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Hi,
I recently had a plumber fit out a commercial property. I felt the plumber was over charging and over inflating his hours so after the initial pipeout I decided it was best to send him on his way.
In continuing on with the fit out of the kitchenettes and bathrooms etc myself. I decided that every wing-back was incorrectly installed. Standard Kitchen benchtops are 900mm high Mixer hoses seem to range from 322mm Methevn to the Hanza I'm installing at 394mm. Leaving me to the conclusion that it would be silly to install a wing-back lower than 600m from the floor. I'm now having to purchase extension hoses at $30 x 4 kitchenettes.
What height should a kitchen wing-backs be installed at?
Second issue:
The building is lined with 13mm Gib. This leave me to the conclusion that all wing-back would be be installed flush with the front of the Gib. Many are installed 10-15mm deep inside the wall adding the thickness of the Gib that's 23-28mm deep. This has required me to go out and purchase MF sockets for each value sometimes 2 per valve.
What depth should wing-backs installed at?
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hello jrmurdock, you have created more questions than answers!
Are you a currently licenced certifying plumber? if not you should not be touching sanitary plumbing.
what was your issue with the plumber you employed?
these 2 questions are a good start.
regards :)
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Hi bowtieboy,
I'm not a plumber, I employed a plumber who was was fully qualified. This is where I get a bit annoyed, I'm not a plumber, the hight and depth of wing-backs seems common sense to me how come someone who does this as a job get it wrong.
What i'm really after is assurance I have it right.... maybe there is a reason behind the madness (I doubt).
The wing-backs are just scratching the surface.
In my opinion a plumber should.
- Turn up with his own printout of the plans.
- Know how to use a ruler.
- Look at the equipment provided (I.e check where the cistern tap is located, in this case they were located under the lid, not to the left of the bowl!)
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LOL ::)
pop into mitre 10 mega and ask to talk to stan - he will see you right old mate
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hi jrmurdoch
Your a keen man that comes on a plumbing web site and admits to doing illegal plumbing ! ::)
i wish you the best of luck with gaining your coc. ???
i can see the council inspector at your door with an order to stop work for non compliance and Max standing behind him with his 15 lawyers rubbing their hands together. :D
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The legal side of things are interesting....
First off i think there are a lot of Myths out there.
For COC:
At the time of the pre‐line/plumbing inspection, the certifying plumber who undertook the plumbing work shall provide the building inspector with a completed (Construction Statement ‐ Pipework Test) form.
As the mess/pre-line was done by the plumber, hence I have the pipework test completed.
Even if I had done all the plumbing work myself, all that would be required is to get a plumber to:
NZBC G12 VM1, AS/NZS 3500.1:2003: By pressurising the pipework to 1500 kpa for a period of not less than 30 minutes and checking to see that there are no leaks
That's it.... the plumber doesn't need to sign his life away or warranty the work in any way.... he just needs to do a simple pressure test!
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LOL - obviously Stan gave you some great advice...
NZBC counts for didly - read the governing act
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NZBC counts for didly - read the governing act
LOL integrated, you must be like the plumber I employed. Unable to give an actual answer to the question, yet able to offer some bung legal advice on the side.
For your reference COC / "certificate of compliance" is compliance with the NZBC. It has nothing to do with your "governing act"
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NZBC counts for didly - read the governing act
LOL integrated, you must be like the plumber I employed. Unable to give an actual answer to the question, yet able to offer some bung legal advice on the side.
For your reference COC / "certificate of compliance" is compliance with the NZBC. It has nothing to do with your "governing act"
LOL - your op drivel? surely someone that is intelligent enough to look at the nzbc is intelligent enough to figure out your little conundrum?
my commentary is in reference to the illegal plumbing works undertaken by yourself making your insurance null & void - what you are undertaking is a prosecute-able criminal offence and isn't actually in compliance with the NZBC - there is way more to it than the clause you chose to pull out.
everyone on here would be able to give an answer to your opening post but probably choose not to for similar reasons - most tradesmen are sick to the back teeth of know-all clients that have google as there best friend...
there is no hard and fast rule for anything you asked about because it is not an issue for a tradesman to carry on and complete the job in a competent & compliant manner
m+f ext sockets.....
lmfao ???
