here's some correspondence attached.....
-
About this time weeks after I left Allgas......someone at Allgas sold the third hose to supply two fryers......
THIS IS THE HOSE THAT CAUSED THE EXPLOSION......ALL KNOWN TO THE PGDB......
-
Now you have seen when I left Allgas......months before this letter attached......
Acting in my name with out my knowledge nor permission....THIS TOO IS KNOWN TO THE PGDB......I got this letter off the PGDB after the explosion.......and bear in mind I had already questioned certs in my name covering work not mine and dangerous.....and told them I had left Allgas.......
-
Just as a little interlude to the evidence here is a brief over view......
Cowboys and Idiots……A Cover Up.
I understand that the plumbing and gasfitting industry is considered by most as neither glamorous nor all that interesting and it isn’t ranked as “professional” by the so called professionals like lawyers, psychologists and engineers. These professionals by the way are usually the people who govern our trade and who from my experience show a total disregard and utter disrespect towards us.
Like most essential everyday things that are integral to our lives plumbing, gas and drainlaying is hidden, nondescript and plain. It happens behind walls, under houses and in the ground.
The Gas industry is working today under a gas certificate system during a housing shortage of 60,000 houses that is not only susceptible to cause accidents and empower cowboys but I believe it is actually prone to it.
At one time we had independent of the trade, an inspected gas safety system; with inspectors that were financed by the gas supply companies. It was in the company’s interest to get it right because the liability lay with those selling the gas, reinvesting their profits in the common good and safety of the public.
In the early 90’s the rampant ideology and dogma of deregulation came along, putting profit before safety. Doing away with inspectors and putting those making a profit from installing gas in control of quality and safety, whilst weighing this up against their profit margin.
Most are honest and are observing the proper procedures and standards, but apparently there are those that do not. I am told some of the worst that aren’t observing are the ones with “connections”, acting with impunity because they can and have in the past and will until they stop getting away with it.
Within the gasfitting industry this deregulation introduced a self certificate system, with certificates sold by batches identified by a unique cert number sold only to a specific licence holder.
These unique certs had a triple carbon copy of the original handwritten top copy; this top copy was then held by the PGDB. With the subsequent carbon copy then held by the gas supplier, the gasfitter and the customer.
These four independent document depositories was an effective honesty mechanism with a handwritten checkable way of filling the cert in, with a real signature done by hand. This has all gone now.
The onus was moved to the fitter, you might say “as it should”. But now we had the problem of those making a financial gain from the installation of gas, inspecting their own work, with random audits by the PGDB. But even these audits and this more robust self cert system has since proved to be untenable and has ceased.
This system made the installer liable for the install, freeing the gas company’s to sell a volatile flammable gas with a very much reduced liability.
GANZ represents the suppliers of gas. GANZ via the so called “impartial” inspector for my case lobbied for this deregulation. Impartial he was not. GANZ was also the group that the chair of my hearing was a member. These two people represented GANZ for many years as a double act at seminars and trade shows.
I give you this background to give you an idea of the conflicts of interest involved in my case.
The cover up started with an explosion, which resulted in two families lives being wrecked (mine and the owner of the exploding chipshop) with this poor blast victim laying in a drug induced coma for weeks in a burns unit. The cover up started while he lay in this coma, covered up by the PGDB.
I began working for a gas company called Allgas in February 2003, situated in Nelson.
Nelson being the long term electorate of Nick Smith, the now Building and Housing Minister, with the PGDB under his portfolio. He had other portfolios at the start of this fiasco and moved into this position after the explosion.
I left this employment at Allgas after only approx 9 months after seeing a total disregard for the safety of their customers and left because of these safety concerns.
The day after I told my old boss to shove his job where the sun doesn’t shine, four books of gas safety certificates (certs) were ordered in my name with out my knowledge. I found out after the explosion that also a letter was written, again acting in my name without my knowledge to alter a cert months after I had left.
Literally as soon as I left Allgas I started work for another gas supplier and instantly became aware of dodgy certs in my name, covering dangerous altered work.
I began complaining to the PGDB from this time on in late 2003. I also made my concerns known to industry groups (I was the Nelson Master Plumber President and brought it up at meetings) and MPs (Nick Smith included).
Nothing other than flannel was done. The explosion happened in 2009.
At one point in 2006 Nick Smith wrote a letter on my behalf airing my concerns to the PGDB, he even backed me calling for a public inquiry in his other letters after the explosion, even right up to my hearing in May 2011.
But the month following my hearing (after placing his “very good friend” on the PGDB), Nick totally changed his tact to a “nothing to see here” attitude, even when he now had the portfolio under which all this fiasco comes. Nicks “very good friend” did not see out his tenure as PGDB Chairman and resigned for personal reasons later on, resigning after my hearing and after he slated me in my local Newspaper.
My old boss was installing gas in homes and businesses in Nelson for well over 10 years very probably nearer 20 years, he was totally clueless and I think an MP owes it to his electorate to look into this to ensure those that vote him in are kept safe.
The people of Nelson thought they were dealing with a fully qualified craftsman gas fitter who was a member of the gas engineers group NZIGE, when in reality he had never sat an apprenticeship and was totally inept. He resigned from NZIGE in May 2009 just weeks after the April explosion.
My old boss’s attitude to safety can be summed up in the comment that added to my leaving Allgas. He told me to “just use a poker face and make out you know what you’re was doing”.
He said this when I asked for an appliance specification data sheet. I asked for this specification as I saw him installing central heating in a house where the radiator water comes out of the hot water system, and as far as I am aware it still does.
The chip shop exploded on 9th April 2009, at 09:40 approx in the morning, either side of this time the chipshop and adjoining dairy would have been surrounded by kids on the way to school or full of people buying smoko. It had a butcher’s shop full length plate glass windows as a shop front. The blast shot this glass out like a shotgun. The thought of what could have happened still gives me nightmares.
As the blast victim lay in a coma in intensive care, the telling of ridiculous untruths began and a scapegoat was sort after.
The PGDB told the blast victim’s lawyer that the original top copy of the certificate for the last work done at the site of the explosion (totally in the name of my old boss and issued years after I left Allgas) could not be produced as this cert was never received by the PGDB.
This claim of non registration is very hard to believe as this “un-registered” cert appears on the PGDB website and the PGDB even have a date of entry for this cert from their fox-pro data system, this system cost 600k and is now defunct.
This cert is also mentioned by number in the Dept. of Labour complaint with all available carbon copies showing the lack of recording of a pressure test for leaks, the test for leaks field is empty on all carbon copies, the original top copy can’t be found.
My old boss is the person totally responsible for this cert for the last gas work at the site of the explosion. Even by the PGDB’s own reckoning he fails to register this incomplete cert with the PGDB, but issues the carbon copies to their respective places.
This non registration, if it were true, is enough to lay charges and pursue my old boss. And as I had spent the previous 6 years warning specifically about my old boss and his dodgy dealings with certs the PGDB should not have targeted me.
The same guy (my old boss) who is responsible for the “non registered” and incomplete cert nearly burnt down a house just over a year before the explosion and anonymously appears in the government accident book. Here are the comments.
Date: 27/12/2007
Location: Nelson
Equipment: Water heater
Accident type: Fire
Losses: A house was rendered uninhabitable due to fire and smoke damage. A water heater was destroyed.
Summary of events: Pipework in a gas installation had been pressure tested but appliances had not been commissioned. The owner received permission from the installer to turn on the gas and use it (the installer was to commission the next day). Due to a leaking fitting, fire ignited in an external instantaneous water heater mounted in a recess box. Heat from the gas fire ignited the soffit above and the fire spread into the ceiling space.
Suspected causes and significant factors: The appliance had not been commissioned and gas leaked from a loose fitting. Gas built up in the recess box and was ignited, probably from use of the water heater.
My old boss actually did face a charge for the explosion, but it conveniently disappeared before his hearing. I believe this doubling up of charges was done because if the PGDB ensured we both faced a charge for the same explosion, we would had to have separate hearings (they actually made this statement)…..this prevented us from cross examining my old boss at a common hearing.
I was chosen for the role of scapegoat in a witch-hunt that saw my young family terrorised and we were financially forced to sell our recently renovated home, loosing our business and reputation. This forced my wife to live in a caravan for a whole winter collecting drinking water and emptying a chemical toilet at the local i-site, while I worked away in the North Island for that winter, the first of many. Before the explosion we had very little debt, only what we owed at the plumbers merchants. We were mortgage free and owned all our vehicles and tools.
One of the worst things that happened to us was the sending of case notes on probabilities in a law court, sent in an unmarked wrapper of its vile content. The three cases chosen and were all sexually deviant but the worst were the child sexual abuse case notes. I came home to find my wife hysterical, she had read them and not long after this she had to live in the caravan while I worked away.
I have either worked away within my trade or worked locally out of my trade since, my reputation being ruined and all my money tied up in an almost derelict shack of a house which I can’t sell, but we live in.
My old boss, the person I was complaining about for about 6 years before the explosion was gifted his full license by the PGDB after one oral exam, basically a chat. This saw him rise from a guy working under an exemption license to a full certifying craftsman license. This enabled him to sign off any gas work. He had served no apprenticeship whatsoever and was only a gas salesman, not even a plumber, which ran a gas company, i.e. Allgas. He was willing (and this is also known to the PGDB) to sign off anyone, even the untrained and unqualified.
The PGDB then appointed as investigator to investigate the explosion and both my old boss and me, the very same person who held that one oral exam and gifted the full certifying craftsman gas license to my old boss.
The investigator then audited me and when I explained that initial audit and answered all his concerns, questions and potential charges, he re-audited me a second time. I have actually got a PGDB letter that the PGDB audited three full years of my work, but the PGDB publically claim to have only done a sample of 10% of my work.
Basically the investigator kept going until he found something he thought he could pin on me.
When I answered these later set of second charges before the hearing, he amended 50% of these charges and also laid several charges for each of the sites. This is how he managed to get 44 charges out of just seven sites. The charges were stepped in severity and he tried to get the most severe charges to stick first, then worked his way down.
Well before the hearing the PGDB sent untrue letters to all the additional sites to the explosion that charges were laid. The letters told the untruth that I was issuing illegal certs in the North Island, in places I have never even visited. I am not allowed to call them lies.
The PGDB agree in their later apology, issued well after my hearing, that these letters could have given the impression that I was willing to act illegally, basically in their own words prejudicing every site additional to the explosion that I was willing to act illegally when it came to issuing gas certs.
One of the untrue letters, the one sent to the local high school, killed my business and reputation. I was abused on worksites by other tradesman, (when I could actually get work).
Interestingly the totally unrelated reason for these untrue PGDB letters were the problems found when someone in the North Island sold 560 certs. He sold them blank except for his signature….someone involved in this has his case still before the PGDB.
Sixteen of the sites of these blank certs were potentially lethal and 90% were non compliant.
The guy responsible for these certs was still granted a license for some time afterwards, until he retired…..then the PGDB granted his son a full certifying license…..in the same manner as my old boss, same gas group memberships and AFTER the explosion….the PGDB had learnt nothing.
I paid a lawyer to act for me and turned down name suppression; the lawyer took well in excess of $10K off me….. then told me to plead guilty.
After ceasing the use of this lawyer’s services, I met Wal Gordon of the Plumber’s Federation he has been a huge help to not just me but to the industry as a whole.
We requested an impartiality hearing before the actual hearing because there were blatant conflicts of interest. The PGDB then went on to decide that they themselves were impartial, which is impossible.
You can not decide yourself, if you yourself, are impartial. Apart from being really bad grammar the decision alone makes you a party to the proceedings, not to mention all the obvious relationships and groups they all belonged to and happily ignored.
This so called impartial investigator went on to present his “findings” at a hearing which was chaired and over seen by his very long term colleague of at least 16 years. This very well known colleague then shut down the hearing as we were cross examining the investigator about the details of the last charge and I was about to go 100% innocent. I answered 42 out of 44 trumped up charges, the only charge to stick was to be frank total bullshit, but they slated me in the local paper anyway.
Of note: Some time later, about 18 months after my hearing the PGDB ignored the complaints of an elderly couple for the very same issue but in a much worse situation. They actually complained about fumes entering their home (my customer was happy with my installation and had never smelt fumes). The PGDB told them to close the window when they use their califont.
Also my hearing showed a certificate manipulation perhaps a fraud on the West Coast unconnected to Allgas and Nelson, this still goes unaddressed.
No one has been held responsible for the explosion, nor any of the sites of the other charges, nor the potential fraud on the West Coast, all of which I was found innocent of and nothing has been rectified.
So, apart from the explosion, you got to ask how dangerous was it all? Apparently it was dangerous enough to ruin me over, but not so dangerous as to allow them to ignore it if the PGDB couldn’t pin it on me.
The hearing was a sham with the investigator not divulging over 100 photos, withholding them for two years that proved what I had said from day one, that the pipe was lowered and altered from my original installation.
These withheld photos only came to light after cross examining the police forensic expert at the hearing. He had taken the photos the day after the explosion and made them available to the investigator, but the investigator only requested a small number of the photos to support his investigators’ report.
In these withheld photos you could see the original screw holes in the wall and the pipe was running down hill. Add these withheld photos to the Allgas receipt for the other gas hose sold weeks after I left Allgas. This is the hose that caused the explosion; the hose was replaced as it had split before, due to this lowering of the pipework. This is all known to the PGDB, MP’s and the Ombudsman.
The investigator and the chair of my hearing and my old boss were all part of GANZ, (and NZIGE and other gas groups).
Remember that GANZ was the gas group that openly lobbied for deregulation and the self cert system, a system shown by the explosion to have failed. Actually the investigator wrote papers about deregulation lobbying for it, now add that to the investigator’s issuing of a full certifying license to my old boss, he was not impartial.
As part of my “rehabilitation” after the hearing I was ordered by the PGDB to do a course of instruction to uplift my license, the course didn’t exist so I was assessed. I was told by the assessor that I would be in the top 10% of gasfitters the assessor had assessed, I had not been taught anything, just assessed.
The question is……
How would the PGDB look if someone not time served and unqualified, who the PGDB had flippantly granted a full certifying gas license to and gifted credentials to empowering them to sign off gas work, who then went on to issue a gas cert for the last work at the site of an explosion caused by a gas leak, with the top original copy (which was accepted by the PGDB) was lacking any recording of a test for gas leaks?
I think the PGDB would look pretty bad (and apparently so do the PGDB)….the cover-up shows their attitude to the trade and the public’s safety….they are bound to continue this cover-up.
We now are left with the present gas “safety” cert system that has devolved even more to all new gas work being classed as low risk in a housing shortage of 60,000 homes. As all this new gas work is deemed low risk it is not required to be registered with neither the ESS nor any other government agencies, it has no hand written signed copies back up with a carbon copy honesty mechanism.
Also the PGDB I am told are still handing out gasfitting licenses to those that are deemed “acceptable” to the PGDB, but are withholding licenses to people much more deserving.
The Ombudsman being the office for Fairness for “All”, up to and including the Chief Ombudsman is happy with all of this and the Ombudsman’s “quick” response team took many years to tell me of this happiness.
There is so much more to this but believe it or not I am trying to keep it brief. I lost everything and my old boss who had just retired before the explosion sits back in his house by the beach.
And it is us lowly tradesmen that are not classed as professional….by these professionals.
-
I had some feed back from a newspaper about the length of my story.....so I edited it down to power points.....
I try, probably because its very personal and I don't lie, to explain every point and justify/prove it (which I can)....
This could be you......
Cowboys and Idiots……A Cover Up.
The Gas industry is working today under a gas safety certificate system during a housing shortage of 60,000 houses that is not only susceptible to cause accidents and empower cowboys but I believe it is actually prone to it.
I began working for a gas company called Allgas in February 2003 in Nelson.
I left Allgas after approx 9 months after seeing a total disregard for the safety and left because of these safety concerns.
The day after I told my old boss I was leaving, four books of gas safety certificates (certs) were ordered in my name, with out my knowledge. I later found out after the explosion a letter was written acting in my name without my knowledge to alter a cert months after I had left.
I started work for another gas supplier and instantly became aware of dodgy certs in my name, covering dangerous, altered work.
I began complaining to the PGDB from this time in late 2003. Nothing was done. The explosion happened in 2009.
My old boss was installing gas in homes and businesses in Nelson for well over 10 years, probably nearer 20 years.
People thought they were dealing with a fully qualified craftsman gas fitter and a member of NZIGE….. but he had never sat an apprenticeship.
The chip shop exploded on 9th April 2009, at 09:40 approx in the morning, either side of this time the chipshop and adjoining dairy would have been surrounded by kids on the way to school or full of people buying smoko.
As the blast victim lay in a coma in intensive care the PGDB told the blast victim’s lawyer that the cert for the last work done at the site of the explosion was never received by the PGDB.
Interestingly this “non registered” cert appears on the PGDB website and is mentioned by unique cert number in the Dept. of Labour complaint. All available carbon copies lack recording of a pressure test for gas leaks.
I had spent the previous 6 years warning specifically about my old boss and his dodgy dealings with certs but PGDB targeted me.
My old boss did face a charge for the explosion, but it conveniently disappeared before his hearing.
My family were terrorised, financially forced to sell our home, lost our business and reputation. My wife had to live in a caravan collecting drinking water and emptying a chemical toilet at the local i-site while I worked away in the North Island.
The worst thing that happened was the sending of case notes on probabilities in a law court, sent in an unmarked wrapper of its vile content. The three cases chosen and were all sexually deviant but the worst were the child sexual abuse case notes.
My old boss, the person I had complained about for about 6 years before the explosion was gifted his full license by the PGDB after one oral exam, basically a chat.
The PGDB then appointed as investigator to investigate the explosion the very same person who held that one oral exam.
The investigator then audited me….. twice. I have a PGDB letter that the PGDB audited three full years of my work, the PGDB publically claim a sample of 10%.
The investigator kept going until he found something he thought he could pin on me and then he amended 50% of these charges weeks before the hearing.
The PGDB sent untrue letters prejudicing every site additional to the explosion that I was willing to act illegally when it came to issuing gas certs; the letter sent to the local high school killed my business and reputation. I was abused on worksites by other tradesman.
The actual reason for these untrue PGDB letters was unrelated because someone in the North Island sold 560 certs blank but for his signature….someone involved in this has his case still before the PGDB.
Sixteen of the sites of these blank certs were potentially lethal and 90% were non compliant.
I paid a lawyer to act for me in excess of $10K, he told me to plead guilty to the 44 charges.
I stopped using this lawyer and met Wal Gordon from the Plumber’s Federation.
The hearing was chaired by the investigators long term colleague, he shut down the hearing as we were cross examining the investigator, preventing me going 100% innocent.
Also my hearing showed an unconnected certificate manipulation/potential fraud on the West Coast, this still goes unaddressed.
No one has been held responsible for the explosion, any of the sites of the other charges or the potential fraud on the West Coast.
The hearing was a sham with the investigator withholding over 100 photos.
In these withheld photos you could see the original screw holes in the wall and the pipe was running down hill, just as I had maintained for 2 years. Also an extra gas hose was sold, after I left Allgas. This is the hose that caused the explosion.
I faced 44 charges, disproved 42, but the PGDB continued to slate me in the local newspaper.
Think on this…..
How would the PGDB look if they flippantly granted a full certifying gas license and gifted credentials to an unqualified person, empowering him to sign off gas work? Who then went on to issue a gas cert for the last work at the site of an explosion caused by a gas leak that was lacking any recording of a test for gas leaks? But it was accepted incomplete by the PGDB after they ignored my warnings?
We now are left with a far worse system with all new gas work being classed as low risk in a housing shortage of 60,000 homes.
The Ombudsman’s Office of Fairness for All isn’t concerned…..his quick response team taking many years to tell me of his happiness.
I lost everything and my old boss retired in his house by the beach.
-
When will they promote a safe awareness campaign, the explosions do more to stop gas sales than honesty....I found this article on newshub......
My case could have been used as a warning ..... IF YOU f****ING SMELL GAS, TURN THE f****ING GAS OFF AND CALL A SPECIALIST.......the fire brigade are busy enough and most will be small problems that can be fixed......this by the way was once the duty of the gas companies to trace and repair gas leaks......
the gas companies need to tell everyone if you smell gas.....she will not be f****ing right, she could well possibly level your house and lay you in a burns unit.....for f****s sake....
Read the press release below.....turn off the gas after every time you use your gas? really ....... what if the cooker (which have been allowed to be sold with no flame failure device) is on, you turn off the gas and extinguish the flame, then reinstate the gas flow.....with no flame......just raw gas........muppets
And apparently you can check with soupy water for leaks.......do you use oxtail or chicken and f****in leek with bastard croutons..........these wankers need to up their game, you can't blame the reporters.....where are they getting their info from?????
See below.....
A gas leak was to blame for a fire that caused a loud explosion and engulfed a house in flames in the Auckland on Tuesday.
An LPG gas leak occurred around an oven at the destroyed property in New Windsor, and the gas ignited when a light switch was turned on.
Fire and Emergency New Zealand officer Jason Goffin said the explosion that neighbours heard at about 6:00am would have been caused by the gas igniting.
Several houses in the area were evacuated as a precaution. A woman was taken to Middlemore Hospital in a serious condition and a man was taken to Auckland Hospital with moderate injuries.
Fire and Emergency New Zealand's advice on gas bottles safety:
Regularly check and maintain any gas fittings and connections
Make sure the cylinder is turned off when you're finished using it
Have all gas appliances serviced according to the manufacturers instructions
Check you connections for leaks by pouring soupy solution over the valve, if any bubbles are created you may have a gas leak
If you smell gas, get out of the house and call 111
Newshub.
-
Soupy solution......looking for leeks are they welsh beauties of leeks with a onion cousin......it would be hysterical if it wasn't so f****ing sad for the level of ignorance......
-
IF you have bubbles, you may have a leek......what in the soupy water?.....perhaps its simmering......
No....if you have bubbles, which are bubbling up through the soapy solution....you most definitely got a leak.....
Did they get this advice off master chef.......
-
Does any one here think its a good idea to turn off the gas on an LPG twin pack system after you have finished with it.......
So you have a shower and run outside and turn off the cylinder, then pop out there and turn it back on to fry your breakfast? A tested safe system is best left live, until you smell or suspect otherwise.....then you turn it off and phone a gasfitter to test it......you know a real gasfitter who hasn't been gifted his license after a chat....
When will we all communicate and talk to each other, the fire dept, the gas companies, the public, the Board......unless they already are and haven't a clue.....
Everyone needs to share the knowledge and replace the ambulance (hearse really) at the bottom of the cliff....with an open book at the top of the cliff that everyone can read and understand.....
It ain't rocket science....well it is if we keep on the way were going because people are going in to orbit, via explosions.....
.
-
We have a housing shortage of 60,000 homes.......all new work is low risk........is this explosion all new work?
I do wonder if all the work here in this recent explosion was all new work......can we check the register, no we can't if its all new......
If this is all new work, we should ask the poor lady in a burns unit if she thinks it is "low risk".........
I wonder if they will make more of the warnings about ignoring the smell of gas or totally ignore this chance to educate people and look for a scapegoat.....just as they did to me......
-
So the Ombudsman is happy with how I was treated see below..............I have met others now who have similar stories, it is so wrong
Have a read of this guys story.....then compare to mine....
http://newzealandjusticeandpolitics.weebly.com/
Cowboys and Idiots……A Cover Up.
I understand that the plumbing and gasfitting industry is considered by most as neither glamorous nor all that interesting and it isn’t ranked as “professional” by the so called professionals like lawyers, psychologists and engineers. These professionals by the way are usually the people who govern our trade and who from my experience show a total disregard and utter disrespect towards us.
Like most essential everyday things that are integral to our lives plumbing, gas and drainlaying is hidden, nondescript and plain. It happens behind walls, under houses and in the ground.
The Gas industry is working today under a gas certificate system during a housing shortage of 60,000 houses that is not only susceptible to cause accidents and empower cowboys but I believe it is actually prone to it.
At one time we had independent of the trade, an inspected gas safety system; with inspectors that were financed by the gas supply companies. It was in the company’s interest to get it right because the liability lay with those selling the gas, reinvesting their profits in the common good and safety of the public.
In the early 90’s the rampant ideology and dogma of deregulation came along, putting profit before safety. Doing away with inspectors and putting those making a profit from installing gas in control of quality and safety, whilst weighing this up against their profit margin.
Most are honest and are observing the proper procedures and standards, but apparently there are those that do not. I am told some of the worst that aren’t observing are the ones with “connections”, acting with impunity because they can and have in the past and will until they stop getting away with it.
Within the gasfitting industry this deregulation introduced a self certificate system, with certificates sold by batches identified by a unique cert number sold only to a specific licence holder.
These unique certs had a triple carbon copy of the original handwritten top copy; this top copy was then held by the PGDB. With the subsequent carbon copy then held by the gas supplier, the gasfitter and the customer.
These four independent document depositories was an effective honesty mechanism with a handwritten checkable way of filling the cert in, with a real signature done by hand. This has all gone now.
The onus was moved to the fitter, you might say “as it should”. But now we had the problem of those making a financial gain from the installation of gas, inspecting their own work, with random audits by the PGDB. But even these audits and this more robust self cert system has since proved to be untenable and has ceased.
This system made the installer liable for the install, freeing the gas company’s to sell a volatile flammable gas with a very much reduced liability.
GANZ represents the suppliers of gas. GANZ via the so called “impartial” inspector for my case lobbied for this deregulation. Impartial he was not. GANZ was also the group that the chair of my hearing was a member. These two people represented GANZ for many years as a double act at seminars and trade shows.
I give you this background to give you an idea of the conflicts of interest involved in my case.
The cover up started with an explosion, which resulted in two families lives being wrecked (mine and the owner of the exploding chipshop) with this poor blast victim laying in a drug induced coma for weeks in a burns unit. The cover up started while he lay in this coma, covered up by the PGDB.
I began working for a gas company called Allgas in February 2003, situated in Nelson.
Nelson being the long term electorate of Nick Smith, the now Building and Housing Minister, with the PGDB under his portfolio. He had other portfolios at the start of this fiasco and moved into this position after the explosion.
I left this employment at Allgas after only approx 9 months after seeing a total disregard for the safety of their customers and left because of these safety concerns.
The day after I told my old boss to shove his job where the sun doesn’t shine, four books of gas safety certificates (certs) were ordered in my name with out my knowledge. I found out after the explosion that also a letter was written, again acting in my name without my knowledge to alter a cert months after I had left.
Literally as soon as I left Allgas I started work for another gas supplier and instantly became aware of dodgy certs in my name, covering dangerous altered work.
I began complaining to the PGDB from this time on in late 2003. I also made my concerns known to industry groups (I was the Nelson Master Plumber President and brought it up at meetings) and MPs (Nick Smith included).
Nothing other than flannel was done. The explosion happened in 2009.
At one point in 2006 Nick Smith wrote a letter on my behalf airing my concerns to the PGDB, he even backed me calling for a public inquiry in his other letters after the explosion, even right up to my hearing in May 2011.
But the month following my hearing (after placing his “very good friend” on the PGDB), Nick totally changed his tact to a “nothing to see here” attitude, even when he now had the portfolio under which all this fiasco comes. Nicks “very good friend” did not see out his tenure as PGDB Chairman and resigned for personal reasons later on, resigning after my hearing and after he slated me in my local Newspaper.
My old boss was installing gas in homes and businesses in Nelson for well over 10 years very probably nearer 20 years, he was totally clueless and I think an MP owes it to his electorate to look into this to ensure those that vote him in are kept safe.
The people of Nelson thought they were dealing with a fully qualified craftsman gas fitter who was a member of the gas engineers group NZIGE, when in reality he had never sat an apprenticeship and was totally inept. He resigned from NZIGE in May 2009 just weeks after the April explosion.
My old boss’s attitude to safety can be summed up in the comment that added to my leaving Allgas. He told me to “just use a poker face and make out you know what you’re was doing”.
He said this when I asked for an appliance specification data sheet. I asked for this specification as I saw him installing central heating in a house where the radiator water comes out of the hot water system, and as far as I am aware it still does.
The chip shop exploded on 9th April 2009, at 09:40 approx in the morning, either side of this time the chipshop and adjoining dairy would have been surrounded by kids on the way to school or full of people buying smoko. It had a butcher’s shop full length plate glass windows as a shop front. The blast shot this glass out like a shotgun. The thought of what could have happened still gives me nightmares.
As the blast victim lay in a coma in intensive care, the telling of ridiculous untruths began and a scapegoat was sort after.
The PGDB told the blast victim’s lawyer that the original top copy of the certificate for the last work done at the site of the explosion (totally in the name of my old boss and issued years after I left Allgas) could not be produced as this cert was never received by the PGDB.
This claim of non registration is very hard to believe as this “un-registered” cert appears on the PGDB website and the PGDB even have a date of entry for this cert from their fox-pro data system, this system cost 600k and is now defunct.
This cert is also mentioned by number in the Dept. of Labour complaint with all available carbon copies showing the lack of recording of a pressure test for leaks, the test for leaks field is empty on all carbon copies, the original top copy can’t be found.
My old boss is the person totally responsible for this cert for the last gas work at the site of the explosion. Even by the PGDB’s own reckoning he fails to register this incomplete cert with the PGDB, but issues the carbon copies to their respective places.
This non registration, if it were true, is enough to lay charges and pursue my old boss. And as I had spent the previous 6 years warning specifically about my old boss and his dodgy dealings with certs the PGDB should not have targeted me.
The same guy (my old boss) who is responsible for the “non registered” and incomplete cert nearly burnt down a house just over a year before the explosion and anonymously appears in the government accident book. Here are the comments.
Date: 27/12/2007
Location: Nelson
Equipment: Water heater
Accident type: Fire
Losses: A house was rendered uninhabitable due to fire and smoke damage. A water heater was destroyed.
Summary of events: Pipework in a gas installation had been pressure tested but appliances had not been commissioned. The owner received permission from the installer to turn on the gas and use it (the installer was to commission the next day). Due to a leaking fitting, fire ignited in an external instantaneous water heater mounted in a recess box. Heat from the gas fire ignited the soffit above and the fire spread into the ceiling space.
Suspected causes and significant factors: The appliance had not been commissioned and gas leaked from a loose fitting. Gas built up in the recess box and was ignited, probably from use of the water heater.
My old boss actually did face a charge for the explosion, but it conveniently disappeared before his hearing. I believe this doubling up of charges was done because if the PGDB ensured we both faced a charge for the same explosion, we would had to have separate hearings (they actually made this statement)…..this prevented us from cross examining my old boss at a common hearing.
I was chosen for the role of scapegoat in a witch-hunt that saw my young family terrorised and we were financially forced to sell our recently renovated home, loosing our business and reputation. This forced my wife to live in a caravan for a whole winter collecting drinking water and emptying a chemical toilet at the local i-site, while I worked away in the North Island for that winter, the first of many. Before the explosion we had very little debt, only what we owed at the plumbers merchants. We were mortgage free and owned all our vehicles and tools.
One of the worst things that happened to us was the sending of case notes on probabilities in a law court, sent in an unmarked wrapper of its vile content. The three cases chosen and were all sexually deviant but the worst were the child sexual abuse case notes. I came home to find my wife hysterical, she had read them and not long after this she had to live in the caravan while I worked away.
I have either worked away within my trade or worked locally out of my trade since, my reputation being ruined and all my money tied up in an almost derelict shack of a house which I can’t sell, but we live in.
My old boss, the person I was complaining about for about 6 years before the explosion was gifted his full license by the PGDB after one oral exam, basically a chat. This saw him rise from a guy working under an exemption license to a full certifying craftsman license. This enabled him to sign off any gas work. He had served no apprenticeship whatsoever and was only a gas salesman, not even a plumber, which ran a gas company, i.e. Allgas. He was willing (and this is also known to the PGDB) to sign off anyone, even the untrained and unqualified.
The PGDB then appointed as investigator to investigate the explosion and both my old boss and me, the very same person who held that one oral exam and gifted the full certifying craftsman gas license to my old boss.
The investigator then audited me and when I explained that initial audit and answered all his concerns, questions and potential charges, he re-audited me a second time. I have actually got a PGDB letter that the PGDB audited three full years of my work, but the PGDB publically claim to have only done a sample of 10% of my work.
Basically the investigator kept going until he found something he thought he could pin on me.
When I answered these later set of second charges before the hearing, he amended 50% of these charges and also laid several charges for each of the sites. This is how he managed to get 44 charges out of just seven sites. The charges were stepped in severity and he tried to get the most severe charges to stick first, then worked his way down.
Well before the hearing the PGDB sent untrue letters to all the additional sites to the explosion that charges were laid. The letters told the untruth that I was issuing illegal certs in the North Island, in places I have never even visited. I am not allowed to call them lies.
The PGDB agree in their later apology, issued well after my hearing, that these letters could have given the impression that I was willing to act illegally, basically in their own words prejudicing every site additional to the explosion that I was willing to act illegally when it came to issuing gas certs.
One of the untrue letters, the one sent to the local high school, killed my business and reputation. I was abused on worksites by other tradesman, (when I could actually get work).
Interestingly the totally unrelated reason for these untrue PGDB letters were the problems found when someone in the North Island sold 560 certs. He sold them blank except for his signature….someone involved in this has his case still before the PGDB.
Sixteen of the sites of these blank certs were potentially lethal and 90% were non compliant.
The guy responsible for these certs was still granted a license for some time afterwards, until he retired…..then the PGDB granted his son a full certifying license…..in the same manner as my old boss, same gas group memberships and AFTER the explosion….the PGDB had learnt nothing.
I paid a lawyer to act for me and turned down name suppression; the lawyer took well in excess of $10K off me….. then told me to plead guilty.
After ceasing the use of this lawyer’s services, I met Wal Gordon of the Plumber’s Federation he has been a huge help to not just me but to the industry as a whole.
We requested an impartiality hearing before the actual hearing because there were blatant conflicts of interest. The PGDB then went on to decide that they themselves were impartial, which is impossible.
You can not decide yourself, if you yourself, are impartial. Apart from being really bad grammar the decision alone makes you a party to the proceedings, not to mention all the obvious relationships and groups they all belonged to and happily ignored.
This so called impartial investigator went on to present his “findings” at a hearing which was chaired and over seen by his very long term colleague of at least 16 years. This very well known colleague then shut down the hearing as we were cross examining the investigator about the details of the last charge and I was about to go 100% innocent. I answered 42 out of 44 trumped up charges, the only charge to stick was to be frank total bullshit, but they slated me in the local paper anyway.
Of note: Some time later, about 18 months after my hearing the PGDB ignored the complaints of an elderly couple for the very same issue but in a much worse situation. They actually complained about fumes entering their home (my customer was happy with my installation and had never smelt fumes). The PGDB told them to close the window when they use their califont.
Also my hearing showed a certificate manipulation perhaps a fraud on the West Coast unconnected to Allgas and Nelson, this still goes unaddressed.
No one has been held responsible for the explosion, nor any of the sites of the other charges, nor the potential fraud on the West Coast, all of which I was found innocent of and nothing has been rectified.
So, apart from the explosion, you got to ask how dangerous was it all? Apparently it was dangerous enough to ruin me over, but not so dangerous as to allow them to ignore it if the PGDB couldn’t pin it on me.
The hearing was a sham with the investigator not divulging over 100 photos, withholding them for two years that proved what I had said from day one, that the pipe was lowered and altered from my original installation.
These withheld photos only came to light after cross examining the police forensic expert at the hearing. He had taken the photos the day after the explosion and made them available to the investigator, but the investigator only requested a small number of the photos to support his investigators’ report.
In these withheld photos you could see the original screw holes in the wall and the pipe was running down hill. Add these withheld photos to the Allgas receipt for the other gas hose sold weeks after I left Allgas. This is the hose that caused the explosion; the hose was replaced as it had split before, due to this lowering of the pipework. This is all known to the PGDB, MP’s and the Ombudsman.
The investigator and the chair of my hearing and my old boss were all part of GANZ, (and NZIGE and other gas groups).
Remember that GANZ was the gas group that openly lobbied for deregulation and the self cert system, a system shown by the explosion to have failed. Actually the investigator wrote papers about deregulation lobbying for it, now add that to the investigator’s issuing of a full certifying license to my old boss, he was not impartial.
As part of my “rehabilitation” after the hearing I was ordered by the PGDB to do a course of instruction to uplift my license, the course didn’t exist so I was assessed. I was told by the assessor that I would be in the top 10% of gasfitters the assessor had assessed, I had not been taught anything, just assessed.
The question is……
How would the PGDB look if someone not time served and unqualified, who the PGDB had flippantly granted a full certifying gas license to and gifted credentials to empowering them to sign off gas work, who then went on to issue a gas cert for the last work at the site of an explosion caused by a gas leak, with the top original copy (which was accepted by the PGDB) was lacking any recording of a test for gas leaks?
I think the PGDB would look pretty bad (and apparently so do the PGDB)….the cover-up shows their attitude to the trade and the public’s safety….they are bound to continue this cover-up.
We now are left with the present gas “safety” cert system that has devolved even more to all new gas work being classed as low risk in a housing shortage of 60,000 homes. As all this new gas work is deemed low risk it is not required to be registered with neither the ESS nor any other government agencies, it has no hand written signed copies back up with a carbon copy honesty mechanism.
Also the PGDB I am told are still handing out gasfitting licenses to those that are deemed “acceptable” to the PGDB, but are withholding licenses to people much more deserving.
The Ombudsman being the office for Fairness for “All”, up to and including the Chief Ombudsman is happy with all of this and the Ombudsman’s “quick” response team took many years to tell me of this happiness.
