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Author Topic: Former Registrar on the front page of the Dominion Post today  (Read 7387 times)

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Offline Jaxcat

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Former Registrar on the front page of the Dominion Post today
« on: November 12, 2010, 07:46:08 AM »
If you get the opportunity grab a copy of the Dominion Post - front page item on Phil Routhon's employment hearing.  Makes for interesting reading - the place sounds like it was rotten through and through - which will be no surprise to most practitioners.  What interests me is how much this whole exercise is going to cost practitioners.  Remember it is the practitioners who FULLY fund the Board's activities.  They have at least one lawyer appearing for them, plus various Board members (who undoubtedly will be being paid expenses etc from the Board funds).  This is before any sort of payout is made.  Kiss goodbye thousands - and watch out for licence fee increases next year as they recoup what they've spent.  I hope that Minister Williamson reads the Dominion and decides that the PGDB do not deliver value for money and would be better as an adjunct to the Department of Building and Housing where they can be buried and never heard from again.


Linkback: https://www.plumbers.nz/pgdb-new-zealand-plumbing-gasfitting-and-drainlaying-board/30/former-registrar-on-the-front-page-of-the-dominion-post-today/535/
Have you learned lessons only of those who admired you, and were tender with you, and stood aside for you?  Have you not learned great lessons from those who braced themselves against you, and disputed the passage with you?  (Walt Whitman 1819-1891)  American Poet

Offline robbo

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Re: Former Registrar on the front page of the Dominion Post today
« Reply #1 on: November 12, 2010, 08:55:50 AM »
hi guys/jax, yes front page news in the ch-ch press too. We all know that all those dodgy gas jobs were found to be fine apart from paper work errors, a loophole made possible by the board. The fish/chip shop mentioned in Nelson (i personally saw it) was caused by an explosion when gas leaking from a 9kg cylinder connected to whatever by whoever(not gasfitter)reached the freezer motor, the motor switched itself on and bang,it was completely demolished, remember 9kg installations were not considered gasfitting at that stage.
Here is the article in case anyone dose not get to read the news paper....... Dodgy gas fittings 'could kill'
SHANE COWLISHAW - The Dominion Post
Last updated 05:00 12/11/2010Relevant offers
Hundreds of faulty gas installations across the country could explode and kill someone, the former chief executive of a Government-appointed board claims. Philip Routhan, who was sacked from his role with the Plumbers, Gasfitters and Drainlayers Board last year, made the claim at an Employment Relations Authority meeting yesterday. Mr Routhan is before the authority fighting to get his job back. He alleged he was asked to lie to Building and Construction Minister Maurice Williamson about safety problems at the request of board chairwoman Hazel Armstrong, which she denied. Mr Routhan said he discovered a large number of gas certificates, which must be returned to the board by a certified gasfitter after work is done, were being returned with serious irregularities and were not being followed up. According to his written evidence, in one case a gasfitter had requested 572 certificates, but an investigation showed only 290 were returned. Forty-four installations were found to have been put in by a person without a licence, with 33 determined to be "high risk". Six months after becoming aware of the problem, Mr Routhan received a complaint about a gas explosion in a fish and chip shop in Nelson, where the roof had lifted and the front window and rear wall had been blown out. After investigations, more problems were discovered. A third investigation into another gasfitter revealed 113 illegal installations. Mr Routhan told the hearing he was making the information public because he was certain someone would be killed. "Somebody is going to die because of this, and I make this statement clearly in public today: somebody is going to get killed because of this." Mr Routhan also claimed Ms Armstrong asked him not to tell Mr Williamson when he had briefed her about the problems. He said she knew what questions Mr Williamson was going to ask, one of which was when the board had known about the issue, and asked him "not to drop me in the sh*t". Mr Routhan said he was uncomfortable with lying to a Crown minister, but Mr Williamson did not ask the question. Ms Armstrong admitted making the request but said it was taken out of context. She said she had only been told in passing on the street and had not realised the seriousness of the situation. "It was not intended to mislead the minister or withhold accurate information from the minister." The board fired Mr Routhan last year after he took more than 4000 documents from the board office. He said the papers included 761 gas certificates dating from 2005 that proved his claim. But board lawyer Geoff Davenport put it to Mr Routhan that he had taken the documents for his own purposes, rather than public interest. He had taken personal staff files that were unnecessary for his suggested purpose. The board also argued Mr Routhan had been abusive to staff. A spokesman for the board said an independent report on the allegations confirmed there was a climate of fear under Mr Routhan. Mr Routhan assured the Auditor-General's Office during its investigation that a process to check gas certificates was in place but none was found, he said.

