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Hi all, I was asked an interesting question today concerning wall, roof and slab penetrations. We are doing some plumbing on a Hebel house (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autoclaved_aerated_concrete), not sure if you guys are familiar with the product. The builder gave me a bell today and inquired about my pipe penetrating the block, in this case the slab, advising that I am responsible for water proofing the penetration. The builder is a good friend so no disputes but both of us simply want to get to the bottom of it. With a standard timber home we penetrate the building paper and usually the builder comes along and "tapes it up", we seal the roof penetration (deck-tight) unless its specialized material such as bitumen or Asphalt (If its true though, then I must also do this). So is it a matter of choice or "IS" the plumber responsible (required by law) for every pipe and sewer penetration? In my case its not just tape or a deck-tight its most likely a special water proofing membrane that needs to be applied in a specialized manner im just not sure about this one. Any feedback on this would be much appreciated.
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I always have a roll of tape for the standard (usual) penetrations and do my own but I write on my quote that all penetrations that require specialised sealants are the responsibilility of the builder to arrange with the applicaticator eg roofer etc. I am not and cannot be expected to be a specialist in every type of fancy coating, nor will I carry 2000 types of sealant in 400 colours each. Perhaps someone can give us the low down on the legalities
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I agree Wombles but he seams to make a point that legally speaking a builder could make you do it, like it or not. Been going through my codes but cant find anything black and white.
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it would depend on the licensed building practitioner strand wouldn't it?
ie as a plumber we gain cladding strands in profiled metal as well as brick/block?
we would be responsible for the penetration in the vapour barriers - would make sense wouldnt it? we make penetrations in timber studs we seal them dont we albeit for different reasons?
I'm not sure if hebel would be included as brick/block as it is in my opinion a specialized product? Not sure about that though as I have seen everyman and his dog have a crack at it - our builders install it in my neck of the woods...
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I think Hebel falls in the category brick/block, I see your point integrated. Would you expect having to waterproof slab penetrations yourself? I wouldn't even think of it to be honest. And the question remains whether its a plumbers job, if yes in one case then yes in all?
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yeah I dont know - I hear what ya sayin, we wouldnt want the builders to get too carried away with it though aye?
when you say waterproof slab penetrations are talking about sealing the penetration through the poly? - if so I say no way thats up to whoever installs said poly
my general rule of thumb has been if my pipes are poking through wall prior to cladding then whoever clads seals - but if my pipe goes in after something has been clad then yeah I would make an effort to seal my penetration - then of course if pipe goes in after everything - ie renovation or such then how are you supposed to seal vapour barrier anyway? surely no one expects a plumber to open a hole up to gain access to cavity to tape it up?!?
interesting topic, alot of times on commercial jobs it is spec'd who seals penetrations etc
probably a case of rules/regs/legislation saying/inferring one thing but in reality the practicalities and logistics of it all would make it extremely inefficient and productivity would surely fall?!?
seems to be the trend these days though where the government are always blowing on about NZ's need to be more productive but then introducing rules/regs/legislation that completely inhibit that!!!
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Hi Guys.
A very interesting subject but one issue that comes to mind is the cost. As there seems to be confusion as to who's responsibility it is everyone will cover it in their quotes and the cost of housing goes up again.
Just a thought.
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True, cost and time is a big factor, do I now have to add "waterproofing not included" in my quotes just to be on the safe side? In regards to the penetrations, we did an under-slab and the 100mm sewer pipe comes out the side of the building envelope through the concrete block (Hebel goes on top of that), I assume water proofing is only required to the outside. I'm a bit puzzled about this not sure whether the board of even council can answer this question.
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Have forwarded this link to the builder, very curios to see if we get some feedback :)
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On large commercial builds the responsibility lies with the main contractor - but it is a murky area I think with domestic - to be on the safe side I would tag out. I have a nagging feeling there might be something in the deeming sections around LPB's and plumbers - I might have to look at the documentation I have on Monday - there is stuff about penetrations and flashings... just can't recall exactly what it was...
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I have a situation where we have penetrated a wall with a gas pipe and a water pipe , the wall is a cavity with cedar weather board , the council inspector wants the builder to remove the weatherboards and seal aound the pipes with the standard flashing tape to the building wrap material, technically he may be correct but I can see no reason why the pipes cannot be sealed in the manner he wants from the inside , if any water that passes the sealant and flange from the outside what difference is it going to make if it contacts the building wrap, has anyone experienced this and what are your thoughts , what can you do if you are involved in a renovation , and need to penetrate the cladding for any reason be it plumbing, gas, electrical ,alarms, tv you name it , surely they dont want the exterior cladding removed to deal with a penetration , seems to me this is an inspector who is being totally pedantic , interested to get some views .
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just looke up E2 fig 68 (b) gives the details I require , as long as the pipe has a slope to the outside and solid blocked we dont need to tape the pipe as he has requested , this detail was amended August 2011 I hope it is current ,