There is so much more to this but believe it or not I am trying to keep it brief. I lost everything and my old boss who had just retired before the explosion sits back in his house by the beach.
And it is us lowly tradesmen that are not classed as professional….by these professionals.
-
6 years ago to the day....
I lost everything, had nearly 250k spent on me....look at the costs spent on Darnley and this is a % of costs, think it was 30%....less than 30k that's a 220k difference of resources and funds spent going after me than Darnley....who most if not all the evidence points to........Darnley who faced a charge but it disappeared before his hearing......
Nick Smith changed his mind about supporting me after his good friend Bickers was voted on to the PGDB......Bickers stood down before seeing out his tenure. Nick Told me Bickers was his mate after summonsing me to his caravan to tell me to back off.....amazing what you can record on smart phones eh....
Interestingly Bickers turned up at a power-station where I had finally found local work close to my family....I met him there, he had joined the Board of the Power Company and was visiting sites.....My position was disestablished some time after and I was made redundant.....had to fly in and out of Wellington for months to support my family (couldn't sell the house and move, still can't, because it is a shack....I WAS mortgage free before all this bullshit).......I had to leave that Wellington job because they wanted me to supervise the workers under me, even though I had expressly told them at the start I was only to do quotes.....
People keep telling me to get on with my life......love to if I had it back....
I now work as a trainee in a new industry, after over 25 years in the gas industry....I am an apprentice......
Embattled gasfitter's ex-boss found guilty
Tracy Neal·01:00, Aug 03 2011
Facebook
Twitter
Whats App
Email
The former boss of embattled Takaka plumber and gasfitter Paul Gee has been found guilty of faulty work practices on a number of properties in the Nelson region, which placed public safety at "significant risk".
Mr Gee said yesterday he was "fuming" but not surprised that his former boss John Darnley was found to have broken industry laws, but it proves he was right in trying to warn the industry of wrongdoing. He was not sure if it bodes well for his appeal against two industry charges of which he too was found guilty.
The Plumbers, Gasfitters and Drainlayers Board said in a decision issued yesterday that it had found that Mr Darnley breached the Plumbers, Gasfitters and Drainlayers Act (1976) when he carried out gasfitting work on four properties in the Nelson area between 2003 and 2005.
He was found to have caused a "significant health and safety risk to the public" in relation to work carried out on the four properties and has been fined $1800 and ordered to pay $8780 in costs.
Mr Darnley, who now lives in Waikanae, said he was appealing the decision which he described as "completely ridiculous".
The board said Mr Darnley's conduct demonstrated a serious level of incompetence because he carried out non-compliant gasfitting at four properties which raised significant safety issues. It was a "matter of luck" that it had not resulted in any serious harm to the public.
Advertisement
The board found Mr Darnley failed to appreciate the standard required by those in the gasfitting trade and had not accepted the serious safety risk. It said in its decision that a "strong message" needed to be sent to Mr Darnley, to the industry and to the public that such conduct cannot be tolerated from certifying gasfitters.
Mr Darnley has also been ordered to undertake additional training prior to uplifting his next licence to carry out gasfitting work.
Mr Darnley was general manager of the former Allgas Products in Nelson until 2004. Mr Gee began work at Allgas in February 2003. He resigned in November that year, citing a deteriorating employer-employee relationship.
The company did gas installation work at the Milton Street Fish and Chip Cafe which was destroyed in an explosion in 2009 which seriously injured former owner Ron Clark.
The charges against Mr Gee, which related to a number of properties around the Nelson region, stemmed from an investigation into the Milton St explosion, but the board recently found that his work at this site was not contrary to regulations.
Last month the Plumbers, Gasfitters and Drainlayers Board cleared Mr Gee on 42 of the 44 particulars in the two charges brought against him for his work at seven properties in Nelson, Marlborough and Westport between May 2003 and June 2006. He plans to appeal the two particulars he was found guilty of. The board found him guilty of "professional shortcomings and unacceptable conduct" relating to work on a house in Malvern Ave, Atawhai.
Mr Gee said it "speaks volumes" that he was found 95 per cent not guilty and Mr Darnley was "found 100 per cent guilty", but he was still angry. The consequences for him had been serious in that he had lost his business in Golden Bay and had been forced to move to the North Island to find work and leave behind his family.
"The decision just backs up everything I did to warn [the industry] about what was going on. The decision is not a surprise to me but the whole thing really saddens me. Ron's life had been affected and so has my life and my kids' lives."
Mr Gee has received widespread support from colleagues and Nelson MP Nick Smith, who believed he had been made a scapegoat by the board for its own inadequacies.
The board has faced an overhaul in recent years, with many of the government-appointed members replaced by Building and Housing Minister Maurice Williamson after numerous reports finding serious administration flaws.
Dr Smith said yesterday the board's decision against Mr Darnley reinforced Mr Gee's earlier alerts.
Dr Smith was confident in the election of Tauranga engineer Alan Bickers as the board's new chairman. "It's a good move. He's a capable leader but it's a big job cleaning up the mess and restoring the public and Government's confidence," he said.
-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Paul & Emma Gee [mailto:gspservices@xtra.co.nz]
Sent: Saturday, 5 August 2017 9:26 p.m.
To: 'Paul & Emma Gee'; 'martin@pgdb.co.nz'; 'Registrar'
Cc: 'Wal Gordon'; 'jacinda.ardern@parliament.govt.nz'; 'team.wakeupnz@gmail.com'; 'Tracy Neal'; 'nicky@paradise.net.nz'; 'news@tvnz.co.nz'; 'newstips@stuff.co.nz'; 'Nick 4 Nelson'; 'Paul Stichbury'; 'Info'; 'info@wildtomato.co.nz'; 'admin@nelsoncommunitylaw.org.nz'; 'feedback@theamshow.co.nz'; 'fjehan.casinader@tvnz.co.nz'; 'b.english@ministers.govt.nz'; 'Colleen Upton'; 'chiefreporter@nelsonmail.co.nz'; 'editor@wildtomato.co.nz'; 'greenparty@greens.org.nz'; 'Infoline'; 'jared.savage@nzherald.co.nz'; 'kev.angusplumbing@gmail.com'; 'Laura Basham'; 'reporter@guardianmotueka.co.nz'; 'takaka@freshfm.net'; 'Tracy Neal'; 'Rt. Hon. Winston Peters'
Subject: RE: Justice
To all copied in, supplementary to my other emails below.
I am amazed, deeply disappointed and very saddened at the extent of the rot that appears to be rampant in our society.
We are governed by those that act like they are running a private gentleman’s club, but sadly this club appears to lack any gentlemen (or women). Some of these people entrusted with power appear to be filling their pockets to the detriment of the NZ public’s personal interests and finances and even personal safety.
The media should be outraged and putting this on every channel, front page, dedicating prime air time to it both on radio and TV.
But we appear to be more concerned with who wins The Americas Cup, the latest rugby game, The Block or what body part a celebrity has had cut off or sown on.
Compare the recent benefit fraud of an MP to the story told in this link http://newzealandjusticeandpolitics.weebly.com/, compare to my story where a guy nearly died in an explosion and the now auditor general fiasco….both attached.
The massive but ignored issue is….. when people think they can act with impunity their behaviour and morals deteriorate, this happens exponentially with each time they get away with it. This needs stemming before the top becomes so rotten there is no going back…..that’s if we aren’t already there.
They can not do any of this in an open and transparent forum.
It is the media’s job to keep those that Govern honest.
Yours With Integrity Paul Gee
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Paul & Emma Gee [mailto:gspservices@xtra.co.nz]
Sent: Friday, 4 August 2017 9:05 a.m.
To: 'martin@pgdb.co.nz'; 'Registrar'
Cc: 'Wal Gordon'; 'jacinda.ardern@parliament.govt.nz'; 'team.wakeupnz@gmail.com'; 'Tracy Neal'; 'nicky@paradise.net.nz'; 'news@tvnz.co.nz'; 'newstips@stuff.co.nz'; 'Nick 4 Nelson'; 'Paul Stichbury'; 'Paul Warhurst'; 'Info'; 'info@wildtomato.co.nz'; 'admin@nelsoncommunitylaw.org.nz'; 'feedback@theamshow.co.nz'; 'fjehan.casinader@tvnz.co.nz'; 'b.english@ministers.govt.nz'; 'Colleen Upton'; 'chiefreporter@nelsonmail.co.nz'; 'editor@wildtomato.co.nz'; 'greenparty@greens.org.nz'; 'Infoline'; 'jared.savage@nzherald.co.nz'; 'kev.angusplumbing@gmail.com'; 'Laura Basham'; 'reporter@guardianmotueka.co.nz'; 'takaka@freshfm.net'; 'Tracy Neal'; 'Rt. Hon. Winston Peters'
Subject: FW: Justice
Hi Martin,
Please see below an email recently sent to Jacinda Ahern. I find it truly amazing how many people I am meeting with stories of nepotism and corruption, basically good people who have crossed paths with just plain wrong people who are very dodgy…..the reason am passing this on to you is that these insipid methods of ruling never last…..it reaches a point where people stop believing in your system.
The PGDB only exist as a “legal fiction”, the same as a limited liability company.
It is an entity, a person for all legal requirements….. but it does not truly exist in reality, i.e. its not a physical being…..it has a building, staff and computers and even a Board populated by real people, but as the PGDB is a legal fiction it only truly exists in peoples minds…..when these people turn their backs to the PGDB……the PGDB basically will cease to exist.
For people to believe in you….. you need transparency, fairness, adherence to relevant rules actioned with integrity and honesty which is then administered with competence…. with the safety and best interests of the people who believe in this entity of the PGDB first and foremost in your actions…….the PGDB have failed miserably in all aspects of these requirements in recent years, and covered up since.
Take a look around you mate….look at the types of people who you are protecting, then compare them to those who are trying to guide you in the right direction…..have I or Wal or the Federation misled you or lied to you or been shown to be incompetent?
I say again…..look at my case……..I came forward on the day of the near fatal explosion (after warning for 6 years about dodgy certs covering altered dangerous work)….I told the truth and showed the investigator for what he was, a conflicted dodgy bastard covering up for another dangerous dodgy bastard who nearly killed someone…….Pick a side.
Look at who the more recent and proper investigations are turning up as being dodgy…..I am told it is the ones who think they are connected and they are astounded that they are being fingered, I wonder why?
Historically they thumbed their noses to the rules and acted with impunity….all the historical actions of the PGDB have given these dodgy bastards the impression that they can do as they like…this needs to change.
You have the power to change this; you more than anyone…..well except the disengaged Nick Smith, copied in. This explosion happened in Nelson, Nicks own constituency….the person who most if not all the evidence points to for this near fatal explosion worked in Nelson for many many years…..the people of Nelson thought they were dealing with a member of NZIGE, empowered by a PGDB full certifying license (which was gifted after one chat with the later appointed investigator and no apprenticeship sat)…..this enabled him to install and sign off gas fitting work in Nicks constituency…..this work did not retire with this dodgy bastard, most of it is still there ticking away. See attached for a very brief history.
I still think you took this job with good intentions and deep down you want the right thing for the industry…..but while you help these dodgy bastards to hide this bullshit, then well to be frank mate, you are no better than them.
Please Martin do the right thing and leave your mark on this industry…….but make it a good mark, not a skid mark.
Yours with Integrity Paul Gee
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Paul & Emma Gee [mailto:gspservices@xtra.co.nz]
Sent: Thursday, 3 August 2017 6:56 p.m.
To: 'Paul & Emma Gee'; 'jacinda.ardern@parliament.govt.nz'
Cc: 'Paul Stichbury'; 'Wal Gordon'; 'nicky@paradise.net.nz'; 'news@tvnz.co.nz'
Subject: RE: Justice
Hi Jacinda,
I see tonight on the news that the Auditor General has resigned, resigned over missing money….. but it is being hushed up now he has resigned…..apparently it ends there, how dodgy are these people? How rotten does Denmark have to get? It needs a full public inquiry.
The carpets and rugs at the Beehive must resemble the Southern Alps with the amount of political detritus and cover ups swept under them.
We also have an MP who swindled the benefit….money again! But its ok she will pay it back….out of her ample MP wages, while others have gone to prison for less.
But in our two stories below and attached..…. mine and Mr Stichburys….. a whole city was/is being misled and a person nearly died in a preventable gas explosion……it appears misappropriated money or funds going missing comes before safety, fairness, honesty and peoples wellbeing in their homes….money before lives is so very wrong.
Both my family and that of Mr Stichbury have been steamrollered and adversely affected, both terrorised with what appear to be exact sick sexually deviant case notes, not to mention the poor guy left in a coma in a burns unit.
Please can you tell me if you are going to address our cases?
If you are not going to take this on, please can you tell me why money seems to matter more than lives?
Yours with Integrity Paul Gee
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Paul & Emma Gee [mailto:gspservices@xtra.co.nz]
Sent: Tuesday, 1 August 2017 4:20 p.m.
To: 'jacinda.ardern@parliament.govt.nz'
Cc: 'Paul Stichbury'
Subject: Justice
Hi Jacinda,
Congratulations on your recent achievement of leader of the opposition.
Since my being framed for something I wasn’t responsible for (actually spent 6 years trying to warn about it) and having my family terrorised by the PGDB….I have met other people who are fighting for justice; I have copied in Paul who is the author of the link below. You’ll notice the common thread of Nationals Dr Smith.
http://newzealandjusticeandpolitics.weebly.com/
Please can you read his story and compare to mine, see attached. Where do we go for justice?
Best Regards Paul Gee
-
If you think we have a good system.......you should read this guys take on it too......
https://sites.google.com/site/tatsuhikokoyama/judicial-fraud-of-new-zealand
What sort of future do we have if things like this can happen to the innocent?
-
From the NZ Herald......
Now numbers of cowboys being detected and prosecuted are rising "because we are getting better [at detecting them]."
Or perhaps the system is failing and getting worse by the day........ perhaps....see full article below that I took the quote from.....all this in a housing shortage of 60,000 homes where ALL new gas work is deemed low risk and (as far as I know, please correct me) no work whatsoever is audited......why because the people responsible for my case go unpunished.....how can the public respect our trade when the powers that be don't respect our trade.....
Mark my words the repercussions for us to face tomorrow are being installed today......
Unlicensed tradesmen cause problems in building boom – mistakes others have to repair.
There's a new class of tradesmen cropping up in Auckland - fix-it men.
No, not handymen who do odd jobs round the house - tradesmen who fix mistakes by the "cowboys" originally hired to do a professional job.
Jayson Thomas is manager of the investigative team for the Plumbers, Gasfitters and Drainlayers Board. A former policeman with nine years' experience with the CIB, he now heads a small staff of six investigators and technical advisers.
What do they investigate? Shoddy work performed by tradesmen who are not licensed - popularly known as cowboys - and work done by inexperienced tradesmen who are supposed to be supervised when working on a project...but often aren't. They also check up on tradesmen who were once licensed but have let it lapse.
ADVERTISEMENT
Advertise with NZME.
It's in this context that Thomas and his investigators have noticed a new trend in Auckland - a thriving industry which has sprung out of the fact many cowboys are botching jobs luckless homeowners have paid for and then have to pay out again to fix them.
"I have spoken to people who recently have ceased to do any commercial work themselves. Instead, they just do maintenance work - but what that really means is they follow the people who are doing the original work and do fix-ups.
Jayson Thomas, manager of the investigative team for the Plumbers, Gasfitters and Drainlayers Board. Photo / Supplied.
Jayson Thomas, manager of the investigative team for the Plumbers, Gasfitters and Drainlayers Board. Photo / Supplied.
"For one of the guys I spoke to, that was his entire business - fixing other people's shoddy work - and he was absolutely flat out. It is one measure of just how many cowboys there are out there these days."
The main reason for this increase in the cowboy population is the building boom in areas like Auckland and Queenstown and other parts of the South Island.
Thomas says: "It's a buoyant construction market; some people see a chance to make easy money."
PGDB CEO Martin Sawyers says earthquake zones had been a target: "After the Christchurch earthquakes in 2010 and 2011, there were instances of people offering plumbing services when untrained and unlicensed - and we issued a warning to that end when the Kaikoura quake happened."
Now numbers of cowboys being detected and prosecuted are rising "because we are getting better [at detecting them]."
Thomas says a key tool is the Report A Cowboy (RAC) app launched last year, downloadable from the PGDB website. There are no figures available to compare from previous years but 126 complaints were laid over the app last year and 15 so far this year, with over 10,000 downloads of the app. Just under half the complaints involved allegedly unauthorised plumbers.
"Even if the information we receive through the app and other methods does not lead to a prosecution, it is an excellent intelligence-gathering tool," says Thomas. "It allows us to put a picture together involving a firm or an individual."
Thomas and his investigators can then "raid" projects where they have heard unlicensed operators may be carrying out illegal work.
Thomas doesn't like to call such surprise visits "raids" as he says they are generally low-key affairs. However, the investigators' work has enabled them to recognise a building sector under pressure, taking short cuts and sometimes exploiting workers.
"No one is making any excuses - plumbing, gasfitting and drainlaying has to be done by trained and licensed professionals for very good reasons," says Thomas. "But everyone [in the building sector] is feeling the pressure, particularly in Auckland and Queenstown, to build more and more. That creates a strong demand for contractors."
What happens next can cause problems. Thomas says some contractors hire unlicensed workers or gain an exemption to have unlicensed workers operating under the close supervision of a licensed tradesman.
In reality, the tradesman will often be away at another site because of the pressure of business - leaving behind unlicensed workers who Thomas says don't know what they are doing and who sometimes cause "absolute bedlam".
The worst case he has seen so far was in Christchurch where a drainlaying job went badly wrong. The workers had over-excavated the site, meaning the homeowners couldn't lay the tar-sealed driveway they wanted but instead had to pay out for a much more expensive reinforced concrete drive.
Even worse, the work meant the homeowners couldn't use their shower or toilet. The tradesman told the owners to use the neighbour's (instead of connecting up the drains every night when work finished) - but the neighbours were similarly unable to use their toilet.
"There was a part-timer and a first-year apprentice in charge of the job - the main guy spent most of his time at another site; this job was so bad the tradies got in to fix things said originally they didn't want to touch it."
-
The thing is guys....and I think this is the woolly mammoth's big brother taking a giant dump in front of the flat screen tv and preventing you watching Shortland St......
When the powers that be say the problem is too big to fix...(basically they can't fix this and keep their little club going).....then they need flushing, just like the mammoth shit they have laid....
Things started to decline with deregulation in the early 90's....you have seen what happened in my case .......totally covered up and someone nearly died.....just let that sink in.....someone nearly died and they covered it up, an hour earlier a few school kids could have died on their way to school.....but these people covered it up, putting themselves and their cronies above all that, whilst framing an innocent man.....the same guy who tried to warn them about this for 6 years......
And everyone is surprised that the cowboys are on the rise.......for fuuuuuuccckkkkksssss sake are you mental.......
Mammoth bullshit like this takes years to come out.....we are just seeing the start of it, mark my words......we have zero respect shown us.....we are governed by engineers and psychiatrists.....if any of these people were any good at their own "trades" they would be practising these skills in their own fields......
We need a shadow Board to keep these cunts honest.....rough, swearing cunts to keep the dishonest cunts honest......
-
........this article was written in 2013......do you think they listened......did they do anything about it?.....
you only have to watch the news to see how much they listened.... 4 years later.....its worse especially when you add the 60,000 shortage of homes, but its ok they got this......
Dearth of tradesmen foreseen
May 23 2013
CHRISTEL YARDLEY/Fairfax NZ
HANDS-ON TYPE: Rayden Epiha is studying fulltime for a certificate in building and construction (level 4) at Wintec.
The number of new trades trainees has dived over the past few years and some in construction are warning of a looming shortfall of skilled tradesmen.
Tertiary Education Commission figures show the number of trades trainees enrolled with industry training organisations (ITOs) dropped 23 per cent nationally - from 165,224 to 126,978 - in the three years to 2011.
Those figures have been mirrored in plummeting ITO enrolment figures and declining ITO revenue at Waikato's only technical institute, which is contracted to provide off-job training, pre-apprenticeship training and assessment.
In Wintec's 2012 annual report a "marked decline" in equivalent fulltime ITO students was identified; from a peak of 1019 in 2008 to 586 last year - a 32 per cent drop.
Wintec chief executive Mark Flowers said that was largely attributable to the recession and reflected that some industries were not taking on the same number of trainees as they were five years ago.
"ITO numbers in 2008 were at record high levels partly due to the housing boom. So if you look historically, the numbers are still quite reasonable."
However, some in the sector have pointed out possibly dire outcomes from successive years of dropping numbers.
Gayelene Woodcock, office administrator at Waikato Plumbing Services, said she believed the country would see an extreme shortage in qualified tradesmen in the next few years.
"During the early 1990s the same thing happened. When there was a decline after the 1987 crash it didn't actually affect the whole industry until the early 1990s.
"The lack of apprentices taken on there showed through about four or five years later when there was an extreme shortage of tradesmen."
Early this year the Government outlined plans to boost the number of people in apprenticeships, increasing subsidies by about $12 million from 2014 and offering the first 10,000 new apprentices and their employers who enrolled after April 1 this year money towards tools and off-job course costs.
But for some, it is too little, too late.
"We have a shortage now in skilled tradesmen. It's welcome that the Government worked out they need to do something but the impact of that skilled shortage is being seen at the moment," said Grant Robertson, Labour deputy leader and spokesperson for employment, skills and training.
"It's being seen in Christchurch and it's likely to be seen around the country."
Fletcher Waikato region manager Mark Ritchie said it was recognised a while ago that the shortage was a major issue for the industry, but several initiatives were being undertaken to try to address it.
"It is still an issue for industry, and it's quite an expense paying for apprenticeships, but you'll find most of the bigger players have continued with their regular numbers.
"A lot of the apprenticeship numbers that tend to dwindle are related to the residential side rather than the commercial sector."
Paul Hollings, head of specialist trades at New Zealand's plumbing ITO, The Skills Organisation, said that while the recession might have led to prudence among employers, the Government initiatives would improve trainee numbers.
Improved business confidence was leading to a positive outlook for trades training in the Waikato region and throughout New Zealand, he said.
'ALWAYS A PASSION'
Rayden Epiha, from Te Kauwhata, is studying fulltime for a certificate in building and construction (level 4) at Wintec.
After completing his pretrade certificate the 19-year-old hopes to secure work as a builder's apprentice.
"I've always been a hands-on person and I love the outdoors. So building stuff, even through school in carpentry classes, has been a passion of mine.
"When you build a building, you can say you have helped construct that."
Rayden said he was in a class of about 19 people and was "pretty confident" he would be able to find work.
"My dad is also a carpenter as well, so he knows builders over the Waikato and Auckland region, so he'll be able to help me out."
TUMBLING DOWN
The number of ITO trainees enrolled nationally each year between 2008 and 2011:
2008 - 165,224
2009 - 166,823
2010 - 156,586
2011 - 126,978
2012 figures being finalised
Source: Tertiary Education Commission
-
From: Paul & Emma Gee [mailto:gspservices@xtra.co.nz]
Sent: Monday, 21 August 2017 1:32 p.m.
To: 'jacinda.ardern@parliament.govt.nz'; 'phil.twyford@parliament.govt.nz'; 'Denise McElwain'; 'martin@pgdb.co.nz'; 'jayson@pgdb.co.nz'; 'Colleen Upton'
Cc: 'Wal Gordon'; 'lynnmoff'
Subject: Safety
Dear Jacinda,
I have copied in some others for clarity and transparency. I apologise in advance for this but if you take the time to read my email, my reasons will become apparent.
I understand this is a very busy time for you and am writing more from a point of view to perhaps get you or Phil or the new Building minister to look at this after the election. I have grave concerns for the Building industry as a whole and its on going affects to New Zealanders and planning for our future direction as a country.
You have recently and thankfully said that a new Labour Government will be a listening Government, a Government of action this will most definitely secure my vote and others around me.
I believe that a complaint of a cover up of a near fatal explosion carried out at an on going risk to the NZ public deserves to be listened to, before then acting to rectify the obvious problems and risks to New Zealanders in their homes and business’. Of Note this near fatal explosion happened to a nice everyday guy running a chip shop, similar to the one where you were given your first chance of work.
It doesn’t matter under whose watch any of this began but it most definitely needs fixing today, I say this because it appears that we have learnt nothing from issues raised like those of my case and things have sadly declined ever further since. Please see attached for an outline of the kangaroo court system and the biased premeditated persecution that my family was subjected to.
The short comings of the PGDB in my case are obvious. A total maladministration of the gas safety certificate system and the flippant issuing of gas licenses to cronies that resulted in the near fatal explosion, which was then covered up by the other cronies, with me as the scapegoat.
The PGDB still refuse to clear my name even though by their own reckoning I have done no wrong, please call me on this I have evidence aplenty. I am a very experienced gasfitter but have been corruptly hounded out of my chosen profession of 25 years, in a dire shortage of experienced gasfitters.
Sadly since my case there has been a further decline in safety with the crazy notion to class all new installations of gasfitting work as low risk….and by reason of this low risk classification none of this new work is required to be registered anywhere, other than with the installer (apparently a shoe box under the bed would suffice). As far as I am aware none of this new work is audited. If this has changed please can those copied in let me know?
This raises a few questions……
If this new work goes unaudited how will we know the quality/safety level of this new work?
If any of this new, low risk gas work is to be checked or audited….. How would you know where to look? Would you ask the gasfitter to pick a job for auditing? Would he only pick his best work? Are those doing this new work experienced?
Let me be very clear any new work done incorrectly, even the smallest job can go horribly wrong.
Now bear in mind this “new work, low risk” system is being utilised in a skills/experience/supervisor shortage…. all done under the immense pressure of a lack of 60,000 homes.
The only measure available to us that I can see is by the damage done, after that damage is done. Again to those copied in please correct me if I am wrong.
I think deregulation was a mistake, but even deregulation initially gave us a self certifying gas system with unique gas safety certificates (certs) sold by books identified by a unique cert number for each cert, sold to a specific licence holder identified by his unique license number, it was traceable and it was audited.
These unique certs had a triple carbon copy of the original handwritten pink top copy; this top copy was then held by the PGDB. With the subsequent carbon copies then held separately and independently by the gas supplier, the gasfitter and the customer. These four independent document depositories was an effective honesty mechanism with a handwritten, verifiable and traceable way of filling in the unique cert, with a real signature done by hand. But even this has all gone now. Of note it was this honestly mechanism that showed the shortcomings of the PGDB’s administration of the safety cert system.
This present day classification of all new gas work as low risk is an ill informed move in its own right, but to do it in a time period where there is a huge shortage of experienced gasfitters …….and add to that it being done in a housing shortage of 60,000 homes is nothing short of insane. We are installing the problems of tomorrow, today……and sadly doing it knowingly.
The Building industry is doing it hard and its not the tradesman’s fault. The answer is not to brush any of this under the carpet; no one ever learns from “addressing” it in this way, it will just make for trip hazards in the future.
For example look at the leaky homes.
The leaky home fiasco caused a kneejerk reaction to go and license the builders and get them to self certify their building work, for 25 years I am told (I really feel for them in this).
From my point of view when this happened the people who should have bore most of the blame (those in product sales/promotion, building design and regulation (actually deregulation) did not suffer any……so a system was sort to lay blame if it happens again, but only after it happens again. All put on the tradesman, we are apparently the whipping boy for all the shortcomings of the professionals.
For example one of the solutions to these leaky homes is to use treated timber (you really should look up the chemical compounds used in this treatment of timber). The treated timber is used so that if/when the building leaks it doesn’t rot (well not so quickly)……we are putting these chemicals in our homes (not to mention in the lungs of our tradies who work drilling and sawing it).
The old tried and trusted methods of building with proper flashings, extended eaves and external guttering to name but a few make the old houses so sound it’s a testament to our predecessors. We should be looking toward these older guys more than to the modern designers that have a “vision” and want an upside down roof, with an internal gutter, minimalist eaves if any, all with walls made of a few mm of plaster over polystyrene sheets.
Most tradesmen, but not all, are committed to quality and safety……there are a “cowboy few”… a dirty dozen if you will, and there always will be, who will put profit before quality and safety. But this number is growing.
This “cowboy few” will grow as more people get away with it. The self regulation/certifying system, just as evidenced with the gas system, empower cowboys and disadvantage the honest.
The PGDB recently admitted the number of cowboys is on the rise……if this is so, then this system above is already failing badly. Please see attached news article for PGDB’s own opinion.
Is this the system in this attached news article that we want or need? Because this is what we are setting up for the future…..a two tier system of shoddy even dangerous initial work done in people’s HOMES, first done by the cowboys (who incidentally pocket most of the profit by the way and are more likely to survive financially)….. which is then repaired by the few licensed tradesman left? Of note these experienced few are leaving and /or retiring because they are either fed up of it or going out of business.
This two tier system is done at a cost to the average home owner that is huge, it is double dipping at its worst, not to mention the risk to their health and safety…..where will we be in tens years time with the decline in numbers of the jaded experienced guys?
I have also read that a worrying amount of the building repairs done at the sites of the recent earthquakes and floods are being flagged as substandard and need redoing. Again a two tier system of ever growing costs, not just to owners but to government and insurance companies, not to mention the sanity and feelings of the poor occupiers.
The old system worked much better, i.e. proper regulation with proper apprenticeships overseen by audits/inspections and decent understandable clear concise industry standards, written in plain English.
Of note: My old boss was gifted his full certifying license with no apprenticeship….most, if not all the evidence points to him, he even had previous form….but gets away with a near fatal explosion, even after facing a charge but this charge conveniently disappears……what message does this send to his cronies, or any other potential cowboys thinking of doing the same?
Impunity leads to corruption which leads to profit put before safety.
Connected people will always tend to act with impunity, that’s why they invest in their connections and cronyism…..it’s a protection against prosecution. When this is in place and is shown to work as it did in my case……it empowers these people (and their mates) to act detrimentally to the public, putting profit before repercussions ( this is a bad joke because there are little to no repercussions and the profits are huge). We are yet to see the problems of the future…..the ambulance at the bottom of the cliff is being replaced with a hearse, that’s if this hasn’t already happened.
It’s the job of regulation, i.e. Government… to keep the trades and their Governing Boards honest, most will be happy to comply and would do the right thing anyway, but there will always be those that don’t.
When you run a business the cost/profit margin is always weighed against the work undertaken and how it is carried out and this will always be a massive consideration. When times are hard even the most conscientious tradesman may sacrifice some of his commitments to quality even safety………..especially when faced with going under.
In putting others needs before your self……the temptation is huge. I am speaking from experience as I have been there…..I lost my whole business due to the unfounded and unwarranted actions of the PGDB but folded before I put profit before quality and others safety. The temptation was huge because I wanted to be with my family and not be forced to work away from them just so we could eat; my boys were 3 and 5 at the time. I will never get those years back.
The well meaning conscientious tradesman will comply but under an ever increasing burgeoning cost…..the cowboys never adhere to these costs. You see the cowboys charge just a fraction less, undercutting the honest…..but in doing so make a much much greater profit. It is a mess.
You only find out after it has gone wrong and by then these cowboys have filled their pockets and moved on …..and maybe they are connected enough to get away with nearly killing someone and paying a nominal fee of a few thousand dollars……..what message does this send to others who consider this avenue of small to no repercussions whilst making a huge profit? It is a wild west of Cowboys and Idiots.
The trades have been very badly run and disorganised since deregulation. We are now lacking numbers due to profit put before apprenticeships (don’t get me started on the ITO’s history) and added to this we are loosing the much needed experience in the industry due to the attrition of compliance fatigue, age and financial pressure. When these older guys are gone we are frankly screwed with a very hard journey to even get back to where we are now.
And so in answer to these shortages we are calling for a flood of as many apprentices as we can muster whilst allowing ever more “skilled” people into the country to fill positions to build this shortage of homes and fill our depleted ranks.
What if we over shoot in these numbers (which we will) and cause the “housing bubble” to burst, not just within the building industry but within the housing market as a whole…….this could easily happen when all this extra work is done and we have a glut of tradesman…… and inevitably a glut of houses. Businesses will start to fold in a housing crash and the dog eats dog competition kicks in….. will people then put profit before safety?…..after what we have told them what is ok in the past…….its a no brainer. How bad do we want to make the outlook for our kids?
Why do we not plan for our future, isn’t it is our kid’s world that we build? I find it totally bizarre and deeply disappointing that apparently the greedy cronies filling their pockets at the trough in the short term, putting profit even convenience before our future is ok?
I hope you are going to lead a Government that will ask the hard questions but even more importantly come up with the even harder answers that are inconvenient to the cronies with their noses in the trough.
Michael Cullen started in the right place, but it inevitably failed because the PGDB were then re-filled with the same type of people that were sacked. And since been populated with people happy to cover this up, it isn’t going in the right direction……Even the PGDB say that cowboys are on the rise. Experienced people are dropping off the other end……what do think will happen if this trajectory is allowed to continue? There is an opportunity here for a better direction.
I am happy to answer any queries, even to travel anywhere in NZ and bring with me a wealth of information. Perhaps we could meet at the PGDB offices in Wellington?
I am happy to wait until after the election but please Jacinda, or someone at your office, can you please read the attached documents and can you acknowledge receipt of this email?
Yours With Integrity Paul Gee.
-
Mark my words the massive problems of tomorrow are being sown today......
-
I been out of the game now for some years..... since being framed for something I did not do, something I actually tried warning about it..... before the explosion for 6 years.....so I am a bit out of touch....but....can you please tell me if this below is true....
All new gas installs don't require to be registered in any independent register of work, this so called "low risk" gas work is not being audited......
This is happening in a climate of low numbers of gas experience and supervision.....
Not to forget its being done in a real push to catch up with a shortage of 60,000 houses........
Oh and on top of that there is a increase of cowboys....(I wonder why? *)........
All this is being policed by people who are happy to turn a blind eye to a cover up of a near fatal explosion, letting the guilty walk free at the expense of the innocent....
* I wonder why people think they can get away with being a cowboy.....perhaps it is because there is a very limited way of checking work, even finding where it is...let alone the standard of the work........UNTIL IT GOES WRONG.....
-
From: Paul & Emma Gee [mailto:gspservices@xtra.co.nz]
Sent: Wednesday, 23 August 2017 9:59 a.m.
To: 'Paul & Emma Gee'; jacinda.ardern@parliament.govt.nz; phil.twyford@parliament.govt.nz; 'Denise McElwain'; martin@pgdb.co.nz; jayson@pgdb.co.nz; 'Colleen Upton'
Cc: 'Wal Gordon'; 'lynnmoff'
Subject: RE: Safety
To All Copied In
Please see below in blue a recent post on a Plumbers forum, it has in excess of 59 thousand views, link below.
Please can you point out anything that isn’t true in this post…..
If it is true, which I believe it is, please can you explain to me how this serves to protect the NZ Public and the integrity of the trade? How does it help?
My case highlighted some very serious malpractice both by members of the PGDB and the real guilty person still being protected by the PGDB…..(someone nearly died for Christ sake).
What was highlighted by my case was bad….. but the solution offered is even worse, you wonder why cowboys are on the rise? You wonder why the standard of work is in free fall? You wonder why there is a shortage of tradesman?
Also on this link below is a story from 2013 about the “dearth of tradesman” this was FOUR bloody years ago…..but it appears little to nothing has been done……..we are in a mess…a dangerous mess.
All new gas installs don't require to be registered in any independent register of work, this so called "low risk" gas work is not being audited......
This is happening in a climate of low numbers of gas experience and supervision.....
Not to forget its being done in a real push to catch up with a shortage of 60,000 houses........
Oh and on top of that there is a increase of cowboys....(I wonder why? *)........
All this is being policed by people who are happy to turn a blind eye to a cover up of a near fatal explosion, letting the guilty walk free at the expense of the innocent....
* I wonder why people think they can get away with being a cowboy.....perhaps it is because there is a very limited way of checking work, even finding where it is...let alone the standard of the work........UNTIL IT GOES WRONG.....
https://www.plumbers.co.nz/forum/fellow-practitioners-update/41/fellow-practitioner-issue-236-dated-12-december-2014/1810/msg11057#msg11057
In this shortage of tradesman Martin Sawyers why won’t you clear my name?
Yours With Integrity Paul Gee
-
I feel for this poor guy, I have no idea of his problems or his causes.....but I do understand how you can feel so low and so helpless, poor bugger
http://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/person-sets-fire-to-themselves-at-parliament/ar-AAshxGM?li=AAaUOAg&ocid=ientp
-
This is not the first time aggrieved people have protested on that sport. It is the exact same spot that Wal Gordon sat on a toilet pan for three days protesting the plight of the Plumbing Gasfitting and Drainlaying industry and got no response from the Government and that response continues today. Possibly another injustice. My thoughts go out to the guy. No polices or actions by the Government or their departments should drive people to such self harm.
-
Some definitions of some words......apply them to the emails and the attachment.......how can I say these things with out repercussion....ah that would be because it is true....and I have a lot of evidence........
Corrupt
adjective
Having or showing a willingness to act dishonestly in return for money or personal gain.
‘unscrupulous logging companies assisted by corrupt officials’
Evil or morally depraved.
‘the old corrupt order’
Integrity......
noun
1The quality of being honest and having strong moral principles.
‘a gentleman of complete integrity’
The condition of being unified or sound in construction.
From: Paul & Emma Gee [mailto:gspservices@xtra.co.nz]
Sent: Wednesday, 1 November 2017 10:17 a.m.
