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Dear Minister,
With all due respect and humility I would ask you to comment on the attached report and my correspondence with Max Pederson and the Board as a whole. I have been subjected to a witch-hunt and cover up. I have been lied to and lied about. I have lost my business, home, reputation and time with my young family. All this for a situation that I had warned about 6 years before an explosion nearly killed someone. Its final out come of this witch-hunt is just one charge out of 44 substantiated, which if the Board had ears to hear, is cleared by means of a British Standard.
The Board was in receipt of a complaint about this explosion from the Labour Dept, authored by a Lance Windleburn. This complaint makes no mention of my work, and was stated to my lawyer also, and it says that I came forward of my own free will. In spite of this the Board went out of its way to pin this on me and make me a scapegoat.
This Dept of Labour complaint does though complain specifically about dodgy certificates. Minister, you can not get any more dodgy than a gas SAFETY certificate that is either not registered and/or has the gas leak test results section empty…..AT THE SITE OF A NEAR FATAL EXPLOSION. This is all known to the Board, with an attempt to make it acceptable in a 33 page report that took 4 months to write. It plays on semantics and wording, see attached. It seems they are of the opinion that as their role of overseeing certifying gas work is being wound down it is been placed in the too hard basket. I would, in light of this, remind them that it is their responsibility in relation to time, when this occurred they were in the position of responsibility. This is something that has been drummed in to me by the Board, it is relevant by date and time.
It is totally unbelievable that the Board are making excuses for faulty paper work/procedure associated with a situation at the site of a near fatality. The Board is well aware that a second certificate was issued and entered on to their website, but quite illogically they claim not to have received it ….which is impossible for it to then make it to their electronic register.
Of particular interest this second certificate has the GAS LEAK TEST section of the certificate empty on the certifiers, owners and electronic copy; I am unable to source the Board’s master copy as they claim not to have received it, ever. This said certificate certifies the most recent work carried out at the site of an explosion that nearly killed someone and has in any event wrecked two families’ lives, both mine and Ron Clark the owner of the chip-shop that exploded.
This is an endemic problem (denied by the Board) which is highlighted by a test batch of 150 gas certs that I requested, which had 11 missing the test results also. These “11” were part of a batch, stated by the Board, again not being able to locate….until I sent them photos of copies of the gas suppliers copy, they then magically located them. Is this minister the actions of an open and transparent group of people?
It has also been stated that another particular cert was filled out correctly, which is then upon inspection has the same test results section empty. This statement was made years before the explosion, when I had attempted to get this looked in to initially. I was deterred progressing any further by being told by the Board via my lawyer that there was over 1000 certs in my name and I could only get copies at $25.00 per cert, I still do not know what evidence that this number of a 1000 certs was made. The Board were well aware that I was still concerned by this situation after this because I phoned them to tell them I couldn’t afford it and a subsequent letter sent on my behalf by Nick Smith MP.
The Board appear to be OK with the fact that this person who, either didn’t register the work (if you take the Board’s very own version of events) or registered it and by all evidence available didn’t document the pressure test that was used to test the gas supply, if in fact he did test for leaks…..the Board state that IT IS NOT A REQUIRED FIELD ON A CERTIFICATE, this statement made on a job that nearly killed someone is incredulous. Testing for leaks is fundamental to gasfitting and any one who states other wise is totally out of touch with the trade.
We will never know WHICH VERSION IS TRUE, as the person responsible and his family (who were the office staff) were never questioned about it by the “impartial” investigator who incidentally had granted this man his full craftsman license after just one oral exam and was a member of the same industry groups, along with the chair of my hearing and several other Board members. In light of this Minister, are you still of the opinion that the best practice recommendations on impartiality by the NZ Law Commission are not applicable because we are too small a country?
Of note an extra hose was sold to the chip shop owner, because the hose that caused the explosion had ruptured previously and been replaced. This was due to the pipework, that I had initially installed much higher, was lowered. This lowering is evident in the photos that were withheld by the “IMPARTIAL” investigator and only came to light at my hearing upon a request made directly to the forensic expert, by my advocate Wal Gordon. The impartial investigator was in possession of these photos from very early on and would have been in possession of them while interviewing me and since. He was in all probability in possession of these photos while I was telling him that the pipe was altered. I maintained this view before seeing these photos, this lowering of the pipe made the hose stress against the floor and split twice, the second time causing an explosion. Replaced by someone who apparently was happy with the hose in such a stressful position as this person replaced it and left it as such…..we will never know who this is because the Board and its investigator hasn’t tried to find him, not even asking the person who sold him the hose, which shows a receipt for 3 hoses issued by Allgas.
I have also shown the Board a letter written by “Allgas” on their letter head, written in my name, to alter a certificate. This letter was written 3 months after I left Allgas and was acted on by the Board. Also there is writing on 3 master copies that is absent on the carbon copies, my bringing this to the Board’s attention has made them render me as being vexatious, they have done this in writing. There is far, far more and I will be happy to answer any questions and clarify anything that you feel requires it.
My question to you Minister is….Do you still have confidence in this Board and its actions? I have copied other people in to this email as I feel it is in the public’s best interest, as would be the reply.
We are well over due for a fair, open, transparent public enquiry; those that help cover it up are, in my opinion, morally as guilty as those that commit the offence. Please see below my correspondence to which as of today I have not received a reply, even though I openly call them corrupt, and attached the 33 page report.
Please Minister we need a public enquiry before we have another incident, this man responsible for this has worked for over a decade, his work is still out there. I don’t want to, and would take no pleasure, in being the witness at a coroner’s inquiry and getting to say I told you so….I would rather fix it before it happens.
Yours Sincerely Paul Gee
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Just curious is there an application where you can have "heating and ventilation" without a house to wrap it up in???
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Another open letter the right honourable minister
Thank you for your email addressed to the Hon Maurice Williamson. He will appreciate you taking the time to contact him.
All correspondence, including email, is entered into our mail tracking process. Although e-mail delivery is instant, the time required to respond to the high number received makes it impossible to provide an equally instant response from the Minister.
Mr Williamson will read your views but a response beyond this acknowledgement may not be sent.
Office of the Hon Maurice Williamson l MP Pakuranga l Minister for Building & Construction l Minister of Customs l Minister for Land Information I Minister of Statistics I Parliament Buildings Wellington l www.beehive.govt.nz
From: Paul Gee [mailto:gasnsolarservices@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Paul & Emma Gee
Sent: Wednesday, 27 March 2013 9:28 a.m.
To: maurice.williamson@national.org.nz
Subject: FW: Accountability
Dear Mr Williamson,
This is another open letter (see attached the one sent many months ago).
I have just read comments attributable to you reported in the Press, bullet points below, re-the terrible and gut wrenching CTV building situation.
· It has to be ... that someone is held to account," he said.
· But it would be "just ghastly" to move on without anyone being held to account.
· 'That building was built illegally, it didn't meet all the specs of the day, it didn't meet code."
Please can you explain why you seem to have no problem with accountability at an exploding chip shop that, very luckily, didn’t end in a death? A site of an explosion with no one to date held accountable, with the evidence pointing to substandard work covered by an incomplete gas safety certificate, lacking of all things gas leak test results. This gas certificate is denied having been received by the Board, and yet a copy is on the electronic register of the Board, this is amongst many other inaccuracies.
I do this solely to avoid another incident in my area; I will say it yet again my old bosses work is still out there. If the place that exploded which still, right up until today, has no one held accountable for, well if it had exploded one hour earlier it would have been surrounded by a lot of school kids on their way to school.
My old boss worked for about 15 years after being given his craftsman ticket with no apprenticeship served, being given his full qualification after just one oral exam, this building is 20 years old and I feel shows that it sometimes needs an extraordinary set of events to show weaknesses in the work and systems used. It is similar to gas, sometimes it takes an unusual set of events to make a catastrophe very real. The exploding chip shop was seven years old when it exploded.
I look forward to your clarification.
Paul Gee Plumbing & Gas Ltd
PO Box 249, Takaka 7142
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Read receipt first and open letter below..............why are tradesman accountable WHEN IT SUITS, I got screwed over for it first time around remember....but none of the issues raised in my hearing have got looked at........
Are engineers above reproach....I know we plumbers get treated like second class citizens on site, but this is going too far.........
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FYI....My submission to the select committee, below this is how any single one of you could be treated by these people if they stay where they are.
NO ONE AT ALL HELD ACCOUNTABLE AT THE SITE OF AN EXPLOSION OR THE POTENTIAL FRAUD THAT WAS HIGHLIGHTED BY MY CASE.....ALL IN THE KNOWLEDGE OF THE MINISTER AND THE BOARD......AND PEOPLE WONDER WHY I NUT OFF.........IT IS DISGUSTING........
Dear Select Committee,
1. Introduction
2. My name is Paul Gee, a certifying gasfitter and plumber from the Tasman/Nelson area. I am in full agreement with the Plumbers, Gasfitters and Drainlayers Federation’s submission, and only offer this personal submission under my own steam and banner to go toward showing how the Plumbers, Gasfitters and Drainlayers Board (PGDB) have spent the illegally gained funds, needlessly savaging my life and terrorising my wife in doing so.
3. I have lost my business and reputation, my home and time with my young family, all for a situation that I had tried to warn about for 6 years previously, before an explosion nearly killed someone, i.e. dodgy certs covering dodgy work. With no one held accountable for this. As this situation spans almost 10 years of my life and is hugely personal to me I am truly thankful for all understanding and consideration shown for this lengthy submission and I thank you in advance for this.
