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I wonder if this will benefit HJ Coopers or disadvantage Rinnai and Visa versa.. Overall will this drive the pricing up?
Rinnai Announces Acquisition with HJ Cooper
The Managing Director of Rinnai New Zealand, Ray Ferner, today announced Rinnai’s purchase of HJ Cooper Ltd, a New Zealand manufacturer and distributor of electric hot water systems and solar technology.
Ray says HJ Cooper Ltd has carved out an enviable position in the electric hot water cylinder market with a great range of innovative electric hot water solutions.
“The HJ Cooper brand is recognised by merchants and plumbers alike, and by combining with Rinnai’s own expertise in gas continuous flow hot water systems, Rinnai will be able to offer solutions for all hot water needs,” says Ray.
Ivan Ramsey, the current Managing Director of HJ Cooper Ltd has taken a position on the Rinnai executive team and will be responsible for the integration of the hot water businesses and the continued development of hot water solutions in the New Zealand market
Rinnai’s National Sales Manager Gavin Brown will take on overall responsibility for sales and distribution relationships for the wider hot water product range under the acquisition.
“We see the new partnership with HJ Cooper as an excellent opportunity to combine the complimentary products of both companies and deliver new and compelling products to the market. We are sure that this is the best way forward to benefit both the installers and consumers,” says Ray.
The combined operations will improve field coverage for both sales teams and the electric hot water cylinder manufacturing will be consolidated into the new Rinnai factory at Airport Oaks Auckland.
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Two good companies.
Should be good in my view . :)
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the price on the cylinders will most certinaly rise....looking at rinnai's prices they aint exactly cheap...i hope they dont rise but think they will.\
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I agree, I think any investments result in necessary return and the only way to achieve that is through the product itself. Unless of course the margins are that great to begin with. I suppose time will tell, lets hope for some good specials instead of price increases. ::)
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It must be to be able to meet Rheems head on in the market. Rinnai products will always sell well - they simply have very little competition in the marketplace, and as a rule they do perform very well if they are maintained properly. Their market share in the gas continuous flow market must be very high - so much that they risk losing the "brand' Infinity. We get plenty of calls to fix Infinities, but when you get there they are Bosch, Rheem, Paloma's etc - customers simply call them all Infinities.
I'd be willing to bet HJ Cooper cylinders will increase in price as Rinnai overlay their overheads on it. Will be an interesting mix... guess we wait and see what happens.
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I wonder if Rinnai will fix the parts of the HWC design that don't comply with G12/AS1?
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hi guys/TS, what patrs are they,cheers
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hi guys/TS, TS, what parts are they, (spelt parts wrong) i would like to know,cheers
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TS could you please clarfiy what parts of there cylinders dont comply please as i am installing 34 of there 50lt cylinders in a boarding house atm and am conserned i am using the wrong product....
cheers thunderhead
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we are not allowed to install them due to the location of the tpr (not in the top 20%??) pretty sure this is what TS may be eluding to...
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thats what i was commenting to my employeer about the other day that the placement of the TPRV looks very low for the cylinder...but would still like to hear from TS i know hes active yet he refuses to state what he has found wrong with these cylinders and i would love to know so i can pass it on to my boss.
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hi guys, i sent Rinnai some of the posts for their advice, they indicated that they would answer the queries on this forum in due course,cheers
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Sorry, forgot to recheck this topic. Yes its the TPR location. G12/AS1 and NZS 4606, or 4607, can't remember which one, requires the TPR to be in the top 20% andno more than 150mm down from the top of the vessel. I haven't seen many of them in my area but other inspectors have raised it around the country.
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hi guys/TS, whats the betting on the regulation being changed! In my experience they never go off,the cold water expansion relieves first and always,cheers
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Not meant to be a criticism robbo but your experience doesn't go far enough if thats the case. I've seen plenty and in my role as an inspector I see issues more regularly now especially with solar and solid fuels systems. The rules have been in place for over 20 years now and been through numerous changes without this aspect being changed. To get rid of the requirement you'd need to prove whyt it isn't an issue.
If it is too far down the vessel then is capable of holding water in excess of 99 degrees in the top portion which doesn't set off the TPR valve lower down, remember statification from your training? The CWEV operates by pressure not temp so you can get excessive temperature without excessive pressure if things go wrong meaning the CWEV won't operate before the TPR.
When you go to investigate a HWC discharging steam into a room you'll know what I mean. I've seen a number of over temperature issues and a couple of ruptures and the results of one HWC explosion. Believe me its not an area we want to lower standards.
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hi guys/TS, i totaly agree, also heat will produce pressure which will lead to expansion, sure the hwcyl will be very hot but should be able to cope untill the problem is fixed. As for solar i believe that there should be a TPR on the panel, in fact when i installed my own system i put one on it and it did operate occasionally,cheers
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Thanks for the reply TS good info to know.
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and talking of TPRV being set off we were called to an emergency job where the gas boiler unit thermostat had failed to fail to safe and had pumped out about 500litres + of boiling water and steam out the poor little 20mm TPRVon a 300litre cylinder before anyone stopped it...when we got there the tundish line had almost melted away such was the ferosity of the discharge it was clipped every 600mm and in between each clip the pvc had sagged at least 200mm i wish i had taken photos now but at the time that was the last thing i was thinking about...subsquently talking to one of the body corp residents no checks had been done on the unit in almost 5 years...of course we told them to get servicing done each year of course we got no complaints as they could see what the result was of lack of servicing...also such was the pressure build up it blew a 40mm copper croxed fitting off but i must say the installer had brazed too close to the crox and had annealed the pipe somewhat...but still blowing a big crox off like that takes some doing!.
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Thinking about this TPR placement. While it may be lower than 150mm from the top of the cylinder casing how is it positioned in relation to the actual steel cylinder inside the casing? There is a hell of alot of insulation in a modern cylinder.
A 340ltr Rinnai cylinder actually has a cylinder casing volume of about 550 ltrs. Would be good to get the actual dimensions or any one cut one to bits?
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one way to overcome the problem would be to fit a brass tee at the outlet of cylinder and screw the tpr into the top of the tee , rmc had this arrangement by memory on the freeloader cylinders
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don't they have a pipe that rises inside the cylinder? so the actual connection is lower than the physical entry to the cylinder