To: 'martin@pgdb.co.nz'
Cc: 'Wal Gordon'; 'Colleen Upton'; 'Rt. Hon. Winston Peters'; 'Denise McElwain'; 'jacinda.ardern@parliament.govt.nz'
Subject: RE: A cover up at a risk to the NZ Public
Hi Martin,
You would have had time to read my email sent Fri 20/10/2017 7:04 a.m. with the file attached, attached here again for your convenience and to give this email stream some context and clarity, also see the email below.
I also would ask that you table this attached document that has been in your possession now for some time at the next PGDB meeting. I would ask each and every PGDB member to pass comment on this “Brief History” or at the very least confirm that they have read it.
I say brief because I have edited it down some what, there (as you are fully aware) is a much bigger picture in the failings of the PGDB’s mal administering of the gas safety certificate system uncovered by my witch-hunt, not forgetting the flippant issuing of licenses to people favourable to the PGDB, whilst withholding licenses to more deserving people.
I would ask all of you copied in if covering up this fiasco….. at a very real risk to the NZ public is helpful or even legal. The PGDB have exhausted my funds and caused me a huge amount of undue stress, they have terrorised my wife and had a detrimental effect on my life, business and reputation. Is this fair?
I have tried my hardest to act with in the law and it has failed me, but also the people of NZ when seen in the context of my case with regards to the on going safety of gas in their homes. It is countrywide.
The PGDB talk of regaining trust within the industry and re-establishing the integrity lost over the last decade…..I assure you brushing this under the carpet will achieve neither.
I have only the truth on my side.
The PGDB often give us lowly tradesman the option of “coming clean” when they have made mistakes to avoid undue court costs, the PGDB publically talk of the importance of the NZ publics safety, pontificating about high work standards, abiding by the rules for the greater good, about protecting reputations and building relationships…..but the PGDB only do all of this when addressing others…..the PGDB do this while you ignore your own standards in your actions. This makes you one of the worst hypocrites there are…..self centred, blind in your own power hypocrites……that do a they please endangering others as you go.
You may need to look up integrity as I feel you have absolutely no idea what it is.
Please call me on my allegations because the in excess of 300 documents prove what I claim.
There is a very real danger to the NZ public which has come about under the PGDB’s watch and mal-administration of their charges of safety and administration. It has been run like a gentleman’s club that sadly lacks any gentleman.
Ask the PGDB about the mal-administration of the so called (and very ironically) gas SAFETY certificate system….that carried a disclaimer for accuracy…. until updated and edited by today’s present watch.
All this previous work is still out there…..with the now added bonus of all “new” gas work being deemed “low” risk and requiring no independent registering of that work anywhere other than with the tradesman who is installing the work, all this work not independently audited……please see attachment for extent of this failure to protect against those unscrupulous gasfitters that would turn a blind eye to their own work to allow them to make money……all done in a housing shortage of 60,000 homes…..the ambulance at the bottom of the cliff has been replaced by a hearse…..the avoidable decline in the industry over the last decade is deplorable and down right dangerous.
Yours with Integrity Paul Gee.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Paul & Emma Gee [mailto:gspservices@xtra.co.nz]
Sent: Friday, 20 October 2017 7:04 a.m.
To: 'martin@pgdb.co.nz'
Cc: 'Wal Gordon'; 'Rt. Hon. Winston Peters'
Subject: A cover up at a risk to the NZ Public
Martin,
I want to ensure you are totally aware of my version of events and ask you to correct anything that is untrue in this statement attached. If it is true, as I am 100% sure it is…..how does this help protect the NZ public?
Thank you
Paul Gee
-
From: Paul & Emma Gee [mailto:gspservices@xtra.co.nz]
Sent: Friday, 3 November 2017 7:43 a.m.
To: martin@pgdb.co.nz
Cc: 'Wal Gordon'
Subject: Plumbers forum
Martin,
Please see below a post that you can find on the link below.
So you are aware this email will also be posted on the same thread. I do this so that the industry, or at least some of the industry (this thread has over 60,000 views) can judge your reply, which will also be posted on this thread. To ignore it (as I guess you will) shows a total disregard for the integrity of the position and that of the PGDB, in my opinion.
I want you to show the industry what you think of corruption and integrity; I have copied some definitions from the oxford dictionary for your convenience.
Corruption does not have a sell by date and integrity doesn’t come free with the position of CEO……nor does it come free as a PGDB advertising promo in any cereal packets. Integrity is hard earned.
Yours with Integrity Paul Gee
https://www.plumbers.co.nz/forum/fellow-practitioners-update/41/fellow-practitioner-issue-236-dated-12-december-2014/1810/msg11117#msg11117
Some definitions of some words......apply them to the emails and the attachment.......how can I say these things with out repercussion....ah that would be because it is true....and I have a lot of evidence........
Corrupt
adjective
Having or showing a willingness to act dishonestly in return for money or personal gain.
‘unscrupulous logging companies assisted by corrupt officials’
Evil or morally depraved.
‘the old corrupt order’
Integrity......
noun
1The quality of being honest and having strong moral principles.
‘a gentleman of complete integrity’
The condition of being unified or sound in construction.
From: Paul & Emma Gee [mailto:gspservices@xtra.co.nz]
Sent: Wednesday, 1 November 2017 10:17 a.m.
To: 'martin@pgdb.co.nz'
Cc: 'Wal Gordon'; 'Colleen Upton'; 'Rt. Hon. Winston Peters'; 'Denise McElwain'; 'jacinda.ardern@parliament.govt.nz'
Subject: RE: A cover up at a risk to the NZ Public
Hi Martin,
You would have had time to read my email sent Fri 20/10/2017 7:04 a.m. with the file attached, attached here again for your convenience and to give this email stream some context and clarity, also see the email below.
I also would ask that you table this attached document that has been in your possession now for some time at the next PGDB meeting. I would ask each and every PGDB member to pass comment on this “Brief History” or at the very least confirm that they have read it.
I say brief because I have edited it down some what, there (as you are fully aware) is a much bigger picture in the failings of the PGDB’s mal administering of the gas safety certificate system uncovered by my witch-hunt, not forgetting the flippant issuing of licenses to people favourable to the PGDB, whilst withholding licenses to more deserving people.
I would ask all of you copied in if covering up this fiasco….. at a very real risk to the NZ public is helpful or even legal. The PGDB have exhausted my funds and caused me a huge amount of undue stress, they have terrorised my wife and had a detrimental effect on my life, business and reputation. Is this fair?
I have tried my hardest to act with in the law and it has failed me, but also the people of NZ when seen in the context of my case with regards to the on going safety of gas in their homes. It is countrywide.
The PGDB talk of regaining trust within the industry and re-establishing the integrity lost over the last decade…..I assure you brushing this under the carpet will achieve neither.
I have only the truth on my side.
The PGDB often give us lowly tradesman the option of “coming clean” when they have made mistakes to avoid undue court costs, the PGDB publically talk of the importance of the NZ publics safety, pontificating about high work standards, abiding by the rules for the greater good, about protecting reputations and building relationships…..but the PGDB only do all of this when addressing others…..the PGDB do this while you ignore your own standards in your actions. This makes you one of the worst hypocrites there are…..self centred, blind in your own power hypocrites……that do a they please endangering others as you go.
You may need to look up integrity as I feel you have absolutely no idea what it is.
Please call me on my allegations because the in excess of 300 documents prove what I claim.
There is a very real danger to the NZ public which has come about under the PGDB’s watch and mal-administration of their charges of safety and administration. It has been run like a gentleman’s club that sadly lacks any gentleman.
Ask the PGDB about the mal-administration of the so called (and very ironically) gas SAFETY certificate system….that carried a disclaimer for accuracy…. until updated and edited by today’s present watch.
All this previous work is still out there…..with the now added bonus of all “new” gas work being deemed “low” risk and requiring no independent registering of that work anywhere other than with the tradesman who is installing the work, all this work not independently audited……please see attachment for extent of this failure to protect against those unscrupulous gasfitters that would turn a blind eye to their own work to allow them to make money……all done in a housing shortage of 60,000 homes…..the ambulance at the bottom of the cliff has been replaced by a hearse…..the avoidable decline in the industry over the last decade is deplorable and down right dangerous.
Yours with Integrity Paul Gee.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Paul & Emma Gee [mailto:gspservices@xtra.co.nz]
Sent: Friday, 20 October 2017 7:04 a.m.
To: 'martin@pgdb.co.nz'
Cc: 'Wal Gordon'; 'Rt. Hon. Winston Peters'
Subject: A cover up at a risk to the NZ Public
Martin,
I want to ensure you are totally aware of my version of events and ask you to correct anything that is untrue in this statement attached. If it is true, as I am 100% sure it is…..how does this help protect the NZ public?
Thank you
Paul Gee
2017 07 02 Brief history..doc
-
The truth has integrity and should be aspired to.......to cover up corruption (basically telling fibs) means you are tainted by that corruption and should be shunned.............corruption lacks any integrity.....
I might be wrong (I am just a mere plumber and not a learned "professional") but that's my take on it...........
Simple question Martin Sawyers CEO of the PGDB and all the PGDB members.......was my case handled with integrity? A simple yes or no.......no double speak......read the attachment below.....you decide!
-
Sent on the 5th November......about an explosion......oh the irony!!!!
From: Paul & Emma Gee [mailto:gspservices@xtra.co.nz]
Sent: Sunday, 5 November 2017 12:18 p.m.
To: 'martin@pgdb.co.nz'
Cc: 'Wal Gordon'; 'Colleen Upton'; 'Rt. Hon. Winston Peters'; 'jacinda.ardern@parliament.govt.nz'; 'jenny.salesa@parliament.govt.nz'
Subject:
Martin,
I could not have been responsible for the explosion that nearly killed Ron Clarke. Some of the undeniable facts are listed below; I say some because there is a massive amount of evidence in my possession.
1. I worked at Allgas from 24th Feb to 2nd Dec 2003, see attached letter “period of employment”. Leaving because of John Darnley’s blasé and dangerous attitude to the safety of his customers.
2. The hose that caused the explosion was sold 21st Jan 2004 (some 50 days after my last day at Allgas), see attached receipt for a third hose sold to supply just 2 gas deep fat fryers. This is the hose that split after being bent and stressing against the floor after someone lowered my original pipe work. This lowering is evidenced in the withheld photos (with held by the PGDB’s investigator) that showed where I had originally fitted my pipe work; it is shown by the holes left by my original fixings and the declining angle of the lowered pipe.
3. The job card for the Milton street chipshop, the site of the explosion, shows two people’s handwriting, mine and some one who ADDED the fryers to my original pre-pipe job card and in all probability to the actual job. Please see handwriting samples and opinions attached. This is the same John Darnley who faced a charge for the explosion, but this charge disappeared before his hearing, how does this happen? Most if not all of this evidence was and is still available to the PGDB and its investigator. I actually received most of the evidence from the PGDB.
4. This added writing of the fryers when compared to the signed sample of John Darnley writing appears to be John Darnley’s writing, the owner/manager of Allgas. This is the same John Darnley gifted his full certifying license many years before by Tony Hammond. This is the same Tony Hammond who was later appointed by the PGDB to investigate the explosion in the face of my complaints of impartiality. The same Tony Hammond who ignored evidence and withheld over 100 scene photographs of the explosion that proved my innocence. These photos only becoming available on cross examination by Wal Gordon at the hearing from the police’s forensic investigator, Hammond never making these photos available to us.
5. The basis for my one last charge (out of 44), that the PGDB still cling to, was later ignored in another case. The substance of this last charge is based totally on the sole opinion of the conflicted Tony Hammond. This last charge was the enforcement of a non mandatory part of the regulations. Even the investigator said if no fumes were entering the building then it complied with the mandatory part of the regs. The owner of the dwelling said fumes had never entered his home. But the other case ignored by the PGDB, where the elderly couple had actually complained specifically about fumes entering their home, were told to “just close the window when you use the water heater”. Is this fair, does it embrace integrity or corruption….which?…….. because it can’t be both.
6. The certificate mentioned by number 345168 in the Dept of Labour complaint for the explosion, the sole basis for the investigation. This certificate totally in the name of John Darnley, issued years after I left Allgas. This certificate claimed by the PGDB to have never been received by them, even though an electronic copy appears on the PGDB’s Fox Pro gas certificate system, with all the same information present. Same address, same appliance, same cert number….AND SAME MISSING TEST FOR GAS LEAKS. But the investigator claims to have seen the original copy of cert 345138. The PGDB told the explosion victim’s lawyer that this cert was never received by the PGDB……they did this while the poor man lay in a drug induced coma in a burns unit, he lay there for two weeks…..is this fair?
I ask you Martin, was this a fair process that the burns victim and I was subjected to? No one has been held responsible for the explosion while ignoring blatant evidence. Does this show integrity?
Is the New Zealand public’s safety best served by this total disregard of the facts? What precedent does it set for the future? (This is hugely important and should not be underestimated).
Is it fair to persecute the innocent whilst protecting the guilty? Would this not be corruption?
Please clear my name and hold the guilty responsible. Don’t forget I tried for 6 years before the explosion to fix this, notifying the PGDB of dodgy gas certs covering altered dangerous work, specifically naming Darnley in my concerns. My warnings could not have been better crafted, especially when viewed in the perspective of the DOL complaint.
I am sick of being known as “the guy who blew up the chipshop” ….when I know all these facts, it is harrowing and very draining to keep explaining to people what actually happened……but I always will explain. I am totally innocent.
Please table this email and attached evidence at the same PGDB Board meeting as my previous email. Be assured I will not rest until my name is cleared, every new person who joins the vicinity of my case, new MP or new member of the PGDB will be told my story until one of integrity is found. I swear this on all that is sacred to me.
Yours with Integrity Paul Gee.
-
So you can all see the mettle of this PGDB.......How will they act.....will Martin Sawyers refuse to show the PGDB this evidence or will they willingly accept it all......or will they stand for the truth and integrity? How they act can give you all a good indication of what they are.....
When these documents are tabled and they see this state of affairs they should be appalled and want this addressed.....you see anyone who joins a continuous membership Board inherits the actions of those who went before them.......
The PGDB a few years back celebrated 100 years of existence, not its 100th new member nor its 100th incarnation.....but its 100th year of being.....
The present PGDB should ask themselves how would your predecessors and your future members view this ignoring of blatant evidence, protecting the guilty and persecuting the innocent?
-
The email I sent below, I forwarded to every email address listed on the PGDB website along with the attachments....so you can be sure it is common knowledge across the PGDB.
See below....
From: Paul & Emma Gee [mailto:gspservices@xtra.co.nz]
Sent: Sunday, 5 November 2017 2:03 p.m.
To: 'ceo@pgdb.co.nz'; 'Registrar'; 'licensing'; 'gascerts@pgdb.co.nz'; 'exams@pgdb.co.nz'; 'PGDB Competency Based Licensing'; 'accounts@pgdb.co.nz'; 'complaints@pgdb.co.nz'; 'overseas@pgdb.co.nz'; 'comms@pgdb.co.nz'; 'martin@pgdb.co.nz'
Cc: 'Wal Gordon'; 'Colleen Upton'
Subject: Cover up
Dear PGDB,
Can those copied in please ensure this gets tabled under general business at the next PGDB meeting (also the other emails sent to Martin Sawyers); I will look for it in the PGDB minutes posted on your website, if you do not table it please can you let me know why.
Please can you ask that every Board Member comments on it or at the very least confirm that he/she has read it?
Thank you for your time
Paul Gee
________________________________________
From: Paul & Emma Gee [mailto:gspservices@xtra.co.nz]
Sent: Sunday, 5 November 2017 12:18 p.m.
To: 'martin@pgdb.co.nz'
Cc: 'Wal Gordon'; 'Colleen Upton'; 'Rt. Hon. Winston Peters'; 'jacinda.ardern@parliament.govt.nz'; 'jenny.salesa@parliament.govt.nz'
Subject:
Martin,
I could not have been responsible for the explosion that nearly killed Ron Clarke. Some of the undeniable facts are listed below; I say some because there is a massive amount of evidence in my possession.
1. I worked at Allgas from 24th Feb to 2nd Dec 2003, see attached letter “period of employment”. Leaving because of John Darnley’s blasé and dangerous attitude to the safety of his customers.
2. The hose that caused the explosion was sold 21st Jan 2004 (some 50 days after my last day at Allgas), see attached receipt for a third hose sold to supply just 2 gas deep fat fryers. This is the hose that split after being bent and stressing against the floor after someone lowered my original pipe work. This lowering is evidenced in the withheld photos (with held by the PGDB’s investigator) that showed where I had originally fitted my pipe work; it is shown by the holes left by my original fixings and the declining angle of the lowered pipe.
3. The job card for the Milton street chipshop, the site of the explosion, shows two people’s handwriting, mine and some one who ADDED the fryers to my original pre-pipe job card and in all probability to the actual job. Please see handwriting samples and opinions attached. This is the same John Darnley who faced a charge for the explosion, but this charge disappeared before his hearing, how does this happen? Most if not all of this evidence was and is still available to the PGDB and its investigator. I actually received most of the evidence from the PGDB.
4. This added writing of the fryers when compared to the signed sample of John Darnley writing appears to be John Darnley’s writing, the owner/manager of Allgas. This is the same John Darnley gifted his full certifying license many years before by Tony Hammond. This is the same Tony Hammond who was later appointed by the PGDB to investigate the explosion in the face of my complaints of impartiality. The same Tony Hammond who ignored evidence and withheld over 100 scene photographs of the explosion that proved my innocence. These photos only becoming available on cross examination by Wal Gordon at the hearing from the police’s forensic investigator, Hammond never making these photos available to us.
5. The basis for my one last charge (out of 44), that the PGDB still cling to, was later ignored in another case. The substance of this last charge is based totally on the sole opinion of the conflicted Tony Hammond. This last charge was the enforcement of a non mandatory part of the regulations. Even the investigator said if no fumes were entering the building then it complied with the mandatory part of the regs. The owner of the dwelling said fumes had never entered his home. But the other case ignored by the PGDB, where the elderly couple had actually complained specifically about fumes entering their home, were told to “just close the window when you use the water heater”. Is this fair, does it embrace integrity or corruption….which?…….. because it can’t be both.
6. The certificate mentioned by number 345168 in the Dept of Labour complaint for the explosion, the sole basis for the investigation. This certificate totally in the name of John Darnley, issued years after I left Allgas. This certificate claimed by the PGDB to have never been received by them, even though an electronic copy appears on the PGDB’s Fox Pro gas certificate system, with all the same information present. Same address, same appliance, same cert number….AND SAME MISSING TEST FOR GAS LEAKS. But the investigator claims to have seen the original copy of cert 345138. The PGDB told the explosion victim’s lawyer that this cert was never received by the PGDB……they did this while the poor man lay in a drug induced coma in a burns unit, he lay there for two weeks…..is this fair?
I ask you Martin, was this a fair process that the burns victim and I was subjected to? No one has been held responsible for the explosion while ignoring blatant evidence. Does this show integrity?
Is the New Zealand public’s safety best served by this total disregard of the facts? What precedent does it set for the future? (This is hugely important and should not be underestimated).
Is it fair to persecute the innocent whilst protecting the guilty? Would this not be corruption?
Please clear my name and hold the guilty responsible. Don’t forget I tried for 6 years before the explosion to fix this, notifying the PGDB of dodgy gas certs covering altered dangerous work, specifically naming Darnley in my concerns. My warnings could not have been better crafted, especially when viewed in the perspective of the DOL complaint.
I am sick of being known as “the guy who blew up the chipshop” ….when I know all these facts, it is harrowing and very draining to keep explaining to people what actually happened……but I always will explain. I am totally innocent.
Please table this email and attached evidence at the same PGDB Board meeting as my previous email. Be assured I will not rest until my name is cleared, every new person who joins the vicinity of my case, new MP or new member of the PGDB will be told my story until one of integrity is found. I swear this on all that is sacred to me.
Yours with Integrity Paul Gee.
How does this sort of cover up sit with you guys? How does it help the industry? What precedent does it set for the future?
Please see attachments sent with email.
-
Think on this...... the PGDB and numerous people in charge, know you know all this.... but don't seem to care that you can see how blatantly dodgy all this is.......
I believe it says a lot about their attitude toward you and your trade and how you can assume you will be treated should you fall foul of them......
FFS.....A guy nearly got killed and they are covering it up and not going after the guy who most if not all the evidence points to.....really? Oh wait there they gifted him his full license with no apprenticeship sat......respect for our trade, I struggle to see anything other than contempt for us.
Does anyone remember the old kids story about the Emperor's new clothes?
Next time the PGDB make a press release or swagger into a meeting and swish their imagined sparkly new robe of plumbing excellence and openly boast of safety....about standards of work.....about fairness and integrity...... about saving the good people of NZ, keeping them safe from dodgy cowboys and ruffians.....
You can either say "those new clothes really suit you Emperor"........ as you look straight at their sickly, pasty and pock marked figures trying not to make eye contact with their bare body of dodgy dealings and cover ups...........(I am talking figuratively about their body of work not their actual physiques).
Or you can tell them that the Emperor's New Clothes are non existent and you can see their bare bum (and it ain't a nice one either). Delusional springs to mind, that and just plain dodgy hypocrisy.
-
From: Paul & Emma Gee [mailto:gspservices@xtra.co.nz]
Sent: Thursday, 9 November 2017 10:52 a.m.
To: 'Paul & Emma Gee'; 'ceo@pgdb.co.nz'; 'Registrar'; 'licensing'; 'gascerts@pgdb.co.nz'; 'exams@pgdb.co.nz'; 'PGDB Competency Based Licensing'; 'accounts@pgdb.co.nz'; 'complaints@pgdb.co.nz'; 'overseas@pgdb.co.nz'; 'comms@pgdb.co.nz'; 'martin@pgdb.co.nz'
Cc: 'Wal Gordon'; 'Colleen Upton'; 'Erin Hill'; 'jacinda.ardern@parliament.govt.nz'; 'Rt. Hon. Winston Peters'
Subject: RE: Cover up
Martin,
Now you have had time to digest the last email I would like to bring your attention to the one last charge that blemishes my name. One out of 44 trumped up charges.
I said in my previous email below that I could not have been responsible for the explosion that nearly killed Ron Clarke, and I was found not guilty of this charge to the chagrin of those involved, but most if not all the evidence that points to John Darnley (but is ignored by the PGDB) was in possession of the investigator very early on.
Remember Darnley faced a charge FOR THE EXPLOSION but this charge disappears before his hearing. Max Pederson confirmed this in writing I can send if you wish.
My point is that all this evidence (that proves my innocence) was with the investigator well before my hearing. Most of it right at the beginning of his investigation and so he should not have targeted me. But target me he did. The focus of this targeting I will address later.
Basically if the PGDB couldn’t pin this on me then they didn’t want to pin it on anyone…..as no one has been held responsible for this near fatal explosion, whilst ignoring robust evidence and blatant impartiality conflicts, this is morally corrupt.
This phoney one remaining charge is based solely on the PGDB investigator, the very conflicted, Tony Hammond’s opinion. He is enforcing a Part 2 non mandatory clearance RECOMMENDATION taken from NZ 5261, he references a confusing and contradictory table 8 in NZ 5261.
I say confusing and contradictory because this table 8 allows for a mechanical fan sucking air from the outside and transferring this potentially contaminated air into the building. Allowing this inlet, into the building, to be nearer to a gas flue than a passive open window with no powered vacuum.
The name spa blower is a misnomer because a spa “blower” sucks from the out side and “blows” into what is traditionally the smallest room in the house, i.e. a bathroom, right under the nose of the bath’s occupier. It usually only blows when this person is in the bath. The specifications for these fans talk in 70 cubic litres per second, that’s per second…… and there is no restriction on the size or power of these fans. Please explain this to me?
Tony Hammond helped write this regulation NZ 5261 and would be I think protective of it. Another author from NZ 5261, a Bruce Kline had this to say on the use of alternative regs, my high lights in red, also attached.
Please find below a brief overview of gasfitting in New Zealand.
“Gasfitting” is a defined term in the Plumbers Gasfitters and Drainlayers Act 2006
In order to do gasfitting you have to be licensed by the Plumbers Gasfitters and Drainlayers Board
Gas work (gasfitting) must comply with the Gas Regulations and be certified by the gasfitter as complying with NZS 5261: 2003, part 1 which is the Performance based design and installation criteria
Part 2 of NZS 5261 gives one way of complying with Part 1, but other ways of complying with part 1 can be used. Relevant Australian or British standards may be used if the gasfitter can demonstrate compliance with NZS 5261, Part1
I can use British Regs, and I am guessing the 70 million plus people using this reg in the UK makes it a robust and tested reg, the fact Mr Hammond was ignorant of this reg is not my short coming and I refer you to my testimony at my hearing about the behaviour of the fumes, I even drew a diagram. Please see attached.
I do not need to adduce any new evidence, it is all there at my hearing but it was ignored by the PGDB. I even have a photo of the fumes behaviour. Please see attached.
My testimony and supporting diagram illustrating the behaviour of fumes given at my hearing was exact to this photo and proven by the British Reg. I say it again it is not my shortcoming that the PGDB decided to ignore it and listen to the most conflicted person involved in my case, that of the investigator. The same person who gifted Darnley his full certifying license and then went on to withhold photos taken at the site of the explosion that proved my innocence.
In the table attached from the British Standard a clearance of 300mm is acceptable, now compare to Bruce Klein Senior Advisor Building Standards in reference to the use of a British Reg and bear in mind my califont had a 540mm clearance.
I am innocent as long as the PGDB ignore the opinion of just one person, the conflicted and biased Tony Hammond… Yes, the same Tony Hammond who gifted Darnley his license and went on to withhold photographs but he also said at my hearing that if there were no flue gases entering the building then it complied with the mandatory part 1 of NZ 5261. So in Hammond’s own opinion I am innocent, but the PGDB ignore this also.
Also see attached the email (shown to the PGDB) from the owner of Malvern Ave (the site of my last charge), he had no problem with the install whatsoever.
But and it is a huge but…..and I think this shows the inconsistency of the PGDB when it is convenient to them.
But…….. when an elderly couple actually complained about fumes entering their home, they are told by the PGDB to close the window when they use it; I am told they are on anti stress medication over this. This was AFTER my hearing……please see the details for this in the attachment for the Highgates.
Martin you talk of integrity…..please can you let me know what the PGDB’s definition of integrity is…..because all this above is void of even a shade of integrity.
Do the untrue letters that ruined my business before the hearing reflect the PGDB’s take on integrity? Please see an example sent to my local high school and the empty meaningless apology from the PGDB, admitting that the letter sent before my hearing could have given the wrong impression to my customers that I was capable of acting illegally in other parts of the country….BEFORE my hearing…..this is the definition of prejudicing in my book, at every site of all the extra charges, BEFORE MY HEARING. Fair hearing, I do not think so!
Please table this information and email at the same PGDB meeting, and again I ask each Board member to comment or at least confirm they have read it.I have even more evidence, but as you already have a lot to table I will leave it at that for this meeting, I am more than happy to provide more if required.
I ask you Martin is it acceptable to the PGDB to protect the guilty to the detriment of the innocent…..while putting the NZ public at risk? Again I ask for your definition of integrity?
Does the reputation of the guilty mean more than that of the innocent? AT A RISK TO THE NZ PUBLIC? Really?
I ask everyone at the PGDB at this meeting and the others copied in…..Is the precedent set by all this helpful to NZ or the plumbing industry? Should we not take a more heuristic approach using experience to learn and improve, not cover up and hope it goes away? Which is the right path for NZ? Perhaps not the right path for some unscrupulous people, but do they matter more?
You are a continuous membership industry board….you inherit the actions of your predecessors and set an example for the people you hand the baton of responsibility to……are you happy to put your name to all this? What does it say about your integrity, your attitude to corruption, to safety, to standards……to ethics, to common decency? I will ask until I find someone with some moral fibre.
I was set child sexual abuse case notes to my home…..are you all happy with this too? Just to prove a point on probabilities in a gasfitting context? Really? You stand by all this? I can send copies of this to any that request it but I do not like to send this sort of filth about blindly.
Those that ignore lessons to be learnt from the mistakes of history are doomed to repeat those mistakes. Integrity takes ownership, corruption covers up. I ask you that are copied in, did the PGDB learn anything from the last time they were sacked by Michael Cullen…..because the cover up took place after this sacking.
Please table this as I said at the next meeting, and forward any comments to me, or if you refuse to table then please tell me why. I will look for any mention in your publicised minutes.
Yours with Integrity Paul Gee
-
I can not believe someone nearly died in an explosion and no one has been held accountable, ignoring blatant robust irrefutable evidence.....what does this say about the PGDB and what does this say to the industry?
-
And here is the response from the PGDB...........they won't even table my correspondence...........they know that you know the level of corruption that was levelled at me and my family.
So they turn a blind eye......they won't even look.....It is very similar to kids in a play ground when they don't want to listen to he truth....fingers in their ears, eyes shut shouting lalalalalalala.....what a bunch of monkeys.....hear no evil, see no evil......shame they couldn't speak no evil....or do no evil.
Integrity or corruption.......please think of this the next time they go on about these words and say they are here to protect the NZ public and go after cowboys......joke is sadly on us. We finance this and we (by our silence) condone this.....
-
It has never been about the out come of the witch-hunt........... its the witch-hunt that I am against.
42 out of 44 charges is a win in anyone's books, but it ain't about that....its about the lies, the uncalled for character assassination and the terrorising of my wife.
If they can't (or refuse to) see that nor understand why.....then that reflects on their true character.....and not mine.
I can hold my head high. I wouldn't swap places with them for a second.
Noses in the trough and pontificating about how great they are and how we need them....all done with fairness and integrity......lol
A galaxy of empty words from a liar are not worth a short sentence of truth from those with integrity.
The Emperors New Clothes, with all the sycophants telling him how smart he looks....very sad.
.
-
Blissful in their ignorance, but wasn't there emails sent to all the available address's at the PGDB?
I can see what is meant by emperor's new clothes.....strutting around dressed in an imaginary pompous coat of integrity while everyone can see their bare arse of a cover up........so pretending not to know.......makes it go away?
I'll think of this next time they gloat they have caught someone and saved the world.....very embarrassing.
-
Think what would have happened if this was America where they committ mass murder just for being pissed off, cheers
-
The worst part is they are refusing to even look at what they have done knowing that you all know how bad it is.... (I know they know you know because I have passed on the link to this forum, and told them that I will table their reply on this same forum)....believe me they know....
They know that you know all this but they apparently couldn't give a shit.....Integrity? In touch with the industry? Fairness? Transparency? Up Front? Nice people? Sneaky? Corrupt? Cover up?......
Just hope that nothing goes wrong for you guys and it suits them to hang it on you instead of facing any mistakes they might have made.....
There is a lot of knowing in this.......but the PGDB have their fingers in their ears, eyes wide shut while they shout at the top of their voice (very ironically) no no no no no ......pretty childish if you ask me.
It's a sad sad shame they were not shouting know know know know....its all in the spelling apparently.
.
-
So in the PGDB's own words they knew Darnley was issuing the carbon copies out.....but didn't register with the PGDB? For a cert mentioned by number in the only reason for the investigation? i.e. the DOL complaint attached.....read it, tell me who in there deserves to face the brunt of this investigation.....and who deserves to have his charge for the investigation disappear.....Darnley faced a charge for the explosion and poof.....disappeared in a puff of smoke, similar to the poor buggers chipshop....
Isn't that an offence....wouldn't that cause you to investigate further into the guy who the PGDB had received complaints about from non other than the other person in the Dept of Labour complaint....i.e. me....for 6 years.....complaining about dodgy certs covering dangerous altered gas work...my warnings could not have been better crafted.....we had a dodgy cert and altered work that went bang and nearly killed someone (pretty dangerous eh?)
From: Melanie Phillips [mailto:melanie@pgdb.co.nz]
Sent: Wednesday, 11 May 2011 4:13 p.m.
To: Paul & Emma Gee
Cc: Wal Gordon
Subject: RE: Paul Gee
Hi Paul
Please see attached Belinda’s file note of her request to John Darnley for a copy of certificate 345138. This occurred after she was contacted by lawyers acting for the owner on 17 April 2009 requesting copies of all gas certificates relating to 136 Milton Street.
Also attached is a copy of the certificate received which, as you will see, is of quite poor quality.
Please let me know if you need any more information.
Regards
Mel
From: Melanie Phillips[mailto:melanie@pgdb.co.nz]
Sent: Wednesday, 11 May 2011 3:22p.m.
To: Paul & Emma Gee; WalGordon
Subject: RE: Paul Gee
Hi Paul
I have just gone back through the file and can confirm that the Board never received a pink copy of certificate345138. The only copy the Board has is a photocopy of the certifier’s copy, which you produced as exhibit PG007 together with a copy of the gas suppliers copy.
I see notes from Belinda Greer on the file that the Board copy of certificate 345138 was received after the explosion in 2009, I think from the Department of Labour.
I’m sorry I can’t help you further.
Regards
Mel
They knew all this very early on, the explosion happened in 9th April and this request was made on the 17th of the same month......
But you'll see attached cert 345138 was seen by the investigator, see attached.......
And there is a copy of 345138 it on the fox-pro system.........see attached.
How would the PGDB look if they flippantly gave a license to one of their mates.....who then went on to nearly burn down a house, then AFTER this blows up a chipshop?
But not only did they flippantly issue the license...but.... they had accepted a cert (345138 actually mentioned in the DOL complaint) that missing any recording of a test for leaks......then it blows up after of things a gas leak!
It is a continuous membership board anyone there is happy with this, they must be because they do nothing......they inherit the actions of their predecessors and they set an example for the people they hand it on to.....
Martin Sawyers talks of integrity, honesty, calling for people to come forward and do the right thing.....I bloody did and no one had to tell me to, just wanted to see the right thing done FOR 6 YEARS BEFORE THE EXPLOSION....
READ THE DOL COMPLAINT ATTACHED.....TELL ME WHO WOULD YOU GO AFTER ME OR DARNLEY?
The PGDB appointed an ex board member to investigate the near fatal explosion.....the same guy who gave Darnley his full certifying craftsman gas fitting license after one oral exam and no apprenticeship sat....I complained about all (there are a lot) of ignored conflicts of interest at an impartiality hearing held before my hearing....the PGDB decided that they themselves were impartial...which is impossible.
My hearing was then overseen by the investigators mate.....and just before I was to go 100% innocent he shut this hearing down.
Integrity..... when it is thrown around as a word by people easily and flippantly is a reflection on their true core.....and it lacks any integrity.
Corruption ...... when it is vehemently denied and covered up is also a reflection on the true core........
These people in my case are the people who govern you and hold your license to ransom......
.
-
How can the PGDB create this electronic cert with out receiving it? Are they psychic? Clairvoyant perhaps? Maybe even time travellers?
The PGDB denied receiving this cert while the guy lay in an induced coma in a burns unit for two weeks......they denied receiving this cert 345138 and the guy still had 5 days left in that drug induced coma.....nice people.
-
The only evidence for receiving the cert 345138 (all copies missing the recording of a test for leaks) is that is has a day of entry on the fox-pro system........get this 8th April 2005......spooky because exactly 4 years later to the day (well day after) it exploded.....
See attached the simpleton answer from the then CEO......
SOMEONE NEARLY DIED......THIS IS THE LEVEL OF RESPONSIBILITY, ACCOUNTABILITY, COMPASSION, OWNERSHIP AND INTEGRITY THAT THE PGDB ARE HAPPY WITH? It is utter bullshit.
I am really starting to loose my temper over this bullshit. I have kept my composure for a long time, I have given every agency an opportunity to do the right thing, from MPs, the Ombudsman, human rights, community law and the PGDB.....all, so far, useless.......
I want my life back.
.
-
From: Melanie Phillips[mailto:melanie@pgdb.co.nz]
Which is it? did you receive the cert or not?.....this type of work and certifying was done in peoples homes and businesses.....
Sent: Wednesday, 11 May 2011 3:22p.m.
To: Paul & Emma Gee; WalGordon
Subject: RE: Paul Gee
Hi Paul
I have just gone back through the file and can confirm that the Board never received a pink copy of certificate345138. The only copy the Board has is a photocopy of the certifier’s copy, which you produced as exhibit PG007 together with a copy of the gas suppliers copy.
I see notes from Belinda Greer on the file that the Board copy of certificate 345138 was received after the explosion in 2009, I think from the Department of Labour.
I’m sorry I can’t help you further.
Regards
Mel
-
.........if the cert 345138 was never received by the PGDB ........ how on earth did this electronic cert come into being see attached ?.....apparently the only evidence of it being received is that there is an entry date on the now defunct "fox-pro" system that cost over 600k, which then carried a disclaimer of accuracy.....do you need any more evidence?
I think that the PGDB have lost this cert......which is convenient because it lacked any recording for a test for gas leaks........then it blew up nearly killing someone......because of an explosion due to.....A GAS LEAK.
All in the name of John Darnley, who was gifted his license after "one oral assessment" done by Tony Hammond......who was later appointed to be the investigator......
But......apparently.....it is I who have the short comings....
Alan Bickers, chair of the PGDB, said:
“The Board takes its responsibilities in this area very seriously and the primary purpose of discipline is rehabilitative, not punitive.
“Discipline is an opportunity to identify and, where possible, promote the competence of registered tradesmen by identifying conduct which falls below the standard expected of a registered person.
“The Board was concerned by Mr Gee’s apparent lack of knowledge and appreciation of the applicable regulatory provisions for gasfitting, which exist to ensure the health and safety of the New Zealand public.
AND THIS LITTLE DOOSIE.......
In considering the charge, the Board noted Mr Gee’s lack of appreciation of process, objectives and accountability when signing gas certification certificates and certifying gas installations.