4. I believe the Board have made a scapegoat of me to hide their own short comings and in-action.
5. Concerns
6. My concerns are centred on the illegally funded past and current prosecution and discipline systems of the PGDB within the gasfitting industry and the apparent covering up by the PGDB of either a badly designed gas safety certification system and/or incompetence/malpractice administering this system.
7. I believe that the Board ignored conflicts of interest and acted in bad faith, with out duty of care and against natural justice; leading to an unfair and needless investigation and the resulting decision by the Board in respect to me. Please note that I strongly believe in industry regulation and the holding of “cowboys” to account within the industry, which was why I had tried to warn about all of this from the outset.
8. I believe they undertook a needless disciplinary action against me, utilising these illegally gained funds spending over $200,000.00 on my case. What has occurred to me has since been made available to the Building and Housing Minister.
9. In particular, my concerns are not just about the afore mentioned conflicts of interests that were ignored, but also the misrepresentation and withholding of evidence and the resulting decision of the Board, and in particular the way the investigation was carried out.
10. Background
11. I am a qualified gas service engineer in the United Kingdom, trained by British Gas in 1989. I was registered by the PGDB as a craftsman gasfitter on 15 February 1999.
12. I began working for a gas company in late February 2003 in Nelson. At the beginning of this employment, I was instructed by the manager to fill out the work sheets only and the office staff would fill out the gas certification certificate and I only had to sign them, then the office staff would file them. Note: The manger and office staff was a family and related, i.e. a husband (manager), wife (office manager), daughter (office girl) and son in law (limited licence gasfitter, who worked unsupervised most of the time).
13. After approximately five months of employment with this gas company, I became very concerned about how gasfitting work was being carried out and the possible safety implications of this apparent malpractice. I attempted to raise this concern verbally with the manager; however it was dismissed by him. Toward the end of the period of this employment I handed back certificates to the manager, refusing to sign them as they were unfinished or unsafe.
14. On 10 November 2003, I attended a meeting with the Manager. At this meeting, I submitted a written statement outlining my safety concerns; this written statement was later provided to the Board and appears in my Hearing’s Bundle (HB).
15. On 13 November 2003, I was issued with a written warning by the manager for how I had expressed my concerns about safety to his son in law, (HB). In response to this written warning I indicated I would resign as soon as was practicable.
16. On 14 November 2003, four books of non-transferable gas certificates were ordered, for the one and only time, by some one at the gas company. It was done in my name, without my knowledge, (HB).
17. On 19 November 2003, I gave two weeks notice and resigned from this gas company, (HB).
18. I later found out, after the explosion, that on the 4th March 2004, three months after I left, someone from this gas company, on this company’s letterhead, wrote a letter in my name to alter a gas certificate to the PGDB, which was apparently acted on, (HB).
19. I then began work as a subcontractor for a different gas company in December 2003 where I immediately became aware of improper use of gas certificates that were in my name, actually one of the certificates I had refused to sign because the job was unsafe/unfinished, (HB).
20. In response, I contacted the PGDB by telephone, which was when I became aware of the 4 books ordered in my name, and again in writing on 6 January 2004. In response, the PGDB replied to me, dismissing my complaint and providing what I believe are inconsistencies and incorrect facts. (HB)
21. A year later I came across yet another irregular certificate in my name, covering unsafe work. I contacted a lawyer, as the Board refused to talk to me without one, on 13 January 2005. (HB)
22. I also contacted my former employer, the gas company mentioned above, which had a new manager, on the 24 January 2005.
23. The outcome of my lawyer’s inquiry to the PGDB was there were over a 1000 certificates in my name and it would cost $25 per certificate to check. I could not afford this potential sum of $25,000 and told them so by phone. The letter from the Board’s lawyer had inconsistencies and incorrect facts. I had only worked at this gas company for some 10 months.
24. I approached a Member of Parliament on 24 May 2006 after hearing no further from the PGDB. A letter was written to the PGDB on 6 June 2006. No response was made to me. I followed up this letter by sending a fax to a member of the PGDB on 21 August 2006. Again, I had no response. I later contacted another Member of Parliament by email, outlining my concerns for health and safety. This was passed on to the Minister for Safety and Health at the time. This Minister replied indicating he would look into the matter; however I received no further contact. Most, if not all, of the proof of this correspondence is in the possession of the PGDB, (HB).
25. On 8 July 2009, the Board received a complaint from the Department of Labour, regarding a gas explosion at 136 Milton Street, Nelson. An “impartial” investigator was appointed according to section 40 of the Act.
26. I requested an impartiality hearing with PGDB, it was held on 22 February 2011 where I raised concerns about conflicts of interest. They were dismissed.
27. Disciplinary action was taken against me under section 42 of the Plumbers, Gasfitters and Drainlayers Act 1976 (“the Act”) as a result of the investigation. The matter was heard between 3 and 5 May 2011 by the Board. The decision was given in July 2011 where I was found guilty under section 42(1)(c) of the Act in relation to only one of the seven properties that were investigated by the “impartial” investigator.
28. Out of 44 charges laid by the Board, I was found guilty of only two, neither of which was at the site of the explosion that initiated the complaint by the Department of Labour. No one else as far as I am aware was questioned about the site of the explosion, whether as part of the initial investigation or since.
29. The Board required I undertake a course of instruction as an extra condition of re-licensing as a certified gasfitter for the 2013/2014 licensing year.
30. This “course of instruction” had to be custom made for me at my expense. I have recently carried out an “assessment”, rather than course of instruction. I passed with a 90% mark and was told by the assessor that I would be in the top 10% of the people he had ever assessed.
31. Of the “impartial” investigators initial audits of my work, none of his initial concerns made it to charges that later surfaced in a second audit. This second audit was ordered by him on the basis of these initial audits and “concerns”. A letter from the Board’s lawyer states that three years worth of my work was audited, but the “impartial” investigator only claims to have audited 10% of my work for that period.
32. On 2 October 2009, the then Acting Registrar of The Board sent letters to the owners of six properties where the PGDB alleged I had carried out gasfitting work and that were identified by the “impartial” investigator’s investigation as having compliance issues.
33. These letters, which covered each and every area that I had ever worked in for my own business, from the West Coast to Havelock of the top of the south island, with Nelson and Motueka in between, one or two letters per area. By far the most damaging was the one to Motueka High school, the only high school in what WAS my main centre of business, and my business disappeared not long after these letters. I wasn’t made aware of these letters until the Motueka High school contacted me.
34. These letters noted there was an issue with a number of gas certificates illegally sold affecting a number of homes from Northland to Waikato and the Bay of Plenty, and that the certificate pertaining to their address was one of these. I have never carried out work in these North Island areas and these letters caused me the loss of my business, distress and loss of reputation.
35. By far the worst event on a personal level was during the build up and preparation for my Hearing, the “impartial” investigator’s lawyer sent to my home, unmarked child sexual abuse case notes to prove his point on probabilities. As they were unmarked of their vile content, my long suffering wife read them and I came home to find her hysterical. At this time she was facing living in a caravan for the winter with her husband working away, minding our two young sons, as we were financially forced to sell our home. This situation that my wife faced later happened and I have had to work away for nearly two years since. I have told the present CEO of the Board about this, he has no problem with it and another PGDB member’s solution that he offered to me was “…had I thought of returning to the UK or going to Aussie”.
36. I filed a notice of appeal to the decision of the Board on 16 November 2011. The appeal was heard in the High Court on 5 March 2012 and the decision given on 14 March 2012. The focus of this appeal was on the finding I was guilty of an act or omission contrary to the integrity of the gasfitting trade. The appeal was dismissed.
37. On 22 June 2012, the Boards external assessor and QC released an opinion on eight complaints I raised. She concluded that under the Board’s Historical Complaints Resolution Policy, only one of my complaints fell within the scope of the Policy: that the letters sent by the Board’s Acting Registrar on 2 October 2009 did cause me a disadvantage. I have heard nothing since.
38. Impartiality
39. My claim is that the “impartial” investigator was not an impartial investigator as is required for natural justice. He is a member and fellow of the NZIGE and a member of IPENZ, GANZ and the Kennedy Trust and at the time my old boss was also a member of NZIGE and other gas groups.
40. In addition, I believe that the “impartial” investigator was the person who granted my old boss his full craftsman status, after just one oral exam and with no apprenticeship served.
41. The “impartial” investigator also was nominated by GANZ to co-author the NZ 5261, the standard that I had offered an alternative to in defending against my two founded charges. This is a conflict of interest that should not have been ignored. I tried to raise the issue at the impartiality hearing in February 2011, where my concerns were dismissed.
42. I believe that the table 16 of NZ 5261, which he refers to within this Standard and is particular to my charges, is contradictory and confusing. Table 16 had also been amended which gives the tradesman the impression that the table is not strict in its application, not to mention it is in the non-mandatory part two of the standard.
43. The present Chairman of the PGDB and a panel member of my hearing is also a member of IPENZ, of which NZIGE is an arm of that according to a press release from IPENZ – “NZIGE collaborates closely with IPENZ”. This same person released a press release just after my Hearing stating I lacked fundamental knowledge of my trade, this appeared in my local newspaper.
