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Author Topic: fact or fiction?  (Read 4068 times)

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Offline bowtieboy

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fact or fiction?
« on: May 11, 2014, 08:15:48 PM »
Evening all, recently I was at a training course where the dodgy certs that where floating around came up in discussion.
As I was told, a few years back someone was selling cert books and the board found out about it( I remember the board emailing everyone to find out who was selling cert books)..
Any way, the blokes I was chatting too said it was Routham the boards registrar at that time who was doing it !!
is this true?
This info came from a source that I believe to be very reliable

Linkback: https://www.plumbers.nz/gas-station/11/fact-or-fiction/1680/
I believe in doing a job once and right. !

Offline Badger

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Re: fact or fiction?
« Reply #1 on: May 11, 2014, 09:00:48 PM »
Philip Routhan, who was sacked from his role with the Plumbers, Gasfitters and Drainlayers Board last year, made the claim at an Employment Relations Authority meeting yesterday. Mr Routhan is before the authority fighting to get his job back.

He alleged he was asked to lie to Building and Construction Minister Maurice Williamson about safety problems at the request of board chairwoman Hazel Armstrong, which she denied.

Mr Routhan said he discovered a large number of gas certificates, which must be returned to the board by a certified gasfitter after work is done, were being returned with serious irregularities and were not being followed up.

According to his written evidence, in one case a gasfitter had requested 572 certificates, but an investigation showed only 290 were returned. Forty-four installations were found to have been put in by a person without a licence, with 33 determined to be "high risk".

Six months after becoming aware of the problem, Mr Routhan received a complaint about a gas explosion in a fish and chip shop in Nelson, where the roof had lifted and the front window and rear wall had been blown out. After investigations, more problems were discovered.

A third investigation into another gasfitter revealed 113 illegal installations.

Mr Routhan told the hearing he was making the information public because he was certain someone would be killed. "Somebody is going to die because of this, and I make this statement clearly in public today: somebody is going to get killed because of this."

Mr Routhan also claimed Ms Armstrong asked him not to tell Mr Williamson when he had briefed her about the problems. He said she knew what questions Mr Williamson was going to ask, one of which was when the board had known about the issue, and asked him "not to drop me in the sh*t".

Mr Routhan said he was uncomfortable with lying to a Crown minister, but Mr Williamson did not ask the question.

Ms Armstrong admitted making the request but said it was taken out of context. She said she had only been told in passing on the street and had not realised the seriousness of the situation. "It was not intended to mislead the minister or withhold accurate information from the minister."

The board fired Mr Routhan last year after he took more than 4000 documents from the board office. He said the papers included 761 gas certificates dating from 2005 that proved his claim.
You can't choose who you are.....but you are the sum of your choices.......

Offline Badger

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Re: fact or fiction?
« Reply #2 on: May 11, 2014, 09:02:29 PM »
this is what your probably on about............

But it is the one up North that is a pearler, selling signed certs.......and nothing happened to him.....must have connections!!!!

Offline Badger

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Re: fact or fiction?
« Reply #3 on: May 11, 2014, 09:07:18 PM »
what happened to the 760 odd certs that Routhan said proved it was dangerous.......what did they prove, how did they prove???????

Offline Badger

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Re: fact or fiction?
« Reply #4 on: May 11, 2014, 09:29:40 PM »
How about this one then....with 12 guests watching.....this guy below got off Scott free.....just months after an explosion

This is the one Bowtie, this is the one that needs looking at.....this guy didn't even get investigated, 5 months after the explosion.....I actually got lumped in with this guy....but he got connections I don't have.....



Last updated 08:52 19/09/2009
             
Police and safety authorities are investigating an alleged scam where illegal gas connections that could be lethal have been fitted in homes and businesses.

More than 570 blank safety certificates have been signed by a registered gasfitter over the past three years then sold on to unqualified tradesmen who carried out work in Auckland and Northland, The New Zealand Herald reported.

The alleged scam was uncovered when a homeowner last year noticed her gas certificate looked bogus and laid a complaint with the Plumbers, Gasfitters and Drainlayers Board, which then launched an inquiry and discovered the scale of the alleged offending.

The board audited more than 370 commercial premises and private homes and found more than 90 percent failed to meet compliance tests, with 16 found to be dangerous or unsafe.

Energy Safety, part of the Ministry of Economic Development, and the Department of Labour are also investigating the potentially explosive gas fittings. A complaint has also been laid with police.

Board spokesman John Debernardo said the work had the potential to create danger or pose a health and safety risk.

The internal investigation would be completed in a few weeks and a disciplinary hearing was likely for the gasfitter at the centre of the audit.

Criminal charges were also possible for the man signing the blank certificates and those who paid money for them.

The board is calling on the public to trace the unlicensed work.

Offline Badger

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Re: fact or fiction?
« Reply #5 on: May 11, 2014, 09:54:22 PM »
we are up to 15 guests watching, please leave a comment

Offline Badger

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Re: fact or fiction?
« Reply #6 on: May 11, 2014, 10:02:44 PM »
You 16 watching......any one with an atom of decency would find this number below, just after an explosion nearly killed some one, a total affront to the trade and would demand a public enquiry..........a quote from below

A third investigation into another gasfitter revealed 113 illegal installations.