Really???.....BECAUSE IT WAS THE PGDB WHO LOST THE CERT FOR THE LAST WORK DONE AT THE SITE OF THE EXPLOSION. All in the name of John Darnley.....who was gifted his full license.....by Hammond (who withheld over 100 photos that proved my innocence)....
No one has been held accountable for the explosion ......Darnley faced a charge but it disappeared before his hearing......
One rule for us and no f****ing rules for them...... accountability?......Jesus Christ on a bike .......Bickers what are you on? No wonder you didn't couldn't see out your tenure as the PGDB chairman.......
.
-
So the reputations and egos of these "professional" people are more important than mine or yours or the integrity of the trade, it totally limits if not excludes the amount of blind faith that we can place in their hands to do the right thing......it is non existent in my experience.....
If we turn our backs to these muppets they become just an expensive rest home of goons....... that we get to finance......
How can we have faith in people who are happy to set this precedent........ to set this precedent for OUR future?
Not their future.....remember they are totally sorted financially...... filling their bank accounts with wages paid by us, probably with a nice retirement sorted out......now get back under those floors and break your knees to pay for this.....people like this are utter parasites.....
Well (and the egos won't like this)......if you let this precedent stand your reputation is in tatters......it really is, it is embarrassingly so.
.
-
Just wish they would practice what they preach......be nice eh?
LOL................ if things were more nearer the truth.......not to forget better for the NZ public.....
“Discipline is an opportunity to identify and, where possible, promote the competence of a registered "Industry Board" by identifying conduct which falls below the standard expected of a registered "Industry Board".
“Paul Gee was concerned by the "PGD Boards" apparent lack of knowledge and appreciation of the applicable regulatory provisions for gasfitting, which exist to ensure the health and safety of the New Zealand public.
In considering the charge, Paul Gee noted the "PGD Boards" lack of appreciation of process, objectives and accountability when accepting gas certification certificates and the flippant issuing of practicing craftsman licenses to enable certifying gas installations in peoples homes and businesses ......that then blew the f**** up and nearly killed someone....
Reputations......lol......notorious........
.
-
From: Paul & Emma Gee [mailto:gspservices@xtra.co.nz]
Sent: Tuesday, 23 January 2018 5:27 p.m.
To: 'Paul & Emma Gee'; ceo@pgdb.co.nz; 'Registrar'; 'licensing'; gascerts@pgdb.co.nz; exams@pgdb.co.nz; 'PGDB Competency Based Licensing'; accounts@pgdb.co.nz; complaints@pgdb.co.nz; overseas@pgdb.co.nz; comms@pgdb.co.nz; martin@pgdb.co.nz
Cc: 'Wal Gordon'; 'Colleen Upton'; 'Erin Hill'; jacinda.ardern@parliament.govt.nz; 'Rt. Hon. Winston Peters'; 'Allan Day'
Subject: RE: Cover up
Martin,
The seventh anniversary of my May 2011 hearing approaches (wrt hearing also see biased bent corrupt laughable kangaroo court). And as you are well aware I am still trying to clear my name. Please may I make a formal request for you to retain any documents that are relevant/attached to my case in anyway, so as it can be referenced in future legal action.
I am sure that the excuse of “oh its gone past 7 years so we don’t have to keep it” will soon start to be utilised.
In light of this anticipated excuse I am formally asking you to retain these documents. If you do insist on throwing out these documents then please may I have them sent to me, I will pay the postage or can pop in and pick them up. I have copied in all PGDB dept’s so the PGDB have a broad awareness of this request.
I make this request as I am attempting to prevent any relevant documents disappearing similar to gas SAFETY cert 345138 issued to cover the last work at the site of a near fatal explosion caused by a gas leak………the same cert 345138 that couldn’t be found after that explosion……...but IRONICALLY there is a copy of 345138 on the PGDB’s fox-pro system, even though the PGDB deny ever having received cert 345138……..not received ever!!!…..with all available copies of cert 345138 missing a test for GAS LEAKS of all things…..…A cert issued by someone gifted his gasfitting full license with no apprenticeship served…and then investigated by the same guy who granted that license……..confusing eh? What a joke!!!!
If anyone copied in isn’t sure to what explosion I refer to above I have attached a very brief history outlining what happened to me and my family at the hands of the PGDB. I do this because just recently I asked for a file on another gas leak which resulted in a fire in Nelson on a specific day/date, a year before the explosion (I am trying to ascertain whether the same guy is responsible), I was told by Martin that he could not provide because I didn’t give enough details see attached (I guess there must have been hundreds of fires started by gas on that day in Nelson……that’s a bit of a worry eh?)
I am quite sure this request is in vain and yet again a waste of my time, but there you go.
Thank you.
Yours with Integrity Paul Gee
-
Other than getting it in to the media, I couldn't be more public.....those copied in have been told and the PGDB are aware of these posts.....
So framing an innocent person, while covering up for the guilty, for a near fatal explosion must be ok for all these people....they know you know too and apparently couldn't give a shit.....
Where is the respect for our trade?
Precedents are set by past actions.....this precedent says all this is ok......what if is you next time, or someone you know who gets shafted or injured?
-
I have just und out t they used one of my warning letters to try to pin the explosion on me.....for a report solely aimed at me.....ignoring all the evidence.....is that fair?
From: Paul & Emma Gee [mailto:gspservices@xtra.co.nz]
Sent: Thursday, 15 February 2018 8:55 a.m.
To: 'martin@pgdb.co.nz'; 'complaints@pgdb.co.nz'; 'comms@pgdb.co.nz'; 'PGDB Competency Based Licensing'; 'ceo@pgdb.co.nz'; 'exams@pgdb.co.nz'; 'gascerts@pgdb.co.nz'; 'Hannah Neville'; 'jayson@pgdb.co.nz'; 'licensing'; 'overseas@pgdb.co.nz'; 'Registrar'; 'accounts@pgdb.co.nz'
Cc: 'jacinda.ardern@parliament.govt.nz'; 'Andrew Little'; 'Julia Minko'; 'jenny.salesa@parliament.govt.nz'; 'phil.twyford@parliament.govt.nz'; 'Wal Gordon'; 'Allan Day'; 'Colleen Upton'; 'Chris Griggs'; 'lynnmoff'; 'Faculty of Law'; 'Paul Warhurst'
Subject: FW: OIA request for Handwriting report
Martin,
Thank you for the recent handwriting report, attached…..please can you explain the ethics of the PGDB using one of my warning letters, attached (a letter warning about dodgy certs covering dangerous gas work) which was sent 5 years before an explosion nearly killed someone.
This letter was used by the PGDB as a reference document for a handwriting report (a very directed and focused report only on me only, done well before BOTH mine and Darnley’s hearing) ….trying to pin that explosion on me. Really? Using my warning to try to implicate me for what I was warning about? Then withholding that report, not divulging it until now, after an OIA request?
Why wasn’t any of Darnley’s handwriting/doc’s reviewed….like the cert for the pizza oven (which the PGDB lost) or the actual job card that shows Darnley’s hand for the addition of the fryers that caused the explosion.
The use of this letter is nearly as bad as relying on child molestation case notes to prove probability in a plumbing context, nearly!
All the evidence is here for those who want to look in the email below and evidence attached.
While I have your ear, I am yet to hear from you about the gas caused fire in Nelson where I asked the question in an email, quoted below, on the 20th Jan 2018.
How many fires caused by a gas leak were there in Nelson on that date? This should narrow it down for you…..if there was no investigation (similar to mine) then why not? It made the Notifiable gas accidents report from Energy Safety attached, emphasis on notifiable. The reference I sent in early December was taken from this report.
I have also just recently found out from someone I trust, that Darnley….who most if not all evidence points to for the Milton Street explosion, and is probably involved in the fire above (please can you confirm)….that the reason he was visited (and as a result gifted his full certifying gas license by Hammond with no apprentice sat after one oral exam, by none other than the same Hammond appointed to investigate the explosion)……well he was making up his own certs….on an exemption license….whilst selling gas….(Hammond also lobbied for deregulation form a gas retailers point of view). Confused? Call me on it….I’ll fly up and walk you through the huge amount of evidence.
So to recap…..
Please explain the ethics on utilising my warning to try to pin the signature on me for the dodgy certs.
Confirm who caused the fire.
Was Darnley issuing his own certs
Why are you protecting this man
I have copied in a few PGDB email addresses as I want this email tabled to the PGDB board at its next meeting. I want the perpetual Board take ownership of this debacle, not sweep it under the carpet.
You talk about trust and integrity you inherit the past and leave a legacy for the future with your present.
Injustice is corrupting if it is accepted....even if it is ignored…… it eats away at integrity, opening the doors to the dismantlers of good, just like rust corrupting the integrity of an otherwise strong steel durable structure.....its no plan for the future.
This is why we don't use this as a template for ongoing success, history tells us corruption ultimately fails and causes chaos.
Yours With Integrity
Paul Gee
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Paul & Emma Gee [mailto:gspservices@xtra.co.nz]
Sent: Wednesday, 14 February 2018 2:42 p.m.
To: 'Allan Day'
Cc: 'Wal Gordon'; 'Colleen Upton'
Subject: RE: OIA request for Handwriting report
Hi Allan,
I have copied in Wal and Colleen so we can see it all in one place.
The sick minded people behind this used one of my “warning” letters so they could pin the signatures on the certificates on me….I distinctly remember that the investigator (investigator he was not) stated that it was all about the signature……ignoring all the different inks and different handwriting.
This two page letter was one that I sent to warn about my concerns over 5 years before the explosion…..mentioned in reference docs for report, i.e. a two page letter stamped 09 01 04 (stamped by the PGDB)…..the letter being dated 06 01 04, the three days difference for it to be delivered to the PGDB and is the only letter I sent around that time.
This letter submitted by the investigator as a sample of my signature to give to the handwriting expert …..if you look at the letter….my concerns were later shown to be very well founded and actually bang on.
This report then goes on to raising doubt over my involvement, even saying the signatures were different and could have been copied by a skilled person (all be it doubtful)…..The investigator ignoring Darnley involvement totally (please see break down of my findings in my email to Wal).
Not forgetting this report was withheld and I have only just seen it.
Did I get a fair go?
All the Best
Paul
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Allan Day [mailto:allan-day@xtra.co.nz]
Sent: Tuesday, 16 January 2018 10:50 a.m.
To: Paul & Emma Gee
Subject: Re: OIA request for Handwriting report
Hi Paul
Thank you for including me into your email, please keep me advised as to the response.
I have been reading Wal's report/submission and I can tell you I find it upsetting at the injustice of those involved and the wheels with in wheels as they concealed and covered the truth.
Kind regards
Allan
On 15/01/2018, at 11:21 AM, Paul & Emma Gee <gspservices@xtra.co.nz> wrote:
Martin,
Please by way of an OIA request can I get a copy of the report from the forensic document examination and handwriting expert who the PGDB contracted to analyse documents for the investigation into the explosion at Milton Street.
It is the report that the PGDB were billed for 12 hours of consultation, examination and the resulting report for. The invoice from the handwriting expert was dated 20 September 2010, but as it was part of the investigation it should have been retained until the hearing which is within the 7 years limit.
I would have thought a copy would have been made available to me at the time, but it has never been passed on to me and I have never seen a copy. It is within 7 years to the hearing and I can assure you my request is neither frivolous nor am I being vexatious. I do not think the well worn excuse of it’s “too hard to find” is warranted either.
A man nearly died in a preventable explosion due to circumstances I had warned about for 6 years before that explosion. My family were terrorised and my life has been in turmoil since.
Please Martin do not continue this cover up. Please clear my name and give me my life back. I have done no wrong but my family has paid a hefty price.
Thank you
Yours with Integrity
Paul Gee
-
That should read "just found out"......
Have a read of the letter I sent over 5 years before the explosion....
-
That's the mettle of these people..... to utilise my letter trying to warn about dodgy certs covering dangerous work, to pin those certs on the writer of that letter, me, via my signature.....then not divulging the handwriting report and ignoring the questions that report raised....
Bear in mind there were two people charged with the explosion....but the handwriting report is solely aimed at me....then strangely enough the charge for the explosion for Darnley just disappears....
Read the letter sent to the PGDB in Jan 04, after I rang the PGDB in Dec 03 .....explosion in April 2009.....
Same people relied on child molestation case notes to prove a point on probability.
Now they won't own up to what they did, it needs a public inquiry.
HOW CAN YOU TRUST THESE PEOPLE?
.
-
If we can get this looked at under a select committee or public inquiry it will ultimately protect us all (NZ public included), and set the correct precedent for the future.
The precedent set now is they can do as they please and shaft who they like....this helps no one but the dodgy bullies who like it this way.
Which way is the best way?
I believe impartial, open and transparent fairness carried out with natural justice observed is best, their actions have shown that this is not their way, and this is the way (if this is allowed to stand) YOU can expect to be treated.
You can guarantee that if it suits them, they will hang you out to dry....regardless of how connected you think you are...
.
-
Here is my reply, to the PGDB's delusional embarrassing reply to the Federations report done into the fiasco of the cover up of a near fatal explosion, my hearing and inquisition (I know how to spell investigation).
I am going to try to load the report, it might not happen in one post, so may have to do in two parts...well it is 138 pages long and shows NINE people "of interest" that these people have ignored (I counted nine, you may find more).
Wal, you are a stalwart of the industry, thank you for doing this for my family and my sanity. I can now prove I did no wrong and direct anyone to how the PGDB fitted me up, protected the guilty and ignored some very serious situations when it suited their agenda.
Look who know and look who don't care....well if they do nothing, they can't care......
From: Paul & Emma Gee [mailto:gspservices@xtra.co.nz]
Sent: Thursday, 1 March 2018 10:30 a.m.
To: 'Paul & Emma Gee'; martin@pgdb.co.nz; complaints@pgdb.co.nz; comms@pgdb.co.nz; 'PGDB Competency Based Licensing'; ceo@pgdb.co.nz; exams@pgdb.co.nz; gascerts@pgdb.co.nz; 'Hannah Neville'; jayson@pgdb.co.nz; 'licensing'; overseas@pgdb.co.nz; 'Registrar'; accounts@pgdb.co.nz
Cc: jacinda.ardern@parliament.govt.nz; 'Andrew Little'; 'Julia Minko'; jenny.salesa@parliament.govt.nz; phil.twyford@parliament.govt.nz; 'Wal Gordon'; 'Allan Day'; 'Colleen Upton'; 'lynnmoff'; 'Faculty of Law'; 'Paul Warhurst'; 'Rt. Hon. Winston Peters'; iain.lees-galloway@parliament.govt.nz; feedback@theamshow.co.nz; admin@nelsoncommunitylaw.org.nz; admin@gbweekly.co.nz; 'Bridgette Toy-Cronin'; 'Bronwyn Jones'; belinda.feek@nzherald.co.nz; 'Barry Forman'; bronwyns@nelsonmail.co.nz; chiefreporter@nelsonmail.co.nz; chris.hipkins@parliament.govt.nz; eva@transparency.org.nz; editor@wildtomato.co.nz; executive@transparency.org.nz; 'Mac McIvor'; 'Faculty of Law'; greenparty@greens.org.nz; 'Guardian.Motueka'; 'Info'; inquiries@lawsociety.org.nz; info@wildtomato.co.nz; ian@news24seven.tv; 'Jehan Casinader'; 'Legal Issues Centre'; 'Laura Basham'; lance.windleburn@safetynaction.co.nz; 'master plumber'; members@masterplumbers.co.nz; nelson@lawsociety.org.nz; nicky@paradise.net.nz; newsdesk@nzherald.co.nz; news@tvnz.co.nz; newstips@stuff.co.nz; news@star-times.co.nz; OfficeoftheChiefCoroner@justice.govt.nz; pgower@mediaworks.co.nz; reporter@guardianmotueka.co.nz; sam.sherwood@fairfaxmedia.co.nz; sevensharp@tvnz.co.nz; sevensharp@tvnz.co.nz; team.wakeupnz@gmail.com; tatsuhiko.koyama@gmail.com; the.otago.master.plumbers@xtra.co.nz; yournews@nzherald.co.nz
Subject: RE: OIA request for Handwriting report
Dear All,
I am in receipt of a letter sent by the PGDB to Wal Gordon, the author of the very concise and accurate report attached. The PGDB letter is in reply to that report.
I ask you all if this PGDB reply is acceptable or fair or show even a hint of observance to natural justice.
Is it ok with you…..
• that the attached report indicates NINE possible people “of interest” that the PGDB have totally ignored whilst investigating a near fatal gas explosion? All done whilst protecting the person who most, if not all the evidence points to for being if not responsible, then at the very least involved in the circumstances leading up to that near fatal explosion?
• that the hearing and investigation was blatantly partial and biased whilst withholding and misrepresenting evidence? Nothing was addressed it was merely covered up, whilst ignoring massive conflicts of interest. Please see the unfounded comments from PGDB in their attached letter. Please compare the contents of the report to the reply. The reply is nothing short of deluded. I would be embarrassed to put my name to such an unfounded blatantly untrue letter.
• that a handwriting report was withheld, only seen very recently after an OIA request. This PGDB request for a $2400.00 handwriting report (which later showed doubts over my involvement)… despicably and very deviously utilised one of my many warning letters as a handwriting sample. Done to try to pin these very certificates (that I was warning about) on me via my signature, whilst ignoring a lot of unreliable information on those certificates.
• that my appeal in the high court was effectively shut down and restricted to an incorrect measurement that has since been proven to be correct. Done whilst ignoring a massive submission of my concerns to that court. Taking this last set of 2 charges into account with the 42 answered charges (out of 44 charges laid) then I did absolutely nothing wrong….even by the reckoning of the biased PGDB kangaroo court.
• that the PGDB relied on child molestation case notes to prove a point on probabilities in a gas/plumbing context. Opened by my wife and taken as a threat, just before we lost our home?
• that we as a country are now lumbered with a much more inferior system of gas certificates in a housing shortage. We have lost all the honesty mechanisms that showed the real offenders actions and the PGDB’s incompetence and mismanagement. We are as a country less served by this new system, is this ok? We are yet to see the repercussions of this, the unregistered and dangerous work is being installed as you read this letter…..what will your legacy be?
• that I lost my trade, our home and business and reputation? After warning, for 6 years before the explosion, that a situation was present that could cause that very explosion?
I literally could go on and on about how despicable and corrupt the system and process my family were subjected to but ask that just the points above be addressed.
Most of you copied in claim to be upholders of law, ethics and have the health and safety of the NZ people first and foremost in your thoughts and actions; please can someone look into this travesty?
The PGDB have closed ranks in this letter and refuse to talk to me. In my opinion an admission of guilt, if their ever was one. If someone claimed any of this against me and I was in the right….I would never ignore it, I would clear my name regardless. Just as I intend to do.
You can’t argue with corruption, only against it.
The attached PGDB letter of reply shows how deluded the PGDB are in their power, empowered in their impunity by people who just sit back and watch it happen.
Of Note: The warning letter (attached) was a warning made about unreliable certificates covering dangerous altered gasfitting work that could hurt someone. The explosion at the chipshop involved a very unreliable certificate 345138, covering a site of much altered gas work, which then exploded and hurt someone. This unreliable certificate claimed never to have been received by the PGDB. Ironically, there is a copy on their website and is mentioned by number in the DOL letter of complaint that initiated this fiasco. All available electronic copies and carbon copies missing a record of a test for gas leaks, at a site that exploded due to a gas leak, issued by a man gifted his license by the PGDB after one oral exam. This oral exam held by the same man later appointed by the PGDB to investigate the explosion…..natural justice? My warnings could not have been better tailored, did I deserve to be singled out as a scapegoat?
You seriously have to ask….
1. How does a certificate get entered on the PGDB website if it was never received by the PGDB? (this denial is what the lawyer for the blast victim was told, while the blast victim lay in a two week drug induced coma)
2. How would the PGDB look if they had accepted this unreliable certificate, that lacked a record of a test for leaks for a site that later exploded? All done after ignoring my warnings about unreliable certificates covering dangerous altered work. This is I believe the reason of singling me out as a scapegoat, two birds with one stone so to speak.
3. How would the PGDB look if that unreliable cert was issued by a person who the PGDB gifted a full certifying license to, with no formal apprenticeship served, after just one oral exam? Issued for a site that nearly killed someone.
4. How would the PGDB look if they appointed as an investigator for that near fatal explosion, the very same ex-PGDB member who held that one oral exam?
My Grandmother had a saying when she caught someone being dishonest……”Now we both know what you are”……. this is so very relevant to me and this ridiculous reply from the PGDB.
ALL DONE AT A VERY REAL RISK TO THE NZ PEOPLE’S HEALTH AND SAFETY, EVEN THEIR LIVES.
My conscience is clear; I have tried to do the right thing by the Kiwi general public for near 14 years, at a huge cost to my family. The ball is in the court of you that receive payment to manage and report these things for the betterment of the average Kiwi.
My account is paid in full; I only have change to give.
Yours with Integrity
Paul Gee
________________________________________
From: Paul & Emma Gee [mailto:gspservices@xtra.co.nz]
Sent: Thursday, 15 February 2018 8:55 a.m.
To: 'martin@pgdb.co.nz'; 'complaints@pgdb.co.nz'; 'comms@pgdb.co.nz'; 'PGDB Competency Based Licensing'; 'ceo@pgdb.co.nz'; 'exams@pgdb.co.nz'; 'gascerts@pgdb.co.nz'; 'Hannah Neville'; 'jayson@pgdb.co.nz'; 'licensing'; 'overseas@pgdb.co.nz'; 'Registrar'; 'accounts@pgdb.co.nz'
Cc: 'jacinda.ardern@parliament.govt.nz'; 'Andrew Little'; 'Julia Minko'; 'jenny.salesa@parliament.govt.nz'; 'phil.twyford@parliament.govt.nz'; 'Wal Gordon'; 'Allan Day'; 'Colleen Upton'; 'Chris Griggs'; 'lynnmoff'; 'Faculty of Law'; 'Paul Warhurst'
Subject: FW: OIA request for Handwriting report
Martin,
Thank you for the recent handwriting report, attached…..please can you explain the ethics of the PGDB using one of my warning letters, attached (a letter warning about dodgy certs covering dangerous gas work) which was sent 5 years before an explosion nearly killed someone.
This letter was used by the PGDB as a reference document for a handwriting report (a very directed and focused report only on me only, done well before BOTH mine and Darnley’s hearing) ….trying to pin that explosion on me. Really? Using my warning to try to implicate me for what I was warning about? Then withholding that report, not divulging it until now, after an OIA request?
Why wasn’t any of Darnley’s handwriting/doc’s reviewed….like the cert for the pizza oven (which the PGDB lost) or the actual job card that shows Darnley’s hand for the addition of the fryers that caused the explosion.
The use of this letter is nearly as bad as relying on child molestation case notes to prove probability in a plumbing context, nearly!
All the evidence is here for those who want to look in the email below and evidence attached.
While I have your ear, I am yet to hear from you about the gas caused fire in Nelson where I asked the question in an email, quoted below, on the 20th Jan 2018.
How many fires caused by a gas leak were there in Nelson on that date? This should narrow it down for you…..if there was no investigation (similar to mine) then why not? It made the Notifiable gas accidents report from Energy Safety attached, emphasis on notifiable. The reference I sent in early December was taken from this report.
I have also just recently found out from someone I trust, that Darnley….who most if not all evidence points to for the Milton Street explosion, and is probably involved in the fire above (please can you confirm)….that the reason he was visited (and as a result gifted his full certifying gas license by Hammond with no apprentice sat after one oral exam, by none other than the same Hammond appointed to investigate the explosion)……well he was making up his own certs….on an exemption license….whilst selling gas….(Hammond also lobbied for deregulation form a gas retailers point of view). Confused? Call me on it….I’ll fly up and walk you through the huge amount of evidence.
So to recap…..
1. Please explain the ethics on utilising my warning to try to pin the signature on me for the dodgy certs.
2. Confirm who caused the fire.
3. Was Darnley issuing his own certs
4. Why are you protecting this man
I have copied in a few PGDB email addresses as I want this email tabled to the PGDB board at its next meeting. I want the perpetual Board take ownership of this debacle, not sweep it under the carpet.
You talk about trust and integrity you inherit the past and leave a legacy for the future with your present.
Injustice is corrupting if it is accepted....even if it is ignored…… it eats away at integrity, opening the doors to the dismantlers of good, just like rust corrupting the integrity of an otherwise strong steel durable structure.....its no plan for the future.
This is why we don't use this as a template for ongoing success, history tells us corruption ultimately fails and causes chaos.
Yours With Integrity
Paul Gee
-
I think the Federation Report loaded, please let me know if it hasn't....this could be YOU if you let this stand.
We are better than this, we are being shat on by those who literally can't defecate or brush their teeth with out us, they look down on our trade and treat it with contempt, laughing at us over the muffins and poncey little triangle sandwiches with the crusts cut off....swilling it down with coffee at their little brunches....all paid for by us.
We deserve respect for what we do, not disdain.
It is easy spending other peoples money....bit like the $225,000.00 they spent on carrying this bullshit out....read the report, it will take some time, its taken 14 years of my life from my first warning....a warning that these twats used to try to pin certificates on my signature....ignoring different handwriting, different colour ink and bringing pink paper black photocopies to my interviews to hide that different colour ink....
Wal has done so much for you guys, you will never know how much......the report deserves to be loaded twice.
Wal, you have taught (and showed me) patience, blind true/good ethics working toward justice and due diligence and helped me so much. I class you as a very good mate and one of the best, the PGDB could learn a lot from you if they could just remove their heads from their own arses.
You did all this for no personal gain, for a total stranger.....because it was the right thing to do. Take note PGDB, this is what you should be doing, you could learn so much from him.
Thank you.
.
-
If you have taken the time to read the report....compare to the reply from the PGDB......
Was anything addressed at my kangaroo court? Delusional and embarrassing......
-
Call me out on this, please.....they all know that you know on here, the amount of respect they have for us and the amount of care they have for the public can be measured in their actions and non actions.
Remember this the next time you see them on TV pontificating about safety and the good that they do.....
From: Paul & Emma Gee [mailto:gspservices@xtra.co.nz]
Sent: Friday, 2 March 2018 2:08 p.m.
To: 'Paul & Emma Gee'; 'martin@pgdb.co.nz'; 'complaints@pgdb.co.nz'; 'comms@pgdb.co.nz'; 'PGDB Competency Based Licensing'; 'ceo@pgdb.co.nz'; 'exams@pgdb.co.nz'; 'gascerts@pgdb.co.nz'; 'Hannah Neville'; 'jayson@pgdb.co.nz'; 'licensing'; 'overseas@pgdb.co.nz'; 'Registrar'; 'accounts@pgdb.co.nz'
Cc: 'jacinda.ardern@parliament.govt.nz'; 'Andrew Little'; 'Julia Minko'; 'jenny.salesa@parliament.govt.nz'; 'phil.twyford@parliament.govt.nz'; 'Wal Gordon'; 'Allan Day'; 'Colleen Upton'; 'lynnmoff'; 'Faculty of Law'; 'Paul Warhurst'; 'Rt. Hon. Winston Peters'; 'iain.lees-galloway@parliament.govt.nz'; 'feedback@theamshow.co.nz'; 'admin@nelsoncommunitylaw.org.nz'; 'admin@gbweekly.co.nz'; 'Bridgette Toy-Cronin'; 'Bronwyn Jones'; 'belinda.feek@nzherald.co.nz'; 'Barry Forman'; 'bronwyns@nelsonmail.co.nz'; 'chiefreporter@nelsonmail.co.nz'; 'chris.hipkins@parliament.govt.nz'; 'eva@transparency.org.nz'; 'editor@wildtomato.co.nz'; 'executive@transparency.org.nz'; 'Mac McIvor'; 'Faculty of Law'; 'greenparty@greens.org.nz'; 'Guardian.Motueka'; 'Info'; 'inquiries@lawsociety.org.nz'; 'info@wildtomato.co.nz'; 'ian@news24seven.tv'; 'Jehan Casinader'; 'Legal Issues Centre'; 'Laura Basham'; 'lance.windleburn@safetynaction.co.nz'; 'master plumber'; 'members@masterplumbers.co.nz'; 'nelson@lawsociety.org.nz'; 'nicky@paradise.net.nz'; 'newsdesk@nzherald.co.nz'; 'news@tvnz.co.nz'; 'newstips@stuff.co.nz'; 'news@star-times.co.nz'; 'OfficeoftheChiefCoroner@justice.govt.nz'; 'pgower@mediaworks.co.nz'; 'reporter@guardianmotueka.co.nz'; 'sam.sherwood@fairfaxmedia.co.nz'; 'sevensharp@tvnz.co.nz'; 'sevensharp@tvnz.co.nz'; 'team.wakeupnz@gmail.com'; 'tatsuhiko.koyama@gmail.com'; 'the.otago.master.plumbers@xtra.co.nz'; 'yournews@nzherald.co.nz'
Subject: RE: OIA request for Handwriting report
Dear All
Here is a link below where I have posted this email and the Federation report and a massive amount of evidence, it has nearly 67 thousand views and your actions/non actions can be considered to be done in front of a large part of the industry, as it is specifically a “plumbers” forum.
Openly you all talk about natural justice, doing the right thing, being a good person, sticking up for the average Kiwi. Well here is your chance.
The gas certificate system we have now is a joke, the dodgy work of future accidents, perhaps even deaths, is being installed as we speak, mark my words.
You have an obligation by the roles you get paid very good money to carry out, to make sure this doesn’t happen to the people you profess to care for and be responsible for. Please call me on my accusations. I am happy to travel to anyone of you to explain (within reason my coffers are empty due to this travesty), how about I meet you all at once in Wellington? PGDB are invited to put their side forward at that meeting….lets have an open debate/meeting over this fiasco that puts the public at a very real risk.
Yours with Integrity Paul Gee
Here is the link…..
https://www.plumbers.co.nz/forum/fellow-practitioners-update/41/fellow-practitioner-issue-236-dated-12-december-2014/1810/msg11225#msg11225
Thank you for your time.
lets see what they think of safety and the trade
.
-
I believe only in an open forum can the sheer size of their ineptitude can be seen, their arguments are embarrassing and I would love them to sit opposite me and try to argue the point.
I also sent the email below to these people as well.
From: Paul & Emma Gee [mailto:gspservices@xtra.co.nz]
Sent: Friday, 2 March 2018 2:20 p.m.
To: 'To: "Rt. Hon Jacinda Ardern'; 'Cc:'; 'publicaffairs@imf.org'; 'msanchezbender@worldbank.org'; 'ti@transparency.org'; 'Andrew Straw'; 'delegation-new-zealand@eeas.europa.eu'; 'correspondence@ustr.eop.gov'; 'singov_webmaster@mci.gov.sg'; 'washington.contact@oecd.org'; 'enquiries@wto.org'; 'consular@wl.mofa.go.jp'; 'cmann@transparency.org'; 'rhodess@transparency.org'; 'news@newshub.co.nz'; 'news@tvnz.co.nz'; 'Nicky Hager'; 'contact@newsroom.co.nz'; 'nytnews@nytimes.com'; 'editorial@nytimes.com'; 'editorial@investigatemagazine.com'; 'fcocorrespondence@fco.gov.uk'; 'aucklandacs@state.gov'; 'wlgtn@international.gc.ca'; 'info@wellington.mfa.gov.il'; 'hamish.fletcher@nzherald.co.nz'; 'Lincoln.Tan@nzherald.co.nz'; 'newsdesk@smh.com.au'; 'bizpost@scmp.com'; 'letters@washpost.com'; 'wsj.ltrs@wsj.com'; 'editorial.assistantnewsroom@ft.com'; 'Editor'; 'front.desk@aic.gov.au'; 'info@shmuley.com'; 'nzjc@ajc.org.nz'; 'Rt. Hon. Winston Peters'; 'theprojectnz@mediaworks.co.nz'; 'Grace Haden'; 'victoria@nbr.co.nz'; 'Penny Bright'; 'RangiMarie aka Lady Justice'; 'Eric Marchant'; 'Paul King'; 'Lynette Stevens'; 'Gordon McNab'; 'ratings_request@spglobal.com'; 'Gavin Hillary'; 'Alanah.Eriksen@nzherald.co.nz'; 'Newsdesk - The New Zealand Herald'; 'a.little@ministers.govt.nz'; 'andrew.little@parliament.govt.nz'; 'David Clark'; 'David Clark'; 'aebra.coe@law360.com'; 'letters@listener.co.nz'; 'australia@theguardian.com'; 'Marsa Dodson'; 'info@commonwealth.int'; 'Chief Justice'; 'mail@lawcouncil.asn.au'; 'enquiries@supremecourt.uk'; 'diane.macdonald@unsw.edu.au'; 'namati@namati.org'; 'contactus@amnesty.org'; 'david.parker@parliament.govt.nz'; 'Mike.bush@police.govt.nz'; 'Vicky.McMillan@police.govt.nz'; 'Elizabeth.Binks@police.govt.nz'; 'Compliance@fma.govt.nz'; 'State services commission'; 'Serious Fraud Office'; 'Megan Woods'; 'megan.woods@parliament.govt.nz'; 'Contact@thefreethoughtproject.com'; 'duncan.webb@parliament.govt.nz'; 'chchcentral@parliament.govt.nz'; 'Eva Lu'; 'kathryn.dalziel@canterbury.ac.nz'; 'selene.mize@otago.ac.nz'; 'Mark Henaghan'; 'karen.warrington@otago.ac.nz'; 'Kathryn Beck'; 'deborah@sbmlegal.co.nz'; 'WellingtonHC@justice.govt.nz'; 'Blossom lightdancers'; 'grant.robertson@parliament.govt.nz'; 'office@grantrobertson.co.nz'; 'labour.whanganui@parliament.govt.nz'; 'Stuart Nash'; 'Winston Peters'; 'stuart.nash@parliament.govt.nz'; 'kelvin.davis@parliament.govt.nz'; 'Office.Davis@parliament.govt.nz'
Subject: FW: OIA request for Handwriting report
FYI……please see a recent email sent to those listed below, sorry if I have sent this email to you twice.
.
-
You can't argue with corruption, only against it....and those who have no principles, always underestimate those that do have principles....
I will never let this go, that's ever.....
I tried to warn about dodgy certs covering dangerous altered gas work for 6 years before an explosion nearly killed someone, after being altered and covered by the dodgiest of certs........and I am not about to start to wear it now, not ever......
Total tossers.
.
-
Here is the link to the report, its an easy way to share the info and not have to send the whole file.....please share as much as possible.....send it to your local MP and tell them you don't want it to happen to you....
https://www.plumbers.co.nz/forum/1810.0/a3137/Paul-Gee-Summary-December-2017-Final.pdf
Thanks again Wal, you only have your name and reputation and you have given me mine back, thank you. To those that tried to take them I hope you are now seen for what you are....
My dear old Nan had a saying if she caught you being dishonest OR LYING ....
NOW WE BOTH NOW WHAT YOU ARE
.
-
LOL it looks like my Nan was dyslexic, must run in the family....
What I meant to write was....when my Nan caught you lying she would say....
Now we both KNOW what you are!
Dodgy dirty little devious bastards, more interested in themselves and their egos than the industry, the NZ public or Natural Justice.
Oh and you fund them fully....
.
.
-
_
So Nick Smith agreed that the PGDB would have no convictions over turned under appeal......was that at all costs, regardless of evidence and blatant conflicts of interest?
Read attachment, its page 5 of the agreement....I did try to attach the whole doc but my computer was telling me not to because of a virus?? WTF ?
All referenced docs are attached and the report as you have seen is this one on this link
https://www.plumbers.co.nz/forum/1810.0/a3137/Paul-Gee-Summary-December-2017-Final.pdf_
______________________________________
From: Paul & Emma Gee [mailto:gspservices@xtra.co.nz]
Sent: Tuesday, 13 March 2018 1:19 p.m.
To: 'Paul & Emma Gee'; 'martin@pgdb.co.nz'; 'complaints@pgdb.co.nz'; 'comms@pgdb.co.nz'; 'PGDB Competency Based Licensing'; 'ceo@pgdb.co.nz'; 'exams@pgdb.co.nz'; 'gascerts@pgdb.co.nz'; 'Hannah Neville'; 'jayson@pgdb.co.nz'; 'licensing'; 'overseas@pgdb.co.nz'; 'Registrar'; 'accounts@pgdb.co.nz'
Cc: 'jacinda.ardern@parliament.govt.nz'; 'Andrew Little'; 'Julia Minko'; 'jenny.salesa@parliament.govt.nz'; 'phil.twyford@parliament.govt.nz'; 'Wal Gordon'; 'Allan Day'; 'Colleen Upton'; 'Chris Griggs'; 'lynnmoff'; 'Faculty of Law'
Subject: RE: OIA request for Handwriting report
Martin,
Please take my email below as a complaint on the use of one of my warnings to pin the near fatal explosion on me (the outrageous outline is found below in my email please regard ALL questions as a complaint)……
So to recap…..
1. I complain about the ethics on utilising my warning to try to pin the signature on me for the dodgy certs, that those warnings mentioned.
2. I complain about the person who caused the fire mentioned below.
3. I complain that Darnley may have been issuing his own certs.
4. I complain that the PGDB is protecting Darnley.
I would add to that complaint your inaction to this email below. I am of the opinion after reading your policy, that my complaining about your inaction, removes you Martin from dealing with that complaint and ensures it goes before the Board. Just as the PGDB needed to see the report by the Federation, it needs to deal with these complaints in light of this report.
I have attached the PGDB’s own policy on complaints and the report for your convenience and it is under that policy that I make these complaints.
