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Nov news info brief...
150 certifiers to be "audited" every year.........
How are they going to select who gets audited? Random, alphabetically, dowsing, tarot cards?
Or perhaps they now get to pick and choose who to audit ?
How open is this for abuse?
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And how will they deal with those certifiers who have not done an apprenticeship , never done any practical work in their lives and cannot do the manual work themselves? They probably wont be audited because they are all mates with the Board
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hi guys,have`nt read it yet but here it is,cheers
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Wombles mate, your so sceptic....you don't think they would go after those that they want to do over and ignore their mates do you, surely not that would be so wrong.......
Oh wait there that's what they did to me.....and there was an explosion.....
Perhaps they will have a tombola, with max turning it dressed up in a money costume and with bickers flapping his bingo wings.... HOUSE!
What a joke.
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Sent this morning, 20 working days and I'll let you know the out come.
Max,
Under an OIA request, please can you tell me
How the Board will pick out and what process the Board will apply to determine who the 150 annual audits will affect, i.e. will it be random, alphabetic, time in the trade, hand picked, pulled out of a hat, etc.
Also how will people who were given their certifying status without sitting a formal qualification, who don’t carryout any physical work and have never done any physical work be audited, for example Tony Hammond.
I am all for the tombola and monkey suit myself...... ;)
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it must be a huge relief for the cowboys out there, the chances are slimmer than ever of being audited and prosecuted for something done either out of laziness or stupidity.
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Totally agree 07442, what are the controls/protocol on who gets picked for a going over......one thing that's much easier...... it is easier to target people.....if they want to ::).
Just out of curiosity how many certifying licences are there out there? what is 150 as a % of that number?
So perhaps, we have yet another ordeal to dissuade people from setting up a business, basically if you get your certifying license then you are up for an audit, potentially annually....if the monkey pulls your name out of the tombola, so to speak. Run by people who could have an interest in putting you out of business.......what could possibly go wrong..... :o
The past 2 audit systems have been abused, apparently.... so I have been told, to make money or target business opposition. How are we to know whether this one will be......hmmmm, I wonder.
I know we are told to ignore the past.....I think we are fools to.....my past experience tells me it is more likely than not you will be screwed over.
My licence money is going in the Feds trust fund.....the only people who have shown any integrity, honesty and openness.....not to mention being right on every complaint they made....showing these clowns for what they are......clowns.
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hi guys/ (Just out of curiosity how many certifying licences are there out there? what is 150 as a % of that number?)
Badger, the boards web site shows that there are `1231`certifying licences, so if my maths are correct i make it:12.2%,cheers
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Roll up, roll up, roll up, all you cowboys and chancers out there.....1 in 8 chance of getting caught......
Or if you piss them off......a very real chance of getting screwed over annually.....or if your their mate or fellow industry organisation member, never even getting your door knocked.
I wonder which person thought this up, Coco, Bozo or Blinko....or somebody with an agenda to weed people out.
Can you trust this system to these people, taking into account their past record.
I have a scenario for you.....you out price or out shine some connected person, he asks his mates at the Board to apply pressure on you.....they trump up "cause for concern" at the "random" annual audit....then they go through you like a dose of salts......and publically humiliate you in your local paper.
I had this happen to me......same crew, same M.O. .......all except one thing........
Some one nearly died in an explosion.......if they can do this to me with such a huge and public incident involved......what do you think they can do to each and everyone of you, WITH NO EXPLOSION!!!! All quite and hush hush in the shadows of their back rooms, all kept quiet until ALL your customers think your dodgy and incompetent, done with a press release.
Now bear in mind, that I beat the all but 2 charges out of 44 charges (and the last two are utter bollox), and under the Board's own assessor I was found to be in the top 10% of people he had ever assessed.....my business re-launch has failed, people still think I am incompetent, mud sticks.....all because I don't have the resources and public pull of a supposedly trusted public government agency....
If you are not concerned about this you are either sucking up to them already and like the taste (but this is no protection at all, there is no loyalty or morals and your probably too scared to stand up for yourself), or you are totally naïve or an ostrich, or like a gamble......
We can stop it today together, or you can roll the dice to face it alone tomorrow......think about it!
