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Two and a half years of hard work came to fruition last week when the Ombudsman made a formal recommendation that the Plumbers Gasfitters and Drainlayers Board enter into discussions with representatives of persons registered under the Plumbers Gasfitters and Drainlayers Act 2006.
The discussions are to achieve a satisfactory arrangement with persons who have paid excess amounts of levy under the Plumbers, Gasfitters and Drainlayers Board (Fees) Notice 2010 in respect of the disciplinary levy. The amount has been calculated by the Ombudsman as being $90.00 per person who registered or licensed between 31 July 2010 and 11 January 2012. This is estimated to be around $600,000.
“It’s a good result but it’s not about winning. We would prefer to have a competent Board that listens and operates in a legal manner. This is yet another example of poor leadership and lack of legislative understanding by the PGDB.”
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hi guys, WOW, i bet the board didn`t see that one coming, i wonder if they will put out another`February 2013 special issue` to let us know about it,cheers
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A huge congrates to the team........please use OUR money to pay for OUR OWN legal team to get justice for US......for once it would be nice to have our resources used for the good of our industry.
I think Wal and the team have proved capable and true, they have put in a massive effort on the industries well being and would love my tiny piece of the illegally taken pie be used to get this all sorted, I have already spent it as it were.
This has really cheered me up almost worth being ripped off by a corrupt bunch of tossers.
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hi guys, WOW, i bet the board didn`t see that one coming, i wonder if they will put out another`February 2013 special issue` to let us know about it,cheers
PMSL.....Yeah wheres Peter Jackson and his cockeyed approach to broadcasting in the "info brief", LOL Robbo, funny as...stop the press...... we are totally wrong..... :-[
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hi guys/Wal, i know where and refund that i get will be going `The Federation fighting fund` the Federation could get some more important results if we all did it.
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The board wants how much for inforation that we have paid for them to use against us?
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This week they wrote to the Federation advising they wanted $664.20 for documents pertaining to the 2011 review of the Boards Disciplinary Process which the Federation had requested as an Official Information Act request.
To cap it all off they asked for $1,155.20 for the documents pertaining to the 2012 Fees Review that was gazetted in December.
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Anyone who is in New Zealand can request official information. New Zealand citizen’s overseas and corporate bodies with a place of business in New Zealand can also apply.
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Do you have to pay?
There may be a charge, but it must be a reasonable one.
• You should be told of the charge, or given an estimate, before the information is provided;
• Any charge will be related to the cost of the labour and materials involved in making the information available; and
• If you think the charge is unfair you can complain to the Ombudsman.
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cool, congrates to PGDF. you will have any refund i get.
whats the latest on brownie points needed ?
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Awesome effort to Wal and the team - wouldn't like to be in the Board's shoes. I'll be waiting by the computer all day tomorrow waiting for my Info Brief Surprise Edition to come out so they can tell me and my team how really sorry they are for ripping us all off for 18 months AFTER THEY KNEW IT WAS WRONG. And these guys sit in judgement on the trades? Shame, shame, shame on them - each and every one of them. As for the Minister that protects them with his Output Agreement - well shame on him too. Just what will it take before he loses faith in them and their leader Mr Bickers.
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PS Everyone I've talked to today about this newsletter and what it means to the trades reckons they would be happy for their share of the money to go to the PGDF to start a really strong fighting fund to get the Board into court. Then maybe they'll sit up and take notice. You know I'll bet they won't even apologise to industry for the systematic raping they have carried out. And while I'm at it - just how much sits with the Board and how much sits with their CEO and advisors. Where does the rot start and end?
As for the suggestion that you should have to pay the sums quoted for official information - that is ridiculous. My understanding of reasonable would be charging 20 cents a page for the photocopying. Somewhere what you have asked for should have been given to Board members as a white paper so to speak - surely it will all be computerised and in a folder marked Board papers for a particular meeting.
Considering they can't work out overcharging after 18 months I'm surprised they could get back to you with figures for how much the information would cost. Of course they could have outsourced the question and that is what the consultants cost... just saying...
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I have seen it all before with the charging Jax for photocopying, if they don't want you to get it, the price appears to go up proportionately to how much they don't want you to see it.
They got to go mate, no credability, corruption, arrogance and incompetence. I have just had one of my complaints up held, the one where uren lied to my customers and caused the collapse of my business, I have been offered $500.00 and an apology.
All the nepotism and lookin after cronies at the expense of my rights to a fair trial.....all protected by the very limiting policies that say you can't complain about anything they say or do and definitely not any thing to do with discipline, which is why they all act with impunity and no conscience.....
See below my reply to Max Pederson to the report......I will let you know what sum the Board think my home, business, reputation, stress, time with my kids and just being plain being shafted by a corrupt bunch of tools is worth.
Hi Max,
I am in receipt of the report from Helen Cull QC, I note that most of my very real and valid complaints are out side the scope of the biased and protective policies and procedures of the Board.
I would like to thank you Helen for your time and effort. I understand that your hands are tied and you have done all you can within the policies that the Board hide behind.
But I do feel it is against natural justice for the Board to ignore and to dismiss these complaints, complaints made because of the actions of certain people who appear to act with impunity……they do this because they can. The immoral bravado that is shown by these people is enabled by the very limited complaints polices. Just because a complaint falls outside of policy, it does not mean that what has been raised is ok or even legal; it is just plain wrong to act as they have, it is disgusting and despicable.