I also guide you to your most recent available agreement, page 5 attached, with the minister (Nick Smith), are the comments about appeals under “Complaints and Discipline” not to be over turned done at all costs…ignoring natural justice?
The policies and agreements that the PGDB ignore at will, whilst pontificating to the public is sickening.
Was my case too late to meet these policies? Yes it was…..but common decency has always existed, along with ethics and natural justice…..do the PGDB need a rule book to show these aspects fundamental to a well meaning humanity?
Yours with Integrity
Paul Gee
________________________________________
From: Paul & Emma Gee [mailto:gspservices@xtra.co.nz]
Sent: Thursday, 15 February 2018 8:55 a.m.
To: 'martin@pgdb.co.nz'; 'complaints@pgdb.co.nz'; 'comms@pgdb.co.nz'; 'PGDB Competency Based Licensing'; 'ceo@pgdb.co.nz'; 'exams@pgdb.co.nz'; 'gascerts@pgdb.co.nz'; 'Hannah Neville'; 'jayson@pgdb.co.nz'; 'licensing'; 'overseas@pgdb.co.nz'; 'Registrar'; 'accounts@pgdb.co.nz'
Cc: 'jacinda.ardern@parliament.govt.nz'; 'Andrew Little'; 'Julia Minko'; 'jenny.salesa@parliament.govt.nz'; 'phil.twyford@parliament.govt.nz'; 'Wal Gordon'; 'Allan Day'; 'Colleen Upton'; 'Chris Griggs'; 'lynnmoff'; 'Faculty of Law'; 'Paul Warhurst'
Subject: FW: OIA request for Handwriting report
Martin,
Thank you for the recent handwriting report, attached…..please can you explain the ethics of the PGDB using one of my warning letters, attached (a letter warning about dodgy certs covering dangerous gas work) which was sent 5 years before an explosion nearly killed someone.
This letter was used by the PGDB as a reference document for a handwriting report (a very directed and focused report only on me only, done well before BOTH mine and Darnley’s hearing) ….trying to pin that explosion on me. Really? Using my warning to try to implicate me for what I was warning about? Then withholding that report, not divulging it until now, after an OIA request?
Why wasn’t any of Darnley’s handwriting/doc’s reviewed….like the cert for the pizza oven (which the PGDB lost) or the actual job card that shows Darnley’s hand for the addition of the fryers that caused the explosion.
The use of this letter is nearly as bad as relying on child molestation case notes to prove probability in a plumbing context, nearly!
All the evidence is here for those who want to look in the email below and evidence attached.
While I have your ear, I am yet to hear from you about the gas caused fire in Nelson where I asked the question in an email, quoted below, on the 20th Jan 2018.
How many fires caused by a gas leak were there in Nelson on that date? This should narrow it down for you…..if there was no investigation (similar to mine) then why not? It made the Notifiable gas accidents report from Energy Safety attached, emphasis on notifiable. The reference I sent in early December was taken from this report.
I have also just recently found out from someone I trust, that Darnley….who most if not all evidence points to for the Milton Street explosion, and is probably involved in the fire above (please can you confirm)….that the reason he was visited (and as a result gifted his full certifying gas license by Hammond with no apprentice sat after one oral exam, by none other than the same Hammond appointed to investigate the explosion)……well he was making up his own certs….on an exemption license….whilst selling gas….(Hammond also lobbied for deregulation form a gas retailers point of view). Confused? Call me on it….I’ll fly up and walk you through the huge amount of evidence.
So to recap…..
1. Please explain the ethics on utilising my warning to try to pin the signature on me for the dodgy certs.
2. Confirm who caused the fire.
3. Was Darnley issuing his own certs
4. Why are you protecting this man
I have copied in a few PGDB email addresses as I want this email tabled to the PGDB board at its next meeting. I want the perpetual Board take ownership of this debacle, not sweep it under the carpet.
You talk about trust and integrity you inherit the past and leave a legacy for the future with your present.
Injustice is corrupting if it is accepted....even if it is ignored…… it eats away at integrity, opening the doors to the dismantlers of good, just like rust corrupting the integrity of an otherwise strong steel durable structure.....its no plan for the future.
This is why we don't use this as a template for ongoing success, history tells us corruption ultimately fails and causes chaos.
Yours With Integrity
Paul Gee
-
Apparently My Twyford is the guy to ask.....
________________________________________
From: Paul & Emma Gee [mailto:gspservices@xtra.co.nz]
Sent: Monday, 19 March 2018 4:46 p.m.
To: 'phil.twyford@parliament.govt.nz'
Cc: 'Winston Peters'; 'Wal Gordon'
Subject: FW: Acknowledgement from office of Rt Honourable Winston Peters
Dear Mr Twyford,
I have been directed to your Office by Mr Peters, please see email stream below.
Please see attached a very brief story of what was inflicted on my family and a report on the shortcomings of the so called hearing I was subjected to which ignored 9 people of interest and protected the guilty. I have a massive amount of evidence to back these attached documents. I welcome questions and am happy to clarify any queries you might have.
We have now deteriorated to a far worse inferior certificate system which is I believe much more prone to abuse….. in a housing shortage, covered up by those to whom we entrust our safety in our homes…..it is so very wrong.
This link below has well over 67 thousand views and I can assure you if anything said on this link was not true the PGDB would sue for defamation, but it isn’t defamation if it is true.
https://www.plumbers.co.nz/forum/fellow-practitioners-update/41/fellow-practitioner-issue-236-dated-12-december-2014/1810/msg11236#msg11236
I am trying to expose these people for what they are. Please can you help me?
Thank you for your time.
Best Regards Paul Gee
0274333350
________________________________________
From: W Peters (MIN) [mailto:W.Peters@ministers.govt.nz]
Sent: Monday, 19 March 2018 3:52 p.m.
To: gspservices@xtra.co.nz
Subject: Acknowledgement from office of Rt Honourable Winston Peters
Dear Paul Gee,
On behalf of Rt Hon Winston Peters, Deputy Prime Minister, thank you for your email of 13 March 2018.
As it is an operational matter, the Minister is unable to comment. However the matters you raised come under the portfolio responsibilities of Hon Phil Twyford, Minister for Housing and Urban Development. You may be able to approach his office for advice.
Office of Rt Hon Winston Peters
Deputy Prime Minister I Minister of Foreign Affairs
Minister for State Owned Enterprises I Minister for Racing
L7.4 Executive Wing I Parliament Buildings I Wellington I New Zealand
From: Paul & Emma Gee [mailto:gspservices@xtra.co.nz]
Sent: Tuesday, 13 March 2018 1:27 PM
To: Rt. Hon. Winston Peters <Winston.Peters@parliament.govt.nz>
Subject: FW: OIA request for Handwriting report
Dear Mr Peters,
Please see the inaction I am witnessing whilst trying to get to the bottom of a very dodgy dealings with the PGDB.
Please can you help me?
Kind Regards Paul Gee
________________________________________
From: Paul & Emma Gee [mailto:gspservices@xtra.co.nz]
Sent: Tuesday, 13 March 2018 1:19 p.m.
To: 'Paul & Emma Gee'; 'martin@pgdb.co.nz'; 'complaints@pgdb.co.nz'; 'comms@pgdb.co.nz'; 'PGDB Competency Based Licensing'; 'ceo@pgdb.co.nz'; 'exams@pgdb.co.nz'; 'gascerts@pgdb.co.nz'; 'Hannah Neville'; 'jayson@pgdb.co.nz'; 'licensing'; 'overseas@pgdb.co.nz'; 'Registrar'; 'accounts@pgdb.co.nz'
Cc: 'jacinda.ardern@parliament.govt.nz'; 'Andrew Little'; 'Julia Minko'; 'jenny.salesa@parliament.govt.nz'; 'phil.twyford@parliament.govt.nz'; 'Wal Gordon'; 'Allan Day'; 'Colleen Upton'; 'Chris Griggs'; 'lynnmoff'; 'Faculty of Law'
Subject: RE: OIA request for Handwriting report
Martin,
Please take my email below as a complaint on the use of one of my warnings to pin the near fatal explosion on me (the outrageous outline is found below in my email please regard ALL questions as a complaint)……
So to recap…..
1. I complain about the ethics on utilising my warning to try to pin the signature on me for the dodgy certs, that those warnings mentioned.
2. I complain about the person who caused the fire mentioned below.
3. I complain that Darnley may have been issuing his own certs.
4. I complain that the PGDB is protecting Darnley.
I would add to that complaint your inaction to this email below. I am of the opinion after reading your policy, that my complaining about your inaction, removes you Martin from dealing with that complaint and ensures it goes before the Board. Just as the PGDB needed to see the report by the Federation, it needs to deal with these complaints in light of this report.
I have attached the PGDB’s own policy on complaints and the report for your convenience and it is under that policy that I make these complaints.
I also guide you to your most recent available agreement, page 5 attached, with the minister (Nick Smith), are the comments about appeals under “Complaints and Discipline” not to be over turned done at all costs…ignoring natural justice?
The policies and agreements that the PGDB ignore at will, whilst pontificating to the public is sickening.
Was my case too late to meet these policies? Yes it was…..but common decency has always existed, along with ethics and natural justice…..do the PGDB need a rule book to show these aspects fundamental to a well meaning humanity?
Yours with Integrity
Paul Gee
-
I just have to shake my head in disbelief . how can the board expect us to be responsible & honest when they are clearly not . to say its already sorted,historical or they cant relook at it is just frankly bullshit . we also have to remember that there are current board members & staff that were employed at the time that this total wank went on so how does it look that no one was held responsible ? so fess up , pay up ( at least to the tune of the mans home ) just employ one less ex copper or I will happily pay a increased rego cost even though its the governments responsibility & write the man a formal apology until then I have to believe its the same old back door ,old boys , pillow bite funny handshake club it has always been . we as a industry will not move forward . I am ashamed to be part of it & try to steer away any young people who want to get involved . its well overdue to do the right thing
-
Thank you Ford 1
The thing is....you cant argue with corrupts, only against them....or its a sham.....and believe me it is most definitely a sham.....come on PGDB take me to court for slander.....you are as dodgy as* (as a perpetual board),
*disclaimer for so called legal reasons....if you help to suppress corruption then you are party to that corruption....up to your f****ing neck!
Now you would all know how free they are with our money in chasing after slanderers....using the lawyers we pay for to keep us in check.....well here you have it.
If you stand by this bullshit.....YOU ARE CORRUPT, TOTALLY CORRUPT......take me to court you dodgy cunts.....they know this is here, I have sent them the link.
.
-
This is how ridiculous it has got.......have a read of the emails below, it is embarrassing...these people govern us...I will attach the PGDB letters in the next post...
How can you excuse your self from answering someone and give a multi choice answer....I would have thought using my "shit always runs down hill" logical mind....you would specify which one A, B or C....
Can you imagine telling your missis...No Luv I can't hang out the washing because it is either torrential rain out there, a small tornado is present or I just saw a large predatory bird circling, calling my name.....I am pretty sure she'd want to know which EXCUSE you were actually using...(option D is nearer the truth...I just don't want to do it)......
________________________________________
From: Paul & Emma Gee [mailto:gspservices@xtra.co.nz]
Sent: Wednesday, 28 March 2018 8:01 a.m.
To: 'Paul & Emma Gee'; 'martin@pgdb.co.nz'; 'complaints@pgdb.co.nz'; 'comms@pgdb.co.nz'; 'PGDB Competency Based Licensing'; 'ceo@pgdb.co.nz'; 'exams@pgdb.co.nz'; 'gascerts@pgdb.co.nz'; 'Hannah Neville'; 'jayson@pgdb.co.nz'; 'licensing'; 'overseas@pgdb.co.nz'; 'Registrar'; 'accounts@pgdb.co.nz'
Cc: 'jacinda.ardern@parliament.govt.nz'; 'Andrew Little'; 'Julia Minko'; 'jenny.salesa@parliament.govt.nz'; 'phil.twyford@parliament.govt.nz'; 'Wal Gordon'; 'Allan Day'; 'Colleen Upton'; 'lynnmoff'; 'Faculty of Law'; 'Winston Peters'; 'Kaitlin Ruddock'
Subject: RE: PGDB reply to my complaints 2018 03 13
Martin,
Please can you or Peter Jackson clarify whether my complaint is trivial, frivolous or vexatious? It can not be all three.
It smacks of the PGDB’s willingness to hide behind policy and rolling out yet another policy to cover this up? Just as you are with my other complaints “falling out side” of the general complaints policy. They are still very valid complaints, if you don’t have a policy to cover it, then make one.
I believe to cover up a near fatal explosion, while protecting the guilty, ignoring huge conflicts of interest, all done at the expense of the innocent, whilst telling untruths to the persons lawyer who was injured in that explosion while he lay in a drug induced coma, done to cover up the PGDB’s maladministration of the certificate system and the flippant handing out of full certifying licenses to the unqualified….totally despicable if not corrupt. That’s my policy and it should be everyone else’s policy that is copied in to this email….or you are happy with this? Are you happy with that long winded sentence, I will take your silence as a yes.
I can prove all of the above, and am happy to provide. It is not trivial, frivolous or vexatious to speak the truth to those that choose to ignore it.
It is not trivial to blow someone up, it is very serious. To want this PROPERLY looked into is not frivolous (the PGDB ignoring 9 people of interest at the hearing). It is not vexatious, I believe it is quite important, even imperative to get to the bottom of this, to expose those covering this up is not stirring up trouble for the sake of it…..its called seeking the truth with integrity and accountability.
I believe the PGDB treated this situation as trivial, by ignoring the huge amount of evidence. The PGDB is to be found acting in a frivolous manner toward a very important duty entrusted to them to protect the NZ public and displayed a nature of being vexatious when they pursued me in the local press after I went 42 out of 44 charges at their kangaroo court as an innocent man (the last charge being utter B.S.).
But it appears these three words only apply to us lowly plebs and not the hypocrites that govern us.
Yours with Integrity Paul Gee
________________________________________
From: Paul & Emma Gee [mailto:gspservices@xtra.co.nz]
Sent: Tuesday, 27 March 2018 5:03 p.m.
To: 'Paul & Emma Gee'; 'martin@pgdb.co.nz'; 'complaints@pgdb.co.nz'; 'comms@pgdb.co.nz'; 'PGDB Competency Based Licensing'; 'ceo@pgdb.co.nz'; 'exams@pgdb.co.nz'; 'gascerts@pgdb.co.nz'; 'Hannah Neville'; 'jayson@pgdb.co.nz'; 'licensing'; 'overseas@pgdb.co.nz'; 'Registrar'; 'accounts@pgdb.co.nz'
Cc: 'jacinda.ardern@parliament.govt.nz'; 'Andrew Little'; 'Julia Minko'; 'jenny.salesa@parliament.govt.nz'; 'phil.twyford@parliament.govt.nz'; 'Wal Gordon'; 'Allan Day'; 'Colleen Upton'; 'lynnmoff'; 'Faculty of Law'; 'Winston Peters'; 'Kaitlin Ruddock'
Subject: PGDB reply to my complaints 2018 03 13
Hi All,
I will let you all decide if my complaints are trivial, frivolous or vexatious as per the letters sent by the PGDB in response to the email below and received by me today….it involves a cover up of a near fatal explosion and the dire state of the gas certificate system and flippant issuing of licenses to people shown preference by the PGDB whilst others more deserving are refused.
I remake these complaints under natural justice or any policy that I need to, to allow you look at this and not cover it up. It is so wrong to cover this up, just plain wrong.
Yours with Integrity Paul Gee
________________________________________
From: Paul & Emma Gee [mailto:gspservices@xtra.co.nz]
Sent: Tuesday, 13 March 2018 1:19 p.m.
To: 'Paul & Emma Gee'; 'martin@pgdb.co.nz'; 'complaints@pgdb.co.nz'; 'comms@pgdb.co.nz'; 'PGDB Competency Based Licensing'; 'ceo@pgdb.co.nz'; 'exams@pgdb.co.nz'; 'gascerts@pgdb.co.nz'; 'Hannah Neville'; 'jayson@pgdb.co.nz'; 'licensing'; 'overseas@pgdb.co.nz'; 'Registrar'; 'accounts@pgdb.co.nz'
Cc: 'jacinda.ardern@parliament.govt.nz'; 'Andrew Little'; 'Julia Minko'; 'jenny.salesa@parliament.govt.nz'; 'phil.twyford@parliament.govt.nz'; 'Wal Gordon'; 'Allan Day'; 'Colleen Upton'; 'Chris Griggs'; 'lynnmoff'; 'Faculty of Law'
Subject: RE: OIA request for Handwriting report
Martin,
Please take my email below as a complaint on the use of one of my warnings to pin the near fatal explosion on me (the outrageous outline is found below in my email please regard ALL questions as a complaint)……
So to recap…..
1. I complain about the ethics on utilising my warning to try to pin the signature on me for the dodgy certs, that those warnings mentioned.
2. I complain about the person who caused the fire mentioned below.
3. I complain that Darnley may have been issuing his own certs.
4. I complain that the PGDB is protecting Darnley.
I would add to that complaint your inaction to this email below. I am of the opinion after reading your policy, that my complaining about your inaction, removes you Martin from dealing with that complaint and ensures it goes before the Board. Just as the PGDB needed to see the report by the Federation, it needs to deal with these complaints in light of this report.
I have attached the PGDB’s own policy on complaints and the report for your convenience and it is under that policy that I make these complaints.
I also guide you to your most recent available agreement, page 5 attached, with the minister (Nick Smith), are the comments about appeals under “Complaints and Discipline” not to be over turned done at all costs…ignoring natural justice?
The policies and agreements that the PGDB ignore at will, whilst pontificating to the public is sickening.
Was my case too late to meet these policies? Yes it was…..but common decency has always existed, along with ethics and natural justice…..do the PGDB need a rule book to show these aspects fundamental to a well meaning humanity?
Yours with Integrity
Paul Gee
________________________________________
From: Paul & Emma Gee [mailto:gspservices@xtra.co.nz]
Sent: Thursday, 15 February 2018 8:55 a.m.
To: 'martin@pgdb.co.nz'; 'complaints@pgdb.co.nz'; 'comms@pgdb.co.nz'; 'PGDB Competency Based Licensing'; 'ceo@pgdb.co.nz'; 'exams@pgdb.co.nz'; 'gascerts@pgdb.co.nz'; 'Hannah Neville'; 'jayson@pgdb.co.nz'; 'licensing'; 'overseas@pgdb.co.nz'; 'Registrar'; 'accounts@pgdb.co.nz'
Cc: 'jacinda.ardern@parliament.govt.nz'; 'Andrew Little'; 'Julia Minko'; 'jenny.salesa@parliament.govt.nz'; 'phil.twyford@parliament.govt.nz'; 'Wal Gordon'; 'Allan Day'; 'Colleen Upton'; 'Chris Griggs'; 'lynnmoff'; 'Faculty of Law'; 'Paul Warhurst'
Subject: FW: OIA request for Handwriting report
Martin,
Thank you for the recent handwriting report, attached…..please can you explain the ethics of the PGDB using one of my warning letters, attached (a letter warning about dodgy certs covering dangerous gas work) which was sent 5 years before an explosion nearly killed someone.
This letter was used by the PGDB as a reference document for a handwriting report (a very directed and focused report only on me only, done well before BOTH mine and Darnley’s hearing) ….trying to pin that explosion on me. Really? Using my warning to try to implicate me for what I was warning about? Then withholding that report, not divulging it until now, after an OIA request?
Why wasn’t any of Darnley’s handwriting/doc’s reviewed….like the cert for the pizza oven (which the PGDB lost) or the actual job card that shows Darnley’s hand for the addition of the fryers that caused the explosion.
The use of this letter is nearly as bad as relying on child molestation case notes to prove probability in a plumbing context, nearly!
All the evidence is here for those who want to look in the email below and evidence attached.
While I have your ear, I am yet to hear from you about the gas caused fire in Nelson where I asked the question in an email, quoted below, on the 20th Jan 2018.
How many fires caused by a gas leak were there in Nelson on that date? This should narrow it down for you…..if there was no investigation (similar to mine) then why not? It made the Notifiable gas accidents report from Energy Safety attached, emphasis on notifiable. The reference I sent in early December was taken from this report.
I have also just recently found out from someone I trust, that Darnley….who most if not all evidence points to for the Milton Street explosion, and is probably involved in the fire above (please can you confirm)….that the reason he was visited (and as a result gifted his full certifying gas license by Hammond with no apprentice sat after one oral exam, by none other than the same Hammond appointed to investigate the explosion)……well he was making up his own certs….on an exemption license….whilst selling gas….(Hammond also lobbied for deregulation form a gas retailers point of view). Confused? Call me on it….I’ll fly up and walk you through the huge amount of evidence.
So to recap…..
1. Please explain the ethics on utilising my warning to try to pin the signature on me for the dodgy certs.
2. Confirm who caused the fire.
3. Was Darnley issuing his own certs
4. Why are you protecting this man
I have copied in a few PGDB email addresses as I want this email tabled to the PGDB board at its next meeting. I want the perpetual Board take ownership of this debacle, not sweep it under the carpet.
You talk about trust and integrity you inherit the past and leave a legacy for the future with your present.
Injustice is corrupting if it is accepted....even if it is ignored…… it eats away at integrity, opening the doors to the dismantlers of good, just like rust corrupting the integrity of an otherwise strong steel durable structure.....its no plan for the future.
This is why we don't use this as a template for ongoing success, history tells us corruption ultimately fails and causes chaos.
Yours With Integrity
Paul Gee
________________________________________
From: Paul & Emma Gee [mailto:gspservices@xtra.co.nz]
Sent: Wednesday, 14 February 2018 2:42 p.m.
To: 'Allan Day'
Cc: 'Wal Gordon'; 'Colleen Upton'
Subject: RE: OIA request for Handwriting report
Hi Allan,
I have copied in Wal and Colleen so we can see it all in one place.
The sick minded people behind this used one of my “warning” letters so they could pin the signatures on the certificates on me….I distinctly remember that the investigator (investigator he was not) stated that it was all about the signature……ignoring all the different inks and different handwriting.
This two page letter was one that I sent to warn about my concerns over 5 years before the explosion…..mentioned in reference docs for report, i.e. a two page letter stamped 09 01 04 (stamped by the PGDB)…..the letter being dated 06 01 04, the three days difference for it to be delivered to the PGDB and is the only letter I sent around that time.
This letter submitted by the investigator as a sample of my signature to give to the handwriting expert …..if you look at the letter….my concerns were later shown to be very well founded and actually bang on.
This report then goes on to raising doubt over my involvement, even saying the signatures were different and could have been copied by a skilled person (all be it doubtful)…..The investigator ignoring Darnley involvement totally (please see break down of my findings in my email to Wal).
Not forgetting this report was withheld and I have only just seen it.
Did I get a fair go?
All the Best
Paul
________________________________________
From: Allan Day [mailto:allan-day@xtra.co.nz]
Sent: Tuesday, 16 January 2018 10:50 a.m.
To: Paul & Emma Gee
Subject: Re: OIA request for Handwriting report
Hi Paul
Thank you for including me into your email, please keep me advised as to the response.
I have been reading Wal's report/submission and I can tell you I find it upsetting at the injustice of those involved and the wheels with in wheels as they concealed and covered the truth.
Kind regards
Allan
On 15/01/2018, at 11:21 AM, Paul & Emma Gee <gspservices@xtra.co.nz> wrote:
Martin,
Please by way of an OIA request can I get a copy of the report from the forensic document examination and handwriting expert who the PGDB contracted to analyse documents for the investigation into the explosion at Milton Street.
It is the report that the PGDB were billed for 12 hours of consultation, examination and the resulting report for. The invoice from the handwriting expert was dated 20 September 2010, but as it was part of the investigation it should have been retained until the hearing which is within the 7 years limit.
I would have thought a copy would have been made available to me at the time, but it has never been passed on to me and I have never seen a copy. It is within 7 years to the hearing and I can assure you my request is neither frivolous nor am I being vexatious. I do not think the well worn excuse of it’s “too hard to find” is warranted either.
A man nearly died in a preventable explosion due to circumstances I had warned about for 6 years before that explosion. My family were terrorised and my life has been in turmoil since.
Please Martin do not continue this cover up. Please clear my name and give me my life back. I have done no wrong but my family has paid a hefty price.
Thank you
Yours with Integrity
Paul Gee
-
I suppose we should have a policy as an Industry to not be governed by numpties....
Check out the letters in reply to my email below....this is the sort of level of governance we are funding...
See no Evil, Hear No Evil, Speak no Evil.......especially when its your own Evil......I would rather have the monkeys to be honest.
.
-
Apply the story on this link to what happened to me.....I have been saying it for years now.....and it will get worse....a housing shortage with an open market mentality, profit before standards (not by all, just the greedy) and you WILL MOST DEFINITLY HAVE A PROBLEM....
.....AND THOSE THAT GOVERN US ARE TO BLAME.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/property/102664221/wave-of-dodgy-building-materials-sparks-mbie-review
You need to address the mistakes of your past to be able to have a stable future, you can't built strong futures on dodgy foundations
.
-
Ask your self who would be more inclined to try to be dodgy......those who think they are connected and can "get away with it".......
Apparently I have heard of an ex-PGDB member.....one who pontificated on my situation......cost him 40k I was told.....I don't think he fought it as I have (because I know I am innocent).......
Makes you wonder eh?
.
-
April 9th 2009....a man nearly died and my whole world was turned up side down and has stayed that way since.
I was made a scape goat for something I had warned would happen for 6 years before it happened, warning of dodgy certs covering dangerous altered work....
My warnings could not have been better tailored to what happened...the PGDB had gifted a full license to someone who had never done an apprenticeship, they accepted (but later denied ever having received this cert... even though a copy is on their website!) an incomplete certificate (missing a test for gas leaks)...which exploded...all of my install was altered, the PGDB hid the photos that showed this and lets not forget the hose that caused the explosion was sold long after I left....so a very dodgy cert covering altered dangerous work exploded....its about as dangerous as it gets...
The PGDB appointed the same person who gifted the full certifying license as the Impartial investigator....lol.
The PGDB even used one of my letters of warning to sample my handwriting for my signature.....so they could pin the certs that I had warned about ....on me......
Just look at who knows all this.....and it appears don't care.....
Someone recently asked a visiting US President...."how do you handle the guilt?"........my meagre advise from a lowly tradesman in answer to that question......"don't do anything that your conscience tells you is bad, do the right thing, don't do anything that makes you feel guilty" .....
From: Paul & Emma Gee [mailto:gspservices@xtra.co.nz]
Sent: Tuesday, 3 April 2018 8:33 a.m.
To: 'Paul & Emma Gee'; 'martin@pgdb.co.nz'; 'complaints@pgdb.co.nz'; 'comms@pgdb.co.nz'; 'PGDB Competency Based Licensing'; 'ceo@pgdb.co.nz'; 'exams@pgdb.co.nz'; 'gascerts@pgdb.co.nz'; 'Hannah Neville'; 'jayson@pgdb.co.nz'; 'licensing'; 'overseas@pgdb.co.nz'; 'Registrar'; 'accounts@pgdb.co.nz'
Cc: 'jacinda.ardern@parliament.govt.nz'; 'Andrew Little'; 'Julia Minko'; 'jenny.salesa@parliament.govt.nz'; 'phil.twyford@parliament.govt.nz'; 'Wal Gordon'; 'Allan Day'; 'Colleen Upton'; 'lynnmoff'; 'Faculty of Law'; 'Winston Peters'; 'Kaitlin Ruddock'
Subject: RE: PGDB reply to my complaints 2018 03 13
Hi All,
Please can I get some sort of reply from those who are meant to over see all of this (obviously not the PGDB, I have their take on it, it is accompanied by a very large and lumpy carpet).
I am confused by Martins quote in this news story in the link below when you know what he is happy to ignore when it comes to these documents attached. It seems there is a hypocritical stance when you compare my story (1st attachment), with the hearing (2nd attachment).…I understand you already have these attachments that I have sent before, but I have included them for context, it is in light of these attachments that I am asking you to look at the story and comments in the link below.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/property/102664221/wave-of-dodgy-building-materials-sparks-mbie-review
These are people’s homes. Isn’t there a responsibility to these people to provide a proper robust way of providing these homes? It begs the question, how did we used to get it so right, but now get it so so wrong…think about it we are not progressing, the trades are in decline…..the answer is NOT to import cheap labour nor cheap products…..who controls OUR boarders? You can not even bring in an apple in to NZ without following the proper channels…but you can ship in tons of cheap and inferior products apparently…..but its OK as long as we have a tradesman to blame for installing/using it? Really?
Why aren’t we starting schools of excellence for training our children to build our homes, their own homes of their own futures? The last ten years have been an utter failure and it needs fixing, not brushing under the carpet.
Hypocrites need to be ousted and replaced. Where has the pride gone from our trade? Pride in workmanship and creating things that last? Built with quality in mind and not squeezing out every last drop of profit….which sometimes is done to meet unrealistic governance/compliance and H&S costs. I feel for these guys caught between a rock and a hard place….but then you have the greedy also, what is being done to help the honest and clamp down on the greedy?
We have a housing shortage of 40 to 60 thousand homes (depending on who you listen to, I think its probably more)…you have the fiasco of the CHCH rebuild with homes wrecked by the earthquake, signed off as compliant, but are now already showing signs of faulty work. You have the story above in the link. We have been talking about a shortage of tradesman for literally years. And from my “Brief History” attached see below…
At one time we had independent of the trade, an inspected gas safety system; with inspectors that were financed by the gas supply companies. It was in the company’s interest to get it right because the liability lay with those selling the gas, reinvesting their profits in the common good and safety of the public.
In the early 90’s the rampant ideology and dogma of deregulation came along, putting profit before safety. Doing away with inspectors and putting those making a profit from installing gas in control of quality and safety, whilst weighing this up against their profit margin.
Most are honest and are observing the proper procedures and standards, but apparently there are those that do not. I am told some of the worst that aren’t observing are the ones with “connections”, acting with impunity because they can and have in the past and will until they stop getting away with it.
Within the gasfitting industry this deregulation introduced a self certificate system, with certificates sold by batches identified by a unique cert number sold only to a specific licence holder.
These unique certs had a triple carbon copy of the original handwritten top copy; this top copy was then held by the PGDB. With the subsequent carbon copy then held by the gas supplier, the gasfitter and the customer.
These four independent document depositories was an effective honesty mechanism with a handwritten checkable way of filling the cert in, with a real signature done by hand. This has all gone now.
The onus was moved to the fitter, you might say “as it should”. But now we had the problem of those making a financial gain from the installation of gas, inspecting their own work, with random audits by the PGDB. But even these audits and this more robust self cert system has since proved to be untenable and has ceased.
What will our legacy be what will we leave our kids to live in, does anyone care? The lost HONESTY mechanisms above showed up the PGDB’s maladministration of the certificate system, not forgetting its flippant handing out of full certifying gas licenses to people they favoured, whilst denying more deserving people. Any of this fair?
What do you think this state of affairs above will do to the gasfitting industry, when you look at it in light of what is already showing its head in our cities. Gas is very unforgiving when it decides to let go. Deregulation was a huge mistake….look at what it is doing today; our standards aren’t what they used to be. The greedy are filling their pockets from all of our futures….I do not think this is a good way to go…..
Please tell me what you think…..
Gas is being installed and sold with ALL new gas install work classed as LOW risk in a housing shortage, with no requirement to lodge a copy of a certificate with a independent govt agency/over seer, with each copy made available by an easily manipulated “computer print off”, there is no carbon copy of handwritten information, no unique cert number, certs can be printed off generically by anyone with a printer…. not sold as they were to a licensed certifying gasfitter with a unique license number and unique certificate number……do you think this is a robust system to install a volatile gas under? Is open to abuse?
You’re not selling ice cream or a happy meal.
What message are you sending to the industry when the PGDB are allowed to protect someone that they gifted a full certifying license to with no apprenticeship sat? The industry most definitely knows of this, there are over 68,400 views on this link….
https://www.plumbers.co.nz/forum/fellow-practitioners-update/41/fellow-practitioner-issue-236-dated-12-december-2014/1810/msg11266#msg11266
In six days time the ninth anniversary will come around for this cover up…..what will your legacy be?
Yours with Integrity Paul Gee
-
The way the system is now....
You have well meaning, compliant, health and safety observing proper tradesman......charging to cover costs to adhere to the system....their prices are going up accordingly to cover this....
Then you have the leaches, the ones filling their pockets mirroring the prices of those trying to do the right thing....but cutting corners, printing off certs, not observing H&S....importing cheap materials/labour.....their profit is soaring.....undercutting by a couple of 100 bucks to get the work....I have seen it all........I worked for someone who would ask to see the quotes....didn't even work them out....just under cut by a small margin....he was as busy as....
I can't beat the quote if I can't see it......a large amount of people will always go with the cheapest....fact.
Who is going to thrive....who has more chance of succeeding....who is going to be left in business.....
This is why the system needs a massive overhaul.....I think it helping those it is meant to hold to account....
.
.
-
What amazes me is no one has denied what I have said, no one has said I am making it up.....so I can only surmise that these people are happy with this sort of thing to happen....
Apparently our own "new" minister can not help....this reply took months for me to receive....
.
-
Again....Sorry to hear it happened to my family.....
No one says I am mistaken, no one denies it happened, no one says I am making this up.....but they are all happy to ignore.....
-
And the Office for fairness for all......
-
I attached the report and the history and the Ombudsman letter....Office for Fairness for All.....as long as it is convenient and no cronies get into trouble.....f**** the innocent and the public.....
______________________________________
From: Paul & Emma Gee [mailto:gspservices@xtra.co.nz]
Sent: Monday, 30 April 2018 9:31 p.m.
To: 'info@ombudsman.parliament.nz'; 'martin@pgdb.co.nz'; 'complaints@pgdb.co.nz'; 'comms@pgdb.co.nz'; 'PGDB Competency Based Licensing'; 'ceo@pgdb.co.nz'; 'exams@pgdb.co.nz'; 'gascerts@pgdb.co.nz'; 'Hannah Neville'; 'jayson@pgdb.co.nz'; 'licensing'; 'overseas@pgdb.co.nz'; 'Registrar'; 'accounts@pgdb.co.nz'
Cc: 'jacinda.ardern@parliament.govt.nz'; 'Andrew Little'; 'Julia Minko'; 'jenny.salesa@parliament.govt.nz'; 'phil.twyford@parliament.govt.nz'; 'Wal Gordon'; 'Allan Day'; 'Colleen Upton'; 'lynnmoff'; 'Faculty of Law'; 'Winston Peters'; 'Kaitlin Ruddock'
Subject: RE: PGDB reply to my complaints 2018 03 13
Dear Ombudsman,
Please see attached a report complied by the Plumber’s Federation which shows 9 people of interest ignored by the PGDB and the sham of an investigation I was subjected to.
I want to clarify that, with this information attached; the “Office for Fairness for All” is still of the opinion that I was treated fairly and that these documents show fairness, natural justice and if any moral compass is present at all? If I wasn’t treated fairly…..why do you do nothing?
And Martin while I have your ear, please can you reply to my email below?
Yours with Integrity
Paul Gee
________________________________________
From: Paul & Emma Gee [mailto:gspservices@xtra.co.nz]
Sent: Wednesday, 28 March 2018 8:01 a.m.
To: 'Paul & Emma Gee'; 'martin@pgdb.co.nz'; 'complaints@pgdb.co.nz'; 'comms@pgdb.co.nz'; 'PGDB Competency Based Licensing'; 'ceo@pgdb.co.nz'; 'exams@pgdb.co.nz'; 'gascerts@pgdb.co.nz'; 'Hannah Neville'; 'jayson@pgdb.co.nz'; 'licensing'; 'overseas@pgdb.co.nz'; 'Registrar'; 'accounts@pgdb.co.nz'
Cc: 'jacinda.ardern@parliament.govt.nz'; 'Andrew Little'; 'Julia Minko'; 'jenny.salesa@parliament.govt.nz'; 'phil.twyford@parliament.govt.nz'; 'Wal Gordon'; 'Allan Day'; 'Colleen Upton'; 'lynnmoff'; 'Faculty of Law'; 'Winston Peters'; 'Kaitlin Ruddock'
Subject: RE: PGDB reply to my complaints 2018 03 13
Martin,
Please can you or Peter Jackson clarify whether my complaint is trivial, frivolous or vexatious? It can not be all three.
It smacks of the PGDB’s willingness to hide behind policy and rolling out yet another policy to cover this up? Just as you are with my other complaints “falling out side” of the general complaints policy. They are still very valid complaints, if you don’t have a policy to cover it, then make one.
I believe to cover up a near fatal explosion, while protecting the guilty, ignoring huge conflicts of interest, all done at the expense of the innocent, whilst telling untruths to the persons lawyer who was injured in that explosion while he lay in a drug induced coma, done to cover up the PGDB’s maladministration of the certificate system and the flippant handing out of full certifying licenses to the unqualified….totally despicable if not corrupt. That’s my policy and it should be everyone else’s policy that is copied in to this email….or you are happy with this? Are you happy with that long winded sentence, I will take your silence as a yes.
I can prove all of the above, and am happy to provide. It is not trivial, frivolous or vexatious to speak the truth to those that choose to ignore it.
It is not trivial to blow someone up, it is very serious. To want this PROPERLY looked into is not frivolous (the PGDB ignoring 9 people of interest at the hearing). It is not vexatious, I believe it is quite important, even imperative to get to the bottom of this, to expose those covering this up is not stirring up trouble for the sake of it…..its called seeking the truth with integrity and accountability.