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To those that think this a reason to have a Master Plumber membership as any type of "insurance".....I was Nelson's Assoc President just before the explosion.......and a member for many years before that.....they have no loyalty or morals.
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Speaking of explosions, still no news from the Board or anyone else regarding the gas explosion up north that DID kill a woman earlier this year.
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:o......
Put an Official Information Act request in to see what was done.
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I have no problem per se with the Board doing random audits - on gasfitters, plumbers and drainlayers BUT I think we have a right to know the process they will follow, WHO will be doing them, and I DO NOT support them being done as a term and condition of holding a licence. The last lot of audits the Board carried out over many years became somewhat of a joke, which is why I believe they stopped them. Gasfitters worked collegially and told other gasfitters what sort of questions were being asked (each time they had a bent on a particular area of the code) and so they had the answers ready. As it followed such a formset process it became more about playing the system than acknowledging any sort of competency of tradespeople. Additionally some of the auditors were found wanting and could not interpret the answers in a wider frame. I know at our firm we had an "audit box" all ready to go to try and cut down the time involved for practitioners.
I am interested to see how they will approach this with plumbers and drainlayers as gasfitters are easy pickings.
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oh no no Jax.
gas fitters are NOT easy pickings, if anything we gas fitters are the ones who are thick skinned thanks to audits since 1993 !
its the plumbers and drain layers that are the virgins that will be completely screwed over, just like what is going to happen to builders....
you see... it will happen :o
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get ready to assume the position.....
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hi guys, Badger is this similar to the `assumed position` that you are speaking of? cheers
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Similar , but they usually use a tree size roll of paper work and legal fee receipts, all paid for by you, with all their wages to carry it out paid for by you, and the legal team used to deliver the paper enema, again all paid for by you etc, etc. all advertised in your local paper, paid for by you.
Wait until, like the gas fitting, we have high risk, low risk and general plumbing and drainage...all of which will be signed off within a very confusing system, all paid for by you.....
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hi guys, but what happens if you refuse to go along with the audit? you may be to busy/going on holiday/sick, just to name a few adjournment tatics, but there must be lots more. If everyone of us used these tactics the system would never get going and would be deemed as a waste of time and scraped,cheers
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......they will just say you don't get a license and then go after you for working with no license.
The worst part about all this BS, is most, if not all tradesman I know, try to do their best, work to standards and regs and are all for licenses and proper qualifications......but the clowns are empowering the cowboys and going after the people they want to, with disregard for safety....
You can't get much worse an example of this than my case......
To them its all about looking after your mates and shafting the opposition......it is the worst case of dumbing down our industry.
I am sure if all I am saying is not true I would be getting a letter from them telling me to wind my neck in, but they can't because it is true.
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Reply see attached.....
This is a licence to hold a legal witch hunt, it is totally up to them and their level of ethics (see gutter).
You have a chance to unite and do something in the new year.....or get ready for a going over on your own as and when it suits them.
I can't emphasise enough that "thinking" your "in" with these unscrupulous bastards is any protection, at all what so ever....it really isn't.
Happy Christmas guys and here's to hoping for a good new year......be lucky people.
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Just a thought guys.....do any of you know of/heard of such a way of randomly choosing, using this computer programme, I've never heard of it....love to know if you have heard of it.
If so, tell me so I can use it to pick one of them out, if they go after me for no reason AGAIN! ;).
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hi guys,Badger I reckon they will have a lotto type draw with balls that have all our reg nos on then its lotto odds of being audited, ever won lotto? if you get picked then fail the audit they may have you `spin the wheel` to see what the punishment is going to be, could even be live on telly just to show the 'public 'what they do to protect their `health and safety` cheers, have a great xmas.
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The scope for abuse is amazing, and very wrong.
Look at how they have targeted people in the past, now they don't even have to wait for a "complaint", they can just have a "random" pick out of their electronic hat and....well you know the rest.
They couldn't even run something as important as the electronic cert register and had to put a disclaimer on it.....what do you think they will do to this?
Perhaps a disclaimer of "May be used to screw you over and not necessarily reflect the truth" should be used.
Its gone past a joke.
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Pretty soon we will have the "Annual Plumber Games" - very similar to the Hunger Games whereby the plumbers whose number are drawn, get hunted to the death by the Board