I will state again that the effects that these people had on my family is immense. I did nothing wrong, I even warned about what later happened 6 years before and not just once either. I was subjected to a very un-impartial kangaroo court over seen by the “impartial” investigators mate. I am now being punished to retrain by doing an unobtainable course, my licence renewal this year and my ability to provide for my family will be effected yet again, along with my stress levels. I have to do this course because of the ignorance of the Board of a British Standard; a standard that proves what I did was safe. It is irrelevant when you find out something is safe, it is safe. If even more proof is found at a later date that backs up all that me (and the occupier of the dwelling) said at the hearing. Then it just proves even further that what I stated was true, it only reaffirms my statement and diagrams. What proof does the Board have that what I did was wrong or unsafe…..except the NZ 5261 table which is contradictory and was co-authored by the “impartial” investigator. This shows yet again the involved vindictiveness and arrogance of the Board and its inability to admit any mistakes, which is why the policies are so misplaced and misused. The Scottish Board member on the panel of my hearing, a Mr Hardie, was the only other Certifying Gasfitter present at my hearing, if he was unaware of the British Standard, then that reflects on his credibility not mine. The fact the Board are enforcing the non-mandatory part two of NZ5261 is a contradiction in plain English, if nothing else.
In light of this I would now like to formally complain about the policies themselves, they are disproportionate in their protection, totally in favour of the Board and an affront to the rights of those they persecute and the NZ public. I find it absurd that you can not complain about any discipline actions or what the Board say or do, these are the very things that have the biggest effect on the people they pursue and most open to abuse of the power entrusted to them. I believe this area is where the Boards victims should have a way to address any abuses and have a means to redress any wrong doings. These policies are what give the Board the protection to persecute people and have very biased hearings run by a circle of people who put their connections and personal loyalties to certain industry groups before that of natural justice or even common decency.
I guess that this complaint will fall out side of policy; please can you direct me to the person that I can take this further.
If you are in any doubt about what you have cost me it is in the 100’s of 1000’s and I would ask that my apology is hand written with no spin and signed, please no electronic signatures and letters typed by a PA.
Yours Sincerely Paul Gee
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hi guys/Badger, read your post mate (I have been offered $500.00 and an apology) go for $500.000 that would be more like it,good luck, cheers
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hi guys/jax you say (I'll be waiting by the computer all day tomorrow waiting for my Info Brief Surprise Edition to come out so they can tell me and my team how really sorry they are for ripping us all off for 18 months AFTER THEY KNEW IT WAS WRONG) ,dont hold your breath Jax we still need you,cheers
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hi guys, once a person/organisation/govt/sports body act illigally they are on the slippery slide to HELL and will eventually be caught out, look what is happening around the world. Why do the N.Z. P.G.D.Board think that they are different? they have been caught out and now have been ordered to repay the money that they have illigally gained from overcharging hard working tradesmen, cheers
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P.S. i don`t think that we should be paying for next years licence untill we are disscounted the amount that the Ombudsman has said that we have overpaid,cheers again
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Actually Robbo, (I have given up holding my breath as my face was going a most unattractive shade of purple) - you might be on to something there.
My understanding is (and anyone out there who knows please correct me if I am wrong) - as long as you apply for your licence before 31 March then you could withhold that portion of your licensing costs and the Board must consider your application at their next Board meeting. While your application is being considered I think you are entitled to work legally - even if it extends beyond 1 April.
So you could write a cheque for the amount less, say $90 and apply for your licence.
Does anyone else out there know how this works? Am I interpreting it correctly?
Of course the PGDB may consider it and then still decide not to give you your licence if you don't pay the prescribed fee, but if lots of people do it then it will cause them some pain in the cashflow department and the workload department.
Badger - is the $500 becasue that is what the policy or law allow as the maximum they have to pay? It is a pittance no doubt.
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hi guys/Jax, it would not surprise me if the board appealed the decision just to give them time to rake in all original licence fees for the coming year,cheers
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that would definatly be their way of thinking Robbo,
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Yes Jax your right.... it is limited to $500, by policy. It is the policy that has to go, along with the present Board. The thing is, what got me offside with everyone was I was trying to stick to the rules and not let unqualified Muppet's put dangerous installs in, ironic I know. I am not an anarchist, we need an overseer, but a fair,transparent Board that acts with integrity, not the dodgy feckers we got now.
I think we should all have a policy of not paying the $90 OWED to us, but like you said still apply, it would be a show of hands on how unhappy we are with them taking money illegally, and then wasting it by fighting to keep their tax dodge of a charity and the means to keep receiving their ill gotten gains.
Perhaps they will need a trip to Melbourne to get over it......PMSL, its a very bad joke, their list of bullshit is never ending and growing by the day.....how much confidence do you have in them now minister?? Maurice said he'd sack him if he lost confidence in Bickers, on film, at the Napier meeting.....perhaps everyone will loose confidence in him if he don't!
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Hi Guys. They are using section 148 of the Act which allows them $500.00 of unauthorised expenditure each year. (not that they worry about it with other funds).
It would be the Act that would need to be altered to allow for compensation etc. Hit them up for free licensing fees for life.
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I wont hold my breath but anything coming back to me from overpayment will be going to the PGDF.
Well done aye.
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So Wal are you saying it is only the actual cash that the act restricts to $500 - and in fact Badger could ask for free licensing for life (of course providing he got all his brownie points :)).
Therein lies an opportunity.
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free licencing would be nice.....how did they manage to release funds for the trip to Melbourne? with partners apparently...