I believe the PGDB treated this situation as trivial, by ignoring the huge amount of evidence. The PGDB is to be found acting in a frivolous manner toward a very important duty entrusted to them to protect the NZ public and displayed a nature of being vexatious when they pursued me in the local press after I went 42 out of 44 charges at their kangaroo court as an innocent man (the last charge being utter B.S.).
But it appears these three words only apply to us lowly plebs and not the hypocrites that govern us.
Yours with Integrity Paul Gee
________________________________________
From: Paul & Emma Gee [mailto:gspservices@xtra.co.nz]
Sent: Tuesday, 27 March 2018 5:03 p.m.
To: 'Paul & Emma Gee'; 'martin@pgdb.co.nz'; 'complaints@pgdb.co.nz'; 'comms@pgdb.co.nz'; 'PGDB Competency Based Licensing'; 'ceo@pgdb.co.nz'; 'exams@pgdb.co.nz'; 'gascerts@pgdb.co.nz'; 'Hannah Neville'; 'jayson@pgdb.co.nz'; 'licensing'; 'overseas@pgdb.co.nz'; 'Registrar'; 'accounts@pgdb.co.nz'
Cc: 'jacinda.ardern@parliament.govt.nz'; 'Andrew Little'; 'Julia Minko'; 'jenny.salesa@parliament.govt.nz'; 'phil.twyford@parliament.govt.nz'; 'Wal Gordon'; 'Allan Day'; 'Colleen Upton'; 'lynnmoff'; 'Faculty of Law'; 'Winston Peters'; 'Kaitlin Ruddock'
Subject: PGDB reply to my complaints 2018 03 13
Hi All,
I will let you all decide if my complaints are trivial, frivolous or vexatious as per the letters sent by the PGDB in response to the email below and received by me today….it involves a cover up of a near fatal explosion and the dire state of the gas certificate system and flippant issuing of licenses to people shown preference by the PGDB whilst others more deserving are refused.
I remake these complaints under natural justice or any policy that I need to, to allow you look at this and not cover it up. It is so wrong to cover this up, just plain wrong.
Yours with Integrity Paul Gee
________________________________________
From: Paul & Emma Gee [mailto:gspservices@xtra.co.nz]
Sent: Tuesday, 13 March 2018 1:19 p.m.
To: 'Paul & Emma Gee'; 'martin@pgdb.co.nz'; 'complaints@pgdb.co.nz'; 'comms@pgdb.co.nz'; 'PGDB Competency Based Licensing'; 'ceo@pgdb.co.nz'; 'exams@pgdb.co.nz'; 'gascerts@pgdb.co.nz'; 'Hannah Neville'; 'jayson@pgdb.co.nz'; 'licensing'; 'overseas@pgdb.co.nz'; 'Registrar'; 'accounts@pgdb.co.nz'
Cc: 'jacinda.ardern@parliament.govt.nz'; 'Andrew Little'; 'Julia Minko'; 'jenny.salesa@parliament.govt.nz'; 'phil.twyford@parliament.govt.nz'; 'Wal Gordon'; 'Allan Day'; 'Colleen Upton'; 'Chris Griggs'; 'lynnmoff'; 'Faculty of Law'
Subject: RE: OIA request for Handwriting report
Martin,
Please take my email below as a complaint on the use of one of my warnings to pin the near fatal explosion on me (the outrageous outline is found below in my email please regard ALL questions as a complaint)……
So to recap…..
1. I complain about the ethics on utilising my warning to try to pin the signature on me for the dodgy certs, that those warnings mentioned.
2. I complain about the person who caused the fire mentioned below.
3. I complain that Darnley may have been issuing his own certs.
4. I complain that the PGDB is protecting Darnley.
I would add to that complaint your inaction to this email below. I am of the opinion after reading your policy, that my complaining about your inaction, removes you Martin from dealing with that complaint and ensures it goes before the Board. Just as the PGDB needed to see the report by the Federation, it needs to deal with these complaints in light of this report.
I have attached the PGDB’s own policy on complaints and the report for your convenience and it is under that policy that I make these complaints.
I also guide you to your most recent available agreement, page 5 attached, with the minister (Nick Smith), are the comments about appeals under “Complaints and Discipline” not to be over turned done at all costs…ignoring natural justice?
The policies and agreements that the PGDB ignore at will, whilst pontificating to the public is sickening.
Was my case too late to meet these policies? Yes it was…..but common decency has always existed, along with ethics and natural justice…..do the PGDB need a rule book to show these aspects fundamental to a well meaning humanity?
Yours with Integrity
Paul Gee
________________________________________
From: Paul & Emma Gee [mailto:gspservices@xtra.co.nz]
Sent: Thursday, 15 February 2018 8:55 a.m.
To: 'martin@pgdb.co.nz'; 'complaints@pgdb.co.nz'; 'comms@pgdb.co.nz'; 'PGDB Competency Based Licensing'; 'ceo@pgdb.co.nz'; 'exams@pgdb.co.nz'; 'gascerts@pgdb.co.nz'; 'Hannah Neville'; 'jayson@pgdb.co.nz'; 'licensing'; 'overseas@pgdb.co.nz'; 'Registrar'; 'accounts@pgdb.co.nz'
Cc: 'jacinda.ardern@parliament.govt.nz'; 'Andrew Little'; 'Julia Minko'; 'jenny.salesa@parliament.govt.nz'; 'phil.twyford@parliament.govt.nz'; 'Wal Gordon'; 'Allan Day'; 'Colleen Upton'; 'Chris Griggs'; 'lynnmoff'; 'Faculty of Law'; 'Paul Warhurst'
Subject: FW: OIA request for Handwriting report
Martin,
Thank you for the recent handwriting report, attached…..please can you explain the ethics of the PGDB using one of my warning letters, attached (a letter warning about dodgy certs covering dangerous gas work) which was sent 5 years before an explosion nearly killed someone.
This letter was used by the PGDB as a reference document for a handwriting report (a very directed and focused report only on me only, done well before BOTH mine and Darnley’s hearing) ….trying to pin that explosion on me. Really? Using my warning to try to implicate me for what I was warning about? Then withholding that report, not divulging it until now, after an OIA request?
Why wasn’t any of Darnley’s handwriting/doc’s reviewed….like the cert for the pizza oven (which the PGDB lost) or the actual job card that shows Darnley’s hand for the addition of the fryers that caused the explosion.
The use of this letter is nearly as bad as relying on child molestation case notes to prove probability in a plumbing context, nearly!
All the evidence is here for those who want to look in the email below and evidence attached.
While I have your ear, I am yet to hear from you about the gas caused fire in Nelson where I asked the question in an email, quoted below, on the 20th Jan 2018.
How many fires caused by a gas leak were there in Nelson on that date? This should narrow it down for you…..if there was no investigation (similar to mine) then why not? It made the Notifiable gas accidents report from Energy Safety attached, emphasis on notifiable. The reference I sent in early December was taken from this report.
I have also just recently found out from someone I trust, that Darnley….who most if not all evidence points to for the Milton Street explosion, and is probably involved in the fire above (please can you confirm)….that the reason he was visited (and as a result gifted his full certifying gas license by Hammond with no apprentice sat after one oral exam, by none other than the same Hammond appointed to investigate the explosion)……well he was making up his own certs….on an exemption license….whilst selling gas….(Hammond also lobbied for deregulation form a gas retailers point of view). Confused? Call me on it….I’ll fly up and walk you through the huge amount of evidence.
So to recap…..
1. Please explain the ethics on utilising my warning to try to pin the signature on me for the dodgy certs.
2. Confirm who caused the fire.
3. Was Darnley issuing his own certs
4. Why are you protecting this man
I have copied in a few PGDB email addresses as I want this email tabled to the PGDB board at its next meeting. I want the perpetual Board take ownership of this debacle, not sweep it under the carpet.
You talk about trust and integrity you inherit the past and leave a legacy for the future with your present.
Injustice is corrupting if it is accepted....even if it is ignored…… it eats away at integrity, opening the doors to the dismantlers of good, just like rust corrupting the integrity of an otherwise strong steel durable structure.....its no plan for the future.
This is why we don't use this as a template for ongoing success, history tells us corruption ultimately fails and causes chaos.
Yours With Integrity
Paul Gee
________________________________________
From: Paul & Emma Gee [mailto:gspservices@xtra.co.nz]
Sent: Wednesday, 14 February 2018 2:42 p.m.
To: 'Allan Day'
Cc: 'Wal Gordon'; 'Colleen Upton'
Subject: RE: OIA request for Handwriting report
Hi Allan,
I have copied in Wal and Colleen so we can see it all in one place.
The sick minded people behind this used one of my “warning” letters so they could pin the signatures on the certificates on me….I distinctly remember that the investigator (investigator he was not) stated that it was all about the signature……ignoring all the different inks and different handwriting.
This two page letter was one that I sent to warn about my concerns over 5 years before the explosion…..mentioned in reference docs for report, i.e. a two page letter stamped 09 01 04 (stamped by the PGDB)…..the letter being dated 06 01 04, the three days difference for it to be delivered to the PGDB and is the only letter I sent around that time.
This letter submitted by the investigator as a sample of my signature to give to the handwriting expert …..if you look at the letter….my concerns were later shown to be very well founded and actually bang on.
This report then goes on to raising doubt over my involvement, even saying the signatures were different and could have been copied by a skilled person (all be it doubtful)…..The investigator ignoring Darnley involvement totally (please see break down of my findings in my email to Wal).
Not forgetting this report was withheld and I have only just seen it.
Did I get a fair go?
All the Best
Paul
________________________________________
From: Allan Day [mailto:allan-day@xtra.co.nz]
Sent: Tuesday, 16 January 2018 10:50 a.m.
To: Paul & Emma Gee
Subject: Re: OIA request for Handwriting report
Hi Paul
Thank you for including me into your email, please keep me advised as to the response.
I have been reading Wal's report/submission and I can tell you I find it upsetting at the injustice of those involved and the wheels with in wheels as they concealed and covered the truth.
Kind regards
Allan
On 15/01/2018, at 11:21 AM, Paul & Emma Gee <gspservices@xtra.co.nz> wrote:
Martin,
Please by way of an OIA request can I get a copy of the report from the forensic document examination and handwriting expert who the PGDB contracted to analyse documents for the investigation into the explosion at Milton Street.
It is the report that the PGDB were billed for 12 hours of consultation, examination and the resulting report for. The invoice from the handwriting expert was dated 20 September 2010, but as it was part of the investigation it should have been retained until the hearing which is within the 7 years limit.
I would have thought a copy would have been made available to me at the time, but it has never been passed on to me and I have never seen a copy. It is within 7 years to the hearing and I can assure you my request is neither frivolous nor am I being vexatious. I do not think the well worn excuse of it’s “too hard to find” is warranted either.
A man nearly died in a preventable explosion due to circumstances I had warned about for 6 years before that explosion. My family were terrorised and my life has been in turmoil since.
Please Martin do not continue this cover up. Please clear my name and give me my life back. I have done no wrong but my family has paid a hefty price.
Thank you
Yours with Integrity
Paul Gee
-
If you read only read two things on this fiasco make sure its these two attachments.
.
-
still cant hear anything ! no one saying this guys making this shit up or is telling pork pies ! that tells me that they will do what they want , when they want & we will fund it . no accountability required >:(
-
Exactly Ford1.....75 thousand views, and the link to this page I have sent to the PGDB, politicians, media , the PGDB definitely know its out there, they know its common knowledge....and they do not give a flying Donald duck mate...
Still haven't (because they can't) answered this question below in blue....
Please can you or Peter Jackson clarify whether my complaint is trivial, frivolous or vexatious? It can not be all three.
It sets a precedent....anyone of you can get shafted and they can get away with it.....
-
From: Paul & Emma Gee [mailto:gspservices@xtra.co.nz]
Sent: Monday, 30 April 2018 9:31 p.m.
To: 'info@ombudsman.parliament.nz'; 'martin@pgdb.co.nz'; 'complaints@pgdb.co.nz'; 'comms@pgdb.co.nz'; 'PGDB Competency Based Licensing'; 'ceo@pgdb.co.nz'; 'exams@pgdb.co.nz'; 'gascerts@pgdb.co.nz'; 'Hannah Neville'; 'jayson@pgdb.co.nz'; 'licensing'; 'overseas@pgdb.co.nz'; 'Registrar'; 'accounts@pgdb.co.nz'
Cc: 'jacinda.ardern@parliament.govt.nz'; 'Andrew Little'; 'Julia Minko'; 'jenny.salesa@parliament.govt.nz'; 'phil.twyford@parliament.govt.nz'; 'Wal Gordon'; 'Allan Day'; 'Colleen Upton'; 'lynnmoff'; 'Faculty of Law'; 'Winston Peters'; 'Kaitlin Ruddock'
Subject: RE: PGDB reply to my complaints 2018 03 13
Dear Ombudsman,
Please see attached a report complied by the Plumber’s Federation which shows 9 people of interest ignored by the PGDB and the sham of an investigation I was subjected to.
I want to clarify that, with this information attached; the “Office for Fairness for All” is still of the opinion that I was treated fairly and that these documents show fairness, natural justice and if any moral compass is present at all? If I wasn’t treated fairly…..why do you do nothing?
And Martin while I have your ear, please can you reply to my email below?
Yours with Integrity
Paul Gee
-
They don't care you know about all this.....while they pontificate about honesty, fairness, and the wellbeing of the trade.....what does that make them?
Dodgy hypocrites ? Hmmmmm......
From: Paul & Emma Gee [mailto:gspservices@xtra.co.nz]
Sent: Monday, 18 June 2018 8:53 a.m.
To: 'Paul & Emma Gee'; 'info@ombudsman.parliament.nz'; 'martin@pgdb.co.nz'; 'complaints@pgdb.co.nz'; 'comms@pgdb.co.nz'; 'PGDB Competency Based Licensing'; 'ceo@pgdb.co.nz'; 'exams@pgdb.co.nz'; 'gascerts@pgdb.co.nz'; 'Hannah Neville'; 'jayson@pgdb.co.nz'; 'licensing'; 'overseas@pgdb.co.nz'; 'Registrar'; 'accounts@pgdb.co.nz'
Cc: 'jacinda.ardern@parliament.govt.nz'; 'Andrew Little'; 'Julia Minko'; 'jenny.salesa@parliament.govt.nz'; 'phil.twyford@parliament.govt.nz'; 'Wal Gordon'; 'Allan Day'; 'Colleen Upton'; 'lynnmoff'; 'Faculty of Law'; 'Winston Peters'; 'Kaitlin Ruddock'
Subject: RE: PGDB reply to my complaints 2018 03 13
Dear Ombudsman and PGDB,
Why can you answer these questions? Please see emails below.
Please can you tell me why 9 people of interest are ignored, the guilty walk free and the innocent are persecuted. Is this a precedent that you want to set for the NZ public and the gasfitting and plumbing industry?
I will you take your silence as a yes. You should be aware that your silence is “done” in front of the industry, also the people copied in your silence is also noted by the well over 75 thousand views of your non action. Please see link below….
https://www.plumbers.co.nz/forum/fellow-practitioners-update/41/fellow-practitioner-issue-236-dated-12-december-2014/1810/msg11348;topicseen
Yours with Integrity Paul Gee
-
________________________________________
From: Paul & Emma Gee [mailto:gspservices@xtra.co.nz]
Sent: Monday, 13 August 2018 6:17 a.m.
To: 'Paul & Emma Gee'; 'info@ombudsman.parliament.nz'; 'martin@pgdb.co.nz'; 'complaints@pgdb.co.nz'; 'comms@pgdb.co.nz'; 'PGDB Competency Based Licensing'; 'ceo@pgdb.co.nz'; 'exams@pgdb.co.nz'; 'gascerts@pgdb.co.nz'; 'Hannah Neville'; 'jayson@pgdb.co.nz'; 'licensing'; 'overseas@pgdb.co.nz'; 'Registrar'; 'accounts@pgdb.co.nz'
Cc: 'jacinda.ardern@parliament.govt.nz'; 'Andrew Little'; 'Julia Minko'; 'jenny.salesa@parliament.govt.nz'; 'phil.twyford@parliament.govt.nz'; 'Wal Gordon'; 'Allan Day'; 'Colleen Upton'; 'lynnmoff'; 'Faculty of Law'; 'Winston Peters'; 'Kaitlin Ruddock'
Subject: RE: PGDB reply to my complaints 2018 03 13
I have received no replies to these emails….so I am guessing that a system of governance that stands by telling untruths when someone is nearly killed by a preventable explosion which then blames the innocent and lets the guilty go free is all ok with you? Protecting them selves before the NZ public?
You should all go take a good look at yourselves.
Yours with Integrity Paul Gee
-
I have heard that apparently now the PGDB have changed their policy to prevent excessive emails....from unreasonable people....
Here is an idea.....answer the questions.....that's reasonable....
.
-
S there is a shortage of Plumbers and Gasfitters......
Martin Sawyers, chief executive of the Plumbers, Gasfitters and Drainlayers Board, said one of the biggest issues was that not enough businesses were taking on the apprentices that were available.
"Only 30 per cent of the industry take on apprentices and that is one of the key blockages," he said.
"But the solution to the current shortage of plumbers is multifaceted."
That included encouraging school leavers to enter the profession as well as recruiting internationally, Sawyers said.
How about clearing my name......I am a craftsman Plumber and Gasfitter....I even have an electrical license.......the shortage is multifaceted apparently.....but the PGDB's ego and cover up of their mistakes is worth more to them than getting this sorted.....
.
-
From: Paul & Emma Gee [mailto:gspservices@xtra.co.nz]
Sent: Wednesday, 19 December 2018 9:16 p.m.
To: 'Paul & Emma Gee'; 'Tatsuhiko Koyama'; 'Rt. Hon Jacinda Ardern'; 'ju@parliament.govt.nz'; 'raymond.huo@parliament.govt.nz'; 'northshore@parliament.govt.nz'; 'ginny.andersen@parliament.govt.nz'; 'chrisbishopoffice@parliament.govt.nz'; 'mark.mitchell@national.org.nz'; 'Greg.OConnor@parliament.govt.nz'; 'Nick.SmithMP@parliament.govt.nz'; 'duncan.webb@parliament.govt.nz'; 'trevor.mallard@parliament.govt.nz'; 'Hon Andrew Little'; 'A Little Office (MIN)'; 'Stuart Nash'; 'stuart.nash@parliament.govt.nz'; 'David Clark'; 'David Clark'; 'david.parker@parliament.govt.nz'; 'Mike.bush@police.govt.nz'; 'BINKS, Elizabeth'; 'Serious Fraud Office'; 'Chief Justice'; 'inquiries@lawsociety.org.nz'; 'ContactUs'; 'commission@ssc.govt.nz'; 'enquiry@oag.govt.nz'; 'infoline@hrc.co.nz'; 'Courtofappeal@justice.govt.nz'; 'supremecourt@justice.govt.nz'; 'martin@pgdb.co.nz'; 'complaints@pgdb.co.nz'; 'Wal Gordon'; 'lynnmoff'; 'Colleen Upton'; 'Allan Day'; 'Emma Gee'; 'theprojectnz@mediaworks.co.nz'
Cc: 'K.Davis@ministers.govt.nz'; 'office.davis@parliament.govt.nz'; 'grant.robertson@parliament.govt.nz'; 'nanaia.mahuta@parliament.govt.nz'; 'hauraki.waikato@parliament.govt.nz'; 'megan.woods@parliament.govt.nz'; 'megan.woodsmp@parliament.govt.nz'; 'chris.hipkins@parliament.govt.nz'; 'kris.faafoi@parliament.govt.nz'; 'mana.electorate@parliament.govt.nz'; 'selwynoffice@parliament.govt.nz'; 'nathan.guy@national.org.nz'; 'michael.woodhouse@national.org.nz'; 'anne.tolley@parliament.govt.nz'; 'hamish.walker@national.org.nz'; 'metro@sfchronicle.com'; 'ctc-tribletter@chicagotribune.com'; 'newsdesk@smh.com.au'; 'mcgrory@globe.com'; 'tips@nytimes.com'; 'LawDean@auckland.ac.nz'; 'jessica.palmer@otago.ac.nz'; 'neil.boister@canterbury.ac.nz'; 'ursula.cheer@canterbury.ac.nz'; 'mark.hickford@vuw.ac.nz'; 'front.desk@aic.gov.au'; 'ti@transparency.org'; 'Eva Lu'; 'wjp@worldjusticeproject.org'; 'Wayne Rumbles'; 'morningreport@radionz.co.nz'; 'Nicky Hager'; 'contact@newsroom.co.nz'; 'Radio NZ'; 'theprojectnz@mediaworks.co.nz'; 'news@newshub.co.nz'; 'TVNZ'; 'stuff.co.nz'; 'newstips@alliedpress.co.nz'; 'editorial@investigatemagazine.com'; 'Andrew Straw'; 'mail@michaelkirby.com.au'; 'enquiries@pco.gov.uk'; 'bizpost@scmp.com'; 'Web_inquiry@foreign.senate.gov'; 'correspondence@ustr.eop.gov'; 'aucklandacs@state.gov'; 'cecilia-malmstrom-contact@ec.europa.eu'; 'delegation-new-zealand@eeas.europa.eu'; 'foi-dpa.imd@fco.gov.uk'; 'fcocorrespondence@fco.gov.uk'; 'ud.registrator@gov.se'; 'redaksjonen@dss.dep.no'; 'nzchinaembassy@gmail.com'; 'singov_webmaster@mci.gov.sg'; 'Canadian High Commission Wellington'; 'consular@wl.mofa.go.jp'; 'info@wellington.mfa.gov.il'; 'Grace Haden'; 'Gordon McNab'; 'Paul King'; 'Eric Marchant'; 'Lynette Stevens'; 'Donald Howie'; 'Mona Cliffe'; 'Gavin Hillary'; 'Blossom lightdancers'; 'RangiMarie aka Lady Justice'; 'Inness York'; 'rkg100@protonmail.com'
Subject: Cover up of a near fatal explosion
Martin, CEO of the Plumbers Board,
I would like to formally and publically complain about you and the way my case has been handled. I formally ask for natural justice to be served and observed.
All I ask is to clear my name….I have done nothing wrong and formally request both documents attached be tabled at your next PGDB meeting, I would also formally request that I be made privy to what comment is passed at that meeting.
We are now living in an avoidable housing shortage where (and please bear in mind the attached documents) we have thousands of except licensed gasfitters….I ask you all to inquire what this means from Martin, I am lead to believe it means exempt from training, exempt from an apprenticeship being served or exempt from any repercussions. This is not forgetting the swath of people working unlicensed and under the radar, but it appears a blind eye can be turned when it suits, this sort of planning for our countries future will most definitely come to bit you firmly in the arse. Can you trust these people with the safety of NZ public….I have very good reason to believe you most definitely can not.
Imagine the leaky homes fiasco….but with a mixture of flammable gas and carbon monoxide poisoning with a dash of legionnaires disease. We have had several near misses and a few deaths…..wake up….the laws of chemistry and physics dictate an incident will occur regardless of who you know and the blatant cronyism that abounds.
A man nearly died in an explosion that I had spent 6 years trying to prevent….only to be set up as the scape goat for that explosion….please see attached.
I ask all you esteemed people copied in…..should this happen in a true democracy where the public wellbeing should come before the pigs in the trough and their egos?
Please reply to all Martin. Your answers, and that of those involved, to date are an embarrassment to natural justice, logic, common sense, civility and fair play.
I am still yet to be explained what relevance child sexual abuse case notes have in a plumbing disciplinary…these were suffered by my wife when she opened them (unmarked of their sickening and vile content) just before we lost our home and she was forced to live in a caravan for a whole winter, with my two sons who were 3 and 5 at the time (while I was forced to work away, and still do to this day). My Wife was forced to collect drinking water and empty a chemical toilet at the Takaka local i-site, all done in front of the people we once served with our plumbing business. These same people, did then and still do to this day, think I am responsible for nearly killing someone in a gas explosion.
Jacinda, Prime Minister…..your a working Mum…..how do you think my wife felt doing this….she is a working Mum too….the Labour party is meant to be pro worker….where is that ethos today?
Yours Sincerely Paul Gee.
-
From: Rt. Hon Jacinda Ardern [mailto:Jacinda.Ardern@parliament.govt.nz]
Sent: Wednesday, 19 December 2018 9:17 p.m.
To: Paul & Emma Gee
Subject: Automatic reply: Cover up of a near fatal explosion
Kia ora,
Thanks very much for taking the time to get in touch with Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern.
We appreciate your email. Because of the large number of emails we receive each day, you may not receive a response immediately.
-
Because of the large number of emails we receive each day, you may not receive a response immediately.
I hope there are not a lot like mine!
Have a great Christmas and New Year.....I am working, away....just want my name to be cleared.....is that too much......JUST WANT MY LIFE BACK AND MY WIFE TO RECEIVE AN APOLOGY FOR BEING TERRORISED BY COWARDS.
-
From: Paul & Emma Gee [mailto:gspservices@xtra.co.nz]
Sent: Thursday, 31 January 2019 7:28 a.m.
To: 'Rt. Hon Jacinda Ardern'
Cc: 'Wal Gordon'; 'Registrar'; 'complaints@pgdb.co.nz'; 'comms@pgdb.co.nz'
Subject: Paul Gee
Dear Prime Minister,
Please can you acknowledge receipt of these documents attached?
I just want my life back; I am forced to work away from my family and only ask to clear my name.
The home that we were forced to live in was un-sellable due to the state of disrepair (I have worked very hard to rectify this), I have been forced to work away since the kangaroo court I was subjected to. I have now managed to get work nearer to home but am away for the working week only returning home for the weekends, I have missed so much of my son’s childhoods that it makes me feel guilty I could not be there for them more.
My wife was terrorised by spineless bullies. I will address this, if you will not.
All I ask is for one simple answer……do you think we deserved to be treated like this? 9 people of interest ignored, while an innocent man is persecuted and my wife sent child sexual abuse case notes in a plumbing context, just before she lost her home….really? You asked Obama how to deal with guilt….just don’t do anything that feels wrong, it is that simple.
I have copied in Wal Gordon, my advocate and the PGDB. Wal is one is the most selfless stalwarts of the industry and has been proven right more then wrong (I am still trying to think of a time he has been wrong)….his warnings have gone unheeded …. If people had listened and not let ego and personal agenda get in the way…..NZ would be in a much stronger position with regards to the trades.
You need someone like Wal on the Board, I understand there is a position coming up…..if Wal hasn’t applied already, you should ask him to apply.
Paul Gee
From: Rt. Hon Jacinda Ardern [mailto:Jacinda.Ardern@parliament.govt.nz]
Sent: Thursday, 31 January 2019 7:29 a.m.
To: Paul & Emma Gee
Subject: Automatic reply: Paul Gee
Kia ora,
Thanks very much for taking the time to get in touch with Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern.
We appreciate your email. Because of the large number of emails we receive each day, you may not receive a response immediately.
While you are waiting for a reply, here's a list of links that may help you find what you’re looking for:
-
You can be reasonably sure that the Prime Minister has these documents and does nothing......how safe do you feel while running your business? You'll be left alone while you are in need......but what about after when the work dries up and the cronies use this tool of corruption to take out the opposition.....make as much hay as you can under this sun.....so you can fund a legal battle.....but when the playing field is uphill and the ref only applies the rule book to you, and if they loose they take their ball home and tell untruths about you....all the money in the world will not save you.....
They will empty your bank accounts and then ignore you......I know this, this is not an opinion.
I was the Nelson Master Plumber President......don't think connections will protect you......if it suits the cowards to go you, they will......spineless cowards hiding in the shadows.
-
________________________________________
From: Paul & Emma Gee [mailto:gspservices@xtra.co.nz]
Sent: Monday, 11 February 2019 7:07 p.m.
To: 'J Ardern (MIN)'
Cc: 'jenny.salesa@parliament.govt.nz'; 'Wal Gordon'
Subject: RE: Paul Gee
Hi Dinah,
Thank you for taking the time to respond, I have contacted Jenny Salesa many, many times before and nothing has been done.
I need to clear my name; I am at the end of my tether. I still work away from home and out of my chosen trade….for what?......for corrupt individuals who think more of their cronies and their reputations than the safety of the NZ public, the public’s safety who they have been entrusted with. It is so very wrong.
You must ask yourselves……Are you happy with this sort of cover up, the dodgy dealings and corrupt victimisation and awful treatment of an innocent person and his family…. all done at a risk to the safety of NZ people in their homes? Please tell me what relevance child sexual abuse case notes have in a plumbing context…….my wife opened these, just before we lost our home……is this ok by you?
There is one thing you can easily do and that is put Wal Gordon on the PGDB, I think he has put in an application for the available position on the Board, a Board that could do with a large dose of integrity, Wal is definitely your man for this.
Paul Gee
________________________________________
From: Arna Thornton [mailto:Arna.Thornton@parliament.govt.nz] On Behalf Of J Ardern (MIN)
Sent: Monday, 11 February 2019 3:58 p.m.
To: gspservices@xtra.co.nz
Subject: RE: Paul Gee
Dear Paul Gee
I am writing on behalf of the Prime Minister, Rt Hon Jacinda Ardern, to acknowledge your email of 31 January 2019 concerning your request for assistance. Please be assured your comments have been noted.
As the issue you have raised falls within the portfolio responsibilities of the Minister for Building and Construction, Hon Jenny Salesa, your email has been forwarded to the Minister's office for consideration.
Thank you for writing to Jacinda.
Dinah Okeby
Office of the Prime Minister
From: Sophie Slater
Sent: Thursday, 31 January 2019 11:19 AM
To: Stephen Tat <Stephen.Tat@parliament.govt.nz>; Dinah Okeby <dinah.okeby@parliament.govt.nz>
Subject: RE: Paul Gee
From: Paul & Emma Gee [mailto:gspservices@xtra.co.nz]
Sent: Thursday, 31 January 2019 7:28 AM
To: Rt. Hon Jacinda Ardern <Jacinda.Ardern@parliament.govt.nz>
Cc: wal.gordon <wal.gordon@xtra.co.nz>; 'Registrar' <Registrar@pgdb.co.nz>; complaints@pgdb.co.nz; comms@pgdb.co.nz
Subject: Paul Gee
Dear Prime Minister,
Please can you acknowledge receipt of these documents attached?
I just want my life back; I am forced to work away from my family and only ask to clear my name.
The home that we were forced to live in was un-sellable due to the state of disrepair (I have worked very hard to rectify this), I have been forced to work away since the kangaroo court I was subjected to. I have now managed to get work nearer to home but am away for the working week only returning home for the weekends, I have missed so much of my son’s childhoods that it makes me feel guilty I could not be there for them more.
My wife was terrorised by spineless bullies. I will address this, if you will not.
All I ask is for one simple answer……do you think we deserved to be treated like this? 9 people of interest ignored, while an innocent man is persecuted and my wife sent child sexual abuse case notes in a plumbing context, just before she lost her home….really? You asked Obama how to deal with guilt….just don’t do anything that feels wrong, it is that simple.
I have copied in Wal Gordon, my advocate and the PGDB. Wal is one is the most selfless stalwarts of the industry and has been proven right more then wrong (I am still trying to think of a time he has been wrong)….his warnings have gone unheeded …. If people had listened and not let ego and personal agenda get in the way…..NZ would be in a much stronger position with regards to the trades.
You need someone like Wal on the Board, I understand there is a position coming up…..if Wal hasn’t applied already, you should ask him to apply.
Paul Gee
________________________________________
-
So who does our minister Jenny Salesa side with? It is her portfolio......
"Who do you side with, who do you all side with?……corrupt self serving cowards or a well meaning man who put others safety first and tried to warn about all this for 6 years before being shafted and set up for what he was trying to prevent."
SIX YEARS I WARNED ABOUT DODGY CERTS COVERING ALTERED DANGEROUS GAS WORK.....
THEN WE HAD AN EXPLOSION......
SO THE PGDB APPOINT TO INVESTIGATE THAT EXPLOSION......THE SAME PERSON WHO GIFTED MY OLD BOSS ( WHO MOST IF NOT ALL THE EVIDENCE POINTS TO )......HIS FULL CERTIFYING GAS FITTING LICENSE WITH NO APPRENTICESHIP SAT AFTER ONE ORAL EXAM.....AS (AND THIS IS UNBELIEVABLE )......THE IMPARTIAL INVESTIGATOR.....HAHAHAHAH WHAT A JOKE.
ALL DONE IN THE FACE OF ALL THESE FACTS, PROVIDED AND PRESENTED TO THE PGDB AT A "IMPARTIALITY" HEARING , HELD JUST BEFORE THE KANGAROO COURT........WHERE THE INVESTIGATOR'S MATE CLOSED DOWN THE KANGAROO COURT JUST BEFORE i WENT 100% INNOCENT......TOSSER.
BASICALLY ARE YOU HAPPY WITH CORRUPTION OR ARE YOU GLAD THERE IS CORRUPTION.....THERE IS NO " FENCE SITTING "......
________________________________________
From: Paul & Emma Gee [mailto:gspservices@xtra.co.nz]
Sent: Saturday, 16 February 2019 11:01 a.m.
To: 'jenny.salesa@parliament.govt.nz'
Cc: 'Rt. Hon Jacinda Ardern'; 'chris.hipkins@parliament.govt.nz'; 'Wal Gordon'
Subject: Action
Hi Jenny,
Please can you let me know what action you are going to take with the corrupt way my family were terrorised? Please see what happened and a report of the kangaroo court attached.
As you know the Prime Minister has passed this to you, please see attached.
Please know that your action/inaction is done in front of the industry, I have posted a lot of information on a Plumbers forum, it can be found on this link-
https://www.plumbers.co.nz/forum/fellow-practitioners-update/41/fellow-practitioner-issue-236-dated-12-december-2014/1810/msg11348;topicseen
It has near 84 thousands “reads”.
I see the ITO is being overhauled….. good on the Labour Party for doing so, it is a start….the shocking state of affairs the trades are in needs addressing, but if the head is rotten it is futile…. as it will soon revert back to where we are now if the pigs aren’t removed from the trough. Apparently even recently going on international junkets to promote trade training in Mandarin….they can’t get it right in plain English…it is embarrassing.
The PGDB have been sacked before, you have this power.
The problem is when they were sacked the people chosen to replace them, came from the same mindset. I equate it to a flock of geese, flying it the same direction, just the lead few changed…..the main body of the flock still fly in the same direction with the same agenda. When the front few were dismissed…..their cronies stepped in and the mess continued on the predetermined path of greed and power. Nothing was fixed…..the results are what we are left with today.
We need people like Wal Gordon on the PGDB. I will let his record speak for itself. Have a look and point out to me where he was wrong. I can not find one instance.
Who do you side with, who do you all side with?……corrupt self serving cowards or a well meaning man who put others safety first and tried to warn about all this for 6 years before being shafted and set up for what he was trying to prevent.
I look forward to your reply.
Yours with Integrity
Paul Gee
From: Rt. Hon Jacinda Ardern [mailto:Jacinda.Ardern@parliament.govt.nz]
Sent: Saturday, 16 February 2019 11:02 a.m.
To: Paul & Emma Gee
Subject: Automatic reply: Action
Kia ora,
Thanks very much for taking the time to get in touch with Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern.
We appreciate your email. Because of the large number of emails we receive each day, you may not receive a response immediately.
While you are waiting for a reply, here's a list of links that may help you find what you’re looking for:
Beehive website
The Prime Minister’s Facebook page
The Prime Minister’s Twitter page
Full list of Ministers
We hope one of the above links helps answer your question! In any case, we'll get back to you as soon as possible.
Thanks again.
Authorised by Jacinda Ardern MP, Parliament Buildings, Wellington
-
After my family was terrorised for 2 years of persecution, lies and untrue letters sent to my customers.....after totally dismissing 42 charges out of 44 at a biased kangaroo court.....this is how my last charge was dealt with........this was days before Bickers (a twat) went in my local paper and quoted me as saying "I am just a mere plumber".....but couldn't show me where I said it......
The Final Minutes
14. 152 The final three minutes of the hearing held against Mr. Gee were probably the most
telling that appear to have been ignored. Mr. Hammond the Investigator under
Cross Examination by Mr. Gordon regarding Malvern Avenue. Here is the copy from
the transcript:
Q. That's fine. Now, the second thing I have just to clarify and you're talking about Part 1
and Part 2 of the Act. Now Part 1 is what must be done, what you must comply with?
Page 131 of 137
A. Part 1 is the mandatory requirement.
Q. Mandatory requirement, yes, and Part 2 is a way of compliance?
A. That's correct.
Q. Now, the reason I was asking about that, because on page 35 of the edition I have here,
1.5.7, it meanings about flue terminals and in the second paragraph of that section it
reads: "Flue terminals shall be located to minimise entry of combustion products into
any building and to minimise the effects of adverse draft on the performance of the gas
appliances". So in reading that, if there's no gas entering into a building, then it
complies with Part 1?
A. Yes, the aim of that is to make sure that gas does not enter into the building.
Q. So that's the aim of it, so if there is no gas, say in this case we've got two situations
where people are saying there's no gas entering, then according to that paragraph then
it complies with Part 1 of the Act?
A. No, I don't rely on consumers whether the gas was entering or not, it is the gas fitter's
job to locate it in such a way that gas does not enter the building.
Q. But that's what it's saying here though isn't it, it's saying that if the flues aren't entering
the building then it complies with Part 1?
A. Yes, but -
Q. And if the customers are saying fumes aren't entering the building then it's compliant
with Part 1?