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Yes Yes Yes Integrated. Most Plumbers would know the reasons why they position wingbacks at the height and depth that they do such as a preference to use barrel nipples and flanges, to keep connections where they are easily accessible no hidden behind a commercial sink where they are hard to get at, in case some verticalled challenged people take residence in the property and want to lower the sink.
Welcome to our world jrmurdoch where the regulations are as twisted as the people writing and imposing them, where most people think it's just a matter of doing a couple of connections and turning on the water but forget about cross connections, siphoning and other issues that could contaminate a towns water supply. Where you can read on bit of legislation and it will tell you one thing and read another and it is interpreted different.
For example jrmurdoch changing a toilet seat is sanitary plumbing where if must be done by a registered tradesperson and if that person is only licensed then they must be supervised by a Certifying Plumber. You can't blame the tradespeople as we don't make the rules we just abide by them the same as everyone else should.
As far as price goes if you got it done for less that $120.00 an hour you got a good deal.
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1) Quite obvious jrmurdoch doesnt give a s##t about whether what he is doing is legal or not, neither does the rest of nz public.
2) Asking professional trades people what to do as he intends to diy makes us all 'assholes' for not being interested in assisting him.When week in and week out people just like jrmurdoch demand to know how to do a job themselves that we call a 'career' just so they can save a few dollars....
ps you are arrogant and I hope it floods
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;D well said Rodza and to follow I hope the insurance knock back your claim on the damages jmurdoch as that would be the perfect icing on the cake
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There is more to any job than a pre-line inspection. As for doing it yourself and getting a plumber to test it and sign for it, what f****ing planet are you on!!! Do you actually think we all owe you a favour because you are doing some poxy commercial development? I hope your origonal plumber reports YOU to the board for illegal work. I know I would .
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I'm not sure why the plumber should have turned up with his own plan???? that should have been given to him by YOU!
We do over 100 houses a year and our kitchen wingbacks are all at 600mm off the floor....sometimes you need to extend the flexi hoses....sometimes not....
but I'm sure if you look out your window you'll see the world isn't ending...stop being tight...
as for the depth.....installing 100mm dux (or whatever is your preference) male wingbacks is the best way (no threaded joint in the wall) and the dwangs set back at 35mm from the front of the framing edge....hope this helps
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While I agree with most of the comments in reply, above, I have to ask one question:
Why do Bunnings, Mitre 10 and so many other retails stores sell the whole range of Plumber Only equipment to the general public, no questions asked? This includes all the brass fittings, copper pipe, PB pipe (mostly Buteline) and all the fittings, Low and High Pressure HWC control valves, even PB Crimp tools, waste pipe, sewer pipe, Toilets, Cisterns, even High Pressure Hot Water Cylinders! This is just condoning illegal activity and plainly encouraging the public to go ahead and do their own plumbing.
Comments...?
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hi guys, because they are competing with plumbers suppliers such as Mico and Plumbing World. I buy quite a bit of stuff from Bunning's because it is cheaper than using my trade account at Mico even with trade discount. You can buy from Bunning's where the price is inclusive of G.s.t. and pay with your credit card if you choose and gain buying points for yourself. My account at Mico was brilliant before Fletchers took it over, i could get `Trade Edge 'points on all of my purchases if i settled my account on or before the 20th of month, i could also pay with my credit card to gain other purchasing points. Firstly they put a charge on paying by credit card, then they made the rule of only $2000 or more a month would qualify for `Trade Edge 'points. So now i purchase wherever i can get a good discount and pay my Mico account at the end of the month. I believe that even more discount can be gained at Bunning's if you have an account there, cheers
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Hi robbo,
Thanks for the lowdown on competitive pricing a la Bunnings etc.