WHAT THE f**** IS GOING ON HERE...............

Offline Rodza1

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Re: fact or fiction?
« Reply #7 on: May 12, 2014, 07:33:35 AM »
This needs to be sorted out. Thats my personal opinion. They can rant and rave all they want about safety but when the shit hit the fan they went after the wrong guy. Knowingly to i'd say. They just didnt want to prosecute people directly connected to the board. I wish I could of remembered to bring this up at the meeting Max Pederson attended. Why does the board stay idle? Stinks of corruption.

If I were on the board I would lay down the f**king law that no one is above it the law and investigate whole heartedly what actually happened and who is actually responsible. Now that would restore some god dam trust back into this industry. Look at that I just worked out how the board can gain some traction with the trades people. All they have to do is their job  ???
The Plumbers Gasfitters And Drainlayers Board- "White Collar Mafia"

Offline wombles

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Re: fact or fiction?
« Reply #8 on: May 12, 2014, 08:02:22 AM »
How do we actually know that no-one was prosecuted. According to the boards annual reports there are a lot of prosecutions, however, there are very few in the public domain.  Did these ones go unreported?

Offline Badger

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Re: fact or fiction?
« Reply #9 on: May 12, 2014, 05:17:46 PM »
I am pretty sure what happened (as are others).....but to be sure I have put in a OIA request for the action taken.......tell you all in 20 working days.


Offline Badger

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Re: fact or fiction?
« Reply #10 on: May 12, 2014, 05:25:36 PM »
From a news paper below

Police and safety authorities are investigating an alleged scam where illegal gas connections that could be lethal have been fitted in homes and businesses.

More than 570 blank safety certificates have been signed by a registered gasfitter over the past three years, then sold on to unqualified tradesmen who carried out work in Auckland and Northland.

The alleged scam was uncovered when a homeowner last year noticed her gas certificate looked bogus and laid a complaint with the Plumbers, Gasfitters and Drainlayers Board, which then launched an inquiry and discovered the scale of the alleged offending.

The board audited more than 370 commercial premises and private homes and found more than 90% failed to meet compliance tests, with 16 found to be dangerous or unsafe.

Energy Safety, part of the Ministry of Economic Development, and the Department of Labour are also investigating the potentially explosive gas fittings. A complaint has also been laid with police.

Board spokesman John Debernardo says the work has the potential to create danger or pose a health and safety risk.

The internal investigation will be completed in a few weeks and a disciplinary hearing is likely for the gasfitter at the centre of the audit.

Criminal charges are also possible for the man signing the blank certificates and those who paid money for them.

The board is refusing to say who is at the centre of this, but ONE News understands it is a man by the name of Richard Oldfield.

When approached by ONE News, he at first denied signing all of the permits himself, claiming someone has been forging his signature.

 
Discussing the permits, Oldfield says they come in books of 10.

"I sign the books. That's it, finished, as far as I'm concerned," he says. "But I always inspect the jobs."

Offline Badger

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Re: fact or fiction?
« Reply #11 on: May 12, 2014, 05:27:34 PM »
This happened just after the explosion, the Board sent letters to all the sites of my charges.....lumping me in with this........................I have never been to feckin Northland.



Offline bowtieboy

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Re: fact or fiction?
« Reply #12 on: May 12, 2014, 06:10:13 PM »
My new concern here Badger, is has Routham got MY certs???, look out if he has, he has stolen info he is not entitled too!
this is just not good enough, i will need to write my letter to max. >:(
wtf !

Offline Jaxcat

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Re: fact or fiction?
« Reply #13 on: May 12, 2014, 08:27:38 PM »
The gasfitter that was selling signed gas certificates was, I understand a 72 year old man, who has since (I also understand) handed in his ticket.  He was selling them off to a particular section of the population who were then filling them in.  I also understand that several of the people who filled them in were not properly licensed gasfitters.  From recollection I think some of the gas certificates were still blank and not filled in, and every one of the 290 odd that they found were visited and had various problems with them from minor to major.  I do not know who had to pay to rectify these problems, I suspect the members of the public who employed people who were probably cheap and did not check they were qualified.  I seriously doubt that the gasfitter visited the jobs, despite his claims.  From what I heard he didn't think there was any problem signing off blank certs to gain a few extra bucks. 

Routhan did remove files from the PGDB office.  I submitted an OIA on behalf of my staff asking if any files mentioning them were removed - and I was told by the Registrar that each member of my staff would need to submit and OIA and ask that question as they would not discuss someone else's information with me.  I did toy with the idea of writing 30 odd individual letters and then making the buggers write 30 odd replies back, but it seemed a bit pointless.

I am not sure if the files were recovered and what exactly went missing, but I would assume Mr Routhan had to return all the property as clearly it was not his.  If not then the Board have not taken due care of information that it is responsible for holding, and perhaps if anyone was charged with not certifying a job they could rightly claim that perhaps that particular certificate was taken by an ex Board staff member and not returned.  That would be a pickle.
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Offline Badger

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Re: fact or fiction?
« Reply #14 on: May 12, 2014, 08:39:00 PM »
So no prosecution at all Jax? even if....The board audited more than 370 commercial premises and private homes and found more than 90% failed to meet compliance tests, with 16 found to be dangerous or unsafe


And I got steamrollered at the same time?



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