44. I also believe there was a conflict of interest between the “impartial” investigator and the Presiding Board Member at the disciplinary hearing. The “impartial” investigator and the Presiding Board Member have served together in numerous organisations, NZIGE, GANZ, and the Kennedy Trust, and have made numerous presentations together as a duo to the gas industry.
45. The Presiding Board Member was on the executive of GANZ, the nominating organisation for the “impartial” investigator to co-author the referenced standard NZ 5261.
46. The “impartial” investigator was the technical adviser to the Presiding Board Member at GANZ. I believe this would lead to the Presiding Board Member to put more weight in the “impartial” investigator’s opinion because of their personal relationship and their work on NZ 5261. They would both, in all probability, want the integrity of NZ 5261 to remain intact because of their involvement in developing it.
47. The “impartial” investigator was also heavily involved with the deregulation of the gas industry and a driving force behind self certification for gasfitting. In light of this I believe he would also have a vested interest in maintaining the integrity of this certification system he had helped create, which has some apparent serious flaws in its application and the PGDB’s administration of it, most if not all of this was raised at the impartiality hearing I had requested, but was dismissed.
48. Further, at the site of this explosion no one has been held accountable, although all copies of the last certificate issued for work carried out at this site of an explosion; lack any gas leak test entry which is a compulsory field on the now electronic website. This certificate is totally in my old manager’s name and was signed for a year after the initial installation and at least a year after my leaving the employment of the gas company mentioned above. The PGDB claim never to have received or registered this certificate, but an electronic version appears on the electronic register on their website. This electronic register also carries a disclaimer stating the inaccuracy of the register.
49. Unfair Investigation
50. I believe I was unfairly investigated, as were the charges brought against me regarding seven properties. Only two, out of 44 charges, regarding one property were upheld, which would be dismissed by a well used British Standard, if it was allowed.
51. As a result my business and reputation was damaged and my ability to earn an income suffered. I believe that the PGDB appointed investigator was not an impartial investigator and that serious evidence was misrepresented or ignored at the Hearing. I was presumed guilty, having to prove innocence and disadvantaged by not allowing me to submit further evidence, which would clear me of all wrong doing, for a situation I had tried to warn about for 6 years.
52. My appeal was dismissed because I could not, due to limiting PGDB policy, give any further evidence. The evidence I tried to adduce was a British Standard that would show what I had done was safe and a relevant alternative to the non-mandatory part two of the NZ 5261 standard that I was found guilty of contravening. Of note, the only other certifying gasfitter in the room at the hearing was on the panel for the PGDB, and he was British.
53. I also tried to adduce an email from another, co-author of NZ5261. This email said I could use a British Standard if it was relevant, and I believe it is. This would have left me completely innocent of any wrong-doing.
54. At the actual hearing I had offered other information and illustrated how I knew the fumes would behave on the appliance I had been later found guilty for installing and certifying. The owner of the same dwelling said he had no problems with it in the previous six years since installation, and it was the only obvious place to put the appliance in question. Even the “impartial” investigator also commented that if the fumes were not entering the building then I would have complied with Part one of NZ5261 which is mandatory, and so I would have done nothing wrong. All of this evidence was apparently ignored, with no further evidence put forward by the PGDB, other than the above mentioned “Table 16”, to go to show what I had done was dangerous, which I still believe it was not.
55. In light of this treatment, and it is very brief and incomplete and a pick of the worst, I would like to ask a question and make a suggestion to the Select Committee
56. My question is-
• Is the Committee comfortable for the PGDB to enforce over a 1000% increase in discipline levies in under a decade and then claim it illegally from tradesman, BUT THEN (and this is my main point and reason for my submission) to use this ill gotten money as a fund to persecute and disadvantage innocent, well meaning, registered trades-people, using this illegal discipline levy as a war chest to bring down any opponents within the industry, or anyone they have a grudge with? As is evidenced by my treatment. They openly boast of a 100% conviction rate.
57. My suggestion is-
• While you are being asked to amend this Act, please consider changing the Act so that the Board is a liable entity or at least open to more than just recommendations, which they routinely ignore. As it is now the Board is non-liable under the Act, and accordingly the PGDB apparently acts with scant regard and impunity The PGDB have done this even while hiding behind, and trying to maintain, the façade of a registered charity, spending as far as I am aware over $46,000.00 in appealing their de-registration as a charity, apparently using the same clause** that is limited to $500.00 when used in making a compensation payment to me because of the letters sent to my customers.
**The Part 148 of the 2006 Act enables the Board in any financial year, to expend for purposes not authorised by any act, a sum not amounting to more than $500.
58. I thank the Committee for your time. And ask with all due respect and humility are these the actions and the behaviour of an organisation that are moral or ethical? Are they the people best suited to lead our industry? Can you trust these people to have a blank cheque as it were, which is what will happen if this is bill is validated and acting with impunity as they are non liable for their actions.
59. There is a huge decline in the industry and training sector, of which I fear we are just seeing the tip of this huge iceberg, the future is bleak. The PGDB is still apparently acting in a corrupt, nepotistic and incompetent manner, continually acting against the best recommendations of the damming OAG report and in the face of the best practice recommendations of the NZ Law Commission, acting apparently in bad faith.
60. If you were in a position to, and are able to appoint a public enquiry, I will provide proof and substance to back my claims.
Yours Sincerely Paul Gee
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And I get 140 smites for raising my views you spineless jerks.........where's your comments then???
The thing is...... and it is very important.......they can't publically say why any of this happened they can only say it in their back rooms where they do all their deals.
ARSEHOLES.
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Your submission is excellent - well done Paul. Let's hope together they all make a difference.
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Thats a real nice job mate, just finished reading the whole thing. Broken down into digestable pieces and easy to follow.
Hope they read it and I hope it ultimately sees this evil empire that has been built on our money destroyed and re-built from the ground up.
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All over the world business's, organisations, corporations, investment companies, etc go insolvent because of incompetence and/or acting outside of the law.Its called a consequence of your actions.
Why doesn't this apply to these goons? they got 4 in house lawyers, massive funds and routinely use external lawyers none of which is available to the majority of the rest of us. Its worse to "make a mistake" with this amount of resources behind you. All paid for in the first place, by us!!!!!!
Being judged and rewarded or punished on our merits is a risk every single one of us run, in running a business, and most of us will abide by the law and act in good faith to avoid going under.
Why do I keep hearing about high level incompetence on huge salaries being bailed out by the public, most of us earning a fraction of the dicks who stuff it all up......its just so bloody wrong.
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Now have a look at the people who knows about this apparent incompetence and resulting cover up...now lets see who acts on this information......
If no one does act.......What does that say about the sort of society we live in?
Sent: Saturday, 30 March 2013 6:09 p.m.
To: 'Max Pedersen'; 'Kernuren@pgdb.co.nz'; 'alanbickers@xtra.co.nz'
Cc: 'Wal Gordon'; 'Allan Day'; 'Colleen Upton'; 'Lyndon Moffitt Building Ltd'; 'Jehan Casinader'; 'tao.ran.chen@gmail.com'; 'Maryan Street'; 'maurice.williamson@national.org.nz'; 'Mission Chambers'; 'andrew.burt@parliament.govt.nz'; 'admin1'; 'Andrew.McCaw@ombudsmen.parliament.nz'; 'onionbradgee'; 'Mark Cullen'; 'Amy Gulbransen'; 'Angela Angus'; 'brendan.horan@parliament.govt.nz'; 'bethan bridges'; 'Barry Forman'; 'b.english@ministers.govt.nz'; 'campbelllive@tv3.co.nz'; 'chris.auchinvole@parliament.govt.nz'; 'ceo@pgdb.co.nz'; Craig Hooper - Coolhead Productions Ltd; 'charlotte@pgdb.co.nz'; 'communications@pgdb.co.nz'; 'complaints@pgdb.co.nz'; 'cpd@pgdb.co.nz'; 'Charles Chauvel'; 'chiefreporter@nelsonmail.co.nz'; 'Corinne.Ambler@tvnz.co.nz'; 'Dennis.allen@xtra.co.nz'; 'david.cunliffe@parliament.govt.nz'; 'executive@transparency.org.nz'; 'exams@pgdb.co.nz'; 'enquiry@oag.govt.nz'; 'estherandmac@xtra.co.nz'; 'fjehan.casinader@tvnz.co.nz'; 'guardian.motueka@xtra.co.nz'; 'greenparty@greens.org.nz'; 'gascerts@pgdb.co.nz'; 'gareth.huges@parliament.govt.nz'; 'ian@news24seven.tv'; 'ianharris@slingshot.co.nz'; 'J Key (MIN)'; 'jacinda.arhern@parliament.govt.nz'; 'Julie Drury'; 'licensing@pgdb.co.nz'; 'Neal and Joan Gauntlett'; 'Nick 4 Nelson'; 'Nicola.White@oag.govt.nz'; 'Paul Luxton'; 'Paul Coombes'; 'Paul Stannard'; 'phil@goff.org.nz'; 'registrar@pgdb.co.nz'; 'Sabina Wick'; 'simonfowler09@hotmail.com'; 'sue.ineson@karoconsulting.co.nz'; 'teururoa.flavell@parliament.govt.nz'
Subject: Paul Gee
Dear Mr Pedersen, Mr Uren and Mr Bickers of the Plumber’s Gasfitter’s and Drainlayer’s Board,
Please can I get some sort of reply to my query about when I might receive my apology from Mr Uren? The apology that has been advised by the Boards own external assessor some 6 months ago, the apology that referred to the letters that disadvantaged me, and I believe ruined my business.