Offline peasea

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Re: Former Registrar on the front page of the Dominion Post today
« Reply #2 on: November 12, 2010, 10:05:47 AM »
If Routhan wins this case , and I think we all know he will be pretty thorough with his defence , the question is who will be paying ,I would say it will be expensive when all the legal costs from both sides is added up plus witnesses etc etc , The OAG report was obviously an attempt to discredit Routhan and will be part of the case against him ,at least we did not fund that report .(or did we)

It will be interesting    , might be a good year to to let our licences lapse incase they have a levy on all of us, then the shit will hit the fan 

Offline robbo

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Re: Former Registrar on the front page of the Dominion Post today
« Reply #3 on: November 12, 2010, 10:36:44 AM »
hi guys,i think that our ex-leader is "making the information public" in order to drum up some sympathy but i believe he is a no win situation, he has admitted to lying to the minister, well politicians have to leave parliment for that, cheers

Offline Jaxcat

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Re: Former Registrar on the front page of the Dominion Post today
« Reply #4 on: November 12, 2010, 10:42:40 AM »
, The OAG report was obviously an attempt to discredit Routhan and will be part of the case against him ,at least we did not fund that report .(or did we)


The OAG report was an "Attempt"?  I'd say it signed, sealed and delivered Routhan and the Board.  It is a damning report - and it should have made the Minister sit up and take notice.  It will become the weapon of choice in the ongoing battle with the Board.   On it's own it is toothless, practitioners need to quote it and use it in all their correspondence to politicians and the Board.  Do not let them forget the utter mess they have made and the lawlessness with which they have operated on a number of issues.  They are scrambling to write policies to cover their backsides, but Routhan ran the ship that has been so roundly criticised by the Auditor General in her report.  I am more interested in what files he removed.  Perhaps practitioners should write to the Board and ask if any information in their file was removed from the PGDB offices and if so what has been done about it.

Offline robbo

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Re: Former Registrar on the front page of the Dominion Post today
« Reply #5 on: November 12, 2010, 12:02:48 PM »
hi guys, I am wondering if this statement could be applied to the our industry via the pgdboard,...
Bleak economic future predicted.NewstalkZB | 10:47am Fri 12 Nov 2010 An economic sustainability conference at Parliament has heard predictions of doom this morning. Visiting environmentalist and scientist, Dr David Suzuki, has given the keynote address at the conference organised by the Greens. Dr Suzuki says we must shift from our current economic paradigm (standard) as its leading us toward extinction. He says it's so fundamentally flawed that, however well meaning we are, if we don't toss the system out, or radically modify it, we will be led down a suicidal path, cheers

Offline robbo

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Re: Former Registrar on the front page of the Dominion Post today
« Reply #6 on: November 12, 2010, 02:10:25 PM »
hi guys,.....Sacked CEO scaremongering - ERA toldBy Mary Longmore 11:47 AM Friday Nov 12, 2010Claims that hundreds of potentially fatal gas installations may have occurred around the country are merely "scaremongering" by a sacked chief executive fighting to regain his job, says the association representing certified gasfitters.Sacked chief executive of the Plumbers, Gasfitters and Drainlayers Board Philip Routhan told the Employment Relations Authority (ERA) yesterday that he feared someone would be killed because of uncertified and illegal gas installations dating back to 2005.He also accused board chair Hazel Armstrong of asking him to deceive Building Minister Maurice Williamson over the problem last year - a statement she "completely and utterly" rejected today.Master Plumbers chief executive Fiona Gavriel said while there had been a problem with a single gasfitter and lack of checks by the PGD board, a working group had quickly responded and dealt with the issue last year."What is very surprising is that Mr Routhan raises this when in fact he was, of course, CEO at the time," she said.Mr Routhan said a single gasfitter bought nearly 600 certificates last year when there were no systems in place at the board to ensure the work had been safely carried out. While this was true, Ms Gavriel said a working group made up of the PDG board, Master Plumbers and gas suppliers found just three per cent - 16 cases - were found to be non-compliant and were remedied."This issue, from our perspective, has been dealt with."She said although there were nearly 200 certificates still missing, investigations established they were not likely to have been used.Ms Gavriel said since Mr Routhan left, the board had tightened its checks, tracking the sale of certificates and limiting the number issued.She said the board's communication with the industry had improved since the "not popular" Mr Routhan left, and "practitioners would be concerned to see the clock roll back"."What is of concern, is that this issue is now being raised and we would hate to think that it is scaremongering, because this particular issue around this one gasfitter has been dealt with, from our perspective."She said people would be anxious reading about Mr Routhan's claims, but in fact it was a very safe industry with two regulating bodies and few incidents.Mr Routhan also told the ERA that when he briefed PGD chair Ms Armstrong about the problems last year ahead of a meeting with Mr Williamson, she told him "not to drop me in the sh**".Ms Armstrong said today she "completely and utterly refutes" the allegations, and attacked Mr Routhan for lying to the Auditor General over the checking process and creating a climate of "fear, intimidation and bullying" at the board during his reign as chief executive, which ended last December when he was accused of taking thousands of documents from the board offices.He told the ERA yesterday the documents proved his claims that 572 certificates had been requested by an uncertified gasfitter, but only 290 returned. Another 44 installations had been made by an uncertified person, including 33 deemed "high risk."The gasfitter was investigated by police for signing the safety certificates then selling them to a group of unqualified tradespeople who carried out work in Auckland and Northland. Police did not lay charges, blaming a loophole in the PDG board's processes.cheers