However, I think you kind of missed my point. Here on this forum, plumbers jump all over people who admit to doing "illegal" plumbing, as demonstrated in this thread. And yet, Mitre 10, Bunnings and all the rest are legally permitted to sell all the plumbing stuff imaginable, to all and sundry, no questions asked, no warnings given. How many of those people get plumbers to install the stuff they buy? Not too many, I would bet. How many plumbers appreciate being given labour only jobs, because the customer has gone out and bought the materials themselves? Chances are, it's not even the correct or optimal choice of materials.
So what I'm saying is that the law is really a complete ass, because on the one hand it (apparently) says even fitting a toilet seat without being an authorised plumber is illegal (how ridiculous is that?), but on the other hand, it says to the general public, "You are welcome to go out and buy WHATEVER plumbing materials you want." Where does it say in the plumbing aisles at Bunnings etc that it is Trade-only, and unlawful to install any of these materials unless you are a plumber? Where does it warn people that their insurance will quite possibly be invalid in installed by a layperson? It doesn't. But of course, every member of the public buying plumbing materials is only buying them as ornaments and conversation pieces, right!?
There would likely be a legal argument in favour of customary practice, which says that if the public can go and buy whatever plumbing stuff they want without question, then it could be assumed that they are permitted to install it.
For example, just try going down to any chemist shop and asking for some bulk pseudo-ephedrine, some arsenic or sulphuric acid and see how you get on. Or go to a Dental Supply company and try buying a dental tool. Hell, in this country, we can't even buy Lugol's solution any more.
In my assessment, the Plumbing-related laws, rules and regulations are a complete shambles in this country. There are huge gaps on one side, and over-regulation on the other. There needs to be more of a balance, and more consistency, wouldn't you agree?
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i agree ALCAN, but frankly, the pgdb and government dont give a rats arse. we get to deal with the mess every day and these powers that govern us do didly sqwat !
why bother even worrying about it? they don't, why should we? they make the rules, we jump through THEIR hoops so we can work legally.
so the attitude to take is, wtf.
we are just pgdb monkeys. !!!! ???
i personally will look after my family before i would stick my neck out to complain about a diy job now! pgdb burnt me on that one some ten years ago.
just my opinion >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
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Roger that!
Keep your head down and carry on. Will heed your advice.
Cheers
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Hi, Alcan,
I agree with your comments. Noone has ever said plumbing/gas/drainage was a professional trade requiring licenses and qualifications...but the govt did!! yet they fail to handle the hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of sales happening monthly of consumers buying their own materials and carrying out their own work. I have seen so much of it it makes me really wonder what is going on. Ive fixed up work in quite frankly almost every situation imaginable over the years, some out right dangerous, some just stupid and laughable but I feel that you are correct in stating their is over regulation in one area and lack of it on the other side of the fence.
The phrase "dont pay someone else to do it!" when you can "do it yourself " is very misleading. I personally pay the plumbers gasfitters drainlayers board $553 dollars per year for levys and fees not including the continued professional development courses I must attend to prove to the board I am still competent which can raise the cost as high as $2k annually,yet they preach to me that I must play my part. Thats fine, and I play my part the best I can but who is playing the part of informing the big box stores that they are obligated to inform their customers that they are at risk of a monetary fine for breaching govt legislation for having a crack themselves? The answer is no one, the governing board can throw a few ads in some papers, preach to trades people through national plumbing magazines and sit back and claim their part is played and its up to us.
its a crazy world we live in with ministers that probably smoke crack and skull whiskey on a daily basis. as others have said, i dont say too much as the board will no doubt hammer me personally for god only knows what. in my time in this industry ive seen and heard too much.... probably get hung out to dry on someone elses dodgy gas installation for even commenting on this haha.