I have also added below my submission to the Select Committee that is being asked to make the Board’s unlawful actions legal for your information.
I will be complaining to the relevant industry organisations on the potential inappropriate behaviour of their members and will be putting in OIA requests to these organisations for information, to clarify the situation.
You have still not held anyone accountable for the explosion or the potential fraud and have ignored blatant conflicts of interest in my case. As I have tried on numerous occasions to get you to act on this and no one has made any effort, to my knowledge, to make any real enforcement of the rules you pontificate so publically about, I will not hold my breath for any action, but merely do this so as I can refer to this email and my select committee submission at a later date. I have copied in witnesses to witness my concern at your inaction and apparent cover up.
I truly believe that sunlight is the best disinfectant and I apologise to all those copied in for going on and on, but when you have had your life steamrolled for something that you had tried to warn about for 6 years, then you comfortably pass the “punishment” assessment with your arm in plaster and the one and only charge you get found guilty of is explained away by an alternative standard to the NON compulsory Par t two of the NZ 5261 regulation AND THEN NO ONE IS HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR THE EXPLOSION……. well it concerns me some what.
I believe the whole process I have been subjected to has actually given my warnings substance and the Board were wrong not to heed them.
I have a letter from the Right Honourable Maurice Williamson stating that it requires a high level of concern to warrant an enquiry; well I believe potentially covering up an explosion that nearly kills someone quite a high level of concern, especially when no one has been held accountable for it and I find this confusing in light of his recent comments about accountability.
To all those copied in please print this off and pass around for discussion including the open letters attached.
I welcome comments and questions from all and ask you all is this the type of country we want for our future, is it democracy at its best?
To the Right Honourable Politicians copied in I implore you not to create a non-liable monster with a history of meting out treatment such as mine and to others, financed with a blank cheque, it will not end well and it is beyond doubt a recipe for disaster. I beg you not to validate this bill and hold an enquiry in to this situation.
Yours Very Sincerely Paul Gee.
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Lets see the mettle and ethics of those that lead us........I'll keep you all posted of any responses and/or action.......
As I have said too many times this could have happened to anyone of you.......I was in the Master Plumbers, a past president of my local association, I have been proven by their bullshit to be beyond doubt very capable of doing good work and have installed gas with the best of intentions........but they decided to f**** me over.......so they did.
Good luck on running these clown's gauntlet and just hope and pray you don't get on the wrong side of them.......or you can grow a set and can band together and oust these Dick's and have real, transparent, open, honest trustworthy people running the industries overseer, so you can be assured that if you do a good job with the best of intentions you won't get screwed over on a whim. This will not happen if they stay.
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sent today to lots of ministers
Dear Ministers
I implore all those copied in to not vote this bill in, it is a morally wrong fee, funding an immoral and incompetent Board, there is a cover up of a near fatal explosion with the knowledge of the Right Honourable Maurice Williamson MP…..…..does any of this sit well with you all.
I ask you to remember what some of you said before about validation and how it was against the fundamentals of our democracy. It will allow an incompetent industry Board to carry on its same ill conceived path, with a blank cheque.
This Board have been found wanting in nearly all aspects of its performance and results.
Open letter to the Right Honourable Minister Maurice Williamson, Please see two other open letters attached.
Dear Mr Williamson,
I have heard a recent radio broadcast attributed to you, you are quoted as saying below in blue-
Other industries pay similar fees to protect them against cowboys. Please could you list the industries, and provide a figure on the sum charged, not including subsidised fees.
“Because we’ve had a number of pretty ghastly incidents including a pizza parlour exploding because the gasfitting in it was grossly unsatisfactory.” Is this the same exploding chip shop that included a pizza oven, that according to the PGDB and as evidenced by it exploding, had grossly unsatisfactory work done to it and was not certified properly? With both gasfitters involved in its installation being licensed? One of these licensed gasfitters being myself (I was found not guilty of any wrong doing but yet it has still cost me very dearly in any case) and the other licensed gasfitter being my old boss (member of NZIGE a collaborating organisation with IPENZ and numerous gas groups). My old boss who was given his licence after just one oral exam, but was never questioned about the explosion by the PGDB appointed “impartial” investigator (this same investigator actually holding the one oral exam that empowered my old boss with his licence some years before, also a Fellow of NZIGE and member of IPENZ and numerous gas groups) and this same old boss was responsible for the last work to be carried out at the site of the explosion. My old boss also totally responsible for the dodgy cert mentioned above, ironically covering the PIZZA OVEN and lacking the test results for any gas leak testing….AT THE SITE OF AN EXPLOSION, which is I agree a ghastly incident, its been pretty ghastly for my family too. My old boss not even questioned about it. And still to this day no one has been held accountable, even though over $200 000.00 of disciplinary fees were spent on the investigation with no result. At a hearing presided over by the “impartial” investigator’s colleague in numerous gas groups.
Is it this “pizza parlour” to which you refer? I have searched the internet and can find no other explosions that involve a pizza oven. If this is not the pizza parlour that you refer to, please can you tell me which incident you are referring to and the action taken?
“This is about public safety” I think it should be too, which is why I warned about my concerns SIX years before the explosion, but it appears nothing has been done then nor now. Please correct me if I am wrong.
You talk about fairness and the need of accountability in recent interviews, and yet the chairman of the PGDB is a highly ranked IPENZ member, an organisation that according to your last interview can’t even expel its own members from IPENZ, even members who may be responsible for the design of a building that killed 115 people, let alone hold them accountable. But this past president and Fellow of IPENZ can hold court over us dog owning, Ute driving tradesman, and also be part of a very very partial kangaroo court and illegally funded dysfunctional Board disciplinary system that I was subjected to.
Would you think that these high ranking members, actually both Fellows of closely collaborating organisations, such as IPENZ and NZIGE (with these Fellows also having a common interest such as an industry Board) could they know each other?
I am yet to hear of a tradesman being responsible for 115 deaths, and yet we are open to a discipline procedure, do you think this fair? We have only to hook up a toilet to the wrong waste pipe and can be raked over the coals. Please can you explain the difference to me?
I was implicated in an explosion, implicated by a potential un-investigated fraud. A fraud that I had tried to warn about for 6 years before the explosion and was definitely not of my doing. This still goes un-investigated; it is luckily it didn’t result in a death. But I lost everything because of a biased and incompetent PGDB discipline system. But apparently an engineer can be a liar in his level of qualification claimed, designing a building that results in 115 deaths and they can’t even get him to leave the IPENZ membership, lucky he don’t own a dog and a Ute he would probably be lynched or in prison.
Please explain the difference in a tradesman and an engineer in regards to responsibility and accountability.
It appears on the face of it, that there is one rule for the so called “professionals” (even under qualified ones that lie about their level of qualification) and their fellow memberships…… and another for us Ute driving dog owners, is this true? Does it depend on who you know not what you know?
Why is this being covered up?? Why are you, apparently, allowing this to be covered up?? You have known about this for many months now.
I look forward to your clarification to this and to my other open letters. Thank you for your time and consideration in these matters.
Paul Gee Plumbing & Gas Ltd
PO Box 249, Takaka 7142
0274 33 33 50 / 03 525 9889
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A friend of mine can get a response from the Rt Hon Maurice, see below
Lyndon
I was very surprised at your email and the claims you make in it.
I have not taken any action against Mr Gee – and therefore have no “hole” to get myself out of.
I have no powers of direction of the PG&D Board.
Any action they take against any individual is there decision, but can of course be contested in a court, or their actions subjected to judicial review.
I really don’t think it advisable I step outside of the law and take over the process of deciding who’s acted appropriately and who hasn’t.
I’m sure you would want the judicial process to dependent on “Sly, Lying, Caniving politicians”
Kind regards
Maurice Williamson
So not even the minister responsible for the Board can direct them, and as for your last remark minister, I think it is a bit of a Freudian slip perhaps......... :-[
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I have no powers of direction of the PG&D Board.
So who does?? if not the Minister. ::)
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I have no powers of direction of the PG&D Board.
So who does?? if not the Minister. ::)
Hi guys
Its a way of saying I only appoint them but I can't control them so its not my problem :(
What a wanker!!!!!
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I totally agree Aboutgas.........
Its a worry that apparently no one tells them what to do, they are non liable for their actions, they can ignore the OAG, Ombudsman, regulation review committee, charities commission AND the law of the land and the only time Maurice will jump in is to change the law to make their unlawful actions legal with no better argument then it is ok to take money illegally if it so they can stay solvent...........
And coming soon to a court case near you....a yearly audit for no reason other reason than they want to (remember they have lost the income from the certs and will need a new income), they don't even tell you they are coming, you only find out after they find something and they are going you, where they are more than happy to stitch you up, ignore evidence and get their mates to oversee the hearing and to investigate. With the same threat of not issuing a license if you don't comply as for the illegal CPD points.
Remember why they stopped using the bi-annual audits for gas....people purposely failing gasfitters so they could pocket the re-audit fee and then when they had to stop using them the next set of people started using it as a tool to put their opposition out of business.
The future is very very bleak for our industry......
And by the look of recent admissions the Board have the full support of the Master Plumbers.........
