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Offline Jaxcat

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architects, engineers and council
« on: October 29, 2012, 05:15:18 PM »
I think architects and engineers need to do MORE upskilling - the quality of their work has seriously declined over the year's.  Either they are getting lazier or dumber - take your pick.


Linkback: https://www.plumbers.nz/drainage/83/architects-engineers-and-council/1283/
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Offline bowtieboy

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Re: architects, engineers and council
« Reply #1 on: October 29, 2012, 07:20:30 PM »
haha, you are so right! architects have no idea what plumbing gasfitting or drainlaying is, thats why they put little writing in corners of their plans stating "all to be verified on site" or contractor to arrange with owner...or some other nonsense to cover their arses.
when was the last time any of you saw a plan that the plumbing was drawn correctly to the standards??? f.. n joke! >:(
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I believe in doing a job once and right. !

Offline Plumber

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Re: architects, engineers and council
« Reply #2 on: October 30, 2012, 10:20:18 AM »
I agree, all they do these days is copy/paste whats in "G13" when designing plans and applying for consents, I find more and more outdated and incorrect information on plans signed off by council its not funny!

What happens if the plumber follows an incorrect  instruction?

Something I have always been interested in is the council inspections that take place.

We have plumbing inspections for sign off. Is there any repercussion as far as council is concerned if the inspection was passed on non-compliant work? If not is there a point in spending tax payers money to do so?

Just recently one of my costumers spent 25K redoing a soakage system that didn't comply in any way it wasn't even installed as per the original engineers instruction on the plans. Installed 15 months ago it was signed off by council. This year the property flooded as a result.   

I suppose this experience answers some of the questions above but at what level do you start fixing the system?

>> Level one >>

The certifying drainlayer is now competent enough to ensure the installation is done correctly, safely and complies with the law.

Did it work? >> NO

>> Level Two >>

You employ a higher authority to look over the drainlayers shoulder to ensure the installation is done correctly, safely and complies with the law.

Did it work? >> NO

Why? Yes, the problem begins before level one.




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Offline integrated

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Re: architects, engineers and council
« Reply #3 on: October 30, 2012, 07:23:35 PM »
you raise some interesting points jax!


The councils are no longer liable for any work undertaken within their jurisdiction after the "leaky building scam" as far as I am aware

I have had similar thoughts regarding the system for a while

 - no license or quals required to design plumbing/hydraulic systems (should be certifying P/G/D minimum)

 - no local TA liability (so whats the point in inspection?) - random audit may be better as alternative

additionally - 

 - we pay through the nose to/for a board to govern the hell out of us licensed persons where majority of risk comes from unregistered/unlicensed persons (time to lump it with the health/building ministry and legal becomes puplic funded-since it is for their benefit - if you get done you pay for the lot - if found innocent you should have the right to counter for costs etc)

 - dont even get me started on the cpd crap - wheres the mandate for the requirement?!? (its non existent and lobbied by industry suppliers and associations for an additional revenue stream!!)

I foolishly laughed when a crane rep gloated that cpd WAS/IS going to happen, he was animated and quite adament - that was almost two years ago, I now think a deal had already been done...

I no longer laugh about it
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Offline integrated

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Re: architects, engineers and council
« Reply #4 on: October 30, 2012, 07:24:59 PM »
apologies - should not have gone off topic - mods feel free to delete or shift and make new thread if you feel the need...
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Offline bowtieboy

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Re: architects, engineers and council
« Reply #5 on: October 30, 2012, 07:36:05 PM »
imagine installing subfloor drainage as per the council approved and consented plans???? ...oh such another tui bill board!
i can not recall the last new house i layed the drains or sub floor as per plan....why you ask??
because they where wrong! a great example is a designer showing waste pipe running to a gully trap as part of a as3500 drainage plan, with a 225 ffl.what a joke. these guys get paid thousands of dollars and "TA"s stamp these plans knowing full well the plumber sort  the installation correctly....and why...because its not their neck on the line if it doesn't work, it ours!...that's why we do it correctly.so we can sleep at night. 8)
my favourite hate would have to be designers not allowing for soil stacks in their designs. >:(
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Offline Enn

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Re: architects, engineers and council
« Reply #6 on: October 30, 2012, 08:28:36 PM »
Not uncommon to see a blend of as/3500 G-12, No allowance for hose taps, T.V venting the stormwater drain, no allowance for soil stacks or sub floor 2end floor joists running the wrong way to allow for pipework .......

I could go on however nothing new i gather, just as well we know our onions eh.  ;)

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''Never have so many been fooled by so few''
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Offline bowtieboy

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Re: architects, engineers and council
« Reply #7 on: October 31, 2012, 08:18:50 PM »
now enn,
 that's right!!, we can and do so mix as3500 with g12 AND we are allowed too, its call a performance based standard...so why cant we apply this to nzs5261 or even nzs5601 ??? aye ! i believe they are and that was their writers intended. some where along the way, the pgdb employed some little Hitlers that think other wise.....WRONG!
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