A. But in order to ensure that under all conditions products of combustion do not enter into
the premises, then one way of complying is to ensure that the clearances are in
accordance with Part 2. If you are putting in an appliance with clearances other than
those in Part 2, then you need to demonstrate how the - how you have ensured that
under all conditions the products of combustion can't enter the property.
Q. That doesn't say "in all conditions" there. Does it say in here "all conditions"?
A. No it doesn't say all conditions, but that's surely a general inference from the
requirements of the standard to meet all conditions.
Q. Well an inference is fine, but as per it says here the - that's located to minimise entry of
combustion products and to minimise the effects of adverse draft et cetera. So those - if
there's no fumes entering those two locations that we've been talking about, then
they're actually compliant with the mandatory part of the NZS 5261?
A. I don't have any knowledge of whether products of combustion are in fact entering or
not. I have not carried out any tests to demonstrate. I am unaware of any tests that
have been carried out to demonstrate that.
MR PARKER:
Well I think we have reached the point where we are having submissions, so I think we can
adjourn now.
Page 132 of 137
MR BICKERS
Q. Mr. Hammond, I'm sorry I'm just thinking about what Mr. Gordon had put, under what
circumstances does 1.5.7 take precedence over 1.6.2? And 1.6.2 which is the
manufacturer's instructions, which in turn is table 16, so what would be necessary to say
that you've complied with 1.5.7 and you can override 1.6.2?
A. If the manufacturer had carried out some tests and designed a particular appliance in a
particular fashion that he felt that it could be put closer to some other part of the
building or whatever, then presumably he would provide that information to the
gasfitters so they could see that it was appropriate to do so other than was specified in
the means of complying.
MS INESON
Q. Supplementary on that, so does that mean on page 101, is that the point of number 6?
A. Sorry?
Q. In page 101 is that the point of note 6 at the bottom of the page?
A. Yes, that note is there specifically for.
Q. To describe what you've just described?
A. Yeah.
(Witness excused)
14. 153 As can be seen the Investigator didn’t have any knowledge of whether products of
combustion were in fact entering the building or not. He had not carried out any
tests to demonstrate they were. He was unaware of any tests that had been carried
out to demonstrate that. His job was to prove the offence and part of that offence
was non compliance but yet he just admitted he didn’t know if the installation was
complaint or not.
14. 154 It is quite disturbing that the hearing was abruptly cut short at this stage by the
Presiding Member Mr. Parker.
14. 155 Note 6 that Ms Ineson referred to stated:
(6) Some gas appliances may be suitable for closer installation, refer to
manufacturer’s instructions.
14. 156 British Standards state 300mm based on the manufactures instructions but they
were not referred to in the hearing. Needless to say the installation was safe and
had been demonstrated by Mr. Gee to be safe. The Investigator did not prove that
it was unsafe. Mr. Gee was found guilty of installing the unit closer that 1500mm
based on the manufactures instructions which were based on the NZS 5261:2003.
Page 133 of 137
14. 157 It must be remembered that the Legal advisor stated the Burdon of proof is on the
investigator and Mr. Gee doesn’t need to prove anything.
-
So after 2 years of persecution, after terrorising my wife with child sexual abuse case notes, sending untrue letters telling all sites where charges were laid I was issuing illegal certs in the North Island ( the most damaging sent to my local high school)....apparently I was issuing these dodgy certs in places I have never been to.....these untrue letters were rescinded after 18 months because they could have been "better written", I also had 50% of my charges altered to better fit just two weeks out of the hearing....
BUT I STILL..... disproved 42 out of 44 charges.......just for the dodgy bastards to close down the hearing before I went 100% innocent (see below for the closing minutes)...
The PGDB, NOT HAPPY WITH ME EXPLAINING AWAY THE CHARGES....WELL THE PGDB after all this then went in my local paper and slated me for not knowing what I was doing and said I lacked respect for my trade because I had said I was a "mere plumber".....but they can't show me where I said I was a mere plumber.....
NO ONE to this day has been held accountable for the explosion, ignoring a massive amount of evidence.......the 44 charges they tried to pin on me......ignored 9 people of interest......basically if they couldn't get me for them then they didn't want to get anyone.......
They later told an elderly couple to shut their window when using their califont.....after they actually complained about fumes entering their home.....their califont was installed under a carport and lacked any cross air circulation.....mine had a total empty wall with no containment.....and the people who lived there said there was no problem with fumes.
The PGDB ACCEPTED an incomplete cert for gas work at the site of the explosion one year after I left my old bosses firm......they told the lawyer for the guy laying in a burns unit caused by the explosion......that they had never seen it........but there is a copy on their electronic register.....with an entry date....what was this cert missing......a record of a test for leaks....that later blew up....
According to the PGDB I lack respect for the trade?.......no no no PGDB it is you that lack respect for anything decent.....aswell as an MP who stands by and does nothing.....honorable lol.
But it is my family who must suffer???? I warned this would happen for 6 years before the explosion.....and that is why they set me up. I am about ready to kick to be honest.
.
-
From: Paul & Emma Gee [mailto:gspservices@xtra.co.nz]
Sent: Sunday, 3 March 2019 12:42 p.m.
To: 'Paul & Emma Gee'; 'jenny.salesa@parliament.govt.nz'
Cc: 'Rt. Hon Jacinda Ardern'; 'chris.hipkins@parliament.govt.nz'; 'Wal Gordon'
Subject: RE: CORRUPTION
Dear All,
Please can you tell me when I can expect some sort of reply?
I take your silence to mean you are happy and content with the terrorising of my family by the PGDB. Please can you clarify?
I understand that Jacinda will be in my area in the near future and am happy to meet up if time is available to her.
I do not believe corruption has a use by date, it doesn’t dissipate over time…..if anything it gets worse and spreads like a cancer, as people become embroiled in it and so tarnished by it and so by all intents and purposes actually helping to cover it up by not exposing it, then by default becoming corrupted by the situation. No one can openly say that this should stand as it is blatantly corrupt…..so it is silenced and suffocated, this is morally wrong and you all know it.
It begs the question that if the amount of corruption I have witnessed is accepted as normal, (this is not an opinion, but fact). Where a victim nearly died in a preventable explosion, being told untruths by the PGDB as he lies is in a burns unit in a drug induced coma and the person who tried to warn about the situation that led to this explosion for 6 years BEFORE it happened is then framed for it…..well if this is accepted and allowed to be brushed under the carpet…..what goes on where the stakes are much higher? It saddens me in the direction we are headed as a so called civilisation.
It is the age old ruse of “civilisation”…. In reality lacking any civility, where self-centred greed and power rule for the selfish few, at a detriment and risk to the many. You have the power to change this, but it appears are happy for this decline. I thought you were the Labour party, for the workers by the workers against the selfish few….. but sadly seem more preoccupied with being PC. It seems the workingperson has lost its voice.
Yours With Truth and Integrity Paul Gee.
________________________________________
-
It is received, but apparently ignored......some serious allegations.....it ain't slander if its true......
From: Rt. Hon Jacinda Ardern [mailto:Jacinda.Ardern@parliament.govt.nz]
Sent: Sunday, 3 March 2019 12:43 p.m.
To: Paul & Emma Gee
Subject: Automatic reply: CORRUPTION
Kia ora,
Thanks very much for taking the time to get in touch with Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern.
We appreciate your email. Because of the large number of emails we receive each day, you may not receive a response immediately.
While you are waiting for a reply, here's a list of links that may help you find what you’re looking for:
Beehive website
The Prime Minister’s Facebook page
The Prime Minister’s Twitter page
Full list of Ministers
We hope one of the above links helps answer your question! In any case, we'll get back to you as soon as possible.
Thanks again.
Authorised by Jacinda Ardern MP, Parliament Buildings, Wellington
-
From: Paul & Emma Gee [mailto:gspservices@xtra.co.nz]
Sent: Wednesday, 3 April 2019 8:35 a.m.
To: 'Paul & Emma Gee'; jenny.salesa@parliament.govt.nz
Cc: 'Rt. Hon Jacinda Ardern'; chris.hipkins@parliament.govt.nz; 'Wal Gordon'
Subject: RE: CORRUPTION
Hi Jenny,
Please see below, please can you tell me when I might receive a reply.
Ignoring corruption doesn’t fix corruption.
I look forward to hearing from you at your nearest convenience.
Yours with Integrity
Paul Gee
________________________________________
From: Paul & Emma Gee [mailto:gspservices@xtra.co.nz]
Sent: Sunday, 3 March 2019 12:42 p.m.
To: 'Paul & Emma Gee'; 'jenny.salesa@parliament.govt.nz'
Cc: 'Rt. Hon Jacinda Ardern'; 'chris.hipkins@parliament.govt.nz'; 'Wal Gordon'
Subject: RE: CORRUPTION
Dear All,
Please can you tell me when I can expect some sort of reply?
I take your silence to mean you are happy and content with the terrorising of my family by the PGDB. Please can you clarify?
I understand that Jacinda will be in my area in the near future and am happy to meet up if time is available to her.
I do not believe corruption has a use by date, it doesn’t dissipate over time…..if anything it gets worse and spreads like a cancer, as people become embroiled in it and so tarnished by it and so by all intents and purposes actually helping to cover it up by not exposing it, then by default becoming corrupted by the situation. No one can openly say that this should stand as it is blatantly corrupt…..so it is silenced and suffocated, this is morally wrong and you all know it.
It begs the question that if the amount of corruption I have witnessed is accepted as normal, (this is not an opinion, but fact). Where a victim nearly died in a preventable explosion, being told untruths by the PGDB as he lies is in a burns unit in a drug induced coma and the person who tried to warn about the situation that led to this explosion for 6 years BEFORE it happened is then framed for it…..well if this is accepted and allowed to be brushed under the carpet…..what goes on where the stakes are much higher? It saddens me in the direction we are headed as a so called civilisation.
It is the age old ruse of “civilisation”…. In reality lacking any civility, where self-centred greed and power rule for the selfish few, at a detriment and risk to the many. You have the power to change this, but it appears are happy for this decline. I thought you were the Labour party, for the workers by the workers against the selfish few….. but sadly seem more preoccupied with being PC. It seems the workingperson has lost its voice.
Yours With Truth and Integrity Paul Gee.
-
9th April 2009 a man nearly died in an explosion....ten years ago.....still covered up.....and my life is still effected by it......I am not going anywhere, still fighting it.....
-
From: Paul & Emma Gee [mailto:gspservices@xtra.co.nz]
Sent: Monday, 8 April 2019 8:25 p.m.
To: 'Paul & Emma Gee'; jenny.salesa@parliament.govt.nz
Cc: 'Rt. Hon Jacinda Ardern'; chris.hipkins@parliament.govt.nz; 'Wal Gordon'
Subject: RE: CORRUPTION
Hi Jenny,
On the 9th April 2009 a man nearly died in an explosion, caused by circumstances I had tried to warn about for 6 years previous to that explosion…..I was then framed and targeted for responsibility for that explosion with my family terrorised along the way.
My life is still very much affected; on average I have had a new job once a year moving around and working away from my family for 8 long years…..it took 2 years of persecution before my business folded.
And you people just ignore me and hope I go away. I keep hearing about depression and people struggling….what happens when your problems are real, inflicted by the people in power? Why to only extremists get a say or even taken notice of? All I tried to do was help people and keep the public safe….but I was “warning” the very people who would look really bad when it hit the fan….so I be came the scape goat….think about that…..I do, a lot.
All I am asking is to clear my name for something I did not do, while being set up by corrupt dirty actions that put the average Kiwi at risk. You won’t even answer my questions…..and you use the moniker “Right Honourable”…..you should look it up in the dictionary.
Please can you at least answer me, or am I so worthless that I deserve no reply?
Yours with Integrity Paul Gee
They know and could not care less........
From: Rt. Hon Jacinda Ardern [mailto:Jacinda.Ardern@parliament.govt.nz]
Sent: Monday, 8 April 2019 8:25 p.m.
To: Paul & Emma Gee
Subject: Automatic reply: CORRUPTION
Kia ora,
Thanks very much for taking the time to get in touch with Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern.
-
Hey Badger I don't think Comrade Taxinda will be very responsive to your plight, or gives a flying ferk quite frankly.
Do you remember that a complaint was made to the Board against her and Gayfords were made by some clever practitioner who noticed an article where they admitted to doing illegal plumbing on some property that they owned in a life style magazine.
Subsequent response from the Board was that they had apologized and would not do it again so no further action would be taken......
Im over all the Bullshit to the point where i'm trying to laugh at the utter insanity of it all or risk loosing the remaining sanity molecule I have left.
Also I wish to congratulate you on your tenacity as I have been watching you for years try to hold these Muppetts to there code of conduct that states " That they are to act with Honesty and integrity and in the best interests of the constituents that voted for them"
Bawwhaa ha ha ah ah.... I am sure that when you get released from this mortal coil you will continue to haunt the buggers in some way shape or form. ???
-
Cheers Enn,
I know they don't give a flying Donald duck mate, none do...I can't think of one.
I just want to clear my name and get an apology for my wife.... I know I will never get it, but I can at least show what they are for as long as I can.
I KNOW that things are totally covered up and the twisted corrupts rule mate, it is truley amazing the people I have met and the depths that those that rule sink to to keep their hands on the power....you would not believe me mate if I told you half.
Thanks for your kind words mate, means heaps to me.
.
-
Two months ago.....no reply....not even a denial......turning a blind eye to corruption....
-
It is better to suffer an injustice than to inflict an injustice...Socrates about 400bc...Google it...
You see...damaged people cause others damage, their souls sold...for a paid up trip to America to promote teaching plumbing in Mandarin...when you can't do it properly in the plain tongue of your own land....lol...twats...
Guilt eats like rot on a dead tree...Gee'sarse 2019
Its all about the soul...I know how I would rather side with...my soul will go with me.
.
-
To be totally clear...when I talk about guilt...I do not mean (and would never think) that those that cause harm, ever feel any guilt (you'd need a soul for that)...
I mean real guilt, actual guilt, undeniable guilt...that is what eats at the soul... like rot on a dead tree (i.e. soul)...it never happens straight away... not today... but 20 years from now when your sat on the shitter, busting a shit out and your mind wanders...and you think....oh! I am undeniably a total self serving utter cunt...that risks others for self gain...(this is something ironically better down that toilet)
I will leave you self entitled tits and your surrounding sycophants to your future... you are a total joke that time will show you for what you are...total bellends...I fart in your general direction...
.
-
I hope the poor guy in the CHCH explosion gets a fair go....I did not...
Gas was smelt at the chipshop for a few days before, the hose had (according to the police forensic) had its sheath cut away with something sharp....this hose was sold after I had left the company that sold the hose. The hose had been replaced before as it had split before.
This extra hose had split because the supplying pipe work was lowered, this re-positioning of the pipe work was shown in the photos withheld by the investigator...shown by the wall plug holes left where the original clips where drilled in to the wall.
The PGDB had the opportunity to take my case and make a point of enforcing the importance of reacting to the smell of gas, not altering the original install, you know if you smell gas isolate the supply....
But it is more important to find someone to blame....
.
-
From: pgee3366@gmail.com <pgee3366@gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, 28 July 2019 10:19 AM
To: 'j.salesa@ministers.govt.nz' <j.salesa@ministers.govt.nz>
Cc: 'jacinda.ardern@parliament.govt.nz' <jacinda.ardern@parliament.govt.nz>; 'a.little@ministers.govt.nz' <a.little@ministers.govt.nz>; 'phil.twyford@parliament.govt.nz' <phil.twyford@parliament.govt.nz>; 'wal.gordon@xtra.co.nz' <wal.gordon@xtra.co.nz>; 'damien.oconnor@parliament.govt.nz' <damien.oconnor@parliament.govt.nz>
Subject: The Gas Industry is broken.
Jenny,
You have ignored my situation to date.
I hope the poor guy in the CHCH explosion gets a fair go....I did not...
Gas was smelt at the chipshop for a few days before, the hose had (according to the police forensic) had its sheath cut away with something sharp....this hose was sold after I had left the company that sold the hose. The hose had been replaced before as it had split before.
This extra hose had split because the supplying pipe work was lowered, this re-positioning of the pipe work was shown in the photos withheld by the investigator...shown by the wall plug holes left where the original clips where drilled in to the wall.
The PGDB had the opportunity to take my case and make a point of enforcing the importance of reacting to the smell of gas, not altering the original install, you know if you smell gas isolate the supply....
But it is more important to find someone to blame....
Also we have the abysmal attitude that people have to gas summed up in the recent TV programme “The Block”, but apparently the PGDB are more concerned with the size of the gas bottle which would affect performance (probably raised by the manufacturer, as this would be their main concern and they are very well represented in the gas industry), this is correct….but the fact the cylinder is tied off a beam seems lost on them?
I am happy to discuss the attached with Damian O’Conner in my local office. I did spend an evening with Damian at a local dinner. I marked his score card at the Young Growers night recently. I did contemplate talking to him about it them, but didn’t want to hijack his night.
The gas industry is broken…are you going to fix it, or keep letting the people who have broke the system carry 0n with what they have done, it is a nepotistic and dirty business. The person who was the investigator for my treatment, lobbied for deregulation….this was the beginning of the end. I have recently applied for a job at the ESS as a technical adviser, I am very experienced in what this job would entail…mark my words …. I won’t even get an interview.
Ostrich-ing with your head buried in the sand will not fix this Jenny…..I fear these incidents will happen more often, with greater damage.
Your with Integrity Paul Gee.
-
From: Rt. Hon Jacinda Ardern <Jacinda.Ardern@parliament.govt.nz>
Sent: Sunday, 28 July 2019 10:20 AM
To: pgee3366@gmail.com
Subject: Automatic reply: The Gas Industry is broken.
Kia ora,
Thanks very much for taking the time to get in touch with Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern.
We appreciate your email. Because of the large number of emails we receive each day, you may not receive a response immediately.
While you are waiting for a reply, here's a list of links that may help you find what you’re looking for:
-
Think about this ....we've had a major explosion...and the Prime Minister is ignoring my case, a corrupt cover up of an explosion...
My case should have been an opportunity to raise awareness and future proof the industry, the importance of acting on gas leaks, reacting to the smell of gas, proper maintenance, not to cut into gas hoses...no the powers that be would rather someone to blame(as long as it isn't them)....no they would rather a witch hunt for a scapegoat, to make an innocent man guilty.
-
You've seen the evidence...here is a reply from "our" minister...she mentions the Ombudsman...been there it took the "quick response" team over two years to tell me that they don't deal with situations like mine...contrary to their mandate...something they could have told me after a week after reading story...
The complaints procedure denied most of my complaints, think I made about 8...guess what the PGDB are not liable...but they are meant to act in good faith...do you think they have???
Fairness for all....bit of a joke really.
-
In times like this recent COVID scare...I just wish I had more confidence, and could place more trust, in those that lead.
-
Shame I was put out of business by corrupts...only live around the corner...
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/122089186/unacceptable-christchurch-technician-starts-5hour-drive-to-respond-to-picton-gas-leak
-
Gas is one of the cleanest and efficient forms of energy, perhaps its because they don't know how to run it properly...and you can say goodbye to your van as well. Its another fart tax, hope they don't take offence to my exhaust gases, my breathing and farting.
The world has gone through climate change since the year dot...the ice cores state this...bloody Neanderthal SUV's....
https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/124143363/climate-change-report-gasfitters-fear-for-their-businesses-while-consumers-rethink-installations
.
-
Hi Jacinda,
How about the mental health issues inflicted by corruption? Do you have any links or phone numbers for being persecuted by corrupts?
Yours with Integrity Paul Gee
On Wed, 10 Feb 2021 at 08:16, Rt Hon Jacinda Ardern <Jacinda.Ardern@parliament.govt.nz> wrote:
Kia ora
Thank you for taking the time to get in touch with Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern.
If you are writing about an issue relating to COVID-19, mental health, Immigration, housing or benefit assistance, here's a list of links that you might find helpful:
For queries around Managed Isolation availability and/or exemptions: miq.govt.nz
If you are overseas and need assistance please contact your nearest New Zealand Embassy or Consulate. Contact details are listed in each destination page on the SafeTravel website: https://www.safetravel.govt.nz/news/covid-19-advice-new-zealanders-overseas . For urgent consular assistance after-hours please contact +64 99 20 20 20 (monitored 24 hours a day).
For immigration and visa advice: contact the call centre which is open 6:00am Monday to midnight on Saturday (NZT). https://www.immigration.govt.nz/contact
For urgent housing or benefit enquiries:
∙ Call 0800 559 009 (for under 65)
∙ Call 0800 552 002 (for over 65)
If you need treatment or support for your health or wellbeing, the following options are available.
Healthline – You can call Healthline for health advice on freephone 0800 611 116 at any time, 24 hours a day, seven days a week. Healthline staff can advise you on the best thing to do in your situation, including which services are near you and open.
1737 – If you need to talk to someone about how you are feeling, you can call or text 1737 for free at any time to talk to a trained counsellor.
Mental health crisis teams – If you are concerned that someone is going to hurt themselves or someone else, you can call your local mental health crisis team. A full list of numbers is available here: www.health.govt.nz/your-health/services-and-support/health-care-services/mental-health-services/crisis-assessment-teams
For Police assistance In an emergency call 111.
For everything else use 105.
You can also make a report online at 105.police.govt.nz
We hope that one of the above links helps answer your question, if not we will try to get back to you as soon as possible.
Thank you again
Office of the Prime Minister
-
From: Paul Gee <pgee3366@gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, 10 February 2021 8:18 AM
To: Rt Hon Jacinda Ardern <Jacinda.Ardern@parliament.govt.nz>
Subject: Re: Automatic reply: Endemic, systemic, and widespread corruption in New Zealand requires urgent action
Hi Jacinda,
How about the mental health issues inflicted by corruption? Do you have any links or phone numbers for being persecuted by corrupts?
Yours with Integrity Paul Gee
On Wed, 10 Feb 2021 at 08:16, Rt Hon Jacinda Ardern <Jacinda.Ardern@parliament.govt.nz> wrote:
Kia ora
Thank you for taking the time to get in touch with Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern.
-
Well its been 12 years on the 9th April and still no one has been held accountable for a near fatal gas explosion, with a plethora of evidence ignored. Just remember that every time they pontificate about safety.
.
-
The boards prosecution processes are very poor. I have my own experiences there.
-
My case was nothing short of a corrupt witch-hunt, with huge clashes (not just conflicts) of interest...for something I had spent 6 years warning about.
This then begs the question...in what context does a present day perpetual board stand with historic corruption???
Perpetual in my mind means that the present day board inherits the past actions (good, bad and indifferent) of that PERPETUAL board???
.
-
OPEN LETTER...Where is the accountability?
Paul Gee <pgee3366@gmail.com>
Attachments
10:10 (0 minutes ago)
to registrar, Wal
Dear Registrar and PGDB,
Please see attached 2 documents to support this email.
Personal statement I wrote in 2017 ( if there anything out of date please let me know so I can update my files)
Report written by industry stalwart Wal Gordon.
Wal's report shows 9 people of interest that were ignored and to the best of my knowledge never pursued. Done while I was made the scapegoat with my wife and family traumatised.
My Wife is still deeply concerned by the relevance of child sexual abuse case notes sent to our home, just before we were forced to sell that home. My Wife then had to live in a caravan with my young sons for a whole winter, while I was forced to work away to stay financially afloat...for many years. The site of the caravan had no potable water or functioning toilet. She had to empty the cassette toilet and collect drinking water at the local i-site. All done in front of the public that we previously served with a successful plumbing and gas business.
By way of an OIA please can you tell me if anyone has been held accountable for the near fatal explosion that happened at the chip-shop in Nelson, the explosion that I had spent 6 years previously warning it could happen if circumstances didn't change, i.e. addressing dodgy incomplete gas certs covering dangerous work.
Also if no one has been held accountable, please explain why not. I have a wealth of ignored evidence if required. The ongoing effect on my life is an everyday struggle. I did nothing wrong and only acted with the best of intentions.
It is my intention to ask these questions every time there is a change of guard at the PGDB.
I ask you, as part of a perpetual board, are you happy to inherit this state of affairs? Are you happy to join your predecessors? I believe there will come a day when we will finally have someone with the CORRECT moral compass and integrity to address this, I hope you are this group of people. I will persist until I find these people.
Please table both these documents at the next PGDB meeting.
Please keep all correspondence in writing, preferably by email.
FYI, I will be posting this on the Plumber's Forum, where there have been more than 150 thousand "reads" concerning this thread, this email and your answer will be open to the industry.
Yours with integrity
Paul Gee
-
The reply to my letter see below....
29 March 2022
Paul Gee
By email: pgee3366@gmail.com
TÄ“nÄ koe Mr Gee
Email and Official Information Act request
Thank you for your letter to the Board dated 8 February 2022. Your letter and the documents accompanying it were considered by the Board at its meeting on 22 March 2022.
We acknowledge that this matter has caused you distress and we understand from your correspondence that this matter has been difficult for you.
The matters you raise in your email have been the subject of extensive correspondence between the Board and yourself for a number of years now. The Board acknowledges that you remain dissatisfied with the responses you have had however there is nothing new that the Board can tell you about these matters.
With regard to your request under the Official Information Act 1982 (OIA), following consideration the Board has concluded that there is no information covered by your request which has not already been provided to you in response to previous OIA requests you have made. This includes information provided in response to requests about the charges laid in respect of the explosion of the fish and chip shop on Milton Street, requests for correspondence with the Department of Labour relating to the explosion and subsequent investigation, a number of requests about the person who made the complaint to the Board about the explosion, a number of requests about the certification and audit processes used by the Board for gasfitting work around the time of
the explosion, and a number of requests for information concerning John Darnley in relation to the explosion.
As there has been no new information gathered by the Board in relation to the Milton Street explosion in 2009 since these previous responses, there is no further information the Board can provide to you about this matter.
The Board regrets that this matter continues to cause you and your wife distress. If you are dissatisfied with the Board’s response in relation to your OIA request, you can raise it with the Office of the Ombudsman. Information on how to do so is available on the Ombudsman’s website at www.ombudsman.parliament.nz
Thank you for your letter.
NÄku noa, nÄ
Aleyna Hall
Chief Executive/Registrar
Plumbers, Gasfitters, and Drainlayers Board
-
And here's my reply.....I can't copy and paste as its a bit long.
-
Page one
4 April 2022
Reply to PGDB letter sent 29th March 2022 - Zero Accountability for a near fatal explosion
Thank you for your reply dated 29th March 2022. I also thank the Board for considering my previous email and attached documents.
With the 9th April anniversary of the explosion approaching, every year is a struggle to be reminded what my family has been subjected to since 2009, 13 long years of stress. I am glad the PGDB have finally acknowledged the distress that it has inflicted on my family and that this has been difficult for me. Difficult doesn’t cover a tenth of it, but it is at least a start in the right direction. Thank you for this.
I can only assume that still no one has been held accountable for nearly killing someone in the 2009 explosion. I find it quite revealing that the letter of response 29th March avoided committing to writing, in plain English, the actual words “no one has been held responsible”, but to refer me to previous correspondence where this was stated.
I must also assume that the PGDB condones that an innocent man, who spent 6 years warning about dodgy certificates covering dangerous work, was singled out to be rail-roaded and his life turned upside down, suffering a very directed witch-hunt and character assassination.
I have either worked away from home within my trade, or worked out of my trade nearer to home since. I have applied for many jobs, that due to my experience, qualifications and skill level I get to the final checks, only to be turned down when they find out about my “past”… a past that was manufactured by the PGDB and sustained right up to this day, it is a “past” full of corrupt actions, conflicts of interest, untruths and bias, none of which is mine to own. I live with this daily, as does my family. I would get on with my life, if I could just get my life back and clear my name. What purpose does it serve the PGDB to hold on to this, is it to keep the 100% conviction rate???
You speak of no new information regarding the explosion, the old information speaks volumes if you would but look. And I believe there is plentiful “new” evidence, Wal Gordon’s report for example.
This “old” evidence proved that the gas supply, mid-way and termination of the install was not how I left it and so I could never have been responsible for the explosion in any way. Which would leave all the other results of the so called “investigation” into me irrelevant and moot points.
This “old” evidence was provided to me by the PGDB from the very outset, evidence available to Tony Hammond, the investigator. Evidence that showed I could not have been responsible for the near fatal explosion
It should have ended right here and my previously aired concerns considered and acted upon.
This “old” evidence includes (and is not all that is available to the PGDB) .
• Gas Supply - the cylinder station. Comparing the initial Allgas receipts for materials and fittings to the police forensic photos of the explosion, which showed that the cylinder station was up-graded and expanded in gas volume after the initial install, probably to accommodate the added pizza oven. Done well after I left Allgas.
• Mid-way - the install of this said pizza oven. This is the same appliance that the PGDB denied ever receiving a gas cert for. But the same cert number and details appeared on the PGBD’S electronic register with exact same details and dates. All copies available (both electrical and carbon) showed that no soundness test was recorded (on an install that later exploded). Installed after I left Allgas.
• Termination - the two bayonet fittings. Shown to have been lowered down the wall to floor level, from their original position some 600mm from the floor, as evidenced by the fixing screw holes in the wall. This was shown in the photos that the “Impartial” investigator withheld (he withheld well over 100 photos). He was far from impartial.
• Termination - the sale of a third gas hose to connect the bayonets to the fryers. There were only two fryers ever installed at the chip-shop. This sale of a third hose, sold a month after I left Allgas. This is the hose that split on the 9th April again… causing the explosion. Splitting due to pinching against the floor, because the bayonet was lowered.
-
Page two
I resigned from Allgas due to concerns over attitudes to safety that built up during the last months of my 9-month employment at Allgas. I was given a written warning for arguing with the son in law of the owner. He was trying to force me to fit a califont to a spa. It had “do not fit to a spa” written on the box of the califont. Apparently, it was ok though because he’d had one of the main bosses of the califont manufactures around for a BBQ, this pretty much summed up Allgas’ attitude to gasfitting. It was all about who you knew, not what you know.
Finally, later that month, this came to a head when I asked for specifications/schematics for the installation of a central heating (C/H) system that was heated by a califont. I am ex British Gas and this idea contravened all my previous training and experience.
The said califont had the same ring main supplying both the hot water outlets AND C/H radiators off the same ring main. The C/H radiators being controlled by TRV’s (thermostatic radiator valves), these TRV’s open when the room calls for it by temperature drop. So, water held stagnant in the rads for a whole warm Nelson summer, will be released into the ring main when it gets cooler outside. With the hot water out lets connected to the same ring main, the most concerning being the shower rose, atomising any bacteria to be inhaled. Legionnaires would be a very real concern. As far as I am aware it’s still there.
His reply to my request for specifications was the final straw…”just use poker face and pretend you know what your doing”. I told him in no uncertain terms what he could do with his job. He then bought 4 books of gas certs in my name with his credit card. As soon as I went self-employed, I came across dodgy certs covering dangerous work and informed the PGDB straight away. I was told there were over 1000 certs in my name and it would cost $25 to see each one, I didn’t have 25k to hand. There were actually less than 100 certs at the time, some 89 from memory.
Later after the explosion, I asked the investigator about this purchase of 4 books in my name (purchased without my permission or knowledge), he didn’t have a problem with it at all and showed me copies of all the certs in my name, photocopied on pink paper with black ink. This method of photocopying I later discovered concealed the fact that added information done to my gas certs, after my signature, was done in different colour pens… blues and reds, I think even a green from memory.
The PGDB’s investigator was in possession of all this evidence from the very start, but then went on to investigate many years of all my work (as stated in a PGDB letter written by a PGDB lawyer after my hearing), but publicly and officially the investigator claiming only a small % of my work was investigated at the hearing. Giving a slanted representation of my work. When measured against the one charge that stuck, it shows the level of my work.
My involvement in this sham of an investigation should have stopped right at the beginning, I had come forward voluntarily as I had all my fears come to fruition with the explosion. But I suppose as the investigator had gifted Darnley his full craftsman/certifying license after one “oral” exam, he probably thought it may reflect badly on the investigator personally. Also, the fact that this failure of the cert system was evident, a system the investigator had lobbied for in his “deregulation” papers. Impartial is not a word that I would use to describe him.
We had had an impartiality hearing previously on the 22 Feb before my hearing 3 May, where we aired our concerns about the obvious conflicts of interest, we were ignored.
All sites of charges (except the chip shop) were prejudiced with letters claiming the “untruth” that I was issuing illegal gas certs in the North Island; I had never worked in the North Island up until that date. This letter was allowed to stand for many months and put the final nail in my business’ coffin, especially the letter sent to the Motueka high school.
These un-true letters were finally rescinded (but the damage was done). Rescinded, because they could have been “worded better” … i.e. to contain the truth and not untruths I suppose. I am not allowed to call them lies. Ironically, I have been forced to work in the North Island since to support my family, missing many years with my family and my lads growing up. This hurts the most above all else.
Then just a very short time before the hearing, after nearly a two-year investigation, 50% of the charges were amended, i.e. totally changed. We (Wal and myself) still saw 42 out of the 44 charges off. Helped very much by Wal’s irrepressible search for truth.
I later found out that John Darnley’s charge for the chip shop explosion, the charge that prevented me sharing the same hearing and any opportunity of cross examination, just disappeared before his hearing, gone … poof in a cloud of dust….please can you explain how this happens?
Also see the handwriting expert’s opinion on Darnley’s hand writing being added to my job sheet for the fryers at the explosion. In all probability done when they were installed, with the bayonets lowered to accommodate their installation.
-
Page 3
At the hearing after a three-day ordeal of bias, more untruths and finding out very relevant photos were withheld by the very un-impartial investigator. The hearing was brought to an end just was we were cross examining the investigator about the “dangers” of the proximity of water heaters to openable windows (this the basis for the only charge that “stuck” out of 44 for me). The hearing was shut down by his long-time colleague from the gas industry and chair of my hearing Stephen Parker. Please see the final pages of the transcript of my hearing, it is blatant.
My customer stated he had never had a problem with his water heater and had never smelt any fumes entering his window. I drew on a whiteboard at the hearing how I knew the fumes would act. Since the hearing I have provided photos of an experiment I conducted that proves what I said/drew to be true and this is also supported by a British Regulation, not forgetting the documents I provided at the hearing.
But another customer who complained to the PGDB about fumes entering their home was told by the PGDB to shut the window when he used it. Which is it or does it just depend on who you are ???
This is the only charge that stands, for this window proximity, but I was scolded in the newspapers for it by Alan Bickers, a member of the Board for my hearing.
Ironically the same Alan Bickers became a Board member for Trustpower. I bumped into him in one of the only local jobs I could find, to be near my family, at the local power station. Co-incidentally I was made redundant months later after bumping into him at the power station.
If you truly regret that this matter continues to causes distress, then please do something about it and clear my name.
The terrorising of my wife with the use of child sexual abuse case notes to prove probabilities in a plumbing context is disgusting and reprehensible, I want an official apology for this egregious behaviour. I came home to her sobbing hysterically; it still haunts my thoughts. I have asked many times but have not received any apology to date.
We were forced to sell our home not long after the hearing. My wife lived in a caravan with my young sons for a whole winter. While I worked in “NZ Housing” homes. I had to sign a waiver not to tell anyone about the conditions I saw people living in, child poverty and abuse. While missing my own kids and family. I was working while watching things I will never forget and sleeping in the workshop. I have too many tales like this while working away from my family.
I have provided a lot of extra evidence since the hearing and you now have Wal Gordon’s report. I believe this is new evidence and points to 9 people of interest ignored by the PGDB. It appears that if the PGDB couldn’t pin it on me, then they are not interested in finding those that are guilty. This is not due to a lack of evidence, but due to a lack of will.
There is so much more to this than the contents of this letter, I have tried to be brief and pick a “worst of ” list. There is nothing that I have said which I can’t prove with a lot of evidence, I am considering a civil case. Time has proved me right and has not diminished my innocence whatsoever.
Is the PGDB interested in fixing this injustice before I incur the cost of a barrister? I only ask you to do what it right, fair and just.
There is acknowledgement and regret stated in writing in your letter. But these are just words without action. Innocent people always protest the most and will always go further than the guilty to see justice served.
I will re send this letter regularly to the Board. I intend to do this on the anniversary of the explosion, April 9th every year. Hence the content, to ensure new readers have the info to hand.
I hope one day we have people leading the industry with a true moral compass. I will wait until then but I am hoping it is you and those who preside today. I want to think the best of the new members of the PGDB and would hope to give them an opportunity to not be akin to their predecessors and fix this injustice. To not act is to condone in my opinion. I ask the well meaning to look at those who try to cover this up with the distain that they deserve and with this letter in mind.
I openly ask the PGDB…
Are you, as a perpetual professional industry Board happy to allow this injustice to stand??? With no one to be held accountable for nearly killing someone with faulty work, and allowing 9 people of interest to not even be asked about their involvement or any other wrong doing, all done at the expense of an innocent man’s character, business and family?
Please, no double talk or legalese….just a simple YES or NO. You either do or you don’t condone this dire situation to stand.
-
Page 4
I would respectively and formally request that this question above to be put to the vote by the Board Members and I ask for the results.
We still live in a democracy. I would give the decent people a chance to distance themselves from those that do allow for this corruption to stand.
I look forward to your reply.
Please table this letter at the next PGDB meeting. Please can the Chair read it aloud to all members. Spoken words are more meaningful than an attachment to an email that is easier to ignore. I formally ask with all due respect that it is read in full to the whole Board before voting. I am happy to do this myself if the Board allows.
Yours with Integrity
Paul Gee
-
The main point from the letter below....
This “old” evidence includes (and is not all that is available to the PGDB) .