We have to get behind the Federation guys, increase membership and get vocal.....now or never
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One thing you must be aware of with these annual audits that you don't find out about until their is a problem.....and I know this from experience....
Once the compliant is made you HAVE to see the process through......if you plead guilty you only pay a fine with no costs.....but if you stick up for your self they go you like you wouldn't believe.....
A thought for you.....do you think the number of investigations and prosecutions will increase or decrease.......NOW THAT THEY ARE TRYING TO JUSTIFY A DISAPLINARY LEVI AND THEY HAVE LOST THE INCOME OF THE GASCERTS.
If, as I believe they will, go up in number then the odds of them going each and everyone of you increases.
Now how do you feel about running the gauntlet of dealing with these corrupt f****ers......get ready to kiss arse or get torn a new one......you can act now or put up with this bullshit later.
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...........and as the number of disciplinary hearings and investigations climb....it will justify an increase in the levy.....it is a blank cheque to take out the opposition.
The only choice you will have is chance fighting it and getting hit for a fine AND costs......or pleading guilty and loosing your reputation and a fine....with all your shortcomings plastered over the local newspaper whether you plead guilty or not.
I was found not guilt for anything in the explosion and only one out of 44 charges (explained away by the British Standard)
Mr Bickers went and publically stated in my local paper that I didn't know the fundamentals of my trade.
I was framed for something I had warned about for 6 years previously...I have never had a compliant about my work, price yes, but never my work....and at my punishment assessment I was told by the assessor that I would be in the ten 10% of fitters he had ever assessed......
So all you people out there who think I just won't make any mistakes.......good luck with that.
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Badger, you are right , and something needs to be done
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I reckon every one should go postal.....you know by posting lots of letters :P
Think on this....who will it leave at the end to reap the excessive hourly rates....as the costs climb they will charge more....
Good luck on sucking up to them and trying your hardest not to tread on any toes....because the only ones safe are the ones who are at the top at the time, probably about 8 to 10 people....
Get ready to enjoy the taste of ass.....or stand up for your self NOW....you will NOT have the publicity or platform for a long long time....and if they survive they will have learnt heaps and be even stronger.....you will only have your selves to blame...........
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Apparently according to Maurice, he said in Parliament there was an explosion in Nelson at a Pizza Hut.......do any one know of such a thing happening??
I live here and haven't heard of one.....the only one I have heard of is the one that no one has been held accountable for and was done by my ex boss....surely he could be that uninformed ::)
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hi guys, yes badger i think he refered to an unlicenced gasfitter, was that boss of yours licenced? cheers
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Yes Robbo, My old boss was granted his license after one oral exam and no apprenticeship served....granted by the very same Mr Hammond who the Board appointed to investigate the explosion (supposedly to investigate impartially hahaha). Both members of NZIGE as well as Mr Parker the presiding chair at my disciplinary too....funny that ::)
Strangely enough Mr Hammond didn't go after my old boss...the bloke that he empowered, that was not time served. Then he withheld evidence and notes, amended the charges to fit two weeks out from the hearing, etc etc.
Didn't even question him about the explosion, even though he was the last person to work there and didn't register the cert for the pizza oven, but all the carbon copies of the cert show no leak test was recorded.
Guess what the compliant was about from the Dept of Labour.......dodgy certs and specifically mentions the pizza oven cert.......and not to mention I had spent the 6 previous years warning about my old boss......
Who do you think the Board should have gone after...... ::)
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And this is the treatment each and every one of you can expect.......good luck running their gauntlet and/or arse kissing....
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All with the knowledge of the minister, who in his own words can't direct them.......welcome to the world of the Board.....
Where exactly do you want your new arse torn...........
Do something about it now, you will not have an opportunity like this for a very long time, if ever again
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This is the complaint that the Board based their whole persecution of me on.
You will se that-
I came forward voluntarily
I voiced concerns about John Darley, as I am on record for doing for 6 years before the explosion
The gas cert number 345138 mentioned toward the end is the pizza oven cert, that was installed one year after I left, was the most recent work done there, and had the gas leak test results empty (on all carbon and electronic copies available).
I proved at the hearing that the cylinder station had changed, the pizza oven was added a year later and the with held photos (with held by Hammond) proved that the bayonets I had fitted had been lowered some 3 to 400 mm....by the holes in the walls!!!!!!!!!
Now....Look at the date of the complaint 8th July 2009, I have a email from a Board lawyer stating that when the chip shop owner's lawyer requested ALL copies of certs 9 DAYS after the explosion (explosion on 9th April, some THREE MONTHS before) .......
The Board told his lawyer that THE PIZZA OVEN CERT # 345138 was never received by the Board.....BUT there is a copy on the Boards website ???
WHO DO YOU THINK THE BOARD SHOULD HAVE GONE AFTER? Darnley wasn't even questioned about it ???
And now Maurice is talking about a pizza hut exploding in Nelson of all places!!!!!!!!!!!!
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sent to day to every single minister
Dear Ministers,
I witnessed Mr Maurice Williams MP tirade on the Parliament channel last night and would like to make some comments on this Parliamentary speech made on behalf of this Bill to be amended, to allow the illegal gathering of nearly 2 million dollars from the plumbing and related trades.
I believe Mr Maurice Williams’ statement that….there are no sections available to the Board to prosecute unlicensed plumbers and gasfitters, I believe that 121 to 132 of the Plumbers Gasfitters and Drainlayers Act 2006, are available to the Board for these purposes, which covers offences and Infringement notices which are not used by the Board appointed by the Minister. A clear documented process for dealing with non registered people. I believe the amendment is more for the reason to get them out of trouble for a problem that they have known about for sometime.
His accusations that this legislation was passed by the Labour Government but he apparently forgot to mention National opposed a lot of the Bill at the time, so were aware of the problems and as soon as they got into Government didn’t apparently do anything to change it but simply implemented the Act in 2010, 4 years after the period he was referring to.
His mention of an explosion in a Nelson Pizza Hut, is very confusing and I think maybe unfounded. The only Pizza cooking related explosion I know of in my area of Nelson, is the one mentioned in the attached documents and emails below specifically certificate 345138 for a Pizza oven. My side of the story is available in my submission to the select committee on the Parliamentary website, under the name Paul Gee. I rang the local pizza hut in Nelson and the person who answered the phone said he knew nothing about an explosion, the only one he had heard of was , ironically, the one in Milton Street.
I ask all ministers to ask themselves if they want to get behind a bill in such a rushed manner, National ministers especially as you will be the ones remembered for implementing it. Please think of it in light of this reluctance to go after the real culprit in this only pizza cooking related explosion available to everyone I know in the industry, which the Board tried to be frame me for. All this is now known to the Minister Maurice Williamson. This man, my ex boss John Darnley, was also licensed, all be it by way of one oral exam carried out by the very same man that the Board saw fit to appoint as an impartial investigator, against my formal protests.
Who do you think the investigator should have gone after? I had complained about John Darnley for 6 years before, specifically for dodgy certs covering dodgy work. The last work was done by him at the site of this explosion and by the Boards own admission, see below, they knew he didn’t register the cert 345138 just 8 to 9 days after the explosion. John Darnley wasn’t even questioned about it.
The attached compliant, the whole basis for going after me, specifically mentions this cert 345138 and its discrepancies, it is totally in my old bosses name and all carbon and electronic copies show the GAS LEAK TEST RESULTS are empty at the site of an EXPLOSION. I have a 33 page report that goes toward dismissing the importance of this fundamental part of checking for gas leaks, issued by the Board
Mr Williamson dismissing the Federation as a small malcontent faction in the industry is not my experience. Every one I meet express concern but are too scared to raise their concerns because they believe they will be railroaded, and you can’t blame them when you know of my treatment. People are leaving the industry and sometimes the country hand over fist.
Mr Williamson appears to only listen to the Master Plumbers, who are part of the Board, having a 50% representation on the Board of the available places for the trades. Against it appears of the best recommendations for impartiality by the NZ Law Commission see below from a document available on http://www.lawcom.govt.nz/sites/default/files/publications/2008/01/Publication_131_385_IP6_Tribunals_in_NZ.pdf -
5.36 A difficulty arises here in that occupational regulatory and disciplinary bodies are
often funded by the relevant industry, which may adversely affect perceptions of
their independence. However, this funding is necessary. We suggest that it may be
acceptable for these bodies to be funded through mechanisms such as licensing fees
and industry levies provided that they are independent from industry associations
and other purely industry groups, and that other mechanisms are in place to
safeguard their independence. For example, in its recent review of the Real Estate
Agents Act 1976, the Ministry of Justice suggested that the body responsible for
licensing and disciplinary matters ought to be “independent from the industry,”
meaning that the Real Estate Institute of New Zealand should not be able to exercise
control over it. This body would be constituted as a separate body that would be
required to report annually to Parliament. Finally, it was seen as important for
public perceptions of independence that the Minister of Justice should appoint
members, rather than the industry appointing the members.337 We note that these
recommendations arose in a context of public concern about the real estate industry.
However, we suggest that the underlying principles reflect a wider trend towards
greater independence for occupational bodies, and that the recommendations can
be considered as an example of best practice in any event.
I have some questions……
How did the exact information as the carbon copies for cert 345138 get on to the electronic register to enable an electronic cert to be made and with a matching cert number? If the Board never received the master copy, the electronic copy in all probability being on the site before the explosion.