Offline Jaxcat

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Re: Former Registrar on the front page of the Dominion Post today
« Reply #7 on: November 12, 2010, 02:14:02 PM »
 :P it keeps getting better and better.  Bet there are a few people looking like this :o and a few practitioners feeling like this  ;D

Offline aboutgas

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Re: Former Registrar on the front page of the Dominion Post today
« Reply #8 on: November 13, 2010, 10:09:37 PM »
Hi guys check out the follow up story on page A11 of the dominion post sataday 13/11/10 "gasfitters reject claims of posibly lethal workmanship".
"sacked boss just scaremongering"

Claims that hundreds of potentaly fatle gas installations may have occured around the contry are merely "scaremongering" by sacked chief executive fighting to retain his job, says the assotiation representing certified gasfitters.
Phillip Routhan sacked chief blah blah.
Master Plumbers CEO Fiona Gavriel said that although there had been a problem with a single gasfitter and a lack of checks by the PDGB a working group had quickly responded and dealt with the issue last year.
What is surprising is that Mr Routhan raises this when in fact he was the CEO at the time.

Check the dom post for the rest.
Unless the moral improves the floggings will continue

Offline TS

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Re: Former Registrar on the front page of the Dominion Post today
« Reply #9 on: November 14, 2010, 04:29:57 PM »
There is some truth to Mr Routhan's comments I'm afraid. I've seen plenty of jobs done by Gasfitters which were then certified as compliant. Anyone ever read the booklets they produce about gas and electrical incidents?

Offline Jaxcat

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Re: Former Registrar on the front page of the Dominion Post today
« Reply #10 on: November 14, 2010, 05:08:52 PM »
Hi Mike
I think though that the incident Phil Routhan was referring to was all the shit that happened in Auckland with gas certs being sold by a certifying gasfitter who was signing them and selling them to all and sundry.  This incident was dealt with by the gas safety group and every job was visited and checked.  That is what Fiona Gavriel was talking about.  All the headlines in the paper did was frighten the crap out of people that there are heaps of gasfitters running around doing unsafe jobs which is just not the case.  Overall compared to the number of jobs completed the incidents are very, very low in this industry.


Offline robbo

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Re: Former Registrar on the front page of the Dominion Post today
« Reply #11 on: November 14, 2010, 07:23:33 PM »
hi guys/mike,i believe that all gas installations should be inspected by council inspectors, that would certainly take the heat off of gasfitters, but would the council want to take on the responsibly,cheers

Offline jd24hrs

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Re: Former Registrar on the front page of the Dominion Post today
« Reply #12 on: November 19, 2010, 01:23:39 PM »
Hi guys
I think gas fitters and engineers should be able to sign of there work but only the work they have done or have overseen whilst the work was being done and not from the office I used to sign of my work in the uk and in 16yrs never left a leak or dangerous situation
We need take the responsibilities to do the whole job and charge a fair but good rate for being the yresponsible person for which we would be paid well
we were the highest paid trade and so it should be here I used to earn at least 230 an hour and if the customer didn't like it I would walk but I just got busier because I had an air confidence that they liked  so be responseable and put your price up but do the job properly


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