• Gas Supply - the cylinder station. Comparing the initial Allgas receipts for materials and fittings to the police forensic photos of the explosion, which showed that the cylinder station was up-graded and expanded in gas volume after the initial install, probably to accommodate the added pizza oven. Done well after I left Allgas.
• Mid-way - the install of this said pizza oven. This is the same appliance that the PGDB denied ever receiving a gas cert for. But the same cert number and details appeared on the PGBD’S electronic register with exact same details and dates. All copies available (both electrical and carbon) showed that no soundness test was recorded (on an install that later exploded). Installed after I left Allgas.
• Termination - the two bayonet fittings. Shown to have been lowered down the wall to floor level, from their original position some 600mm from the floor, as evidenced by the fixing screw holes in the wall. This was shown in the photos that the “Impartial” investigator withheld (he withheld well over 100 photos). He was far from impartial.
• Termination - the sale of a third gas hose to connect the bayonets to the fryers. There were only two fryers ever installed at the chip-shop. This sale of a third hose, sold a month after I left Allgas. This is the hose that split on the 9th April again… causing the explosion. Splitting due to pinching against the floor, because the bayonet was lowered.
I openly ask the PGDB…
Are you, as a perpetual professional industry Board happy to allow this injustice to stand??? With no one to be held accountable for nearly killing someone with faulty work, and allowing 9 people of interest to not even be asked about their involvement or any other wrong doing, all done at the expense of an innocent man’s character, business and family?
Please, no double talk or legalese….just a simple YES or NO. You either do or you don’t condone this dire situation to stand.
I would respectively and formally request that this question above to be put to the vote by the Board Members and I ask for the results.
We still live in a democracy. I would give the decent people a chance to distance themselves from those that do allow for this corruption to stand.
-
Anniversary of the explosion looming on the 9th April, see attached my annual "Anniversary" letter to the PDGB.
They've had nearly a year to become aware and informed.
Some new content...I got hold of the Dept of Labour's original report ...that started this shit show ... the owner said twice it wasn't me who hooked up offending fryers...even named who it was...but the corrupts ignored this and went after me anyway. Cowards.
-
.
Sent this morning 21 March 23.
I believe that the reaction from the PGDB to this utter shambles reflects on what they think of every single one of you and the industry as a whole. If I was part of a PERPETUAL Industry Board and was expected to protect this kind of corruption I would be appalled, but then I have a moral compass and the balls to say so.
Paul Gee <pgee3366@gmail.com>
08:15 (0 minutes ago)
to Amanda, registrar, Chris, building, Emma, Wal, TVNZ, stuff.co.nz
Hi Amanda,
As I said this would be done with the disinfectant of daylight, out in the open and in public.
Please see below a link to the "Plumber's Forum", my Open Letter has been downloaded 80 times (at the time of writing this email), quite a small number nationally. But as it's a focused site, then I believe that the number is magnified by the lens of that trade specific site.
https://www.plumbers.nz/fellow-practitioners-update/41/fellow-practitioner-issue-236-dated-12-december-2014/1810/msg13271#msg13271
Please can you table this email along with my open letter to the PGDB. I do not want to ambush anyone (I have had it done to my family way too many times). I just want to emphasise that their reply will be posted in public before the industry.
How the PGDB reply will reflect how much they value their own integrity and how much they value what the industry thinks of them. Corruption doesn't have a "use by date".
How did Darnley face a charge for the explosion which magically disappeared by the time of his hearing...the separate hearing to my hearing, the one that had to be separate because we both faced the same charge at the start of the witch-hunt...which prevented my team from questioning him and his team. A very convenient co-incidence ??? All done in good faith with reasonable care as per the Act???
Yours with Integrity Paul Gee.
-
.
The reply that took 6 weeks to write and as promised my reply....
An Open reply to PGDB letter 18 April 2023, as promised to be posted along with your short letter publicly. Please share with the PGD Board Members.
Hi Amanda,
How it took over 6 weeks for such a short reply is beyond me, but it is what I have come to expect after 14 years. Literally only just one sentence of consequence, other than the usual niceties of a letter, below in blue.
“The Board acknowledges the concerns you have raised but has nothing further to say about these matters”.
The PGDB acknowledges my “concerns” but refuses to act or even speak about them. Please let me take the opportunity to clarify, they are not to be flippantly dismissed as mere “concerns” but facts backed by hard evidence. This premeditated and purposeful ignoring of these facts, in my mind, constitutes the definition of a cover up… i.e. being in full knowledge of damning and incriminating facts/evidence then turning a blind eye and even refusing to discuss, not a good look.
This state of affairs says to me that you care very little for transparency, honesty, integrity, the industry or natural justice. And apparently, on the face of it, caring even less who knows this, I say this because you are well aware your reply will be posted publicly.
NEED I REMIND YOU…NO ONE HAS BEEN HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR A NEAR FATAL EXPLOSION, WHILE IGNORING BLATANT EVIDENCE OF WHO IS RESPONSIBLE AS WELL AS 9 PEOPLE OF INTEREST. This is egregious in itself.
Of Note: At no point do you dispute nor deny my accusations.
Again, as I will every year around the anniversary of the explosion, I make the huge amount of evidence available to the PGDB and with enough notice offer to come to Wellington to present this evidence to anyone that cares.
I take your determined silence as a wilful cover up, condoning the egregious behaviour of past members of your PERPETUAL Industry Board.
Yours with Integrity
Paul Gee
-
FYI... Its is ridiculous that I can write this without any denial from the PGDB.
Official Information Request
Paul Gee <pgee3366@gmail.com>
Attachments
17:29 (7 minutes ago)
to Amanda, registrar, cc:, building, Emma, Wal, TVNZ, stuff.co.nz
Hi Amanda,
By means of an OIA request please can you provide the information/document that led to the directed and focused persecution of myself for the LPG explosion at the Milton Street Chip shop that exploded on the 9th April 2009.
I have provided sections of the initial DOL report (I would send the whole report but the file is too large and the PGDB should have a copy in any event). As you have read, this report states the owner of the chip shop, the only actual witness, said it wasn't me and named another person/company.
This would make anything that came from this report and the subsequent DOL "complaint " invalid and moot. There was no reason within that report to focus on me. And as no one to this day has been found accountable for the explosion, shows that the report was correct and I am an innocent man and the PGDB have a reluctance to find the guilty, this is disgusting.
Of Note: John Darnley faced the same charge as per attached letter, but this charge laid for the explosion disappeared before his hearing, by means of an OIA request please can you tell me why this happened, on what basis was this charge dismissed.
Coincidentally the fact we faced the same charge prevented any cross examination by my team at my hearing.
As I had complained about him for many years before the explosion and he had previous form for nearly burning down a house you would have thought that enough to target him. Not the person who warned about dodgy gas certs, covering dangerous work. I could not have been more accurate.
As you are aware 4 book of certs were bought in my name without my knowledge around the time of my resignation from Allgas, lots of different colour ink is present when adding information to certs after signature, missing information for a test for leaks on one of the certs for the chip shop, this same cert accepted by the PGDB..you can't get much more dodgy.. and let's not forget a near fatal explosion, which is about as dangerous as you can get. I could not have been more accurate in my warnings.
I do not accept the PGDB metaphorically taking their ball home and not wanting to play any more with their refusal to discuss their egregious behaviour. You have had a massive effect on my life, I resently found out that my youngest son is teased about this in school, the kids say, "your Dad blew up the chip shop", this comes just under the level of the child sexual abuse notes opened by my wife. By means of another OIA request please can you tell me the reason the PGDB thinks these disgusting documents (there were several cases sent in one package and opened by my wife) are relevant in a plumbing context. To clarify I am looking for the legal precedent that justifies this abuse.
I can provide my IRD list of jobs I have had since the kangaroo court I was subjected to (where I proved myself in a biased and conflicted proceeding over 95% innocent). This list shows I have had 10 jobs in 12 years, if I include my self employed either side of that it is 12, a job a year. Many would have snapped by now.
I look forward to your reply within 20 working days, if it makes things easier for you my other OIA requests can be provided on the same day.
Yours With Integrity
Paul Gee.
-
Dear Prime Minister and all MP’S,
Please bear in mind that the PGDB do not deny any of my accusations below, I find that very concerning. As should those copied in. The PGDB are happy to not address this corruption for nearly 15 years. They have literally refused to talk about a near fatal explosion that no one to this day has been held to account, ignoring blatant firm evidence. Please see my open letter to the PGDB and their reply refusing to talk about it, attached.
And worse…apparently not concerned what the industry thinks of this either, please see a link below with over 160 thousand views on a Plumbing/Gasfitting industry specific forum, link below.
https://www.plumbers.nz/fellow-practitioners-update/41/fellow-practitioner-issue-236-dated-12-december-2014/1810/msg13203#msg13203
Please see DOL report 5072550, re Milton Street Chip shop explosion in Nelson, a near fatal explosion in April 2009.
In the DOL report 5072550. It mentions it was me who warned for 6 years prior to the explosion. Warning that there were dodgy certs covering dangerous work. I could not have been more accurate. But I was targeted, terrorised and was subjected to a pre-determined witch-hunt. The problem with corruption is it is like rot in a building, if it isn’t removed it spreads and infects the sound structure of that building.
My wife was terrorised with child sexual abuse case notes to prove a point on probabilities. Sent just before we were forced to sell our home. Emma spent a whole winter living in a caravan with my sons, 3 and 5 years old. Emptying the cassette toilet waste and filling up on drinking water at the local i-site in front of the people we used to serve with our business, done while I was forced to work away. I have worked away since within my trade and taken work out of my trade to work from home. One of these jobs was at the local power station, I was made redundant from. Co-incidentally a short time after bumping into Mr Bickers, who was on my panel at the hearing and later the chair of the PGDB, the same person who slated me in the local newspaper after going 95% innocent of 44 charges. Saying I had brought the industry into disrepute and that I had said I was a “mere plumber”, but no one can show where I said this.
The last charge is totally unfounded. Interestingly, in another home the PGDB told the occupants to close their window to avoid fumes. This other appliance was far more closed in than the one they accused me of and the owner of this home said he had never smelt fumes. There is an alternative standard that proves I did no wrong.
My business was ruined by official PGDB letters full of untruths (apparently I am not to refer to them as lies) The one attached to the local high school did the most damage. These prejudicing untrue letters were sent to every site of charges (except the site of the explosion).
Stating that I was issuing illegal certs in in the North Island, in places I have never even visited, let alone worked.
The actual person who was doing this in these areas in my letters was apparently selling blank certs, he kept his license until his son was gifted his certifying license in the same manner as my old boss. I have an official reply from the PGDB that this case is still before the Board and as far as I know no action has been taken. This situation generated the story below in blue.
"Hundreds of homes and businesses have been fitted with potentially illegal and dangerous gas connections which authorities say could put people at risk of fire or poisoning.
Police and Government authorities are investigating the alleged scam in which more than 570 blank safety certificates were signed by a registered gasfitter, then sold to up to eight unqualified tradesmen who carried out work in Auckland and Northland.
The alleged fraud went on for nearly three years until a homeowner noticed her gas certificate looked bogus and laid a complaint with the Plumbers, Gasfitters and Drainlayers Board in July.
The Government licensing body launched an inquiry and discovered the scale of the alleged offending.
An urgent audit of more than 370 commercial premises and private homes found more than 90 per cent failed to meet compliance tests, with 16 found to be dangerous or unsafe.
More than 200 certificates are still missing and the board has issued an alert to the public to help trace the unlicensed work.
Energy Safety, part of the Ministry of Economic Development, and the Department of Labour are also investigating the potentially explosive gas fittings. A complaint has also been laid with police.
John Debernardo, the gasfitter board spokesman, said the 570 certificates were a small fraction of the 100,000 issued during the three-year period.
While most were technical breaches and the number of potentially lethal gas leaks found were small, he urged anyone with information to come forward.
"Gas is a fuel that has the potential to create danger or pose a health and safety risk. This is a serious matter," said Mr Debernardo.
The internal investigation would be completed in a few weeks and a disciplinary hearing was likely for the gasfitter at the centre of the audit.
Criminal charges were also possible for the man signing the blank certificates and those who paid money for them.
"As a gas industry spokesman, I'm ashamed of what these guys have done," said Mr Debernardo.
To compound matters, gas connections done by an unlicensed worker are not covered by insurance.
Mr Debernardo said the audit had cost taxpayers $250,000 so far, a figure likely to rise to $500,000.
He would also report back to the board with a review of the gas-fitting certificate system to see if changes needed to be made.
Mark Wogan, of Energy Safety, said the audit found six homes and 10 businesses in Auckland were dangerous or unsafe. The immediate focus was on public safety".
Mr Debernardo sat in on my interviews, as a trainee investigator, with Hammond the PGDB investigator. Mr Debarnado has since sadly passed away.
The 44 trumped up charges, 50% of which were amended (altered to fit better) two weeks out from my hearing, amended after a two year "investigation".
All the sites of my charges (other than the site of the near fatal explosion) were investigated by Casey Inspection Service LTD. The same firm who put a claim in for auditing me at 8 point road, after I told him it was a cert I had handed back when I left Allgas years before. Handed back as it was dodgy (look at the dates, the explosion was in April 2009). Same firm who had their services cancelled because they were needlessly failing audits to claim the $150 re-audit fee. Look at the mess on this cert accepted by the PGDB below and the receipt for services rendered (which they were not) in 2005. I had been complaining about these certs since 2003.
During my inquisition, evidence was most definitely withheld and misrepresented...evidence that confirmed my claims and previous warnings, warnings made 6 years before someone nearly got killed in an explosion.
Huge conflicts of interest were ignored, it took several people to do this, not just the so called "impartial" investigator. Impartial he was not. Isn’t that the definition of a conspiracy?
This investigator. Hammond, who granted Darnley (my old boss) his full certifying gasfitting license after just one oral exam (basically a chat). The investigator being the same who lobbied for gas industry deregulation (a huge mistake) and pushed for (if not implemented) the self-certifying system, the same guy who turned up to my interview with pink paper (the colour of the top copy, which was then carbon copied in triplicate) with plain black ink photo copies, thus hiding all the different colour inks (red, green, black and blue) of altered/added information. Does he sound Impartial to you? In interview he said, I should make sure my house is in order before dobbing people in and that the system was too big to fail. But the system has failed.
My last charge was upheld because I was prevented from producing a British Standard at my High Court appeal, this standard totally exonerated me… but basically because of the investigators' (and PGDB’S) ignorance of this standard... I am guilty? guilty of what?
Evidence was ignored that implicates other people, at least 9 people of interest. Work offensive enough to ruin my business/reputation and terrorising my wife, but not offensive enough to pursue the actual guilty. The PGDB have Wal's 72 page report, please see attached, but the PGDB do nothing. As per usual Wal has done all the hard work for the PGDB...but it's beyond just laziness.
One of these people of interest (Darnley my old boss) still goes protected from a charge he actually faced for the explosion, but this charge magically disappeared before his hearing AND THE PGDB DO NOT DENY THIS!!!
Of Note, Darnley handed in his resignation to the New Zealand Institute of Gas Engineers in May 2009, the explosion was in April 2009, weeks earlier, if not days. NZIGE is an arm of IPENZ…who Bickers and Hammond are members.
It is so ridiculous that someone admitted that he had cut away parts of the hose just before the explosion, as per the DOL report, but nothing happened to him.
Also in the DOL report a complete lack of maintenance. I ask you in all honesty … if the brakes on your car fail after six years of zero maintenance, do you blame the garage where you bought it? But I was subjected to two years of unjustified persecution.
Someone altered my work, lowering the pipe to the floor, resulting in the hose rupturing once BEFORE, the second hose (sold after I left Allgas, by Allgas) is the one that caused the explosion, photos of my original fixing screw holes were withheld by the investigator. Interestingly, the photos from the DOL report were used by the investigator in his correspondence with me, so he had the name of the person who the owner said installed the fryers and the exploding hose.
Is natural justice served when I am forced to lie to get a job, ironically protecting the corrupt ? Most times if I am honest I don't make the paper sift, so I am forced to lie, then it inevitable comes out and causes resentment.
I have been severely persecuted and harassed, but the atrocious handling of the cert system by the PGDB, accepting incomplete certs… filled out with different colour ink, gets zero action?.
Of Note see below...the "15" the day of signing off the test for leaks is in a different colour ink to the 06 and 03...this is on the explosion cert ...really? that’s ok !!!.... same blue ink as is HALF the info for the exploding fryers, see below, the rest is in black...the idiot who did this did not have the sense (nor care) to use the same colour ink for the dodgy additions...there are a lot of these. I have the copies if anyone wants to see them...these are the type of people the PGDB stand by and protect ?
Shame on you, please table this email to the PGDB. I just want to ensure they are aware of the blatant corruption the PGDB are standing by and covering up…Please correct me at any point that I have wrong.
There is so much more to this, it needs to be shown for what it is, a witch-hunt carried out with real Health and Safety risks to the NZ public, covering up an explosion that nearly ended in a death. If it had happened an hour either side, it would have injured, even killed school kids on the way to school or patrons/staff at the pub next door having smoko.
It wasn't just the work of the investigator, there are several people who did this, literally a conspiracy.
Conspiracy… Noun… a secret plan by a group to do something unlawful or harmful.
Believe me these actions were harmful, and in all probability illegal (at least is should be). The record should show that I am an innocent man, but the PGDB’s legacy is one of protecting corruption. Where are the news reporters whose job it is to out this kind of wrong doing. Helping to protect the innocent and the Kiwi public?
If this gets swept under the carpet...will it help or hinder? Will it give the corrupts a green light to carry on regardless?
The PGDB remind me of a flock of geese, the one's at the front of the V change periodically, but the flock head in the same predetermined direction.
Of Note....The PGDB have stopped publishing the minutes for their hearings...I am told to save room...several pages of A4 of data a month...room saved in this day and age digitally...I'll say that again...to save room. A year's worth of these minutes wouldn't fill a divider in a draw in a filing cabinet.
The one set of minutes I requested generated 16 pages of A4. Three attachments of 119KB, 104KB and 284 KB....507KB space saved DIGITALLY … Interestingly these documents sent to me had more redactions than a document leak on a JFK assassination press release, it is a crap joke. I am told by the PGDB that these redactions are to protect people's privacy ...but whole sections are blanked out, not just people’s identities.
To quote...."Sorry Paul, I put you wrong about why the Board meeting minutes were no longer published on the website" and "they were removed to allow us to use the space for other information about the Board”…500KB per month or 6MB of digital “space” per year, sounds a bit odd. Does this scream transparency and openness???
People tend to act with impunity, because they can. And do not stop until they can't.
Yours with Integrity
Paul Gee
.
-
.
Some of the attachments from my email...bloody embarrassing if you ask me... ??? ??? ???
.
-
.
Compare the dates on these, this is the cert I told the auditor I didn't do, but he claimed to have audited me anyway...
-
.
The Prime Minister and all the present day MPs officially know all this now, the PGDB know they know. Oh and by the way...the PGDB do not deny anything I have said, but they do refuse to talk about it. Sounds transparent and fair.
I was found 95% innocent in their biased slanted kangaroo court, with the last charge totally dismissed by a British Standard...so in my mind I have proven myself innocent...I have proven to have done no wrong, at all.
BUT THAT IS NOT THE POINT...
MY FAMILY WERE TORRORISED FOR NEARLY TWO YEARS AND WE LOST EVERYTHING. FOR NO REASON OTHER THAN CORRUPT, CRONY PROTECTING, NARCISSISTIC, INCOMPETANT, ARSE COVERING COWARDS FELT LIKE DOING IT, AGAINST ALL THE RULES THEY HIT US WITH REGULARY, PONTIFICATING AS THEY GO.
AND...lets not for get no one has been held to account for nearly killing someone with faulty gas work, altering my original work...this could be any one of you. While cold hard facts/evidence is there and readily available, but they do nothing...9 people of interest...nothing...sound fair???
I still suffer the consequences of it all, to this day... for nearly 15 years, I will probably snap one day.
So if the shit hits the fan, you know, who knows...
.
-
Sent yesterday.
None of this below is denied by the PGDB, but they do refuse to talk about it, I am told they are still not doing the right thing up to today to people and have done it to far more people than just me. Sounds fair eh?
Anyone of you could be put in this position at any time, someone alters your work and if it suits the PGDB will go after you, even to the point of ignoring the blatant true culprit (and 9 people of interest at the same time). To the point of NO ONE being held accountable for nearly killing someone. No action from the elected "leaders" on this kind of corruption.
In my mind if you take no action against corruption, then you are by default condoning corruption.
Dear Prime Minister and Minister,
Please can you tell me when I might receive a reply with some meaningful action.
Or do you condone this kind of blatant corruption of which you are now more than aware of, corruption done with an egregious abuse of power that my family has had inflicted upon them. I struggle to this day, ask and I am more than happy to explain why.
I have proven myself to have done nothing wrong whatsoever. I proved myself 95% innocent of 44 trumped up charges in a biased and conflicted kangaroo court, with the remaining bullsh*t charge dismissed by a British Standard, which I was prevented from producing at my appeal. Does the ignorance of a corrupt disciplinary board make this legally accepted British Standard cease to exist?
I endured a 2 year witch hunt for something I tried to prevent for nearly 6 years previous to that explosion. Then terrorised for two years with threats, stress, withheld/misrepresented evidence, character assasination, untruths and child sexual abuse case notes (case notes to prove a point on probabilities in a gasfitting context, just vile and sick). Losing our home, business and reputation. I have had this struggle for nearly 15 years, the more I investigate the more I find. My will is not waning, but gaining as time passes.
This 2 year witch hunt carried out by people the NZ Law Commission states should not even be in power. A witch hunt that ignored all that was in the instigating document, a report from Dept of Labour that not only exonerated me, but named others who were far more responsible.
No one to this day has been held responsible for altering my work and causing an explosion and NEARLY KILLING SOMEONE, while ignoring blatant evidence and 9 people of interest. Most of this BLATANT evidence is not just in the possession of the PGDB, but also in your possession now.
All done while ignoring the ancient Law of Torts, that if ignored means we do not live in a free society.
Do you side with the corrupt or protect the innocent ?
I am aghast and very concerned that the present NZ democratically elected leader and his specific minister for energy and building/construction (which could not be a more relevant combination to an exploding building) have their hands tied when it comes to addressing this.
As per Megan's most recent letter to me, apparently the PGDB are statutory independent, and also non liable. Sounds a bit wild west, more like Cowboys and Idiots in my opinion. I know of more people who have had this done to them, right up to this day, they have learnt nothing from their "mistakes". Which appear to be in my case premeditated mistakes.
The only leverage us plebs have is during an election, or the lead up to an election.
Please show this the concern it demands at your nearest convenience, unless of course you side with the corrupts.
Yours with honesty and integrity,
Paul Gee
.
-
They know that you know....
Paul Gee
07:42 (0 minutes ago)
to BuildingAndConstructionPortfolio, megan.woods, Chris.Hipkins
Dear All,
FYI. Please see link below where I have posted my previous email on a industry focused forum, with over 163,000 "reads"
https://www.plumbers.nz/fellow-practitioners-update/41/fellow-practitioner-issue-236-dated-12-december-2014/1810/msg13285#msg13285
I have told the PGDB that I have posted here previously about the corruption levelled at my family, They do not seem to care this is publicly aired in such an industry focused forum, they act above the law and even public opinion apparently, in the face of the NZ Law Commission and the Law of Torts.
Is this the kind of system that helps NZ?
Yours with Integrity
Paul Gee
.
-
What would you do if someone altered your work, causing an explosion that nearly killed someone, and then the PGDB go after you with focused biased venom while ignoring blatant evidence and terrorising your wife with child sexual abuse case notes.
Then when you proved it wasn't you that caused the explosion, the PGDB did not even attempt to find the really guilty, IGNORING BLATANT EVIDENCE AND NINE PEOPLE OF INTEREST ... all for a situation you spent 6 years trying to warn about it happening, well before it exploded, i.e. warning about dodgy certs covering dangerous work.
I have battled this for nearly 15 years, do you think I will give up, nah not in my character.
Like I told one of the corrupts "I am an African honey badger mate!!!." after the coward threatened me with "we'll railroad you if you make a mistake". He said this well before this explosion happened. Remember ya coward when I saw you a few years back and you couldn't look me in the eye, little scurrier you are ain't ya!!!.
Well the system that was too big to fail, has failed. All I said to this coward was "its all about who you know, not what you know"...when I was trying to tell him about how dangerous my old boss was. Think you are connected and protected???...I was the Nelson Master Plumber president at the time he threatened me at an AGM where the next day he became the National president. You know who you are spineless.
The more I look, the more I find, rotten to the core.
It could be you, think of all that work you have out there... all done in your name, then some monkey decides to mess with your safe work, hurts someone (worse kills them)...do you really think these people will do the right thing... I KNOW HOW THEY BEHAVE, its not a suspicion or opinion ... I have actually experienced it
From: Paul Gee <pgee3366@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, 17 August 2023 8:47 am
To: Chris.Hipkins@parliament.govt.nz; Megan.Woods@parliament.govt.nz; 'BuildingAndConstructionPortfolio' <BuildingAndConstruction.Portfolio@parliament.govt.nz>
Cc: David.Seymour@parliament.govt.nz; Christopher.Baillie@parliament.govt.nz; 'Wal Gordon' <wal.gordon@xtra.co.nz>; 'Emma Gee' <thegeegang@gmail.com>
Subject: Public inquiry
Dear Prime Minister,
I have just come across a very interesting article in the NZ Herald and as all things in law appear to be based on past presidents, I would ask you to compare the parallels in my witch-hunt to this situation in the article.
I would draw your attention to this article, link below-
https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/other/police-launch-review-after-disclosure-bungle-blows-up-murder-trial/ar-AA1fkmGr?ocid=socialshare&cvid=ce90dae64a8e4a8aab2580bd50ef5ce3&ei=30
From this article below in blue -
A few days into the Crown case it emerged two notebooks and hundreds of photographs had not made their way to the defence lawyers.
And -
In response to questions from the Herald, a police spokesman said a review would be carried out.
“We acknowledge the finding of the court regarding this trial and have immediately sought to rectify the issues identified,” the statement said.
The parallels to my case are over 100 photos were withheld by the investigator, as well as an extra note book. The legal counsel for the investigator apologised to my advocate (industry stalwart, Wal Gordon) for this undisclosed extra note book. Even the investigators own council was kept in the dark about this extra note book!
After just a few days, the Crown had to abandon the case against three potential murderers. Releasing them, I say potential because they couldn’t see the trial through, abandoned due to a faulty process.
In my case an opportunity to abandon my witch-hunt was offered to the PGDB via an “Impartiality” hearing that was held 22nd February before my May 2011 hearing . At this farce the PGDB judged their own impartiality… and hazard a guess what they decided about their own conflicts of interest ..yep, you guessed it, they totally decided they were impartial and went on to ignore huge conflicts of interest. Judging your own impartiality is at the very least awful grammar, an oxy moron.
“We are conducting a review of the disclosure in this case to ensure that our processes and training provide the platform for file managers to comply with all statutory requirements.”
If the crown can release three potential murderers and hold a review to comply with all statutory requirements, due to incorrect procedure. Why can’t the PGDB be made to look in the mirror admit their wrong doing and apologise to my wife. I have proved myself innocent after being put through the mill for it, after enduring a two year character assassination. Of which, I suffer consequences right up until today.
Why can’t we do the same with my case, abandon my case making the ridiculous appeal moot and hold a review to ensure it never happens again. If the PGDB don’t admit any wrong doing they will never learn. They are still to this day, and have done in the past, steamrolling people’s lives. All done in the face of the NZ Law Commission’s recommendations on conflicts of interest.
Past presidents are very relevant to my witch-hunt, dealing with the PGDB. Past presidents of child sexual abuse case notes were used to prove a point on probabilities. These were sent unmarked of their vile content to my home and opened by my wife, just before we were forced to sell our newly renovated home and she was forced to live in a caravan for a winter with my 3 and 5 year old sons, while I worked away.
Someone nearly died in an explosion and you are allowing the PGDB to ignore blatant obvious evidence that points to the culprit and 9 people of interest for the rest of the trumped up charges. My work was altered and a man nearly got killed, with two families very much affected (in a horrendous way).
The prosecution is required by law to disclose to a defendant all evidence against them and other relevant information held , apparently not if you work for the “PGDB mafia”. Which is how the young PGDB solicitor referred to the PGDB when making small talk with me outside my hearing.
If no action is taken, then I put it to you that you are protecting corruption with a lack of accountability for someone nearly being killed. Are tradesman lower in importance and basic rights than three potential murderers?
I don’t think this is you, and I ask you Prime Minister with all due humility and respect to please order a public inquiry or at least a review. Please do the right thing. Please explain how NZ is better served by protecting these corrupt cronies?
I am told regularly to “just get on with my life”, well if my life could be reinstated I would happily do so.
Yours with honesty and integrity Paul Gee
-
.
At no point have my accusations or claims been denied, think about that... I can back everything with evidence, and they know it.
.
-
From: Paul Gee <pgee3366@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, 18 September 2023 12:49 pm
To: megan.woods@parliament.govt.nz; Chris.Hipkins@parliament.govt.nz; BuildingAndConstructionPortfolio <BuildingAndConstruction.Portfolio@parliament.govt.nz>; Chris Baillie <Christopher.Baillie@parliament.govt.nz>; David.Seymour@parliament.govt.nz; Amanda Smith <Amanda@pgdb.co.nz>; Wal Gordon <wal.gordon@xtra.co.nz>; Emma Gee <thegeegang@gmail.com>
Cc: TVNZ <news@tvnz.co.nz>; stuff.co.nz <newstips@stuff.co.nz>
Subject: Re: update your information
Hi All,
So I am to be ignored?
No one has corrected me nor pointed out my mistakes or anything I have "made up"... so where does that place you and your condoning of corruption for a near fatality?
I am appalled by your inaction. I would ask how do you sleep at night, but I guess the reply would be on ill earnt silk pillows.
For such outspoken, full of hot air people to remain silent means you have nothing to say, not even to protect your position...which ironically speaks volumes to me.
It appears you condone the innocent to pay the dues of the guilty.
I will post this with the rest on the link below, a man was nearly killed and you care not.
https://www.plumbers.nz/fellow-practitioners-update/41/fellow-practitioner-issue-236-dated-12-december-2014/1810/msg13287#msg13287
Yours with Integrity Paul Gee
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 at 16:44, Paul Gee <pgee3366@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Megan,
Please see attached how you are very much able to hold the PGDB to account. It is literally one of your duties. I have attached a copy for your convenience.
You'll notice that the investigation has now been limited to 80 days and Natural Justice should be observed (please see snippet below).
For comparison, my investigation took just over two years (730 plus days) and Natural Justice was ignored, as was the DOL report that started all this off, the same report that names who was responsible and why it exploded, all totally nothing to do with me.
Amanda (from the PGDB), by means of an OIA request please can I get copies of the agreements between the minister and PGDB that was in place during the time from my initial warnings about dodgy certs covering dangerous work, when the PGDB illegally persecuted my family and ignored someone nearly dying from an explosion, after someone altered my gas work, i.e. from 2003 to the present.
Please provide the same agreement copies to all in the email address that this has been sent to. Please remember Amanda that 20 working days is a limit and not a target, it should be able to be sent tomorrow (but you won't and never have).
Yours With Integrity Paul Gee.
-
What is the point of having Acts and agreements if they are ignored when it suits?
From: pgee3366@gmail.com <pgee3366@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, 19 September 2023 7:46 am
To: megan.woods@parliament.govt.nz; Chris.Hipkins@parliament.govt.nz; 'BuildingAndConstructionPortfolio' <BuildingAndConstruction.Portfolio@parliament.govt.nz>; 'Chris Baillie' <Christopher.Baillie@parliament.govt.nz>; David.Seymour@parliament.govt.nz; 'Amanda Smith' <Amanda@pgdb.co.nz>; 'Wal Gordon' <wal.gordon@xtra.co.nz>; 'Emma Gee' <thegeegang@gmail.com>; 'Hon Damien O'Connor' <Damien.O'Connor@parliament.govt.nz>
Cc: 'TVNZ' <news@tvnz.co.nz>; 'stuff.co.nz' <newstips@stuff.co.nz>
Subject: Cover up of a near fatal explosion
Dear Megan and Prime Minister,
Please see attached the agreements between the minister and the PGDB. Please can you point out where the PGDB or any minister before or present have honoured these agreements with regards to the near fatal explosion that has ruined my life, business and reputation. I know they have not honoured these documents in my case (and others) and can provide ample proof that the PGDB are incompetent and corrupt.
I openly put it to you that these “agreements” have been ignored by all parties that are mentioned in these agreements. I also put it to you that those who continue to ignore these legal documents (promises to do good) are as corrupt as those that inflicted the witch-hunt on my family.
A MAN NEARLY DIED AND NO ONE HAS BEEN HELD ACCOUNTABLE, WHILST IGNORING EVIDENCE THAT SHOWS WHO WAS RESPONSIBLE.
Megan you have played on semantics’ and tried to avoid these agreements by stating that you cannot do anything because the PGDB have “statutory independence”, when this attitude is paired with their perceived “non liability” status as per the Act, it is no wonder that they behave as they do with utter impunity. It will never be fixed if they do not admit their wrong doing and atone for their egregious behaviour.
What appears to be conveniently ignored is that all these documents, (these attached agreements and the Act) have as a proviso that all actions of the PGDB must be done in good faith with the best of intentions, while observing natural justice. THE PGDB HAVE NOT DONE THIS, if you think they have please point me in the direction of that evidence.
I put it to you and the PM, that natural justice and good intentions have not been observed in my case whatsoever, and I am sure many others have suffered similar. If you ignore this, then I put it to you that you’re as bad as the cronies who act with impunity, I say this because your inaction condones their behaviour, worse it empowers their future behaviour.
Please can you honour the agreements and hold them to account. It is your job to do so.
A man nearly died in an explosion, in a situation I had continually warned could happen for nearly 6 years prior to that explosion. I was then framed and character assassinated to cover up their abysmal behaviour, huge conflicts of interest and incompetencies. Please call me out on this and I will provide all the evidence you will need. That is if you have the will to pursue fairness and justice.
I ask with all due respect (which wains daily) that you honour these agreements, or at the very least point out where I am wrong or mistaken. If you do not have the will or stomach for this then please point me in the direction of someone with a moral compass and a spine.
Happy to travel and bring my evidence with me, I have emailed and asked to see Damian O’Connor my local MP, but have received no reply.
As always this email will be publicly posted and on the link below (link has 165 000 reads specific to the industry)…
https://www.plumbers.nz/fellow-practitioners-update/41/fellow-practitioner-issue-236-dated-12-december-2014/1810/msg13287#msg13287
Please do the right thing and stop this corrupt incompetent cronyism. I just want my name cleared and the PGDB to apologise to my wife, while observing the recommendations made in the attached agreements and the NZ Law Commission, paper below in attachments.
Do you believe these well-meaning legal documents are not worth the paper they are written on? Or are the documents to be ignored to protect corrupt cronies? Please can you show this some urgency, preferably before the upcoming election.
Yours with Integrity
Paul Gee
.
-
.
No reply, whatsoever.
Yes I am aware there is an election on and I am not at all important (15 years of being publicly set up and framed by corrupts has effectively illustrated how much I do not matter to these people).
But during an election wouldn't you anything to dismiss ANY claims of corruption and prove there is no corruption? Unless you can't dismiss or prove it...then best policy would be to ignore it...
.
-
From: pgee3366@gmail.com <pgee3366@gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, 11 October 2023 12:40 am
To: megan.woods@parliament.govt.nz; Chris.Hipkins@parliament.govt.nz; 'BuildingAndConstructionPortfolio' <BuildingAndConstruction.Portfolio@parliament.govt.nz>; 'Chris Baillie' <Christopher.Baillie@parliament.govt.nz>; David.Seymour@parliament.govt.nz; 'Amanda Smith' <Amanda@pgdb.co.nz>; 'Wal Gordon' <wal.gordon@xtra.co.nz>; 'Emma Gee' <thegeegang@gmail.com>; 'Hon Damien O'Connor' <Damien.O'Connor@parliament.govt.nz>
Cc: 'TVNZ' <news@tvnz.co.nz>; 'stuff.co.nz' <newstips@stuff.co.nz>; feedback@theamshow.co.nz
Subject: RE: Cover up of a near fatal explosion
Hi Megan,
I received today a phone call from a very nice lady called Emily Pyke, she was a nurse and rang to check on my mental health.
She listened and was very professional, a rare occurrence in my experience. Thank you for providing a vent for me, but I would rather explain to you in person.
I am confused though, as I say in the link below, my mental health can be improved considerably (and quite simply) with some honesty and fair play. In nearly 21 years I have received neither.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7hoUnTWRwA
You obviously shared my emails with her and she mentions that I am at the end of my tether in those emails. How far along your tether would you be after 21 years of corruption?
I would appreciate a response from you and not an unknown person checking if I am ok, all I need is justice. Its that simple.
Yours with Integrity Paul Gee
-
.
"Concerned" ::) enough to get a psych nurse to ring me and check my mental health, a nurse that agreed with most of what I said by the way, but no reply to my email below from Megan. Par for the course. No surprises there then.
.
-
.
Still no reply from Megan ::)
.
-
...
15 years yesterday the explosion nearly killed someone, no body held accountable until today, all done while ignoring blatant evidence...even the initial DOL report exonerates me and points to people still ignored to this day, all my evidence points to the same place...same guy faced the same charge as me for the chip shop explosion...I was PROVEN innocent...his charge disappeared before his hearing.
Still no contact from any mp's....