Do you really want such a Board to be given even more power, remember every one at the Board in any power knew of it all then (or should have) and definitely do by now, but are in no hurry to investigate. Even the Minister Maurice Williamson says as things are he has no control over the direction of the Board. He is here for the Health and Safety for the Public, but no one has been held accountable for this near fatal explosion.
Do you want to be remembered by history for further empowering such apparent incompetence or even worse corruption?
Out of all the people involved in my situation, who do you think has the Health and safety of the public first and foremost in their mind?
Are you happy for an innocent person to be framed for something he tried to warn about, losing his home, business and reputation, having to work away from his family for the two years since the hearing? Just to protect an incompetent Board and the real culprit.
Yours Sincerely Paul Gee, please see below 2 emails from the Boards lawyer.
From: Melanie Phillips [mailto:melanie@pgdb.co.nz]
Sent: Wednesday, 11 May 2011 4:13 p.m.
To: Paul & Emma Gee
Cc: Wal Gordon
Subject: RE: Paul Gee
Hi Paul
Please see attached Belinda’s filenote of her request to John Darnley for a copy of certificate 345138. This occurred after she was contacted by lawyers acting for the owner on 17 April 2009 requesting copies of all gas certificates relating to 136 Milton Street.
Also attached is a copy of the certificate received which, as you will see, is of quite poor quality.
Please let me know if you need any more information.
Regards
Mel
From: Melanie Phillips[mailto:melanie@pgdb.co.nz]
Sent: Wednesday, 11 May 2011 3:22p.m.
To: Paul & Emma Gee; WalGordon
Subject: RE: Paul Gee
Hi Paul
I have just gone back through the fileand can confirm that the Board never received a pink copy of certificate345138. The only copy the Board has is a photocopy of the certifierscopy, which you produced as exhibit PG007 together with a copy of the gassuppliers copy.
I see notes from Belinda Greer on thefile that the Board copy of certificate 345138 was received after the explosionin 2009, I think from the Department of Labour.
I’m sorry I can’t help youfurther.
Regards
Mel
Paul Gee Plumbing & Gas Ltd
PO Box 249, Takaka 7142
0274 33 33 50 / 03 525 9889
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WHO THINKS WE ARE OVER DUE FOR A PUBLIC INQUIREY????
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Doesn't it look just a teeny bit dodgy, just this...... alone forget all the conflicts of interest and with held notes and photos.....but just the fact that John Darnley hasn't even been questioned nor his family who run the office........
IT COULD BE ANY ONE OF YOU, I WAS THE PRESIDENT OF MY ASSOCIATIONFOR THE MASTER PLUMBERS.
Just make sure you are good at kissing arse and don't tell anyone what you really think, even if it for the best.....
GOOD LUCK WALKING ON EGGSHELLS....... AROUND BULLIES......
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Need to walk around with a fricken camera on our heads with HD quality video and a parabolic mic with high noise gain filter to catch every piece of audio ever muttered to you by anyone. Then store it all on a secure server for retrieval when needed. Even then the Board will still make up any old shit.
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So we have a situation where Maurice makes a statement about an explosion involving shoddy work in Nelson, in a Pizza Hut, I have told him numerous times about my situation, please see open letters below, the only mention of pizza is the oven fitted one year after the initial install, an initial install that was altered as evidenced by the withheld photos at my hearing (just one thing amongst a very comprehensive body of evidence that I have that this was a witch-hunt).
Now when you read this below in blue....
Thanks for your email regarding this. We definitely did NOT have any gas explosion ever in Nelson Pizza Hut or any of our other stores either.
The comments made by Mr Williamson are obviously incorect. We have fully compliant maintenance and safety programmes in all our stores. You can assure all your friends who ask that we are a safe place to eat.
Regards
David Hill
Regional Operstions Manager Pizza Hut
I have read receipts for my open letters. You got to ask how on earth could Maurice get to this "Pizza Hut" statement in Parliament....how ill informed is he? how much does he listen? did he make it up?
It is blatant what happened to me, it was a fit up.....I was basically framed....no one has been held accountable.
How would you feel if you lost all that I had and then hear shit like this, I believe a level headed person could be forgiven for thinking that not only are the Board covering this up, but a minister is prepared to make untrue statements to cover it up too......
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And this is the same minister that wants to make illegal actions legal, so the Board can take money from us all ......
Any of this sound fair.......
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Like I have said too many times...........you couldn't make this shit up.............
Williamson had pizza on mind
TRACY NEAL
Last updated 13:00 24/04/2013
Relevant offers
Building and Construction Minister Maurice Williamson's attempt to correct omitted wording in an act created by the former Labour Government has led to him having to correct his own gaffe.
He blamed it on his penchant for Pizza Hut - the first place that came to mind while speaking in Parliament, and needing an example of the importance of public safety.
"Everybody thought the Plumbers, Gasfitters and Drainlayers Board had the right to go after cowboys. There was an explosion in the Pizza Hut in Nelson that nearly killed people. It was appalling work," Mr Williamson said during the second reading of the Plumbers, Gasfitters, and Drainlayers Amendment Bill.
It was news to Pizza Hut that one of its stores blew up.
An explosion happened in 2009 at the Milton St fish and chip shop, which destroyed the shop and seriously injured the owner at the time, and led to charges against a gasfitter and his former employer.
Pizza Hut has now sought an apology and a correction to Parliament's records.
General manager Arif Khan told the Nelson Mail that Pizza Hut was incorrectly named in Parliament as the site of an explosion. As a result, it had been contacted by concerned members of the public.
The company has asked for the information in Hansard, Parliament's written record of what is said in the House, to be corrected.
Mr Williamson went on to say he hoped the Labour Opposition was in favour of public safety, and that his aim was to fix up the former Labour Government's act of 2006 - because it forgot to put in the wording about non-licensed practitioners.
Mr Williamson said naming Pizza Hut was a mistake, and he had apologised, but because it was the only pizza his family ever ordered, it was on his mind at the time.
"My kids keep the share price of it up," he said. "It's like Xerox or Hoover - it's just a brand that came to mind."
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AND WHAT EXPLOSION MADE IT COME TO MIND MINISTER???
Was it the one that no one has been held responsible for, after spending $220 000.00, was it the total sham hearing that ruined my business? With the LICENSED person who all the evidence pointed to....wasn't even asked about it?
Was it that explosion Minister??????
But its all ok though..... he supports gays and John Key thinks he is funny.
Unbelievable.....where's my bananas.....I have a republic to run......
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Sent today, I wonder if I will get a reply this time.....nah I won't....
Dear Mr Williamson,
Please can you explain what explosion in Nelson brought to mind the brand “Pizza Hut”? And how that would fit into context in your tirade in Parliament.
Please see my comments on the Plumber’s forum under “An open letter to Maurice Williamson”, I have sent you 3 open letters and not received a reply.
Best Regards Paul Gee
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these f wits just dont get it aye?!?
we want them to go after unlicensed, non registered persons and people who knowingly employ them but it is the way in which it is funded that is the problem
one of two things are going to happen here - either our industry falls in line with other comparable sectors - OR - all other sectors have our system and such costs implemented upon them if this bullshit goes through
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all other sectors have our system and such costs implemented upon them if this bullshit goes through
Sadly Integrated, I think the later will happen, they started with the gasfitters about 10 years ago, probably the smallest sector of trades and construction, it has been coming a long time and so much invested in it that it HAS to go through for them.
Tell all the people you know on site that this could happen to anyone of them.
Imagine the next "leaky building" fiasco if the builder signs it off and has done his CPD on flashings and wall claddings, but the "professional" says do it or I'll find another builder. I saw old school builders tell the architects, with a "vision", that it wouldn't work, they were told do it or I'll get another to do it.
The thing is, as far as I am aware, not one of the architects, council inspectors or engineers were blamed for the leaky homes or even the building that killed 115 people in CHCH, according to Maurice they can't even kick them out of IPENZ, they won't let this happen again.....it will be the man with the dog driving a ute that pays for it next time, the schmuck who signs it off, earning much less than the professionals and taking ALL the responsibility.
You will sign it off because if you don't you can't work as it is with the licensing, if you don't have a license you can't work. What happens if you miss something.....anyone you know who's 100% right 100% of the time, last carpenter who was they nailed to a cross and started a religion.
And even if you do a good job and act with good intentions as I did, you'll loose everything.....nice people aren't they.
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Ironic thing is mate I am a stickler for the regs, I was warning about my old boss for 6 years, I want them too to go after cowboys....but they choose who to go after, its sown up for them. What's it going to be like in 10 years time, when they have taken out all the opposition.
If you read what Maurice states in Parliament, but you know that the only known explosion in Nelson was in all probability caused by a licensed gasfitter, who was given his ticket after one oral exam, who owned the firm that did ALL the work there and the last cert done for the job shows no test results for bloody leaks, and in the Board's own words, he never registered the PIZZA OVEN cert with them (which is bullshit because its on their web site register)......and THEN he wasn't even questioned about the chip shop.
What sort of discipline system is Maurice condoning?
And just by co-incidence this Pizza cooking related untruth he tells, if it was accepted.....helps promote his agenda AND helps cover this situation up.
Then just by yet another apparent coincidence ....he raves about an issue that, just about anyone would know, that it would divert the attention away from the untruth, to the point of being asked to go to America.
How about staying here in NZ Maurice and fixing this dire situation....basically do your job Maurice before becoming a gay icon.
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Hi guys,
Hey Badger you’re a legend, what a great line.
Anyone you know who's 100% right 100% of the time, last carpenter who was they nailed to a cross and started a religion?…
This was in the ch-ch Press when leaky buildings was being discussed have a look, see if they `hit the nail on the head`cheers
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nice cartoon , but they missed a couple , BRANZ. BIA . HARDIES , THE PEOPLE WHO INTRODUCED THE PRODUCT . The list could go on , but the punch line is correct , the builder ends up with the blame .
Like so many I have very little faith in our regulatory system
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Its just so wrong to blame the guy following designs and drawings all given the once over by the "clever" people....
See below in blue.....sent to every single Politian that I have an email for.......
FYI…….I believe either the Minister is very ill informed and out of touch with his portfolio or perhaps something more sinister is going on.
I can’t get Mr Williamson to answer me on this issue, so I have forwards to you all.
I believe there is a cover up of a very dire situation that I have paid heavily for; please can some one look in to this from the Government.
Please see below for email sent to Mr Williamson earlier today, thank you for your time.
Best Regards Paul Gee,
Paul Gee Plumbing & Gas Ltd
PO Box 249 Takaka
Golden Bay
Tasman 7142
Mobile: 0274 33 33 50
A/H: 03 525 9889
Email: plumbngas@gmail.com
Dear Mr Williamson
Please can you explain what explosion in Nelson brought to mind the brand “Pizza Hut”? And how that would fit into context in your tirade in Parliament.
Please see my comments on the Plumber’s forum under “An open letter to Maurice Williamson”, I have sent you 3 open letters and not received a reply.
Best Regards Paul Gee
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hi guys, (nice cartoon , but they missed a couple) Peasea, the paper was only 6 pages,cheers
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How concerned is Maurice with safety? Will he demand that someone be held accountable for a near fatal explosion, hopefully not relying on an untruth, that just so happens to promote his agenda and covers this bullshit up.....wrong, so very wrong.
So flip flop has read it(see below), but will I get a response? might take a while because he is going to America for a bit .....instead of staying in NZ and fixing his portfolio......
Thank you for your email addressed to the Hon Maurice Williamson. He will appreciate you taking the time to contact him.
All correspondence, including email, is entered into our mail tracking process. Although e-mail delivery is instant, the time required to respond to the high number received makes it impossible to provide an equally instant response from the Minister.
Mr Williamson will read your views but a response beyond this acknowledgement may not be sent.
Office of the Hon Maurice Williamson l MP Pakuranga l Minister for Building & Construction l Minister of Customs l Minister for Land Information I Minister of Statistics I Parliament Buildings Wellington l www.beehive.govt.nz
From: Paul Gee [mailto:gasnsolarservices@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Paul & Emma Gee
Sent: Thursday, 25 April 2013 8:46 a.m.
To: maurice.williamson@national.org.nz
Subject: Hypocrisy
Dear Mr Williamson,
Please can you explain what explosion in Nelson brought to mind the brand “Pizza Hut”? And how that would fit into context in your tirade in Parliament.
Please see my comments on the Plumber’s forum under “An open letter to Maurice Williamson”, I have sent you 3 open letters and not received a reply.
Best Regards Paul Gee,
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If you have a look at his tirade in Parliament about this plumbers bill to make the illegal actions of the Board legal......in the light of there never being an explosion in any Pizza Hut in any area in NZ.
The only pizza cooking related explosion known, is for the one that ruined my business.
The pizza oven being installed a year after I left the company that carried out ALL the work there, all my work done on the site altered by in all probability my old boss who didn't register this pizza oven cert for this latest work, all carbon copies have the test results empty......but even though this is mentioned in the original compliant by the Dept of Labour......even the pizza oven cert by number is mentioned.......no one thought to ask my old boss what his involvement in all this was.........and still to this day.......
So, do you think Maurice had made an honest mistake in mentioning the appalling work done in Pizza Hut.......he's read all my open letters ::)
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hi guys/Badger, i rekon he files most of his correspondence into the` Rubbish Bin`cheers
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Robbo mate, he is welcome to and it looks like he does.....but it needs to be out in the open, in public forum and then he can file it where the sun don't shine.
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Does anyone know when Maurice is going on Ellen?
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You have to admire someone who has the mettle to stand by his opinions and be unwavering in his convictions.......Maurice on the other hand.........
Superstar Williamson voted against civil unions
By: Newstalk ZB staff | Latest News | Monday April 22 2013 16:12
Maurice Williamson, the National Cabinet Minister and MP for Pakuranga being held up as a gay icon for his speech supporting gay marriage, voted against civil unions eight years ago.
Newstalk ZB political editor Barry Soper says Mr Williamson took no part in the debates on civil unions, but voted against them anyway.
"Now he's in demand internationally for his light-hearted speech about same-sex marriage, which has gone viral, even being invited to appear on Ellen DeGeneres' television talk show in the United States."
In his four minute speech, Maurice Williamson said he could not understand why anyone would be opposed to gay marriage.
"It simply allows two people who are in love, to have that love recognised by way of marriage."
The jandle strikes again....
Apparently he doesn't want to dance in Ellen....perhaps he could rap or even some hip hop.... flip flop
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The MP for summer footwear's reply to my open letters.
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And my reply.......
Dear Maurice,
I am in receipt of your letter attached. I can see you are not prepared to look at the Board’s actions and potential corruption. My open letters are not about matters that have been “dealt with by the Board”, it is more in matters that are not dealt with and ignored by the Board.
I will attempt not to contact you any more, just as I will refrain from making tea in a tea pot made of chocolate.
The Board are your charge, they have been shown to be wanting in every way……..if not you, who does the industry rely on to make these people accountable?
Pusillanimity……weak spirited, showing a contemptible lack of boldness and resolve.
Best Regards Paul Gee,
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I think it is a real worry if the minister responsible for appointing the Board receives the open letters on this thread, but opts out of even looking into it..........
When it suits, he says its not appropriate to get involved......but when it is to rip us tradesman off by taking illegal money off us, then making it legal.......
Well he's in..... in up to the top of his big gay rainbow boots in Parliament, changing the Act so the Board can up their fees even more....we are already paying much much more of all the trades now....and they want more....more fees...... and more power.....just look at the annual audit clause for relicensing being applied for....but its ok, they will consult with us before it is brought in......hahahahahahahahahaha ::).
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I doubt even with a public enquiry that anything will change anyway.
It will be interesting to see the changes to health and safety with the independant enquiry into Pike River now out.
One would hope that some sensible well thought out recommendations will be made, we shall see i wont be holding my breath thats for sure.
Working in the rain and mud today hand digging trenches, good honest work thats for sure.
Time for tea i think.
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Yes Enn I have learnt not to hold my breath.
So what CPD did you do, to do a job most, if not all these office Walla's that tell us we are incompetent wouldn't do.... even if they could?
Face it guys our trades are being stolen from us....a job that was once judged by serving your time and learning off the older guys at the yard and your success being judged on the level of work/service you provided.....to now having to renew a license every year, with conditions of that renewal like illegal CPD and coming soon to a life near you...an annual audit...before they give you a license.....which they can fail you for at will and then go you for working without a license in the court system.
Protecting their mates and ruining their opposition.....
I am all for cowboys being pushed out of our industry....but it needs to be blindly done and fairly with transparency...with no victimising innocent people.
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hi guys, quote from badger: (illegal CPD and coming soon to a life near you...an annual audit...before they give you a license) if this comes in and i get audited i will not do it and never renew my licence again,i become a Cowboy,cheers
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So apparently Maurice is now not going to be mayor in Auckland or go on the Ellen show....not like him to just talk about doing all sorts of great things..................then not doing anything.....turns out just to be all talk no action...................... very unlike him. ::)
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Hi guys. Pardon me for interrupting. This is absolutely horrifying. I'm so sorry Badger. Your family must be going through hell.
Have you thought of taking it to Fair Go? Sounds like something they would love to get their teeth into. You need to get the public informed and up in arms about the situation. After all, they should have an interest in not getting blown up huh? (Who needs Al Quaeda when there are dodgy gas fitters littering the countryside?) I once had to study post graduate sociology for my sins >:( and the most useful thing I got out of it was the study of power. I found it very useful in my job, because I didn't have any of my own. Raising awareness in the right quarters was the way to go. In your case, that means the public. And Fair Go would be a good start.
It's certainly put my own little problem into proportion! Best of luck.
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Thank you Corylus, your not interupting, the more the merrier, it seems that some of it isn't to the pallet of most in the media, but things might change if enough of the public are aware of the corruption.
Mine is, sadly just one story, I know of too many, from the far north to Te Anau......
It is why all our hourly rates are so high, because of the compliance costs, not enough of it reaches my kids and wife....then you have to deal with the corruption on top of it.
Please feel free to spread it around, some times if a member of the public raises an issue, independently, then the media might take it up.
I'm all good, my wife is my rock and we do ok, she's one special lady.
Tell you what if you can get it on fair go, I'll come over to Blenheim and have a look at your system for free....but the tea and cakes are non negotiable mind ;)
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Keep any eye out on Campbell Live over the next little while, my contacts tell me that a story has been filmed and is being edited. A general story on the plight of plumbers, gasfitters and drainlayers. Hopefully it will be aired very soon.
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As always Badger, you managed to make me laugh. Hugs to your wife. She obviously keeps you strong. I have no idea how to get Fair Go energised but I'll give it a try. I was thinking of getting them onto my problem but this is much more important.
I've been telling all sorts of people about this website, which has introduced me into a different world. It's almost worth having the problem in the first place. My husbands extramping club-now cycling group all fetch up at a winery (for coffee) twice a week and I'll start awareness raising there. They all know about my solar problems - its an ongoing saga and that installer, who knows not the concept of goodwill I fear, has karma creeping up on him. Talking of which, will someone please explain the karma thing on this web site?
Stay strong. This must not happen. PS I don't think "taking a look"a t this problem would achieve much and it's long way to come for afternoon tea! Bring your wife though and we'll have a gas. :D
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Good on ya Corylus........I have just applauded you, which is how the karma thingy works.....if you like someone's comment you can applaud, if you don't then you can smite them.....its a way of leaving feed back.
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Wow! So this is what it feels like to be karmalised!
OK It's all done and dusted. Whether Fair Go will take it up or not remains to be seen. Hard to see how they could resist. This stuff reads like a bad TV series huh? We'll just have to hope that justice prevails in the last chapter and the Good Guy wins.
Fingers crossed.
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Thank you for your time. Fingers crossed. :D
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You know Badger, through all of this at least you can hold your head high. You've been honest and transparent. Look at these MP's now, running for cover, showing themselves for the lying scum that some of them are. The ones that aren't white wash the others so that they can still get their way. Dunne has definitely fall below the standards that I as a taxpaying NZer expect. What do I expect you say - well I expect those that are elected to represent me to to be honest and truthful. If you think something needs leaking to the press, then at least stand up and be counted. Be honest and back yourself. Then there's John Key downplaying it becasue if Dunne goes he may not get his raft of legislation through. It's like watching a Punch and Judy show play out. Bring on Wal and his new political party - at least we will understand what they are saying.
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Hi guys, yes Jax when these people in powerful positions rely on `lying/cheating/back stabbing ` and the list goes on, and make a good living out of it but make strict rules and regulations for the rank and file members of society, how do they expect life to carry on in a law abiding way? Maybe that is why we see so much dissention in the world today, wars/riots/murders/criminal activity that is running wild. Unfortunately for these `lying scum` that you mention there is another group of people `the media` who are equally well paid to find the truth and expose them, cheers
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The thing is guys your forgetting they are called right honourable.....so they must be.
I am no anarchist nor am I just a disgruntled tradie....... all I ask........ is, that an easily understood, clear and obvious rule book is applied to all..... in a transparent, open and honest way, but above all fairly and in the best interest of the public at large, with no cronyism or bias.
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hi badger, it aint going to happen, refer to the two previous posts,cheers
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I would also like lotto, a nice boat to go fishing in and world peace, you got to dream mate....or all you've done is slept the whole time ;).
The thing is if the public knew why they had to pay such high costs for plumbing, and that those costs were there because of a greedy and incompetent few....the public would react.....then the Politian's might listen.
Got to go, I am just off to give my pigs hang gliding lessons.
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Hi guys/badger, I agree with you but you say :(if the public knew why they had to pay such high costs for plumbing) and the answer is: they would do it themselves or employ a cowboy, it is the age old problem caused by: as you say (a greedy and incompetent few). Unfortunately these are the greedy and incompetent few that make the rules to suit their agendas, even when the laws that they make are challenged they then change them to suit the outcome that they want. This is the typical human behavior shown by people in positions of power. Until humans evolve to a new level of equality and fairness this will always happen but that may take a long time, cheers
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Robbo, can i say that in my experience it dosn't matter to some how cheap a price can appear to us it will be far to expensive ,
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You'll always have the ones who would take a packed lunch to a café and ask for a glass of water to wash it down,
But if the public realised the massive cost imposed on us, which is ultimately passed on to the customer...well I don't think they would be pleased......
Especially when you point out the cost(which is passed on) of maintaining the tax dodge at an expense of $48 000, paying for all the lawyers who advised them on the Regulation Revue Committee and appeals, Select Committee, the Ombudsman and Office of the Auditor General, the 6 figure salaries for the permanent staff, corruption, cronyism and sheer incompetence, changing laws to suit, lies and stitching people up......they ain't going to be happy little bunnies.
They even f****ed up the gas cert register, its got a bloody disclaimer on it for Christ sake.
They say they are here for the publics health and safety......Bullshit they are....they ignore dangerous jobs and the dodgy buggers doing those dodgy jobs(when it suits them or their mates, corrupt as you like)
I think they pay $145 000.....per year, lease for 9 years......man they could have bought/built a good one for that.......and have something to show for it afterwards....the only thing they will have to remember the building that they use now will be all the newsletters and photos...no building.
Its easy to blow money when it ain't coming out of your own pocket. Lovely people, real good upstanding leaders...... ::)
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hi guys/craftsman, totally agree that is why D.I.Y. will never stop and qualified guys should not be charged for the policing of these people, it`s a scam to extract money from honest trades people,cheers
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Watch this.........
www.3news.co.nz/CampbellLive ... then click `The politics of Plumbing`.....for the "in the frame" comment
Then see my recent letter to Maurice, below.......as I don't get replies from the rainbow dancer I thought I would share with you all instead.....
Hi Maurice,
So now you know how it feels to be put in the frame by The Board (as was I), I have it on good authority that when the Board were contacted they directed Campbell live to you.
You must be asking yourself the question about loyalty and integrity, The Plumber’s Federation have been shown to be loyal to the public and the truth and have the integrity of the backing of the law…….
What has the Board shown for the last ten years?
Bit of advise, when you sack the Board, please don’t replace them from the same organisations and groups that has been used for the last decade, to say you must because of the lack of available competent people (because of a small population), is an insult to the other 5 million people we share these fantastic Islands with.
Best Regards Paul Gee,
You see Maurice I was actually framed by a bunch of corrupt cronies for something I didn't do, I even warned it might happen for 6 years before it did happen.....not just put in the frame.....
So your not seeing Rainbows about this then......some might want to watch the don't see stars.....
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So apparently this "man" (very loose use of the term) Maurice Williams tries to stick up for blokes who knock their wives about??? paid up blokes apparently who chip in to his party......but he won't get involved in our situation.....retrospectively changes a law to shaft us, and then tells untruths in Parliament about an explosion.
Mates with Bickers who left because of "personal" reasons.....
I smell a rodent.......a big giant fat rodent.....
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So he couldn't step in when I am getting framed and made a scapegoat for an explosion that nearly killed someone (with still no one held accountable) .....but if you pay money in to his party and slap your wife about.....he might help.
What a nice guy.
The grape vine says he might be mates with certain Board members and secretariat....hmmm.....corruption always bubbles to the top like scum.
......but he is still an MP on a huge wage and nice BMW taxis and perks, what CPfeckinD do these "leaders" have to do?
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come on "guests" leave a comment
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Williamson said he was "shattered" and "gutted" and his family was in "tatters" after a "pretty gut-wrenching 24 hours or so for my family and my staff".
Harden up Maurice...........try 5 years and I did nothing wrong. You only done 24 hours and deserve it....
My family had to live in a caravan for a whole winter after loosing our home, business and reputation.......it must be so hard for you on your wage and perks......not seeing rainbows mate?
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Hopefully his life takes a turn for the drain and he goes down it haha. Paybacks a b****!! Maybe he will celebrate his downfall with some synthetic cannabis before they are removed from sale haha. Meanwhile the guys like us with ute, cell phone and dog carry on....
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So now we have John Banks found guilty of an offence that he could do two years for and they mention Maurice Williamson in the case............
........remind me...... who brought in the retrospectively altered law under urgency and who had the swing vote....
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So guys this has over 9000 views how does that pan out? obviously not 9000 people, but do you clock up a view every time you look at it, or is it people? just curious?
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That is a mighty number of views. Plumber might be able to shed some light on how the number of "views" work - but that number is getting up to a fair percentage of the entire plumbing, gasfitting and drainlaying industry numbers.
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Remember these open letters to Uncle "flip flop" Maurice.....now remember he "resigned" because he tried to "help" a wife beater and mother-in-law beater, now he apparently tries to jump ship from his own party....
And this is the goon who legalised under urgency the illegal taking of 2 million dollars off us to fund a non tax paying charity (the Board) who can now tax US.....where is that dealing with unreasonable people policy again? (this bullshit still stands remember)
So this is the calibre of the people who deal with us....that's fair and reasonable aye....
Make sure you pay for your licences this year good people.
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Where is that public inquiry?
Apparently this sort of shit is ok if it happens after a certain amount of time....it seems to have a use by date....
I wonder if that applies for a tradesman just trying to earn enough to feed his kids? No it does not they will screw you over years after the work is installed....please see all my other posts on that one.
Fairness isn't something these people understand.
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And this is the same uncle Maurice who said in Parliament that a pizza hut had exploded in Nelson and had to rescind it when it was shown to be an untruth, the hansard minutes are very telling when it is seen in context.....he was talking about the pizza cert mentioned in my case....I phoned the pizza hut people and asked them how many explosions they had had....he resinded it soon after....
So are you happy to be governed by these people?
Where is their CPD paid for out of their pocket?
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hi guys, yeah Badger and they have got another lawyer to strengthen their stand, cheers